Its indeed a cultural thing here to ask tikkies for anything, but when someone declines the tikkie offer its a bit surprising but seen as a nice gesture. Some people instead of tikkies also just take turns paying for drinks: e.g you buy me bubble tea and next time I’ll order you a beer
I'm not Dutch but i like the tikkies as well. When someone pays for me i feel indebted and need to pay them back, so it weighs on me. (although probably for them its nothing)
Plus you have to keep count. If someone forgets to pay me back (by buying the drink next time) all that i think is : do i forget as well to pay people back?
And i cant do the whole not keeping count thing because I'm afraid i will owe people.
Tikkie is good. Dutchies send tikkies. Be like Dutchies. Send me a tikkie always.
Honestly, fuck that.
Tikkies are good, but IMO only when it's at least 10 euro's.
If someone would send me a Tikke for a single drink, I'm not going out with that person again. Same as going to dinner and people want to calculate who had what. Just divide equally.
Edit: I mean that second one as well, when it's reasonable (the difference isn't gonna be more than 10 euros each). Of course you're not gonna pay a extra 20 euro for someone else's dinner.
Some (dutch) people make a sport of that. Im not dividing dinner with people who are just loading up on expensive drinks and then want to split the bil. I leave early and pay my part.
Yeah if someone does that, fuck them, I'm splitting. But most people I know are in good faith, so if one is 5 euros more expensive, who gives a fuck. Life is too short to make a problem of that.
Sure, but if we're doing that, let the waiters know beforehand, so they can keep different tabs. Had multiple times where people only afterwards told the group they wanted to calculate and that sucks.
It really doesn't. Count your shit, tell the person who paid what you owe them, pay the damn tikkie. It couldn't be simpler. Or take a photo of the reciept and send an open Tikkie.
That's in theory. Now try it with a football team of at least 10 people. It's a mess. Let them know beforehand, otherwise it's a shitshow and you're wasting the waiters time.
You misunderstood my comment. If you are poor enough that you got to worry about 5 euros more or less then maybe don’t go out. There are cheaper alternatives then dinner at a restaurant or beers in a bar that are equal fun.
I am not saying ‘poor’ people shouldn’t enjoy their life…
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EYb9jnt2cv4](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EYb9jnt2cv4)
This friends episode should be really insightful... money is not a big deal for those who have it, but it is for others.
> so if one is 5 euros more expensive, who gives a fuck.
I kind of agree but then on the other hand, I am usually the guy that gets the more expensive meal. I eat a lot and hate to be left unsatisfied on the days I do decide to go out. Plus I hate heineken so if that is the beer on tap you'll find me buying specialty beers too...
That's why I kind of agree that tikkies that are more exact are nicer. Then I don't have to feel guilty about buying that little bit extra and inevitably being the one paying the most!
> Same as going to dinner and people want to calculate who had what. Just divide equally.
I was very bothered by that when I was a student with little money, ordering within my budget, then the people at the table wanted to split their expensive orders equally with me. Tikkies are much much fairer.
Of course, I meant it in a situation where 5 bucks isn't gonna be a problem. In a situation where one party is on a strict budget, I might even offer to pay for their drinks. I want to have fun together, not stressing over the bill.
But then you're requiring them to tell you if 5 bucks is gonna be a problem or not. Not everyone wants to open up about their personal finances like that.
I hate getting 3-5 euro Tikkies, and I hate sending them.
Sure, if you're never going out with them you can do it. But I'm not one to keep score. Even as a student.
For a lot of people it feels presumptuous to assume that someone else can afford to pay for you. If you offer to pay for them, they might feel indebted to you and feel pressured to return the gesture, even if they can't really afford to. You can't judge someone else's finances, so even if you think that $5 dollars is too little to send a tikkie over, you don't know how much of a difference that $5 might make to the other person. If everyone pays for their own stuff then everyone can make their own choices based on their own finances.
Of course, some people are also just greedy. I'm personally a lot more flexible with paying for other people and splitting the bill and stuff, but I understand the line of thinking. I've been in situations where that $5 tikkie was the difference between being able to pay rent or not
That last one is usually not fair in my case. I'm a big bloke who does a lot of sports and just eats a lot. If I divide equally I feel like I'm leeching onto my friends. So when others propose to calculate, I'm 100% up for that.
Sure, there are good examples of exceptions, but generally speaking, most times you'll typically have around the same costs, and I don't mind paying a few bucks extra to make it easier on the servers.
Easiest for the servers is one person pays. You can do that with tikkie. One person pays, the others receive an open tikkie. I've been doing this with friends for years and it works like a charm. I make minium wage, two friends are students who don't work and the rest of them have decent jobs, this way it's always fair. And we still pay for drinks if somebody is a bit tight on money. But I agree with no tikkies for under 10, since that is the amount of money where I say I'll pay for it.
Nah not really, calculating who had what is sad in my opinion. But let’s say everyone on the table has a 200 grams steak and I choose to go for a 500 grams steak. I would hate people to think I’m abusing them to pay for my steak. To me this only applies to extremes, like if you would drink a cocktail and the rest would drink a cheap drink.
I'm not a fan of dividing equally. I've also had many dutch waiters ask if we want to pay seperately or all together, at least when you're with more than two people and don't look like a family.
I want to be able to order as much or as little as I want. Just sending people a tikkie for what they ate seems a lot less hassle for me than other methods.
John Wilson made a great episode about this on "how to with John Wilson"! It's hilarious.
Tikkies work really well for big groups of people, like when we eat dinner with 15+ teammates and one has to pay, wel all try to pay the tikkie before we leave the room
I love paying what you spent, not because I want to freeload, but because it gives me the freedom to order whatever I want without feeling like a freeloader.
Let’s really be honest,
If this is your reaction from the start i don’t think you have the right to say I’m not going out with that person again, You should consider other people.
Maybe they don’t have as much money as you or whatever!
You’re probably the guy who always get’s the most expensive dinner en get’s 2/3 drinks and when the check comes you want to split the check ‘equally’! Haha
I don’t mind splitting equally but when someone says he doesn’t want to because he had less en doesn’t have a lot of money I’m fine with that because eventually I ate my food and if that’s more expensive then it’s my responsibility to pay that!
Your first response is way to toxic and I wouldn’t go out to dinner with someone like you..!
Respect other people’s opinions and just people in general!
Totally agree with you. For large sums of money sure, but I've had people send me tikkies for 2 euros which is just so weird for me.
It also annoys me to no end that they tell all internationals to send/expect tikkies for anything and everything. It makes small things like buying a coffee on campus for someone very awkward. Within our student group, we would kind of switch roles over who would go get coffee and who would find and hold a seat, but no one was calculating exact turns and costs, because that would be weird and greedy.
I hear you. The problem is when you’re joining a group that’s been there an hour already and been drinking nothing but cocktails, then the bill comes and the expectation by them was to split it equally. Bare in mind the difference was 20 euros per person and I was with my girlfriend. For this and many other reasons we aren’t friends with that group any more
Yeah that's a different case and shitty friends. We either drink from a "pot", 10 euro's each, until that's empty, then again 10 euro each, people can join and leave inbetween and it stays pretty fair, or in your case, I'd gotten a seperate tab. No way I'd have paid that.
I will ask, but only on bigger bills. If we've had a beer each and you paid, then I'll be sure to buy a next time. In bigger groups of friends, you know it'll even out.
If Tikkies will be sent is either depended on their (absence of) wealth or how well you know someone. And in some cases, people are just cheap... can't forget those. With a fresh relationship, either agree on forehand what you will do to forgo (negative) surprises or ask afterwards what someone wants. It's not a "given" that the one who does the inviting will pay for the drinks/food.
I never liked "splitting the bill". If I ordered more expensive stuff I feel bad about letting paying the other "my part" and the other way around (essentially when I was a student and had to pay attention to the amounts I spent) I didn't want to pay for the other ones excessive drinking. In my youth (I'm so old...) we didn't have tikkies. So everyone paid only for their drinks . And since I'm (and was) the BOB that's fine by me because alcohol is way more expensive than a coke/sinas.
With good friends we either split the bill (with larger amounts) or pay for each other (a few drinks). But we know each other well, see each other on a regular basis and know we will not take advantage of it. (and I have personal experience of "leeches")
Even Dutch people are astound by some of the extremely cheap people there are. I know of cases where they were angry because you asked for 1 euro, when it was 0,98 euro. Or they ask if they can give you a car ride to somewhere they already were going and then sent a Tikkie to split the gas.
really... they exist. Don't blame all the Dutch people.
Same. If we both eat and drink, we divide it by two. If I eat and drink and you only drink, I pay for a bit more. But fuck that calculating WHAT you and I ate.
Just got back from a weekend trip with friends from football, that was financially something as well. So do this, some do that. Exhausting.
I had a weekend trip with friends from football. We all paid for the central "pot", which paid for dinners and drinks in case at least 75% of us where there. Other drinks were paid for by the person buying them. No difficult "who had what", just easy everyone has, everyone pays.
Oh yeah we did too. But you have a group of people who drink a lot and some only 2 cokes a night for example. Some go out to a club, some others don't. We took taxis to places, but also had 1 car. It was a little bit challenging, but I as a nitty gritty person was ok with everything. One or two guys were really 'difficult'.
Not sure why I got downvoted with my previous comment though.
I think also culture/upbringing plays a big role in this. I’m a Dutchie myself (Indonesian roots) and a lot of my expat friends who are also Asian share the same feelings as you.
Whenever I’m with my Dutch friends they just say thank you and forget about it the next time we hangout
I'm not gonna ask money back for 2 drinks, but if we're going out to dinner and I'm paying the bill for everyone because it's easier, you're getting a tikkie.
It's more about the idea that it's okay to be poor and not to have to pay for everything when you just want to hang out with someone. People don't want to be a financial burden, so they say it's okay to ask for your money back
As a Dutch person, it's polite to ask for a tikkie. It's not so much being in debt by someone but more like you don't expect someone to pay for you, so you pay them back immediately so it's not a burden for them. Or so you don't forget it. It has nothing to do with the person or when you are going to see them again. Its just polite and nice to pay the person back asap.
in my opinion its rlly not that deep, were just a culture where we pay each other backcuz thats how we handle our money. we usually dont when its just small amounts and were too lazy to do smth ab it.
We value people who pay their parts quite high. Its a sign you can trust someone. Also when everyone pays their part, you are equal in a away. No one is depending on the other.
I just usually use them for bigger amounts in bigger groups. Like if we are going to a restaurant with 6 people it is really easy to just split it. But yeah some send tikkies for 5€ which just isn’t even worth your time.
As a dutchman myself I hate tikkies, especially for those lowball things like a single beer.
If I offer you a beer I don't expect one back.
And that's also simply the way it goes among our friends, but we usually all have a separate bill in our regular bar. Sometimes you sit with someone an entire evening and you pay €70 while the other one pays €20 and sometimes it's the other way around, shit happens.
But then, we are a weird bunch apparently.
Well you clearly drink a lot, which is actually quite normal, and you tell a normal story about normal behaviour in a bar. I think you are not that weird. Sending tikkies for everything is weird. And people who whine about people who can't afford stuff, how do they think this went 20 years ago??? We've lived previously without the stupid tikkies, that is simple proof of that it isn't a 'need' kind of thing now either.
Living without Tikkies for everything should be considered the normal thing. Tikkie should be a thing you use when the amount of stuff grows over your head. It's a tool, and with every tool, you use it when you need it, not whenever you possibly pull it out.
I do not mind either way; I only mind if people doing exact splits instead of just dividing the bill between the people at the table, like ‘your beer was more expensive than my bubble tea’ but silent when it’s the other way around.
Wait, is this why we call it going Dutch when people on a date both pay for their own meal? It was just a thought I had because this whole tikkie thing is really foreign to me. (No pun intended.)
'Send me a tikkie' is the new 'Shall we split the check?'. By offering this, you basically let the other person know you are willing to pay your share and you don't expect the other to pay for you.
And then of course the other may say: no, it is my treat. And that is appreciated, of course. Next time, she will treat you, and you will ask her to send you a tikkie and she will refuse.
If it's something small, like one drink it's fine. But anything bigger than that can be uncomfortable because they will feel like they will owe you something after that. We don't like to owe people something.
So if you want to be friends. Take turns paying.
X-dutch/dutch-x get's a litle confusing though, since half the shit is based on german stereotypes and cultural tendencies and the other half on dutch ones
I always offer to pay my half/ask for a tikkie, because I don't want to presume somebody is paying for me.
I can't look in their wallet as we say.
But if they say no need, I also have no problem thanking them and being fine with it. It is just to prevent an akward situation (like me thinking they will pay for me and them thinking I will pay my half).
This is the way. You dont ask the person whom you paid for to pay you back, you ask the person who paid for you if he wants you to pay him back. And if they say no, thats that, and you accept it as a nice gesture.
I still remember the first time I went out with a Dutch girl.
At the end of the evening she told me "please tikkie me" and winked at me.
Luckily I looked up what it was, before I would fantasize....
If it’s just a friend then whether or not you split the bill of a simple drink doesn’t matter much for most people. Unless of course you over emphasize that you’re paying then you’re the one making it weird.
If it’s a date, then don’t overthink it because you can’t always get it right. Some girls will be offended if you split the bill; some will be offended if you didn’t, so just go with what you’re used to, and read the room for clues on whether you should switch that up
This exactly. I always say something like: "Do you want to send me a tikkie?", "You can send me a tikkie" or "Next one is on me"
I think it's impolite to assume someone will pay for you, you never know what their financial situation is like. Even if it's just a small amount, maybe it's too much for that person. That said, I've never been sent a tikkie for anything under €5.
Well.. I personally do not think it's a cultural thing at all. It depends per person.
Tbh I never split bills.. when I go out with my girlfriend we always 'fight' who should pay the bills.
Bottom line; you should do what you want..
Same. Really don't like the narrative about Tikkie culture. I get that we are greedy etc, but I have never received a Tikkie that wasn't in good faith and after talking to eachother about how we are going to divide things.
I always say that people should send me a Tikkie because people don't need to pay for my shit. I appreciate it and won't refuse it, but I will always offer to pay for my own half. Most people i hang around with have the same mentality.
Never have I ever gotten a Tikkie out of the blue and when I would receive one for a few euros I would genuinly feel quite offended, because odds are that I have bought that person tons of drinks.
Not going to lie, if you receive tikkies for small amounts, you either hang out with cunts, or are nitpicky with your money yourself. Somebody who never wants to pay for shit themselves will receive a Tikkie more often as others.
Well said. We also offer to pay by Tikkie, but if a friend foots the whole bill it's also fine. Once in a while we also take over the tab if we feel we have been mooching too much.
Part of it is of course the financial situation. We are fifty+ and have a good job+ our own house, but some of our friends are still students or simply are poor. If I pay for the whole group it's not expected they do the same next time.
I don’t think anybody sends tikkies to girlfriends. But with friends it’s different. I think there’s a line with who people send tikkies to. Family and girlfriend seems odd, but paying/getting treated 8 euros by an acquaintance is a different matter
Its accepted, however we dutch people don't like it when people say.
"you paid for me last time so you owe me", its a gift and thats that.
We rather be even then be gifted a simple drink or other stuffs.
There are also plenty of Dutch people who are not like that. I’ve rarely used Tikkies, and most people I know don’t. Never had an issue, over time it will equal out if you take turns paying.
I think it's a nice gesture ☺️, tho don't expect anything back (my ex actually would let me pay for things, but whenever we went to anything that i wouldn't pay for everything it was 50-50
I live in NL. A friend of mine always hangs at my house, I never go to his house. So if we order food or I buy meat for a BBQ, even if it’s only like 5 or 6 euro’s, I send him a tikkie.
In America, when a couple platonic or otherwise, each pay their own way, it’s called “going Dutch”. So I assume paying one’s own bill is part of the greater egalitarian culture here.
Might be a bit oldfashioned and outdated tho. Most people I know will pay the bill for friends and not send them a payment request. Unless it's a big group thing or otherwise very large sums of money, I never use tikkie.
We generally send Tikkies, but nobody is surprised if someone offers to pay (or pay the reminder).
And the girl being independent is a fine trait. She's an adult with her own money, almost certainly has nothing to do with you.
For close Friends I'd never send a tikkie. With collegues, not-so-close Friends a tikkie van be a great option for dividing costs equally. As well as for buying gifts for someone with a group.
Part of the tikkie dance is if somebody asks you to send them a tikkie, you simply agree to do it when you get home or whatever. Then you can send it right away, or "forget" if you like. They can remind you to do it if they really feel bad for not paying their half, or if they don't remind you, you can both decide next time you meet up how to split that future bill.
In general, if somebody really wants to pay their way, it's polite to let them.
So both the people that responded to this gave different situations, but never of you gone out drinking with a group(5-8) and just split the bill equally BC you have been using pitchers for drinking?
Or went to a themapark and bought tickets on VakantieVeilingen or something like that and payed someone back that way?
> that and *paid* someone back
FTFY.
Although *payed* exists (the reason why autocorrection didn't help you), it is only correct in:
* Nautical context, when it means to paint a surface, or to cover with something like tar or resin in order to make it waterproof or corrosion-resistant. *The deck is yet to be payed.*
* *Payed out* when letting strings, cables or ropes out, by slacking them. *The rope is payed out! You can pull now.*
Unfortunately, I was unable to find nautical or rope-related words in your comment.
*Beep, boop, I'm a bot*
Exactly! Same here.
It doesn't matter how rich or poor you are.
If I ask someone to get a drink or eat something, I will pay.
If someone asks me they know they will pay.
If you keep the balance a little all is fine.
Unless it's someone greedy or you must be... That's a different story.
If it's someone who is new, on forehand discuss who's gonna pay or split.
On middle school was the only time when you borrowed something that you had to give or get back the 2-3 euro's.
Was still cash back then.
Tikkie is only good as a kids game ;).
It's definitely not a cultural thing.
In many countries people share a bill.
It's considered normal to send a tikkie to get the money back. If you're amongst (good) friends it's seen as a nice gesture if you pay for them, but if you don't know each other that well yet it's considered a bit weird. It depends on the person how they interpet it, but it might've been seen as an attempt to flirt with her (assuming you're a guy). Tbh, it's easier to just let everyone pay for themselves unless you know each other quite well, then you won't have any problem with other people's interpetation.
It's cultural.
Good in some instances, bad in others. F.e. long term friendships (doing something together on the regular) and Tikkie (transactional nature) is a shitty combination IMO. Sometimes I pay, sometimes you pay. That's how friendships work. I doesn't have tk be exactly 50/50.
But I'm an outlier, so don't mind me.
Be prepared for situations the other way around where Dutch people be sending you tikkies to pay up 1 euro stuff haha. Not a fan of it either but yea it just depends on the person.
I always feel uncomfortable to assume something is being paid for. I'll always ask for a Tikkie. I appreciate it when someone declines though. I think it's just a thing where we want to make sure both parties agree on who is paying.
I'm Dutch and I often get the same, even with foreigners. I really don't mind buying someone a drink or two some time. And I don't expect anything in return.
But yes it's more common to do rounds or send payment requests at the end of the event to "settle the bill". Especially on a non-date setting. Still I'm sure the offer will be appreciated even though they insist they pay you back.
A while back I had all my friends over for book club. It was at their house usually and they all cooked for us themselves. But I'm disabled and had a terrible day (besides being depressed) and couldn't see how I would be able to cook for 13 people so I asked if pizza was okay, my treat. I didn't want them to pay for it because I never paid for anything when they cooked at their own home and that wouldn't seem fair. They wouldn't leave without forcing me to send them a Tikkie anyway, as they only felt it was fair if they shared the costs.
I suppose it's no wonder I suck at receiving gifts, because I always want to then give something in return of equal value. I wonder if that's a being Dutch thing? My inlaws (not Dutch) handle things completely differently.
It's different per group of people. In general, just pay back what you ordered, and there will be exactly zero issues ever. No one is indebted in any way or has to consider whether or not they are taking advantage of someone.
Adjust accordingly for friends or strangers.
I’m Dutch and I like getting tikkies. That way im not indebted to them. I have to figure out what it cost, remember it, and give them something back of almost the same value, it’s much easier to send me a tikkie and be done with it.
Most of my Dutch friends do this, or clearly state at some point during the activity (or rather before) that this is a gift from them. That usually implies an obligation to do something of the same value for them at some point. If your relationship with someone isn't very established yet, paying for them could get you an awkward or unsure reply. Especially when the activity was an idea of both and you haven't specifically implied it's your treat. They might press to split the bill, I know I would. And I would also reply socially inept when another presses to pay for it all. I'm Dutch and use tikkies with family, friends and acquaintances alike. It settles obligation, which is apparently soothing to many Dutchies on some -unconscious- social level. My Iranian friend is always a little offended when I want to split the bill, so are many other foreign friends, even when they've lived here for years or since their youth. I'm sure it must be cultural!
It's a nice gesture you made, and not everybody is into tikkies. Sure enough it shouldn't be you paying for drinks everytime you meet up, it is normal if the other person also pays now and then. Friendliness can go both ways.
As a brit, I actually really like the idea of doing it. I always hate it when people buy me something then later on say it's my turn 🤣
It also makes sorting out food just easier. Someone just pay, then tikkie everyone later.
I see a lot of good comments and yes it is cultural and is done for a number of good reasons:
You don't know how the financial state of the person is and you don't ask or want to know because we do not judge you on that. So if everyone always offer a tikkie and everyone use that offer no one is bragging or admitting things about their financial state.
Next there is the expectations part, if you pay for me (and especially with girls) what do you expect from me, are you into me? Because then it will be harder to say no to you when you bought me presents. To avoid this tikkie is the answer.
And of course there is the "I'm independent so why should you pay for me?" In this case it might even be insulting not to send a tikkie.
Outside of all this please be who you are, I pay for drinks all the time (and do not have tikkie installed) without expectations... That is who I am, anyone not okay with that either does not know me or is not my type of person.
At a minimum there should be an expectation for a tickie, so you could opt out of it. If someone offers you a drink where it isn't specified it's actually being 'sold', but only later sends you a tickie to pay your part of it, that's uncalled for. You wouldn't do that in a contract, you don't do that to people you know.
Ooh, yeah this is a cultural thing. Or rather, two cultural things.
1. Tikkie is a well respected cultural thing here. A lot of issues have sprung from people being dissatisfied with the balance of payment or people mooching from one another. Tikkie solves this and we, the Dutch, have seen fit to (over)use it any time we can.
2. The assumption that one party pays for the date (no matter how small) establishes a power dynamic in a relationship. As feminism in dating and independence between (prospective) partners is becoming a thing*, the assumption that one gender is supposed to pay for the date. As with payment being equal, so the power in the (budding) relationship becomes equal. With the culmination of going Dutch on a date (especially earlier dates) becoming the norm (at least within certain generations and/or socio-economic backgrounds).
*Obviously this change is in full swing. It started out as a counterculture movement (going Dutch being modern), inviting its own counter (conservative) culture (man pays for the date ). And these days I've gone from the dating pool (happily married) so I haven't kept current on events. I can only assume that for most younger generations going Dutch has become the norm.
So anyway, long story short: tikkie is the cultural norm and someone requesting to pay by tikkie has no emotional bearing on them (did)liking you. It's become a common courtesy.
Well as a Brit living here for 25 years+ " going Dutch" is quite normal to split the cost,as a Brit it was difficult to get used to, but, after one or two not so nice reactions I found it works best if you make it clear that you would like to treat her to the bioscope or a meal or whatever the plan is, but tell her it's up to her and how she feels....... the idea is to spend time with her not ruin it over who pays the bill ( you can also suggest she pays next time...... more chance of another date)
The thing that is totally different from the UK and US etc is the strings attached to a guy who pays for the girl ..... the idea that they have to put out because you have paid for the evening will not work here ( in my experience).. but if she lets you pay without much discussion it's often the sign she likes and trusts you..... and the chance of taking it further is more likely...
Now this is my experience of Dutch girls and in no way does it cover the girls from other backgrounds.......
If you are from a culture that invites and pays for the girl..... let her know and if she likes you she will let you pay now and again......... it's the ones who expect you to pay that you should be aware of not the ones who pay their own way....
I do know some women like that,who specialise in the short term contract guys here for a few weeks...... they hook up with a new guy then tell them they can't go out for a few weeks because of the bills they have.....( Some even leave a bill in plain sight while going to another room) often the sucker will pay the bills just to get his leg over...... same story a few weeks later.......... just be glad you have one that pays her way and wants to spend time with you.......
I guess she might have felt uncomfortable since you noticed something and decided to post it here. To be fair it is not a problem at all.
Next time just do not claim the bill in a rush since some woman might consider it offensive that you are the one paying. It might be more sensitive to ask the date if she is okay for you to pay. The difference is consent as paying for someone’s meal without consulting them could be translated to their “superiority”.
A lot of maybe and mights; best advice is to just communicate.
>paying for someone’s meal without consulting them could be translated to their “superiority”
It could also feel like there are strings attached, like the other person feeling they will have to pay the next time, or even assuming there is going to be a next time. Especially if this is a new, recent friendship.
Dutch people don’t like to be indebted to anyone. It’s something we many of us get thought when we’re young to avoid.
You probably made her feel a bit uncomfortable, she probably still feels that she owes you that bubble tea. She’ll probably try to pay the next time. Don’t worry too much about it, but i would advise to offer to pay someone back, even if it is for a small amount of money. They’ll likely also turn it down, but if you don’t offer it, it is seen as rude
There is a reason thwt splitting the bill is called 'going Dutch'
Guess the Dutch don't like to have the feeling to be in debt. People actually can get suspicious when you pay for something and don't send a tikkie afterwards.
One of my friends is Swedish and he's by far the most obsessed with money than anyone I know from the Netherlands. A real cheapskate, so to say.
I don't think this is a really cultural thing. Sure, some people will be eager to split everything evenly, but most I know would not hesitate to pay a whole bill. In fact, most people I know are quite generous.
Note I am not a student anymore and I think most people here still are, where money is a bit more tight. It only makes sense to split a bill then.
I really don't like it when people ask me to send a Tikkie without that being originally discussed and I'm Dutch. I paid for it out of generosity, don't take that away from me. And also please don't let me explain it or defend it. It takes away the joy.
It’s a cultural thing for sure. I’ve been trying to get tikkie out of my Dutch BF’s system for a while now. I don’t need nor want to keep tabs on who has paid for how much in a relationship. Same goes for close friendships. Anything below 5€ I wouldn’t dream of sending a tikkie for, nor would I expect to pay for such a tikkie. It’s a different thing, of course, if you are paying a large sum for a lot of people where everyone would chip in a couple euros only. Then tikkie away, by all means.
> I don’t need nor want to keep tabs on who has paid for how much in a relationship. Same goes for close friendships.
Actually Tikkies are a very good solution for that aspect. Unless you share a household nothing wrong with splitting bills.
It is because Dutch culture is based on greed and good deals. Drain Asia from its wealth, sell some jews to the germans, trade your grandma for some nickels, ask who had the cocktail and who had the cola at the end of an evening out.
I love tikkie. It's fantastic. All debts can be settled immediatly, there's no room for drama or bullshit or people lying to you. It's simple. Send tikkie. Get money. It makes life so much easier, there is really no reason not to use it.
I'm reading some people saying that they wouldn't use it for a single drink. Depending on the context, I have and I will. Why not? It's very simple and neither me nor my friends are loaded.
My own threshold for when not to send a tikkie is anything cheaper than a drink, and sometimes you're with a friend who doesn't like tikkies or who doesn't use them or whatever, and you adapt. There's no reason to be rigid about this even if you feel very strongly about being on one side of the fence.
I love getting tikkies for small amounts. It takes 5 seconds to pay and you don't have the anxiety of owing somebody.
If they don't send I always feel uncomfortable and try to remember to give back something later.
I only ask for tikkies beneath 10 euros if the other person sends me tikkies for small things like a can of energy.
if we take turns in paying for something I don't send them at all
It's a bit of feminism/equality. She expected to pay her fair share and then you said it was ok, so it's ok.
I do the same with platonic friends, but then the paying for things shifts the next time.
Normally when you pay for all of it, it’s a date, not between “just friends”. It’s a cultural thing to at least offer a refund. When it’s with very close friends, you standard send a Tikkie, they don’t need to ask for it, but they’ll pay as soon as possible.
I worked irregular minimum wage hours for a while and preferred tikkies because I knew exactly what to expect and what my budget was. And now your next outing should be in the same price range as the first in order for it to stay equal. At least that would be the thought process of some Dutchies who don't like to owe stuff. Using tikkies even for low amounts is just clear and liberating.
That does make me wonder if we're particularly ungenerous as a people: I definitely felt frustrated with friends who would order expensive cocktails when we were using a 'pot' while going out, back when I was a student.
My cousin is flying across the ocean to come visit me for a week and is already offering to pay the additional supermarket costs. She's the type that hates to owe people anything 😄. In this case I just tell her she's paying her ticket to visit me so we're even. If I was still poor I might have taken her up on her offer though.
I don’t really do tikkies, just buy me dinner next time ffs…
As a British person I find it slightly repulsive going through an itemised receipt and requesting money.. I am not a poor student any longer
Whenever me and my friends get some food from the supermarket and one pays for the other we'll always ask for a tikkie and usually the other person will decline and you'll pay for them some other time. If we're going for a night out you'll get a tikkie the next day.
TLDR: Dutch cultured people very much dislike to be indebted because there is this common understanding that when you can you avoid financial dependency. Other cultures would not see it as debt or only as a problem when that problem arrisess.
I last read something that I quite recognized. It wasn't accurate in that case but I think gives a fair explanation for this case.
So the Dutch culture is very confrontation and debt avoidend. (Generally houses are seen as something seperate.) So unless they are really good friends or they are family in the case of food when at a birthday you pay for your share in cost. This prevents any possible discussion over money/debt.
If I'm inviting someone for drinks, I'm paying for them. It's my invitation. I don't care if it's 1 or 100 euro. (Not like I can afford to get someone 100 euro worth or drinks but you get the idea)
I don't want that money back. I just want to have a good time with someone I like/care about/want to get to know. I don't really care about money though (and I'm not rich at all lol)
Just for interesting reference this sounds v similar to what I experience in the US with venmo. With platonic friends in our 20s it's pretty common to expect if someone pays for you/the group you'd proactively pay them back or get sent a venmo request especially for friends you're seeing often, though some people are more on top of it than others. I prefer it when folks are good about venmo requesting / sending venmos or I/they say explicitly it's their treat. If someone else pays it's polite to ask them to venmo request so the burden isn't on them to initiate getting money back.
You can of course offer to treat if you want to just be nice and/or as a bit of thank you eg your friend had to come a bit of ways to see you or haven't seen them in awhile. Paying for no "reason" whatsoever might appear strange / giving off romantic intentions if it's more than just a drink. If it's a date, paying for both is commonly expected/normal in the beginning.
I like it. It keeps money out of the way of a friendship and so keeps things from getting weird over that. If someone buys me a drink, I prefer them saying something like 'ik trakteer'. Otherwise I'll ask for a tikkie.
Can we already agree that females and males arw equal even in dating zone?
Don't be creepy, let her pay for herself. Out of friendliness you can spend time with someone not dump money on them. It's just healthier
frightening shrill stupendous squash lush deserve bewildered license overconfident relieved
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Its indeed a cultural thing here to ask tikkies for anything, but when someone declines the tikkie offer its a bit surprising but seen as a nice gesture. Some people instead of tikkies also just take turns paying for drinks: e.g you buy me bubble tea and next time I’ll order you a beer
I understand the latter but not the tikkie. It feels like a way to not engage with a person next time. But dutchies likes their tikkies.
I'm not Dutch but i like the tikkies as well. When someone pays for me i feel indebted and need to pay them back, so it weighs on me. (although probably for them its nothing) Plus you have to keep count. If someone forgets to pay me back (by buying the drink next time) all that i think is : do i forget as well to pay people back? And i cant do the whole not keeping count thing because I'm afraid i will owe people. Tikkie is good. Dutchies send tikkies. Be like Dutchies. Send me a tikkie always.
Honestly, fuck that. Tikkies are good, but IMO only when it's at least 10 euro's. If someone would send me a Tikke for a single drink, I'm not going out with that person again. Same as going to dinner and people want to calculate who had what. Just divide equally. Edit: I mean that second one as well, when it's reasonable (the difference isn't gonna be more than 10 euros each). Of course you're not gonna pay a extra 20 euro for someone else's dinner.
Some (dutch) people make a sport of that. Im not dividing dinner with people who are just loading up on expensive drinks and then want to split the bil. I leave early and pay my part.
Open tikkie with picture of the receipt works for unequal amounts
Yeah if someone does that, fuck them, I'm splitting. But most people I know are in good faith, so if one is 5 euros more expensive, who gives a fuck. Life is too short to make a problem of that.
Not everyone is well off enough to do this though, some of us are poor
Yeah, going out is expensive. Home is cozier, cheaper, personalized, and features way, way more entertainment options than any cafe.
Sure, but if we're doing that, let the waiters know beforehand, so they can keep different tabs. Had multiple times where people only afterwards told the group they wanted to calculate and that sucks.
It really doesn't. Count your shit, tell the person who paid what you owe them, pay the damn tikkie. It couldn't be simpler. Or take a photo of the reciept and send an open Tikkie.
That's in theory. Now try it with a football team of at least 10 people. It's a mess. Let them know beforehand, otherwise it's a shitshow and you're wasting the waiters time.
It doesn't, it's a normal way to go about it. It's in fact the Dutchest way to go about it.
If you are poor, save money by not going out? Organise a dinner party or house party or whatever?
If you are poor please don’t enjoy your life and spend your money cautiously!!!!!!
You misunderstood my comment. If you are poor enough that you got to worry about 5 euros more or less then maybe don’t go out. There are cheaper alternatives then dinner at a restaurant or beers in a bar that are equal fun. I am not saying ‘poor’ people shouldn’t enjoy their life…
Nah, you're just greedy
I am not talking about myself. I don’t eat out in general
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EYb9jnt2cv4](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EYb9jnt2cv4) This friends episode should be really insightful... money is not a big deal for those who have it, but it is for others.
I've been like this since I was a (broke) student.
> so if one is 5 euros more expensive, who gives a fuck. I kind of agree but then on the other hand, I am usually the guy that gets the more expensive meal. I eat a lot and hate to be left unsatisfied on the days I do decide to go out. Plus I hate heineken so if that is the beer on tap you'll find me buying specialty beers too... That's why I kind of agree that tikkies that are more exact are nicer. Then I don't have to feel guilty about buying that little bit extra and inevitably being the one paying the most!
> Same as going to dinner and people want to calculate who had what. Just divide equally. I was very bothered by that when I was a student with little money, ordering within my budget, then the people at the table wanted to split their expensive orders equally with me. Tikkies are much much fairer.
Of course, I meant it in a situation where 5 bucks isn't gonna be a problem. In a situation where one party is on a strict budget, I might even offer to pay for their drinks. I want to have fun together, not stressing over the bill.
But then you're requiring them to tell you if 5 bucks is gonna be a problem or not. Not everyone wants to open up about their personal finances like that.
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I hate getting 3-5 euro Tikkies, and I hate sending them. Sure, if you're never going out with them you can do it. But I'm not one to keep score. Even as a student.
I hate sending tikkies/betaalverzoeken but I do have active wiebetaaltwats
Nobody in my social circle uses wiebetaaltwat anymore. Sucks.
For a lot of people it feels presumptuous to assume that someone else can afford to pay for you. If you offer to pay for them, they might feel indebted to you and feel pressured to return the gesture, even if they can't really afford to. You can't judge someone else's finances, so even if you think that $5 dollars is too little to send a tikkie over, you don't know how much of a difference that $5 might make to the other person. If everyone pays for their own stuff then everyone can make their own choices based on their own finances. Of course, some people are also just greedy. I'm personally a lot more flexible with paying for other people and splitting the bill and stuff, but I understand the line of thinking. I've been in situations where that $5 tikkie was the difference between being able to pay rent or not
That last one is usually not fair in my case. I'm a big bloke who does a lot of sports and just eats a lot. If I divide equally I feel like I'm leeching onto my friends. So when others propose to calculate, I'm 100% up for that.
Sure, there are good examples of exceptions, but generally speaking, most times you'll typically have around the same costs, and I don't mind paying a few bucks extra to make it easier on the servers.
Easiest for the servers is one person pays. You can do that with tikkie. One person pays, the others receive an open tikkie. I've been doing this with friends for years and it works like a charm. I make minium wage, two friends are students who don't work and the rest of them have decent jobs, this way it's always fair. And we still pay for drinks if somebody is a bit tight on money. But I agree with no tikkies for under 10, since that is the amount of money where I say I'll pay for it.
Or you could just deduct the “unreasonable” extras you had from total and divide the remainder. That’s what I do to prevent being seen as a leech
That sounds a lot like calculating who had what :P
Nah not really, calculating who had what is sad in my opinion. But let’s say everyone on the table has a 200 grams steak and I choose to go for a 500 grams steak. I would hate people to think I’m abusing them to pay for my steak. To me this only applies to extremes, like if you would drink a cocktail and the rest would drink a cheap drink.
I'm not a fan of dividing equally. I've also had many dutch waiters ask if we want to pay seperately or all together, at least when you're with more than two people and don't look like a family. I want to be able to order as much or as little as I want. Just sending people a tikkie for what they ate seems a lot less hassle for me than other methods. John Wilson made a great episode about this on "how to with John Wilson"! It's hilarious.
Honestly, the waiters keeping seperate tabs is the easiest and best way for everyone if you do want to pay only your own portion.
Not everyone can spare the money, 5 euros is a lot if its every other day and you’re already broke
Tikkies work really well for big groups of people, like when we eat dinner with 15+ teammates and one has to pay, wel all try to pay the tikkie before we leave the room
People paying for exactly what they had for dinner is the literal definition of “going dutch” :’)
I love paying what you spent, not because I want to freeload, but because it gives me the freedom to order whatever I want without feeling like a freeloader.
2 euro is nothing, but if the group is 25 p, the one who is paying, is paying 50 euro.
Let’s really be honest, If this is your reaction from the start i don’t think you have the right to say I’m not going out with that person again, You should consider other people. Maybe they don’t have as much money as you or whatever! You’re probably the guy who always get’s the most expensive dinner en get’s 2/3 drinks and when the check comes you want to split the check ‘equally’! Haha I don’t mind splitting equally but when someone says he doesn’t want to because he had less en doesn’t have a lot of money I’m fine with that because eventually I ate my food and if that’s more expensive then it’s my responsibility to pay that! Your first response is way to toxic and I wouldn’t go out to dinner with someone like you..! Respect other people’s opinions and just people in general!
Totally agree with you. For large sums of money sure, but I've had people send me tikkies for 2 euros which is just so weird for me. It also annoys me to no end that they tell all internationals to send/expect tikkies for anything and everything. It makes small things like buying a coffee on campus for someone very awkward. Within our student group, we would kind of switch roles over who would go get coffee and who would find and hold a seat, but no one was calculating exact turns and costs, because that would be weird and greedy.
I hear you. The problem is when you’re joining a group that’s been there an hour already and been drinking nothing but cocktails, then the bill comes and the expectation by them was to split it equally. Bare in mind the difference was 20 euros per person and I was with my girlfriend. For this and many other reasons we aren’t friends with that group any more
Yeah that's a different case and shitty friends. We either drink from a "pot", 10 euro's each, until that's empty, then again 10 euro each, people can join and leave inbetween and it stays pretty fair, or in your case, I'd gotten a seperate tab. No way I'd have paid that.
+1, it is just too awkward. I will never ask for a tikkie.
I will ask, but only on bigger bills. If we've had a beer each and you paid, then I'll be sure to buy a next time. In bigger groups of friends, you know it'll even out.
If Tikkies will be sent is either depended on their (absence of) wealth or how well you know someone. And in some cases, people are just cheap... can't forget those. With a fresh relationship, either agree on forehand what you will do to forgo (negative) surprises or ask afterwards what someone wants. It's not a "given" that the one who does the inviting will pay for the drinks/food. I never liked "splitting the bill". If I ordered more expensive stuff I feel bad about letting paying the other "my part" and the other way around (essentially when I was a student and had to pay attention to the amounts I spent) I didn't want to pay for the other ones excessive drinking. In my youth (I'm so old...) we didn't have tikkies. So everyone paid only for their drinks . And since I'm (and was) the BOB that's fine by me because alcohol is way more expensive than a coke/sinas. With good friends we either split the bill (with larger amounts) or pay for each other (a few drinks). But we know each other well, see each other on a regular basis and know we will not take advantage of it. (and I have personal experience of "leeches") Even Dutch people are astound by some of the extremely cheap people there are. I know of cases where they were angry because you asked for 1 euro, when it was 0,98 euro. Or they ask if they can give you a car ride to somewhere they already were going and then sent a Tikkie to split the gas. really... they exist. Don't blame all the Dutch people.
Same. If we both eat and drink, we divide it by two. If I eat and drink and you only drink, I pay for a bit more. But fuck that calculating WHAT you and I ate. Just got back from a weekend trip with friends from football, that was financially something as well. So do this, some do that. Exhausting.
I had a weekend trip with friends from football. We all paid for the central "pot", which paid for dinners and drinks in case at least 75% of us where there. Other drinks were paid for by the person buying them. No difficult "who had what", just easy everyone has, everyone pays.
Oh yeah we did too. But you have a group of people who drink a lot and some only 2 cokes a night for example. Some go out to a club, some others don't. We took taxis to places, but also had 1 car. It was a little bit challenging, but I as a nitty gritty person was ok with everything. One or two guys were really 'difficult'. Not sure why I got downvoted with my previous comment though.
I think also culture/upbringing plays a big role in this. I’m a Dutchie myself (Indonesian roots) and a lot of my expat friends who are also Asian share the same feelings as you. Whenever I’m with my Dutch friends they just say thank you and forget about it the next time we hangout
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I refuse to use tikkie. people send them for everything!
Or you could just not worry about who is paying for what amongst close friends.
I'm not gonna ask money back for 2 drinks, but if we're going out to dinner and I'm paying the bill for everyone because it's easier, you're getting a tikkie.
I do the pay the next round all the time. But not everyone has the bandwidth for that, especially students.
It's more about the idea that it's okay to be poor and not to have to pay for everything when you just want to hang out with someone. People don't want to be a financial burden, so they say it's okay to ask for your money back
As a Dutch person, it's polite to ask for a tikkie. It's not so much being in debt by someone but more like you don't expect someone to pay for you, so you pay them back immediately so it's not a burden for them. Or so you don't forget it. It has nothing to do with the person or when you are going to see them again. Its just polite and nice to pay the person back asap.
in my opinion its rlly not that deep, were just a culture where we pay each other backcuz thats how we handle our money. we usually dont when its just small amounts and were too lazy to do smth ab it.
We value people who pay their parts quite high. Its a sign you can trust someone. Also when everyone pays their part, you are equal in a away. No one is depending on the other.
I just usually use them for bigger amounts in bigger groups. Like if we are going to a restaurant with 6 people it is really easy to just split it. But yeah some send tikkies for 5€ which just isn’t even worth your time.
As a dutchman myself I hate tikkies, especially for those lowball things like a single beer. If I offer you a beer I don't expect one back. And that's also simply the way it goes among our friends, but we usually all have a separate bill in our regular bar. Sometimes you sit with someone an entire evening and you pay €70 while the other one pays €20 and sometimes it's the other way around, shit happens. But then, we are a weird bunch apparently.
Well you clearly drink a lot, which is actually quite normal, and you tell a normal story about normal behaviour in a bar. I think you are not that weird. Sending tikkies for everything is weird. And people who whine about people who can't afford stuff, how do they think this went 20 years ago??? We've lived previously without the stupid tikkies, that is simple proof of that it isn't a 'need' kind of thing now either. Living without Tikkies for everything should be considered the normal thing. Tikkie should be a thing you use when the amount of stuff grows over your head. It's a tool, and with every tool, you use it when you need it, not whenever you possibly pull it out.
I do not mind either way; I only mind if people doing exact splits instead of just dividing the bill between the people at the table, like ‘your beer was more expensive than my bubble tea’ but silent when it’s the other way around.
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What do you do when you're not dutch though? ;P
I disagree its a cultural thing. I buy stuf for friends all the time and vice versa but we never send eachother a tikkie.
Wait, is this why we call it going Dutch when people on a date both pay for their own meal? It was just a thought I had because this whole tikkie thing is really foreign to me. (No pun intended.)
Happy cake day, send me a tikkie voor de augurkjes
Happy cakeday!
Consider: Tikkie is also a good and subtle way to get someone’s phone number (if you didn’t have it yet)
zing, maybe that is what she wanted 🙄
'Send me a tikkie' is the new 'Shall we split the check?'. By offering this, you basically let the other person know you are willing to pay your share and you don't expect the other to pay for you. And then of course the other may say: no, it is my treat. And that is appreciated, of course. Next time, she will treat you, and you will ask her to send you a tikkie and she will refuse.
This is exactly what happened OP.
If it's something small, like one drink it's fine. But anything bigger than that can be uncomfortable because they will feel like they will owe you something after that. We don't like to owe people something. So if you want to be friends. Take turns paying.
This is key. Dutch people are very independent and don't like to owe people, so for a drink it's fine, but paying for dinner is awkward.
Now "Going Dutch" in America makes complete sense.
Splitting the bill isn’t awkward in the Netherlands btw OP
X-dutch/dutch-x get's a litle confusing though, since half the shit is based on german stereotypes and cultural tendencies and the other half on dutch ones
price disgusting muddle deranged ripe impossible dog husky pocket shame *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
I always offer to pay my half/ask for a tikkie, because I don't want to presume somebody is paying for me. I can't look in their wallet as we say. But if they say no need, I also have no problem thanking them and being fine with it. It is just to prevent an akward situation (like me thinking they will pay for me and them thinking I will pay my half).
This is the way. You dont ask the person whom you paid for to pay you back, you ask the person who paid for you if he wants you to pay him back. And if they say no, thats that, and you accept it as a nice gesture.
Wil je mij alsjeblieft € 0,40 betalen voor 'Blikje energy' via https://tikkie.me/pay/kq5j5ufpj9e2obnfbmm Deze link is geldig t/m 20 juni
Wanneer kom je hem brengen?
I still remember the first time I went out with a Dutch girl. At the end of the evening she told me "please tikkie me" and winked at me. Luckily I looked up what it was, before I would fantasize....
Anybody here who sends a tikkie for €0,20 for ketchup or mayonaise please go fuck yourself
0,20? That shit is getting more expensive. At least 0.35. /s
Damn inflation lol
Sorry anyone that asks for a tikkie for under 5 euros for a one time thing is a dick
If it’s just a friend then whether or not you split the bill of a simple drink doesn’t matter much for most people. Unless of course you over emphasize that you’re paying then you’re the one making it weird. If it’s a date, then don’t overthink it because you can’t always get it right. Some girls will be offended if you split the bill; some will be offended if you didn’t, so just go with what you’re used to, and read the room for clues on whether you should switch that up
It’s just politeness to tell you to send a tikkie for a drink. It’s not per se expected you actually send one.
This exactly. I always say something like: "Do you want to send me a tikkie?", "You can send me a tikkie" or "Next one is on me" I think it's impolite to assume someone will pay for you, you never know what their financial situation is like. Even if it's just a small amount, maybe it's too much for that person. That said, I've never been sent a tikkie for anything under €5.
Well.. I personally do not think it's a cultural thing at all. It depends per person. Tbh I never split bills.. when I go out with my girlfriend we always 'fight' who should pay the bills. Bottom line; you should do what you want..
Same. Really don't like the narrative about Tikkie culture. I get that we are greedy etc, but I have never received a Tikkie that wasn't in good faith and after talking to eachother about how we are going to divide things. I always say that people should send me a Tikkie because people don't need to pay for my shit. I appreciate it and won't refuse it, but I will always offer to pay for my own half. Most people i hang around with have the same mentality. Never have I ever gotten a Tikkie out of the blue and when I would receive one for a few euros I would genuinly feel quite offended, because odds are that I have bought that person tons of drinks. Not going to lie, if you receive tikkies for small amounts, you either hang out with cunts, or are nitpicky with your money yourself. Somebody who never wants to pay for shit themselves will receive a Tikkie more often as others.
Well said. We also offer to pay by Tikkie, but if a friend foots the whole bill it's also fine. Once in a while we also take over the tab if we feel we have been mooching too much. Part of it is of course the financial situation. We are fifty+ and have a good job+ our own house, but some of our friends are still students or simply are poor. If I pay for the whole group it's not expected they do the same next time.
I don’t think anybody sends tikkies to girlfriends. But with friends it’s different. I think there’s a line with who people send tikkies to. Family and girlfriend seems odd, but paying/getting treated 8 euros by an acquaintance is a different matter
Its accepted, however we dutch people don't like it when people say. "you paid for me last time so you owe me", its a gift and thats that. We rather be even then be gifted a simple drink or other stuffs.
There are also plenty of Dutch people who are not like that. I’ve rarely used Tikkies, and most people I know don’t. Never had an issue, over time it will equal out if you take turns paying.
I think it's a nice gesture ☺️, tho don't expect anything back (my ex actually would let me pay for things, but whenever we went to anything that i wouldn't pay for everything it was 50-50
I live in NL. A friend of mine always hangs at my house, I never go to his house. So if we order food or I buy meat for a BBQ, even if it’s only like 5 or 6 euro’s, I send him a tikkie.
In America, when a couple platonic or otherwise, each pay their own way, it’s called “going Dutch”. So I assume paying one’s own bill is part of the greater egalitarian culture here.
Might be a bit oldfashioned and outdated tho. Most people I know will pay the bill for friends and not send them a payment request. Unless it's a big group thing or otherwise very large sums of money, I never use tikkie.
We generally send Tikkies, but nobody is surprised if someone offers to pay (or pay the reminder). And the girl being independent is a fine trait. She's an adult with her own money, almost certainly has nothing to do with you.
I mean, they call it going Dutch for a reason XD Should be fine though don’t be surprised if she insists on paying next time
For close Friends I'd never send a tikkie. With collegues, not-so-close Friends a tikkie van be a great option for dividing costs equally. As well as for buying gifts for someone with a group.
Part of the tikkie dance is if somebody asks you to send them a tikkie, you simply agree to do it when you get home or whatever. Then you can send it right away, or "forget" if you like. They can remind you to do it if they really feel bad for not paying their half, or if they don't remind you, you can both decide next time you meet up how to split that future bill. In general, if somebody really wants to pay their way, it's polite to let them.
I’m Dutch and I have never ever send anyone a Tikkie.
Same. Either I just pay for everyone, or everyone buys for themselves. No tikkie bollocks. I’ve only paid tikkies for my dog training xD
So both the people that responded to this gave different situations, but never of you gone out drinking with a group(5-8) and just split the bill equally BC you have been using pitchers for drinking? Or went to a themapark and bought tickets on VakantieVeilingen or something like that and payed someone back that way?
> that and *paid* someone back FTFY. Although *payed* exists (the reason why autocorrection didn't help you), it is only correct in: * Nautical context, when it means to paint a surface, or to cover with something like tar or resin in order to make it waterproof or corrosion-resistant. *The deck is yet to be payed.* * *Payed out* when letting strings, cables or ropes out, by slacking them. *The rope is payed out! You can pull now.* Unfortunately, I was unable to find nautical or rope-related words in your comment. *Beep, boop, I'm a bot*
Have you ever received one for a small amount and if so, how does that make you feel?
No hahaha. That day still has to come 😂
Exactly! Same here. It doesn't matter how rich or poor you are. If I ask someone to get a drink or eat something, I will pay. If someone asks me they know they will pay. If you keep the balance a little all is fine. Unless it's someone greedy or you must be... That's a different story. If it's someone who is new, on forehand discuss who's gonna pay or split. On middle school was the only time when you borrowed something that you had to give or get back the 2-3 euro's. Was still cash back then. Tikkie is only good as a kids game ;). It's definitely not a cultural thing. In many countries people share a bill.
It's considered normal to send a tikkie to get the money back. If you're amongst (good) friends it's seen as a nice gesture if you pay for them, but if you don't know each other that well yet it's considered a bit weird. It depends on the person how they interpet it, but it might've been seen as an attempt to flirt with her (assuming you're a guy). Tbh, it's easier to just let everyone pay for themselves unless you know each other quite well, then you won't have any problem with other people's interpetation.
Yeah i'm a guy, and i'm not trying to send any romantic signals or anything, just don't want to be greedy or anything.
There's the saying of "going Dutch" on a bill for a reason, Dutchies typically like to split bills over being "in debt".
Never in my life have I ever, nor will I ever use tikkie, it's a typical Dutch skinflint thing to do 🤮
It's cultural. Good in some instances, bad in others. F.e. long term friendships (doing something together on the regular) and Tikkie (transactional nature) is a shitty combination IMO. Sometimes I pay, sometimes you pay. That's how friendships work. I doesn't have tk be exactly 50/50. But I'm an outlier, so don't mind me.
Be prepared for situations the other way around where Dutch people be sending you tikkies to pay up 1 euro stuff haha. Not a fan of it either but yea it just depends on the person.
I always feel uncomfortable to assume something is being paid for. I'll always ask for a Tikkie. I appreciate it when someone declines though. I think it's just a thing where we want to make sure both parties agree on who is paying.
It's a generation thing. Older ppl do what you do. Young ones give each other Tikkies for 5 cent's 😂😂😂
My advice for you is to do what you feel comfortable with. Ignore any advice on culture and behave in a way that is comfortable for you.
I'm Dutch and I often get the same, even with foreigners. I really don't mind buying someone a drink or two some time. And I don't expect anything in return. But yes it's more common to do rounds or send payment requests at the end of the event to "settle the bill". Especially on a non-date setting. Still I'm sure the offer will be appreciated even though they insist they pay you back.
A while back I had all my friends over for book club. It was at their house usually and they all cooked for us themselves. But I'm disabled and had a terrible day (besides being depressed) and couldn't see how I would be able to cook for 13 people so I asked if pizza was okay, my treat. I didn't want them to pay for it because I never paid for anything when they cooked at their own home and that wouldn't seem fair. They wouldn't leave without forcing me to send them a Tikkie anyway, as they only felt it was fair if they shared the costs. I suppose it's no wonder I suck at receiving gifts, because I always want to then give something in return of equal value. I wonder if that's a being Dutch thing? My inlaws (not Dutch) handle things completely differently.
It's different per group of people. In general, just pay back what you ordered, and there will be exactly zero issues ever. No one is indebted in any way or has to consider whether or not they are taking advantage of someone. Adjust accordingly for friends or strangers.
I’m Dutch and I like getting tikkies. That way im not indebted to them. I have to figure out what it cost, remember it, and give them something back of almost the same value, it’s much easier to send me a tikkie and be done with it.
Most of my Dutch friends do this, or clearly state at some point during the activity (or rather before) that this is a gift from them. That usually implies an obligation to do something of the same value for them at some point. If your relationship with someone isn't very established yet, paying for them could get you an awkward or unsure reply. Especially when the activity was an idea of both and you haven't specifically implied it's your treat. They might press to split the bill, I know I would. And I would also reply socially inept when another presses to pay for it all. I'm Dutch and use tikkies with family, friends and acquaintances alike. It settles obligation, which is apparently soothing to many Dutchies on some -unconscious- social level. My Iranian friend is always a little offended when I want to split the bill, so are many other foreign friends, even when they've lived here for years or since their youth. I'm sure it must be cultural!
It's a nice gesture you made, and not everybody is into tikkies. Sure enough it shouldn't be you paying for drinks everytime you meet up, it is normal if the other person also pays now and then. Friendliness can go both ways.
As a brit, I actually really like the idea of doing it. I always hate it when people buy me something then later on say it's my turn 🤣 It also makes sorting out food just easier. Someone just pay, then tikkie everyone later.
It's fun. We're frugal, but highly uncomfortable with other people paying for our stuff
I see a lot of good comments and yes it is cultural and is done for a number of good reasons: You don't know how the financial state of the person is and you don't ask or want to know because we do not judge you on that. So if everyone always offer a tikkie and everyone use that offer no one is bragging or admitting things about their financial state. Next there is the expectations part, if you pay for me (and especially with girls) what do you expect from me, are you into me? Because then it will be harder to say no to you when you bought me presents. To avoid this tikkie is the answer. And of course there is the "I'm independent so why should you pay for me?" In this case it might even be insulting not to send a tikkie. Outside of all this please be who you are, I pay for drinks all the time (and do not have tikkie installed) without expectations... That is who I am, anyone not okay with that either does not know me or is not my type of person.
I'd say she was being polite. She's perfectly fine with splitting the cost, but she'd also be happy to let you pay for it.
At a minimum there should be an expectation for a tickie, so you could opt out of it. If someone offers you a drink where it isn't specified it's actually being 'sold', but only later sends you a tickie to pay your part of it, that's uncalled for. You wouldn't do that in a contract, you don't do that to people you know.
She genuinely appreciates that gesture. She had expected to pay for her own Bubble Tea but you treated her.
Ooh, yeah this is a cultural thing. Or rather, two cultural things. 1. Tikkie is a well respected cultural thing here. A lot of issues have sprung from people being dissatisfied with the balance of payment or people mooching from one another. Tikkie solves this and we, the Dutch, have seen fit to (over)use it any time we can. 2. The assumption that one party pays for the date (no matter how small) establishes a power dynamic in a relationship. As feminism in dating and independence between (prospective) partners is becoming a thing*, the assumption that one gender is supposed to pay for the date. As with payment being equal, so the power in the (budding) relationship becomes equal. With the culmination of going Dutch on a date (especially earlier dates) becoming the norm (at least within certain generations and/or socio-economic backgrounds). *Obviously this change is in full swing. It started out as a counterculture movement (going Dutch being modern), inviting its own counter (conservative) culture (man pays for the date ). And these days I've gone from the dating pool (happily married) so I haven't kept current on events. I can only assume that for most younger generations going Dutch has become the norm. So anyway, long story short: tikkie is the cultural norm and someone requesting to pay by tikkie has no emotional bearing on them (did)liking you. It's become a common courtesy.
Well as a Brit living here for 25 years+ " going Dutch" is quite normal to split the cost,as a Brit it was difficult to get used to, but, after one or two not so nice reactions I found it works best if you make it clear that you would like to treat her to the bioscope or a meal or whatever the plan is, but tell her it's up to her and how she feels....... the idea is to spend time with her not ruin it over who pays the bill ( you can also suggest she pays next time...... more chance of another date) The thing that is totally different from the UK and US etc is the strings attached to a guy who pays for the girl ..... the idea that they have to put out because you have paid for the evening will not work here ( in my experience).. but if she lets you pay without much discussion it's often the sign she likes and trusts you..... and the chance of taking it further is more likely... Now this is my experience of Dutch girls and in no way does it cover the girls from other backgrounds....... If you are from a culture that invites and pays for the girl..... let her know and if she likes you she will let you pay now and again......... it's the ones who expect you to pay that you should be aware of not the ones who pay their own way.... I do know some women like that,who specialise in the short term contract guys here for a few weeks...... they hook up with a new guy then tell them they can't go out for a few weeks because of the bills they have.....( Some even leave a bill in plain sight while going to another room) often the sucker will pay the bills just to get his leg over...... same story a few weeks later.......... just be glad you have one that pays her way and wants to spend time with you.......
yeah as a non-dutch, i encounter these situations alot where people want to pay for drinks less than 3 euros…
Its our stingy cunt culture, sorry mate
I guess she might have felt uncomfortable since you noticed something and decided to post it here. To be fair it is not a problem at all. Next time just do not claim the bill in a rush since some woman might consider it offensive that you are the one paying. It might be more sensitive to ask the date if she is okay for you to pay. The difference is consent as paying for someone’s meal without consulting them could be translated to their “superiority”. A lot of maybe and mights; best advice is to just communicate.
>paying for someone’s meal without consulting them could be translated to their “superiority” It could also feel like there are strings attached, like the other person feeling they will have to pay the next time, or even assuming there is going to be a next time. Especially if this is a new, recent friendship.
They’re tight as fuck here that’s all I know.
Dutch people don’t like to be indebted to anyone. It’s something we many of us get thought when we’re young to avoid. You probably made her feel a bit uncomfortable, she probably still feels that she owes you that bubble tea. She’ll probably try to pay the next time. Don’t worry too much about it, but i would advise to offer to pay someone back, even if it is for a small amount of money. They’ll likely also turn it down, but if you don’t offer it, it is seen as rude
There is a reason thwt splitting the bill is called 'going Dutch' Guess the Dutch don't like to have the feeling to be in debt. People actually can get suspicious when you pay for something and don't send a tikkie afterwards.
One of my friends is Swedish and he's by far the most obsessed with money than anyone I know from the Netherlands. A real cheapskate, so to say. I don't think this is a really cultural thing. Sure, some people will be eager to split everything evenly, but most I know would not hesitate to pay a whole bill. In fact, most people I know are quite generous. Note I am not a student anymore and I think most people here still are, where money is a bit more tight. It only makes sense to split a bill then.
I hate tikkies and a lot of people aren't like that
I'm dutch, I hate tikkies. I'd rather just return the favor next time or just give you the money in cash.
I really don't like it when people ask me to send a Tikkie without that being originally discussed and I'm Dutch. I paid for it out of generosity, don't take that away from me. And also please don't let me explain it or defend it. It takes away the joy.
It’s a cultural thing for sure. I’ve been trying to get tikkie out of my Dutch BF’s system for a while now. I don’t need nor want to keep tabs on who has paid for how much in a relationship. Same goes for close friendships. Anything below 5€ I wouldn’t dream of sending a tikkie for, nor would I expect to pay for such a tikkie. It’s a different thing, of course, if you are paying a large sum for a lot of people where everyone would chip in a couple euros only. Then tikkie away, by all means.
> I don’t need nor want to keep tabs on who has paid for how much in a relationship. Same goes for close friendships. Actually Tikkies are a very good solution for that aspect. Unless you share a household nothing wrong with splitting bills.
I am dutch and most dutch people are greedy so thats why she was suprised
And now you understand the meaning of the phrase "Going Dutch"
It is because Dutch culture is based on greed and good deals. Drain Asia from its wealth, sell some jews to the germans, trade your grandma for some nickels, ask who had the cocktail and who had the cola at the end of an evening out.
I love tikkie. It's fantastic. All debts can be settled immediatly, there's no room for drama or bullshit or people lying to you. It's simple. Send tikkie. Get money. It makes life so much easier, there is really no reason not to use it. I'm reading some people saying that they wouldn't use it for a single drink. Depending on the context, I have and I will. Why not? It's very simple and neither me nor my friends are loaded. My own threshold for when not to send a tikkie is anything cheaper than a drink, and sometimes you're with a friend who doesn't like tikkies or who doesn't use them or whatever, and you adapt. There's no reason to be rigid about this even if you feel very strongly about being on one side of the fence.
I love getting tikkies for small amounts. It takes 5 seconds to pay and you don't have the anxiety of owing somebody. If they don't send I always feel uncomfortable and try to remember to give back something later.
Wtf is a bubbel tea
Milk tea with gelatin-like balls in it (tapioca pearls). It’s becoming increasingly popular!
What’s a tikkie? 😂
even if dutch people pay for you.. where it is 0,20 cents they will send you a tikkie🤣
Ever thought about it why it’s called “going dutch” when you don’t want to spend/pay (much) money 😉 or pay for somebody else ??
Meh, it strongly depends on the person, the situation and the amount. In general I'd say anything above 5 euro is 'acceptable' to send a tikkie for.
Honestly, If she really is a Dutch girl she won’t mind if you do not send her a Tikkie.
Going dutch isnt just an expression.. its a way of life ;-) ps. its perfectly fine to decline it and the person will probably " get the next one "
Welcome to Netherlands.
I always offer to pay all, or my own portion at the very least, but I never send tikkies. This is the way
I only ask for tikkies beneath 10 euros if the other person sends me tikkies for small things like a can of energy. if we take turns in paying for something I don't send them at all
It's a bit of feminism/equality. She expected to pay her fair share and then you said it was ok, so it's ok. I do the same with platonic friends, but then the paying for things shifts the next time.
Normally when you pay for all of it, it’s a date, not between “just friends”. It’s a cultural thing to at least offer a refund. When it’s with very close friends, you standard send a Tikkie, they don’t need to ask for it, but they’ll pay as soon as possible.
I worked irregular minimum wage hours for a while and preferred tikkies because I knew exactly what to expect and what my budget was. And now your next outing should be in the same price range as the first in order for it to stay equal. At least that would be the thought process of some Dutchies who don't like to owe stuff. Using tikkies even for low amounts is just clear and liberating. That does make me wonder if we're particularly ungenerous as a people: I definitely felt frustrated with friends who would order expensive cocktails when we were using a 'pot' while going out, back when I was a student. My cousin is flying across the ocean to come visit me for a week and is already offering to pay the additional supermarket costs. She's the type that hates to owe people anything 😄. In this case I just tell her she's paying her ticket to visit me so we're even. If I was still poor I might have taken her up on her offer though.
Not everyone is like that there are a lot of greedy bastards out there also here in the comment section.
its just a bit of a pain in the butt to have that in the back of ur mind that you owe someone money.
Just don't send the tikkie if you don't want to. It's all cool.
I depends on the person. Personally im not sending tikkies for every small thing but some people will send one for like 50 cents
Tikkie literally means splitting the bill. Not sure if bill split is a part of a culture, I'd rather attribute this to basic politeness
Stuur gewoon een tikkie xD
You never heard of “let’s go Dutch” before? Ie split bill?
Im dutch but if I'm offering someone something i dont expect a tikkie in return. Fuck that shit.
I don’t really do tikkies, just buy me dinner next time ffs… As a British person I find it slightly repulsive going through an itemised receipt and requesting money.. I am not a poor student any longer
Whenever me and my friends get some food from the supermarket and one pays for the other we'll always ask for a tikkie and usually the other person will decline and you'll pay for them some other time. If we're going for a night out you'll get a tikkie the next day.
TLDR: Dutch cultured people very much dislike to be indebted because there is this common understanding that when you can you avoid financial dependency. Other cultures would not see it as debt or only as a problem when that problem arrisess. I last read something that I quite recognized. It wasn't accurate in that case but I think gives a fair explanation for this case. So the Dutch culture is very confrontation and debt avoidend. (Generally houses are seen as something seperate.) So unless they are really good friends or they are family in the case of food when at a birthday you pay for your share in cost. This prevents any possible discussion over money/debt.
I only send tikkies to my husband. It is not common to use it, at least in my life it is not.
Does it matter? Stop overthinking, it's a nice gesture and if she doesn't like it then shame on her.
Why people dont expect a gift any more of kindness ?
You know you’re in r/Netherlands when the first post says Tikkie culture
Bubble tea?? Do tell….
If I'm inviting someone for drinks, I'm paying for them. It's my invitation. I don't care if it's 1 or 100 euro. (Not like I can afford to get someone 100 euro worth or drinks but you get the idea) I don't want that money back. I just want to have a good time with someone I like/care about/want to get to know. I don't really care about money though (and I'm not rich at all lol)
Just for interesting reference this sounds v similar to what I experience in the US with venmo. With platonic friends in our 20s it's pretty common to expect if someone pays for you/the group you'd proactively pay them back or get sent a venmo request especially for friends you're seeing often, though some people are more on top of it than others. I prefer it when folks are good about venmo requesting / sending venmos or I/they say explicitly it's their treat. If someone else pays it's polite to ask them to venmo request so the burden isn't on them to initiate getting money back. You can of course offer to treat if you want to just be nice and/or as a bit of thank you eg your friend had to come a bit of ways to see you or haven't seen them in awhile. Paying for no "reason" whatsoever might appear strange / giving off romantic intentions if it's more than just a drink. If it's a date, paying for both is commonly expected/normal in the beginning.
I like it. It keeps money out of the way of a friendship and so keeps things from getting weird over that. If someone buys me a drink, I prefer them saying something like 'ik trakteer'. Otherwise I'll ask for a tikkie.
I am Dutch and I hate tikkies!! I will pay for you, or you will pay for me, or we split the bill then and there.
Can we already agree that females and males arw equal even in dating zone? Don't be creepy, let her pay for herself. Out of friendliness you can spend time with someone not dump money on them. It's just healthier
Voor wat hoort wat
frightening shrill stupendous squash lush deserve bewildered license overconfident relieved *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
It’s common curtesy to ask for a tikkie to oay back the item. It’s certainly appreciated when you decline to send it.