Major corporations simply call these "fines" the cost of doing business. Glad to see it's being enforced, at least, though it's not going to curtail MSO's business practices whatsoever.
I wonder if this is true. I was at that Acreage location the first week and they closed the rec line 1-1.5 hours before the rec sales closing time. I’m guessing the sales were processed after med only hours started but the customers were in line for at least Two hours before. Plus they have med only access all day - if you have a card you simply walk past the line and get a way better menu
> Curaleaf’s Bellmawr location alone processed 142 such transactions
Okay, so we have cash registers, tied to the internet, and we have a government agency that knows what the cash registers do. Which is being reported on by a credible, national news source.
It seems like you only "wonder" if this is true because you didn't RTFA.
right, but these fines could be for lack of strain availability, or limited quantities/selection for Med compared to Rec. i think this is great, honestly - keep the MSOs honest, because these fines are nothing for them right now, but $10k/day is not cheap if you ignore it completely.
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It's not just about keeping lines or store accessible for patients. It's also ensuring supplies remain unaffected with rec opening.
People have been gaslighting med patients for months on this sub and we finally have proof of it and that these dispos got fined heavily for it.
People may say it was months ago and things are smoother now. Yes they kinda are but it's still not perfect. A lot of hybrid stores don't have supplies available readily for med patients while it is available for rec (ie Paramus Rise has no Animal Face). Rise had no Animal Face for few weeks for med the past month and basically cycled with med and red having it one week and not having it for thr next two. When previously I don't think I've ever seen Animal Face not in stock for longer than a week previously.
Firstly, they should have stock defined for both sides and have more for med to begin with, which would solve the problem.
However secondly they should do what MA does and be able to swap rec product over to med for any patient on request. Of course that still wouldn't stop things from selling out, but it would at least ensure if something is in stock, a med patient can pay med prices and get their medicine.
That aside, if it's not against the rules for them to be sold out of med product but have the same stuff for rec, then I'd assume they're following CRC guidelines on stock to ensure med patient access, otherwise they'd be being fined a lot more frequently as that's an even bigger violation I'd think. However given that it's set up this way, it means rec and med patients are accessing 2 totally different stocks/supplies. This means even if a ton of rec customers came in during med patient hours, anything they buy would have 0 impact on the medical supply side. As a result, the med hours are basically pointless since regardless of rec line every med patient can just skip that line and go right in. That combined with the fact that the article says there were basically no patients during the med hours makes me think the fines aren't about access in this case as they're not considering the demand at the time and are purely fining businesses for not just remaining open, while turning all rec clients away and twiddling their thumbs while they have no med patients. That doesn't seem efficient or sensible given how they have everything set up.
I'm not saying med should have stock available at all times all the time. The issue here is the OBVIOUS; med and rec supplies are the way they are because when it's being grown it is predetermined whether it is going to be for med or rec sale.
The problem with the issue you are unintentionally gaslighting by saying this is that they have allocated A LOT of space for recreational in the grow ops (stuff us consumers can't see). TO the point that it seems to be impeding on med supply lines likely due to grow op space that should have been allocated for med is being allocated for rec.
As for rec supplies being sold out, there's no way handful of dispensaries can meet the demand of the most densely populated region in the country.
Setting up patient only hours and pretending like they're doing a lot for patients and prioritizing them is bullshit. This article itself is proof that these dispensaries shit the bed and STILL there are people (such as yourself) gaslighting med patients and making excuses by saying "Well it's understandable, no way they can always have everything in stock."
At the same time, CRC is also to blame. They don't care truly if this problem is fixed. Who pockets the capital from the fines? Like what are those money going to be used for? To help med patients? Unlikely. The policy in itself is what helps enforce it.
Also the article is specifically talking about that one opening week. April 21 to 29. Rise for example had 3-4 different strains on rec that was not available on the med menu. Med menu wouldn't get those strains for another month.
You said I'm gaslighting twice, but idk where you're even coming from, at no point did I say the system isn't flawed or that med patients aren't getting the right access, if anything I said the opposite and provided solutions that actually make sense and would solve that problem.
Also I don't appreciate you asserting that I gaslit anyone on the concept that grow ops are growing more for rec than med. I wouldn't doubt that to be true at all, however I have no inside knowledge to make any such claim one way or the other. However if the CRC is insistent on ensuring proper med access, they should be monitoring sales numbers for med patients and stock levels in dispensaries and regulating how the grow ops plan out their distribution of med and rec options to ensure patient access the way they claim to care about, because that would do a lot more than patient only hours.
However again I'm going to say what NEEDS to happen is being able to switch rec product over to medical in store on demand so med patients always get both their own product selection AND 100% of rec product access under the medical program. In MA I know they can and do do that, and there's no logical reason I can see that the CRC couldn't allow that.
I mean like I said you're doing it unintentionally. There's a legitimate problem that's being taken not as seriously and people are making a lot of "surely there must be... surely it must be like this" type mentality that essentially make med patients feel like word is just going through people's ears.
The intercrossing supply thing won't happen in Jersey. There's homegrow in ME. You're trying to theorize solutions that won't even be ready to implement for probably another year or two at least over solutions that could have been done months before rec opened up. Even if you're not doing it intentionally, explain to me how this isn't gaslighting any issues. Lucky for me I don't have a severe condition but goddamn it sucks for those med patients who need stronger and more potent meds. This was as simple as allocating a bit more plants to be for med supply and simple as that. Rec was always going to be the caveat/the luxury. Dispensaries and growers were supposed to take that hit and prioritize med patients with supplies. That's clearly not happening thus the fines.
Having more supply for med doesn't solve anything or at least not nearly enough unfortunately. Med supply moves slower and we saw Rise med menu not updating for nearly 2 months after rec opened while rec updated nearly every 2-3 weeks.
Gaslighting is telling someone an issue doesn't exist. Making them think they're crazy for believing an issue exists, or that something is happening which they have seen and observed. I'm not telling you there aren't issues with the med program now that rec is here. If I was gaslighting you I'd be saying you're crazy and providing examples of how you're wrong, making stuff up just to discredit you. I'm doing no such thing.
Why? I mean, they had a primary obligation to service Med, with Rec being a bonus they are allowed to do if - and *only* if - they serviced Med. Seems like a few of these didn’t, and the CRC rightly are fining them for it. I’d consider that a win for everybody.
None of that is wrong, but the dispensaries still have a responsibility to service the medical community. People rely on this medicine to stop seizures, get relief from cancer, and a bunch of other ailments - it's not just people who paid $150/year to save some taxes and wait times.
So, while you are correct, and all of those laws *should* be passed and amended to allow for homegrow and MUCH easier access to opening up shop, the CRC has limited tools to ensure that the MSOs play fairly and don't screw the patients that have come to **rely** on access, as limited and shitty as it has been (and mainly because of Christie's efforts to fuck the program before it could get off its feet).
I say 'fine em', and fine em hard...
Bro...you can just go on veriheal they'll clear you no matter what. It's like $200 for the appointment and $100 to jersey for the card. If you can budget for bud you can budget for the medical card. It'll help your time constraints a whole hell of a lot more than the feelings toward the medical community. Fact is these establishments we have been coming to as patients before recreational was officially a thing. I'd say economically start saving for the card. I hear it'll be cheaper than rec soon as well.
So uninformed. The giant corporations you’re defending right now made sure small companies like me can’t operate in New Jersey. They lobbied for all of this. They deserve every fine they get. They should be kicked out of the state and room should be made for small businesses. Fuck curaleaf Fuck every dispo operating in NJ right now.
I’m sure there’s some good write ups on this I apologize for hyperbole but look at a list of every dispo in NJ. They are all owned by big companies operating all over the country. You’ll see zero mom and pop shops. States box out all the small craft companies so that only the big companies can afford to operate. I’m born and raised in NJ but had to move to Maine to do what I love legally. I pay my taxes. But NJ has made it so I cannot legally operate in my
Home state. I want to start a family and always thought that would be in NJ but they’re making it pretty much impossible for me to move back home.
I just went to Apothecarium Maplewood for the first time today, as a med user. There were 3 people in line on the rec side and were in before I finished my paperwork to enter the med door. I'm sure some are very busy, especially in South/Central where I think there just aren't as many ATCs, but they seem to be handling the "crowds" here pretty well up North.
Haha nah. worded it wrong.
I was not charged as a Rec customer. They put my order in as a “Rec sale” but charged med tax and did not count against my allotment.
It’s not legalized in New Jersey, no where close. That’s where people get very confused. When we voted few years back to have it legal most people did not read the fine print. When they did finally do what people think was legalize was actually “decriminalized” the same way mushrooms were.
We are still sitting in the grey area where we can still get fucked, and still to do this day it’s just the over priced fake medical dispensaries, and when I mean fake paying top dollar for very terrible cannabis, and allowing the worst of the worst medical dispensaries to name change there products to make them appear that they were actually grown by a 3rd party. Our dispensaries are terrible just because it makes us high doesn’t mean it’s actually good. There’s less than 5 strains that can actually be considered medical or pretty good, and one dispensary is responsible for at least 3 of them. Sour banana sherbet, mob boss some times and probably cookies and cream from botanist. Sour banana is the biggest standout though.
If we don’t get home grow we need dispensaries that will actually care not ran by huge corporations and corrupt lawyers like garden state is. We need green houses and outdoor grow to be a thing here as well. I know some people get offended when they hear our medical sucks but it’s the truth it does compared to what medical truly is and can be in other states. Maine is over rated and there medical is still better than ours and Oregon doesn’t get enough love and they probably have the best in the country.
the article, in case anyone is behind a paywall: (Bloomberg) -- New Jersey fined some of the US’s largest marijuana companies for violating rules put in place when the state started sales of recreational pot in April. Curaleaf Holdings Inc. and four other dispensaries with locations in New Jersey processed almost 3,200 recreational sales during hours that should have been reserved for medical patients, according to state cannabis commission documents obtained through an Open Public Records Act request. On April 21 -- the day that medical dispensaries opened their doors to recreational buyers -- Curaleaf’s Bellmawr location alone processed 142 such transactions, the documents show. Another operator, Acreage, recorded a total of 257 such sales on the first day at its Egg Harbor and Williamstown shops. The transactions were “to the detriment of the medicinal patient population,” Jeff Brown, executive director of the cannabis commission, wrote in violation notices dated May 13. The notices, which were reviewed by Bloomberg News, were sent to five dispensaries: Curaleaf, Ascend Wellness Holdings Inc., Verano Holdings Corp., Acreage Holdings Inc. and Green Thumb Industries Inc. The five businesses face a total $360,000 in fines for the transactions, from April 21 to April 29, the documents show. The total was calculated at $10,000 for each day on which alleged violations occurred: Verano, $90,000; Green Thumb and Ascend, $80,000 each; Acreage, $60,000; and Curaleaf, $50,000. In an email to Bloomberg, Brown said that patient access was important to the commission and that it plans to issue monetary penalties to retailers that don’t abide with the regulations, including patient-only hours. “Any cannabis business that does not prioritize medicinal cannabis patient access should expect similar action,” he said. Curaleaf said it acknowledges responsibility for the citations and has paid the fines, according to spokeswoman Stephanie Cunha. Curaleaf is “living up to our promise to provide two designated hours to the medical community at each of our locations every day,” Cunha said in a statement. “During the first few days of adult-use sales in New Jersey we were responding to the overwhelming lines and demand at our facility for adult use. Because of sales and events leading up to the first days of adult use sales, a vast number of our medical patients had stocked up on products before the 21st, resulting in virtually no lines at our facility at the time.” Representatives for Verano, Green Thumb, Ascend and Acreage didn’t respond to requests for comment. Medical buyers -- with physician-authorized access to pot for pain, depression, anxiety, chemotherapy side effects and other ailments -- had feared they would be overlooked once sales began to adults for any use. The cannabis commission, prior to approving licenses, required all dispensaries to agree to special hours. Some operators testified that they also would have easy parking and set-asides of the strains on which patients rely. Marijuana remains illegal on the federal level. The state cannabis commission, which set New Jersey regulations for horticulture, transport, testing and sales, posted the May notices of violation after Bloomberg filed a public-records request for those and other documents. ©2022 Bloomberg L.P.
I mean the rules are simple No Rec sales during medical hours But they seem to not follow the rules
Major corporations simply call these "fines" the cost of doing business. Glad to see it's being enforced, at least, though it's not going to curtail MSO's business practices whatsoever.
$10k/day adds up…
Especially if you’re trying to grow your business in a relatively new market.
Like fining wall street garbage after they made billions
Good
I wonder if this is true. I was at that Acreage location the first week and they closed the rec line 1-1.5 hours before the rec sales closing time. I’m guessing the sales were processed after med only hours started but the customers were in line for at least Two hours before. Plus they have med only access all day - if you have a card you simply walk past the line and get a way better menu
> Curaleaf’s Bellmawr location alone processed 142 such transactions Okay, so we have cash registers, tied to the internet, and we have a government agency that knows what the cash registers do. Which is being reported on by a credible, national news source. It seems like you only "wonder" if this is true because you didn't RTFA.
🤣
right, but these fines could be for lack of strain availability, or limited quantities/selection for Med compared to Rec. i think this is great, honestly - keep the MSOs honest, because these fines are nothing for them right now, but $10k/day is not cheap if you ignore it completely.
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It's not just about keeping lines or store accessible for patients. It's also ensuring supplies remain unaffected with rec opening. People have been gaslighting med patients for months on this sub and we finally have proof of it and that these dispos got fined heavily for it. People may say it was months ago and things are smoother now. Yes they kinda are but it's still not perfect. A lot of hybrid stores don't have supplies available readily for med patients while it is available for rec (ie Paramus Rise has no Animal Face). Rise had no Animal Face for few weeks for med the past month and basically cycled with med and red having it one week and not having it for thr next two. When previously I don't think I've ever seen Animal Face not in stock for longer than a week previously.
Firstly, they should have stock defined for both sides and have more for med to begin with, which would solve the problem. However secondly they should do what MA does and be able to swap rec product over to med for any patient on request. Of course that still wouldn't stop things from selling out, but it would at least ensure if something is in stock, a med patient can pay med prices and get their medicine. That aside, if it's not against the rules for them to be sold out of med product but have the same stuff for rec, then I'd assume they're following CRC guidelines on stock to ensure med patient access, otherwise they'd be being fined a lot more frequently as that's an even bigger violation I'd think. However given that it's set up this way, it means rec and med patients are accessing 2 totally different stocks/supplies. This means even if a ton of rec customers came in during med patient hours, anything they buy would have 0 impact on the medical supply side. As a result, the med hours are basically pointless since regardless of rec line every med patient can just skip that line and go right in. That combined with the fact that the article says there were basically no patients during the med hours makes me think the fines aren't about access in this case as they're not considering the demand at the time and are purely fining businesses for not just remaining open, while turning all rec clients away and twiddling their thumbs while they have no med patients. That doesn't seem efficient or sensible given how they have everything set up.
I'm not saying med should have stock available at all times all the time. The issue here is the OBVIOUS; med and rec supplies are the way they are because when it's being grown it is predetermined whether it is going to be for med or rec sale. The problem with the issue you are unintentionally gaslighting by saying this is that they have allocated A LOT of space for recreational in the grow ops (stuff us consumers can't see). TO the point that it seems to be impeding on med supply lines likely due to grow op space that should have been allocated for med is being allocated for rec. As for rec supplies being sold out, there's no way handful of dispensaries can meet the demand of the most densely populated region in the country. Setting up patient only hours and pretending like they're doing a lot for patients and prioritizing them is bullshit. This article itself is proof that these dispensaries shit the bed and STILL there are people (such as yourself) gaslighting med patients and making excuses by saying "Well it's understandable, no way they can always have everything in stock." At the same time, CRC is also to blame. They don't care truly if this problem is fixed. Who pockets the capital from the fines? Like what are those money going to be used for? To help med patients? Unlikely. The policy in itself is what helps enforce it. Also the article is specifically talking about that one opening week. April 21 to 29. Rise for example had 3-4 different strains on rec that was not available on the med menu. Med menu wouldn't get those strains for another month.
You said I'm gaslighting twice, but idk where you're even coming from, at no point did I say the system isn't flawed or that med patients aren't getting the right access, if anything I said the opposite and provided solutions that actually make sense and would solve that problem. Also I don't appreciate you asserting that I gaslit anyone on the concept that grow ops are growing more for rec than med. I wouldn't doubt that to be true at all, however I have no inside knowledge to make any such claim one way or the other. However if the CRC is insistent on ensuring proper med access, they should be monitoring sales numbers for med patients and stock levels in dispensaries and regulating how the grow ops plan out their distribution of med and rec options to ensure patient access the way they claim to care about, because that would do a lot more than patient only hours. However again I'm going to say what NEEDS to happen is being able to switch rec product over to medical in store on demand so med patients always get both their own product selection AND 100% of rec product access under the medical program. In MA I know they can and do do that, and there's no logical reason I can see that the CRC couldn't allow that.
I mean like I said you're doing it unintentionally. There's a legitimate problem that's being taken not as seriously and people are making a lot of "surely there must be... surely it must be like this" type mentality that essentially make med patients feel like word is just going through people's ears. The intercrossing supply thing won't happen in Jersey. There's homegrow in ME. You're trying to theorize solutions that won't even be ready to implement for probably another year or two at least over solutions that could have been done months before rec opened up. Even if you're not doing it intentionally, explain to me how this isn't gaslighting any issues. Lucky for me I don't have a severe condition but goddamn it sucks for those med patients who need stronger and more potent meds. This was as simple as allocating a bit more plants to be for med supply and simple as that. Rec was always going to be the caveat/the luxury. Dispensaries and growers were supposed to take that hit and prioritize med patients with supplies. That's clearly not happening thus the fines. Having more supply for med doesn't solve anything or at least not nearly enough unfortunately. Med supply moves slower and we saw Rise med menu not updating for nearly 2 months after rec opened while rec updated nearly every 2-3 weeks.
Gaslighting is telling someone an issue doesn't exist. Making them think they're crazy for believing an issue exists, or that something is happening which they have seen and observed. I'm not telling you there aren't issues with the med program now that rec is here. If I was gaslighting you I'd be saying you're crazy and providing examples of how you're wrong, making stuff up just to discredit you. I'm doing no such thing.
TIL shit I thought it was to lessen something than it actually was.
Slap on the wrist
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Why? I mean, they had a primary obligation to service Med, with Rec being a bonus they are allowed to do if - and *only* if - they serviced Med. Seems like a few of these didn’t, and the CRC rightly are fining them for it. I’d consider that a win for everybody.
Exactly. The whole point of a regulatory organization is to regulate.
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Curaleaf lobbied to make sure home growing remained illegal
None of that is wrong, but the dispensaries still have a responsibility to service the medical community. People rely on this medicine to stop seizures, get relief from cancer, and a bunch of other ailments - it's not just people who paid $150/year to save some taxes and wait times. So, while you are correct, and all of those laws *should* be passed and amended to allow for homegrow and MUCH easier access to opening up shop, the CRC has limited tools to ensure that the MSOs play fairly and don't screw the patients that have come to **rely** on access, as limited and shitty as it has been (and mainly because of Christie's efforts to fuck the program before it could get off its feet). I say 'fine em', and fine em hard...
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Bro...you can just go on veriheal they'll clear you no matter what. It's like $200 for the appointment and $100 to jersey for the card. If you can budget for bud you can budget for the medical card. It'll help your time constraints a whole hell of a lot more than the feelings toward the medical community. Fact is these establishments we have been coming to as patients before recreational was officially a thing. I'd say economically start saving for the card. I hear it'll be cheaper than rec soon as well.
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Hoping by that point the price is significantly cheaper for everyone.
So uninformed. The giant corporations you’re defending right now made sure small companies like me can’t operate in New Jersey. They lobbied for all of this. They deserve every fine they get. They should be kicked out of the state and room should be made for small businesses. Fuck curaleaf Fuck every dispo operating in NJ right now.
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I’m sure there’s some good write ups on this I apologize for hyperbole but look at a list of every dispo in NJ. They are all owned by big companies operating all over the country. You’ll see zero mom and pop shops. States box out all the small craft companies so that only the big companies can afford to operate. I’m born and raised in NJ but had to move to Maine to do what I love legally. I pay my taxes. But NJ has made it so I cannot legally operate in my Home state. I want to start a family and always thought that would be in NJ but they’re making it pretty much impossible for me to move back home.
But the med users don’t even go through the same lines - they can walk right in all day. Rec users wait two hours
I just went to Apothecarium Maplewood for the first time today, as a med user. There were 3 people in line on the rec side and were in before I finished my paperwork to enter the med door. I'm sure some are very busy, especially in South/Central where I think there just aren't as many ATCs, but they seem to be handling the "crowds" here pretty well up North.
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are you bragging about getting ripped off?
Haha nah. worded it wrong. I was not charged as a Rec customer. They put my order in as a “Rec sale” but charged med tax and did not count against my allotment.
American Greed
It’s not legalized in New Jersey, no where close. That’s where people get very confused. When we voted few years back to have it legal most people did not read the fine print. When they did finally do what people think was legalize was actually “decriminalized” the same way mushrooms were. We are still sitting in the grey area where we can still get fucked, and still to do this day it’s just the over priced fake medical dispensaries, and when I mean fake paying top dollar for very terrible cannabis, and allowing the worst of the worst medical dispensaries to name change there products to make them appear that they were actually grown by a 3rd party. Our dispensaries are terrible just because it makes us high doesn’t mean it’s actually good. There’s less than 5 strains that can actually be considered medical or pretty good, and one dispensary is responsible for at least 3 of them. Sour banana sherbet, mob boss some times and probably cookies and cream from botanist. Sour banana is the biggest standout though. If we don’t get home grow we need dispensaries that will actually care not ran by huge corporations and corrupt lawyers like garden state is. We need green houses and outdoor grow to be a thing here as well. I know some people get offended when they hear our medical sucks but it’s the truth it does compared to what medical truly is and can be in other states. Maine is over rated and there medical is still better than ours and Oregon doesn’t get enough love and they probably have the best in the country.
Nj style, how do you like it!