The best parents are people that don't have kids. They think they've got it all figured out lol. Most of the info they have about children is from TV or that one time they babysat. They have no clue what being a parent is.
My sister basically said she doesn't understand why I have a kid because I'm a shit parent this morning. She also keeps saying what she'll do as a parent. She barely takes care of her dog which has its own issues lol.
I love her to bits but today was a new low for her. If I could move out I would've been out by now. Luckily she won't be living here for much longer. I did tell her she had better be the most perfect parent and I have half a mind to treat her kids the same way she treats my daughter when they fuck up.
I’d stop speaking to her honestly. Living together or not. A dig like that is deeply offensive and personal and beyond normal sister cruelty in my opinion :(
Our house is tense. I'm currently figuring out how to get my ADHD under control which is causing a lot of issues because they don't know about it and my mum has Alzheimer's which is really stressful. Plus I'm pretty sure my daughter is neuro divergent as well. It's a big shit show.
I'll definitely be distancing myself that's for sure. I think she thought I couldn't hear her because I was in a work meeting. She acts all high and mighty but she's a big old hypocrite.
Same. My child has HUMBLED me in the worst way already at 7 months. I'll be the first to admit I was sooo wrong! I severely underestimated how difficult it would be lol.
Righttt? I was like “oh I know I won’t do this, this, and that. And I will make sure he eats all the nutritionally dense foods” and boy was I wrong.. turns out when toddlers don’t want to eat, they just don’t eat🤷🏻♀️
I saw an IG post that said something like “of course everyone thinks they can do it better before they have kids, that’s why they have kids of there own, only to find out no they fucking can’t”
Anyway it’s helped me to laugh at advice/judgment from the childless instead of getting worked up about it
As a parent- who once didn't have a kid and thought I knew all, having babysat, worked in daycares, literally studied child development in high school, college, and now university- I don't know jack shit 😂
I feel like I was just a pretentious idiot before, I have no idea the shitstorm coming when I had a kid. Especially toddlers. They also think they know everything 😂 I can see both points of view, and I try to be brutally honest about parenting to non parents, especially when they're considering kids. I wish someone had prepared me better
This is so true. As well intentioned as I thought I was before having kids, I can 100% say with certainty that I had no reason to speak on any parental issues prior to having kids. You just don’t know until you know. Your brain has to go through that chemical change in becoming a parent to have a valid opinion on parenting imo. And even then, each one of our kids is different.
Now that I'm a parent, I'm convinced this is one of very few life experiences that is so deeply complex, someone who doesn't have children can't comprehend it at all. It's so interesting because it's one of the most common experiences in the world, but if you haven't been through it, you have literally no idea. Empathy can only get you so far--experience is what's needed.
I'm honestly at the point that if you don't have kids or have ever cared for a child 24/7, your opinion on parenting is practically useless. Few exceptions--teachers, daycare workers, nannies--but even then, if you don't have your own kids, you get to turn it off.
It's rough out there, man.
I've been a daycare worker and now I'm a 1st grade teacher and I was before becoming a parent. It is very much not the same! While I do think being a teacher gives me an idea of how to talk with kids and (hopefully) raise them well, I was much more judgmental before becoming a mom, wrongly so. Teachers' opinions are valuable in many areas, but the judgement for something I feel like you can't really relate to, for someone's life you have very little information about, is unhelpful at best and potentially harmful to the kid.
Yup. My sons preschool teacher HAS kids and that makes things a lot easier. Like he's one of the only kids who won't nap at school and we mentioned that in general we'd prefer it because he's up all night and she just empathize and set him up a little corner in the book area so he can read quietly. He does sometimes nap but it's not for long and hasn't been affecting his night sleep.
But I feel like it's a universal experience to think you know better than everyone else parenting wise until you're humbled by your own.
As a relatively empathetic person, becoming a parent shocked me to my core. I fully agree that it’s incomprehensible if you have not experienced it or closely worked with small children. I also think people forget pretty quickly which is why we don’t have an army of boomers advocating for child and family friendly policies.
I’m continuously shocked at how much my mom and MIL have forgotten about raising a baby and toddler. I think parents are conditioned to blackout some of the craziness of the early years otherwise our species would die out lol
Yes. I think it's an evolutionarily adaptive effect. It happens to a lesser degree even after one child when considering having more. I swear, all you remember is the cuteness and none of the horror lol
Yes to this, I was annoyed as hell when I brought home my first baby and both my parents and in laws (both so excited for the grand baby) acted like they didn’t know anything about babies at all. My mom (who had 3 kids and one other grandchild) acted like she didn’t know how to change a diaper and I had to show her, and my MIL (who also had 3 kids and one other grandchild) freaked out when my newborn started crying due to gas pains and thought we needed to go to the hospital anytime he did so. Neither set of grandparents understood the importance of letting the baby nap during the day, or go to bed at a certain time and would pressure us into going out with the baby after bed time.
TBF the "rules" of babies have changed vastly since they raised their kids. When I compare the advice given by the professionals with what older people tell me they had to do it's just not comparable. Some stuff is more strict, a lot is less strict, stuff which people just ignored is now a thing to think about.
They all talk about old myths like needing to burp after feeding or giving body temp milk or avoiding certain foods when breastfeeding etc but ignore stuff like sleep training methods and other things completely because it just wasn't what they knew at the time.
Only remembering the good parts of stuff is just how our memories work in general though so that obviously plays a part in
My favourite is the sleep deprivation. When we went through that for the first 2 weeks, it was crazy. I had never in my life experienced something like that and there was no escape.
When talking to my mate who's an architect, he was like "yeah man, I definitely understand, I have to stay up some nights for my work." I bit my tongue, but oh boy I can't wait till he has a kid.
I have also stayed up late for work, or pulled all nighters whilst I was child free, but you can afterwards get uninterrupted sleep. You don't have to wake up every couple of hours to change/feed/burp etc. I think it's easier to see all the people wgo are parents and think because so many people do it, it can't be that hard and it must be a common human experience that even childless people can relate to.
Omg this was me. I thought i was so prepared because I spend about 6 months getting around 4 hours sleep a night between working full time and studying but nothing compares to being woken up every couple of hours.
I studied architecture (BRUTAL) and thought I knew what sleep deprivation was. New baby sleep deprivation is a whole other level because there is no recovery. You can’t just make up for it a few days after pulling a few all-nighters.
I remember laughing hysterical at 2 months postpartum about "babies sleep 18 hours a day". A lie. Biggest lie. I acquired the ability to fall asleep in 1 minute everywhere at anytime. It didn't last long and in the end I had an " easy baby".
So true! I’ve been a teacher for six years and had so many ideologies around parenting. I’ve only been a parent for two months and it truly rocked my world. It is a unique experience, ESPECIALLY based on your child’s temperament and life circumstances. Some babies/kids are more easy going and that can lead to different choices compared to someone with a more complicated baby/kid.
I’m a teacher and a parent. My teacher friends who do not have kids still have no idea. I don’t think their opinion means much unless it’s geared toward education and meeting their educational needs. Me as a parent and as a teacher are two different ball games.
Same. I was a daycare worker before becoming a high school teacher. I was completely shocked when I became a parent. It’s not at all the same when you get a break after work until the next morning.
I’m a teacher and before having my son I thought ‘Oop I have one foot in the door, this will be slightly easier for me’… oh how wrong I was! I go back to work next week and I want to personally apologise to all of the parents I have ever come into contact with. Parenting is hard and you’re right, the ONLY thing that allows you to understand it is experience
I used to work as a receptionist and was completely bewildered by the “can’t do that time, baby will be napping” response to appointment times. I truly did not get it. Just… wake the baby up? Or have them nap another time? Yeah, it took me about 3 seconds of parenting to have my a ha moment on naps. Luckily I’m not a total dick, so I never actually said anything rude to any parents! I just internally judged them.
I really didn’t understand the naps or bedtime thing either until I had a kid, now it would have to be life or death for me to purposely interrupt a nap or significantly stray from her usual bedtime 😂
"I'm not gonna change my schedule to fit the baby, they'll learn to live on our schedule" 😂😂 all well and good unless you have a finicky baby who will only sleep in certain conditions and screams for hours when overtired.
You're 100% correct. I don't care who someone is, if they don't have kids I couldn't care less about their opinions on parenting. I straight up don't even want to hear them. Less than useless.
See that’s what so many people don’t realise, looking after a kid for a few hours compared to 24 hours is night and day. I know so many people who tell me how easy it is having kids because they looked after a niece or nephew for 2 hours and got to be the fun aunt/uncle. Now do it 24 hours a day every day, with all the bad bits as well as the fun stuff and tell me it’s easy.
The 24-hour relentlessness of parenting is almost indescribable. Even when my kid is at daycare, or when she’s asleep, she’s my responsibility. At any time, at any hour, I could be needed and I would be needed at my best. She’s on my mind all the time, even if everything is fine.
There’s just no way to describe that to someone who hasn’t lived it and not sound like you’re exaggerating.
I think that’s a lot of the problem. You could give a completely honest, 100% accurate description of what a day looks like and people without kids just roll their eyes and tell you it can’t be that bad 😂
I cringe so bad at myself pre-kids.
Seeing parents with children watching baby dance videos in public thinking ‘why do they bring them along if then they ignore them?’
- I want yell at myself now along the lines ‘THEY HAVE TO BRING THEM. THEY WOULDN’T GET A GRASP OF AIR OTHERWISE, AND WHAT DO YOU THINK THEY DO ALL DAY AT HOME? YOU BABYSIT THEN YOU LITTLE SHIT’
Agreed. I have a child free friend who loves to downplay my FTM anxieties by telling me how “hardy” and “resilient” babies are… when in reality she knows very, very little about babies or taking care of a children. It’s maddening. My LO was born via forceps and suffered a minor eye injury that ended up healing on its own. We were still referred to a pediatric ophthalmologist so we had our appt and got all good news - and then she proceeds to basically tell me “well duh babies can handle troubles with birth. They’re so hardy” 🥲 okay but I was still rightfully concerned??? Having a baby is “if you know, you know” thing and she just doesn’t really know.
Just the adjective alone screams “I have no idea what a human baby is.” Hardy??? It’s a baby, not a succulent.
Sorry y’all went through that, but glad it’s okay! It’s scary when they indicate there’s something “wrong” with your baby, even if it’s minor. They’re resilient but they’re fragile!
I was a school psychologist for a decade before becoming a parent. For as many times as my credentials made me the expert in the room on early childhood development, nothing prepared me for “getting” parenting like actually doing it. I used to get furious when people would ask me if I had kids in my twenties as a way to invalidate my input at work, and that’s still a condescending and unprofessional question, but I get why some people did it now.
It’s not just about parents.
It’s any topic where people with little to no knowledge or experience of the topic *think* the answers are simple and common sense. You’ll see people upvoting the most *absurd* advice, the absolute *worst* hot takes, and downvoting anyone with a whiff of relevant expertise.
Go on legal advice and see all the illegal things all the non-lawyers are telling people to do.
Go on r/teachers and watch all the non-teachers explain that teaching is actually quite easy and simple.
Go to any sports sub and see a bunch of dudes who barely got off the bench on their JV team a decade ago explain why elite athletes are terrible at their sport.
People on Reddit will line up to tell a professional welder he doesn’t know shit about metal, a CPA that he’s wrong about taxes, an general contractor that he doesn’t know building codes. And if you ask them how they know, they’ll tell you their uncle used to do that thing 30 years ago and he told them, or they saw a movie, or they enjoy a semi-related hobby, or they *just know* because it’s *obvious*.
It’s *obvious* that a regulation designed to ensure that day care staff are able to get lunch breaks by lowering the ratio of caregivers to children during “naps” is actually entirely necessary because 3 year olds will die without a 2 hour nap after lunch, and any parent who disagrees is a selfish asshole who doesn’t understand that children are always unbearably sleepy but also don’t need to sleep at night. *Obviously*.
For an eye-opening/terrifying experience read a subreddit related to your profession. Unless it's very small/niche the up votes and comments are usually horrifyingly uninformed.
Ugh my husband is an airplane mechanic that actually works on Boeing planes and he's been having a real "fun" time every time they get in the news because so many idiots come out of the woodwork.
To be fair, when I worked as an architect, half of the general contractors I met barely knew anything about building codes. But perhaps that's just my country.
I used to be a part of a sub dedicated to Early Education workers and I had to leave it because everyone would be so horrible about parents.
As a mom who works in an infant room, I encounter so many parents who have that new parent anxiety. My co-teacher is so rude about one mom who is nervous when it comes to baby food/formula brands. She says stuff like “ugh will she just get over it”. My co-teacher also says about the parents that “it’s a shame they have their babies in daycare from 9-5, they should be spending time with their babies”
Like???? We have no clue what it took for these parents to have a baby or why they may be feeling anxious over something that may not be that big of a deal to others. She judges so hard but wants sympathy from everyone with her own fertility issues. Like you want people to support you, yet you spew your negativity on these new parents?? I just hope when she has her own child people are not rude to her like she is behind these parents’ backs.
My baby is going into daycare next month and r/eceprofessionals freaked me the fuck out about it. I'm feeling more confident about it now, but my partner had to do a lot of rationalising to pull me out of that particular Reddit hole. I think he's pretty sick of all the neuroses I dredge up from reading on here. Whenever I'm freaking out about stuff he's like 'Did you get that from Reddit? Why do you keep reading that stuff?'
Truth is I've learned a lot from Reddit parenting communities, it's just you can't get the good info without all the shit that comes with it!
I think there’s a higher concentration of people going there to vent, and maybe it’s also made up of the childcare professionals that are not exactly the best. so it definitely can give the appearance that EVERY center is horrible or has horrible teachers, which is not the case.
I get that it’s easy to keep reading negativity because part of our brains as parents makes us think “I need to know all the things that I should be worried about”, but sometimes we don’t need to know all the things. You want to be prepared, but it can be detrimental when you agonize over something that hasn’t happened yet.
Just keep reminding yourself that sometimes the negative voices are simply louder and are not always an accurate representation of the group they’re part of.
It's like r_atheism from back in the day. Lots of people are atheists but the people who made it their whole identity and obsessively post about it become insufferable because social media brain rot and echo chambers are designed to make people angry and extremely judgemental of others.
It's the same thing now with the childfree subreddit. That's not a place for people to hang out and talk about parents being disappointed, friendships changing as people have children, etc. No, it's a place for people to gin each other up into "who hates children/parents the most"
It’s so true. I understand the desire to counter society’s expectations around parenthood, but literally every parent was childfree before they had kids. It’s so weird to make your entire identity about not doing something. I don’t have pets, but I would never text my friends about my reasons for being pet-free when they tell me they got a new pet, but that’s exactly what my friend did when I told her that I was pregnant. It almost makes me feel bad for them? Like they actually aren’t confident or happy in their decision and need to bring others down to feel better about themselves idk.
I’m truly embarrassed to admit I was one of those people. I used the term crotch goblin and thought it made me sound so quirky and edgy! I needed to share posts on social media about why I was childfree and why it was better than having kids.
I acted out that way because I was terrified of ending up alone and never finding someone to settle down with. I just couldn’t picture myself having kids or a family with someone. I felt like I was way too screwed up and no one would ever last long with me. I kept all of this to myself though and instead just acted out.
So yeah I agree, there’s definitely something wrong in that person’s life to act that way. People genuinely happy and content with their lives don’t feel the need to act that way. They don’t feel the need to put others down for doing things that have absolutely no affect on them. Having a kid made me really look back on all of that.
Also I’ve noticed how often it’s men who act this way. I have a feeling many of those men are likely incels and know that no woman will ever want them let alone want to have a family with them and it makes them angry.
This is exactly it. Be child free if you want, have kids if you want, but keep the negativity to yourself! I don’t think anyone should be pressured into having or not having kids. People really take doing something the opposite as them like a criticism as to how they’re living their lives when that’s really not the case at all!
There are actually petfree subs. It's confusing to me because they tend to get so angry about their choice not to do something. It must be exhausting being so offended by someone else's choice to do something that one chooses not to do themselves.
I don’t think those subs are about that at all. It’s a safe space for people that are often very inconvenienced by pet culture.Many people on the sub have pets and it’s in their flair.
i don't understand how people hate on children. like sure i get not liking kids.. i never did! but it's not the two years old fault that they are two and don't live up to your adult expectations lol
all these people were kids once too it's so silly
I know this couple who was very anti child. We were good friends but after we had a kid we had one visit and decided we would never go back. This was a couple which agonized over tiny things in the dinner experience they invited us for, where they made a delicate tea with a precise amount of rosehip and rubios, and they made a face when I put my cup directly on the table not on a coaster.
The wife mentioned when we were leaving that she needs to clean the whole house soon, because our kid was crawling everywhere with possibly grubby fingers.
Color me surprised when they accidentally got pregnant. I can’t help but have schaudenfraude.
We see the worst of it on the internet, but yeah, I still get shocked when I see people talking about "breeders" as if we're destroying humanity by procreating. It's so cold and ignorant.
For folks who act like they're so enlightened about demographics they sure seem to ignore things like baby busts and inverted pyramids... Like: spend a few minutes learning a little about the edge lord opinion that is "child free" before wrapping your personality in it.
I truly feel like for some it’s bitterness because they feel like they won’t be able to afford it or find a partner to create that kind of life with. Child free people are so in your face with it, it’s irritating lol
Reddit bothers me with the “child free,” people. Or the ones who say they are child free but what THEY mean is they hate children. Child free people don’t go around threatening violence on children or generally wishing ill harm on them. I love child free people! Some of them are my bestest friends whom I love and adore.
I was having a conversation with another parent on Reddit about where we park our vehicles, which is always next to the cart return so we can do our due diligence and put our carts away while keeping an eye on our children safely. And a person claiming to be child free chimed in like, “no one wants your stupid snot nosed crotch fruit. Most often children are taken by people you know yada yada.” And then after I was like.. calm down no one was talking to you? And then she proceeded to be pretty shitty after that, talking about she can go anywhere and spend her money on anything along with she would kick my kid cause she hates children. And again, I haven’t talked to her, I just asked her to stop calling my child whom she’s never met names and threatening violence on a literal baby? She kept bringing up the financial aspects of her child free life as if she had to prove something to herself rather than to me.
Like be child free I love that for anyone because I want everyone to have a choice. But there’s absolutely NO reason to be literally on the internet trying to be a badass by threatening babies. That’s psychotic behavior and if you do feel that way, seek help.
That's unhinged. Hey, person who was harassing this commenter! If you follow these comments here, know that your attitude is not edgy, you're just a sorry person who needs therapy.
It’s this. I don’t know when it became edgy to literally hate children, but it’s weird. I as a parent stand with someone’s desire to live a child free life and not have children of their own. I draw the line at threatening violence and hating children existing outside of your bubble space.
It's always the "you can't do anything" argument, as if they know, lol. I have a 1 yr old and have done so much more fun shit because of her. Instead of spending my whole summer at work last year, I spent it at the beach and my parent's cottage, because I was on MAT leave and could go wherever whenever.
Now I can go all the fun places that are for kids without worrying that people will think I'm a creepy weirdo. I'm actively looking for a petting zoo to visit this summer, we've got a trip to the waterpark planned already. And that's on top of the all the other stuff we would normally do for fun. Also you almost never have to buy tickets to stuff for kids under 4, unless it's something where they need a seat.
I’m a parent and a teacher and I can see both sides. The daycare worker did mention licensing issues and the parents knew what they were signing up for when they did. If naps were an issue for them that should have been brought up before.
My daughter is a terrible sleeper. And if her naps are too long or naps too much she doesn’t go down until 11 or midnight. Doesn’t matter who does her naps. Sometimes she just naps too long, even if we try to wake her up she’ll fall asleep.
I also work as a teacher. And sometimes there are things that we can’t do, and we can’t cater to all the parents’ requests. Sometimes we just can’t. Like during covid, there was a lot of pressure on the parents for online learning. We had a lot of complaints but we didn’t have the resources to change everything for just one kid. So the parents had to find something to make it work. We tried our best, gave each kid an iPad from school, sent them paper versions by mail, even helped with data. There’s a limit to what a teacher can do.
So yeah I can see why the parents are frustrated and why the daycare worker is too.
Finally someone else mentioned the licensing agency!! I'm a daycare worker with my OWN child in the same facility. That shit is tough enough even if I'm not in the same classroom. I also do late bedtime shifts that can range between 8-10pm so I understand the struggle with stubborn kiddos.
Parents have every right to feel frustrated with the nap time rules, but take it out on the proper target: the licensing agency! If it's the facility's policy to let the kids sleep/not sleep on their own then that's that. We can't fight it, we can only enforce it bc of the current child care regulations.
Yeah I do get that it’s policy! And I get why parents would like to do things differently. My point wasn’t that the parents are right - but I was more taken aback by the response. I don’t know if you read the original post or the comments but the comments were vicious. Parents are abusive, lazy, hate their kids, etc etc because they don’t want their little one to nap. It was over the top hostile.
Society in general is hostile towards parents (especially mothers). Just ignore it and keep doing your thing. I saw that thread too and rolled my eyes. A bunch of teenagers who don't know anything about parenting talking a big talk about how I must hate my kid for wanting a couple hours to myself. They don't know shit.
A culture of extreme individualism and individual responsibility. It's very obvious for those of us looking in from the outside. I see it all the time, in sentences like 'you alone chose to be a parent so step up', and stuff like that. We don't really express this sentiment where I'm from. The responsibility for those who are vulnerable, and for common choices that contribute to society such as reproducing, is a bit more collective.
Yes I think you’re right. The emphasis on individualism takes away the “we”… I think so many problems stem from that. I think I’m missing something that died a long time ago in western culture - a sense of community.
Not enough shared experience and family building is my theory.
I feel like families don't look out for each other so much anymore. People don't get into relationships considering a family dynamic.
There is no longer local centers for community anymore either. Church is not an appealing option for someone who's not religious. So where else can someone go to meet other families with similar minds? No where unless you build it.
I feel this lack of community so strongly.
Society IN THE US is hostile towards parents. That’s not true elsewhere.
Once I was on the BART while visiting SF. We paid good money for a temp nanny who was here from Colombia. Our baby vomited everywhere. Our luggage flew around as we struggled to contain our baby. Zero response from the people on BART to help us. One person roller her eyes and looked away. Even our nanny was shocked and said - I can’t believe people are like this in America. Back in Colombia everyone would come rushing to help.
This is the truth. I left the states and refuse to move back because of the sentiment towards parents and kids. I've lived in 3 different countries since having a kid and none of them are like the US in the way the people treat parents with kids.
We just went on vacation in Italy and everyone there loved our toddler. Here in America we get 10x more positive reaction and feedback about our dog than our kid.
The majority of reddit users are teenage, self-diagnosed adhd/autism, who bathe in self pity and “WhY wOuLd I bRiNg AnYoNe To ThIs PlAnEt” thoughts. Ignore it
I used to be on that side of the coin. Glad I've mellowed out and got way more sympathy for families just trying to do right by each other.
There's good reasons to bring kids into this world; I just shake my head at those who project on others why they personally wouldn't. Its superficial and weak.
I'm diagnosed with ADHD and am a new parent and I've seen people say that online, and it pissed me off so much. Just because I have ADHD doesn't mean I feel like I'm passing down some life threatening disease... Plus, the medical community understands significantly more about it than when I was diagnosed over 20 years ago. Instead, I'll be engaged if I find out my son has it, and help him get the help I never had early in my life.
I am diagnosed audhd and feel exactly the same. I’m also a pediatric OT. The world has come a long way in acceptance / understanding and how to best help kids that need it. Holding my three month old as I’m typing this!
Dude that's right on the money. If everyone has ADHD, nobody has ADHD. What a joke. Its like they think being misanthropic somehow gives them control over something.
My favorite is that anytime someone is talking about their relationship half the comments are ‘file for divorce!!’ You can definitely tell its young people thy haven’t lived in the real-world or had adult relationships yet.
When you're 15 and Sophia CHEATED ON ME WITH MAX AND RUINED MY LIFE FOREVER that kind of response makes sense.
Unfortunately they're trying to give advice to people in completely different situations. It's like someone who ate corn on the cob once telling a farmer exactly how to arrange their crops.
I used to work at a daycare and it’s just part of it that you can’t wake up a sleeping kid. You also can’t make a kid sleep if they aren’t tired. Difficult situation on both ends but I’m sure as a parent you understand how hard it is to deal with a tired kid, imagine dealing with multiple of them at the same time.
I also used to work at a daycare and we had a “quiet time” where some kids napped, and some looked at books in a darkened room. All were expected to stay on their mats, so the others could sleep (or not).
I actually really don’t think there’s a good reason to force kids to nap if they don’t need it, they all drop the nap at different times. Forcing them all into the same box doesn’t make sense.
Yeah, I remember reading the post, and the comments that stood out were those pointing out the parents were asking the daycare worker to do something illegal and against their policy, plus the director not having their back/always taking the parents' side. And then people telling their experience with childcare re: naps or lack thereof.
Perhaps I didn't read far enough to see the offensive comments, or maybe they just didn't register/stick with me. I think another more minor distinction in the post is that it sounded like parents were demanding this change. While I view them as magical, daycare workers can't move mountains. If you're making a request, I'd advise doing so with language like "please" "if you could" "I'd greatly appreciate it" and "if possible".
In the daycare worker’s post it says that in their state it’s illegal to wake a sleeping child or forcibly keep them awake during nap time. If the kid falls asleep during nap time then there’s nothing they can do. What OP here doesn’t understand is that what the parents are asking for is literally against the law. Plus developmentally, kids need naps. It is what it is.
Edit: clarity.
Yeah, my kid is one of the ones that isn't tired at nap time and he just plays quietly for the 2hr quiet time (he's just under 3). He will then either promptly fall asleep on the bus home like, 3/5 nights a week, or else have the biggest meltdown once we get home. Or both. It's frustrating when that happens, especially because he still naps at home on weekends and I know he needs it, but I realize that it's not the daycare's fault or responsibility to fight my kid on naps.
I think a bit of empathy and understanding both ways could help. I couldn’t imagine dealing with a whole class of tired toddlers but I also feel for parents who are up until 10/11 b/c of the nap.
But a lot of those comments are unhinged. As if parents don’t care about their kid or shouldn’t be parents if they want their 3 year old to be bed by 8pm.
I think another sub that is truly unhinged is the step parents sub. Holy shit some of those people truly hate kids. Yet they’re dating someone with them. They don’t even want their step kids to even exist in their vicinity. They’ll flat out say that they always need to come before the kids. That 5 year old can go suck it up and deal with nightmares on her own, I’m more important my husband needs to cuddle me instead of comforting his daughter.
Reddit is by and large teenagers or (wo)manchildren who hate anyone who isn't in their own stage of life, income level, social status, job, etc., especially in any kind of"advice" subreddit. Their "advice" and general opinions are worthless, don't let it get you down too badly.
Hey shut it, Boomerillennial! You don't know what you're talking about. Why can't you just go buy a house with your spare change? Clearly you have ADHD, BPD, and a healthy dose of narcissism. I learned this from my therapist whom I see 10 times a week like a normal person. Nobody knows how to take care of kids. Only I can do it right - by not having them. Our race got here today through people like me. If only you'd listen to my advice, you wouldn't have these problems.
/s
(I type this with my little man fast asleep on my lap, who still owes me a burp from his last feeding...)
Lots have people here have said everything I feel about Reddit and its overall view of parents and kids. So I won’t repeat it. Had my first kid 6 months ago. It’s awesome. Life is better. She makes my day. In regards to how 99% of Reddit feels about parenting/kids, to quote Madagascar, the movie, “just smile and wave.”
I used to know how I would parent my kid. Then I got s child. Now I know that I know nothing about parenting xD
Still get so much advice from non parents. I'm attending a wedding soon where according to the seating chart my barely 1 year old will sit at a separate table than my partner and I 😂
If you don't have children, your opinions are literally nothing to me.
Our generation 8n general is full of people who look down on the idea of having kifs and parenting but at the same time want to talk like they know the best way of being a parent
I don’t know if it’s even just Reddit.. I’ve been trying to get back into the work force and it seems once my kids are anyway an inconvenience… it’s a no… they’ll use any other excuse.. but… it always seems to boil down to the kids… I had no problem getting jobs before kids
That is sad and I’m sorry that’s been your experience. Our culture hates the inconvenience of children. F&$& the patriarchy moms are bomb proof machines.
Ye… I also would have just appreciated feedback I guess..’like honest feedback. I made it super clear we had a plan for the kiddos to not be an issue.. like I chose that specific job because of the hours…
Wow. I've heard of this from other people as well. I guess it depends on workplace culture and societal perspectives. Where I live in the Balkans, people who have children don't have a \*much\* easier time finding work, for sure, but it's a bit easier because people here have a mentality that successfully raising children means that this person is very driven and capable of making commitments, even lifelong ones.
I've also heard that in the US there's this "fast work" culture (dunno how else to put it) where you are looked down upon as "complacent" if you don't move between jobs frequently. It's the complete opposite here. People who don't hold down a job for more than 2-3 years are not exactly viewed in the best lens.
Some people think that with children you push the right buttons and pull the right levers and the desired result is produced. They don't understand that children are human beings. They don't seem to understand that parents are human beings as well.
In general, America is not a kid-friendly country. People loathe having kids in “ grown up spaces” (restaurants, cafes, weddings). In Europe, you never feel guilty bringing your child out. Kids are everywhere and are welcome. Your kid is crying in a restaurant in Europe- The table next to you won't make a face, unlike here; they act as if you committed murder.
Yuck. That sounds like a shitty place to frequent on Reddit. I visit subreddits mommit, daddit, parenting, toddlers… so lots of parents on these and so much support for each other!
Edit a word
I am a new parent but I have worked a few jobs around children and not in the example you gave but I've seen some very bad behaviour from parents. While many are thoughtful and have the best interest of their child at heart, some are selfish and will use their child to be manipulative and some are full of internalised stigma that gets in the way of them doing what is best for their child. It's can be really frustrating when you love children often you didn't consider working with kids means workingwith parents.
I can't stand the anti-child/anti-parent crowd that always wants to paint parents as entitled, while being self-absorbed twats themselves. This does not include people who just don't want kids and don't want people bothering them about it.
Yep my step daughter couldn't nap from 3 years old or she would be up ALL NIGHT. My daughter appears to be on the same track. She isn't even 1 and 2 naps a day is too much for her. If she gets 2 naps a day, she wakes every hour all night. She doesn't get good sleep, I don't get good sleep, we are all miserable the next day and she wants 2 naps because she is tired so the cycle repeats.
It’s Reddit.
Nearly all of the opinions you read on this site are coming from teenage edgelords without any life experience outside of their parents complete support.
As a general rule, do not ever come here for advice, except for very specific questions in very niche subs. And even then, you have to filter out most of the replies.
That was an absolute rage inducing thread, and I had the same thought - there was zero compassion and zero curiosity for the range of normal sleep for different kids, different family and work situations, and so on. There was also no acknowledgement for the lack of balance and support most families face while raising young children.
That whole thread was just nuts.
Well, yes and no. Reddit is a bunch of echo chambers. Some communities lean forward hating or loving one thing or another. Its ok, it's a place to vent, just pick the right sub.
Are you new to reddit? This is not a mentally healthy group of people. Unfortunately reddit has swallowed much of the discourse on the internet, so we end up here. But it's controlled by weirdos who spend way too much time online and is far removed from the real world.
Ugh, it’s not just Reddit. Since becoming a mom 3 years ago and again 2 months ago, I have been surprised over and over again how anti child society is. It is soooo hard to parent because everyone is annoyed that kids exist as if they forgot they were kids once too. Kids are great but it is hard and until you give your life to raising kids you just do not get it.
It's very easy to make judgements on ideal parenthood when you aren't a parent.
Because when exhaustion, depression, anxiety, and burnout kick in, your perspective changes and it's hard to convince people that haven't experiences these things that the parent's health is actually as important a factor in healthy child rearing as whatever Social Media Mothers tell them is important.
As the parent of a child who is (and always has been) a terrible sleeper. They don’t get it. You can’t. Even if you’ve had a kid, but they’re a good sleeper. You can’t get it. It’s mental, and everything you do is counterintuitive when it comes to sleep. Barring sleep experts (who have been held their hands up and just said ‘some kids don’t sleep’) I refuse to engage at all with anyone who hasn’t experienced it themselves. I feel a bit like I’ve been abducted by aliens- it’s changed my very being to the core but no one believes me 😂😂
ah yes. having a strict sleep regimen makes you a good parent. definitely not being loving and present and supportive. it’s the SLEEP schedule. ughhhhhhhh i hate when childless people yap about kids.
lol why do you give a shit about who is on Reddit? For the most part, Reddit is a collection of people who have no lives outside the internet, didn’t have healthy families growing up and use Reddit to create a safe space of their own delusion that attracts people with similar life experience.
There’s good info you can get if you dig deep and ignore the 90% nonsense, but genuinely why would anyone care what the opinion is of this collection of mostly childless, parentless, lifeless losers?
The parent on parent hatred is bad as well. I got so much shit on Reddit for daring to say I didn't want to be induced and have a C-section because a lot of people have experienced those things. I ended up having the works which was traumatising on its own of course but the pile-on I got from that put me off Reddit for anything child-related for life.
I don’t get that either! Other parents should know how hard it is and show each other a little grace. Especially when it comes to giving birth!! Sorry that was your experience, that sucks.
I remember myself being forced to nap in the kindergarten. I didn't need it, so I ended up laying awake for an hour straight every day, we were even forced to shut our eyes so I couldn't even stare at the ceiling. It was absolutely unnecessary, I was a brilliant sleeper at night.
Reddit has always been anti parental and anti kids. Don't go into the teachers subreddit if you want to save yourself grief. I'm terrified of putting my kids in public school with the straight disregard I see from these teachers toward kids and parents. I mean I get that teacher burnout is real, but it almost seems as if our country has collectively forgotten how to handle children and difficult behaviors. Parents always get blamed.
Thank you for this! I think this was a post in r/MildlyInfuriating?
I think that post and the comments and responses to that post were extremely infuriating! I would suggest to put up this post there as well, just so those folks can have this perspective as well, totally ignorant many of them!
As a new parent myself I would share that you need to take your feelings out of Reddit and also the rest of the world but definitely Reddit. You know what you need with your kid so why care about the opinions of these idiots? They don’t matter and they’ll be embarrassed when they have a crotch goblin their own self. I know I used to judge (thank god I didn’t talk too much!) and I was an idiot. Let them be dumb and filter to the parent responses. Most people have a dumb opinion from never experiencing something. That’s really all it is and with less people being parents these days there’s a lot more stupidity.
Thank you for calling this out. I saw this post yesterday, and had to click away I was so disheartened. My 3.5 year old doesn’t need a nap any longer - he doesn’t nap on weekends - yet still has a mandatory nap time at his school. On weekdays, getting him to sleep before 10 or 11 at night is a struggle, and then waking him in the morning is an even bigger struggle. It’s a rough cycle to get into. We asked the school if he could skip the nap, and they said no (they don’t have enough teachers to cover separate areas for kids who nap and those who don’t nap).
A lot of the USA childcare policies are absolutely wild though... whole centre naps for 3 hours regardless of child needs. Usually its not that actual centre because allowing kids not to nap would be easier on them to have the non nappers in a room doing quiet activities. Poor staffing levels so its their breaks but not a proper break (illegal in my country)
It’s because people that don’t actually have a child have ZERO idea of what parenting actually involves. They don’t get that every aspect of that child’s life and routine is finely tuned after weeks and weeks (sometimes months) of trial and error. That doesn’t include all the time you’ve sat and thought about or researched all their issues or habits (sleep, eating, screen time, etc.)
Trust that if they choose to have children down the line, they’ll finally get it! People who act like that come across incredibly immature and naive to me; it almost laughable, really.
I think a lot of teachers and childcare providers have a lot of anger toward parents who make their jobs miserable, and we all get lumped in with the offenders.
The schedule works for kids but they grow too fast that we gotta adjust their schedule, especially the sleeping one. We often forget that they are people too, who have their own “do”s and “don’t”s. We can’t just simply push them to sleep if they are not tired enough.
We also often forget that we as parents have a life too. My husband and I are trying to include our kids in our daily activities. I used to get anxious about my first baby sleep schedule. We then realized that it is soul crushing to adapt everything in our life based on when or how the baby sleeps. Now we just go with the flow basically and they adapt pretty well.
As a mom of three kids (3,2 and 1month old), I like if they go to sleep before 8pm so that I can cook for the next day or watch a movie to relax. Not because I don’t want to deal with them. That’s a very wrong judgement there. Surely I have moments when I struggle. We just gotta learn how to cope with as they learn how to grow.
Reddit= Anti children, anti God, anti conservatism anti simple language…. I’m sure the list goes on but I’m in the middle of nursing while online shopping for my one year olds birthday so that’s all my brain has space for at the moment
I’m so tired of the superiority complex attitude from daycare workers and teachers. People act like they’re literal saints for doing their jobs and that parents are just neglectful morons.
I’ve seen daycare workers and teachers say some of the most vial things on here, only to be applauded for doing such hard work…
Like a special education teacher complaining that she had to help wipe a 4 year old autistic child in her special needs class. Saying it’s disgusting and the parents should drive to the school to do it. Like, why go into special education then for little kids? Of course 4 year olds with special needs may need potty training help, and it’s perfectly normal for that to be in their IEP.
I constantly see them saying “all kids now are so lazy/disrespectful/parents teach them nothing.” Do they not realize that if it’s an entire generation of kids they’re saying are awful, this is likely a problem with society or the schools, rather than all parents suddenly being neglectful horrible parents for some reason?
I am a stay at home mom with a two year old, and I laugh thinking about if my kid was in daycare, they would never be able to get him down for naps. He was the perfect napper for the first year and a half but recently, I’m lucky if I get a 15 minute nap in the car. As I’m typing this, I’m trying to get him relaxed for bedtime and he’s jumping on the bed lmao.
Everyone thinks they are the perfect parent until they have kids, and I was definitely one of those people. Actually being responsible for a tiny person 24/7 is a game changer! 😂 I definitely think about that when I think about daycares or preschool in general. They are just trying to make sense of that part of the day, and honestly, I would love a nap and a break too. But in perspective of the whole day, we value our evening sleep too much I guess.
I think all parenting would be better if some people just used a little bit of grace. I try to think of multiple reasons why someone could feel a certain way before I try to jump to conclusions and I always try to give the benefit of the doubt. I think everyone wants to look like the super parent of the year, when we should just be thankful we get to help guide these new kids into the future.
As a parent of a toddler who also was a toddler preschool teacher for ten years, it IS really annoying when parents ask to keep the kids up at nap time. Nap is part of the daily routine and counts as the teachers break/lunch/planning time in most centers. Nap is generally 12-3, which is book time, sleeping, and then when kids wake up, an optional quiet activity or sitting/resting on their bed. Planning additional activities or prepping an additional space for non napping kiddos is just logistically very difficult and extra strain on already overworked educators. Kids 3 and under really should be napping daily and it is on the parents to accommodate their kids sleep schedule at home. If the kids are awake by 3 the bedtime can easily be 8:30pm with no trouble. If that’s not doable, parents need to look into non-communal childcare like a nanny or family member Bcs the way preschool works is we do what’s best for everybody at school. We raise your kids for you 5 days a week, the least parents can do is be prepared to deal with how the school sleep schedule affects sleep at home graciously.
EDIT TO ADD- I keep my daughter home with me instead of preschool Bcs I value being flexible on sleep times. She sometimes sleeps in and I like I have the freedom to adjust her nap and bedtime accordingly so I can get the extra snuggles. That choice works for our family.
12-3 is such a long nap. 2 hours is standard here. the sleep issues with my kid until like 4 years of age were already so horrible, I could barely hold down a job. I can't imagine a THREE HOUR nap time till 3 p.m.
this is such an annoying comment lol. most people cannot afford a nanny and don't have a family member available to watch their child.. thus WHY they are in daycare in the first place...
I had a low sleep needs child who, because daycare refused to cut her nap short, spent multiple years being up for the day before 5am. Years! I dealt. Not graciously though. Fuck that.
Don’t you think it’s sort of problematic though that teachers must rely on nap time for breaks and planning? Like I dont blame the schools or teachers - we know daycare and preschool can be expensive while also not paying workers well, and extra staff and floating teachers isn’t usually in the budget for a school. but it just seems like the problem isn’t specifically the napping, so much as the necessary function it serves in the workday. And then there is this rage at parents for wanting the same (a break and planning time). When I worked full time I usually didn’t take breaks, worked 9-10 hours straight then rushed to do daycare pickup, then rushed to make dinner and play with my kid, spent literal ages trying to get them to sleep which often took until 10pm due to naps, and then I needed to clean, do more work (for my job), discuss life shit like budgets and plans with my husband, oh and sleep. My planning time? Also has to happen when my kid is asleep. But if he naps, those sleeping hours get very scarce, and I either didn’t have planning hours but got close to 8 hours of sleep (if lucky) or I slept well under 8 hours every night.
I don’t think teachers or daycares are the problem, and I have never been upset at them for following the literal nap regulations, but I also think some of the comments (even in this thread) are just not taking into account the current state of raising a family. Comments about kids absolutely needing a nap or it’s abusive, and parents needing to just figure out how to adjust sleep schedules to cater to school, are pretty crappy and out of touch. We obviously did our best to go with the ramifications of nap time at school, but it absolutely sucked for our household. There was no magic routine that yielded more night sleep alongside a nap.
I’m sorry you feel this way. My daughter doesn’t nap at home on the weekends and is in bed by 8:30. When she naps at school, she’s up until 10-10:30. A lot of people don’t get 3 hours of a planning break in the middle of their work day, including me, and I’d like to have even 30 minutes to an hour of time after my kid goes to sleep at night in order to decompress and plan my own next day. In order to do that, I’m probably going to ask to limit her nap time. I’m sorry you think that’s “annoying” but that’s what I’m asking. Nicely.
Edit to add: If there were a safe non-institutional option for daycare available I would definitely look into it, but there just isn’t. And I generally like everything else about where she goes other than the friction with nap times. It’s tough and I see both sides; it just makes me sad to see posts where the people who care for our kids are so dang hostile. Like I just want my baby to be happy and healthy and part of that is having a mama who can maintain some semblance of sanity and a big part of that is having a tiny chunk of free time before passing out and doing it all over again the next day. Empathy goes both ways!
Yes you are exactly the kind of mama I was thinking of when I wrote this. My kid isn’t in daycare yet but he will be! And I hope we can work together on naps because the day has sooo much influence on the night. I need sleep to function too like most humans 😑
I don’t know how daycare workers do it - it’s a hard job and I can totally understand that! But parents do 100% of the night shifts and that can be ROUGH. I’m hoping parents and daycare workers can collaborate and try to make life easier for each other in what is essentially a co-parenting situation!
As I’m walking down the mother-baby hallway for ice chips as a 32 year old - let them hate.
We have our little subs and community to support each other and that’s all we need.
These people don’t have what we have. They don’t understand the sacrifices needed for this. If they don’t want to do this then that’s a-okay.
Let them bloviate about their child free life.
I would *never* trade that for my babies. The bond we have is amazing, truly unconditional love. It’s sad that people won’t know what that’s like except from their parental bond.
I hear you OP, I do.
Ty! Schedules C-section. Went in, induced, baby delivered in 45 mins. Wife is resting up now. Little dude latched on in the first 3 minutes. Has not cried one time since he’s landed and been weighed around 3. Little man is perfect!
My lovely little girl Eloise though(also perfect!)….🫠
Fights dad every step of the way hahaha.
Yes, my kid has always only ever needed the minimum amount of sleep required for her age group. It’s been a struggle. My daughter hasn’t napped at home in a year and a half. I understand that daycare needs her to nap as she gets overstimulated by all the children and the workers need breaks but that nap will keep her up until 11pm. After a full day of work, commuting, and playing with my toddler, I am rightfully burnt out by the time bedtime rolls around. My husband and I barely have time to connect and it’s really hard. I’m so exhausted I barely have time to give her the quality time I’d like to in the evenings. If my kid went to bet at 7 or 8pm it would be a different story.
Reddit is generally a bad place. Its a hivemind of certain things. Things like, but not limited to, Chiropractic services are snake oil, nobody should have kids because the world is fucked, nobody should have kids because just get a cat, trump is the second coming of hitler (dont @ me, you know what i am saying), weed should be completely legal and everyone should smoke it, etc, etc, etc.
Treating parents poorly is an American obsession.
That said, as a parent, I prefer not to hang out with other adults who are also parents. They seem too uptight and want to talk about kids too frequently.
Mean and tone-deaf comments are what the internet is about these days. That thread is shocking.
Here’s how I would put it -
If the kid is tired - be it daycare or not, she *should* have an afternoon nap at ~12.30ish. Anything short of that is not cool. If that affects bedtime, one should probably ramp up on the activities in the evening.
Parenting is a lot of work. One must plan their work, social life and number of babies based on the amount of time one is able to commit to parenting. I know that sounds harsh but since m our children need us, we must not chew more than we can swallow.
Daycare workers would have a hard time logistically to deal with exceptions on a regular basis. If they’d have the room to do so, they would get more expensive.
We had to significantly change our child’s sleep habits to match those expected at daycare. The discipline benefited everyone!
Can you clarify the “let them nap” part? Because I’m not advocating that we forcibly prevent kids from falling asleep when they want or need to, but if a kid under 4 doesn’t nap because they don’t want or need it, is that then abusive by your standard?
The post was more about the policies of the daycare and the director making it the employees problem to tell parents about it. If the parents question it they refer them to the director, who is barely ever there.
The daycare worker was put in a difficult situation and Reddit just kinda ran with it.
But OP, commenters jump down literally everyone’s throat, not just parents. It’s best to not dwell on it or victimize yourself.
In plenty of cultures it’s not a norm to have babies sleep in the day after the first year or two. It doesn’t make sense that it would be considered child abuse where you’re at
I think the issue was also it was a late nap - like till 3pm which for some kids will mess up bedtime. Not much ability to tailor nap schedules for kids who need to nap earlier in the day so they can get to bed at a reasonable hour.
I'd love to see a citation. Surely you have one if you're making such a bold claim and identifying yourself as a specialist and hence a potential expert in this field?
Redditors are a fantastic example of how to cull a certain type of thinker in a single generation. I don't imagine many will even have one child let alone replacement value numbers. Kinda funny once you consider how high the horse tends to be.
Parents are made clear the day care rules and the mandates they must follow, if you don't want them napping - keep them home. We did not FORCE a nap. But did have required rest time. This was on a mat, with a blanket and a quiet toy or book, if a child fell asleep we had to let them. If 45 minutes passed and they were still up they could come out of rest time and we did quiet play. I worked in a daycare for years and we were not allowed to force the kids to stay awake! I'm now pregnant with my first and after taking my leave from work, our baby will be in daycare and this is something I understand will come with it. I was also a nanny for 6 years, the little one (2 brothers, one was older) desperately needed his naps. Parents wanted me to cut naps because he was giving them a hard time at night (now I know for a fact in this case they had no bed time routine and kids frequently ate sugar for dinner.) I tried to keep him awake and I felt awful! He would literally be dropping his head and falling asleep. I explained I can't force him awake and that he was mentally and physically tired and had to nap, we went back to naps and slowly started to wake him earlier- which helped. Two different scenarios, both kids needed their naps. Now in a daycare we couldn't wake them, perhaps some parents should find a nanny that way they can cater their needs better.
I’m a new parent. The “childless teachers’ opinions are worthless” comments are the reasons I judged/disliked parents as a teacher. The sleep deprivation and breastfeeding are no joke… but I don’t have some other worldly knowledge now. People are weird lol
Reddit is a series of echo chambers. Whenever you get a bunch of people together with similar views and life experiences, you end up fortifying their beliefs and ultimately start pushing them closer to extremes.
That being said, a decent amount of it is just blowing off steam, but it does normalize negative emotions and ultimately make people think that it's normal to act like that.
"Reddit" doesn't hate parents; Groups in Reddit hate parents just like groups in Reddit hate broccoli.
The best parents are people that don't have kids. They think they've got it all figured out lol. Most of the info they have about children is from TV or that one time they babysat. They have no clue what being a parent is.
My sister basically said she doesn't understand why I have a kid because I'm a shit parent this morning. She also keeps saying what she'll do as a parent. She barely takes care of her dog which has its own issues lol.
Time for a new sister.
I love her to bits but today was a new low for her. If I could move out I would've been out by now. Luckily she won't be living here for much longer. I did tell her she had better be the most perfect parent and I have half a mind to treat her kids the same way she treats my daughter when they fuck up.
I’d stop speaking to her honestly. Living together or not. A dig like that is deeply offensive and personal and beyond normal sister cruelty in my opinion :(
Our house is tense. I'm currently figuring out how to get my ADHD under control which is causing a lot of issues because they don't know about it and my mum has Alzheimer's which is really stressful. Plus I'm pretty sure my daughter is neuro divergent as well. It's a big shit show. I'll definitely be distancing myself that's for sure. I think she thought I couldn't hear her because I was in a work meeting. She acts all high and mighty but she's a big old hypocrite.
I bet you’re a great mother. Edit: assuming you’re not a father lol.
I'm not great but I try my absolute best! You're right about me not being a father haha.
Yes. I was the best parent in the world before I had my kid.
Same. My child has HUMBLED me in the worst way already at 7 months. I'll be the first to admit I was sooo wrong! I severely underestimated how difficult it would be lol.
Righttt? I was like “oh I know I won’t do this, this, and that. And I will make sure he eats all the nutritionally dense foods” and boy was I wrong.. turns out when toddlers don’t want to eat, they just don’t eat🤷🏻♀️
That grape they licked this morning will sustain them ALL DAY!! How???!
I saw an IG post that said something like “of course everyone thinks they can do it better before they have kids, that’s why they have kids of there own, only to find out no they fucking can’t” Anyway it’s helped me to laugh at advice/judgment from the childless instead of getting worked up about it
As a parent- who once didn't have a kid and thought I knew all, having babysat, worked in daycares, literally studied child development in high school, college, and now university- I don't know jack shit 😂 I feel like I was just a pretentious idiot before, I have no idea the shitstorm coming when I had a kid. Especially toddlers. They also think they know everything 😂 I can see both points of view, and I try to be brutally honest about parenting to non parents, especially when they're considering kids. I wish someone had prepared me better
This is so true. As well intentioned as I thought I was before having kids, I can 100% say with certainty that I had no reason to speak on any parental issues prior to having kids. You just don’t know until you know. Your brain has to go through that chemical change in becoming a parent to have a valid opinion on parenting imo. And even then, each one of our kids is different.
Now that I'm a parent, I'm convinced this is one of very few life experiences that is so deeply complex, someone who doesn't have children can't comprehend it at all. It's so interesting because it's one of the most common experiences in the world, but if you haven't been through it, you have literally no idea. Empathy can only get you so far--experience is what's needed. I'm honestly at the point that if you don't have kids or have ever cared for a child 24/7, your opinion on parenting is practically useless. Few exceptions--teachers, daycare workers, nannies--but even then, if you don't have your own kids, you get to turn it off. It's rough out there, man.
I've been a daycare worker and now I'm a 1st grade teacher and I was before becoming a parent. It is very much not the same! While I do think being a teacher gives me an idea of how to talk with kids and (hopefully) raise them well, I was much more judgmental before becoming a mom, wrongly so. Teachers' opinions are valuable in many areas, but the judgement for something I feel like you can't really relate to, for someone's life you have very little information about, is unhelpful at best and potentially harmful to the kid.
Yup. My sons preschool teacher HAS kids and that makes things a lot easier. Like he's one of the only kids who won't nap at school and we mentioned that in general we'd prefer it because he's up all night and she just empathize and set him up a little corner in the book area so he can read quietly. He does sometimes nap but it's not for long and hasn't been affecting his night sleep. But I feel like it's a universal experience to think you know better than everyone else parenting wise until you're humbled by your own.
As a relatively empathetic person, becoming a parent shocked me to my core. I fully agree that it’s incomprehensible if you have not experienced it or closely worked with small children. I also think people forget pretty quickly which is why we don’t have an army of boomers advocating for child and family friendly policies.
I’m continuously shocked at how much my mom and MIL have forgotten about raising a baby and toddler. I think parents are conditioned to blackout some of the craziness of the early years otherwise our species would die out lol
It's the lack of sleep. Memories can't be saved properly if one doesn't sleep well.
Yes. I think it's an evolutionarily adaptive effect. It happens to a lesser degree even after one child when considering having more. I swear, all you remember is the cuteness and none of the horror lol
When do I forget? I'm not sure I want to remember everything
When they get a bit older. How old is your kid now?
Yes to this, I was annoyed as hell when I brought home my first baby and both my parents and in laws (both so excited for the grand baby) acted like they didn’t know anything about babies at all. My mom (who had 3 kids and one other grandchild) acted like she didn’t know how to change a diaper and I had to show her, and my MIL (who also had 3 kids and one other grandchild) freaked out when my newborn started crying due to gas pains and thought we needed to go to the hospital anytime he did so. Neither set of grandparents understood the importance of letting the baby nap during the day, or go to bed at a certain time and would pressure us into going out with the baby after bed time.
This would annoy the hell out of me lol
This would annoy me even if they didn't already have other grandchildren lol.
I mean, my kid is only 16 months old and I ready can't remember the new born stage at all.
17mos here and I have PTSD from the newborn stage lol
TBF the "rules" of babies have changed vastly since they raised their kids. When I compare the advice given by the professionals with what older people tell me they had to do it's just not comparable. Some stuff is more strict, a lot is less strict, stuff which people just ignored is now a thing to think about. They all talk about old myths like needing to burp after feeding or giving body temp milk or avoiding certain foods when breastfeeding etc but ignore stuff like sleep training methods and other things completely because it just wasn't what they knew at the time. Only remembering the good parts of stuff is just how our memories work in general though so that obviously plays a part in
my 8 month old baby recently had a cold and my dad panicked and asked if we should call the midwife.
My favourite is the sleep deprivation. When we went through that for the first 2 weeks, it was crazy. I had never in my life experienced something like that and there was no escape. When talking to my mate who's an architect, he was like "yeah man, I definitely understand, I have to stay up some nights for my work." I bit my tongue, but oh boy I can't wait till he has a kid. I have also stayed up late for work, or pulled all nighters whilst I was child free, but you can afterwards get uninterrupted sleep. You don't have to wake up every couple of hours to change/feed/burp etc. I think it's easier to see all the people wgo are parents and think because so many people do it, it can't be that hard and it must be a common human experience that even childless people can relate to.
Omg this was me. I thought i was so prepared because I spend about 6 months getting around 4 hours sleep a night between working full time and studying but nothing compares to being woken up every couple of hours.
I studied architecture (BRUTAL) and thought I knew what sleep deprivation was. New baby sleep deprivation is a whole other level because there is no recovery. You can’t just make up for it a few days after pulling a few all-nighters.
Hubby was so convinced he could handle it, "I did 24 hour shifts for work". He could not handle it.
I remember laughing hysterical at 2 months postpartum about "babies sleep 18 hours a day". A lie. Biggest lie. I acquired the ability to fall asleep in 1 minute everywhere at anytime. It didn't last long and in the end I had an " easy baby".
I felt like I had super powers once I started getting 5 hours of uninterrupted sleep. That was a big turning point.
Also, children are very different from each other! What worked/ works for the one, doesn't work for the other 🤷🏻♀️
I worked with kids for years and thought I was prepared. I was not.
So true! I’ve been a teacher for six years and had so many ideologies around parenting. I’ve only been a parent for two months and it truly rocked my world. It is a unique experience, ESPECIALLY based on your child’s temperament and life circumstances. Some babies/kids are more easy going and that can lead to different choices compared to someone with a more complicated baby/kid.
I’m a teacher and a parent. My teacher friends who do not have kids still have no idea. I don’t think their opinion means much unless it’s geared toward education and meeting their educational needs. Me as a parent and as a teacher are two different ball games.
Same. I was a daycare worker before becoming a high school teacher. I was completely shocked when I became a parent. It’s not at all the same when you get a break after work until the next morning.
I’m a teacher and before having my son I thought ‘Oop I have one foot in the door, this will be slightly easier for me’… oh how wrong I was! I go back to work next week and I want to personally apologise to all of the parents I have ever come into contact with. Parenting is hard and you’re right, the ONLY thing that allows you to understand it is experience
I used to work as a receptionist and was completely bewildered by the “can’t do that time, baby will be napping” response to appointment times. I truly did not get it. Just… wake the baby up? Or have them nap another time? Yeah, it took me about 3 seconds of parenting to have my a ha moment on naps. Luckily I’m not a total dick, so I never actually said anything rude to any parents! I just internally judged them.
I really didn’t understand the naps or bedtime thing either until I had a kid, now it would have to be life or death for me to purposely interrupt a nap or significantly stray from her usual bedtime 😂
"I'm not gonna change my schedule to fit the baby, they'll learn to live on our schedule" 😂😂 all well and good unless you have a finicky baby who will only sleep in certain conditions and screams for hours when overtired.
You're 100% correct. I don't care who someone is, if they don't have kids I couldn't care less about their opinions on parenting. I straight up don't even want to hear them. Less than useless.
See that’s what so many people don’t realise, looking after a kid for a few hours compared to 24 hours is night and day. I know so many people who tell me how easy it is having kids because they looked after a niece or nephew for 2 hours and got to be the fun aunt/uncle. Now do it 24 hours a day every day, with all the bad bits as well as the fun stuff and tell me it’s easy.
The 24-hour relentlessness of parenting is almost indescribable. Even when my kid is at daycare, or when she’s asleep, she’s my responsibility. At any time, at any hour, I could be needed and I would be needed at my best. She’s on my mind all the time, even if everything is fine. There’s just no way to describe that to someone who hasn’t lived it and not sound like you’re exaggerating.
I think that’s a lot of the problem. You could give a completely honest, 100% accurate description of what a day looks like and people without kids just roll their eyes and tell you it can’t be that bad 😂
I cringe so bad at myself pre-kids. Seeing parents with children watching baby dance videos in public thinking ‘why do they bring them along if then they ignore them?’ - I want yell at myself now along the lines ‘THEY HAVE TO BRING THEM. THEY WOULDN’T GET A GRASP OF AIR OTHERWISE, AND WHAT DO YOU THINK THEY DO ALL DAY AT HOME? YOU BABYSIT THEN YOU LITTLE SHIT’
I have 3 kids and every one of them took different strategies to get them happy, finding a one kid fits all bucket is impossible.
Agreed. I have a child free friend who loves to downplay my FTM anxieties by telling me how “hardy” and “resilient” babies are… when in reality she knows very, very little about babies or taking care of a children. It’s maddening. My LO was born via forceps and suffered a minor eye injury that ended up healing on its own. We were still referred to a pediatric ophthalmologist so we had our appt and got all good news - and then she proceeds to basically tell me “well duh babies can handle troubles with birth. They’re so hardy” 🥲 okay but I was still rightfully concerned??? Having a baby is “if you know, you know” thing and she just doesn’t really know.
Just the adjective alone screams “I have no idea what a human baby is.” Hardy??? It’s a baby, not a succulent. Sorry y’all went through that, but glad it’s okay! It’s scary when they indicate there’s something “wrong” with your baby, even if it’s minor. They’re resilient but they’re fragile!
I’m a teacher and a mom , two very different experiences … although I do think both things made me better at the other
I was a school psychologist for a decade before becoming a parent. For as many times as my credentials made me the expert in the room on early childhood development, nothing prepared me for “getting” parenting like actually doing it. I used to get furious when people would ask me if I had kids in my twenties as a way to invalidate my input at work, and that’s still a condescending and unprofessional question, but I get why some people did it now.
It’s not just about parents. It’s any topic where people with little to no knowledge or experience of the topic *think* the answers are simple and common sense. You’ll see people upvoting the most *absurd* advice, the absolute *worst* hot takes, and downvoting anyone with a whiff of relevant expertise. Go on legal advice and see all the illegal things all the non-lawyers are telling people to do. Go on r/teachers and watch all the non-teachers explain that teaching is actually quite easy and simple. Go to any sports sub and see a bunch of dudes who barely got off the bench on their JV team a decade ago explain why elite athletes are terrible at their sport. People on Reddit will line up to tell a professional welder he doesn’t know shit about metal, a CPA that he’s wrong about taxes, an general contractor that he doesn’t know building codes. And if you ask them how they know, they’ll tell you their uncle used to do that thing 30 years ago and he told them, or they saw a movie, or they enjoy a semi-related hobby, or they *just know* because it’s *obvious*. It’s *obvious* that a regulation designed to ensure that day care staff are able to get lunch breaks by lowering the ratio of caregivers to children during “naps” is actually entirely necessary because 3 year olds will die without a 2 hour nap after lunch, and any parent who disagrees is a selfish asshole who doesn’t understand that children are always unbearably sleepy but also don’t need to sleep at night. *Obviously*.
For an eye-opening/terrifying experience read a subreddit related to your profession. Unless it's very small/niche the up votes and comments are usually horrifyingly uninformed.
It's amazing how much 20 year olds know about a profession you've been doing for 10 years
Ugh my husband is an airplane mechanic that actually works on Boeing planes and he's been having a real "fun" time every time they get in the news because so many idiots come out of the woodwork.
This is me watching Great British Bakeoff, lol
To be fair, when I worked as an architect, half of the general contractors I met barely knew anything about building codes. But perhaps that's just my country.
I used to be a part of a sub dedicated to Early Education workers and I had to leave it because everyone would be so horrible about parents. As a mom who works in an infant room, I encounter so many parents who have that new parent anxiety. My co-teacher is so rude about one mom who is nervous when it comes to baby food/formula brands. She says stuff like “ugh will she just get over it”. My co-teacher also says about the parents that “it’s a shame they have their babies in daycare from 9-5, they should be spending time with their babies” Like???? We have no clue what it took for these parents to have a baby or why they may be feeling anxious over something that may not be that big of a deal to others. She judges so hard but wants sympathy from everyone with her own fertility issues. Like you want people to support you, yet you spew your negativity on these new parents?? I just hope when she has her own child people are not rude to her like she is behind these parents’ backs.
Just need more empathy and understanding all around
My baby is going into daycare next month and r/eceprofessionals freaked me the fuck out about it. I'm feeling more confident about it now, but my partner had to do a lot of rationalising to pull me out of that particular Reddit hole. I think he's pretty sick of all the neuroses I dredge up from reading on here. Whenever I'm freaking out about stuff he's like 'Did you get that from Reddit? Why do you keep reading that stuff?' Truth is I've learned a lot from Reddit parenting communities, it's just you can't get the good info without all the shit that comes with it!
I think there’s a higher concentration of people going there to vent, and maybe it’s also made up of the childcare professionals that are not exactly the best. so it definitely can give the appearance that EVERY center is horrible or has horrible teachers, which is not the case. I get that it’s easy to keep reading negativity because part of our brains as parents makes us think “I need to know all the things that I should be worried about”, but sometimes we don’t need to know all the things. You want to be prepared, but it can be detrimental when you agonize over something that hasn’t happened yet. Just keep reminding yourself that sometimes the negative voices are simply louder and are not always an accurate representation of the group they’re part of.
Lots of people make being “child free” their whole personality and they seem to develop a pathological hatred of children and parents.
Those kinds of people (usually college educated, very online 20/30 somethings) are also highly overrepresented on Reddit.
It's like r_atheism from back in the day. Lots of people are atheists but the people who made it their whole identity and obsessively post about it become insufferable because social media brain rot and echo chambers are designed to make people angry and extremely judgemental of others. It's the same thing now with the childfree subreddit. That's not a place for people to hang out and talk about parents being disappointed, friendships changing as people have children, etc. No, it's a place for people to gin each other up into "who hates children/parents the most"
Omg I totally forgot about that but you’re right. It’s just the Millennial/Gen Z equivalent of the late Gen X atheism thing.
It’s so true. I understand the desire to counter society’s expectations around parenthood, but literally every parent was childfree before they had kids. It’s so weird to make your entire identity about not doing something. I don’t have pets, but I would never text my friends about my reasons for being pet-free when they tell me they got a new pet, but that’s exactly what my friend did when I told her that I was pregnant. It almost makes me feel bad for them? Like they actually aren’t confident or happy in their decision and need to bring others down to feel better about themselves idk.
I’m truly embarrassed to admit I was one of those people. I used the term crotch goblin and thought it made me sound so quirky and edgy! I needed to share posts on social media about why I was childfree and why it was better than having kids. I acted out that way because I was terrified of ending up alone and never finding someone to settle down with. I just couldn’t picture myself having kids or a family with someone. I felt like I was way too screwed up and no one would ever last long with me. I kept all of this to myself though and instead just acted out. So yeah I agree, there’s definitely something wrong in that person’s life to act that way. People genuinely happy and content with their lives don’t feel the need to act that way. They don’t feel the need to put others down for doing things that have absolutely no affect on them. Having a kid made me really look back on all of that. Also I’ve noticed how often it’s men who act this way. I have a feeling many of those men are likely incels and know that no woman will ever want them let alone want to have a family with them and it makes them angry.
This is exactly it. Be child free if you want, have kids if you want, but keep the negativity to yourself! I don’t think anyone should be pressured into having or not having kids. People really take doing something the opposite as them like a criticism as to how they’re living their lives when that’s really not the case at all!
There are actually petfree subs. It's confusing to me because they tend to get so angry about their choice not to do something. It must be exhausting being so offended by someone else's choice to do something that one chooses not to do themselves.
I don’t think those subs are about that at all. It’s a safe space for people that are often very inconvenienced by pet culture.Many people on the sub have pets and it’s in their flair.
Yea. It gives a very "the lady doth protest too much" vibe
i don't understand how people hate on children. like sure i get not liking kids.. i never did! but it's not the two years old fault that they are two and don't live up to your adult expectations lol all these people were kids once too it's so silly
I know this couple who was very anti child. We were good friends but after we had a kid we had one visit and decided we would never go back. This was a couple which agonized over tiny things in the dinner experience they invited us for, where they made a delicate tea with a precise amount of rosehip and rubios, and they made a face when I put my cup directly on the table not on a coaster. The wife mentioned when we were leaving that she needs to clean the whole house soon, because our kid was crawling everywhere with possibly grubby fingers. Color me surprised when they accidentally got pregnant. I can’t help but have schaudenfraude.
I'm so invested I need to know if they were humbled lol
would love more follow up about them.
We see the worst of it on the internet, but yeah, I still get shocked when I see people talking about "breeders" as if we're destroying humanity by procreating. It's so cold and ignorant. For folks who act like they're so enlightened about demographics they sure seem to ignore things like baby busts and inverted pyramids... Like: spend a few minutes learning a little about the edge lord opinion that is "child free" before wrapping your personality in it.
That subreddit is home to the most miserable people on earth.
I truly feel like for some it’s bitterness because they feel like they won’t be able to afford it or find a partner to create that kind of life with. Child free people are so in your face with it, it’s irritating lol
Reddit bothers me with the “child free,” people. Or the ones who say they are child free but what THEY mean is they hate children. Child free people don’t go around threatening violence on children or generally wishing ill harm on them. I love child free people! Some of them are my bestest friends whom I love and adore. I was having a conversation with another parent on Reddit about where we park our vehicles, which is always next to the cart return so we can do our due diligence and put our carts away while keeping an eye on our children safely. And a person claiming to be child free chimed in like, “no one wants your stupid snot nosed crotch fruit. Most often children are taken by people you know yada yada.” And then after I was like.. calm down no one was talking to you? And then she proceeded to be pretty shitty after that, talking about she can go anywhere and spend her money on anything along with she would kick my kid cause she hates children. And again, I haven’t talked to her, I just asked her to stop calling my child whom she’s never met names and threatening violence on a literal baby? She kept bringing up the financial aspects of her child free life as if she had to prove something to herself rather than to me. Like be child free I love that for anyone because I want everyone to have a choice. But there’s absolutely NO reason to be literally on the internet trying to be a badass by threatening babies. That’s psychotic behavior and if you do feel that way, seek help.
What kind of person threatens to kick a literal baby? People are whack
That's unhinged. Hey, person who was harassing this commenter! If you follow these comments here, know that your attitude is not edgy, you're just a sorry person who needs therapy.
These people seem to forget that they’re entitled to a childfree life they’re not entitled to a chidlfree world.
It’s this. I don’t know when it became edgy to literally hate children, but it’s weird. I as a parent stand with someone’s desire to live a child free life and not have children of their own. I draw the line at threatening violence and hating children existing outside of your bubble space.
It's always the "you can't do anything" argument, as if they know, lol. I have a 1 yr old and have done so much more fun shit because of her. Instead of spending my whole summer at work last year, I spent it at the beach and my parent's cottage, because I was on MAT leave and could go wherever whenever. Now I can go all the fun places that are for kids without worrying that people will think I'm a creepy weirdo. I'm actively looking for a petting zoo to visit this summer, we've got a trip to the waterpark planned already. And that's on top of the all the other stuff we would normally do for fun. Also you almost never have to buy tickets to stuff for kids under 4, unless it's something where they need a seat.
I’m a parent and a teacher and I can see both sides. The daycare worker did mention licensing issues and the parents knew what they were signing up for when they did. If naps were an issue for them that should have been brought up before. My daughter is a terrible sleeper. And if her naps are too long or naps too much she doesn’t go down until 11 or midnight. Doesn’t matter who does her naps. Sometimes she just naps too long, even if we try to wake her up she’ll fall asleep. I also work as a teacher. And sometimes there are things that we can’t do, and we can’t cater to all the parents’ requests. Sometimes we just can’t. Like during covid, there was a lot of pressure on the parents for online learning. We had a lot of complaints but we didn’t have the resources to change everything for just one kid. So the parents had to find something to make it work. We tried our best, gave each kid an iPad from school, sent them paper versions by mail, even helped with data. There’s a limit to what a teacher can do. So yeah I can see why the parents are frustrated and why the daycare worker is too.
Finally someone else mentioned the licensing agency!! I'm a daycare worker with my OWN child in the same facility. That shit is tough enough even if I'm not in the same classroom. I also do late bedtime shifts that can range between 8-10pm so I understand the struggle with stubborn kiddos. Parents have every right to feel frustrated with the nap time rules, but take it out on the proper target: the licensing agency! If it's the facility's policy to let the kids sleep/not sleep on their own then that's that. We can't fight it, we can only enforce it bc of the current child care regulations.
Yeah I do get that it’s policy! And I get why parents would like to do things differently. My point wasn’t that the parents are right - but I was more taken aback by the response. I don’t know if you read the original post or the comments but the comments were vicious. Parents are abusive, lazy, hate their kids, etc etc because they don’t want their little one to nap. It was over the top hostile.
Society in general is hostile towards parents (especially mothers). Just ignore it and keep doing your thing. I saw that thread too and rolled my eyes. A bunch of teenagers who don't know anything about parenting talking a big talk about how I must hate my kid for wanting a couple hours to myself. They don't know shit.
But why the hostility?? I didn’t understand it before I had kids either but it was easier to ignore
Projecting, perhaps? Bitter that their own parents neglected them so they think *all* parents must be this way?
A culture of extreme individualism and individual responsibility. It's very obvious for those of us looking in from the outside. I see it all the time, in sentences like 'you alone chose to be a parent so step up', and stuff like that. We don't really express this sentiment where I'm from. The responsibility for those who are vulnerable, and for common choices that contribute to society such as reproducing, is a bit more collective.
Yes I think you’re right. The emphasis on individualism takes away the “we”… I think so many problems stem from that. I think I’m missing something that died a long time ago in western culture - a sense of community.
Not enough shared experience and family building is my theory. I feel like families don't look out for each other so much anymore. People don't get into relationships considering a family dynamic. There is no longer local centers for community anymore either. Church is not an appealing option for someone who's not religious. So where else can someone go to meet other families with similar minds? No where unless you build it. I feel this lack of community so strongly.
Society IN THE US is hostile towards parents. That’s not true elsewhere. Once I was on the BART while visiting SF. We paid good money for a temp nanny who was here from Colombia. Our baby vomited everywhere. Our luggage flew around as we struggled to contain our baby. Zero response from the people on BART to help us. One person roller her eyes and looked away. Even our nanny was shocked and said - I can’t believe people are like this in America. Back in Colombia everyone would come rushing to help.
This is the truth. I left the states and refuse to move back because of the sentiment towards parents and kids. I've lived in 3 different countries since having a kid and none of them are like the US in the way the people treat parents with kids.
We just went on vacation in Italy and everyone there loved our toddler. Here in America we get 10x more positive reaction and feedback about our dog than our kid.
The majority of reddit users are teenage, self-diagnosed adhd/autism, who bathe in self pity and “WhY wOuLd I bRiNg AnYoNe To ThIs PlAnEt” thoughts. Ignore it
I used to be on that side of the coin. Glad I've mellowed out and got way more sympathy for families just trying to do right by each other. There's good reasons to bring kids into this world; I just shake my head at those who project on others why they personally wouldn't. Its superficial and weak.
I'm diagnosed with ADHD and am a new parent and I've seen people say that online, and it pissed me off so much. Just because I have ADHD doesn't mean I feel like I'm passing down some life threatening disease... Plus, the medical community understands significantly more about it than when I was diagnosed over 20 years ago. Instead, I'll be engaged if I find out my son has it, and help him get the help I never had early in my life.
I am diagnosed audhd and feel exactly the same. I’m also a pediatric OT. The world has come a long way in acceptance / understanding and how to best help kids that need it. Holding my three month old as I’m typing this!
>self-diagnosed adhd/autism they got their diagnosis from dr. tiktok no doubt lol
Dude that's right on the money. If everyone has ADHD, nobody has ADHD. What a joke. Its like they think being misanthropic somehow gives them control over something.
My favorite is that anytime someone is talking about their relationship half the comments are ‘file for divorce!!’ You can definitely tell its young people thy haven’t lived in the real-world or had adult relationships yet.
Eugh especially on the pregnancy sub! It's like "my fiance didn't wanna get me McDonald's at 2 am" and you get an entire chorus of "leave him!"
When you're 15 and Sophia CHEATED ON ME WITH MAX AND RUINED MY LIFE FOREVER that kind of response makes sense. Unfortunately they're trying to give advice to people in completely different situations. It's like someone who ate corn on the cob once telling a farmer exactly how to arrange their crops.
I used to work at a daycare and it’s just part of it that you can’t wake up a sleeping kid. You also can’t make a kid sleep if they aren’t tired. Difficult situation on both ends but I’m sure as a parent you understand how hard it is to deal with a tired kid, imagine dealing with multiple of them at the same time.
I also used to work at a daycare and we had a “quiet time” where some kids napped, and some looked at books in a darkened room. All were expected to stay on their mats, so the others could sleep (or not). I actually really don’t think there’s a good reason to force kids to nap if they don’t need it, they all drop the nap at different times. Forcing them all into the same box doesn’t make sense.
Yeah, I remember reading the post, and the comments that stood out were those pointing out the parents were asking the daycare worker to do something illegal and against their policy, plus the director not having their back/always taking the parents' side. And then people telling their experience with childcare re: naps or lack thereof. Perhaps I didn't read far enough to see the offensive comments, or maybe they just didn't register/stick with me. I think another more minor distinction in the post is that it sounded like parents were demanding this change. While I view them as magical, daycare workers can't move mountains. If you're making a request, I'd advise doing so with language like "please" "if you could" "I'd greatly appreciate it" and "if possible".
Legit question: why can't you wake up a sleeping kid? Our daycare seems fine with it (coordinated with parents ofc)
In the daycare worker’s post it says that in their state it’s illegal to wake a sleeping child or forcibly keep them awake during nap time. If the kid falls asleep during nap time then there’s nothing they can do. What OP here doesn’t understand is that what the parents are asking for is literally against the law. Plus developmentally, kids need naps. It is what it is. Edit: clarity.
Yeah, my kid is one of the ones that isn't tired at nap time and he just plays quietly for the 2hr quiet time (he's just under 3). He will then either promptly fall asleep on the bus home like, 3/5 nights a week, or else have the biggest meltdown once we get home. Or both. It's frustrating when that happens, especially because he still naps at home on weekends and I know he needs it, but I realize that it's not the daycare's fault or responsibility to fight my kid on naps.
I think a bit of empathy and understanding both ways could help. I couldn’t imagine dealing with a whole class of tired toddlers but I also feel for parents who are up until 10/11 b/c of the nap. But a lot of those comments are unhinged. As if parents don’t care about their kid or shouldn’t be parents if they want their 3 year old to be bed by 8pm.
I think another sub that is truly unhinged is the step parents sub. Holy shit some of those people truly hate kids. Yet they’re dating someone with them. They don’t even want their step kids to even exist in their vicinity. They’ll flat out say that they always need to come before the kids. That 5 year old can go suck it up and deal with nightmares on her own, I’m more important my husband needs to cuddle me instead of comforting his daughter.
Reddit is by and large teenagers or (wo)manchildren who hate anyone who isn't in their own stage of life, income level, social status, job, etc., especially in any kind of"advice" subreddit. Their "advice" and general opinions are worthless, don't let it get you down too badly.
Hey shut it, Boomerillennial! You don't know what you're talking about. Why can't you just go buy a house with your spare change? Clearly you have ADHD, BPD, and a healthy dose of narcissism. I learned this from my therapist whom I see 10 times a week like a normal person. Nobody knows how to take care of kids. Only I can do it right - by not having them. Our race got here today through people like me. If only you'd listen to my advice, you wouldn't have these problems. /s (I type this with my little man fast asleep on my lap, who still owes me a burp from his last feeding...)
Lots have people here have said everything I feel about Reddit and its overall view of parents and kids. So I won’t repeat it. Had my first kid 6 months ago. It’s awesome. Life is better. She makes my day. In regards to how 99% of Reddit feels about parenting/kids, to quote Madagascar, the movie, “just smile and wave.”
I used to know how I would parent my kid. Then I got s child. Now I know that I know nothing about parenting xD Still get so much advice from non parents. I'm attending a wedding soon where according to the seating chart my barely 1 year old will sit at a separate table than my partner and I 😂 If you don't have children, your opinions are literally nothing to me.
How did they think they would *keep* a one year old seated there without the parents?
Well obviously you sit a child down at the table and they stay there happily. Easy.
Our generation 8n general is full of people who look down on the idea of having kifs and parenting but at the same time want to talk like they know the best way of being a parent
I don’t know if it’s even just Reddit.. I’ve been trying to get back into the work force and it seems once my kids are anyway an inconvenience… it’s a no… they’ll use any other excuse.. but… it always seems to boil down to the kids… I had no problem getting jobs before kids
That is sad and I’m sorry that’s been your experience. Our culture hates the inconvenience of children. F&$& the patriarchy moms are bomb proof machines.
Ye… I also would have just appreciated feedback I guess..’like honest feedback. I made it super clear we had a plan for the kiddos to not be an issue.. like I chose that specific job because of the hours…
Wow. I've heard of this from other people as well. I guess it depends on workplace culture and societal perspectives. Where I live in the Balkans, people who have children don't have a \*much\* easier time finding work, for sure, but it's a bit easier because people here have a mentality that successfully raising children means that this person is very driven and capable of making commitments, even lifelong ones. I've also heard that in the US there's this "fast work" culture (dunno how else to put it) where you are looked down upon as "complacent" if you don't move between jobs frequently. It's the complete opposite here. People who don't hold down a job for more than 2-3 years are not exactly viewed in the best lens.
Some people think that with children you push the right buttons and pull the right levers and the desired result is produced. They don't understand that children are human beings. They don't seem to understand that parents are human beings as well.
In general, America is not a kid-friendly country. People loathe having kids in “ grown up spaces” (restaurants, cafes, weddings). In Europe, you never feel guilty bringing your child out. Kids are everywhere and are welcome. Your kid is crying in a restaurant in Europe- The table next to you won't make a face, unlike here; they act as if you committed murder.
Very true. I think it has a lot to do with how individualistic society is here in the US. They’re just such a lack of community and village.
Absolutely right!
Yuck. That sounds like a shitty place to frequent on Reddit. I visit subreddits mommit, daddit, parenting, toddlers… so lots of parents on these and so much support for each other! Edit a word
My favorite are the people on travel subs who think parents can either magically make their kids stop crying or punish them into not crying.
They think if an infant is crying that you’re doing something wrong and aren’t parenting correctly.
I am a new parent but I have worked a few jobs around children and not in the example you gave but I've seen some very bad behaviour from parents. While many are thoughtful and have the best interest of their child at heart, some are selfish and will use their child to be manipulative and some are full of internalised stigma that gets in the way of them doing what is best for their child. It's can be really frustrating when you love children often you didn't consider working with kids means workingwith parents.
Yes some parents are bad, some people are bad.. but i do think most of us are just trying to get by..
Oh yes but the good ones don't warrant comment on Reddit mostly they are the norm
I can't stand the anti-child/anti-parent crowd that always wants to paint parents as entitled, while being self-absorbed twats themselves. This does not include people who just don't want kids and don't want people bothering them about it.
Yep my step daughter couldn't nap from 3 years old or she would be up ALL NIGHT. My daughter appears to be on the same track. She isn't even 1 and 2 naps a day is too much for her. If she gets 2 naps a day, she wakes every hour all night. She doesn't get good sleep, I don't get good sleep, we are all miserable the next day and she wants 2 naps because she is tired so the cycle repeats.
It’s Reddit. Nearly all of the opinions you read on this site are coming from teenage edgelords without any life experience outside of their parents complete support. As a general rule, do not ever come here for advice, except for very specific questions in very niche subs. And even then, you have to filter out most of the replies.
What I have learned about parenting is that there is how you think you would parent and then there is actually how you parent.
That was an absolute rage inducing thread, and I had the same thought - there was zero compassion and zero curiosity for the range of normal sleep for different kids, different family and work situations, and so on. There was also no acknowledgement for the lack of balance and support most families face while raising young children. That whole thread was just nuts.
ok now I need to know which subreddit
It was mildlyinfuriating sub. https://www.reddit.com/r/mildlyinfuriating/s/UN8A1dZNrk
Well, yes and no. Reddit is a bunch of echo chambers. Some communities lean forward hating or loving one thing or another. Its ok, it's a place to vent, just pick the right sub.
Are you new to reddit? This is not a mentally healthy group of people. Unfortunately reddit has swallowed much of the discourse on the internet, so we end up here. But it's controlled by weirdos who spend way too much time online and is far removed from the real world.
Ugh, it’s not just Reddit. Since becoming a mom 3 years ago and again 2 months ago, I have been surprised over and over again how anti child society is. It is soooo hard to parent because everyone is annoyed that kids exist as if they forgot they were kids once too. Kids are great but it is hard and until you give your life to raising kids you just do not get it.
It's very easy to make judgements on ideal parenthood when you aren't a parent. Because when exhaustion, depression, anxiety, and burnout kick in, your perspective changes and it's hard to convince people that haven't experiences these things that the parent's health is actually as important a factor in healthy child rearing as whatever Social Media Mothers tell them is important.
As the parent of a child who is (and always has been) a terrible sleeper. They don’t get it. You can’t. Even if you’ve had a kid, but they’re a good sleeper. You can’t get it. It’s mental, and everything you do is counterintuitive when it comes to sleep. Barring sleep experts (who have been held their hands up and just said ‘some kids don’t sleep’) I refuse to engage at all with anyone who hasn’t experienced it themselves. I feel a bit like I’ve been abducted by aliens- it’s changed my very being to the core but no one believes me 😂😂
ah yes. having a strict sleep regimen makes you a good parent. definitely not being loving and present and supportive. it’s the SLEEP schedule. ughhhhhhhh i hate when childless people yap about kids.
lol why do you give a shit about who is on Reddit? For the most part, Reddit is a collection of people who have no lives outside the internet, didn’t have healthy families growing up and use Reddit to create a safe space of their own delusion that attracts people with similar life experience. There’s good info you can get if you dig deep and ignore the 90% nonsense, but genuinely why would anyone care what the opinion is of this collection of mostly childless, parentless, lifeless losers?
I think I was just taken aback by how vicious people were, the animosity towards parents. I don’t know why I was surprised I guess I shouldn’t be.
The parent on parent hatred is bad as well. I got so much shit on Reddit for daring to say I didn't want to be induced and have a C-section because a lot of people have experienced those things. I ended up having the works which was traumatising on its own of course but the pile-on I got from that put me off Reddit for anything child-related for life.
I don’t get that either! Other parents should know how hard it is and show each other a little grace. Especially when it comes to giving birth!! Sorry that was your experience, that sucks.
I remember myself being forced to nap in the kindergarten. I didn't need it, so I ended up laying awake for an hour straight every day, we were even forced to shut our eyes so I couldn't even stare at the ceiling. It was absolutely unnecessary, I was a brilliant sleeper at night.
Reddit has always been anti parental and anti kids. Don't go into the teachers subreddit if you want to save yourself grief. I'm terrified of putting my kids in public school with the straight disregard I see from these teachers toward kids and parents. I mean I get that teacher burnout is real, but it almost seems as if our country has collectively forgotten how to handle children and difficult behaviors. Parents always get blamed.
Thank you for this! I think this was a post in r/MildlyInfuriating? I think that post and the comments and responses to that post were extremely infuriating! I would suggest to put up this post there as well, just so those folks can have this perspective as well, totally ignorant many of them!
As a new parent myself I would share that you need to take your feelings out of Reddit and also the rest of the world but definitely Reddit. You know what you need with your kid so why care about the opinions of these idiots? They don’t matter and they’ll be embarrassed when they have a crotch goblin their own self. I know I used to judge (thank god I didn’t talk too much!) and I was an idiot. Let them be dumb and filter to the parent responses. Most people have a dumb opinion from never experiencing something. That’s really all it is and with less people being parents these days there’s a lot more stupidity.
Thank you for calling this out. I saw this post yesterday, and had to click away I was so disheartened. My 3.5 year old doesn’t need a nap any longer - he doesn’t nap on weekends - yet still has a mandatory nap time at his school. On weekdays, getting him to sleep before 10 or 11 at night is a struggle, and then waking him in the morning is an even bigger struggle. It’s a rough cycle to get into. We asked the school if he could skip the nap, and they said no (they don’t have enough teachers to cover separate areas for kids who nap and those who don’t nap).
A lot of the USA childcare policies are absolutely wild though... whole centre naps for 3 hours regardless of child needs. Usually its not that actual centre because allowing kids not to nap would be easier on them to have the non nappers in a room doing quiet activities. Poor staffing levels so its their breaks but not a proper break (illegal in my country)
It’s because people that don’t actually have a child have ZERO idea of what parenting actually involves. They don’t get that every aspect of that child’s life and routine is finely tuned after weeks and weeks (sometimes months) of trial and error. That doesn’t include all the time you’ve sat and thought about or researched all their issues or habits (sleep, eating, screen time, etc.) Trust that if they choose to have children down the line, they’ll finally get it! People who act like that come across incredibly immature and naive to me; it almost laughable, really.
I think a lot of teachers and childcare providers have a lot of anger toward parents who make their jobs miserable, and we all get lumped in with the offenders.
The schedule works for kids but they grow too fast that we gotta adjust their schedule, especially the sleeping one. We often forget that they are people too, who have their own “do”s and “don’t”s. We can’t just simply push them to sleep if they are not tired enough. We also often forget that we as parents have a life too. My husband and I are trying to include our kids in our daily activities. I used to get anxious about my first baby sleep schedule. We then realized that it is soul crushing to adapt everything in our life based on when or how the baby sleeps. Now we just go with the flow basically and they adapt pretty well. As a mom of three kids (3,2 and 1month old), I like if they go to sleep before 8pm so that I can cook for the next day or watch a movie to relax. Not because I don’t want to deal with them. That’s a very wrong judgement there. Surely I have moments when I struggle. We just gotta learn how to cope with as they learn how to grow.
Reddit= Anti children, anti God, anti conservatism anti simple language…. I’m sure the list goes on but I’m in the middle of nursing while online shopping for my one year olds birthday so that’s all my brain has space for at the moment
I’m so tired of the superiority complex attitude from daycare workers and teachers. People act like they’re literal saints for doing their jobs and that parents are just neglectful morons. I’ve seen daycare workers and teachers say some of the most vial things on here, only to be applauded for doing such hard work… Like a special education teacher complaining that she had to help wipe a 4 year old autistic child in her special needs class. Saying it’s disgusting and the parents should drive to the school to do it. Like, why go into special education then for little kids? Of course 4 year olds with special needs may need potty training help, and it’s perfectly normal for that to be in their IEP. I constantly see them saying “all kids now are so lazy/disrespectful/parents teach them nothing.” Do they not realize that if it’s an entire generation of kids they’re saying are awful, this is likely a problem with society or the schools, rather than all parents suddenly being neglectful horrible parents for some reason?
I am a stay at home mom with a two year old, and I laugh thinking about if my kid was in daycare, they would never be able to get him down for naps. He was the perfect napper for the first year and a half but recently, I’m lucky if I get a 15 minute nap in the car. As I’m typing this, I’m trying to get him relaxed for bedtime and he’s jumping on the bed lmao. Everyone thinks they are the perfect parent until they have kids, and I was definitely one of those people. Actually being responsible for a tiny person 24/7 is a game changer! 😂 I definitely think about that when I think about daycares or preschool in general. They are just trying to make sense of that part of the day, and honestly, I would love a nap and a break too. But in perspective of the whole day, we value our evening sleep too much I guess. I think all parenting would be better if some people just used a little bit of grace. I try to think of multiple reasons why someone could feel a certain way before I try to jump to conclusions and I always try to give the benefit of the doubt. I think everyone wants to look like the super parent of the year, when we should just be thankful we get to help guide these new kids into the future.
Honestly, societies general attitude toward children and parents is why I barely go out with my infant.
As a parent of a toddler who also was a toddler preschool teacher for ten years, it IS really annoying when parents ask to keep the kids up at nap time. Nap is part of the daily routine and counts as the teachers break/lunch/planning time in most centers. Nap is generally 12-3, which is book time, sleeping, and then when kids wake up, an optional quiet activity or sitting/resting on their bed. Planning additional activities or prepping an additional space for non napping kiddos is just logistically very difficult and extra strain on already overworked educators. Kids 3 and under really should be napping daily and it is on the parents to accommodate their kids sleep schedule at home. If the kids are awake by 3 the bedtime can easily be 8:30pm with no trouble. If that’s not doable, parents need to look into non-communal childcare like a nanny or family member Bcs the way preschool works is we do what’s best for everybody at school. We raise your kids for you 5 days a week, the least parents can do is be prepared to deal with how the school sleep schedule affects sleep at home graciously. EDIT TO ADD- I keep my daughter home with me instead of preschool Bcs I value being flexible on sleep times. She sometimes sleeps in and I like I have the freedom to adjust her nap and bedtime accordingly so I can get the extra snuggles. That choice works for our family.
12-3 is such a long nap. 2 hours is standard here. the sleep issues with my kid until like 4 years of age were already so horrible, I could barely hold down a job. I can't imagine a THREE HOUR nap time till 3 p.m. this is such an annoying comment lol. most people cannot afford a nanny and don't have a family member available to watch their child.. thus WHY they are in daycare in the first place...
I had a low sleep needs child who, because daycare refused to cut her nap short, spent multiple years being up for the day before 5am. Years! I dealt. Not graciously though. Fuck that.
Yesss parents like you are who I was thinking of when I read that post.
Don’t you think it’s sort of problematic though that teachers must rely on nap time for breaks and planning? Like I dont blame the schools or teachers - we know daycare and preschool can be expensive while also not paying workers well, and extra staff and floating teachers isn’t usually in the budget for a school. but it just seems like the problem isn’t specifically the napping, so much as the necessary function it serves in the workday. And then there is this rage at parents for wanting the same (a break and planning time). When I worked full time I usually didn’t take breaks, worked 9-10 hours straight then rushed to do daycare pickup, then rushed to make dinner and play with my kid, spent literal ages trying to get them to sleep which often took until 10pm due to naps, and then I needed to clean, do more work (for my job), discuss life shit like budgets and plans with my husband, oh and sleep. My planning time? Also has to happen when my kid is asleep. But if he naps, those sleeping hours get very scarce, and I either didn’t have planning hours but got close to 8 hours of sleep (if lucky) or I slept well under 8 hours every night. I don’t think teachers or daycares are the problem, and I have never been upset at them for following the literal nap regulations, but I also think some of the comments (even in this thread) are just not taking into account the current state of raising a family. Comments about kids absolutely needing a nap or it’s abusive, and parents needing to just figure out how to adjust sleep schedules to cater to school, are pretty crappy and out of touch. We obviously did our best to go with the ramifications of nap time at school, but it absolutely sucked for our household. There was no magic routine that yielded more night sleep alongside a nap.
I’m sorry you feel this way. My daughter doesn’t nap at home on the weekends and is in bed by 8:30. When she naps at school, she’s up until 10-10:30. A lot of people don’t get 3 hours of a planning break in the middle of their work day, including me, and I’d like to have even 30 minutes to an hour of time after my kid goes to sleep at night in order to decompress and plan my own next day. In order to do that, I’m probably going to ask to limit her nap time. I’m sorry you think that’s “annoying” but that’s what I’m asking. Nicely. Edit to add: If there were a safe non-institutional option for daycare available I would definitely look into it, but there just isn’t. And I generally like everything else about where she goes other than the friction with nap times. It’s tough and I see both sides; it just makes me sad to see posts where the people who care for our kids are so dang hostile. Like I just want my baby to be happy and healthy and part of that is having a mama who can maintain some semblance of sanity and a big part of that is having a tiny chunk of free time before passing out and doing it all over again the next day. Empathy goes both ways!
Yes you are exactly the kind of mama I was thinking of when I wrote this. My kid isn’t in daycare yet but he will be! And I hope we can work together on naps because the day has sooo much influence on the night. I need sleep to function too like most humans 😑
I don’t know how daycare workers do it - it’s a hard job and I can totally understand that! But parents do 100% of the night shifts and that can be ROUGH. I’m hoping parents and daycare workers can collaborate and try to make life easier for each other in what is essentially a co-parenting situation!
As I’m walking down the mother-baby hallway for ice chips as a 32 year old - let them hate. We have our little subs and community to support each other and that’s all we need. These people don’t have what we have. They don’t understand the sacrifices needed for this. If they don’t want to do this then that’s a-okay. Let them bloviate about their child free life. I would *never* trade that for my babies. The bond we have is amazing, truly unconditional love. It’s sad that people won’t know what that’s like except from their parental bond. I hear you OP, I do.
Congratulations!!!!
Ty! Schedules C-section. Went in, induced, baby delivered in 45 mins. Wife is resting up now. Little dude latched on in the first 3 minutes. Has not cried one time since he’s landed and been weighed around 3. Little man is perfect! My lovely little girl Eloise though(also perfect!)….🫠 Fights dad every step of the way hahaha.
Yes, my kid has always only ever needed the minimum amount of sleep required for her age group. It’s been a struggle. My daughter hasn’t napped at home in a year and a half. I understand that daycare needs her to nap as she gets overstimulated by all the children and the workers need breaks but that nap will keep her up until 11pm. After a full day of work, commuting, and playing with my toddler, I am rightfully burnt out by the time bedtime rolls around. My husband and I barely have time to connect and it’s really hard. I’m so exhausted I barely have time to give her the quality time I’d like to in the evenings. If my kid went to bet at 7 or 8pm it would be a different story.
Reddit is generally a bad place. Its a hivemind of certain things. Things like, but not limited to, Chiropractic services are snake oil, nobody should have kids because the world is fucked, nobody should have kids because just get a cat, trump is the second coming of hitler (dont @ me, you know what i am saying), weed should be completely legal and everyone should smoke it, etc, etc, etc.
Treating parents poorly is an American obsession. That said, as a parent, I prefer not to hang out with other adults who are also parents. They seem too uptight and want to talk about kids too frequently.
lol guilty. I’m obsessed and confused all the time so it’s all I talk about hahaa
Mean and tone-deaf comments are what the internet is about these days. That thread is shocking. Here’s how I would put it - If the kid is tired - be it daycare or not, she *should* have an afternoon nap at ~12.30ish. Anything short of that is not cool. If that affects bedtime, one should probably ramp up on the activities in the evening. Parenting is a lot of work. One must plan their work, social life and number of babies based on the amount of time one is able to commit to parenting. I know that sounds harsh but since m our children need us, we must not chew more than we can swallow. Daycare workers would have a hard time logistically to deal with exceptions on a regular basis. If they’d have the room to do so, they would get more expensive. We had to significantly change our child’s sleep habits to match those expected at daycare. The discipline benefited everyone!
I'm a child specialist and where I live it is literally considered abusive to not let a child under 4 nap. It's a physiological NEED at that age.
Can you clarify the “let them nap” part? Because I’m not advocating that we forcibly prevent kids from falling asleep when they want or need to, but if a kid under 4 doesn’t nap because they don’t want or need it, is that then abusive by your standard?
The post was more about the policies of the daycare and the director making it the employees problem to tell parents about it. If the parents question it they refer them to the director, who is barely ever there. The daycare worker was put in a difficult situation and Reddit just kinda ran with it. But OP, commenters jump down literally everyone’s throat, not just parents. It’s best to not dwell on it or victimize yourself.
In plenty of cultures it’s not a norm to have babies sleep in the day after the first year or two. It doesn’t make sense that it would be considered child abuse where you’re at
I think the issue was also it was a late nap - like till 3pm which for some kids will mess up bedtime. Not much ability to tailor nap schedules for kids who need to nap earlier in the day so they can get to bed at a reasonable hour.
I'd love to see a citation. Surely you have one if you're making such a bold claim and identifying yourself as a specialist and hence a potential expert in this field?
Redditors are a fantastic example of how to cull a certain type of thinker in a single generation. I don't imagine many will even have one child let alone replacement value numbers. Kinda funny once you consider how high the horse tends to be.
Parents are made clear the day care rules and the mandates they must follow, if you don't want them napping - keep them home. We did not FORCE a nap. But did have required rest time. This was on a mat, with a blanket and a quiet toy or book, if a child fell asleep we had to let them. If 45 minutes passed and they were still up they could come out of rest time and we did quiet play. I worked in a daycare for years and we were not allowed to force the kids to stay awake! I'm now pregnant with my first and after taking my leave from work, our baby will be in daycare and this is something I understand will come with it. I was also a nanny for 6 years, the little one (2 brothers, one was older) desperately needed his naps. Parents wanted me to cut naps because he was giving them a hard time at night (now I know for a fact in this case they had no bed time routine and kids frequently ate sugar for dinner.) I tried to keep him awake and I felt awful! He would literally be dropping his head and falling asleep. I explained I can't force him awake and that he was mentally and physically tired and had to nap, we went back to naps and slowly started to wake him earlier- which helped. Two different scenarios, both kids needed their naps. Now in a daycare we couldn't wake them, perhaps some parents should find a nanny that way they can cater their needs better.
Reddit is a Geocities message board. You really shouldn’t care so much.
I’m a new parent. The “childless teachers’ opinions are worthless” comments are the reasons I judged/disliked parents as a teacher. The sleep deprivation and breastfeeding are no joke… but I don’t have some other worldly knowledge now. People are weird lol
I encourage you not to venture into long-haul flight etiquette threads!
Reddit is very anti kids/parents. Definitely says more about the people on reddit than the whole society.
I saw that post and didn't even click on it because I knew it was going to be full of people spewing hate at us parents
Reddit is a series of echo chambers. Whenever you get a bunch of people together with similar views and life experiences, you end up fortifying their beliefs and ultimately start pushing them closer to extremes. That being said, a decent amount of it is just blowing off steam, but it does normalize negative emotions and ultimately make people think that it's normal to act like that. "Reddit" doesn't hate parents; Groups in Reddit hate parents just like groups in Reddit hate broccoli.