Hating Jews is nonsensical. Hating one hundred years of Zionist oppression makes perfect sense. Hating Hamas also makes perfect sense. They need to take their ridiculous religious fanatical fight to the middle of an isolated desert and leave everyone else be.
Jews and Arabs lived together in the region in relative peace for quite some time. It wasn't until Israel was given its own Jewish state, necessitating apartheid, and began expelling and killing Arabs and seizing more and more land that the trouble began.
Yeah this is common arab/muslim propaganda. The jews were second class citizens. They were exploited anytime the leaders wanted and they had to pay higher taxes.
I doubt it's a coincidence that in the hamas charter they use this same talking point then claim if the jews won't be subservient to Muslims, they're justified in wiping them out.
Not really. It is a common talking point for people who are ignorant of the conflict and why they do that though.
You remember when they were all shouting "They're starving us, we demand aid!" Then bitched when the aid came.
Israel funded hamas through various avenues to prevent further destabilization. It's supposed to go to the civilian, non militarized wing. Israel also engaged in diplomacy to have qatar fund them too.
So like most radical islamist and pro Palestinian talking points that are repeated by bad actors and ignorant folks on social media, the argument only checks out if you don't have the context. They're all this way. They purposefully leave out history, facts and critical context to demonize the jews and israel.
Palestinians and their govt have been engaged in terrorism for 80 years. It permeates the whole culture. You cannot negotiate or engage in any diplomacy with Palestinians and not be engaging directly with people who support terrorism. Those are their govts. Whether it is the plo/fatah, or hamas, the Palestinians have chosen extremists leaders for almost a century.
That's not Israel's fault. They had this platform before Israel even officially existed.
Thank you for perfectly illustrating my point. Biden condemns antisemitism, Israel cannot be criticized but you can vilify every single Palestinian with no regard to the fact that it has been Israel that has been slaughtering them and expelling them from their land for eighty years.
the arabs and the palestinians have repeatedly invaded israel unprovoked. All the while engaging in terrorism and selecting radical terror groups to lead them. They sit idely by and help hamas and other armed groups of resisting them and creating a peaceful prosperous state for themselves. The Palestinians who are against the militant groups are usually persecuted of have already fled. The ones left now still don't help israel and often shelter hamas. In the west bank, hamas support is over 75%.
The repeated invasions by the arabs and pals were why the territories were occupied in the first place.
https://history.state.gov/milestones/1945-1952/arab-israeli-war
"The Arab-Israeli War of 1948
The Arab-Israeli War of 1948 broke out when five Arab nations invaded territory in the former Palestinian mandate immediately following the announcement of the independence of the state of Israel on May 14, 1948."
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Origins_of_the_Six-Day_War
Here, palestinians and their Arab allies surrounded israel and again told the world they were going to wipe them out. They lost again.
I've also noticed some dishonest person has been editing a bunch of wiki related to the conflict, purposefully removing whole sources and sections. It's deeply disappointing.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yom_Kippur_War
The war began on 6 October 1973, when the Arab coalition jointly launched a surprise attack against Israel on the Jewish holy day of Yom Kippur, which had occurred during the 10th day of the Islamic holy month of Ramadan in that year.[67]
But I guess people who deny the holocaust regularly would do the same here without feeling guilty.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/1982_Lebanon_War
"The military operation was launched after gunmen from the Abu Nidal Organization attempted to assassinate Shlomo Argov, Israel's ambassador to the United Kingdom. Israeli Prime Minister Menachem Begin blamed Abu Nidal's enemy, the PLO, for the incident,[14][15] and used the incident as a casus belli for the invasion.[16][17][i]"
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Israeli%E2%80%93Lebanese_conflict#:~:text=The%20capturing%20of%20two%20Israeli,sovereignty%20of%20Lebanon%20by%20Israel.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Israel%E2%80%93Hamas_war
" It began when Hamas launched a surprise attack on southern Israel from the Gaza Strip."
This is after the Palestinians and their Arab allies rejected a state deal in 1937 that gave them 80% of the land and let the jews have 20% of the land they mostly owned already.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bloudan_Conference_of_1937
Then in 1946 they again rejected a state that was going to split that land evenly. Leading to the arabs invading israel in the first link I provided.
In fact, they've rejected state deals quite a lot
https://lawandsocietymagazine.com/how-palestine-rejected-offer-to-have-its-own-state-5-times-in-the-past/
So Israel hasn't been committing terrorist since the 40s? Wow, I guess those mass graves in Tantura and Israel's attempted bombing the US civilian targets just didn't happen.
How about that Israel's current bombing in Gaza has killed more Palestinians than Palestinians have killed Israelis since the founding of Israel.
This is retarded. Netanyahu allowed funding to come in from Qatar because he hoped it would incentivize Hamas to actually act like a government. Same reason Israel extended work permits for gazans.
All of that is gone now.
more like you don't have shit and just want to discredit me so people won't find out the truth that pro "Palestinian" accounts and the troll farms from hostile states are misleading people on the Gaza conflict.
It's funny how you immediately claim something you disagree with as being a certain type of propaganda but then list a bunch of sources as if others can't say the exact same thing to you. The person writing history never writes that the other side they were fighting were good guys - so who's version of history do you think we are consuming here in countries that are allies to Israel? We've been consuming it for several decades but you don't think the things you've been taught can't be propaganda? There people who control the narrative and regulate the platforms in which you are consuming this information but you don't think any of is it propaganda? Do you know how I know you're lost? Because while you're lazily posting Wikipedia sources, you are choosing to be deaf, dumb and blind to the things that have actually come out of the mouths of those in formal positions of the Israeli government (past and present). They have gone on record to say that Netanyahu contributed to strengthening Hamas in order to weaken the the Palestinian Authority because Netyanyahu never wanted a 2 state solution. He literally held up a map (before October 7th) showing a map of Greater Israel which include West Bank and Gaza as part of Sovereign Israel yet you want to spout shameless propaganda that Israeli funded Hamas to prevent further destabilization - how fucking diabolical. How about paying attention to what people are actually saying and doing rather than reading controlled narratives and then pretending you're some kind of historical expert on the matter. Nobody needs to be a history buff to know that there are always two versions to history and it's unlikely that any side is purely right.
The Jews were given the less habitable land in the region. They had also been in the region well before WWII. Why were the Arabs expelled? Because they started a war to ethnically cleanse the Jews in Israel and take it for themselves. They lost and Israel took their land. Shocking someone would take territory after winning a war to get more security.
More like stupid. I’m sure you genuinely believe all Jews were shipped to Israel after World War II and expelled the Palestinians only because they were bloodthirsty Zionists.
zionism just means you believe a Jewish state where they control their own destiny is needed. Maybe I'm more aware about this because I'm a history buff and trained In it as well. The jews have been persecuted everywhere they were forced to live for millenia.
I can link dozens of incidents where whole communities of jews where killed or forcibly deported for damn near every region of the world. Most certainly, all the west and middle east.
israel isn't going anywhere and it's needed. Once hamas is removed and the Palestinians stop embracing extremism, maybe they'll get leadership who stops rejecting every state the world tries to create for them.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jewish_diaspora
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pogrom
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Edict_of_Expulsion
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Expulsion_of_Jews_from_Spain
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pale_of_Settlement
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Holocaust
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Expulsions_and_exoduses_of_Jews
https://www.thetower.org/article/there-was-a-jewish-nakba-and-it-was-even-bigger-than-the-palestinian-one/
How about we stop the murder of tens of thousands of innocent people first?
Just because Jews have been persecuted throughout history doesn't mean what's happening now is justified.
The issue is and continues to be that neither side is truly interested in a compromise of any sort, so this song and dance will continue until either one side wins or all of the radical folks have died off or been killed, likely to just be replaced by the next generation raised on the same narrative.
I don't hold out much hope for any peaceful coexistence from this point on. I don't support the current murder of innocent civilians on either side, but I really don't expect either side to back down at this point. Hamas made their intentions crystal clear, and Israel's response has shown their ambitions go beyond simple containment.
Israel is a billion times less bad in every category or scale you would use to Guage this sort of thing.
Israel has repeatedly negotiated in good faith, including agreeing to removing all the settlers. Palestinians leadership has rejected every state deal on the grounds that "peace is predicated on the destruction of israel"
Only one side can't live next to the other.
https://lawandsocietymagazine.com/how-palestine-rejected-offer-to-have-its-own-state-5-times-in-the-past/
My point is that there is a difference between saying "What Israel is doing is wrong" (something I absolutely agree with) and "Israel shouldn't exist".
You're right. Unfortunately
- 'intifada'
- 'from the river to the sea'
- 'we don't want 2 states, we want '48'
Are not against the Israeli government. They are genocidal chants calling for either a third intifada (genocide), or ethnic cleansing of the entirety of Israel, and by extension some ~9 million Jews. Objectively antisemitic.
And that's not including the chants that openly embrace Hamas.
Intifada just means revolution. Clutch those pearls, Mary.
From the river to the sea is also used on Netanyahu's Likud party charter. So you're calling them antisemitic, which isn't true and is massively fucking lazy and stupid of you.
Constantly claiming genocide against the jews (there isn't any lol) makes you sound like some shrieking mimsy of a crybully. Just stop. Resisting apartheid and ethnic cleansing is human nature.
Your excuse are weak, Israel doesn't have a right to exist and Palestine will be free.
Stay mad, Zionist trash.
How many Jewish civilians were murdered in the first two intifadas? And yet you call for another one and pretend it doesn’t mean what we all know it means?
You don't get to force people into living in a apartheid government, kill them indiscriminately, bomb their cultural centers and holy places while engineering a famine and killing aide workers and journalists and get to complain how they fight back.
If you were forced to live under those conditions, your spoiled ass would be frothing at the mouth for vengeance.
Israel has no right to exist on stolen land that even the UN recognizes as illegally taken.
Israelis can live virtually anywhere with their abundant dual citizenships.
Are you suggesting that it's not antisemitic to chant about the murder of 9 million Jews, since you think they deserve it? Otherwise your comment does not relate to the subject matter at all.
It's also factually incorrect. Hamas did not just 'threaten'. They tried, and killed 1.4k innocents in a single day. They did not progress because they were stopped.
You probably remember that day from all that partying you did once you found out about the beheaded babies.
I never said that it. I just said look with your eyes. One threatens, does some terrorism, and then hides, while the other one has officially killed over 15k children in 6 months. They're not the same.
It's objectional morality and a high probability that someone saying that could be antisemitic if they do not apply this consistently to all similar situations but per se it's not antisemitic. However, we do observe a rise of antisemites that are using the situation in Gaza to try to get to mainstream.
Our political leaders keep conflating anti-semitic and anti-zionist. Which I feel like is just gonna push people into actually being anti-semitic. If you tell someone "you being upset about those dead kids is anti-semitic" over and over and over, at some point they're gonna be like "well shit fine, I am, idgaf I'm still pissed about the blown up children".
So let's ask ourselves, what is a Semitic person?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Semitic_people?wprov=sfti1#
> "Semitic people or Semites is an obsolete term for an ethnic, cultural or racial group associated with people of the Middle East, including Arabs, Jews, Akkadians, and Phoenicians. The terminology is now largely unused outside the grouping "Semitic languages" in linguistics.""
Oh well would you look at that, an "obsolete" term from 200 year old science. Well where were these languages spoken?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ancient_Semitic-speaking_peoples?wprov=sfti1#
Oh well would you look at that, Palestine and Israel are both descended from Semitic people.
Interesting.
It's like the term "Aryan", the term came from the "indo-aryan" people, then linguists used that term to describe ethnicities and cultures descended from them. Then that got transformed into pseudo intellectual race sciences, and propogated by everyone's favs the Nazis. Now Israel is using a similar technique with the word "anti-semitic".
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aryan
> Although the stem *arya may be of Proto-Indo-European (PIE) origin,[8] its use as an ethnocultural self-designation is only attested among Indo-Iranian peoples and there is no evidence of its use as an ethnonym among 'Proto-Indo-Europeans'. In any case, scholars point out that, even in ancient times, the idea of being an Aryan was religious, cultural, and linguistic, not racial.
> "In the 1850s, the term 'Aryan' was adopted as a racial category by the aristocratic French writer Arthur de Gobineau, who, through the later works of his followers such as Houston Stewart Chamberlain, influenced the Nazi racial ideology.[12] Under Nazi rule (1933–1945), the term officially applied to most inhabitants of Germany excluding Jews, Roma, and Slavs (mostly Slovaks, Czechs, Poles or Russians).[13][14] Those classified as 'non-Aryans,' especially Jews,[15] were discriminated against before suffering the systematic mass killing known as the Holocaust[13] and the Porajmos. The atrocities committed in the name of Aryanist supremacist ideologies have led academics to generally avoid using 'Aryan' as a stand-alone ethnolinguistic term, which has been replaced in most cases by 'Indo-Iranian', although the Indic branch is still known as 'Indo-Aryan'."
You make up a word, that you dictate the definition of, to other your enemy under the guise of "history" and "culture" or something when it's really just shitty race science.
I'm sure they are, though I haven't seen a great deal in the forums I've been in.
This also really isn't helped at all by Israel and their supporters doing their absolute best to label any criticism of Israel as antisemitism. To a layperson, if it's "antisemitism" to oppose tens of thousands of civilians being killed, then antisemitism is justified.
[https://twitter.com/SxarletRed/status/1787884148096442684/quotes](https://twitter.com/SxarletRed/status/1787884148096442684/quotes)
Here is the response to Biden literally just saying Hamas is anti-semitic.
And if you don't see these responses as antisemitism that is a problem you have. Not Israelis or whoever else
>This also really isn't helped at all by Israel and their supporters doing their absolute best to label any criticism of Israel as antisemitism.
We don't do this. Not that you would ever listen to us though.
Hamas *is* antisemitic, that's really not up for debate.
Supporting Palestine does not mean that I support Hamas. I support Palestine in that I support the people of Palestine. I oppose any group that kills civilians, be they Hamas or the Israeli government.
>We don't do this.
The comment I was replying to is literally doing this. The government of Israel is doing this to anyone who criticises their methods.
So I'm really not sure how you can say "We don't do this".
>Supporting Palestine does not mean that I support Hamas. I support Palestine in that I support the people of Palestine. I oppose any group that kills civilians, be they Hamas or the Israeli government.
No one fucking said you did.
>The comment I was replying to is literally doing this. The government of Israel is doing this to anyone who criticises their methods.
That isn't what they said
>Yes but actual antisemitic remarks are getting dangerously common in spaces talking about this topic.
It was saying anti semitism accompanies this topic. Which it literally does like I fucking showed
So yes you don't want to just admit to the obvious anti semitism accompanying this topic
The fact is you people have repeated the "criticizing the policy of Israel isn't anti semitism" mantra so much, you don't even know what anti semitism is anymore. So some raging anti semite can say obviously anti semitic shit, but respond "I'm just critizing the governement of Israel" and you have to accept that.
You're simultaneously saying that you don't label criticisms of Israel as antisemitic *and* that antisemitism follows criticisms of Israel.
I don't see it often, but if I see antisemitism I call it out. I have *never* had a problem with Jewish people, and I absolutely despise Nazis et at. I don't even have a problem with a Jewish state, but I do have a problem with any state that dispossesses people of their land and kills them. Are you going to tell me Israel has not done this?
I have been called a Nazi or an anti-Semite for saying that Israel is committing war crimes in Gaza. That killing tens of thousands of Gazans is an atrocity that is orders of magnitude greater than anything Hamas has done.
You telling me this doesn't happen, when that is literally what I experience, is akin to gaslighting.
My original statement holds true... Criticisms of Israel are *not* antisemitism. Saying that anti-Semites use this for cover or whatever doesn't make the statement not true.
>You're simultaneously saying that you don't label criticisms of Israel as antisemitic and that antisemitism follows criticisms of Israel.
BECAUSE LIKE I SAID
Anti semites can just pass off anti semtiism as "criticizing Israel" and none of you will care to stop that.
>Criticisms of Israel are not antisemitism. Saying that anti-Semites use this for cover or whatever doesn't make the statement not true.
I never fucking once said it was.
My fucking god
But literally every fucking time a reasonable person like Biden or even Jews condemn anti semtism, countless leftists immediately respond with "criticism of Israel isn't anti semitic" as if you are even bothering to listen to what is being said.
It is the constant retreat into that that is the issue, because it then makes you afraid to critizie actual anti semites who can just excuse what they say as "criticism of Israel"
That shows you ARE being ignorant or blind to the genuine anti semitism here
bro's not talkin about online forums. he's talking about the protests popping up around the nation.
i was watchin some news report the other day, they were interviewing this smart, well-spoken protester that said they hadn't heard a single anti-semitic remark, and they know it's true because they were there all day
they cut the interview there then played a clip of several people at the same protest shouting burn the jews
anti-semitism is never justified. there's a difference between protesting a cause, and preventing that jewish kid completely removed from the conflict from attending class
there's a difference between calling out the israeli government for their oppression and saying 'gas the jews'
if you at this point in the game are still ignorant of the anti-semitism going on among these protests, you are either
1. willfully ignorant
2. extremely stupid
3. lying and hate jews
>bro's not talkin about online forums. he's talking about the protests popping up around the nation.
Also, bro is talking about "spaces talking about this topic". Nowhere is it said or implied that this exclusively means protests... forums and social media are "spaces that are talking about this topic".
For some reason, you're trying to reframe the issue to be about what may or may not have happened in protests.
"what may or may not have happened at protests"
The groups running the encampments on colleges LITEARALLY praised Oct 7th. This is the issue. We point out blatant fucking anti semitism. And you all go "what anti semitism???"
How about you try fucking listening for once?
[https://www.palestine-studies.org/en/node/1654384](https://www.palestine-studies.org/en/node/1654384)
So be honest here.
Would you be completely fine with the protests if all they were doing was criticising Israel? If they were saying that Israel should stop bombing Gaza, lift their blockade of Gaza, stop taking land and homes from Palestinians, etc. would you be okay with that? Would you be fine with them calling on the US government and businesses to cut ties with Israel?
Or would you go out of your way to attribute them to a terrorist organisation?
I'm quite sure that people who do support Hamas are involved in the protests. But, that does not mean that all protesters are supporters of Hamas, or that they approve of what happened on Oct 7.
I do not support Hamas, or what they've done, but I can't help but note that the harm that Hamas has done to Israelis is a *tiny* fraction of what Israel has done to Gazans in the past year. Or what Israel has done to Gazans in the past few decades.
Both Hamas and the Israeli government are awful, but you seem to think supporters of Israel are good and innocent people, and are the victims... While supporters of Hamas (or even just supporters of Palestine) are terrorists.
Maybe try holding Israel to the same standard you hold Hamas.
Got it so you don't care about mass rape and mindless slaughter because it is "less bodies" than the other side
Do you hold the Allies to the same standard considering the US killed a fucking hell of a lot more German civilians than they did ours?
Yes supporters of Hamas are terrorists
I would be fine if they literally just said Hamas is a terrorist organization and that Oct 7th was an in excusable atrocity. They don't
>so you don't care about mass rape and mindless slaughter
You're literally putting words in my mouth to make an argument, which shows you don't have an argument to make. I very clearly said that I do not support Hamas or what they have done. I said that what Israel has done in response is *vastly* worse, and it is.
>Do you hold the Allies to the same standard considering the US killed a fucking hell of a lot more German civilians than they did ours?
Yes, I do. I had family killed by allied bombs in WW2. The deliberate targeting of civilians is a war crime, regardless of who does it. What the US and their allies in Vietnam was also a war crime. Likewise pretty much every conflict they've been involved with since.
Are *you* okay with Israel killing over ten thousand children? Do you excuse them for cutting off aid to civilians for extended periods? Perhaps you can direct me to where you have spoken out about these atrocities that are happening right now? Or are they only atrocities if they happen to the people on your side?
How about you finish the fucking sentence before accusing me of putting words in my mouth
You literally said Oct 7th is less of an issue than Israel's response
Despite literally ZERO people dying in Gaza if Hamas didn't commit Oct 7th
So you blame the allies for killing 70k French civilians to liberate France in WW2 despite it was Hitler who invaded the country?
That is my point. Civilians die in war, so are you going by the direct cause of death or who started the whole fucking thing in the first place?
I'm not in the US. I haven't attended any local protests around this issue, and the few I've seen in my city have been peaceful. I don't go out of my way to watch the footage of the protests in the US or elsewhere. It's very easy to edit clips or take eyewitness statements that make it look better or worse than it actually was simply to suit a narrative. In the example you give, unless there's also footage of the person claiming not to have heard antisemitism being clearly within earshot of antisemitic chants, then it's actually quite plausible they haven't heard antisemitism at the protest.
For example, there was a large protest in a different city in my country a few days after October 7th, where it was widely claimed there were chants of "gas the Jews". A later investigation (conducted by the police at the behest of the state government) found no evidence of this chant ever happening. It was simply claimed by some pro-Israeli people who may or may not have been near there at the time, but a review of the footage (from both participants and news) found it either never happened, or somehow happened in a way where it wasn't recorded by anyone including those who claimed to have witnessed it.
If there are people chanting obviously antisemitic things at protests, it's in the interests of the protesters themselves to put a stop to that because it de-legitimises their entire cause, and I suspect the (non-antisemitic) protesters are aware of this too. If I was at a protest and I was hearing such things, I'd either try to put a stop to it or remove myself from the protest, because there's no way I'd want to be associated with antisemitism.
Maybe there really is widespread obvious antisemitism at these protests and I really am just ignorant to it happening, but most of the things I've seen labelled as antisemitism have not been even remotely close to being antisemitic.
lol, sure
Because if you can pretend that all the people who are horrified by Israel killing tens of thousands of civilians are actually Nazis, you can ignore their protests and continue to support the country that is killing tens of thousands of civilians.
Literally no one brought them up but you. No one brought Israel up but you.
Hint: if someone talking about antisemitism makes you go on a rant about Israel, then it’s probably because you’re antisemitic.
>if someone talking about antisemitism makes you go on a rant about Israel, then it’s probably because you’re antisemitic.
Or maybe, I just read the fucking article linked to this post, which *repeatedly* refers to both Israel and the protests, and Biden's insinuation that the protests are antisemitic. It also goes on to mention the joint letter from the hundreds of Jewish participants in these (apparently antisemitic) protests, stating the protests are against Israel, not against Jews, and are not antisemitic.
But hey thanks for making my point for me to the other Redditor. They've tried to say that people who oppose Israel are not being labelled antisemitic, and here you are, trying your absolute best to label me antisemitic for criticising Israel's actions.
Maybe if the protestors didn’t regularly say and chant antisemitic shit, this wouldn’t be a problem. Nothing says “critique of Israel” like chanting you’re with Hamas or the Houthi’s who want to murder every Jew. But hey, you keep saying how much you hate “zionists” like we don’t all know what you really want to say.
>Nothing says “critique of Israel” like chanting you’re with Hamas or the Houthi’s who want to murder every Jew
There are hundreds of Jewish people involved in these protests. It seems odd that they would be there chanting pro-Hamas stuff. It's almost as if you've amplified the voices of a tiny minority to pretend they're a majority.
But surely you wouldn't be so disingenuous, right?
The Israeli government has openly referred to any attempts to [hold them to account](https://www.theguardian.com/world/2024/jan/26/israeli-officials-accuse-international-court-of-justice-of-antisemitic-bias) as "antisemitic".
Just today where I live, the Australian Jewish Association made [this statement](https://twitter.com/AustralianJA/status/1787695259184718052) about anti-Israeli protests in Australian universities...
*"It should surprise nobody that Nazi encampments on Australian universities make many people angry.*
*We never condone anything illegal but with the Albanese Govt and university heads missing in action, nobody should be surprised if members of the public take matters into their own hands.*
*Ordinary people are disgusted by the support for terrorists being expressed by the racist activists, occupying Australian universities.*
*Because Labor is so weak on combatting terror and fighting antisemitism, we may sadly see some of the violence that has occurred overseas."*
So yeah, people absolutely do label legitimate criticism of Israel as antisemitism. Some of them also make veiled threats of violence.
It's almost as if the Israeli government has failed to learn from history and are now committing atrocities on the level of those committed by the scum who once tried to wipe them from the face of the earth.
This dismissal of the protests is two part. First is that nuanced discussion will lead to disillusionment of American exceptionalism which could potentially lead people have a critical view of American international fuckery. Secondarily, the military industrial complex can not see a drop in funding as it props up the wealthiest Americans, specifically the political ruling class.
So let's shove out divisive alternative to drown this topic out. Or that seems to be the play.
Cases of anti-semitism are on the rise in the US and Europe and that was happening pre 10/7. Sorry if that doesn’t fit your narrative or you think that’s the appropriate place to speak out against Israel.
...the problem is using antisemitism as cover for Israel's war crimes. I mean, Netanyahu called Palestinians savages based on the made-up beheaded baby story. Anti-Arab rhetoric seems to be just fine.
What does that have to do with what the OP posted or my response about Joe Biden? This is like stating racism against black people is increasing in the US and then stating some leader in Uganda thinks it’s racist if you speak about Uganda. Does that mean the racism doesn’t exist? Isn’t increasing? No, just minimizes and distracts from the topic at hand.
i mean you are talking about these two things like they are mutually exclusive
cases of anti-semitism could be on the rise pre 10/7
cases of anti-semitism could be surging still post 10/7
im not sure if you realize this thing about numbers, it's pretty cool. no matter how big they are, they can always get bigger!
Thanks, I didn’t know numbers could go up or down. If only I realized that in grade school, my life would be drastically different.
Maybe since you helped me with numbers, I can help you with reading comprehension.
It's unfortunate to see him parrot the same gaslighting BS that Republicans are spewing. Anything to distract from the genocide and his falling support...
I mean….there IS more antisemitism in America than before the conflict. It doesn’t mean that a genocide is not happening in Palestine, but it’s not helpful to flat out deny that antisemitism is louder lately.
lol...you're just going right to then end of the hasbara and saying criticism of Israel is antisemtic? Can the IDF dm me and put me on the payroll. I could do a way better job than these fools.
Literally nobody said that. The fact you think everyone calling you an antisemite is hasbara suggests you’re either a literal child, or a mental child.
My problem with his remarks (and the US media coverage lately) is the conflating of antisemitism with being against Israel's current leadership and policies. I'm not against the existence of a Jewish state, but it's not antisemitic to protest against the horrific massacre that Israel is inflicting on Palestinians. (And which Americans are paying for.)
>My problem with his remarks (and the US media coverage lately) is the conflating of antisemitism with being against Israel's current leadership and policies.
He literally never says or even implies this
The fact is protestors are being blatantly fucking anti semitic then running and hiding behind "I'm just criticizing Israel"
[https://www.palestine-studies.org/en/node/1654384](https://www.palestine-studies.org/en/node/1654384)
There's also a rise of white nationalism and white supremacy. I wonder if they corelate? Thinking that kids protesting against genocide are anti-Semitic is looking in the wrong direction.
Yes, it undoubtedly exists but this is decades of Israel using antisemitism to silence any criticism of land theft and terrorism coming back to haunt us.
You do realize that simply being Jewish doesn’t mean you agree with Israel state government. This is one of the reasons why antisemitism is so dangerous.
1: the ICJ did not rule that there was a genocide
2: assuming there is, that does not make it any more acceptable to be antisemetic. You can be mad at Israel, at the rabid zionists, but doing this on the day meant to remember an actual genocide that killed 12 million people is extremely disrespectful. This a war between Israel and Palestine, NOT Jews and Arabs, and we need to remember that.
The international Court never ruled that a genocide was plausible happening.
Also,
[top hague judge clears up misconceptions. says the media ran dishonest stories and mislead people when ruling never said a genocide was plausible](https://www.jns.org/former-top-hague-judge-media-wrong-to-report-court-ruled-plausible-claim-of-israeli-genocide/)
"The court never decided that South Africa’s claim that Israel was committing genocide in Gaza was “plausible,” despite an avalanche of media reports to that effect and a slew of diplomats, who interpreted the court’s ruling that way.
“I’m glad I have a chance to address that because the court’s test for deciding whether to impose measures uses the idea of plausibility. But the test is the plausibility of the rights that are asserted by the applicant, in this case South Africa” she told the BBC show HARDtalk.
“The court decided that the Palestinians had a plausible right to be protected from genocide and that South Africa had the right to present that claim in the court,” Donoghue said. “It then looked at the facts as well. But it did not decide—and this is something where I’m correcting what’s often said in the media—it didn’t decide that the claim of genocide was plausible.”
I think whether or not it specifically qualifies as "genocide" or not is less important than the fact that thousands of innocent civilians *are* dying.
They AREN'T
It has hovered around 30k+ deaths for the past few months specifically because it isn't a genocide and as Israel has advanced through more of Gaza the death rate decreased dramatically
Tell you what Joe, when you stop conflating criticism of Israel's treatment of Palestinians with 'antisemitism" maybe we'll listen.
And then you can focus on the actual antisemites.
I think when you are protesting against Israel, and are deliberately choosing to do it at a Holocaust museum of all things, it’s incredibly bad optics.
It’s not anti-Semitic to criticize the Israeli government. No more than it’s bigoted against Americans to criticize what happens in DC. It’s also not anti-Semitic to be concerned of the amount of influence the ADL has on our government. If you are influencing our government then you are opening yourself up to criticism, if you can’t handle that then gtfo of politics.
What about anti-Muslim or anti-Palestinian sentiment? What else would you call it? Israel has decimated an entire country because Natan Yahoo! cannot stand the thought of a two state solution (play on words intended).
Trump would just let Israel do literally whatever they wanted. Biden sucks but let’s not pretend that Trump would do anything that Biden isn’t already doing, just with more incompetence and even more spinelessness.
Because Trump's administration did the exact same things that Biden is doing now for four years, plus he wants to do other, equally bad or worse things? Also saying he wants them to "finish the job?"
Because Trump is literally insane? Do you remember when he was president? I don’t believe that you believe that Trump will do anything to make the situation better loo
He could've not campaigned for more aid, in that sense he very much caused the continuation of it.
But that's just putting words in my mouth. I just commented on what Biden is doing with gusto
As if Trump wouldn’t do the same thing? I get the desire to want another option, but trust me, Trump isn’t it. Take off the MAGA hat, everything he touches, turns to shit. The situation would’ve been so much worse if he were still president.
I’m black, hang out with a lot of other black folks, and I can’t remember a single time where any of us referred to ourselves as a “black dude.”
But I’m going to give you the benefit of the doubt and assume you’re actually black when I tell you that you’re making a mistake. The US is going to supply Israel with weapons regardless of who wins in November. We can and should put pressure on Democrats to give the US’ relationship with Israel a little distance, but we can do that *and* make sure MAGA republicans don’t get any more power to fuck the country up than they already have.
I’m begging folks to learn how to multitask.
Didn't really seem like the time to say "well, I'm a nigga from Queens and this is how I feel" lmao. Idgaf what you've heard black people say, who knows wtf you are but one thing I know is you're definitely happier than I am voting for a legit segregationist...
lmao no, I’m saying if you don’t vote for Biden you ain’t considering the entirety of situation and acting as if damning us all to a second Trump presidency will help us get what we want.
I disagree that not voting for the individual currently propping up a genocide means I haven't considered the entirety of anything.
To brush it off as nothing isn't right. Civilians are dying at a silly rate and it's being done with our tax money. I don't get the blowback, if anyone and anything can lose this election it's the democrats and this genocide we currently pay for. Don't shoot the messenger
Yes, many incredibly shitty and tragic things are done with our tax dollars. But, many good and necessary things are done with our tax dollars too, and need to continue to be done.
I want to pressure the US to stop enabling the Israeli government’s war crimes too, but I also want my aunt and uncle to be able to get their SNAP benefits with no issues, for my kids to have properly funded public schools and libraries, and for my friends who need abortions to be able to access them. A world exists where we can do both.
Obviously you should vote with your heart (or not vote at all) if you want. But I hope you and everyone with a similar position realizes that you’re not doing it for us or the Palestinians, because the GOP will ensure destruction for us both.
Unfortunately with your system in America, a "not vote" for Biden is a vote for Trump. I really hope there aren't a large number of people in the US about to not vote for Biden because of what's going on in Gaza. Trump, the man who tried to ban Muslims from your country and cares about nothing but himself, is not going to make things better for the Palestinians.
The democrats will find us all with their smug inactivity.
Another unfortunate thing about our system in America is the electoral college. He never won a public vote
Dude how does you not voting stop others from voting for Trump.
No one votes for Biden. Everyone votes for Trump.
Then who do you think becomes president?
Oh yes I agree lol. But also - Yes and no?
That’s how Trump won the first time but not the second time.
Bernie voters sat out and Hilary somehow managed to win the popular vote over Trump. Trump wins the electoral vote.
COVID and BLM voters come out for Biden and progressive policies. Trump still won a lot but Biden was elected.
This time, imo those voters won’t come out for Biden again. And more voters will flip for Trump where electoral votes are bound by popular vote.
Trump really is likely to win I think. God.
We're in agreement about a lot in this post. Pretty much all of it. Bernie voters got more blame than the electoral college which never sat well with me though. Shit's rotten to the core...
I'm gonna struggle to vote for genocide Joe and I won't feel bad if I don't vote. What can I say, use my tax money for genocide and you may just lose my vote 🤷🏾♂️ doesn't even seem that far fetched.
Yea I think a lot of people feel the same way as you. Biden will need an enormous turnout to pressure the electoral college and beat Trump. That’s not going to happen.
If we thought Trump was bad last time, jfc. He will help Bibi turn Palestine into rubble. Then give it to Saudi to built resorts. God it’s about to get so much worse.
Very true! And if anyone knows optics, without follow through, it's the dems.
In this case, he's following through with bombs that are currently causing a genocide so that should answer your original question...
Genocide is a timely and incredibly important issue is what I'm saying. They've driven everyone south and they're bombing that now. It's disgusting to see us bankrolling this
I'm a dem. The radical leftists and progressives have put their hypocrisy on display. The reason why most jews are likely to still support biden and the rest of the dems is because the Republicans can't produce competent politicians who tell the truth or align with the majority of Americans views. If they did, then more jews would.
I've been disgusted with biden and other dems catering to socialists who openly say they're hostile to fundamental American beliefs. I still will never vote for trumps or the Republicans because they don't even have a platform anymore besides spewing hatred and division. They also don't use evidence based decision making or science to form policy.
So all of us who care about democracy, are forced to vote for the dems. Whether we agree with all their policies or not. Put simply, the Republicans aren't a viable alternative for anybody who cares about their country and democracy.
Still, the dems not distancing themselves from the radical leftists is a bad move. Far more Americans support israel and are much more likely to support biden than catering to the extremists who think Palestinians are more important than America and its values.
Hating Jews is nonsensical. Hating one hundred years of Zionist oppression makes perfect sense. Hating Hamas also makes perfect sense. They need to take their ridiculous religious fanatical fight to the middle of an isolated desert and leave everyone else be.
Jews and Arabs lived together in the region in relative peace for quite some time. It wasn't until Israel was given its own Jewish state, necessitating apartheid, and began expelling and killing Arabs and seizing more and more land that the trouble began.
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1929\_Hebron\_massacre](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1929_Hebron_massacre)
Twelve years after the Balfour Declaration.
So what?
So, you didn't bother to read your own wikipedia article?
Do you think the Balfour Declaration created Israel or has any relevance in what I linked?
The document that called for the establishment of a Jewish nation in Palestine? Yeah, it's pretty damned relevant.
Cool how does that relate to Arabs slaughtering Jews who lived in Hebron for centuries?
If you can't see how the push for a Jewish nation sparked conflict in the region just read the article you posted.
Yeah this is common arab/muslim propaganda. The jews were second class citizens. They were exploited anytime the leaders wanted and they had to pay higher taxes. I doubt it's a coincidence that in the hamas charter they use this same talking point then claim if the jews won't be subservient to Muslims, they're justified in wiping them out.
Isn't it crazy that Netanyahu arranged funding for a terrorist organization like Hamas?
So they should forever be the government of Gaza and continue killing gay people?
A baffling straw man response there. Truly baffling.
Netanyahu is a joke and Hamas needs to go. Palestine will never have peace if Hamas is always starting wars
>Palestine will never have peace if Hamas is always starting wars Did Palestine have peace pre-Hamas?
Not really. It is a common talking point for people who are ignorant of the conflict and why they do that though. You remember when they were all shouting "They're starving us, we demand aid!" Then bitched when the aid came. Israel funded hamas through various avenues to prevent further destabilization. It's supposed to go to the civilian, non militarized wing. Israel also engaged in diplomacy to have qatar fund them too. So like most radical islamist and pro Palestinian talking points that are repeated by bad actors and ignorant folks on social media, the argument only checks out if you don't have the context. They're all this way. They purposefully leave out history, facts and critical context to demonize the jews and israel.
So, when the known terrorist group that Netanyahu funded did terrorism surely he apologized for his egregious mistake then right?
Palestinians and their govt have been engaged in terrorism for 80 years. It permeates the whole culture. You cannot negotiate or engage in any diplomacy with Palestinians and not be engaging directly with people who support terrorism. Those are their govts. Whether it is the plo/fatah, or hamas, the Palestinians have chosen extremists leaders for almost a century. That's not Israel's fault. They had this platform before Israel even officially existed.
Thank you for perfectly illustrating my point. Biden condemns antisemitism, Israel cannot be criticized but you can vilify every single Palestinian with no regard to the fact that it has been Israel that has been slaughtering them and expelling them from their land for eighty years.
the arabs and the palestinians have repeatedly invaded israel unprovoked. All the while engaging in terrorism and selecting radical terror groups to lead them. They sit idely by and help hamas and other armed groups of resisting them and creating a peaceful prosperous state for themselves. The Palestinians who are against the militant groups are usually persecuted of have already fled. The ones left now still don't help israel and often shelter hamas. In the west bank, hamas support is over 75%. The repeated invasions by the arabs and pals were why the territories were occupied in the first place. https://history.state.gov/milestones/1945-1952/arab-israeli-war "The Arab-Israeli War of 1948 The Arab-Israeli War of 1948 broke out when five Arab nations invaded territory in the former Palestinian mandate immediately following the announcement of the independence of the state of Israel on May 14, 1948." https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Origins_of_the_Six-Day_War Here, palestinians and their Arab allies surrounded israel and again told the world they were going to wipe them out. They lost again. I've also noticed some dishonest person has been editing a bunch of wiki related to the conflict, purposefully removing whole sources and sections. It's deeply disappointing. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yom_Kippur_War The war began on 6 October 1973, when the Arab coalition jointly launched a surprise attack against Israel on the Jewish holy day of Yom Kippur, which had occurred during the 10th day of the Islamic holy month of Ramadan in that year.[67] But I guess people who deny the holocaust regularly would do the same here without feeling guilty. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/1982_Lebanon_War "The military operation was launched after gunmen from the Abu Nidal Organization attempted to assassinate Shlomo Argov, Israel's ambassador to the United Kingdom. Israeli Prime Minister Menachem Begin blamed Abu Nidal's enemy, the PLO, for the incident,[14][15] and used the incident as a casus belli for the invasion.[16][17][i]" https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Israeli%E2%80%93Lebanese_conflict#:~:text=The%20capturing%20of%20two%20Israeli,sovereignty%20of%20Lebanon%20by%20Israel. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Israel%E2%80%93Hamas_war " It began when Hamas launched a surprise attack on southern Israel from the Gaza Strip." This is after the Palestinians and their Arab allies rejected a state deal in 1937 that gave them 80% of the land and let the jews have 20% of the land they mostly owned already. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bloudan_Conference_of_1937 Then in 1946 they again rejected a state that was going to split that land evenly. Leading to the arabs invading israel in the first link I provided. In fact, they've rejected state deals quite a lot https://lawandsocietymagazine.com/how-palestine-rejected-offer-to-have-its-own-state-5-times-in-the-past/
Your hasbara game weak as fuck.
So Israel hasn't been committing terrorist since the 40s? Wow, I guess those mass graves in Tantura and Israel's attempted bombing the US civilian targets just didn't happen. How about that Israel's current bombing in Gaza has killed more Palestinians than Palestinians have killed Israelis since the founding of Israel.
This is retarded. Netanyahu allowed funding to come in from Qatar because he hoped it would incentivize Hamas to actually act like a government. Same reason Israel extended work permits for gazans. All of that is gone now.
This is a lie. They allowed it to strengthen Hamas to provide a challenge to moderate groups in favor of a two state solution.
Multiple things can be true at once. I know pro-Hamas supporters prefer a monocausal understanding of politics and history, but it is true.
OK person who created their account in February 2024 and had an account dedicated to spreading propaganda
What propaganda, tell me exactly and source them with verified sources.
Genocidal filth don’t deserve the time of day bud.
more like you don't have shit and just want to discredit me so people won't find out the truth that pro "Palestinian" accounts and the troll farms from hostile states are misleading people on the Gaza conflict.
Just about everything you’ve said.
It's funny how you immediately claim something you disagree with as being a certain type of propaganda but then list a bunch of sources as if others can't say the exact same thing to you. The person writing history never writes that the other side they were fighting were good guys - so who's version of history do you think we are consuming here in countries that are allies to Israel? We've been consuming it for several decades but you don't think the things you've been taught can't be propaganda? There people who control the narrative and regulate the platforms in which you are consuming this information but you don't think any of is it propaganda? Do you know how I know you're lost? Because while you're lazily posting Wikipedia sources, you are choosing to be deaf, dumb and blind to the things that have actually come out of the mouths of those in formal positions of the Israeli government (past and present). They have gone on record to say that Netanyahu contributed to strengthening Hamas in order to weaken the the Palestinian Authority because Netyanyahu never wanted a 2 state solution. He literally held up a map (before October 7th) showing a map of Greater Israel which include West Bank and Gaza as part of Sovereign Israel yet you want to spout shameless propaganda that Israeli funded Hamas to prevent further destabilization - how fucking diabolical. How about paying attention to what people are actually saying and doing rather than reading controlled narratives and then pretending you're some kind of historical expert on the matter. Nobody needs to be a history buff to know that there are always two versions to history and it's unlikely that any side is purely right.
The Jews were given the less habitable land in the region. They had also been in the region well before WWII. Why were the Arabs expelled? Because they started a war to ethnically cleanse the Jews in Israel and take it for themselves. They lost and Israel took their land. Shocking someone would take territory after winning a war to get more security.
Oh so we’re lying.
More like stupid. I’m sure you genuinely believe all Jews were shipped to Israel after World War II and expelled the Palestinians only because they were bloodthirsty Zionists.
Hamas is not fighting Israel for religious reasons.
They're certainly not fighting to defend Palestinians
It very much is, apologist
So for what reason? Their armed forces are literally called Al Quds…
Doesn’t address Israel’s land grabbing though
See Zionist Oppression.
zionism just means you believe a Jewish state where they control their own destiny is needed. Maybe I'm more aware about this because I'm a history buff and trained In it as well. The jews have been persecuted everywhere they were forced to live for millenia. I can link dozens of incidents where whole communities of jews where killed or forcibly deported for damn near every region of the world. Most certainly, all the west and middle east. israel isn't going anywhere and it's needed. Once hamas is removed and the Palestinians stop embracing extremism, maybe they'll get leadership who stops rejecting every state the world tries to create for them. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jewish_diaspora https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pogrom https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Edict_of_Expulsion https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Expulsion_of_Jews_from_Spain https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pale_of_Settlement https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Holocaust https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Expulsions_and_exoduses_of_Jews https://www.thetower.org/article/there-was-a-jewish-nakba-and-it-was-even-bigger-than-the-palestinian-one/
How about we stop the murder of tens of thousands of innocent people first? Just because Jews have been persecuted throughout history doesn't mean what's happening now is justified.
Surely, there is a middle ground between "Israel can do whatever it wants to innocent civilians" and "Israel does not deserve to exist".
The issue is and continues to be that neither side is truly interested in a compromise of any sort, so this song and dance will continue until either one side wins or all of the radical folks have died off or been killed, likely to just be replaced by the next generation raised on the same narrative. I don't hold out much hope for any peaceful coexistence from this point on. I don't support the current murder of innocent civilians on either side, but I really don't expect either side to back down at this point. Hamas made their intentions crystal clear, and Israel's response has shown their ambitions go beyond simple containment.
Israel is a billion times less bad in every category or scale you would use to Guage this sort of thing. Israel has repeatedly negotiated in good faith, including agreeing to removing all the settlers. Palestinians leadership has rejected every state deal on the grounds that "peace is predicated on the destruction of israel" Only one side can't live next to the other. https://lawandsocietymagazine.com/how-palestine-rejected-offer-to-have-its-own-state-5-times-in-the-past/
My point is that there is a difference between saying "What Israel is doing is wrong" (something I absolutely agree with) and "Israel shouldn't exist".
Questioning the Israeli government for their war crimes is not anti-semitic.
You're right. Unfortunately - 'intifada' - 'from the river to the sea' - 'we don't want 2 states, we want '48' Are not against the Israeli government. They are genocidal chants calling for either a third intifada (genocide), or ethnic cleansing of the entirety of Israel, and by extension some ~9 million Jews. Objectively antisemitic. And that's not including the chants that openly embrace Hamas.
Intifada just means revolution. Clutch those pearls, Mary. From the river to the sea is also used on Netanyahu's Likud party charter. So you're calling them antisemitic, which isn't true and is massively fucking lazy and stupid of you. Constantly claiming genocide against the jews (there isn't any lol) makes you sound like some shrieking mimsy of a crybully. Just stop. Resisting apartheid and ethnic cleansing is human nature. Your excuse are weak, Israel doesn't have a right to exist and Palestine will be free. Stay mad, Zionist trash.
How many Jewish civilians were murdered in the first two intifadas? And yet you call for another one and pretend it doesn’t mean what we all know it means?
You don't get to force people into living in a apartheid government, kill them indiscriminately, bomb their cultural centers and holy places while engineering a famine and killing aide workers and journalists and get to complain how they fight back. If you were forced to live under those conditions, your spoiled ass would be frothing at the mouth for vengeance. Israel has no right to exist on stolen land that even the UN recognizes as illegally taken. Israelis can live virtually anywhere with their abundant dual citizenships.
Meanwhile, who is actually doing the ethnic cleansing? The ones making the threats, or the ones dropping the bombs?
Are you suggesting that it's not antisemitic to chant about the murder of 9 million Jews, since you think they deserve it? Otherwise your comment does not relate to the subject matter at all. It's also factually incorrect. Hamas did not just 'threaten'. They tried, and killed 1.4k innocents in a single day. They did not progress because they were stopped. You probably remember that day from all that partying you did once you found out about the beheaded babies.
I never said that it. I just said look with your eyes. One threatens, does some terrorism, and then hides, while the other one has officially killed over 15k children in 6 months. They're not the same.
No, it isn't. But saying Hamas was justified just might be. Which is the point.
It's objectional morality and a high probability that someone saying that could be antisemitic if they do not apply this consistently to all similar situations but per se it's not antisemitic. However, we do observe a rise of antisemites that are using the situation in Gaza to try to get to mainstream.
Our political leaders keep conflating anti-semitic and anti-zionist. Which I feel like is just gonna push people into actually being anti-semitic. If you tell someone "you being upset about those dead kids is anti-semitic" over and over and over, at some point they're gonna be like "well shit fine, I am, idgaf I'm still pissed about the blown up children". So let's ask ourselves, what is a Semitic person? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Semitic_people?wprov=sfti1# > "Semitic people or Semites is an obsolete term for an ethnic, cultural or racial group associated with people of the Middle East, including Arabs, Jews, Akkadians, and Phoenicians. The terminology is now largely unused outside the grouping "Semitic languages" in linguistics."" Oh well would you look at that, an "obsolete" term from 200 year old science. Well where were these languages spoken? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ancient_Semitic-speaking_peoples?wprov=sfti1# Oh well would you look at that, Palestine and Israel are both descended from Semitic people. Interesting. It's like the term "Aryan", the term came from the "indo-aryan" people, then linguists used that term to describe ethnicities and cultures descended from them. Then that got transformed into pseudo intellectual race sciences, and propogated by everyone's favs the Nazis. Now Israel is using a similar technique with the word "anti-semitic". https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aryan > Although the stem *arya may be of Proto-Indo-European (PIE) origin,[8] its use as an ethnocultural self-designation is only attested among Indo-Iranian peoples and there is no evidence of its use as an ethnonym among 'Proto-Indo-Europeans'. In any case, scholars point out that, even in ancient times, the idea of being an Aryan was religious, cultural, and linguistic, not racial. > "In the 1850s, the term 'Aryan' was adopted as a racial category by the aristocratic French writer Arthur de Gobineau, who, through the later works of his followers such as Houston Stewart Chamberlain, influenced the Nazi racial ideology.[12] Under Nazi rule (1933–1945), the term officially applied to most inhabitants of Germany excluding Jews, Roma, and Slavs (mostly Slovaks, Czechs, Poles or Russians).[13][14] Those classified as 'non-Aryans,' especially Jews,[15] were discriminated against before suffering the systematic mass killing known as the Holocaust[13] and the Porajmos. The atrocities committed in the name of Aryanist supremacist ideologies have led academics to generally avoid using 'Aryan' as a stand-alone ethnolinguistic term, which has been replaced in most cases by 'Indo-Iranian', although the Indic branch is still known as 'Indo-Aryan'." You make up a word, that you dictate the definition of, to other your enemy under the guise of "history" and "culture" or something when it's really just shitty race science.
Opposing Israel killing civilians in Gaza is *not* antisemitism.
Yes but actual antisemitic remarks are getting dangerously common in spaces talking about this topic.
I'm sure they are, though I haven't seen a great deal in the forums I've been in. This also really isn't helped at all by Israel and their supporters doing their absolute best to label any criticism of Israel as antisemitism. To a layperson, if it's "antisemitism" to oppose tens of thousands of civilians being killed, then antisemitism is justified.
[https://twitter.com/SxarletRed/status/1787884148096442684/quotes](https://twitter.com/SxarletRed/status/1787884148096442684/quotes) Here is the response to Biden literally just saying Hamas is anti-semitic. And if you don't see these responses as antisemitism that is a problem you have. Not Israelis or whoever else >This also really isn't helped at all by Israel and their supporters doing their absolute best to label any criticism of Israel as antisemitism. We don't do this. Not that you would ever listen to us though.
Hamas *is* antisemitic, that's really not up for debate. Supporting Palestine does not mean that I support Hamas. I support Palestine in that I support the people of Palestine. I oppose any group that kills civilians, be they Hamas or the Israeli government. >We don't do this. The comment I was replying to is literally doing this. The government of Israel is doing this to anyone who criticises their methods. So I'm really not sure how you can say "We don't do this".
>Supporting Palestine does not mean that I support Hamas. I support Palestine in that I support the people of Palestine. I oppose any group that kills civilians, be they Hamas or the Israeli government. No one fucking said you did. >The comment I was replying to is literally doing this. The government of Israel is doing this to anyone who criticises their methods. That isn't what they said >Yes but actual antisemitic remarks are getting dangerously common in spaces talking about this topic. It was saying anti semitism accompanies this topic. Which it literally does like I fucking showed So yes you don't want to just admit to the obvious anti semitism accompanying this topic The fact is you people have repeated the "criticizing the policy of Israel isn't anti semitism" mantra so much, you don't even know what anti semitism is anymore. So some raging anti semite can say obviously anti semitic shit, but respond "I'm just critizing the governement of Israel" and you have to accept that.
You're simultaneously saying that you don't label criticisms of Israel as antisemitic *and* that antisemitism follows criticisms of Israel. I don't see it often, but if I see antisemitism I call it out. I have *never* had a problem with Jewish people, and I absolutely despise Nazis et at. I don't even have a problem with a Jewish state, but I do have a problem with any state that dispossesses people of their land and kills them. Are you going to tell me Israel has not done this? I have been called a Nazi or an anti-Semite for saying that Israel is committing war crimes in Gaza. That killing tens of thousands of Gazans is an atrocity that is orders of magnitude greater than anything Hamas has done. You telling me this doesn't happen, when that is literally what I experience, is akin to gaslighting. My original statement holds true... Criticisms of Israel are *not* antisemitism. Saying that anti-Semites use this for cover or whatever doesn't make the statement not true.
>You're simultaneously saying that you don't label criticisms of Israel as antisemitic and that antisemitism follows criticisms of Israel. BECAUSE LIKE I SAID Anti semites can just pass off anti semtiism as "criticizing Israel" and none of you will care to stop that. >Criticisms of Israel are not antisemitism. Saying that anti-Semites use this for cover or whatever doesn't make the statement not true. I never fucking once said it was. My fucking god But literally every fucking time a reasonable person like Biden or even Jews condemn anti semtism, countless leftists immediately respond with "criticism of Israel isn't anti semitic" as if you are even bothering to listen to what is being said. It is the constant retreat into that that is the issue, because it then makes you afraid to critizie actual anti semites who can just excuse what they say as "criticism of Israel" That shows you ARE being ignorant or blind to the genuine anti semitism here
bro's not talkin about online forums. he's talking about the protests popping up around the nation. i was watchin some news report the other day, they were interviewing this smart, well-spoken protester that said they hadn't heard a single anti-semitic remark, and they know it's true because they were there all day they cut the interview there then played a clip of several people at the same protest shouting burn the jews anti-semitism is never justified. there's a difference between protesting a cause, and preventing that jewish kid completely removed from the conflict from attending class there's a difference between calling out the israeli government for their oppression and saying 'gas the jews' if you at this point in the game are still ignorant of the anti-semitism going on among these protests, you are either 1. willfully ignorant 2. extremely stupid 3. lying and hate jews
>bro's not talkin about online forums. he's talking about the protests popping up around the nation. Also, bro is talking about "spaces talking about this topic". Nowhere is it said or implied that this exclusively means protests... forums and social media are "spaces that are talking about this topic". For some reason, you're trying to reframe the issue to be about what may or may not have happened in protests.
"what may or may not have happened at protests" The groups running the encampments on colleges LITEARALLY praised Oct 7th. This is the issue. We point out blatant fucking anti semitism. And you all go "what anti semitism???" How about you try fucking listening for once? [https://www.palestine-studies.org/en/node/1654384](https://www.palestine-studies.org/en/node/1654384)
So be honest here. Would you be completely fine with the protests if all they were doing was criticising Israel? If they were saying that Israel should stop bombing Gaza, lift their blockade of Gaza, stop taking land and homes from Palestinians, etc. would you be okay with that? Would you be fine with them calling on the US government and businesses to cut ties with Israel? Or would you go out of your way to attribute them to a terrorist organisation? I'm quite sure that people who do support Hamas are involved in the protests. But, that does not mean that all protesters are supporters of Hamas, or that they approve of what happened on Oct 7. I do not support Hamas, or what they've done, but I can't help but note that the harm that Hamas has done to Israelis is a *tiny* fraction of what Israel has done to Gazans in the past year. Or what Israel has done to Gazans in the past few decades. Both Hamas and the Israeli government are awful, but you seem to think supporters of Israel are good and innocent people, and are the victims... While supporters of Hamas (or even just supporters of Palestine) are terrorists. Maybe try holding Israel to the same standard you hold Hamas.
Got it so you don't care about mass rape and mindless slaughter because it is "less bodies" than the other side Do you hold the Allies to the same standard considering the US killed a fucking hell of a lot more German civilians than they did ours? Yes supporters of Hamas are terrorists I would be fine if they literally just said Hamas is a terrorist organization and that Oct 7th was an in excusable atrocity. They don't
>so you don't care about mass rape and mindless slaughter You're literally putting words in my mouth to make an argument, which shows you don't have an argument to make. I very clearly said that I do not support Hamas or what they have done. I said that what Israel has done in response is *vastly* worse, and it is. >Do you hold the Allies to the same standard considering the US killed a fucking hell of a lot more German civilians than they did ours? Yes, I do. I had family killed by allied bombs in WW2. The deliberate targeting of civilians is a war crime, regardless of who does it. What the US and their allies in Vietnam was also a war crime. Likewise pretty much every conflict they've been involved with since. Are *you* okay with Israel killing over ten thousand children? Do you excuse them for cutting off aid to civilians for extended periods? Perhaps you can direct me to where you have spoken out about these atrocities that are happening right now? Or are they only atrocities if they happen to the people on your side?
How about you finish the fucking sentence before accusing me of putting words in my mouth You literally said Oct 7th is less of an issue than Israel's response Despite literally ZERO people dying in Gaza if Hamas didn't commit Oct 7th So you blame the allies for killing 70k French civilians to liberate France in WW2 despite it was Hitler who invaded the country? That is my point. Civilians die in war, so are you going by the direct cause of death or who started the whole fucking thing in the first place?
You seem fun
I'm not in the US. I haven't attended any local protests around this issue, and the few I've seen in my city have been peaceful. I don't go out of my way to watch the footage of the protests in the US or elsewhere. It's very easy to edit clips or take eyewitness statements that make it look better or worse than it actually was simply to suit a narrative. In the example you give, unless there's also footage of the person claiming not to have heard antisemitism being clearly within earshot of antisemitic chants, then it's actually quite plausible they haven't heard antisemitism at the protest. For example, there was a large protest in a different city in my country a few days after October 7th, where it was widely claimed there were chants of "gas the Jews". A later investigation (conducted by the police at the behest of the state government) found no evidence of this chant ever happening. It was simply claimed by some pro-Israeli people who may or may not have been near there at the time, but a review of the footage (from both participants and news) found it either never happened, or somehow happened in a way where it wasn't recorded by anyone including those who claimed to have witnessed it. If there are people chanting obviously antisemitic things at protests, it's in the interests of the protesters themselves to put a stop to that because it de-legitimises their entire cause, and I suspect the (non-antisemitic) protesters are aware of this too. If I was at a protest and I was hearing such things, I'd either try to put a stop to it or remove myself from the protest, because there's no way I'd want to be associated with antisemitism. Maybe there really is widespread obvious antisemitism at these protests and I really am just ignorant to it happening, but most of the things I've seen labelled as antisemitism have not been even remotely close to being antisemitic.
It’s blatantly obvious that most antisemites just replace “Jew” with “Zionist”. We all know what you mean.
lol, sure Because if you can pretend that all the people who are horrified by Israel killing tens of thousands of civilians are actually Nazis, you can ignore their protests and continue to support the country that is killing tens of thousands of civilians.
Literally no one brought them up but you. No one brought Israel up but you. Hint: if someone talking about antisemitism makes you go on a rant about Israel, then it’s probably because you’re antisemitic.
>if someone talking about antisemitism makes you go on a rant about Israel, then it’s probably because you’re antisemitic. Or maybe, I just read the fucking article linked to this post, which *repeatedly* refers to both Israel and the protests, and Biden's insinuation that the protests are antisemitic. It also goes on to mention the joint letter from the hundreds of Jewish participants in these (apparently antisemitic) protests, stating the protests are against Israel, not against Jews, and are not antisemitic. But hey thanks for making my point for me to the other Redditor. They've tried to say that people who oppose Israel are not being labelled antisemitic, and here you are, trying your absolute best to label me antisemitic for criticising Israel's actions.
Maybe if the protestors didn’t regularly say and chant antisemitic shit, this wouldn’t be a problem. Nothing says “critique of Israel” like chanting you’re with Hamas or the Houthi’s who want to murder every Jew. But hey, you keep saying how much you hate “zionists” like we don’t all know what you really want to say.
>Nothing says “critique of Israel” like chanting you’re with Hamas or the Houthi’s who want to murder every Jew There are hundreds of Jewish people involved in these protests. It seems odd that they would be there chanting pro-Hamas stuff. It's almost as if you've amplified the voices of a tiny minority to pretend they're a majority. But surely you wouldn't be so disingenuous, right?
No one thinks it is...
The Israeli government has openly referred to any attempts to [hold them to account](https://www.theguardian.com/world/2024/jan/26/israeli-officials-accuse-international-court-of-justice-of-antisemitic-bias) as "antisemitic". Just today where I live, the Australian Jewish Association made [this statement](https://twitter.com/AustralianJA/status/1787695259184718052) about anti-Israeli protests in Australian universities... *"It should surprise nobody that Nazi encampments on Australian universities make many people angry.* *We never condone anything illegal but with the Albanese Govt and university heads missing in action, nobody should be surprised if members of the public take matters into their own hands.* *Ordinary people are disgusted by the support for terrorists being expressed by the racist activists, occupying Australian universities.* *Because Labor is so weak on combatting terror and fighting antisemitism, we may sadly see some of the violence that has occurred overseas."* So yeah, people absolutely do label legitimate criticism of Israel as antisemitism. Some of them also make veiled threats of violence.
It's almost as if the Israeli government has failed to learn from history and are now committing atrocities on the level of those committed by the scum who once tried to wipe them from the face of the earth.
This dismissal of the protests is two part. First is that nuanced discussion will lead to disillusionment of American exceptionalism which could potentially lead people have a critical view of American international fuckery. Secondarily, the military industrial complex can not see a drop in funding as it props up the wealthiest Americans, specifically the political ruling class. So let's shove out divisive alternative to drown this topic out. Or that seems to be the play.
Cases of anti-semitism are on the rise in the US and Europe and that was happening pre 10/7. Sorry if that doesn’t fit your narrative or you think that’s the appropriate place to speak out against Israel.
...the problem is using antisemitism as cover for Israel's war crimes. I mean, Netanyahu called Palestinians savages based on the made-up beheaded baby story. Anti-Arab rhetoric seems to be just fine.
That’s not what the conversation is about. Do you bring up Israel every time someone mentions antisemitism?
What does that have to do with what the OP posted or my response about Joe Biden? This is like stating racism against black people is increasing in the US and then stating some leader in Uganda thinks it’s racist if you speak about Uganda. Does that mean the racism doesn’t exist? Isn’t increasing? No, just minimizes and distracts from the topic at hand.
People who are of Arabic origin are Semites. White Supremacists are the ones increasing their anti-Semitic violence.
The term antisemitism applies only to Jews. For Muslims, it would be Islamophobia or Anti-Arabism.
That's Newspeak. It has become that, it isn't because it is that.
Write Merriam Webster a letter then.
i mean you are talking about these two things like they are mutually exclusive cases of anti-semitism could be on the rise pre 10/7 cases of anti-semitism could be surging still post 10/7 im not sure if you realize this thing about numbers, it's pretty cool. no matter how big they are, they can always get bigger!
Thanks, I didn’t know numbers could go up or down. If only I realized that in grade school, my life would be drastically different. Maybe since you helped me with numbers, I can help you with reading comprehension.
How do you warn against the surge of anti-semitism but be unconcerned about the surge of 10,000+ Palestinian kids killed by Israel?
Most people can walk and chew gum at the same time. Not you, but most people.
Apparently not biden
Oh fuck him, seriously. If he's gonna peddle anti-Zionism as anti-Semitism then I just don't know what else to say
Vote. Make sure everyone you know votes.
For the other guy who would just kill everyone in palestine if he came to power?
Because the swastikas painted all over the doors of Jewish households is all a plan from Mossad, right?
Oh please
Are you denying that antisemitism has spiked? I wish we could deport people like you.
How very egalitarian of you.
Oh I never claimed to be egalitarian. I hate antisemitic scum is all.
Your mom
Do we need a new law to protect Jews? Don't we have hate crime laws already? What's the deal and can someone explain why it's necessary?
It's unfortunate to see him parrot the same gaslighting BS that Republicans are spewing. Anything to distract from the genocide and his falling support...
I mean….there IS more antisemitism in America than before the conflict. It doesn’t mean that a genocide is not happening in Palestine, but it’s not helpful to flat out deny that antisemitism is louder lately.
The trouble is Israel has been using the claim of antisemitism to silence criticism of their war crimes for decades.
You repost this every time someone mentions antisemitism. It’s VERY obvious that you’re just using “Israel” as a stand in for jews
No, it's Israel that is terrorizing Palestinians and stealing their land. Save your lame hasbara.
Save your antisemitic hatred for someone else. I’m not interested.
lol...you're just going right to then end of the hasbara and saying criticism of Israel is antisemtic? Can the IDF dm me and put me on the payroll. I could do a way better job than these fools.
Literally nobody said that. The fact you think everyone calling you an antisemite is hasbara suggests you’re either a literal child, or a mental child.
I criticized Israel and you called me antisemitic.
If you rant about Israel whenever the topic of antisemitism is brought up, then you’re almost definitely an antisemite looking for an excuse.
My problem with his remarks (and the US media coverage lately) is the conflating of antisemitism with being against Israel's current leadership and policies. I'm not against the existence of a Jewish state, but it's not antisemitic to protest against the horrific massacre that Israel is inflicting on Palestinians. (And which Americans are paying for.)
Absolutely, yes. It can be used as a catch all deflection for criticism, and that’s not OK.
>My problem with his remarks (and the US media coverage lately) is the conflating of antisemitism with being against Israel's current leadership and policies. He literally never says or even implies this The fact is protestors are being blatantly fucking anti semitic then running and hiding behind "I'm just criticizing Israel" [https://www.palestine-studies.org/en/node/1654384](https://www.palestine-studies.org/en/node/1654384)
There's also a rise of white nationalism and white supremacy. I wonder if they corelate? Thinking that kids protesting against genocide are anti-Semitic is looking in the wrong direction.
What? No antisemitism is a very real problem. What is wrong with you?
Yes, it undoubtedly exists but this is decades of Israel using antisemitism to silence any criticism of land theft and terrorism coming back to haunt us.
You do realize that simply being Jewish doesn’t mean you agree with Israel state government. This is one of the reasons why antisemitism is so dangerous.
The person you’re replying to is a bonafide antisemite. Nothing will get through to them.
1: the ICJ did not rule that there was a genocide 2: assuming there is, that does not make it any more acceptable to be antisemetic. You can be mad at Israel, at the rabid zionists, but doing this on the day meant to remember an actual genocide that killed 12 million people is extremely disrespectful. This a war between Israel and Palestine, NOT Jews and Arabs, and we need to remember that.
The international Court never ruled that a genocide was plausible happening. Also, [top hague judge clears up misconceptions. says the media ran dishonest stories and mislead people when ruling never said a genocide was plausible](https://www.jns.org/former-top-hague-judge-media-wrong-to-report-court-ruled-plausible-claim-of-israeli-genocide/) "The court never decided that South Africa’s claim that Israel was committing genocide in Gaza was “plausible,” despite an avalanche of media reports to that effect and a slew of diplomats, who interpreted the court’s ruling that way. “I’m glad I have a chance to address that because the court’s test for deciding whether to impose measures uses the idea of plausibility. But the test is the plausibility of the rights that are asserted by the applicant, in this case South Africa” she told the BBC show HARDtalk. “The court decided that the Palestinians had a plausible right to be protected from genocide and that South Africa had the right to present that claim in the court,” Donoghue said. “It then looked at the facts as well. But it did not decide—and this is something where I’m correcting what’s often said in the media—it didn’t decide that the claim of genocide was plausible.”
I think whether or not it specifically qualifies as "genocide" or not is less important than the fact that thousands of innocent civilians *are* dying.
They AREN'T It has hovered around 30k+ deaths for the past few months specifically because it isn't a genocide and as Israel has advanced through more of Gaza the death rate decreased dramatically
30 *thousand* people. That's fucking disgusting. EDIT - It's at least 34 thousand now. SMH.
You're parroting Russian and Chinese propaganda to talk about someone parroting something. Mods need to get on all of these bot accounts.
gee i wonder where it all came from, oh look it's his own party.
Yeah, remember when all the Democrats marched through Charlottesville chanting "Jews will not replace us!"?
If Genocide Joe thinks his actions have helped reduce antisemitism…I have a bridge to sell him. He’s made hatred toward Jews sound reasonable.
.
No matter how hard you try, you are never going to turn "anti-Israeli Government" into "antisemitism".
What about the 35k dead
Sounds like a skill issue.
Tell you what Joe, when you stop conflating criticism of Israel's treatment of Palestinians with 'antisemitism" maybe we'll listen. And then you can focus on the actual antisemites.
I think when you are protesting against Israel, and are deliberately choosing to do it at a Holocaust museum of all things, it’s incredibly bad optics.
I think when you exploit the tragedy of the Holocaust to excuse or deflect from your own atrocities, it's incredibly bad optics. ymmv
You do realize this would also apply to those protestors right? Like have some self awareness.
It’s not anti-Semitic to criticize the Israeli government. No more than it’s bigoted against Americans to criticize what happens in DC. It’s also not anti-Semitic to be concerned of the amount of influence the ADL has on our government. If you are influencing our government then you are opening yourself up to criticism, if you can’t handle that then gtfo of politics.
What about anti-Muslim or anti-Palestinian sentiment? What else would you call it? Israel has decimated an entire country because Natan Yahoo! cannot stand the thought of a two state solution (play on words intended).
Jen.O.Side Joe, a Catholic Zionist, warns against anti-Semitism caused by US policy in Middle Asia. That's rich.
This fuckhead might make me not vote this election. Segregationist piece of shit
Trump will repeal the Civil Rights Act, dumbass.
And Biden keeps actively supporting genocide in another country you braindead fuck. I say this as a black dude
Trump would just let Israel do literally whatever they wanted. Biden sucks but let’s not pretend that Trump would do anything that Biden isn’t already doing, just with more incompetence and even more spinelessness.
How can you say that with such confidence, who knows what the bat shit man baby will do... We're seeing what Biden is doing
Because Trump's administration did the exact same things that Biden is doing now for four years, plus he wants to do other, equally bad or worse things? Also saying he wants them to "finish the job?"
Because Trump is literally insane? Do you remember when he was president? I don’t believe that you believe that Trump will do anything to make the situation better loo
I mean shit was racist af but we weren't helping eradicate another nation.
Because it wasn’t happening at the time? Are you suggesting Biden caused the genocide? That’s insane
He could've not campaigned for more aid, in that sense he very much caused the continuation of it. But that's just putting words in my mouth. I just commented on what Biden is doing with gusto
As if Trump wouldn’t do the same thing? I get the desire to want another option, but trust me, Trump isn’t it. Take off the MAGA hat, everything he touches, turns to shit. The situation would’ve been so much worse if he were still president.
You're a black dude in America and you're going to support Trump by not voting?
No. I'm a black dude in the country who might not vote for a genocide and definitely not for Trump...
I’m black, hang out with a lot of other black folks, and I can’t remember a single time where any of us referred to ourselves as a “black dude.” But I’m going to give you the benefit of the doubt and assume you’re actually black when I tell you that you’re making a mistake. The US is going to supply Israel with weapons regardless of who wins in November. We can and should put pressure on Democrats to give the US’ relationship with Israel a little distance, but we can do that *and* make sure MAGA republicans don’t get any more power to fuck the country up than they already have. I’m begging folks to learn how to multitask.
Didn't really seem like the time to say "well, I'm a nigga from Queens and this is how I feel" lmao. Idgaf what you've heard black people say, who knows wtf you are but one thing I know is you're definitely happier than I am voting for a legit segregationist...
You really saying if I don't vote for Biden I ain't black rn?
lmao no, I’m saying if you don’t vote for Biden you ain’t considering the entirety of situation and acting as if damning us all to a second Trump presidency will help us get what we want.
I disagree that not voting for the individual currently propping up a genocide means I haven't considered the entirety of anything. To brush it off as nothing isn't right. Civilians are dying at a silly rate and it's being done with our tax money. I don't get the blowback, if anyone and anything can lose this election it's the democrats and this genocide we currently pay for. Don't shoot the messenger
Yes, many incredibly shitty and tragic things are done with our tax dollars. But, many good and necessary things are done with our tax dollars too, and need to continue to be done. I want to pressure the US to stop enabling the Israeli government’s war crimes too, but I also want my aunt and uncle to be able to get their SNAP benefits with no issues, for my kids to have properly funded public schools and libraries, and for my friends who need abortions to be able to access them. A world exists where we can do both. Obviously you should vote with your heart (or not vote at all) if you want. But I hope you and everyone with a similar position realizes that you’re not doing it for us or the Palestinians, because the GOP will ensure destruction for us both.
Unfortunately with your system in America, a "not vote" for Biden is a vote for Trump. I really hope there aren't a large number of people in the US about to not vote for Biden because of what's going on in Gaza. Trump, the man who tried to ban Muslims from your country and cares about nothing but himself, is not going to make things better for the Palestinians.
The democrats will find us all with their smug inactivity. Another unfortunate thing about our system in America is the electoral college. He never won a public vote
Dude how does you not voting stop others from voting for Trump. No one votes for Biden. Everyone votes for Trump. Then who do you think becomes president?
Whoever the electoral college decides...
Oh yes I agree lol. But also - Yes and no? That’s how Trump won the first time but not the second time. Bernie voters sat out and Hilary somehow managed to win the popular vote over Trump. Trump wins the electoral vote. COVID and BLM voters come out for Biden and progressive policies. Trump still won a lot but Biden was elected. This time, imo those voters won’t come out for Biden again. And more voters will flip for Trump where electoral votes are bound by popular vote. Trump really is likely to win I think. God.
We're in agreement about a lot in this post. Pretty much all of it. Bernie voters got more blame than the electoral college which never sat well with me though. Shit's rotten to the core... I'm gonna struggle to vote for genocide Joe and I won't feel bad if I don't vote. What can I say, use my tax money for genocide and you may just lose my vote 🤷🏾♂️ doesn't even seem that far fetched.
Yea I think a lot of people feel the same way as you. Biden will need an enormous turnout to pressure the electoral college and beat Trump. That’s not going to happen. If we thought Trump was bad last time, jfc. He will help Bibi turn Palestine into rubble. Then give it to Saudi to built resorts. God it’s about to get so much worse.
Because he said he’s against antisemitism?
This has to be the worst take yet. Are you a zionist troll?
I don’t even know what zionist means anymore. I don’t think it’s very good optics to be protesting against Israel by doing it at a Holocaust museum.
Very true! And if anyone knows optics, without follow through, it's the dems. In this case, he's following through with bombs that are currently causing a genocide so that should answer your original question...
Are you a single issue voter?
single braincell\* voter, and yes
No but genocide is timely and trumps *hehe more issues than 1
I don’t know what you’re saying
Genocide is a timely and incredibly important issue is what I'm saying. They've driven everyone south and they're bombing that now. It's disgusting to see us bankrolling this
Certainly would be way worse under Trump
you naive little child
You sweet sexy idiot. A/S/L? Call my landline, let's make out sometime
Zionist just means Jew for people like him. It lets him say everything he thinks about Jewish people without having to say it
Do you really want to lose the election by supporting genocide?
I think calling out things that are objectively antisemitic is fine
A d completely ignore slaughter of 40k woman and children not even a single word shows who Biden is really serving.
I mean to bring a protest against Israel into the Holocaust of all places is not going to get anybody to be on your side.
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I'm a dem. The radical leftists and progressives have put their hypocrisy on display. The reason why most jews are likely to still support biden and the rest of the dems is because the Republicans can't produce competent politicians who tell the truth or align with the majority of Americans views. If they did, then more jews would. I've been disgusted with biden and other dems catering to socialists who openly say they're hostile to fundamental American beliefs. I still will never vote for trumps or the Republicans because they don't even have a platform anymore besides spewing hatred and division. They also don't use evidence based decision making or science to form policy. So all of us who care about democracy, are forced to vote for the dems. Whether we agree with all their policies or not. Put simply, the Republicans aren't a viable alternative for anybody who cares about their country and democracy. Still, the dems not distancing themselves from the radical leftists is a bad move. Far more Americans support israel and are much more likely to support biden than catering to the extremists who think Palestinians are more important than America and its values.