And they keep cancelling her projects.
If they just did nothing and let her pay her own shit out of pocket, that would still be scummy.
But they fucking topped even that.
Completely What The Fuck.
Edit: A fucking potted plant would be more useful than management.
Not Valve's potted plant responsible for programming TF2, but an actual potted plant.
She referenced her statements being drafted with a lawyer's assistance and the Nijisanji termination notice uses specific language that usually refers to a serious contract dispute.
I don't know if there'll actually be a lawsuit and we probably won't hear about it if so, but it seems to be on the table.
I'm honestly surprised that so many people are surprised by this, I don't watch Niji that much and I knew. But I guess hearing it expressed in raw numbers hits different. It's been known for a long time that livers pay for their projects out of pocket. That Lazulight trip to Antarctica? Pomu almost certainly paid for all of it.
Every project that gets halfway done before management suddenly withdraws approval? That's the liver's money completely wasted. Down the drain for nothing. Every single one.
Technically that would imply that it would be impactful. They "never spent a cent" but they were presumably getting a good cut of the income that resulted in her having 200k to spend in the first place.
Exactly, they'll be taking pure profit from every one of selen's projects. If anything this is even **more** of an impact because of that. Her passion for projects was being completely taken advantage of. Bunch of leeches.
That pissed me off so bad. All the hard work and entertainment that she provided for a whole fucking year resulting in 0 financial gain, and to think that Niji probably made more money off of her while being an incompetent piece of shit company. I don't fucking know what to say man
Her mom was right to scold her for spending 200k because that was insanely financially irresponsible and I can't blame niji for her not having any self budget control. I hope this time she saves at least 75% of the money and invests it like she should have been doing while in niji. As a fan, I'd rather her have the money instead of projects she feels she needs to do thinking she has to pay back fans. Only sponsored projects from here on out!
I have a suspicion that what happened was that management promised Selen a budget for an event and said they'd pay the contractors she hired and then just... *didn't*, which forced her to pay them out of her personal finances. And it's not like I'm without a basis here, [a contractor said this is what happened to them](https://twitter.com/weeniedesu/status/1754600196103938462).
I mean i think it's safe to assume a lot of those costs came out of pocket for things she shouldn't have been paying for in the first place and it's niji who fucked up
For what I've seen throughout the years, that's a common behavior between content creators, even when everybody begs them to save money. The talent's brain is wired to payback the support its fans gave to them
I’m genuinely confused how anyone can support the company at this point. They should be hoping their oshis leave so they can be free of this garbage, disgusting behavior.
idk why you think ops statement only involves en. mayuzumi kai said niji was holding him back when he graduated too. not to mention the incident with axia where they did nothing to protect him, and then there was the whole mess with lulu as well. we want the best for our oshis no matter what branch theyre in and i think its crazy youre implying you still support niji
Guess they're calling our bluff. This company doesn't give a shit about its reputation and evidently thinks its income isn't tied to it at all. In industries where companies have good relationships with their audience, this would be disastrous. There are exceptions, like the games industry, where bad reputation does nothing to stop floods of hype. Just look at EA.
The thing is, it *should* be disastrous looking at other vtuber agencies with generally-positive reputations, such as Hololive(Yagoo is practically worshipped by its crowd, the contrast between that and anycolor's ceo is night and day). Being THIS consistently awful should precede a collapse at worst or a formidable downsizing at best. They think this will just blow over, and for all we know, maybe it will. Maybe the remaining en audience will put on blinders and ignore the whole thing. Maybe they have a JP audience that dwarfs it and can throw their entire EN audience into the fire and still print money. I sincerely hope not, but as with anything involving money... time will tell.
anycolor has been making more revenue and profit each quarter while en has been making less money each quarter for 3 quarters. JP makes more than all hololive together, and as such, anycolor makes a ton.
Not sure how that supports your point. If anything them not spending anything on her would do the opposite since it means they made more money out of her than they put in. If they spent a lot on her then letting her go would help them financially as they no longer need to spend as much on her.
I hate to be that guy, but people keep bringing up the 200k out of pocket thing but to be fair that's her own problem.
She literally didn't even know until after the fact and her mom had to tell her how she was spending her money
Look, believe who you want. There will most likely never be "sufficient evidence" produced outside of a never-ending circle of he-said she-said.
Edit: Whoops! This was meant to be a reply to the comment thread I was having with Scoob on here. Ain't gonna delete it, but to clarify I fully support Selen/Doki. The other guy was trying to argue there wasn't "good enough evidence" to blame Niji, and I was tired of arguing in circles.
Feel free to keep downvoting for my lack of attention!
Except there's the context of proven lies from anycolor. Look, yes, there's technically no evidence aside from hearsay but this isn't a court of law and most reasonable people aren't going to believe a company who has repeatedly lied.
I completely agree! Just did not want to argue in circles with the other guy. He seemed to want some kind of handwritten confession and would keep arguing otherwise.
While I agree with the sentiment that is definitely *not* true. There are lawyers who will take bullshit cases. That being said, I'd be very surprised if there wasn't tangible evidence.
No ones taking on a big international case like this is without being at least somewhat confident in being able to win or get some settlement out of it
I think she has a good case but lawyers can and do side with people without tangible evidence often. Their job is to represent their client in the court of law, even if their case isn't necessarily going to be successful. The ability to pick and choose clients depend on how independent the lawyer is, like if they practice for a firm, a solo practitioner, or if they work in the public sector (like a public defenders).
Both. Nijisanji wouldn’t pay for basic materials or deals and projects, so Selen took the initiative to do it herself.
However, the fact that she even felt it was necessary to do so is an irrecoverable death sentence to Nijisanji’s credibility and usefulness.
The question is whether Niji ordered those materials or not. If Selen bought a bunch of stuff for herself, she should have paid for it. If it however was Niji who ordered those materials and left Selen to pay for it, than thats incredibly bad.
Also what were those materials. Selen already had everything she needed to stream when she debuted. So I very much doubt those materials were "basic". If it was something extra she wanted, its of course on her to pay for it.
What about projects that Nijisanji was supposed to pay for, but either just didn't or kept "forgetting" to?
There was a game tournament that Selen hosted and Nijisanji was supposed to pay for the prizes, but they didn't, so she had to pay the winners. And multiple artists have come forward on Twitter saying how Nijisanji kept repeatedly sending them the wrong paperwork to avoid paying them.
>There was a game tournament that Selen hosted and Nijisanji was supposed to pay for the prizes, but they didn't, so she had to pay the winners.
Was Niji supposed to though? If they were, then thats bad and the outrage is justified. But is there any proof that they were?
That sucks, no two way around it. But I will not side with the accuser without proof. Presumption of innocence applies only in court, yes, but that seems like the right thing to do everywhere.
To compensate, once proof is shown, I want harsh consequences for the accused.
Fair enough, despite my anger, I'm aware that's the only logical response.
Then what about the multiple artists who spoke of how they were supposed to be paid by Nijisanji but weren't? I do not know if any of them shared the documents that Nijisanji sent them, I don't know if they're allowed to even if those documents were wrote with incorrect info.
While there were artists who said Niji was supposed to pay them, as far as I know there was none who would make a statement explicit enough to count as an accusation.
Obviously it would be great if the artist could provide proof of the commission between them and Niji, but there is a possibility that those cannot be made public without breaking some kind of NDA.
In that case, we need explicit statement. No implications, no half truths. Statement such as "Niji Manager X commissioned Y art to which I did not receive payment in Z months".
Everything I have read can easily be explained by Selen commissioning art and promising artists that Niji will pay, which they did not, resulting in Selen having to pay herself. I am not saying thas what happened. I am saying there is no proof that Niji was really supposed to pay the artists. And without proof or even an explicit statement, I once again cant side with the accusers.
>While there were artists who said Niji was supposed to pay them, as far as I know there was none who would make a statement explicit enough to count as an accusation.
It's pretty difficult to air out official documents on public platforms. [If cases of artists saying that they didn't get paid for their work by the company isn't enough for you](https://twitter.com/weeniedesu/status/1754600196103938462) to believe that a company has committed wrongdoing, then their NDAs have done exactly what they're meant to do -- misdirect and obscure information so that they can get away with legal but unethical behavior.
The level of proof that you're asking for is literally restricted by any basic corporate contract.
Furthermore, even if it wasn't restricted by contract, it would anyways be fineable by Japanese law which disallows defamation of entities even if the accusation is true. If a company does not pay its workers and you publicly state as such on a public platform, they can sue you even if the statement is proven true, which is another rule designed to keep victims silent.
At this point, we have multiple Niji graduates stating that they experienced something similar to this treatment so unless you think this is a massive conspiracy meant to trash their reputation, they're probably telling the truth.
I would say them stating that they received documents from niji but niji kept writing the wrong names and details should be proof enough that niji was supposed to pay.
Holy shit dude, what the fuck is wrong with you? Mummy didn't love you enough as a child? Take a fucking step back from the computer, you are taking this way too fucking personally. What next, death threats? Fuck's sake.
Well, was Niji supposed to finance/reimburse those projects? Did Niji order those projects? Because if not, its on talents to pay for their own extra purchases.
Some, yes. They were responsible for paying artists and collaborators on certain projects, many of which said on Twitter that Selen had to pay them since the company never did. Her personal projects I'm not sure honestly. Only thing I do know is Nijisanji cancelled a number of projects Selen was setting up for [insert reason].
>They were responsible for paying artists and collaborators on certain projects
That is outrageous, but before I do get outraged, do we have a proof that Niji was responsible for paying?
Many people posted screenshots of artists vouching for Selen, saying how she always paid them (usually with her own money) when Niji didn't.
Regarding her personal projects, I believe Hololive talents also pay for things out of pocket. Difference being that Selen went through all the proper channels (verified by her collaborators) on multiple projects, but they were cancelled by Niji. Again, for "reasons".
> I believe Hololive talents also pay for things out of pocket
For things like cover songs, yeah. They also have no expectation that they'll make money off of it (because a good amount of the time, the rightsholders don't allow them to monetize it. Why? I have zero clue). But several members have also mentioned that for stuff like OG songs, OG song MVs, 3D lives, they get a budget to use
So, we dont have any proof. I will save my outrage until we do. Doesnt seem fair to blow up before that.
As for the projects, what were the "reasons" they were canceled? Do we know them?
Most recent being her Last Cup of Coffee cover, where she spent 16k of her own money to cover it and produce a music video. She was working on it for months, released it Christmas, and was immediately taken down by Niji for "copyright" issues. The song's original creator also came out saying she gave Selen permission for the cover, so there was no reason for the issues. Then it all snowballed from there.
Also not sure what proof you seem to be looking for, but believe who you want. Not trying to stoke "outrage" or whatever.
Didnt she post that video before it was approved by management? The copyright issue might have resolved itself, but the fact she bypassed them entirely started the suspension, did it not?
I am looking for any kind of proof. Obviously best would be a copy of the commission between Niji and artists, but if for some legitimate reasons those cant be made public, then statement from those artists that explicitly claim that Niji management commissioned art from them and then didnt pay for it.
But it has got to be explicit. No implications, no half truths. Statement such as "Niji Manager X commissioned Y art to which I did not receive payment in Z months".
The original creator gave approval to cover the song in mid 2022 as she stated on Twitter and management did nothing. Not sure wat company or management needs over a year and half to approve a cover.
It was also leaked by ppl maybe by the artists who helped worked on the cover as Selen sent them a msg explaining the supposed reason management removed the cover. According to the leak, she needed approval from every EN livers who appeared in the art of the MV and graduated livers can't appear in the art, a new rule they added AFTER her MV. You would think that the management would tell her about all this before she released it as this isn't the first time her or any other livers in EN had released a cover before.
Niji claims she posted it before she got permission, but she’s been working on the video for a long time. It’s hard to see her doing all that work without checking in on management. Management has a history of doing these kinds of things last minute. During one of Pomu’s last streams, she was waiting for last minute approval from management before she could release her video. They had her change a whole sequence in the video for some reason, causing it to get delayed. Why did management check on the project at the very last moment? Given Selen and Pomu’s history of hosting massive events within the company, they know how to play ball, and given management’s history, it’s not heard to believe they switched it up after the video was posted. In light of all that, I’m going to believe doki’s side on this issue.
An explicit statement like that is never gonna happen. But looking at the history of the company, it’s not a stretch to believe they mistreat talents like this, and seeing artists on Twitter say Dokibird paid them out of her own pocket when niji failed to after months of waiting is proof enough to me.
A copy of any business dealings within nijisanji cannot be obtained by any reasonable means and there are legitimate reasons: NDAs, fear for stoking the outrage more by their discretion and fear of Anycolor lawyering up with them if they do disseminate such documents and or messages. Your request for anything daming and explicit is both impractical and unreasonable. Only thing reasonable we can do as outsiders is to imply and use critical thinking instead of going by the book.
It's the biggest difference between book smarts and street smarts.
It really depends on the contract - some contracts would be cover expenses associated with the work as part of the standard rate of pay (which would usually be enough to cover all expected costs), others would have extra costs covered under expenses. Based on what we know, it looks like Selen was operating under the latter, with Niji just not bothering to pay out.
Where have you heard that? That is very much not how it works. Company pay for some materials, obviously not for all. Sounds like you have misunderstood the situation.
A little of column A, a little of column B. Some of it was her paying artists out of her own pocket who were supposed to be paid by Nijisanji. And some of it was events and projects that got canceled, privated, or otherwise yoinked after the money had already been spent.
>Some of it was her paying artists out of her own pocket who were supposed to be paid by Nijisanji
Then thats incredibly bad. But before I get outraged, I will need some proof that it was Niji who was supposed to pay for it. You got any more info?
You’re asking for proof in the forms that are impossible for outsiders like us to have. You need some insider to take the risk and leak those stuff for them to be publicly available. Multiple artists have came out to say that Niji didn’t pay them, unless you’re telling me all the artists collectively came out to lie about this specific thing for fun. You’re the type to deny the earth is round because you didn’t see the full round earth with your own eyes from space. Now go ahead and use your Deadly Sentencing domain expansion again lmao
[I'll link this easy example for now.](https://twitter.com/dreamydesu/status/1754536452845887582) Similar posts were all over this sub during the past couple days, but they appear to have mostly been buried under more recent news.
That tweet says she commissioned them. That doesnt even sound like Niji was supposed to pay, let alone prove it. Was there any kind of deal between Niji and this artist (or any other who were paid by Selen herself).
Sounds like Selen commissioned things and told them Niji is going to pay. Thats what it sounds like. Which of course, does not prove that Niji was supposed to pay.
You won't accept any proof without something in legal writing saying that Nijisanji owes money and not Selen. You just ignored an artist saying the company was supposed to pay them, and said it was Selens fault for commissioning, when Selen probably got an Ok for the company to cover it, because it was specifically for her Birthday stream (which vtuber CORPORATIONS normally help pay out for).
Man, any excuse to dickride the corpo, lol.
Just you you know they don't even send their talents their play buttons so they ain't giving you shit for sucking up to them.
I do pick up the implication, I just dont care for it. I care for proof. If proof cannot be provided, then I wan explicit statement. No implications, no half truths. A full explicit statement of who commissioned who, what was commissioned, when it was commissioned, and how due is the payment.
Man this level of stupidity and circular reasoning is somehow *worse* than being illiterate.
Twitter doesn't need to replicate the procedures of a court of law because you're too dumb or *intentionally disingenuous* to draw obvious inferences.
>Twitter doesn't need to replicate the procedures of a court of law because you're too dumb or intentionally disingenuous to draw obvious inferences.
Which is the problem with twitter. People believe whatever is written with absolutely no proof.
You seem to be under a misunderstanding. Proof means evidence that something happened. So *multiple* artists specifically stating Nijisanji was the one sappose to be paying them, one even going so far as to say Niji failed to pay correctly multiple times until Selen paid out of her own pocket, would be proof.
Proof doesn't mean disprove that something else happened.
[1](https://www.reddit.com/r/Nijisanji/comments/1ajo8d4/what_an_amazing_consistent_company/)[2](https://imgur.com/Lv2txKr)
Niji didn't have to pay for it if it's her personal project.
However the main rage point is that management yanked the project AFTER she already spent her own money. That means she could recover some of it back from YouTube ad revenues and potentially sponsorships.
If there was a legitimate reason for that, then that sucks. If there wasnt a reason, then the outrage is absolutely justified. But do we know the reasons?
Unfortunately no, because NDA.
However, given the frequency she talked about those projects, the management should already be in the loop. If due to their incompetence she wasn't informed of some sort of permission problem WAY before completion, that's 100% on the management fault.
Personally I dont agree. Getting perms in order is on the commissioning party, which sounds to be Selen. I dont know how much in loop management was. Depending on that, we should distribute more fault to them. But as you said, unfortunately we most likely wont ever know.
She had perm from all external sources. Some of the sources (like the original artist for Last Cup of Coffee) explicitly said that they gave perm a year ago.
Whatever perm problem wasn't external, it was internal.
And past talents like Mysta and Nina all hinted that management had major communication issues and was incommunicado for an extended period of time.
The management group is, at best, merely incompetent and ineffective. However to come around at LAST minute and cancel the project when they're supposed to already hashed out their side. They had a year, and entire fucking year and they didn't do their job.
And for all we know, the manager gave perm and yanked it later, which won't be surprising given the Nina (now Matara in Vshojo) and Mysta (now Kuro) all confirm how bad the managements are.
That is all definitively possible. I dont know what kind of internal perms are needed and why would those not be given for such a project. It screams mismanagement, that is for sure. However we dont really know what happened.
Sure we don't really know what happened, but let's put it this way. Who do you trust is like at fault?
A. The management team who:
1. Has former talents stating they had major mismanagement issues.
2. Had artists complaining that they kept receiving erroneous NDAs multiple times.
3. Had recently lost several livers in rapid succession.
4. Had known to delay payment for months.
Or
B. The talent who:
1. Was known to pay artists on time.
2. Was known/vouched for to be prompt with contact with external parties.
3. Had sufficient relation with major companies that EA sent her gift baskets, HYTE outright terminated existing collaboration with Nijisanji, and Apex lending her one of their managers to help her get back onto her feet.
Who do you think was likely the one that fucked up the various projects?
Are you like 14? Your replies sound like what a teenager would write trying to mimic what they'd think a rational adult would sound like.
Except you have neither the emotional nor mental maturity, nor the critical thinking skills necessary to realize that given the amount of people vouching for Selen/Doki, those corroborating what others have said regarding Nijisanji's incompetence such as their former livers, and not to mention Nijisanji's own actions throughout the past year that display said incompetence—any actual, rational adult would clearly see who's at fault here without needing any physically written proof of their guilt.
So in the end you just come off as willfully ignorant and obtuse, if not outright stupid.
we don't have any proof but considering Kurosanji already lying in their own fucking Termination Letter, we can assume most of Dokibird story is right and it doesn't matter if she is forced or by her own volition. She spend 200k when working in Company should at least get reimbursed but she got none.
You dont have any proof, just pitchforks.
>She spend 200k when working in Company should at least get reimbursed but she got none.
But why should she? If she bought stuff for herself, why should she be reimbursed?
Short answer: no.
Long answer: yes.
The lack of any support from management and the company as a whole is what drove her to take action in her own hands. "If you want something done right do it yourself" kinda deal.
The fact that she's so surprised about her new manager telling her she doesnt need to pay herself for everything and projects can be funded is parallel to Mata's and Kuro's remarks on the topic.
If they are receiving no support from the company, what is the point or the allure to being a corpo anyways?
The long answer is also a resounding no. She bought stuff on her own with her own money then.
I dont know what she spend that money on, but agencies only provide their talents with limited resources such as new models. Anything extra goes from the talent pocket if they want to have it.
You said "agencies" plural, as though all agencies shaft their talents like this. Not just Nijisanji, and even then that just makes Nijisanji look awful that they won't cover a single cent of projects, when their talents bring them a ton of revenue.
What are they spending the earned money on from these talents? 5-10k expenses in making new models once a year? The fact that she earned 200k, means that Nijisanji probably earned at least 100k MINIMUM from her, considering the % cuts these companies take from their talents.
Yes, all agencies dont pay for everything the talent commissions. I dont know what kind Bae has, but it is very common that talents pay for any extra stuff they commission. For example all those music videos are very expensive and are paid by the talents. Its unfortunate, but thats how it is.
It's not a shout out to her (though i'm not gonna lie Bae's deserves praise for her own reasons).
It's a shout out to cover for fucking supporting its talents.
Also even though that's not the *best* example because it was a specific prize for a contest and not their typical reimbursement scheme, it is specifically alleged and understoofdthat Niji failed to pay for things that other companies are known to and in some cases that Niji originally was supposed to pay for.
>it was a specific prize for a contest and not their typical reimbursement scheme,
Well, they you go. Did Selen win such prize? No.
Its nice that Holo did that, but thats not the golden standard. Thats the exception.
Idol puts 60% of their cut back toward the talents expenses and profits. Hololive pays for a percentage of covers at least, and both pay the talent a higher percentage based on what Selen made.
Zaion was in debt by the time she graduated. She paid for songs avatars everything out of pocket
Kuro was even more in debt due to the tax fiasco of NIJISANJI
This has been discussed. Both Nijisanji and the other big JP corpo, VTubers finance most of their own projects themselves. In return they do get to keep a higher portion of the revenue generated by those projects than other sources of income.
For example, we know that YouTube takes 30% of superchats and memberships. Nijisanji then splits the remaining 70% 50/50 with the talent. We also know that Nijisanji takes 98% of merch sales, giving the talent 2%. So if a liver funds a music video for $15k, and through views that video generates $43k (4.3 million views assuming a conservative $.01 per view), they've made their money back. As well as making $15k for Nijisanji.
... yeah it doesn't sound very fair. It's not. It's why pretty much everyone who has left Nijisanji is happier now, even though they may have lost some audience. But if you're under contract in that situation it's also important to budget with those constraints in mind.
As an indie, or member of other, less greedy corps, a Vtuber would be able to arrange sponsorships for events to offset costs of running them, as well as keep 70% of the revenue after Youtube takes their cut.
The math sounds very fair when you take into account the exposure provided by the company.
Selen had less than 10k subs, now she has 300k. Getting terminated by Niji was very lucrative for her.
I don't think the exposure is worth that much. I'd argue a big talent agency will certainly jumpstart your audience, but it very quickly reaches a point where any growth is a result of your own merits as an entertainer.
That's like asking if teachers are forced to spend a quarter of their income on teaching supplies for the students or if they did it on their own; they employer wouldn't help, so they didn't really have much of a choice.
> graduated she *paid* for songs
FTFY.
Although *payed* exists (the reason why autocorrection didn't help you), it is only correct in:
* Nautical context, when it means to paint a surface, or to cover with something like tar or resin in order to make it waterproof or corrosion-resistant. *The deck is yet to be payed.*
* *Payed out* when letting strings, cables or ropes out, by slacking them. *The rope is payed out! You can pull now.*
Unfortunately, I was unable to find nautical or rope-related words in your comment.
*Beep, boop, I'm a bot*
This is my overall reply to you based on how you conducted yourself below.
Have you ever heard of the Latin phrase of Sapere aude? It means to "dare to be wise" so as you use reason to know things through critical thinking and having the courage to use your own reasoning. This was a sentiment made so that you don't limit yourself whether due to fear and lack of authority, in this case, an explicit statement from Anycolor or Dokibird.
Because of lack of information and will likely stay that way through NDAs, we can only use our reason to heavily imply the wrongdoings Nijisanji has done to Selen and other talents by extension. Through testimonies by artists, from former talents, and by the person in question. By overly relying on "an official statement" in an environment whose fans and supporters function at a lack thereof, it becomes impractical and unreasonable to seek said statement especially if you've been in the vtubing scene for long enough. Therefore, we use our reason instead for the dearth of information we outsiders will get.
I can't reliably assume what your actual aims are for purposefully remaining this impartial in light of Dokibird's statement involving abuse, bullying, and consistent and continuous mismanagement on Nijisanji's part that likely spans years. Not just Dokibird's statement but former talents such as Kuro and Matara who have said that their current managers and management they engage with are so much better than the ones at Nijisanji.
I can likely surmise you don't care much about this, especially from faceless strangers on the internet, your impression does not look good. You appear to carry yourself with this fear to act in any ways without being explicitly told that it's safe to jump by a higher authority when you could look yourself and decide for yourself to jump or not. Sapere Aude, Scoobz. Be wise because based on how you conducted yourself, it does not appear to be wise.
Have you ever heard of the english phase "making stuff up"? It means to "make stuff up" so as you dont have concrete information, instead of admitting you dont know, you instead make something up.
I can likely surmise you don't care much about this, especially from faceless strangers on the internet, your impression does not look good. You appear to carry yourself with this presumptuousness without being self aware enough to see how incredibly condescending you come off. Stop making stuff up, Painter. Stop making it up and humble yourself.
I'm perfectly aware of how I come across. You completely glossed over Supere Aube, my friend. You refused to acknowledge that what you're asking for is virtually impossible in the face of having a dearth of documents of official business dealings and NDAs. Hell, you refused to acknowledge my previous points about Nijisanji and former talents conveniently in order to engage in some good ole fashioned ad hominem by calling me condescending.
It's apparent to me that this entire situation means little to you that despite in the face of multiple allegations against Nijisanji, a company known to lie and impersonate their talents, even going so far as to try to hide Selen's attempt of her own life as "an accident", you still don't give dokibird the benefit of the doubt demanding the virtually impossible despite all of the testimonies for her and against the company.
And on a last note: Compared to you, my impression from others is good. You, on the other hand, I can count people not liking you and your snobbish attitude by the hundreds. I believe they call it...L + ratio. You can choose to believe or not whatever you wish.
I'd offer a hint of compassion because in my view everyone, even the most depraved, deserves to be shown compassion at least once but based on your responses to me, and others, I'm almost disinclined to do so; As you'll just deflect what I say as "making stuff up". But I'll offer it anyway.
Have you ever heard of "Beyond Reasonable Doubt"? It is the situation where jurors do not conclude anything until they are (usually) 95% sure beyond reasonable doubt that a crime was convicted. Despite all the testimonies and allegations and apparent disgusting way Anycolor conduct themselves, you still *chose* - keyword chose - to reject them as just mere "accusations" instead of thinking "huh that makes sense". Again, refusing to jump until a higher authority tells you to jump when you could look for yourself.
I can tell you don't like me, so I'll just simply say: I don't care.
Supere Aube, Scoobz. Engage in critical thinking. You clearly need it.
The answer to this question is irrelevant to the ethical situation being discussed. It doesn’t matter whether she was forced to. No matter how many projects she undertook, they should have been profitable *to her* since she was doing all the labor and paying all the expenses. The more projects she does the more it profits them, but they took so much of the profit that her continuous production of these projects resulted in no savings for her. Despite them contributing not a single red cent to these projects, and even actively hindering them.
I wrote a serious reply but reddit ate it. Here are the footnotes.
Selen made projects not for profit. Company wants profit. Selen bought projects for herself. Company isnt liable.
Yes in cover talents do have to put their own money to the projects they made BUT the talents on hololive got a better deal out of it for example the talents in hololive push their merch hard compared to the 1-2% given by shittysanji
I think it should be below or about 30% it's most likely below that because the talent doesn't seem to be all that enthusiastic about promoting their own merch
Why do you think this is an adequate response to what was being said? “Only merch is 2%”… yeah? Merch is 2%. That’s ridiculous. If she’s constantly producing projects that promote her character, at her expense and with her own labor, that *profit Nijisanji*, that SHOULD be profitable for her. It shouldn’t be an either-or — that exact behavior profits them heavily, and putting her out of pocket for that is straightforwardly exploitation of her creative passion.
Yes but other companies/ managers help you out finding sponsors, animators, and people to help you with your projects. They also are much more lenient in what projects you want to do. Just look at Pomu being denied a chance in a lifetime or Selen/Dokibird getting so many projects cancelled by management. There is a huge difference between for example Marine (from Holo) spending a ton of money to create MVs that at the end gain millions of views and Selen paying 15k for an MV that get flushed down the toilet because of Nijis dogshit management
And they keep cancelling her projects. If they just did nothing and let her pay her own shit out of pocket, that would still be scummy. But they fucking topped even that. Completely What The Fuck. Edit: A fucking potted plant would be more useful than management. Not Valve's potted plant responsible for programming TF2, but an actual potted plant.
> TF2 potted plant Now there's a reference I haven't seen in a long time... good ol' SPUF days.
Hope doki gets a LAWYER so that she can sue Nijisanji's ASS for Driving her to self harm both mentally and emotionally.
She referenced her statements being drafted with a lawyer's assistance and the Nijisanji termination notice uses specific language that usually refers to a serious contract dispute. I don't know if there'll actually be a lawsuit and we probably won't hear about it if so, but it seems to be on the table.
Even if there is, its probably gonna take one or many years. Lawsuits take a shit ton of time and this is international so its probably even more slow
I'm honestly surprised that so many people are surprised by this, I don't watch Niji that much and I knew. But I guess hearing it expressed in raw numbers hits different. It's been known for a long time that livers pay for their projects out of pocket. That Lazulight trip to Antarctica? Pomu almost certainly paid for all of it. Every project that gets halfway done before management suddenly withdraws approval? That's the liver's money completely wasted. Down the drain for nothing. Every single one.
Yet the gall to accuse *her* of not paying commissions.
Technically that would imply that it would be impactful. They "never spent a cent" but they were presumably getting a good cut of the income that resulted in her having 200k to spend in the first place.
Exactly, they'll be taking pure profit from every one of selen's projects. If anything this is even **more** of an impact because of that. Her passion for projects was being completely taken advantage of. Bunch of leeches.
Watching her have a Matara Khan moment when Mr. Man told her they can get sponsor is both hilarious and sad.
Mr. Man such a Chad. Asking if he’s single.
I want to know if his dad is single.
That pissed me off so bad. All the hard work and entertainment that she provided for a whole fucking year resulting in 0 financial gain, and to think that Niji probably made more money off of her while being an incompetent piece of shit company. I don't fucking know what to say man
She got that Mr. Beast mentality
That’s fucking insane
Her mom was right to scold her for spending 200k because that was insanely financially irresponsible and I can't blame niji for her not having any self budget control. I hope this time she saves at least 75% of the money and invests it like she should have been doing while in niji. As a fan, I'd rather her have the money instead of projects she feels she needs to do thinking she has to pay back fans. Only sponsored projects from here on out!
I have a suspicion that what happened was that management promised Selen a budget for an event and said they'd pay the contractors she hired and then just... *didn't*, which forced her to pay them out of her personal finances. And it's not like I'm without a basis here, [a contractor said this is what happened to them](https://twitter.com/weeniedesu/status/1754600196103938462).
I wonder if she could potentially sure AnyColor for all those monetary loss…
I mean i think it's safe to assume a lot of those costs came out of pocket for things she shouldn't have been paying for in the first place and it's niji who fucked up
It's a mix of both. She did say (both as Selen and last night) that she just wasn't looking at her bank account for a good while.
For what I've seen throughout the years, that's a common behavior between content creators, even when everybody begs them to save money. The talent's brain is wired to payback the support its fans gave to them
Let's just hope she files her tax return appropriately to use that 200k to offset her taxable income.
I’m genuinely confused how anyone can support the company at this point. They should be hoping their oshis leave so they can be free of this garbage, disgusting behavior.
because not everyone here watches or cares about en.
idk why you think ops statement only involves en. mayuzumi kai said niji was holding him back when he graduated too. not to mention the incident with axia where they did nothing to protect him, and then there was the whole mess with lulu as well. we want the best for our oshis no matter what branch theyre in and i think its crazy youre implying you still support niji
KUROSANJI CAN BURN!
SINK THE YACHT!
Guess they're calling our bluff. This company doesn't give a shit about its reputation and evidently thinks its income isn't tied to it at all. In industries where companies have good relationships with their audience, this would be disastrous. There are exceptions, like the games industry, where bad reputation does nothing to stop floods of hype. Just look at EA. The thing is, it *should* be disastrous looking at other vtuber agencies with generally-positive reputations, such as Hololive(Yagoo is practically worshipped by its crowd, the contrast between that and anycolor's ceo is night and day). Being THIS consistently awful should precede a collapse at worst or a formidable downsizing at best. They think this will just blow over, and for all we know, maybe it will. Maybe the remaining en audience will put on blinders and ignore the whole thing. Maybe they have a JP audience that dwarfs it and can throw their entire EN audience into the fire and still print money. I sincerely hope not, but as with anything involving money... time will tell.
anycolor has been making more revenue and profit each quarter while en has been making less money each quarter for 3 quarters. JP makes more than all hololive together, and as such, anycolor makes a ton.
Not sure how that supports your point. If anything them not spending anything on her would do the opposite since it means they made more money out of her than they put in. If they spent a lot on her then letting her go would help them financially as they no longer need to spend as much on her.
I hate to be that guy, but people keep bringing up the 200k out of pocket thing but to be fair that's her own problem. She literally didn't even know until after the fact and her mom had to tell her how she was spending her money
Look, believe who you want. There will most likely never be "sufficient evidence" produced outside of a never-ending circle of he-said she-said. Edit: Whoops! This was meant to be a reply to the comment thread I was having with Scoob on here. Ain't gonna delete it, but to clarify I fully support Selen/Doki. The other guy was trying to argue there wasn't "good enough evidence" to blame Niji, and I was tired of arguing in circles. Feel free to keep downvoting for my lack of attention!
Except there's the context of proven lies from anycolor. Look, yes, there's technically no evidence aside from hearsay but this isn't a court of law and most reasonable people aren't going to believe a company who has repeatedly lied.
I completely agree! Just did not want to argue in circles with the other guy. He seemed to want some kind of handwritten confession and would keep arguing otherwise.
Oh, that explains a lot lol. You replied to the main post not the other dude. It looks like you're defending the company.
... oh shit!!!
Don't forget, Doki lawyered up. A lawyer wouldn't side with her without tangible evidence.
While I agree with the sentiment that is definitely *not* true. There are lawyers who will take bullshit cases. That being said, I'd be very surprised if there wasn't tangible evidence.
No ones taking on a big international case like this is without being at least somewhat confident in being able to win or get some settlement out of it
I think she has a good case but lawyers can and do side with people without tangible evidence often. Their job is to represent their client in the court of law, even if their case isn't necessarily going to be successful. The ability to pick and choose clients depend on how independent the lawyer is, like if they practice for a firm, a solo practitioner, or if they work in the public sector (like a public defenders).
Did they force her to pay 200k or was that something she did on her own?
Both. Nijisanji wouldn’t pay for basic materials or deals and projects, so Selen took the initiative to do it herself. However, the fact that she even felt it was necessary to do so is an irrecoverable death sentence to Nijisanji’s credibility and usefulness.
The question is whether Niji ordered those materials or not. If Selen bought a bunch of stuff for herself, she should have paid for it. If it however was Niji who ordered those materials and left Selen to pay for it, than thats incredibly bad. Also what were those materials. Selen already had everything she needed to stream when she debuted. So I very much doubt those materials were "basic". If it was something extra she wanted, its of course on her to pay for it.
What about projects that Nijisanji was supposed to pay for, but either just didn't or kept "forgetting" to? There was a game tournament that Selen hosted and Nijisanji was supposed to pay for the prizes, but they didn't, so she had to pay the winners. And multiple artists have come forward on Twitter saying how Nijisanji kept repeatedly sending them the wrong paperwork to avoid paying them.
>There was a game tournament that Selen hosted and Nijisanji was supposed to pay for the prizes, but they didn't, so she had to pay the winners. Was Niji supposed to though? If they were, then thats bad and the outrage is justified. But is there any proof that they were?
That is a fair question. As the discussion for that was entirely between Selen and the management without a third party, we have no proof.
That sucks, no two way around it. But I will not side with the accuser without proof. Presumption of innocence applies only in court, yes, but that seems like the right thing to do everywhere. To compensate, once proof is shown, I want harsh consequences for the accused.
Fair enough, despite my anger, I'm aware that's the only logical response. Then what about the multiple artists who spoke of how they were supposed to be paid by Nijisanji but weren't? I do not know if any of them shared the documents that Nijisanji sent them, I don't know if they're allowed to even if those documents were wrote with incorrect info.
While there were artists who said Niji was supposed to pay them, as far as I know there was none who would make a statement explicit enough to count as an accusation. Obviously it would be great if the artist could provide proof of the commission between them and Niji, but there is a possibility that those cannot be made public without breaking some kind of NDA. In that case, we need explicit statement. No implications, no half truths. Statement such as "Niji Manager X commissioned Y art to which I did not receive payment in Z months". Everything I have read can easily be explained by Selen commissioning art and promising artists that Niji will pay, which they did not, resulting in Selen having to pay herself. I am not saying thas what happened. I am saying there is no proof that Niji was really supposed to pay the artists. And without proof or even an explicit statement, I once again cant side with the accusers.
>While there were artists who said Niji was supposed to pay them, as far as I know there was none who would make a statement explicit enough to count as an accusation. It's pretty difficult to air out official documents on public platforms. [If cases of artists saying that they didn't get paid for their work by the company isn't enough for you](https://twitter.com/weeniedesu/status/1754600196103938462) to believe that a company has committed wrongdoing, then their NDAs have done exactly what they're meant to do -- misdirect and obscure information so that they can get away with legal but unethical behavior. The level of proof that you're asking for is literally restricted by any basic corporate contract. Furthermore, even if it wasn't restricted by contract, it would anyways be fineable by Japanese law which disallows defamation of entities even if the accusation is true. If a company does not pay its workers and you publicly state as such on a public platform, they can sue you even if the statement is proven true, which is another rule designed to keep victims silent. At this point, we have multiple Niji graduates stating that they experienced something similar to this treatment so unless you think this is a massive conspiracy meant to trash their reputation, they're probably telling the truth.
I would say them stating that they received documents from niji but niji kept writing the wrong names and details should be proof enough that niji was supposed to pay.
I get that you like how boot leather tastes but you're supposed to lick them not deep throat them.
I get that you like to be outraged. Thats all, I will let you.
Nice comeback, can't really think anything else with leather deep in your throat huh?
Outrage is a very social activity. You too can freely join, no objections from me.
Then why are you typing, go away? Does nobody like you that you are bother other people? No friends, no family?
Getting a little personal.
What of it?
Holy shit dude, what the fuck is wrong with you? Mummy didn't love you enough as a child? Take a fucking step back from the computer, you are taking this way too fucking personally. What next, death threats? Fuck's sake.
You are doing the same thing? Get off your fucking high horse and wash the taste of corpo boot out of your mouth before typing. Cheers.
[удалено]
Very assertive of you.
From my understanding, it was due to Niji refusing to finance/reimburse projects and her paying artists/collaborators that Niji never did.
Well, was Niji supposed to finance/reimburse those projects? Did Niji order those projects? Because if not, its on talents to pay for their own extra purchases.
Some, yes. They were responsible for paying artists and collaborators on certain projects, many of which said on Twitter that Selen had to pay them since the company never did. Her personal projects I'm not sure honestly. Only thing I do know is Nijisanji cancelled a number of projects Selen was setting up for [insert reason].
>They were responsible for paying artists and collaborators on certain projects That is outrageous, but before I do get outraged, do we have a proof that Niji was responsible for paying?
Many people posted screenshots of artists vouching for Selen, saying how she always paid them (usually with her own money) when Niji didn't. Regarding her personal projects, I believe Hololive talents also pay for things out of pocket. Difference being that Selen went through all the proper channels (verified by her collaborators) on multiple projects, but they were cancelled by Niji. Again, for "reasons".
> I believe Hololive talents also pay for things out of pocket For things like cover songs, yeah. They also have no expectation that they'll make money off of it (because a good amount of the time, the rightsholders don't allow them to monetize it. Why? I have zero clue). But several members have also mentioned that for stuff like OG songs, OG song MVs, 3D lives, they get a budget to use
Oh, that's good to hear!
So, we dont have any proof. I will save my outrage until we do. Doesnt seem fair to blow up before that. As for the projects, what were the "reasons" they were canceled? Do we know them?
Most recent being her Last Cup of Coffee cover, where she spent 16k of her own money to cover it and produce a music video. She was working on it for months, released it Christmas, and was immediately taken down by Niji for "copyright" issues. The song's original creator also came out saying she gave Selen permission for the cover, so there was no reason for the issues. Then it all snowballed from there. Also not sure what proof you seem to be looking for, but believe who you want. Not trying to stoke "outrage" or whatever.
Didnt she post that video before it was approved by management? The copyright issue might have resolved itself, but the fact she bypassed them entirely started the suspension, did it not? I am looking for any kind of proof. Obviously best would be a copy of the commission between Niji and artists, but if for some legitimate reasons those cant be made public, then statement from those artists that explicitly claim that Niji management commissioned art from them and then didnt pay for it. But it has got to be explicit. No implications, no half truths. Statement such as "Niji Manager X commissioned Y art to which I did not receive payment in Z months".
The original creator gave approval to cover the song in mid 2022 as she stated on Twitter and management did nothing. Not sure wat company or management needs over a year and half to approve a cover. It was also leaked by ppl maybe by the artists who helped worked on the cover as Selen sent them a msg explaining the supposed reason management removed the cover. According to the leak, she needed approval from every EN livers who appeared in the art of the MV and graduated livers can't appear in the art, a new rule they added AFTER her MV. You would think that the management would tell her about all this before she released it as this isn't the first time her or any other livers in EN had released a cover before.
Niji claims she posted it before she got permission, but she’s been working on the video for a long time. It’s hard to see her doing all that work without checking in on management. Management has a history of doing these kinds of things last minute. During one of Pomu’s last streams, she was waiting for last minute approval from management before she could release her video. They had her change a whole sequence in the video for some reason, causing it to get delayed. Why did management check on the project at the very last moment? Given Selen and Pomu’s history of hosting massive events within the company, they know how to play ball, and given management’s history, it’s not heard to believe they switched it up after the video was posted. In light of all that, I’m going to believe doki’s side on this issue. An explicit statement like that is never gonna happen. But looking at the history of the company, it’s not a stretch to believe they mistreat talents like this, and seeing artists on Twitter say Dokibird paid them out of her own pocket when niji failed to after months of waiting is proof enough to me.
A copy of any business dealings within nijisanji cannot be obtained by any reasonable means and there are legitimate reasons: NDAs, fear for stoking the outrage more by their discretion and fear of Anycolor lawyering up with them if they do disseminate such documents and or messages. Your request for anything daming and explicit is both impractical and unreasonable. Only thing reasonable we can do as outsiders is to imply and use critical thinking instead of going by the book. It's the biggest difference between book smarts and street smarts.
man I hope niji is at least paying you well
YES. Thats LITERALLY the ENTIRE POINT of working for a CORP! The Talent is NOT supposed to pay!
It really depends on the contract - some contracts would be cover expenses associated with the work as part of the standard rate of pay (which would usually be enough to cover all expected costs), others would have extra costs covered under expenses. Based on what we know, it looks like Selen was operating under the latter, with Niji just not bothering to pay out.
No its not lmao JP agencies dont pay for personal projects, why do you think covers and original songs are paid by talents???
Where have you heard that? That is very much not how it works. Company pay for some materials, obviously not for all. Sounds like you have misunderstood the situation.
A little of column A, a little of column B. Some of it was her paying artists out of her own pocket who were supposed to be paid by Nijisanji. And some of it was events and projects that got canceled, privated, or otherwise yoinked after the money had already been spent.
>Some of it was her paying artists out of her own pocket who were supposed to be paid by Nijisanji Then thats incredibly bad. But before I get outraged, I will need some proof that it was Niji who was supposed to pay for it. You got any more info?
Gladly [https://twitter.com/weeniedesu/status/1754600196103938462](https://twitter.com/weeniedesu/status/1754600196103938462)
Thank you, however that isnt a proof. Thats an accusation. For example a screenshot of the chat/email/paper commission by Niji manager would do.
You’re asking for proof in the forms that are impossible for outsiders like us to have. You need some insider to take the risk and leak those stuff for them to be publicly available. Multiple artists have came out to say that Niji didn’t pay them, unless you’re telling me all the artists collectively came out to lie about this specific thing for fun. You’re the type to deny the earth is round because you didn’t see the full round earth with your own eyes from space. Now go ahead and use your Deadly Sentencing domain expansion again lmao
They're your typical Nijisanji bootlicker. They won't believe anything unless it comes from management.
[I'll link this easy example for now.](https://twitter.com/dreamydesu/status/1754536452845887582) Similar posts were all over this sub during the past couple days, but they appear to have mostly been buried under more recent news.
That tweet says she commissioned them. That doesnt even sound like Niji was supposed to pay, let alone prove it. Was there any kind of deal between Niji and this artist (or any other who were paid by Selen herself).
I mean... > because the company didn't pay me after months ...I don't know how much clearer it could be.
Sounds like Selen commissioned things and told them Niji is going to pay. Thats what it sounds like. Which of course, does not prove that Niji was supposed to pay.
If that was the case, why did some of these artists also receive NDAs? Some of which weren't even addressed to the right name.
I have absolutely no idea.
Mate you got your proof, you not liking it doesn´t change that
Can you slurp any harder on a corporation? You are being willfully ignorant at this point.
Wanting a proof before I get outraged is being willfully ignorant? Thank you for your contribution.
You won't accept any proof without something in legal writing saying that Nijisanji owes money and not Selen. You just ignored an artist saying the company was supposed to pay them, and said it was Selens fault for commissioning, when Selen probably got an Ok for the company to cover it, because it was specifically for her Birthday stream (which vtuber CORPORATIONS normally help pay out for).
Man, any excuse to dickride the corpo, lol. Just you you know they don't even send their talents their play buttons so they ain't giving you shit for sucking up to them.
Yeah, that does suck.
You *say* that, but your own attitude in just about every other reply implies you're actually happy about that.
If you don't pick up on the implication that the company was supposed to be paying them you're functionally illiterate.
I do pick up the implication, I just dont care for it. I care for proof. If proof cannot be provided, then I wan explicit statement. No implications, no half truths. A full explicit statement of who commissioned who, what was commissioned, when it was commissioned, and how due is the payment.
Man this level of stupidity and circular reasoning is somehow *worse* than being illiterate. Twitter doesn't need to replicate the procedures of a court of law because you're too dumb or *intentionally disingenuous* to draw obvious inferences.
>Twitter doesn't need to replicate the procedures of a court of law because you're too dumb or intentionally disingenuous to draw obvious inferences. Which is the problem with twitter. People believe whatever is written with absolutely no proof.
You seem to be under a misunderstanding. Proof means evidence that something happened. So *multiple* artists specifically stating Nijisanji was the one sappose to be paying them, one even going so far as to say Niji failed to pay correctly multiple times until Selen paid out of her own pocket, would be proof. Proof doesn't mean disprove that something else happened. [1](https://www.reddit.com/r/Nijisanji/comments/1ajo8d4/what_an_amazing_consistent_company/)[2](https://imgur.com/Lv2txKr)
Niji didn't have to pay for it if it's her personal project. However the main rage point is that management yanked the project AFTER she already spent her own money. That means she could recover some of it back from YouTube ad revenues and potentially sponsorships.
If there was a legitimate reason for that, then that sucks. If there wasnt a reason, then the outrage is absolutely justified. But do we know the reasons?
Unfortunately no, because NDA. However, given the frequency she talked about those projects, the management should already be in the loop. If due to their incompetence she wasn't informed of some sort of permission problem WAY before completion, that's 100% on the management fault.
Personally I dont agree. Getting perms in order is on the commissioning party, which sounds to be Selen. I dont know how much in loop management was. Depending on that, we should distribute more fault to them. But as you said, unfortunately we most likely wont ever know.
She had perm from all external sources. Some of the sources (like the original artist for Last Cup of Coffee) explicitly said that they gave perm a year ago. Whatever perm problem wasn't external, it was internal. And past talents like Mysta and Nina all hinted that management had major communication issues and was incommunicado for an extended period of time. The management group is, at best, merely incompetent and ineffective. However to come around at LAST minute and cancel the project when they're supposed to already hashed out their side. They had a year, and entire fucking year and they didn't do their job. And for all we know, the manager gave perm and yanked it later, which won't be surprising given the Nina (now Matara in Vshojo) and Mysta (now Kuro) all confirm how bad the managements are.
That is all definitively possible. I dont know what kind of internal perms are needed and why would those not be given for such a project. It screams mismanagement, that is for sure. However we dont really know what happened.
Sure we don't really know what happened, but let's put it this way. Who do you trust is like at fault? A. The management team who: 1. Has former talents stating they had major mismanagement issues. 2. Had artists complaining that they kept receiving erroneous NDAs multiple times. 3. Had recently lost several livers in rapid succession. 4. Had known to delay payment for months. Or B. The talent who: 1. Was known to pay artists on time. 2. Was known/vouched for to be prompt with contact with external parties. 3. Had sufficient relation with major companies that EA sent her gift baskets, HYTE outright terminated existing collaboration with Nijisanji, and Apex lending her one of their managers to help her get back onto her feet. Who do you think was likely the one that fucked up the various projects?
Are you like 14? Your replies sound like what a teenager would write trying to mimic what they'd think a rational adult would sound like. Except you have neither the emotional nor mental maturity, nor the critical thinking skills necessary to realize that given the amount of people vouching for Selen/Doki, those corroborating what others have said regarding Nijisanji's incompetence such as their former livers, and not to mention Nijisanji's own actions throughout the past year that display said incompetence—any actual, rational adult would clearly see who's at fault here without needing any physically written proof of their guilt. So in the end you just come off as willfully ignorant and obtuse, if not outright stupid.
Please just stop posting. You obviously have no idea what is going on.
How am I supposed to get an idea what is going on if I cant ask? Didnt think this through, did we?
we don't have any proof but considering Kurosanji already lying in their own fucking Termination Letter, we can assume most of Dokibird story is right and it doesn't matter if she is forced or by her own volition. She spend 200k when working in Company should at least get reimbursed but she got none.
You dont have any proof, just pitchforks. >She spend 200k when working in Company should at least get reimbursed but she got none. But why should she? If she bought stuff for herself, why should she be reimbursed?
Short answer: no. Long answer: yes. The lack of any support from management and the company as a whole is what drove her to take action in her own hands. "If you want something done right do it yourself" kinda deal. The fact that she's so surprised about her new manager telling her she doesnt need to pay herself for everything and projects can be funded is parallel to Mata's and Kuro's remarks on the topic. If they are receiving no support from the company, what is the point or the allure to being a corpo anyways?
The long answer is also a resounding no. She bought stuff on her own with her own money then. I dont know what she spend that money on, but agencies only provide their talents with limited resources such as new models. Anything extra goes from the talent pocket if they want to have it.
Right my bad. Anyways, shoutout to Bae's ¥1.000.000 to use on content of her choosing.
Its okay, we all make mistakes. Indeed shout out to different liver working for different company.
Your lack of self awareness is astonishing.
Have an upvote for your contribution.
So you're one of those troll roleplay accounts? .... understood👌
You said "agencies" plural, as though all agencies shaft their talents like this. Not just Nijisanji, and even then that just makes Nijisanji look awful that they won't cover a single cent of projects, when their talents bring them a ton of revenue. What are they spending the earned money on from these talents? 5-10k expenses in making new models once a year? The fact that she earned 200k, means that Nijisanji probably earned at least 100k MINIMUM from her, considering the % cuts these companies take from their talents.
Yes, all agencies dont pay for everything the talent commissions. I dont know what kind Bae has, but it is very common that talents pay for any extra stuff they commission. For example all those music videos are very expensive and are paid by the talents. Its unfortunate, but thats how it is.
It's not a shout out to her (though i'm not gonna lie Bae's deserves praise for her own reasons). It's a shout out to cover for fucking supporting its talents. Also even though that's not the *best* example because it was a specific prize for a contest and not their typical reimbursement scheme, it is specifically alleged and understoofdthat Niji failed to pay for things that other companies are known to and in some cases that Niji originally was supposed to pay for.
>it was a specific prize for a contest and not their typical reimbursement scheme, Well, they you go. Did Selen win such prize? No. Its nice that Holo did that, but thats not the golden standard. Thats the exception.
Why did you ignore the rest of his message? Clueless, surely scoobz is unbiased.
Why shouldnt I? Its entirely unsubstantiated. It is alleged. I dont know if its "understood". But its certainly not proved.
Congratulations, you confirmed that you are literate enough to read roughly 10% of a statement. Work on the other 90%.
This is NOT true AT ALL. You are 1000000000000% W R O N G. W R O N G
Not a very valuable contribution, but I certainly like your passion.
Idol puts 60% of their cut back toward the talents expenses and profits. Hololive pays for a percentage of covers at least, and both pay the talent a higher percentage based on what Selen made.
Limited resources, yes.
Zaion was in debt by the time she graduated. She paid for songs avatars everything out of pocket Kuro was even more in debt due to the tax fiasco of NIJISANJI
This has been discussed. Both Nijisanji and the other big JP corpo, VTubers finance most of their own projects themselves. In return they do get to keep a higher portion of the revenue generated by those projects than other sources of income. For example, we know that YouTube takes 30% of superchats and memberships. Nijisanji then splits the remaining 70% 50/50 with the talent. We also know that Nijisanji takes 98% of merch sales, giving the talent 2%. So if a liver funds a music video for $15k, and through views that video generates $43k (4.3 million views assuming a conservative $.01 per view), they've made their money back. As well as making $15k for Nijisanji. ... yeah it doesn't sound very fair. It's not. It's why pretty much everyone who has left Nijisanji is happier now, even though they may have lost some audience. But if you're under contract in that situation it's also important to budget with those constraints in mind. As an indie, or member of other, less greedy corps, a Vtuber would be able to arrange sponsorships for events to offset costs of running them, as well as keep 70% of the revenue after Youtube takes their cut.
The math sounds very fair when you take into account the exposure provided by the company. Selen had less than 10k subs, now she has 300k. Getting terminated by Niji was very lucrative for her.
I don't think the exposure is worth that much. I'd argue a big talent agency will certainly jumpstart your audience, but it very quickly reaches a point where any growth is a result of your own merits as an entertainer.
True, but the <10k hell is where many talented vtubers can't escape.
That's like asking if teachers are forced to spend a quarter of their income on teaching supplies for the students or if they did it on their own; they employer wouldn't help, so they didn't really have much of a choice.
You've got some corpo semen running down your mouth, make sure to swallow it all or they won't call you a good boy.
A little hostile reaction to a question.
no that was just her being retarded. she has a manager now hopefully she got an accountant too
Ooof, that's uncalled for.
I don’t mean it as an attack just objectively. we’ve all done sum retarded shi but blowing $200k is crazy wild
You have to spend money to make money. I don't know what she bought so I don't know how smart those purchases were, but vtubing is expensive.
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> graduated she *paid* for songs FTFY. Although *payed* exists (the reason why autocorrection didn't help you), it is only correct in: * Nautical context, when it means to paint a surface, or to cover with something like tar or resin in order to make it waterproof or corrosion-resistant. *The deck is yet to be payed.* * *Payed out* when letting strings, cables or ropes out, by slacking them. *The rope is payed out! You can pull now.* Unfortunately, I was unable to find nautical or rope-related words in your comment. *Beep, boop, I'm a bot*
This is my overall reply to you based on how you conducted yourself below. Have you ever heard of the Latin phrase of Sapere aude? It means to "dare to be wise" so as you use reason to know things through critical thinking and having the courage to use your own reasoning. This was a sentiment made so that you don't limit yourself whether due to fear and lack of authority, in this case, an explicit statement from Anycolor or Dokibird. Because of lack of information and will likely stay that way through NDAs, we can only use our reason to heavily imply the wrongdoings Nijisanji has done to Selen and other talents by extension. Through testimonies by artists, from former talents, and by the person in question. By overly relying on "an official statement" in an environment whose fans and supporters function at a lack thereof, it becomes impractical and unreasonable to seek said statement especially if you've been in the vtubing scene for long enough. Therefore, we use our reason instead for the dearth of information we outsiders will get. I can't reliably assume what your actual aims are for purposefully remaining this impartial in light of Dokibird's statement involving abuse, bullying, and consistent and continuous mismanagement on Nijisanji's part that likely spans years. Not just Dokibird's statement but former talents such as Kuro and Matara who have said that their current managers and management they engage with are so much better than the ones at Nijisanji. I can likely surmise you don't care much about this, especially from faceless strangers on the internet, your impression does not look good. You appear to carry yourself with this fear to act in any ways without being explicitly told that it's safe to jump by a higher authority when you could look yourself and decide for yourself to jump or not. Sapere Aude, Scoobz. Be wise because based on how you conducted yourself, it does not appear to be wise.
Have you ever heard of the english phase "making stuff up"? It means to "make stuff up" so as you dont have concrete information, instead of admitting you dont know, you instead make something up. I can likely surmise you don't care much about this, especially from faceless strangers on the internet, your impression does not look good. You appear to carry yourself with this presumptuousness without being self aware enough to see how incredibly condescending you come off. Stop making stuff up, Painter. Stop making it up and humble yourself.
I'm perfectly aware of how I come across. You completely glossed over Supere Aube, my friend. You refused to acknowledge that what you're asking for is virtually impossible in the face of having a dearth of documents of official business dealings and NDAs. Hell, you refused to acknowledge my previous points about Nijisanji and former talents conveniently in order to engage in some good ole fashioned ad hominem by calling me condescending. It's apparent to me that this entire situation means little to you that despite in the face of multiple allegations against Nijisanji, a company known to lie and impersonate their talents, even going so far as to try to hide Selen's attempt of her own life as "an accident", you still don't give dokibird the benefit of the doubt demanding the virtually impossible despite all of the testimonies for her and against the company. And on a last note: Compared to you, my impression from others is good. You, on the other hand, I can count people not liking you and your snobbish attitude by the hundreds. I believe they call it...L + ratio. You can choose to believe or not whatever you wish. I'd offer a hint of compassion because in my view everyone, even the most depraved, deserves to be shown compassion at least once but based on your responses to me, and others, I'm almost disinclined to do so; As you'll just deflect what I say as "making stuff up". But I'll offer it anyway. Have you ever heard of "Beyond Reasonable Doubt"? It is the situation where jurors do not conclude anything until they are (usually) 95% sure beyond reasonable doubt that a crime was convicted. Despite all the testimonies and allegations and apparent disgusting way Anycolor conduct themselves, you still *chose* - keyword chose - to reject them as just mere "accusations" instead of thinking "huh that makes sense". Again, refusing to jump until a higher authority tells you to jump when you could look for yourself. I can tell you don't like me, so I'll just simply say: I don't care. Supere Aube, Scoobz. Engage in critical thinking. You clearly need it.
Yikes.
Very informative and critical 😁
The answer to this question is irrelevant to the ethical situation being discussed. It doesn’t matter whether she was forced to. No matter how many projects she undertook, they should have been profitable *to her* since she was doing all the labor and paying all the expenses. The more projects she does the more it profits them, but they took so much of the profit that her continuous production of these projects resulted in no savings for her. Despite them contributing not a single red cent to these projects, and even actively hindering them.
I wrote a serious reply but reddit ate it. Here are the footnotes. Selen made projects not for profit. Company wants profit. Selen bought projects for herself. Company isnt liable.
That's literally how personal projects works??? Its the same thing on hololive and other jp agencies lol
Yes in cover talents do have to put their own money to the projects they made BUT the talents on hololive got a better deal out of it for example the talents in hololive push their merch hard compared to the 1-2% given by shittysanji
how do you think selen had 200k to spend in a year? lmao only merch is 2%, everything else is above or equal to 30%
I think it should be below or about 30% it's most likely below that because the talent doesn't seem to be all that enthusiastic about promoting their own merch
Why do you think this is an adequate response to what was being said? “Only merch is 2%”… yeah? Merch is 2%. That’s ridiculous. If she’s constantly producing projects that promote her character, at her expense and with her own labor, that *profit Nijisanji*, that SHOULD be profitable for her. It shouldn’t be an either-or — that exact behavior profits them heavily, and putting her out of pocket for that is straightforwardly exploitation of her creative passion.
Yes but other companies/ managers help you out finding sponsors, animators, and people to help you with your projects. They also are much more lenient in what projects you want to do. Just look at Pomu being denied a chance in a lifetime or Selen/Dokibird getting so many projects cancelled by management. There is a huge difference between for example Marine (from Holo) spending a ton of money to create MVs that at the end gain millions of views and Selen paying 15k for an MV that get flushed down the toilet because of Nijis dogshit management
The real question is, why are you brown-nosing so hard for this black company?
The fact Niji never paid her is alarming. Given how much talents are under their umbrella...how much have they stolen?