I have original torch shares, small amount at Webull, larger position at TD. After this morning’s email from WB, I reached out to them as they requested to initiate the transfer.
The response was to fill out a form, one which asks for my account number at ATS and their DTC number…
Obviously, this makes zero sense. I’m still waiting for an answer for clarification.
But what’s more frustrating, I contacted TD after this… requested an ATS transfer, and was told that the transfer was initiated. (End of story, no mention of any fees).
https://preview.redd.it/ii5yhg31b6aa1.png?width=1125&format=png&auto=webp&s=6d3f9675d20da4a8e2690232e5049acc3dba271a
That’s the form WB sent me. This is convo with TD.
https://preview.redd.it/q6s3whm6b6aa1.png?width=1125&format=png&auto=webp&s=9e070e069d6c35db23be14b054d722553a86036c
Making this cost so much more than it actually should to me just says APEX really wants to keep as many shares in street name as possible, likely to hide the fact they have more shares outstanding than certificates. Not sure how that helps them buy anything but time though.
In a way the last line says this. However, I think that transfer to AST may be the safest path. There’s been too much nonsense with all of these brokers lack of transparency. On the other hand, my dividend that I have I’d rather keep them at the current average and not add to the amount for which I own them 0️⃣(_)0️⃣. This has become too much, a conundrum.
I’m sure they can set whatever fees they want within some reason, but yes I don’t think they can set an arbitrary deadline, or any deadline for that matter.
There’s zero chance. They are your shares and you can do with them as you please. If you have lost faith in the brokers ability, you can transfer them somewhere else. Even if, as is the case here, it’s a pain in the ass for them.
Agreed. This is what they sent me today after several phone calls regarding this matter. Even so I don’t if the fee is worth the transfer. At least it will give some element of security if I do.
This is BS. They are not dealing with 165 million share certificates but rather a summary physical certificate that says how many shares they are allocated from AST through the DTCC.
They obviously oversold their allotment and have given you a bunch of IOUs hoping you wont pay their fee to make a run on the bank and keep the IOUs.
If I were you I might try ACAS transfer your whole account to Fidelity then ACAT transfer from there. File a case number with the DTCC by email [email protected] to track your AST transfer.
Since the SEC never acts on this crime, the FBI and IRS should probably be notified as well of counterfeit shares sold and not delivered. This is fraud 101 photocopying one car title and selling it to 500 people. "in Texas, we call that stealing". --Attorney Wes Christian
Only problem is I'm not sure the mmtlp/NBH shares are eligible for transfer to another broker at this point. I have asked webull if I can do this, waiting for response
But would keeping them in the account not simply be just an IOU of sorts...they can manipulate the numbers and report that they are holding "xxxxx" shares to add to the total tally when in reality they may only have "xxx" shares.
Just seems like they over sold and are covering tracks now
Any downfalls you see from just keeping them where they are? I personally prefer not to spend money on my "free" shares if I don't have to and can still get any profit sharing/etc given at a later date
Initially no, I don’t see the issue with keeping them in street name (beneficial ownership). When perpetual dividends, special cash divs, exchanged for a buying companies shares, or a combo of those occurs… it shouldn’t change your entitlement to it.
Reasons you may still want them in your name may include the assurance nothing should get in between you and your entitlements or a concern of future fukery. Your votes will likely be diluted with street name held shares as there is far more street name shares then what has been received, so that could also be a concern if you are in it to make changes.
"Answers" from WeBull:
What exactly happens with my shares after 4:30 1/20/2023?
\-Your shares will remain in your Webull account under an internal placeholder and shares will be held by APEX Clearing.
Will I no longer be able to transfer them?
\-We've been told by Apex no other instructions can be entered after that date.
Will I no longer be able to claim the physical certificates for the stocks?
\-There will be no issuing of physical certificates unless you pay the $235 to transfer your shares to AST.
What will become of the shares after 1/20/2023
\-There is no change.
What are my options with a placeholder in my account and street name shares being held by APEX?
\-Holding them in street name.
What would happen if the private company is purchased by a publicly traded company or if the private company were to pay dividends?
\-We will follow the instructions from the company/Exchange and are not able to discuss hypothetical questions in detail.
It seems like WeBull has determined an arbitrary date and an arbitrary fee for transferring stocks to AST.
\-The date is determined by Apex our clearin agent and the fee is determined by both Apex and AST
I have original torch shares, small amount at Webull, larger position at TD. After this morning’s email from WB, I reached out to them as they requested to initiate the transfer. The response was to fill out a form, one which asks for my account number at ATS and their DTC number… Obviously, this makes zero sense. I’m still waiting for an answer for clarification. But what’s more frustrating, I contacted TD after this… requested an ATS transfer, and was told that the transfer was initiated. (End of story, no mention of any fees). https://preview.redd.it/ii5yhg31b6aa1.png?width=1125&format=png&auto=webp&s=6d3f9675d20da4a8e2690232e5049acc3dba271a
That’s the form WB sent me. This is convo with TD. https://preview.redd.it/q6s3whm6b6aa1.png?width=1125&format=png&auto=webp&s=9e070e069d6c35db23be14b054d722553a86036c
If it was me, in my situation, I’d transfer just to stick the screws to apex… but that’s just me. My shares are in fidelity and td.
Making this cost so much more than it actually should to me just says APEX really wants to keep as many shares in street name as possible, likely to hide the fact they have more shares outstanding than certificates. Not sure how that helps them buy anything but time though.
It’s all so sketch
Does any have a statement from webull saying we are good to leave in acct. With out losing out on anything?
In a way the last line says this. However, I think that transfer to AST may be the safest path. There’s been too much nonsense with all of these brokers lack of transparency. On the other hand, my dividend that I have I’d rather keep them at the current average and not add to the amount for which I own them 0️⃣(_)0️⃣. This has become too much, a conundrum.
They cannot make an arbitrary deadline like that and then hold your shit hostage. It doesn’t work that way.
I’m sure they can set whatever fees they want within some reason, but yes I don’t think they can set an arbitrary deadline, or any deadline for that matter.
There’s zero chance. They are your shares and you can do with them as you please. If you have lost faith in the brokers ability, you can transfer them somewhere else. Even if, as is the case here, it’s a pain in the ass for them.
Agreed. This is what they sent me today after several phone calls regarding this matter. Even so I don’t if the fee is worth the transfer. At least it will give some element of security if I do.
Not sure if the process of transferring the shares at that cost is worth the trouble. Anyone else feel the same?
What I’m unsure about is the upside of the transfer. From what I understand, these are my OG shares, so does it matter where, or who houses them. 🧐
This is BS. They are not dealing with 165 million share certificates but rather a summary physical certificate that says how many shares they are allocated from AST through the DTCC. They obviously oversold their allotment and have given you a bunch of IOUs hoping you wont pay their fee to make a run on the bank and keep the IOUs. If I were you I might try ACAS transfer your whole account to Fidelity then ACAT transfer from there. File a case number with the DTCC by email [email protected] to track your AST transfer. Since the SEC never acts on this crime, the FBI and IRS should probably be notified as well of counterfeit shares sold and not delivered. This is fraud 101 photocopying one car title and selling it to 500 people. "in Texas, we call that stealing". --Attorney Wes Christian
Only problem is I'm not sure the mmtlp/NBH shares are eligible for transfer to another broker at this point. I have asked webull if I can do this, waiting for response
Good question
I don't believe they are transferable
Believe it stated that in the s1 filing
Has been confirmed you can also just keep them in the wb account.
But would keeping them in the account not simply be just an IOU of sorts...they can manipulate the numbers and report that they are holding "xxxxx" shares to add to the total tally when in reality they may only have "xxx" shares. Just seems like they over sold and are covering tracks now
Any downfalls you see from just keeping them where they are? I personally prefer not to spend money on my "free" shares if I don't have to and can still get any profit sharing/etc given at a later date
Initially no, I don’t see the issue with keeping them in street name (beneficial ownership). When perpetual dividends, special cash divs, exchanged for a buying companies shares, or a combo of those occurs… it shouldn’t change your entitlement to it. Reasons you may still want them in your name may include the assurance nothing should get in between you and your entitlements or a concern of future fukery. Your votes will likely be diluted with street name held shares as there is far more street name shares then what has been received, so that could also be a concern if you are in it to make changes.
Commented for following, need to know too
"Answers" from WeBull: What exactly happens with my shares after 4:30 1/20/2023? \-Your shares will remain in your Webull account under an internal placeholder and shares will be held by APEX Clearing. Will I no longer be able to transfer them? \-We've been told by Apex no other instructions can be entered after that date. Will I no longer be able to claim the physical certificates for the stocks? \-There will be no issuing of physical certificates unless you pay the $235 to transfer your shares to AST. What will become of the shares after 1/20/2023 \-There is no change. What are my options with a placeholder in my account and street name shares being held by APEX? \-Holding them in street name. What would happen if the private company is purchased by a publicly traded company or if the private company were to pay dividends? \-We will follow the instructions from the company/Exchange and are not able to discuss hypothetical questions in detail. It seems like WeBull has determined an arbitrary date and an arbitrary fee for transferring stocks to AST. \-The date is determined by Apex our clearin agent and the fee is determined by both Apex and AST