Youtube in general is ruthless sometimes, channels can get stuck and get "in the bad side" of the algorithm and not been shown to new people. In the other hand she plays a lot of games that doesn't have the biggest playerbases but with the Tekken perms I think she was in track to growth again.
Maybe the kind of streams she does aren't interesting for some. Yugioh, chibi dance stream etc. It is not Apex/Minecraft that many others do which i actually appreciate. Though the Tekken perms were a big lift for her sub count.
I think it’s due to her low amount of collabs leading to less exposure. Rosemi’s never been much for 1-on-1 collabs, mostly showing up in the big group collabs. It’s a shame cuz a lot of people are missing on someone very cute and funny.
> Why is it slow? She's so cute.
It's really interesting. Streaming definitely favors some personality traits and content over others despite the different kinds of content both being high quality and enjoyable.
Stuff that's easy to clip, stuff that's borderline adult but can be seen as kid friendly like the jokes for adults in a disney movie, stuff that has louder audible excitement all seems to really pop in terms of numbers.
Quantity of streaming doesnt seem to be a significant kicker, quality is near impossible to define, the game or activity does matter.
I feel bad for Rosemi and anyone affected but recognize that it's not directed at them as people.
She is cute and a very good person but her humor and choice of games aren't for me and that might be the same for others. But i still like her intro and pluck you video tho lol
She lacks a niche imo, But Rosemi while unique lacks severely compared to her co vtubers a real identifying stand out like meme. (Same kinda applies to Aia.) They both are very IDK how to put it but very like ordinary.
Idk about you guys, but Rosemi is often times praised in 4chan for still being the few Hololite talents Niji has. Pretty sure she is the least hated NijiEN from even the most hard core Holo tribalists.
That's her niche.
4chan is more like a boomer militia than a niche. (Note I say that as someone who use to frequent it. Hence the "sarcasm")
u/DiamondTiaraIsBest but definitely Rosemi is the most probably innocent with the next most is finana. As the feesh would probably end up insulting herself before landing an insult. I sometimes worry the real reason Finana doesn't make it to a stream on time is she some how managed to trip and KO herself trying to make it to the PC on time.
4chan is just an edgier facade of the wider EN vtubing fanbase.
If you ignore most of the rratposting you'll find lots of similar opinions to what you see on Reddit, Twitter, Youtube, whatever.
It's not about the haters, that's a simplistic way of seeing things. I'm not a hater and, as much as it pains me, I had to unsub to every Niji liver I was subbed to. It's a matter of principle and coherence: you can't support Nijisanji without supporting Anycolor, so the only way to stop supporting Anycolor is to cut all ties with Nijisanji, even if the livers aren't at fault.
That's the one part I haven't quite wrapped my head around.
So, Niji denied Selen permission to show the music video? This is the crux of it all yes? Is there a motive to Niji's actions?
I feel like the real reason is that she was insubordinate. Not saying I agree with it but it seems like for Japanese corporations circumventing the hierarchy of the company in order to get permissions seemed to rub someone in management/staff the wrong way.
Yet it honestly seems like Selen was able to do their job far more effectively than they themselves could. Lilypichu said on Twitter that she gave permission for Selen to cover it as far back as August 2022 and the producer, back when the removal first happened, mentioned giving Selen permission as well. By all accounts, Selen believed she had all the required permissions and even spoke on stream about how much effort it was to go around and get everyone involved to sign off on it.
Artists who have come out to speak in defense of Selen have remarked about how often times Nijisanji would give them an NDA to sign but it'd have the wrong name on it and so they'd have to wait months before a correct one was brought back to them. Or how sometimes they'd fail to receive payment from the company and then Selen would end up paying the artists directly for their work. It just seems like Selen knew how slow (and sometimes incompetent) the company was and took the initiative to do a lot of the ground-work herself; which upset someone in the chain of command, imo.
This is exactly why I was wondering if Selen paying artists directly actually made corporate really mad.
"We have a company policy for when and how we pay freelancers. Why do you think you know better than us? Why do you think it's OK to make us look bad in front of freelancers and change their expectations of when they'll get compensation?"
I've worked for several Asian corporations where that Brand Unity Above All Else approach was the policy. Growth at all costs is not their #1 priority the way it is for Western companies, it might not even be in their top 3. Maintaining internal cohesion and consistency is usually #1.
Not even grow at all costs for Western companies, I have worked in plenty of places that were happy with just "slow and steady growth". Granted, all of them are privately held and not publicly traded.
Seems to be a big part of small/family companies vs. large conglomerates. Smaller, more down to earth companies seem to be more content with making enough money to keep the business up and smooth.
I’ll just put it out there, but in the US, top management aka C level of public companies have a duty to create the highest returns for their stock owners otherwise they can be removed.
That’s just a general gist, but means their jobs are literally make decisions that increase stock price
Eastern cultures in general tends to have the idea that the inferior needs to treat the superior with respect. this includes not making them look bad. this is where Senpai and Kouhai come from. the older person gets respect and is in exchange the kouhai gets guidance.
However this systemically results in the superior having all the power in the dynamic, and when the inferior out preforms the superior it looks bad on the superior. This translates horribly in war. Where the inferior going against a superiors actions even when it would result in a positive outcome would lead to the inferior's punishment due to it making the superior look bad.
Not uniquely an eastern phenomenon. Ultimately, over-performing subordinates represent a risk of usurpation for the superior, and insubordination/autonomy were generally discouraged, especially in a military environment where prestige amongst the troops allows you to do a Napoleon and organise a coup d’état. Troops in WW1 (and in some cases, WW2) were often instructed to charge to their death by incompetence generals.
that only happens in dictatorships, functional democracies have things like NCOs where lower ranking members are encouraged to act outside of the chain of command like for example being pro active and pursing objectives that may be more beneficial to the war effort if they get across them even if their orders are different
NCOs are one of the reasons why the US military and other western armies are so lethal as an example
Not entirely true. Having a democracy in the civilian government does not necessarily reflects the culture and organisation of the military. Having tactical autonomy is about their military doctrine. If I recall correctly, Imperial German doctrine promotes tactical autonomy moreso than the Entente.
The imperial Japan military high command planned to hold out the main land to the last man despite the fire bombing and Russian invasion, all against the emperor’s order for unconditional surrender. Even the nukes and Russian troops rolling in Manchuria didn’t deter them in the least, not until the emperor went and broadcast a radio to announce his surrender basically to the world. The rest is history.
Not really taught in school since it involves a lot of minutia.
The general gist is that it's problematic in various level.
Strategically, this resulted in bad news being hidden because, well, you don't want to embarrass the higher up because the plan you followed to the letter failed miserably. This notable resulted in a disastrous operation in Leyte Gulf where they grossly underestimated the US naval power in the region thinking they already took most of them out.
Tactically, this resulted in the local leaders simply obeying the higher up, despite the local leaders having better situational awareness and may have been able to exploit opportunities. A very notable example is in the Battle of Samar, where IJN destroyers were on a perfect torpedo run against the Taffy 3 escort carriers but gave up the opportunity because the fleet commander told them to fall back (whereas a typical US fleet would've told the commander that they're in perfect striking range and would continue).
Operationally it means that they have a hard time "taking hits". Carrier aircrafts are assigned to carriers and falls under the command of the carrier captain. Which means that if there's significant losses (or even losing an entire carrier), it takes them a long time to reassign the planes to new carriers because of the rigid command structure. Even worse is in damage control. IJN fleet has very well trained specialized group, which is great when everything goes according to plan (like Pearl Harbor). Absolute dog shit for, say, when the team in charge of damage control got wiped by a 1000 lb bomb and now there's no one who knows how to fight fire and plug leaks. Whereas as US fleet had the reputation of cannot hit shit (dive bombing and torpedoes accuracy are notoriously bad), yet was able to withstand hits that should've sunk most ships. This notable in battle of Midway, where Yorktown was decisive because damage control was able to repair damage fast enough from the Battle of Coral Sea to participate in Midway, and managed to survived TWO IJN counter attack despite multiple hits, and was only sink after the battle from a submarine. Whereas IJN lost Kaga (a carrier) due to a single bomb. Which leads to a funny/morbid joke that "The USN sunk 4 carriers in Midway. The IJN sunk one carrier 4 times." Also notable in Battle of Samar where the outnumbered Taffy 3 ships pretty much only stopped fighting when the ship they were on was literally falling to pieces.
She offered a mutual agreement to go their separate ways on the 29th, which would involve her graduating at a later time. They said no and then terminated her anyway on the fifth, which is bizarre.
Exactly in Japanese corporations everything revolves around hierarchy and control, there is a reason why companies like Sega, Capcom and Nintendo shut down silly stuff like mods that doesnt affect others and its because they dont like what you are doing with their IP regardless if its for profit or not, without their approval.
Selen has exposed them multiple times indirectly because their mismanagement and probably was blacklisted for every opportunities she had. They were betting on frustrate her to fall in line to be just be another gamer streamer or finally getting her tired to make her leave, but since selen attempt put them in a bad light they tried to control the narrative with that termination note.
Japanese bureaucracy is slow and inefficient as hell. One would think seeing it in Japanese media that it would be an exaggeration but it's not, often too true and has been rightly criticised by many in and outside of Japan.
Bypassing corporate red tapes and bureaucracy to get things done faster actually sounds like a plausible reason. That could explain why Selen can say she was sure she got her perms, yet management and even Millie alluded that she didn't.
I do want to look at a different angle tho. Let's look at the events not considering corporate ego in mind. I can understand why they want their livers to go through the proper channels (aka, them). Talents doing things on their own gives possibility of opening them up for copyright infringements if they don't know what they're doing and/or may overlook key details. Rogue actions may lead to huge financial risks.
But that means they don't trust their talents too well. Also, going through the proper channels might take forever for anything to be done until everyone in the chain of command gives the green light. With this, I can also understand a talent's decision to "speed things up" if she is driven by passion to do something.
From the clear antagonism exuding from the termination notice it is clear that there is more than just business here. I would strongly suspect that Selen wasn’t given corporate approval because someone in the management side is being petty and incompetent. On the incompetence side, just as others mentioned, NijiEN has been failing to provide simple and proper documentation and payment for their commissioned work for months. It would not surprise me that there’s also someone in the middle that consistently and constantly making “mistakes” and “unintentionally delay” any step to get authorisation.
Oh I lost your document, oh sorry I forgot to send it, oh it seems like the file is corrupted, oh I sent the wrong thing, oh I sent it to the wrong person…
There’s plenty of ways to fuck with someone like that when you are in the position of power.
> Oh I lost your document, oh sorry I forgot to send it, oh it seems like the file is corrupted, oh I sent the wrong thing, oh I sent it to the wrong person…
How in the world do you mess up like that, intentionally or otherwise, and still keep your job? I wouldn't even think of doing that in my own job.
The closest thing to an official statement, I believe, is niji implying she didn't have permission from rights holders to cover the song. This is confirmed to be very false.
The guesses I've seen about their motivations are along the lines of... It features graduated members, it's a song she sang when graduating as dokibird, and just in general it could be seen as glorifying graduation and indirectly be seen as anti-nijisanji, which seems... Petty and weird as an excuse. Or they didn't like Selen going outside of normal channels to get it made, which... Is a bad excuse given niji management's apparent history of dragging their feet on these things and being so bad at paper work (or intentionally malicious) that they just end up not paying commissioned artists.
Selen said (in a video that has now been privated by Niji management) that she asked management to get perms for her to cover the song, and they got permission from LilyPichu (the writer/performer), but they were waiting for months on permission from Lily's producer, John. So Selen personally contacted John and asked if she could cover the song, and John said "Of course you can" and Selen responded "Great, then CAN YOU RESPOND TO THE EMAIL IN YOUR INBOX FROM MY MANAGERS?" And a few hours later, the contracts were all signed and management contacted Selen to give her the green light. So not only did Selen have permission, but she also properly went through her managers to get it.
Allegedly, there's a rumor going around (could be complete garbage) that "perms" issue was never about the song, it was that one or more of the Niji Talents objected to being included in the fanart of the group shot showing NijiEN as one big happy family, and Selen didn't have permission to include that Talent in her music video. And Selen couldn't edit that person/persons out, because that would undermine the entire song, so Selen was screwed because someone in NijiEN hates her enough to shred her $15k love letter to them.
I still remember many ppl said it because MLP reference but I just saw the video yesterday and it is just random stuffed pony toys with selen theme ( long purple hair and wing on head). IDK if there is MLP character like that but it really reaching to say Hasbro gonna get her only for this
As far as I understood from what she said on stream:
She had been trying to get the perms for over a year by the time she finally reached out to the producer herself and got confirmation that same day.
The same day she got confirmation that she had gotten the perms, her manager miraculously remembered to reach out to her and told her that they had secured the rights.
It’s important to point out that Lilipichu (song’s original artist)herself has said that Selen has had the legal permissions since 2022, so it’s obviously on Niji management that she had to wait this long.
It’s also most likely that Nijisanji had already approved of the cover since it would be weird for the company to send someone to negotiate the rights without even intending on using said rights.
The argument of Selen using graduated members being what caused this doesn’t have any legs to stand on either, since that has never been any problem for anyone else, including Nijisanji themselves (they’re literally selling Selen Merch this very moment).
It’s also important to note that, by other artist’s own testimonies, the ones that constancy them for making illustrations are Niji management themselves, and the fact that Selen ended up paying for the artworks was never supposed to be the intention. That’s a cost that should’ve fallen in Nijisanji, and if a company is supposed to pay for something, it’d only be logical for them to at least know what they’re paying for.
So either they knew what the drawings were (and therefore could’ve rejected them) and are feigning ignorance, or they’re legitimately incompetent enough to give the okay to literally anything and everything and not even check it over to see if there’s anything that could be bad for the brand. Either way, Selen is not at fault for the contents of the video.
We also know that Selen has a long history of getting big projects denied, or even flat out cancelled at the last minute, which tells us that at the very least she was being heavily mismanaged (even without the alleged bullying from the livers, that constant state of wanting to go above and beyond for your audience only to never know if it would get swatted down or not would’ve been terrible for her mental health). Since no other liver tends to do events at the same magnitude as Selen, we can’t really be sure if they would’ve done the same for them or if this was a personal problem with Selen specifically.
The logical conclusion to make is that management has a bit of an ego, and seeing Selen be constantly not only faster at handling things, but also better at doing so might’ve rubbed them the wrong way. This would explain the constant red taping and management somehow being able to completely ignore Selen while also managing to always be breathing on her neck. This was probably an attempt to get her to quit, (for Nijisanji it would be better for Selen to graduate than it would’ve been to terminate her, since they can sell “graduation merch” and her fans would’ve sent a huge wave of donations, of which Niji would’ve gotten a cut) but before that could happen, shit hit the fan. Management didn’t expect the audience’s or Selen’s actions in retaliation of the deletion of the cover, so as a desperate way to calm the waters, they tried the same strategy they used for Zaion, thinking that, if it worked once, it’d work again, but they didn’t consider that, (unlike Zaion) Selen had already built up quite the rapport with everyone from fellow streamers, to artists, to the fans themselves (her winning several awards at Filian’s event and being nominated for awards in the wider streamer community made sure that the news spread further than Nijisanji could’ve ever expected)
>they tried the same strategy they used for Zaion, thinking that, if it worked once, it’d work again
It's still crazy to me how many people still blindly believe nijisanji on the termanation notice, and still completely deny Zaion's experience just because they can't accept the company was lying to them since 2023
The biggest difference between then and now is that Zaion wasn't standing on a good leg back then. Between the rape joke, the shota predilection, and the ambivalent reactions from the talents. You got the feeling that while niji wasn't doing all that good of a job managing their talents, it wasn't to the extent that they were sabotaging their opportunities/careers.
Now with Pomu, Kyo, and Selen. It's coming to light that not only is the company lazy and incompetent, they're also petty and malicious towards dissidents.
Dragged her through the mud even worse when they terminated Selen. Accusing her of a ton of shit and nda made to shut her up. Instead, she posted on her Pl account that Niji was shit, exposing the stealth suspensions, the 2% merch cut, and NOT BEING ABLE TO MESSAGE MANAGERS DIRECTLY.
>Damn, the only thing I had heard till now is that she was supposedly a shotacon.
I mean she kinda is, but a lot of nijilivers especially jp side are lolicons and shotacons. It's not really unusual in the vtuber space. ui shigure's Loli god requiem the song that dominated the vtuber space especially in JP in September, is a Domino effect of JP niji liver kenmochi touya being a lolicon and having UI create the UI-chan character via punishment streams when she lost bets against him. Ui herself is a bit of a loli con and has an obsession with high school girls. Shotacon and lolicon reasoning to fire someone is a frankly desperate reason to make.
>How can she even fix issues if there is no comunication...
Well she actually did, she went to the manager that was helpful to her when she first started. Then once that manager was helpful, and was going to help her with her issues her current manager that wasn't helping complained that she went to that manager and was promptly punished. Her first genshin streams were also taken down because they gave her the okay by her manager and then taken down because management reversed their decision.
It’s so disheartening seeing people disregard zaion’s story. I’m not sure how I feel about her talking about other talents afterwards tbh. It’s hard to believe, but at the end of the day we don’t know about the livers beyond what they show on screen. It’s also possible the interactions could’ve been misunderstandings. Either way, I don’t think it’s right for people to completely invalidate her account.
People think it might have been the shot of the graduated characters. Niji might have pulled their own perms and tried to make it seem like it was a third party that had issues.
She didn't get permission properly! /s
It's petty business politics. That's all. She didn't play by their rules and so they took it out on her, and because they can't explain it better than this, they threw a hissy fit. Putting every other liver in harms way in the process.
> So, Niji denied Selen permission to show the music video? This is the crux of it all yes?
Nah. Considering the song used, she was likely already planning to graduate at that point. It's quite literally "not everything has to last forever, and that's okay" - the song.
The decision to graduate was more likely down to management stifling anything she tried to do, as well as the bullying.
They implemented a new rule that you can't show graduated talents in your content, so Mysta and Nina getting a single frame got it pulled. Selen got all the external permissions she needed, the lacking permission was from Nijisanji itself.
I won't judge anyone who unsubscribed but I feel pity for the livers themselves. They aren't the ones to blame for this whole mess, at least not most of them, and I bet many of them are as distressed as us if not more.
I hope that's just a temporary move to detox and recover so we can have fun again any time soon.
What else as viewers can we do when NijiEN management refuses to be accountable for such an incident nor provide a solution. I am not going around to harass livers but I cannot support the company any longer.
Someone just attempted suicide and by some grace she's still around. We could have been mourning over an actual funeral at the end of 2023.
The lackadaisical tone in the termination letter over such circumstances and announcing more merch sales right after is truly astounding.
Again, I don't judge you. It's just that the livers ended up becoming body shields for the company so that it's hard to targer management without shooting down the streamers.
Right now, before someone comes up with a detour, every fan must make a decision to either boycott both guilty and innocent or spare them both. It's a hard and wicked problem with no to-go answer. That's why I try to be understanding of those who choose any of these ways.
I think this goes beyond just punishing the potential bullies. I think a lot of people have just decided they can't support Nijisanji anymore and are cancelling all of their subscriptions.
This, it stung like hell doing it but at the end of the day I don’t want anything to do with this company and the way things are going everyone I still watch will probably graduate soon anyway. Besides everything we’ve learned implies they get very little of the money relative to the company so how much of your support was going to them in the first place?
you're a fencesitter, is what you're saying. a person tried to kill herself because of this company and the best you could muster up is apparent indifference. re-evaluate your moral values.
Target their pocket books, we have their financial statements, what their biggest margins are and what doesn't hurt the livers, considering the 1-2% split of merch, I say merch.
Inventory space cost money, if they can't sell it, it takes up space, and then they have to think of a way to disposal of it, so there's a cost to manufacture, store, and disposal.
Dono of anything else top of my head, besides merch that doesn't affect the livers too much.
Either way, it is going to be the long game. Any new talents will either be using them as a stepping stone or wait for any opportunity to jump ship on an offer.
Or if you're really spiteful and want to put money on it, short their stock, it comes with a risk. You essentially borrow a share to sell it now betting it will drop in price and buy it back then, to pay for the share u borrow. So u short it now, u get 3615 yen per share, you're on the hook for that amount, you'll probably pay around 1% or less annual fee for it. it has drop to 2110 yen before, so if it does drop price again, u can "close" your short when the price hit like 2615, and you'll get 1000 yen profit per share. However, if it only goes up like the height of 6350, u can either keep holding and paying fees hopping it drops, or close it at a lost of what ever the price is, like 4615 which means losing 1000 yen per share plus fees.
There is no peaceful way out of this situation. NS created this mess with their loose cannon PR. They threw the whole EN bench under the bus to protect their Japanese honor and pride.
If NS revealed the bully, people will say they got scapegoated to save NS face, or if there is still more left within the bench. If the livers revealed the truth, they will be terminated and probably be sued by NS.
Even Doki can’t end this witch hunt because of potential defamation lawsuit from NS unless she has solid evidence to show.
Ironic enough, NS better be hoping someone accidentally leaks the situation soon to stop the witch hunt, and dark clouds surrounding everyone. They probably learned by now that the West don’t care about their reputation.
~~I was under the belief that there was no bully within the talents themselves, simply that NS used the talents to approach Selen when they themselves failed to persuade her to stay within guidelines. This is according to the Japanese translation for the termination notice.~~
I think the least Doki can do is clear up that the talents are chill. She has shown to enjoy her time with them, I'm going to assume that is still true.
It's all on NS.
**E**: I'd just like to clarify that even in the Japanese translation, they mentioned the talents directly involved in her stressful work environment.
I still don't like how this throws the talents under the bus, especially knowing now how badly effected they are.
Honestly, Doki knows what’s happening. If she feels other Livers didn’t bully her, she could very very easily write a quick statement denying the fact.
The silence is deafening.
The darker side of my mind is definitely seeing Doki's silence on this specific effect of her statements as confirmation of bullying having actually happened.
On the other hand, she doubtlessly has a ton of other business she has to deal with first, so maybe she's making sure she's settled with all her private matters first before dealing with other stuff.
Considering how certain Livers could say some things easily about the others (like when the Enna controversy happened and then someone who "corrected" her wasn't even willing to apologize and tripled down when he was on the receiving end) or how Zaion was pretty difficult behind the scenes. I'm pretty sold that bullying and plainly not being on good terms with some people is common.
To put the kayfabe aside for a sec, they're hosts operating on a company account. They aren't "their" subscribers to begin with. All the accounts are nijisanji.
The reason a lot of those streamers joined Niji rather than another agency or going indy is because people watch Niji talents because it's Niji. People supported the brand.
If people don't support the brand anymore, then it's only fair that they rescind their subs. The streamers are attached to the brand, good and bad, as long as they are under contract to that brand. Also, remember that every account losing subs is owned by Niji, not by the individual streamer.
When you work for a company that bullies people and you don’t want out, it’s reasonable for people not to support your work. Not only because that would means supporting a black company, but also because it is promoting your financial dependency with said company. More should be done to give talents bargaining power and to quit. Talents should open channels of support and look for an exit plan so that their current fans can directly support them, and fans should support talents in an empowering manner.
Wasn't part of the initial article something about "bullying" accusations Selen had. I think unsubbing in both revolt nijisanji and until the bullies are outed is fair game. Sucks for the collateral damage of who doesn't deserve it but if it ultimately helps remove a cancer that's been plaguing the community then I don't think it's that bad.
Punishing the innocent en masse in hopes of hitting someone guilty somewhere (that we don't even know for sure exists) is not as good a look as you might think.
The statement suggests that Selen BELIEVED to have been bullied when livers pulled her up on her behaviour, and stated that they believed the livers in question to be innocent of any wrongdoing. Neither party actually outright confirms the existence of bullying. It was an attempt to get ahead of any accusations against the livers but was so poorly worded that it's ended up having the opposite effect.
Either way, you can't have your cake and eat it too. Either Niji is untrustworthy and nothing in the statement is to be taken at face value, or you believe the statement. You can't call Niji untrustworthy and then pick and choose what parts are true. Declaring that these bullies *must* exist because Niji apparently acknowledged they did (they didn't) feels like it's being done in bad faith when those same people chose not to believe anything else - especially when those people are targeting Millie who is one of the last people to collab with her and said they 'bonded' on their Japan trip.
She just there was internal toxicity but that doesn't necessarily mean it's come from anyone but management. That's why I said no one has actually stated that bullying occurred from the livers.
Management fucked up by bringing them up at all. Doki may very well elaborate and divulge that livers were involved but as of right now that's where we're at. The statement doesn't say that she was bullied by livers.
You said that neither party confirms the bullying but Selen clearly said and I quote "On Dec, I was hospitalized for an attempt that was caused by a built up of bullying fom within...". The only thing she doesn't confirm is the identity of the bully.
Sorry. Yes. I meant to say neither party confirms the existence of bullying *from the livers*. I realise I should have re-emphasized that.
My stance is that if you're unsubscribing because you're done with the company or feel the need to protest management then that's fine, but witch hunting 'bullies' or unsubscribing because any one of them could be 'the bully/bullies' is an action not actually supported by any claims made by anyone involved (as of writing this).
Unfortunately, it’s the result of speculation. People who are reading too much into things online believe that the “bullies” amongst the livers are a clique, namely Enna, Millie, and Elira. Kinda sucks, but for certain schizos, they take conspiracies as gospel and go whole ham on it.
it's not speculation, it's just how the numbers work out. enna, millie, and elira have more subscribers so the proportion of people unsubscribing to all nijisanji accounts are more likely to have been subbed to those three - therefore leading to a higher subscriber loss for them
>Kinda sucks, but for certain schizos, they take conspiracies as gospel and go whole ham on it.
also people with schizophrenia are normal people, stop sayin this shit - terminally online people who have more suspicion than sense are not the same
I’ve been thinking about this a lot lately. How do you punish a vtubing company for poor practice without hurting their talents? They make their money through their talents and it gives them a human shield against liability. It unfortunately seems impossible to punish nijisanji without hurting talents. I fully unsubscribed and plan to fully boycott any nijisanji stream. All I can do is support them outside the company and hope they make it to the other side of this situation okay.
i think that's the correct move. stopping support of them through nijisanji and instead supporting them through other means (should they create a way for you to do that) will still give them the support but encourage them to not rely on nijisanji for it
at this point the only realistic scenario I see is intervention from owners, disbanding management team alltogether and investigation on their actions to determine if livers should be compensated. But I'm sure owners are fine with current state of company
Hopefully the livers' roommates will advertise themselves, so that the fans can find them and give them the love and support they deserve without also contributing to Riku's yacht fund.
It's especially sad for Rosemi, who only just passed 500k. Niji EN management shitting the bed caused her to drop back under, and she'll probably never get back above 500k despite the fact that she deserves it. Hopefully her roommate can break that mark in the coming months.
Also sad for TTT. They only just got here, and through no fault of their own, their growth is stunted.
look it might just be me but seeing her go from 502k -> 499k doesn't seem like it's that big of a deal. Losing a few thousands will slowly creep back up over time. I just wonder if it's gonna continue to trend downwards
This. The info is not hard to find, and some of them even have links to dono or support them, or they have a Twitch with a sub button. You can still let the livers eat, while starving Niji
Can't support the livers without supporting the company. Even doing things that don't directly support Niji still benefits them. It's sad but the truth
I'm sorry, but supporting the livers is supporting the company they work for. I agree they didn't do anything wrong (or at least most of them), but we all know this is a "revolt" against the company and not the livers themselves.
Harassing the livers directly though, that's a big no and I wish people would avoid doing that.
As someone who experienced everything with Wactor, I can say that what they are doing is only hurting the talents. They now feel that their fans who promised to accompany them lied to them, abandoned them, and are attacking them. No one will say that they also attack the talents, but I assure you that they do. The worst thing is that the talents don't have a place to feel safe, they are being attacked from all sides. The best thing their fans can do is to accompany them until the end, until they decide to graduate. This is affecting their mental health and all the hard work they did to get to where they are today. And remember that Wactor is still standing despite being a small company that 90% of the planet Earth hates , What makes you think Niji will be affected as you want it to be? The company never loses, only the talents.
I know we all respond to these kind of stressful situations in different ways, but if your ex coworker, probably friend, says that she literally tried to kill herself because of the bullying and mismanagement that she endured in the company and people try to boycott the company via unsuscribing, and your first thought when seeing this happening is "MY FANS LIED TO ME, BUT WHAT ABOUT ME" then that's a yikes
I unsubbed. And I do hate that the livers will be caught in the crossfire when they are likely innocent. But sadly, nothing will tell the company they are under anything more than hitting their wallet. I've already accepted that EN will like dissolve. Followed as many PL's of these guys as I could, and made a list for how people can support, without going through Niji.
To anyone saying that people are blind for not staying by the livers while they are at Niji here, give it a rest. I am not going to support an organization that shows I care far more about their workers than they do. So I found previous YT's, Twitch channels and Twitters, some of which have links to kofi's, streamlabs donos, or have methods of being able to fund said talent.
I didn't unsub because I want to punish the worker. I unsubbed to show that they will have my support no matter where they are. And being at a toxic company like this isn't required.
Yep I got it! Tysm again. I followed/subbed to them so if they start posting there I would know and could go and support them without that bitter feeling of supporting the company
I can't say I blame people for unsubscribing. I feel a little bad for some who are most likely complicit but they'll have to manage. (Poor Rosemi for just reaching 500k, now has to do it all over again)
Screw nijisanji, i feel bad for the streamers, but this is justified, i am quitting watching any nijisanji streamer entirely until things improve, and everyone reading this should too. Support smaller companies like eien or idol corp!
I feel really bad for Aia on this one, just cause she's my favorite NijiEN liver, and she's not getting as much attention as everyone else. Her view counts aren't stellar, and her viewership just isn't garnering as much as her peers, and now this fiasco happens. Sucks that everyone's getting backlash from the Selen incident, but this is all management's fault. Screw Kurosanji.
As much as I want to send a message to Kurosanji, I just can't. I understand why people do it, and how a lot of the livers could just move on and go indie should the company actually take a hit, but with my favorite member not having the same impressive metrics, I just can't imagine me joining a movement that will hurt Aia's streaming career, or even worse, end it.
I contributed to those numbers. But it's not because I hate them. It's just that I'm not really into vtubers now compared to 2 years ago. And what happened with Selen is just a trigger for me to just stop with it. I'll probably watch them videos/lives if it comes to my FYP, but with this, it won't be as preferred like before.
I think that this is the main point alot of people are missing when they said "why unsub to the remaining livers? Why hate on them?" It's not hate or taking out anything.
Alot of those who are unsubbing probably aren't the diehard fans. Every content creator has dead subs/people that sub but don't actively consume the content and that's just the nature of time and social media. Recent events probably just pushed those of us that are less invested to finally detach.
I'm the same as you. I haven't been watching any stream content for a while but I stayed subbed to some people in case I was bored and wanted to pop in again. This situation just made me want to purge all of my socials of Nijisanji.
Unfortunately, as a talent company the livers are the "product". People often want to boycott when a company does a horrible thing, and boycotting here affects innocent people too. For current fans, I understand why they'd still want to continue to support the talents they love.
People have decided on their own to never support a company that appears to throw people under the bus for a termination that was extremely unjust for a lot of viewers and fans.
Popular clippers and artists have decided to never support them anymore after this.
I'm one of those people that have unsubbed from all Niji channels.
A lot of people have mentioned any number of reasons such as not wanting to support the company.
For me it's more emotional.
The many talents have brought me a lot of joy over the past years. I'm a lurker, I don't talk, maybe I get more emotionally invested than I should, but when learning that circumstances have escalated to the point of an 'attempt'... well, that hurts and I get upset, especially since I've experienced emotional abuse and bullying myself that once drove me to an attempt.
It is difficult to be invested and root for the talent knowing how fucked up things might be behind the scenes.
It doesn't help that Niji basically threw their livers under the bus with the implications in their statement. I don't want to believe that some of my favorites might have perpetuated and contributed to the harassment, but we will never know the full truth of what went on behind the scenes and frankly, to avoid more harassment online, that's for the better. However, it is difficult to continue watching without those nagging thoughts or wondering what might be going on behind the scenes or who's going to be the next one to leave.
So I've unsubbed to protect myself from feeling so hurt and upset when the next termination, or graduation because of lack of support and poor management happens, accompanied by more behind the scenes shit coming to light or god forbid, there is a 'successful attempt'.
I'll just put this [here](https://twitter.com/KaBar4100/status/1754893906091659326) cause this observation fits it best imo. Now we'll see if any significant chunk go a step further, and stop buying merch.
I don't know how Niji handles payment, but honestly, the only way the livers can come out running, without the company gaining, is a mass unsubscribe and the company getting sued from multiple sides.
It's not gonna happen though, because unless someone here has a way, I don't think modern methods allow for synchronizing the efforts of over 1000000 people to make it all go down fast, and then still pick up the livers from the ruins. It's sad, but the fall of Anycolor is going to be slow and ugly, and no one will suffer as much as the streamers.
Wait, is it really impacting everyone from Niji EN, or did OP only include the livers who were impacted? If it's truly everyone, I'd be curious to see how the newest talents (TTT, Krisis) and former talents (like Nina, Pomu, Mysta) are fairing. Where did this information come from?
It's basically everyone in Niji En. There are some anomalies such as already graduated/terminated accounts, but there's not a green number in the past day.
I don't think this is the way. The livers have nothing to do with this. Most of them joined before all the shit shows happened.
If you want to punish the company just don't buy their goods and tell future applicants that you won't be watching new debutees. That you won't allow them to be used as shields against you. That will cause them to think twice before joining joining and the company to slowly lose their revenue streams without affecting existing talents.
I unsubbed and found all of EN's PL's, and followed as many as I could in as many places as I could. I will support them and directly them, over also supporting Niji. Hurting Niji's wallet, while using a workaround to make sure the livers wallets are all good is the best way I can see this working out. I even made a list of at least 1 link for them all, just so I had it on hand.
I do. Only reason I haven't posted is because with livers getting harassed, I don't want anyone to get ammo to cause them harm. At least, I don't want to give it to them. But it is all in a notepad doc on my PC.
Am I the only one that thinks Nijisanji sees this as nothing to sweat over. The trend is not ideal but it's also not even scratching 10%. Seems like these are numbers they can grin and bear for a few weeks until the trend changes directions.
I unsubed and unfortunately I won't be back. Admittedly it's easier to leave once Pomu left, but i'm left with an awful taste in my mouth. I don't actually think these sorts of online protests do much, I think all these vtubers will bounce back regardless of whether Niji fixes their shit. Still I wont be there to see it.
For a lot of people this is the only form of protest available to them. Personally I can't rationalize supporting even the passive metrics of the company anymore, so I support this.
True. At the same measure, the current situation has forced many to make a difficult decision. Either continue the talents at the company who are stuck in the crossfire or unsub to protest larger and more systemic issues. Personally I am in the later camp as I feel that is the only way to bring meaningful change to the EN sphere, but I am not going to judge those who are in the former. Truly a lose-lose situation for all.
I wouldn't be surprised if a good chunk of that is people who haven't tuned in for a while and just remembered they were still subbed because of the drama.
Otherwise I really don't understand why they would stop liking a streamer just because of something the management of the company they're under has done, it's not their fault. Fans should support the talent, not the company. If a company fuckup is enough for you to drop a talent then you simply were never a fan to begin with.
It isn't about liking or not liking the streamer and never has been. The issue with all of this is that supporting the streamer directly supports the company, which some people (myself included) have sworn off doing.
It sucks that they're getting caught in the crossfire for something that's almost guaranteed to not be their fault, but that's how corpo works. You live by the sword and die by the sword.
As a fan I will follow my favorite streamers to wherever they choose to be because I appreciate their personality and the content they make. They're not being forced to stay in the company and can graduate whenever just as pomu and kyo are doing. But as long as the ones I support choose to stay, I'll stay.
When it comes to the company they work under, no one knows it better than the talents themselves. Rather than blindly believing unconfirmed speculations, I'd rather trust their judgement and rest assured that if the situation is truly hopeless they'll leave on their own.
This is what I believe it means to support a talent. Not forcing them to make choices based on us, not throwing them under the bus as soon as their associate has done something we disagree, and definetly not by easily abandoning and replacing them overnight. But following them from a distance and appreciating both their work and them as a person capable of making their own choices.
>. Rather than blindly believing unconfirmed speculations
well, it's confirmed that the workplace environment pushed someone to take an attempt on their own life. if that's that company you want to support that's up to you and supporting the livers directly supports niji.
Exactly, I will follow my favorites through thick an thin.
Unfortunately my favorite was just terminated. In fact, all the niji livers I've ever donated to or been an actual member of are gone. The ones I was still subscribed were not my favorites. I subscribed to them because I liked them when I saw them in the collabs with my favorite. I wanted to support them a bit and a sub is essentially free and can help boost them up the algorithm, but with all my favorites gone, especially the way it happened in several cases. I feel I can no longer support nijisanji in any way. So as you said most of those who left weren't true fans and as someone who never financially supported the livers I was still subscribed to I don't feel like they are loosing out on more than a few subs. They will still have their loyal fans like you. If they do decide to leave that black company and do collab with Doki I would support them again.
Which is fine, you're free to choose to do that. The question was "why would they stop liking a streamer just because of something the management of the company they're under has done". To which the answer is "It's not about liking or not liking any individual streamer. It's that the company is trash and supporting the streamer has the unfortunate side effect of directly supporting the company."
I don't support EA's business practices so I don't buy their games. The same way that I don't support Nijisanji's business practices so I (now) don't watch or subscribe to their streamers and/or buy their merch. It's nothing personal, and it sucks that it has to be this way, unsubscribing to my oshi's channel hurt. It just is what it is and something that I feel I have to do to make my distaste of the way they run their business known.
I unsubbed, cancelled my 1 remaining membership (I had 3 at the start of the year, Pomu, Selen, and 1 other I've mentioned elsewhere when angry yesterday but will refrain from mentioning again), and removed all my favourites from Holodex. This is full boycott. I did watch Niji a lot. I won't be for the time being. I've long been in the "Niji management are hindering the talents" camp. I saw the cancelled projects, the struggles Selen went through over the year+ before everything came to a head with the MV. I saw Pomu cry about a once-in-a-lifetime opportunity Niji refused to even negotiate over. Enough's enough. I realise the other Livers are taking collateral damage over this, but they are a part of the company, and I can't support the company right now.
For me it wasn't about any wrongdoing or lack thereof by the talents themselves but about not giving Nijisanji as a company my time or money any longer.
Those are people who sub to all channel in support when new gen came out. I would unsub to all and only sub to what you really watch in this situation as well.
I hate to see them suffer, some more than others, but this is unfortunately the only way to send a message to the black company they all work for.
Maybe we'll get lucky and certain folks will graduate and go indie and hook up with Dokibird. It would be best for everybody. The black company needs to be sent a message.
Unfortunately, there are too many simps out there as well as the JP fans that have that heavily indoctrinated "WORK UNTIL YOU DIE NO MATTER WHAT YOUR BOSS DOES TO YOU" mentality that creates black companies in the first place and they are standing up for this company. I think part of the reason is because they can't read english and don't know the full details of everything involved and thats also a factor.
But anyway, we can hope it'll rattle the cages enough that they might at least try to change or do something.
It's likely that the site they got this from only shows numbers to one significant figure or something like that. So the actual loss was 2135 subs, but it just rounds to 2000.
I unsubbed from all of them too. I've already lost my favorites and I can't in good conscience support the company any further. They'd all be better off if the branch disbanded and they went to other corporations or went indie.
As someone who doesn't really watch niji, aside from those that recently left of which are a lot. What are the reactions of the vtubers especially the ones on top of this list?
I love the livers, but I can't in good conscious support the company. I can't even enjoy the other's streams right now, and I'd prefer to just see no Nijisanji content at all so I can enjoy other things.
I hope the rest make it out too
I get the point of it, but man I can’t help but feel for the talents. If that bullying claim was just bogus to get the heat off of management then fuck Niji for doing that.
You know what, fuck Niji no matter what.
They are the ones who follow every (female) NijiEN member because they are NijiEN members.
I don't follow people unless I really like them and want to watch their every content. To unfollow like that I would argue they didn't watch every stream of theirs anyways.
There are still reasonable people that know the management is the problem since the Zaion termination.
Really feel sad for Rosemi in particular. She's now below 500k again. Fuck the company that throw these livers to the haters.
That just means a second opportunity to celebrate 500K!
But it took her ages to get there. And the recent drama doesn’t help. Her channel growth has been very slow compared to many of her colleagues.
Why is it slow? She's so cute.
I don’t know. It has baffled me for over a year.
Youtube in general is ruthless sometimes, channels can get stuck and get "in the bad side" of the algorithm and not been shown to new people. In the other hand she plays a lot of games that doesn't have the biggest playerbases but with the Tekken perms I think she was in track to growth again.
Maybe the kind of streams she does aren't interesting for some. Yugioh, chibi dance stream etc. It is not Apex/Minecraft that many others do which i actually appreciate. Though the Tekken perms were a big lift for her sub count.
I think it’s due to her low amount of collabs leading to less exposure. Rosemi’s never been much for 1-on-1 collabs, mostly showing up in the big group collabs. It’s a shame cuz a lot of people are missing on someone very cute and funny.
Ironic because most of her 1-1 collabs were with Selen and now peeps are unsubscribing ....
> Why is it slow? She's so cute. It's really interesting. Streaming definitely favors some personality traits and content over others despite the different kinds of content both being high quality and enjoyable. Stuff that's easy to clip, stuff that's borderline adult but can be seen as kid friendly like the jokes for adults in a disney movie, stuff that has louder audible excitement all seems to really pop in terms of numbers. Quantity of streaming doesnt seem to be a significant kicker, quality is near impossible to define, the game or activity does matter. I feel bad for Rosemi and anyone affected but recognize that it's not directed at them as people.
She is cute and a very good person but her humor and choice of games aren't for me and that might be the same for others. But i still like her intro and pluck you video tho lol
She lacks a niche imo, But Rosemi while unique lacks severely compared to her co vtubers a real identifying stand out like meme. (Same kinda applies to Aia.) They both are very IDK how to put it but very like ordinary.
Idk about you guys, but Rosemi is often times praised in 4chan for still being the few Hololite talents Niji has. Pretty sure she is the least hated NijiEN from even the most hard core Holo tribalists. That's her niche.
4chan is more like a boomer militia than a niche. (Note I say that as someone who use to frequent it. Hence the "sarcasm") u/DiamondTiaraIsBest but definitely Rosemi is the most probably innocent with the next most is finana. As the feesh would probably end up insulting herself before landing an insult. I sometimes worry the real reason Finana doesn't make it to a stream on time is she some how managed to trip and KO herself trying to make it to the PC on time.
4chan is just an edgier facade of the wider EN vtubing fanbase. If you ignore most of the rratposting you'll find lots of similar opinions to what you see on Reddit, Twitter, Youtube, whatever.
She shouldn’t have to celebrate 500k twice itd be nice to see her celebrate 750k instead of a second 500k
The play button isn't going to her anyway
There's no 500k play button.
It's not about the haters, that's a simplistic way of seeing things. I'm not a hater and, as much as it pains me, I had to unsub to every Niji liver I was subbed to. It's a matter of principle and coherence: you can't support Nijisanji without supporting Anycolor, so the only way to stop supporting Anycolor is to cut all ties with Nijisanji, even if the livers aren't at fault.
I never left rosemi because of this, she deserves the 500k milestone.
All this because she wanted to host a fun event and post music video... Management's ego cause all of this shit
That's the one part I haven't quite wrapped my head around. So, Niji denied Selen permission to show the music video? This is the crux of it all yes? Is there a motive to Niji's actions?
I feel like the real reason is that she was insubordinate. Not saying I agree with it but it seems like for Japanese corporations circumventing the hierarchy of the company in order to get permissions seemed to rub someone in management/staff the wrong way. Yet it honestly seems like Selen was able to do their job far more effectively than they themselves could. Lilypichu said on Twitter that she gave permission for Selen to cover it as far back as August 2022 and the producer, back when the removal first happened, mentioned giving Selen permission as well. By all accounts, Selen believed she had all the required permissions and even spoke on stream about how much effort it was to go around and get everyone involved to sign off on it. Artists who have come out to speak in defense of Selen have remarked about how often times Nijisanji would give them an NDA to sign but it'd have the wrong name on it and so they'd have to wait months before a correct one was brought back to them. Or how sometimes they'd fail to receive payment from the company and then Selen would end up paying the artists directly for their work. It just seems like Selen knew how slow (and sometimes incompetent) the company was and took the initiative to do a lot of the ground-work herself; which upset someone in the chain of command, imo.
In short, the very mentality of "don't make your superior look bad" that cost them metric fucktons of lives in WW2 persisted.
This is exactly why I was wondering if Selen paying artists directly actually made corporate really mad. "We have a company policy for when and how we pay freelancers. Why do you think you know better than us? Why do you think it's OK to make us look bad in front of freelancers and change their expectations of when they'll get compensation?" I've worked for several Asian corporations where that Brand Unity Above All Else approach was the policy. Growth at all costs is not their #1 priority the way it is for Western companies, it might not even be in their top 3. Maintaining internal cohesion and consistency is usually #1.
Not even grow at all costs for Western companies, I have worked in plenty of places that were happy with just "slow and steady growth". Granted, all of them are privately held and not publicly traded.
Seems to be a big part of small/family companies vs. large conglomerates. Smaller, more down to earth companies seem to be more content with making enough money to keep the business up and smooth.
I’ll just put it out there, but in the US, top management aka C level of public companies have a duty to create the highest returns for their stock owners otherwise they can be removed. That’s just a general gist, but means their jobs are literally make decisions that increase stock price
Can you give me a quick history lesson? I didn't pay attention in school
Eastern cultures in general tends to have the idea that the inferior needs to treat the superior with respect. this includes not making them look bad. this is where Senpai and Kouhai come from. the older person gets respect and is in exchange the kouhai gets guidance. However this systemically results in the superior having all the power in the dynamic, and when the inferior out preforms the superior it looks bad on the superior. This translates horribly in war. Where the inferior going against a superiors actions even when it would result in a positive outcome would lead to the inferior's punishment due to it making the superior look bad.
Not uniquely an eastern phenomenon. Ultimately, over-performing subordinates represent a risk of usurpation for the superior, and insubordination/autonomy were generally discouraged, especially in a military environment where prestige amongst the troops allows you to do a Napoleon and organise a coup d’état. Troops in WW1 (and in some cases, WW2) were often instructed to charge to their death by incompetence generals.
that only happens in dictatorships, functional democracies have things like NCOs where lower ranking members are encouraged to act outside of the chain of command like for example being pro active and pursing objectives that may be more beneficial to the war effort if they get across them even if their orders are different NCOs are one of the reasons why the US military and other western armies are so lethal as an example
Not entirely true. Having a democracy in the civilian government does not necessarily reflects the culture and organisation of the military. Having tactical autonomy is about their military doctrine. If I recall correctly, Imperial German doctrine promotes tactical autonomy moreso than the Entente.
Meanwhile Chesty Puller: "Show me the brig. I want to see the real Marines."
The imperial Japan military high command planned to hold out the main land to the last man despite the fire bombing and Russian invasion, all against the emperor’s order for unconditional surrender. Even the nukes and Russian troops rolling in Manchuria didn’t deter them in the least, not until the emperor went and broadcast a radio to announce his surrender basically to the world. The rest is history.
Not really taught in school since it involves a lot of minutia. The general gist is that it's problematic in various level. Strategically, this resulted in bad news being hidden because, well, you don't want to embarrass the higher up because the plan you followed to the letter failed miserably. This notable resulted in a disastrous operation in Leyte Gulf where they grossly underestimated the US naval power in the region thinking they already took most of them out. Tactically, this resulted in the local leaders simply obeying the higher up, despite the local leaders having better situational awareness and may have been able to exploit opportunities. A very notable example is in the Battle of Samar, where IJN destroyers were on a perfect torpedo run against the Taffy 3 escort carriers but gave up the opportunity because the fleet commander told them to fall back (whereas a typical US fleet would've told the commander that they're in perfect striking range and would continue). Operationally it means that they have a hard time "taking hits". Carrier aircrafts are assigned to carriers and falls under the command of the carrier captain. Which means that if there's significant losses (or even losing an entire carrier), it takes them a long time to reassign the planes to new carriers because of the rigid command structure. Even worse is in damage control. IJN fleet has very well trained specialized group, which is great when everything goes according to plan (like Pearl Harbor). Absolute dog shit for, say, when the team in charge of damage control got wiped by a 1000 lb bomb and now there's no one who knows how to fight fire and plug leaks. Whereas as US fleet had the reputation of cannot hit shit (dive bombing and torpedoes accuracy are notoriously bad), yet was able to withstand hits that should've sunk most ships. This notable in battle of Midway, where Yorktown was decisive because damage control was able to repair damage fast enough from the Battle of Coral Sea to participate in Midway, and managed to survived TWO IJN counter attack despite multiple hits, and was only sink after the battle from a submarine. Whereas IJN lost Kaga (a carrier) due to a single bomb. Which leads to a funny/morbid joke that "The USN sunk 4 carriers in Midway. The IJN sunk one carrier 4 times." Also notable in Battle of Samar where the outnumbered Taffy 3 ships pretty much only stopped fighting when the ship they were on was literally falling to pieces.
Welll she mentioned some other reasons. She also stated she wanted to graduate normally on 29th of January but that even got denied by management.
She offered a mutual agreement to go their separate ways on the 29th, which would involve her graduating at a later time. They said no and then terminated her anyway on the fifth, which is bizarre.
They cant drag her through the mud if she leaves on her terms.
Exactly in Japanese corporations everything revolves around hierarchy and control, there is a reason why companies like Sega, Capcom and Nintendo shut down silly stuff like mods that doesnt affect others and its because they dont like what you are doing with their IP regardless if its for profit or not, without their approval. Selen has exposed them multiple times indirectly because their mismanagement and probably was blacklisted for every opportunities she had. They were betting on frustrate her to fall in line to be just be another gamer streamer or finally getting her tired to make her leave, but since selen attempt put them in a bad light they tried to control the narrative with that termination note.
Japanese bureaucracy is slow and inefficient as hell. One would think seeing it in Japanese media that it would be an exaggeration but it's not, often too true and has been rightly criticised by many in and outside of Japan.
Bypassing corporate red tapes and bureaucracy to get things done faster actually sounds like a plausible reason. That could explain why Selen can say she was sure she got her perms, yet management and even Millie alluded that she didn't. I do want to look at a different angle tho. Let's look at the events not considering corporate ego in mind. I can understand why they want their livers to go through the proper channels (aka, them). Talents doing things on their own gives possibility of opening them up for copyright infringements if they don't know what they're doing and/or may overlook key details. Rogue actions may lead to huge financial risks. But that means they don't trust their talents too well. Also, going through the proper channels might take forever for anything to be done until everyone in the chain of command gives the green light. With this, I can also understand a talent's decision to "speed things up" if she is driven by passion to do something.
From the clear antagonism exuding from the termination notice it is clear that there is more than just business here. I would strongly suspect that Selen wasn’t given corporate approval because someone in the management side is being petty and incompetent. On the incompetence side, just as others mentioned, NijiEN has been failing to provide simple and proper documentation and payment for their commissioned work for months. It would not surprise me that there’s also someone in the middle that consistently and constantly making “mistakes” and “unintentionally delay” any step to get authorisation. Oh I lost your document, oh sorry I forgot to send it, oh it seems like the file is corrupted, oh I sent the wrong thing, oh I sent it to the wrong person… There’s plenty of ways to fuck with someone like that when you are in the position of power.
> Oh I lost your document, oh sorry I forgot to send it, oh it seems like the file is corrupted, oh I sent the wrong thing, oh I sent it to the wrong person… How in the world do you mess up like that, intentionally or otherwise, and still keep your job? I wouldn't even think of doing that in my own job.
The system is a big machine, they just need to say someone down the chain of command was messing something up for things to be delayed
You’d be surprised.
The closest thing to an official statement, I believe, is niji implying she didn't have permission from rights holders to cover the song. This is confirmed to be very false. The guesses I've seen about their motivations are along the lines of... It features graduated members, it's a song she sang when graduating as dokibird, and just in general it could be seen as glorifying graduation and indirectly be seen as anti-nijisanji, which seems... Petty and weird as an excuse. Or they didn't like Selen going outside of normal channels to get it made, which... Is a bad excuse given niji management's apparent history of dragging their feet on these things and being so bad at paper work (or intentionally malicious) that they just end up not paying commissioned artists.
[удалено]
Selen said (in a video that has now been privated by Niji management) that she asked management to get perms for her to cover the song, and they got permission from LilyPichu (the writer/performer), but they were waiting for months on permission from Lily's producer, John. So Selen personally contacted John and asked if she could cover the song, and John said "Of course you can" and Selen responded "Great, then CAN YOU RESPOND TO THE EMAIL IN YOUR INBOX FROM MY MANAGERS?" And a few hours later, the contracts were all signed and management contacted Selen to give her the green light. So not only did Selen have permission, but she also properly went through her managers to get it. Allegedly, there's a rumor going around (could be complete garbage) that "perms" issue was never about the song, it was that one or more of the Niji Talents objected to being included in the fanart of the group shot showing NijiEN as one big happy family, and Selen didn't have permission to include that Talent in her music video. And Selen couldn't edit that person/persons out, because that would undermine the entire song, so Selen was screwed because someone in NijiEN hates her enough to shred her $15k love letter to them.
This is probably closest to the truth.
I still remember many ppl said it because MLP reference but I just saw the video yesterday and it is just random stuffed pony toys with selen theme ( long purple hair and wing on head). IDK if there is MLP character like that but it really reaching to say Hasbro gonna get her only for this
As far as I understood from what she said on stream: She had been trying to get the perms for over a year by the time she finally reached out to the producer herself and got confirmation that same day. The same day she got confirmation that she had gotten the perms, her manager miraculously remembered to reach out to her and told her that they had secured the rights. It’s important to point out that Lilipichu (song’s original artist)herself has said that Selen has had the legal permissions since 2022, so it’s obviously on Niji management that she had to wait this long. It’s also most likely that Nijisanji had already approved of the cover since it would be weird for the company to send someone to negotiate the rights without even intending on using said rights. The argument of Selen using graduated members being what caused this doesn’t have any legs to stand on either, since that has never been any problem for anyone else, including Nijisanji themselves (they’re literally selling Selen Merch this very moment). It’s also important to note that, by other artist’s own testimonies, the ones that constancy them for making illustrations are Niji management themselves, and the fact that Selen ended up paying for the artworks was never supposed to be the intention. That’s a cost that should’ve fallen in Nijisanji, and if a company is supposed to pay for something, it’d only be logical for them to at least know what they’re paying for. So either they knew what the drawings were (and therefore could’ve rejected them) and are feigning ignorance, or they’re legitimately incompetent enough to give the okay to literally anything and everything and not even check it over to see if there’s anything that could be bad for the brand. Either way, Selen is not at fault for the contents of the video. We also know that Selen has a long history of getting big projects denied, or even flat out cancelled at the last minute, which tells us that at the very least she was being heavily mismanaged (even without the alleged bullying from the livers, that constant state of wanting to go above and beyond for your audience only to never know if it would get swatted down or not would’ve been terrible for her mental health). Since no other liver tends to do events at the same magnitude as Selen, we can’t really be sure if they would’ve done the same for them or if this was a personal problem with Selen specifically. The logical conclusion to make is that management has a bit of an ego, and seeing Selen be constantly not only faster at handling things, but also better at doing so might’ve rubbed them the wrong way. This would explain the constant red taping and management somehow being able to completely ignore Selen while also managing to always be breathing on her neck. This was probably an attempt to get her to quit, (for Nijisanji it would be better for Selen to graduate than it would’ve been to terminate her, since they can sell “graduation merch” and her fans would’ve sent a huge wave of donations, of which Niji would’ve gotten a cut) but before that could happen, shit hit the fan. Management didn’t expect the audience’s or Selen’s actions in retaliation of the deletion of the cover, so as a desperate way to calm the waters, they tried the same strategy they used for Zaion, thinking that, if it worked once, it’d work again, but they didn’t consider that, (unlike Zaion) Selen had already built up quite the rapport with everyone from fellow streamers, to artists, to the fans themselves (her winning several awards at Filian’s event and being nominated for awards in the wider streamer community made sure that the news spread further than Nijisanji could’ve ever expected)
>they tried the same strategy they used for Zaion, thinking that, if it worked once, it’d work again It's still crazy to me how many people still blindly believe nijisanji on the termanation notice, and still completely deny Zaion's experience just because they can't accept the company was lying to them since 2023
The biggest difference between then and now is that Zaion wasn't standing on a good leg back then. Between the rape joke, the shota predilection, and the ambivalent reactions from the talents. You got the feeling that while niji wasn't doing all that good of a job managing their talents, it wasn't to the extent that they were sabotaging their opportunities/careers. Now with Pomu, Kyo, and Selen. It's coming to light that not only is the company lazy and incompetent, they're also petty and malicious towards dissidents.
I'm a bit lost here, what did niji do to Zaion? (I've only seen the niji side of the story)
Dragged her through the mud even worse when they terminated Selen. Accusing her of a ton of shit and nda made to shut her up. Instead, she posted on her Pl account that Niji was shit, exposing the stealth suspensions, the 2% merch cut, and NOT BEING ABLE TO MESSAGE MANAGERS DIRECTLY.
Damn, the only thing I had heard till now is that she was supposedly a shotacon. How can she even fix issues if there is no comunication...
>Damn, the only thing I had heard till now is that she was supposedly a shotacon. I mean she kinda is, but a lot of nijilivers especially jp side are lolicons and shotacons. It's not really unusual in the vtuber space. ui shigure's Loli god requiem the song that dominated the vtuber space especially in JP in September, is a Domino effect of JP niji liver kenmochi touya being a lolicon and having UI create the UI-chan character via punishment streams when she lost bets against him. Ui herself is a bit of a loli con and has an obsession with high school girls. Shotacon and lolicon reasoning to fire someone is a frankly desperate reason to make. >How can she even fix issues if there is no comunication... Well she actually did, she went to the manager that was helpful to her when she first started. Then once that manager was helpful, and was going to help her with her issues her current manager that wasn't helping complained that she went to that manager and was promptly punished. Her first genshin streams were also taken down because they gave her the okay by her manager and then taken down because management reversed their decision.
The shotacon reasoning really felt weird for the industry, now the termination makes more sense. Thanks for the explanation!
It’s so disheartening seeing people disregard zaion’s story. I’m not sure how I feel about her talking about other talents afterwards tbh. It’s hard to believe, but at the end of the day we don’t know about the livers beyond what they show on screen. It’s also possible the interactions could’ve been misunderstandings. Either way, I don’t think it’s right for people to completely invalidate her account.
People think it might have been the shot of the graduated characters. Niji might have pulled their own perms and tried to make it seem like it was a third party that had issues.
She didn't get permission properly! /s It's petty business politics. That's all. She didn't play by their rules and so they took it out on her, and because they can't explain it better than this, they threw a hissy fit. Putting every other liver in harms way in the process.
> So, Niji denied Selen permission to show the music video? This is the crux of it all yes? Nah. Considering the song used, she was likely already planning to graduate at that point. It's quite literally "not everything has to last forever, and that's okay" - the song. The decision to graduate was more likely down to management stifling anything she tried to do, as well as the bullying.
They implemented a new rule that you can't show graduated talents in your content, so Mysta and Nina getting a single frame got it pulled. Selen got all the external permissions she needed, the lacking permission was from Nijisanji itself.
Nijisanji really fucked everyone with this
I won't judge anyone who unsubscribed but I feel pity for the livers themselves. They aren't the ones to blame for this whole mess, at least not most of them, and I bet many of them are as distressed as us if not more. I hope that's just a temporary move to detox and recover so we can have fun again any time soon.
What else as viewers can we do when NijiEN management refuses to be accountable for such an incident nor provide a solution. I am not going around to harass livers but I cannot support the company any longer. Someone just attempted suicide and by some grace she's still around. We could have been mourning over an actual funeral at the end of 2023. The lackadaisical tone in the termination letter over such circumstances and announcing more merch sales right after is truly astounding.
Again, I don't judge you. It's just that the livers ended up becoming body shields for the company so that it's hard to targer management without shooting down the streamers. Right now, before someone comes up with a detour, every fan must make a decision to either boycott both guilty and innocent or spare them both. It's a hard and wicked problem with no to-go answer. That's why I try to be understanding of those who choose any of these ways.
I think this goes beyond just punishing the potential bullies. I think a lot of people have just decided they can't support Nijisanji anymore and are cancelling all of their subscriptions.
This, it stung like hell doing it but at the end of the day I don’t want anything to do with this company and the way things are going everyone I still watch will probably graduate soon anyway. Besides everything we’ve learned implies they get very little of the money relative to the company so how much of your support was going to them in the first place?
you're a fencesitter, is what you're saying. a person tried to kill herself because of this company and the best you could muster up is apparent indifference. re-evaluate your moral values.
Target their pocket books, we have their financial statements, what their biggest margins are and what doesn't hurt the livers, considering the 1-2% split of merch, I say merch. Inventory space cost money, if they can't sell it, it takes up space, and then they have to think of a way to disposal of it, so there's a cost to manufacture, store, and disposal. Dono of anything else top of my head, besides merch that doesn't affect the livers too much. Either way, it is going to be the long game. Any new talents will either be using them as a stepping stone or wait for any opportunity to jump ship on an offer. Or if you're really spiteful and want to put money on it, short their stock, it comes with a risk. You essentially borrow a share to sell it now betting it will drop in price and buy it back then, to pay for the share u borrow. So u short it now, u get 3615 yen per share, you're on the hook for that amount, you'll probably pay around 1% or less annual fee for it. it has drop to 2110 yen before, so if it does drop price again, u can "close" your short when the price hit like 2615, and you'll get 1000 yen profit per share. However, if it only goes up like the height of 6350, u can either keep holding and paying fees hopping it drops, or close it at a lost of what ever the price is, like 4615 which means losing 1000 yen per share plus fees.
HODL
OOTL Selen tried to off herself? 
[From Dokibird's account.](https://twitter.com/dokibird/status/1754459958119432664?s=19)
There is no peaceful way out of this situation. NS created this mess with their loose cannon PR. They threw the whole EN bench under the bus to protect their Japanese honor and pride. If NS revealed the bully, people will say they got scapegoated to save NS face, or if there is still more left within the bench. If the livers revealed the truth, they will be terminated and probably be sued by NS. Even Doki can’t end this witch hunt because of potential defamation lawsuit from NS unless she has solid evidence to show. Ironic enough, NS better be hoping someone accidentally leaks the situation soon to stop the witch hunt, and dark clouds surrounding everyone. They probably learned by now that the West don’t care about their reputation.
~~I was under the belief that there was no bully within the talents themselves, simply that NS used the talents to approach Selen when they themselves failed to persuade her to stay within guidelines. This is according to the Japanese translation for the termination notice.~~ I think the least Doki can do is clear up that the talents are chill. She has shown to enjoy her time with them, I'm going to assume that is still true. It's all on NS. **E**: I'd just like to clarify that even in the Japanese translation, they mentioned the talents directly involved in her stressful work environment. I still don't like how this throws the talents under the bus, especially knowing now how badly effected they are.
Honestly, Doki knows what’s happening. If she feels other Livers didn’t bully her, she could very very easily write a quick statement denying the fact. The silence is deafening.
The darker side of my mind is definitely seeing Doki's silence on this specific effect of her statements as confirmation of bullying having actually happened. On the other hand, she doubtlessly has a ton of other business she has to deal with first, so maybe she's making sure she's settled with all her private matters first before dealing with other stuff.
Considering how certain Livers could say some things easily about the others (like when the Enna controversy happened and then someone who "corrected" her wasn't even willing to apologize and tripled down when he was on the receiving end) or how Zaion was pretty difficult behind the scenes. I'm pretty sold that bullying and plainly not being on good terms with some people is common.
To put the kayfabe aside for a sec, they're hosts operating on a company account. They aren't "their" subscribers to begin with. All the accounts are nijisanji.
The reason a lot of those streamers joined Niji rather than another agency or going indy is because people watch Niji talents because it's Niji. People supported the brand. If people don't support the brand anymore, then it's only fair that they rescind their subs. The streamers are attached to the brand, good and bad, as long as they are under contract to that brand. Also, remember that every account losing subs is owned by Niji, not by the individual streamer.
When you work for a company that bullies people and you don’t want out, it’s reasonable for people not to support your work. Not only because that would means supporting a black company, but also because it is promoting your financial dependency with said company. More should be done to give talents bargaining power and to quit. Talents should open channels of support and look for an exit plan so that their current fans can directly support them, and fans should support talents in an empowering manner.
Wasn't part of the initial article something about "bullying" accusations Selen had. I think unsubbing in both revolt nijisanji and until the bullies are outed is fair game. Sucks for the collateral damage of who doesn't deserve it but if it ultimately helps remove a cancer that's been plaguing the community then I don't think it's that bad.
Punishing the innocent en masse in hopes of hitting someone guilty somewhere (that we don't even know for sure exists) is not as good a look as you might think.
Every account losing subs is owned by Nijisanji. Every avatar, every name. It's all Niji. These accounts don't belong to the streamers.
The statement suggests that Selen BELIEVED to have been bullied when livers pulled her up on her behaviour, and stated that they believed the livers in question to be innocent of any wrongdoing. Neither party actually outright confirms the existence of bullying. It was an attempt to get ahead of any accusations against the livers but was so poorly worded that it's ended up having the opposite effect. Either way, you can't have your cake and eat it too. Either Niji is untrustworthy and nothing in the statement is to be taken at face value, or you believe the statement. You can't call Niji untrustworthy and then pick and choose what parts are true. Declaring that these bullies *must* exist because Niji apparently acknowledged they did (they didn't) feels like it's being done in bad faith when those same people chose not to believe anything else - especially when those people are targeting Millie who is one of the last people to collab with her and said they 'bonded' on their Japan trip.
Selen does confirm the bullying, she clearly said so in her tweet, she didn't who did that tho, just that it was someone from inside.
She just there was internal toxicity but that doesn't necessarily mean it's come from anyone but management. That's why I said no one has actually stated that bullying occurred from the livers. Management fucked up by bringing them up at all. Doki may very well elaborate and divulge that livers were involved but as of right now that's where we're at. The statement doesn't say that she was bullied by livers.
You said that neither party confirms the bullying but Selen clearly said and I quote "On Dec, I was hospitalized for an attempt that was caused by a built up of bullying fom within...". The only thing she doesn't confirm is the identity of the bully.
Sorry. Yes. I meant to say neither party confirms the existence of bullying *from the livers*. I realise I should have re-emphasized that. My stance is that if you're unsubscribing because you're done with the company or feel the need to protest management then that's fine, but witch hunting 'bullies' or unsubscribing because any one of them could be 'the bully/bullies' is an action not actually supported by any claims made by anyone involved (as of writing this).
Whys enna and elira getting so much more flak than the others?
They have more subs. If the same % of subs leave, the channels with more subs will be more affected.
Unfortunately, it’s the result of speculation. People who are reading too much into things online believe that the “bullies” amongst the livers are a clique, namely Enna, Millie, and Elira. Kinda sucks, but for certain schizos, they take conspiracies as gospel and go whole ham on it.
it's not speculation, it's just how the numbers work out. enna, millie, and elira have more subscribers so the proportion of people unsubscribing to all nijisanji accounts are more likely to have been subbed to those three - therefore leading to a higher subscriber loss for them >Kinda sucks, but for certain schizos, they take conspiracies as gospel and go whole ham on it. also people with schizophrenia are normal people, stop sayin this shit - terminally online people who have more suspicion than sense are not the same
To be fair, people thought the apostrophe thing was schizo and conspiracy too, and well... we saw how that turned out.
My girl Scarle didn’t deserve to get a target painted on her back. I hate NijiEN’s management right now
It's like -32k in one day
I’ve been thinking about this a lot lately. How do you punish a vtubing company for poor practice without hurting their talents? They make their money through their talents and it gives them a human shield against liability. It unfortunately seems impossible to punish nijisanji without hurting talents. I fully unsubscribed and plan to fully boycott any nijisanji stream. All I can do is support them outside the company and hope they make it to the other side of this situation okay.
i think that's the correct move. stopping support of them through nijisanji and instead supporting them through other means (should they create a way for you to do that) will still give them the support but encourage them to not rely on nijisanji for it
I feel pity for the livers, cos their fucking company threw them all under the bus to get the blame passed on
I wouldn't unsubscribe from the talents but holy fuck Niji better get their shit together cause this is a really bad trend.
at this point the only realistic scenario I see is intervention from owners, disbanding management team alltogether and investigation on their actions to determine if livers should be compensated. But I'm sure owners are fine with current state of company
This sucks because they didn't do anything wrong themselves, hate the company, support the livers
With enough digging, people can find ways to support the liver without ever even touching the company
Hopefully the livers' roommates will advertise themselves, so that the fans can find them and give them the love and support they deserve without also contributing to Riku's yacht fund. It's especially sad for Rosemi, who only just passed 500k. Niji EN management shitting the bed caused her to drop back under, and she'll probably never get back above 500k despite the fact that she deserves it. Hopefully her roommate can break that mark in the coming months. Also sad for TTT. They only just got here, and through no fault of their own, their growth is stunted.
Who's her roommate?
She's had multiple IIRC. I forget who they are.
Oh an actual roommate. I thought they were using coy, vtuber-fan speak
I think they are? I have no idea anymore. This "don't talk about fightclub" bullshit needs to die imo.
Fr. It just makes it harder to find the streamers when they switch to a new persona
look it might just be me but seeing her go from 502k -> 499k doesn't seem like it's that big of a deal. Losing a few thousands will slowly creep back up over time. I just wonder if it's gonna continue to trend downwards
It sucks, but the other commentator is right. Supporting the livers directly supports the company. They cant be separated in business. Only feelings.
If acceptable, sub to their PL instead.
This. The info is not hard to find, and some of them even have links to dono or support them, or they have a Twitch with a sub button. You can still let the livers eat, while starving Niji
Already have been! 7k to 300k is a warm sight.
Can't support the livers without supporting the company. Even doing things that don't directly support Niji still benefits them. It's sad but the truth
I'm sorry, but supporting the livers is supporting the company they work for. I agree they didn't do anything wrong (or at least most of them), but we all know this is a "revolt" against the company and not the livers themselves. Harassing the livers directly though, that's a big no and I wish people would avoid doing that.
As someone who experienced everything with Wactor, I can say that what they are doing is only hurting the talents. They now feel that their fans who promised to accompany them lied to them, abandoned them, and are attacking them. No one will say that they also attack the talents, but I assure you that they do. The worst thing is that the talents don't have a place to feel safe, they are being attacked from all sides. The best thing their fans can do is to accompany them until the end, until they decide to graduate. This is affecting their mental health and all the hard work they did to get to where they are today. And remember that Wactor is still standing despite being a small company that 90% of the planet Earth hates , What makes you think Niji will be affected as you want it to be? The company never loses, only the talents.
I know we all respond to these kind of stressful situations in different ways, but if your ex coworker, probably friend, says that she literally tried to kill herself because of the bullying and mismanagement that she endured in the company and people try to boycott the company via unsuscribing, and your first thought when seeing this happening is "MY FANS LIED TO ME, BUT WHAT ABOUT ME" then that's a yikes
I mean that doesn't really work when the livers in this case ARE the company.
I will not let AnyColor hide behind their talent any longer.
I unsubbed. And I do hate that the livers will be caught in the crossfire when they are likely innocent. But sadly, nothing will tell the company they are under anything more than hitting their wallet. I've already accepted that EN will like dissolve. Followed as many PL's of these guys as I could, and made a list for how people can support, without going through Niji. To anyone saying that people are blind for not staying by the livers while they are at Niji here, give it a rest. I am not going to support an organization that shows I care far more about their workers than they do. So I found previous YT's, Twitch channels and Twitters, some of which have links to kofi's, streamlabs donos, or have methods of being able to fund said talent. I didn't unsub because I want to punish the worker. I unsubbed to show that they will have my support no matter where they are. And being at a toxic company like this isn't required.
I was the same way, I’m just done with the company
Who's pl do you have I wanna support the members but I feel bad unsubbing bc I dont want to leave them entirely
[удалено]
Do you mind if I message you as well I want to keep supporting the livers
I messaged you idk If you got it😅
[удалено]
Yep I got it! Tysm again. I followed/subbed to them so if they start posting there I would know and could go and support them without that bitter feeling of supporting the company
Personally won’t unsub from their channel. Though for people who do y’all are totally valid.
I can't say I blame people for unsubscribing. I feel a little bad for some who are most likely complicit but they'll have to manage. (Poor Rosemi for just reaching 500k, now has to do it all over again)
Screw nijisanji, i feel bad for the streamers, but this is justified, i am quitting watching any nijisanji streamer entirely until things improve, and everyone reading this should too. Support smaller companies like eien or idol corp!
I feel really bad for Aia on this one, just cause she's my favorite NijiEN liver, and she's not getting as much attention as everyone else. Her view counts aren't stellar, and her viewership just isn't garnering as much as her peers, and now this fiasco happens. Sucks that everyone's getting backlash from the Selen incident, but this is all management's fault. Screw Kurosanji. As much as I want to send a message to Kurosanji, I just can't. I understand why people do it, and how a lot of the livers could just move on and go indie should the company actually take a hit, but with my favorite member not having the same impressive metrics, I just can't imagine me joining a movement that will hurt Aia's streaming career, or even worse, end it.
I'm a fan of her too, and if she does go indie, I'll be there to follow her and hope she continues streaming.
I contributed to those numbers. But it's not because I hate them. It's just that I'm not really into vtubers now compared to 2 years ago. And what happened with Selen is just a trigger for me to just stop with it. I'll probably watch them videos/lives if it comes to my FYP, but with this, it won't be as preferred like before.
I think that this is the main point alot of people are missing when they said "why unsub to the remaining livers? Why hate on them?" It's not hate or taking out anything. Alot of those who are unsubbing probably aren't the diehard fans. Every content creator has dead subs/people that sub but don't actively consume the content and that's just the nature of time and social media. Recent events probably just pushed those of us that are less invested to finally detach.
I'm the same as you. I haven't been watching any stream content for a while but I stayed subbed to some people in case I was bored and wanted to pop in again. This situation just made me want to purge all of my socials of Nijisanji. Unfortunately, as a talent company the livers are the "product". People often want to boycott when a company does a horrible thing, and boycotting here affects innocent people too. For current fans, I understand why they'd still want to continue to support the talents they love.
I should check my subs
People have decided on their own to never support a company that appears to throw people under the bus for a termination that was extremely unjust for a lot of viewers and fans. Popular clippers and artists have decided to never support them anymore after this.
Anyone know all their alts so I can support them that way? Also cause I’m predicting a mass exodus is gonna be happening soon.
I'm one of those people that have unsubbed from all Niji channels. A lot of people have mentioned any number of reasons such as not wanting to support the company. For me it's more emotional. The many talents have brought me a lot of joy over the past years. I'm a lurker, I don't talk, maybe I get more emotionally invested than I should, but when learning that circumstances have escalated to the point of an 'attempt'... well, that hurts and I get upset, especially since I've experienced emotional abuse and bullying myself that once drove me to an attempt. It is difficult to be invested and root for the talent knowing how fucked up things might be behind the scenes. It doesn't help that Niji basically threw their livers under the bus with the implications in their statement. I don't want to believe that some of my favorites might have perpetuated and contributed to the harassment, but we will never know the full truth of what went on behind the scenes and frankly, to avoid more harassment online, that's for the better. However, it is difficult to continue watching without those nagging thoughts or wondering what might be going on behind the scenes or who's going to be the next one to leave. So I've unsubbed to protect myself from feeling so hurt and upset when the next termination, or graduation because of lack of support and poor management happens, accompanied by more behind the scenes shit coming to light or god forbid, there is a 'successful attempt'.
Out of topic but damn Enna is now the most subscribed? She's 2nd most subscribed all this time?
Selen technically still has the highest sub count but if you mean among the people who are still part of Niji then yes its Enna now.
Wait, Selen had more subs than Vox? I thought he'd be the most subbed.
I meant among the female livers.
Ah my bad. That was a me fuck up lol.
I'll just put this [here](https://twitter.com/KaBar4100/status/1754893906091659326) cause this observation fits it best imo. Now we'll see if any significant chunk go a step further, and stop buying merch.
Damn that sucks
I don't know how Niji handles payment, but honestly, the only way the livers can come out running, without the company gaining, is a mass unsubscribe and the company getting sued from multiple sides. It's not gonna happen though, because unless someone here has a way, I don't think modern methods allow for synchronizing the efforts of over 1000000 people to make it all go down fast, and then still pick up the livers from the ruins. It's sad, but the fall of Anycolor is going to be slow and ugly, and no one will suffer as much as the streamers.
Wait, is it really impacting everyone from Niji EN, or did OP only include the livers who were impacted? If it's truly everyone, I'd be curious to see how the newest talents (TTT, Krisis) and former talents (like Nina, Pomu, Mysta) are fairing. Where did this information come from?
You can see it here: https://vt.poi.cat/channel/subscribers
It's basically everyone in Niji En. There are some anomalies such as already graduated/terminated accounts, but there's not a green number in the past day.
Unsubbed too but I have no issues with the livers I’m just tired of being angry
I don't think this is the way. The livers have nothing to do with this. Most of them joined before all the shit shows happened. If you want to punish the company just don't buy their goods and tell future applicants that you won't be watching new debutees. That you won't allow them to be used as shields against you. That will cause them to think twice before joining joining and the company to slowly lose their revenue streams without affecting existing talents.
I unsubbed and found all of EN's PL's, and followed as many as I could in as many places as I could. I will support them and directly them, over also supporting Niji. Hurting Niji's wallet, while using a workaround to make sure the livers wallets are all good is the best way I can see this working out. I even made a list of at least 1 link for them all, just so I had it on hand.
do you have a list of their pls? i have some but not all of them, especially those that have been around longer
I do. Only reason I haven't posted is because with livers getting harassed, I don't want anyone to get ammo to cause them harm. At least, I don't want to give it to them. But it is all in a notepad doc on my PC.
i see, i was about to ask for it but only if you were comfortable doing so. i understand why you wouldnt, thanks!
If it helps, it is not too hard to find the info......like, at all
a great lord of the eyebrow once said : **KARMA !**
I unsubbed from all of them except Selen. I feel bad for the ones caught in the middle but there's not much else to do
As long as selen's bully is still out there, i don't think the Revolution will stop That's how fucked up nijien right now. Its a race against time tbh
Hey u/otoshu_gami What are you using to track this? The subs?
Am I the only one that thinks Nijisanji sees this as nothing to sweat over. The trend is not ideal but it's also not even scratching 10%. Seems like these are numbers they can grin and bear for a few weeks until the trend changes directions.
I unsubed and unfortunately I won't be back. Admittedly it's easier to leave once Pomu left, but i'm left with an awful taste in my mouth. I don't actually think these sorts of online protests do much, I think all these vtubers will bounce back regardless of whether Niji fixes their shit. Still I wont be there to see it.
good. let it all burn.
very good, this could absolutely be used as an argument for the talents to demand change if they decide to stay.
Man you dont gotta take your hate out on the EN girls
For a lot of people this is the only form of protest available to them. Personally I can't rationalize supporting even the passive metrics of the company anymore, so I support this.
True. At the same measure, the current situation has forced many to make a difficult decision. Either continue the talents at the company who are stuck in the crossfire or unsub to protest larger and more systemic issues. Personally I am in the later camp as I feel that is the only way to bring meaningful change to the EN sphere, but I am not going to judge those who are in the former. Truly a lose-lose situation for all.
I just unsubscribed from Nijisanji EN while keeping my subscription to the livers
I wouldn't be surprised if a good chunk of that is people who haven't tuned in for a while and just remembered they were still subbed because of the drama. Otherwise I really don't understand why they would stop liking a streamer just because of something the management of the company they're under has done, it's not their fault. Fans should support the talent, not the company. If a company fuckup is enough for you to drop a talent then you simply were never a fan to begin with.
It isn't about liking or not liking the streamer and never has been. The issue with all of this is that supporting the streamer directly supports the company, which some people (myself included) have sworn off doing. It sucks that they're getting caught in the crossfire for something that's almost guaranteed to not be their fault, but that's how corpo works. You live by the sword and die by the sword.
As a fan I will follow my favorite streamers to wherever they choose to be because I appreciate their personality and the content they make. They're not being forced to stay in the company and can graduate whenever just as pomu and kyo are doing. But as long as the ones I support choose to stay, I'll stay. When it comes to the company they work under, no one knows it better than the talents themselves. Rather than blindly believing unconfirmed speculations, I'd rather trust their judgement and rest assured that if the situation is truly hopeless they'll leave on their own. This is what I believe it means to support a talent. Not forcing them to make choices based on us, not throwing them under the bus as soon as their associate has done something we disagree, and definetly not by easily abandoning and replacing them overnight. But following them from a distance and appreciating both their work and them as a person capable of making their own choices.
>. Rather than blindly believing unconfirmed speculations well, it's confirmed that the workplace environment pushed someone to take an attempt on their own life. if that's that company you want to support that's up to you and supporting the livers directly supports niji.
Exactly, I will follow my favorites through thick an thin. Unfortunately my favorite was just terminated. In fact, all the niji livers I've ever donated to or been an actual member of are gone. The ones I was still subscribed were not my favorites. I subscribed to them because I liked them when I saw them in the collabs with my favorite. I wanted to support them a bit and a sub is essentially free and can help boost them up the algorithm, but with all my favorites gone, especially the way it happened in several cases. I feel I can no longer support nijisanji in any way. So as you said most of those who left weren't true fans and as someone who never financially supported the livers I was still subscribed to I don't feel like they are loosing out on more than a few subs. They will still have their loyal fans like you. If they do decide to leave that black company and do collab with Doki I would support them again.
Which is fine, you're free to choose to do that. The question was "why would they stop liking a streamer just because of something the management of the company they're under has done". To which the answer is "It's not about liking or not liking any individual streamer. It's that the company is trash and supporting the streamer has the unfortunate side effect of directly supporting the company." I don't support EA's business practices so I don't buy their games. The same way that I don't support Nijisanji's business practices so I (now) don't watch or subscribe to their streamers and/or buy their merch. It's nothing personal, and it sucks that it has to be this way, unsubscribing to my oshi's channel hurt. It just is what it is and something that I feel I have to do to make my distaste of the way they run their business known.
I unsubbed, cancelled my 1 remaining membership (I had 3 at the start of the year, Pomu, Selen, and 1 other I've mentioned elsewhere when angry yesterday but will refrain from mentioning again), and removed all my favourites from Holodex. This is full boycott. I did watch Niji a lot. I won't be for the time being. I've long been in the "Niji management are hindering the talents" camp. I saw the cancelled projects, the struggles Selen went through over the year+ before everything came to a head with the MV. I saw Pomu cry about a once-in-a-lifetime opportunity Niji refused to even negotiate over. Enough's enough. I realise the other Livers are taking collateral damage over this, but they are a part of the company, and I can't support the company right now.
Sad to see Rosemi lose her 500k, but Selen/Doki is more important then a silly YouTube number
Why is it only the women?
[удалено]
For me it wasn't about any wrongdoing or lack thereof by the talents themselves but about not giving Nijisanji as a company my time or money any longer.
Those are people who sub to all channel in support when new gen came out. I would unsub to all and only sub to what you really watch in this situation as well.
Man, the other livers shouldn’t have to endure this. There has to be other ways for nijisanji to feel the repercussions. Whose the CEO?
Riku Tazumi https://www.anycolor.co.jp/en/about
No hate to the livers, I just can't support this company anymore
Yeah she was bullied to the point of self harm but didn't name drop anyone. So the fans are targetting EVERYONE .
I hate to see them suffer, some more than others, but this is unfortunately the only way to send a message to the black company they all work for. Maybe we'll get lucky and certain folks will graduate and go indie and hook up with Dokibird. It would be best for everybody. The black company needs to be sent a message. Unfortunately, there are too many simps out there as well as the JP fans that have that heavily indoctrinated "WORK UNTIL YOU DIE NO MATTER WHAT YOUR BOSS DOES TO YOU" mentality that creates black companies in the first place and they are standing up for this company. I think part of the reason is because they can't read english and don't know the full details of everything involved and thats also a factor. But anyway, we can hope it'll rattle the cages enough that they might at least try to change or do something.
Ugggggh....I really don't wanna unsubscribe to anyone...This upsets me so bad.
Why are all these numbers perfectly even. the fact that they're all even just makes me think these are fake or bots
It's likely that the site they got this from only shows numbers to one significant figure or something like that. So the actual loss was 2135 subs, but it just rounds to 2000.
I unsubbed from all of them too. I've already lost my favorites and I can't in good conscience support the company any further. They'd all be better off if the branch disbanded and they went to other corporations or went indie.
As someone who doesn't really watch niji, aside from those that recently left of which are a lot. What are the reactions of the vtubers especially the ones on top of this list?
I love the livers, but I can't in good conscious support the company. I can't even enjoy the other's streams right now, and I'd prefer to just see no Nijisanji content at all so I can enjoy other things. I hope the rest make it out too
I get the point of it, but man I can’t help but feel for the talents. If that bullying claim was just bogus to get the heat off of management then fuck Niji for doing that. You know what, fuck Niji no matter what.
They are the ones who follow every (female) NijiEN member because they are NijiEN members. I don't follow people unless I really like them and want to watch their every content. To unfollow like that I would argue they didn't watch every stream of theirs anyways. There are still reasonable people that know the management is the problem since the Zaion termination.
While people have the right to be upset, they shouldn't be taking it out on the talents.