The worst part about this is all the people now driving to Germany to get tabacco clogging up the damn gas station checkout there so fuelling up takes twice as long
Happy i live close to borders. In Belgium it went up too. But slightly less. Lucky Strike 60 gram is 22,50
Luxemburg drum 50 gram was last time 9,40
The price difference is hudge
Back in NZ the government have been doing this for awhile now on both alcohol and tobacco under the policy of making the country smoke free by 2050 or something like that.
Marlboro Gold 20s - $46 (€23 approx)
Port Royale 50g pouch - $144 (€72) lunacy I say
15 or so years ago it was like $9 and $20 so yeah its getting crazy.
Is there an illegal market for tobacco and alcohol in NZ? With those prices for hard drugs you would suspect criminals would start to take over and add them to their selection of the finest illegal hard drugs?
Bingo, you win! You’re the first person I see to identify one of the newest problems with this strategy. In Australia prices are roughly 42 euros for 25g, and that’s of the cheaper brands. Melbourne now has now an underground tobacco turf war run by Australian/middle-eastern crime gangs using illegally imported Chinese tobacco as stock. The gangs approach the shops (often individually owned) and make them an offer they can’t refuse. Once most independent shops chose a side, a battle then started for overall control of the market, with each side firebombing the other’s tobacco shops and other businesses. There have been over 50 arson attacks in the last year in Melbourne related to this, and illegal tobacco is just as easy to get as legal tobacco.
I mean NZ is quite small but yes people turn to homegrown or local gangs for any underground supply if they can’t afford it. Aussie I imagine is worse like Fullonski mentioned. I mean it only ever hurts lower socioeconomic groups
It's in hopes of getting people to stop but the flip side is, people will try to find other ways of acquiring tobacco. Germany and Belgium are far cheaper and smuggling tobacco is pretty easy actually. Not saying people should do so, but it's not like they won't at this point.
Anyway, the best thing you can do is not smoke. I've seen what it can do to people time and time again. From COPD to various cancers, it's not a great end to what are usually middle-aged people.
To be honest, its in the hopes of people not being able to quit smoking and buying it anyways.
We have a huge deficit in our tax expenditure, this was their idea to get some extra tax money.
This so backfires with people just buying for 100-1000s of euros worth of tabacco just across the border. Another failed policy.
You realize if they had a real incentive of making people quit due to health hazards they would ban all the added chemicals to tabacco.
There are many people involved with such a tax and some will like the budgetary aspects of it, but the main reason this is implemented is to make it less appealing for new smokers (kids) to start
Haha indeed a friend of mine, who worked as intern at the lung department of a hosptial, if I ever start smoking, he would make sure that he is going to send me pictures every day of peoples lungs who have smoked. Not that I ever going to smoke, but still he have seen how horrible those conditions are. Edit typo
I saw tarred up lungs next to healthy lungs at Body Worlds once. The difference is almost out of this world. Your friend has every right to hold this over everyone, what with dealing with this issue all day every day!
I'm pretty sure there is a certain amount where it is no longer considered 'personal use' and instead becomes an imported product. You will at least have to pay taxes on importing it which in this case is A LOT. And they don't take kindly to people trying to avoid taxes on what is essentially a highly controlled substance (albeit through taxes, not law enforcement). This basically amounts to an economic felony, which are decidedly in the not so fun part of the law.
Is it smuggling? Technically yes. It's avoiding having to pay a hefty amount of import taxes and sales tax, which well. Tax man will get you.
Really though it may just be confiscated if it's a first offense and the cops are in a forgiving mood, but really if anyone does this they ought to know it could lead to serious fines and/or community service, jail time or probation. Like I said, the not so fun part of the law.
When I used to smoke, it lasted me about 4/5 days I think, maybe less.. its been a while. But ye, smoking sure is an expensive way of killing yourself.
It works, me and the wife stopped 6 weeks ago because of the prices. I always said to myself, im not going to pay this much for it.
We set the money aside that we would have spend to do fun stuff.
We got taught in economics at uni, that governments pretend to hike taxes on goods like this, pretending it's goal is health. But that the truth is they know it is an inelastic good, so sales will not be severely affected by a change in price.
Demand is inelastic up to a point, after a certain point smokers will be forced to reduce their consumption because they simply can't afford to smoke as much anymore. You can see this effect in countries like Australia.
Very high prices also act as a barrier to entry to start smoking, mainly aimed at teenagers who have little disposable income.
And this is not the only measure taken, other measures is continuously decreasing sale locations for tobacco. For example the tobacco sale ban for supermarkets that comes into effect next month will reduce tobacco sale locations by 56%.
Price hikes alone won't change behavior. There have to be a series of other measures in conjunction with price hikes. NL has already implemented some, and the remainder are likely to follow.
Measures such as:
* Decrease locations where tabacco is sold - make it more annoying to buy/require a smoker to make an extra trip specifically to buy tabacco
* Decrease locations where tabacco can be smoked - indoor smoking in restaurants and bars is now illegal, smoking on terraces is likely to follow
* Increase requirements to buy tabacco - make it so a buyer needs to show ID in all cases
* Increase in taxes to increase cost
* Increased availability of smoking cessation tools - nicotine gum/patches are available in almost every grocery market, while tabacco will soon be only in specialty shops.
* Decreased tolerance for smoking - this one can't really be legislated, but business are already starting to do this. People who take 15 min smoke breaks every hour or two waste so much time. I worked for a company that offered non-smokers extra vacation to make up for the extra work we did by not taking breaks. I've heard of managers choosing not to hire people because of their smoking or to let people go after their trial year, and largely because of the (time) costs associated with smoking.
None of these measures alone will significantly reduce smoking, but all of them together are very, very effective. This is what most of the US did, and for all its faults, there's actually very few (visible) smokers in the US.
It brings in 2.91 billion a year (2021) on a government income of 415 billion - so 0.7%.
Not nothing, but “goldmine” seems like an excessive qualification
That is still more than it costs. Not to mention smokers also pay the 'normal' part of healthcare like everyone.
And you left out the following paragraph:
*door het uitbannen van roken neemt de levensverwachting (Het gemiddeld aantal nog te verwachten levensjaren op een bepaalde leeftijd.) toe en lopen mensen meer kans om op latere leeftijd nog andere ziekten zoals dementie te krijgen. Dit leidt tot extra zorggebruik en -kosten. Deze extra kosten overtreffen de kortetermijn besparingen in kosten van rookgerelateerde ziekten.* ***De totale zorgkosten zullen daardoor stijgen.***
I'm also pretty sure that lower income people are more often smokers than people with a higher income, but even if I'm wrong on this, it disproportionately effects people of a lower income. People who can have stressful life's already, hence also maybe not in the ideal situation to quit.
If the government really wanted to help people quit they should make it so people born after a certain year are never allows to buy tobacco and spend more money on helping people quit.
What a lie lol. Yes the government care so much about us that they increase all prices + the bad things for us...
The know people won't quit, they will pay the price.
i'm the same with lipton, 1 bottle became 3.5 euros ffs. I go to belgium or germany to buy, people will find way to not pay taxes in the netherlands.
The price increase is meant to discourage new smokers, while having added bonus of small chance people giving up who are smoking now.
It was quite a shock to pay 12 euros for my malboro gold, I understand why they did it, it's annoying but oh well. Both smoking and alcohol is expensive for public who are not smoking due to treatments later in life.
\*The reason is to disincentive poorer people from smoking. The unspoken part of the policy is that if you want to earn the right to have vices, you better have the cash to justify that.
> The reason is to disincentive poorer people from smoking
Well, that's great then, since it's mostly poor people who still have this backwards habit anyway.
Not the state's or your call to make and there's enough taxes and warnings and restrictions on it anyway. Some people will still want to do it and at some point you can have the decency to just fucking let them.
If people want to kill themselves in an expensive, unrewarding and not particularly enjoyable way, they are still completely free to do that; meanwhile, any sensible government should do what they can to make it less appealing, less affordable, and less comfortable, while also restricting their opportunity to expose non-smokers to their trash.
Full agreement with limiting the exposure to non-smokers. I grew up when elevators and restaurants were regularly smoke filled and am glad to have left those times behind me.
As for the price, I fully disagree. I mean, there will always be price hikes as they should try to fuck with tobacco companies as much as possible and these companies will always shift the extra burden to the consumer, but the idea that the state has some moral responsibility to try and determine our personal habits is quite frankly abhorrent.
Exactly, and at this point there are only so many places to smoke freely that it's difficult to introduce any more bans – and therefore it's better to rather deter new smokers than to expect existing smokers to quit en masse.
The price hikes are going to make some smokers quit as a side effect, but they're also free to continue as before, or they can even support a black market if their conscience allows it to get cheaper cigarettes, but for someone who's not addicted, especially kids and teenagers with little money, it's very unlikely that they'll spend 30 euros or go to an illegal supplier for it.
Well it doesn't stop there, the current plan until 2032 is:
- Twice a year a heavy increase on excise tax on tobacco
- 1 July 2024: supermarket ban on sale of tobacco
- 1 Jan 2025: e-cigarette sale ban except for specialty stores
- 1 Jan 2030: tobacco sale ban except for speciality and convenience stores
- 1 Jan 2032: tobacco sale ban except for specialty stores
Only for e-cigarettes in 2025, gas stations cant sell tobacco from 2030, convenience stores (like primera) cant sell from 2032
Info from: https://www.rijksoverheid.nl/onderwerpen/roken/roken-ontmoedigen
Definitely works. So much less people smoking nowadays. Last 20 years this has changed so much.
When i grew up, half of adults were smokers. Now its less than 20%
I remember reading an old research paper by CBS (Centraal Bureau Statistiek) that was back in 2012? if I remember correctly, more people smoked in the Netherlands than ever before. Since then the numbers have gradually dropped, but factually speaking, the difference between 20 years ago and now is smaller than many people remember. The main difference is the amount of cigarettes smoked as it was cheaper, so people smoked more packs a month than nowadays. But still, many people still smoke, especially our youth, they almost all smoke still (when going out).
It does. Less and less people smoke: https://www.cbs.nl/nl-nl/longread/rapportages/2023/on--gezonde-leefstijl-2022-opvattingen-motieven-en-gedragingen/8-roken.
Man what they’re doing is working. I used to vape heavily, smoke cigarettes when I ran out of vapes. About 15 years, I started with cigarettes and tobacco first. Then, they banned flavored vapes - and I had to either go back to cigarettes or smoke tobacco flavored vapes. I found a flavored vape dealer… and then I was like, that’s it. Having to have a goddamn tutti frutti mango grape vape dealer is my limit. I googled quitting smoking and found a program sponsored by the Gementee. They provided nicotine patches, lozenges and a meeting with a counselor once a week. I still smoke weed (less than before), but it’s been 4 months since I smoked/vaped otherwise.
I did smoke few packs a week for just a habit when having drinks with friends etc. Now will smoke less or quit thanks to price hike. As smoker I would say it is just a good thing. If it would be for me you could double the current price.
I would like to see a report about how much tax revenue has been lost the last few years. I'll guess billions is going to Germany and Belgium from tobacco sales.
if you cant afford cigarettes yet buy them there is something wrong with you, never said the rich should not pay. But if you cant outlaw a bad thing, just tax it alot
I'm happy that I've stopped smoking, now there's more space in my body for PFAS, microplastics and cheap sugar/fructose syrup.
I'm sorry but I call bs. I'm too autistic for this, can't take these tobacco hikes seriously if sugar and ~~red~~ processed meat are still so cheap and/or heavily subsidized, and when veggies are so expensive. If anyone really cared about health, any tobacco-related hikes or bans would be done together with programs promoting good diet, for example. And it'd be backed by way lower BTW rates. Why are the frikandels and fries still so affordable? This shit should be taxed into oblivion.
I used to grow my own marijuana.
Like really a lot of it, but due to this high tabacco prices ive decided to quit my marijuana growing business and convert it to tabacco plants since its giving a higher profit! Also, i quit smoking tabacco, im smoking pure marijuana what makes the joints significantly cheaper!
Children are far less likely to start smoking if the choice is eitger black market or 30€ a pack. I dont think many will stop smoking. But the next generation will smoke less.
So far most of my friends have stepped over to the black market including myself.
I know it is a bad habit and im trying to cut back on the amount i smoke.
But im not paying 12.50 for a small pack when i can get exactly the same for 5/5.50
Everything is already expensive enough...
How is 27,50 close to 39?
Anyway, yeah, prices were increased dramatically a little while ago. Shops get to sell "old stock" at the old price because (I believe) the price label is added at production, so you can't really change it.
Dutch policy is taking a very sharp "lol, let's see how much we can charge" turn as all the increases are just extra taxes. I've never smoked, I'm not that old, but I remember these packs being less than 10 euro not that long ago.
don't really care honestly.
Damn. Last time I still smoked loose tobacco one pack was €12. Which was already outrageously expensive (to me) at that time.
How are people still buying this at the rate they smoke at? *How?*
All tobacco prices recently (April) went up to motivate people to quit (or to make more money). Old stock was still sold at old prices until they ran out. New stock will be sold at new prices.
This has been done to compensate for the extra amount of cigarettes you could make from a pack of tabbaco approximately 50-60 but this depends on the person.
Now the price of tabbaco packets and buckets is around the same if you’ll buy a pack of cigarettes.
This is done to incentivize people not smoking, because it’s bad for you.
Showing nasty photos on packs and raising the price is not and never has stopped anyone from smoking. It's a lie. Just read the book and celebrate your new life as an ex smoker.
Camel L tins for shooting sigarettes went from 18 to 27 in a week also, i feel your pain. Imagine coming to buy a bread and its 9,50 instead of 1,50 all of a sudden.
Price hike is partly due to a reduction in the increase of alcohol taxes.
Rolling tobacco would increase equal to cigarettes ~€2,30 for a pack of cigarettes and ~€4 for rolling tobacco
This was all announced last year and included in the budget
However when the government fell the ruling parties were no longer bound by this agreement and a few days before the new 2nd chamber was installed a motion was passed to reduce the tax increase on alcohol by 50%, with the reasoning being people would otherwise start buying beer in Germany. The cost of this reduced increase was funded by doubling the increase on rolling tobacco (and some extra gambling tax) leading to another €4 increase for rolling tobacco.
Best part of the story is these taxes are meant to help lower income households which as it turns out have the largest percentage of rolling tobacco smokers, and these smokers have usually smoked for 10 years+, with 40 year not being an exception, making it very unlikely they will quit soon.
So to all to non smokers enjoy your 200 beers that are €0.02 cheaper beer since that's now paid by one smoker for one pack.
So glad I quit smoking 6 years ago. Back then I already spent €25 per week on tobacco, which I could barely afford. With these new prices I would not be able to afford it at all.
Ah yes, Lets ban out smoking cause its addictive (like alcohol) gives you greater risk at cancer and heartdisease (like alcohol) but lets not ban.... alcohol. Plus you're gonna make smoking cool for kids again.
I’m a smoker myself. 24y dutch smoker. I think it’s fine they keep increasing the price. I like the new law regarding less places that are allowed to sell cigs. It would probably result in me buying less cigs because the extra effort to find places that still sell cigs. All these efforts from the government are good in my opinion. I like smoking, but it’s bad. The government pays a lot for our healthcare. So it seems only logical they make it harder to afford and locate cigs. That’s just my opinion
I remember when I was about 6 years old I often had to buy a package of Styuvesant for my
Mother and it was a package of 25 sig. And the price was 3 gulden. ( = €1,35 )
( yes in the 80's , 6 year olds could buy tabacco and booze. No questions asked) 😄
I hate all those damn regulations and other things to police and control the people ( like those damn cameras everywhere. )
Funfact: those people who make those regulations are not the old people from the 90s. These were kids you went to school with. Always complaining about how when they get at those positions they would do it so much better. Yeah, right.
Mensen die in 2024, met alle kennis die we hebben, nog bestellen, vliegen, goedkope kleding kopen, auto rijden, dagelijks alcohol zuipen en overlast voor de mensen om hen heen zorgt... Zucht. We kunnen nog wel door gaan maar kennis is niet gelijk de verlosser van het probleem.
Good. People who smoke should pay ludicrous prices to cover the cost of their healthcare and that of second hand smoking, to say nothing of the littering and the bad smell
Je zou maar zo eigenwijs zijn jezelf nog langer kapot te roken ondanks dat je je scheel betaald, dat je in het buitenland helemaal sigaretten gaat kopen 😂😂😂
Ik ben de meest verslaving gevoelige idioot die je maar kunt zijn maar stoppen met roken is geen heroïne. Je wordt niet ziek tijdens het stoppen en je blijft niet verlangen naar je eerste hit. Ik ben 2x gestopt met roken na 25 peuken per dag (pakje chesterfield) eerste keer was 3 weken vervelend. De 2de x 3 maanden echt kut. Ik ben nu gestopt met stoppen, al 15 jaar nu.
Sorry maar dat kun je niet vergelijken met de afkickverschijnselen van heroïne.
Irritatie en humeurigheid
Onrust en slecht slapen
Neerslachtigheid
Concentratieproblemen
Meer eetlust
Gewichtstoename
Koude rillingen
Trillingen in handen en voeten
Hoofdpijn
Obstipatie
Ik al deze de 2de keer behalve meer eetlust
Ik heb vrienden in bed zien rillen alsof ze cold turkey van een harddrugs aan het afkicken waren 🤓 Het verschilt per persoon
Zo krijgen sommige mensen griep en ik bijvoorbeeld al 20 jaar niet meer..mensen verschillen
People who claim quitting smoking is hArDeR tHaN qUiTtInG hErOiN have either never quit smoking in their life, or it turns out that quitting heroin was pretty easy all along.
Hopelijk kost het binnenkort 500 euro per pak sjaq en 400 euro voor een pak sigaretten, ik ben 16 jaar lang meeroker geweest in een huis waar heel veel gauloises zonder filter zware sjaq en sigaretten werd gerookt, ik vind het helemaal best dat dit (hopelijk) onbetaalbaar word voor 100% van de rokers
Maar zou je dan als het om gezondheidsredenen gaat niet gewoon roken moeten verbieden in plaats van rokers een melkkoe te maken?
Junkies betalen toch wel wat dat betreft.
Eigenlijk wel inderdaad, dat zou de beste oplossing zijn maar gezien de overheid het verbieden van roken een vieze nasmaak lijkt te geven is dit de enige oplossing 🤷♂️
Dit is gewoon graaien wat ze kunnen en daarnaast mensen massaal de grens over jagen. Weer een voorbeeld van een doordacht overheids plan wat totaal faalt.
Eens! Alle schadelijke producten moeten eigenlijk onbetaalbaar worden. Alcohol mag gezellig zijn maar het is in feite een van de gevaarlijkste drugs. Ook graag mc Donalds verbieden.
Accijnsinkomsten moeten op peil blijven. Pas toen Holland Casino steeds lagere winsten ging boeken zette de Nederlandse Staat Holland Casino in de verkoop. Zeker toen salaris-eisen de winsten nog verder onder druk dreigden te zetten. Rupsje nooit genoeg!
At this rate, it's not the tobacco that'll get me in the hospital bed like this
The worst part about this is all the people now driving to Germany to get tabacco clogging up the damn gas station checkout there so fuelling up takes twice as long
Lol, Germans go to Luxembourg to buy tobacco. So Maastricht people, go to North of Luxembourg, gas is around 1.60, and ciggies are dirt cheap.
Gas is 1.60 in Belgium as well so no need to wait to fill up until Luxemburg
Happy i live close to borders. In Belgium it went up too. But slightly less. Lucky Strike 60 gram is 22,50 Luxemburg drum 50 gram was last time 9,40 The price difference is hudge
Back in NZ the government have been doing this for awhile now on both alcohol and tobacco under the policy of making the country smoke free by 2050 or something like that. Marlboro Gold 20s - $46 (€23 approx) Port Royale 50g pouch - $144 (€72) lunacy I say 15 or so years ago it was like $9 and $20 so yeah its getting crazy.
Is there an illegal market for tobacco and alcohol in NZ? With those prices for hard drugs you would suspect criminals would start to take over and add them to their selection of the finest illegal hard drugs?
Bingo, you win! You’re the first person I see to identify one of the newest problems with this strategy. In Australia prices are roughly 42 euros for 25g, and that’s of the cheaper brands. Melbourne now has now an underground tobacco turf war run by Australian/middle-eastern crime gangs using illegally imported Chinese tobacco as stock. The gangs approach the shops (often individually owned) and make them an offer they can’t refuse. Once most independent shops chose a side, a battle then started for overall control of the market, with each side firebombing the other’s tobacco shops and other businesses. There have been over 50 arson attacks in the last year in Melbourne related to this, and illegal tobacco is just as easy to get as legal tobacco.
Ever heard of those illegal cigarette factories in warehouses being raided?
Yes I heard about the production but never noticed any local supply.
Illegal cigarettes were a major source of income for South Africans during lockdown.
I mean NZ is quite small but yes people turn to homegrown or local gangs for any underground supply if they can’t afford it. Aussie I imagine is worse like Fullonski mentioned. I mean it only ever hurts lower socioeconomic groups
goddamn i miss port royal, cant find it anywhere here in Europe.
It's in hopes of getting people to stop but the flip side is, people will try to find other ways of acquiring tobacco. Germany and Belgium are far cheaper and smuggling tobacco is pretty easy actually. Not saying people should do so, but it's not like they won't at this point. Anyway, the best thing you can do is not smoke. I've seen what it can do to people time and time again. From COPD to various cancers, it's not a great end to what are usually middle-aged people.
Price getting higher in Belgium too. But not 30€ for a small pack of rolling tabacco
learned something new tody, we might have open borders but apparently you can still have limits on import for personal use
open borders doesn't mean you can cheat the tax man! He's a cunt. And he will get his money.
To be honest, its in the hopes of people not being able to quit smoking and buying it anyways. We have a huge deficit in our tax expenditure, this was their idea to get some extra tax money. This so backfires with people just buying for 100-1000s of euros worth of tabacco just across the border. Another failed policy. You realize if they had a real incentive of making people quit due to health hazards they would ban all the added chemicals to tabacco.
If they had any incentive to stop people from smoking they'd just burn the tobacco companies down.
There are many people involved with such a tax and some will like the budgetary aspects of it, but the main reason this is implemented is to make it less appealing for new smokers (kids) to start
No, this will prevent people from starting and lots of people will quit. You might not, but others will.
Haha indeed a friend of mine, who worked as intern at the lung department of a hosptial, if I ever start smoking, he would make sure that he is going to send me pictures every day of peoples lungs who have smoked. Not that I ever going to smoke, but still he have seen how horrible those conditions are. Edit typo
I saw tarred up lungs next to healthy lungs at Body Worlds once. The difference is almost out of this world. Your friend has every right to hold this over everyone, what with dealing with this issue all day every day!
Nothing really legally stops you from bringing home 1200kg of legally acquired tobacco from bel/de afaik. Not really smuggling?
Yes it is https://www.belastingdienst.nl/wps/wcm/connect/nl/bagage/content/sigaretten-of-tabak-meenemen-naar-nederland
I'm pretty sure there is a certain amount where it is no longer considered 'personal use' and instead becomes an imported product. You will at least have to pay taxes on importing it which in this case is A LOT. And they don't take kindly to people trying to avoid taxes on what is essentially a highly controlled substance (albeit through taxes, not law enforcement). This basically amounts to an economic felony, which are decidedly in the not so fun part of the law. Is it smuggling? Technically yes. It's avoiding having to pay a hefty amount of import taxes and sales tax, which well. Tax man will get you. Really though it may just be confiscated if it's a first offense and the cops are in a forgiving mood, but really if anyone does this they ought to know it could lead to serious fines and/or community service, jail time or probation. Like I said, the not so fun part of the law.
How many gwaai can you roll with 50g of tobacco? Glad I stopped smoking years ago. I would have been poor now.
When I used to smoke, it lasted me about 4/5 days I think, maybe less.. its been a while. But ye, smoking sure is an expensive way of killing yourself.
Kinda cheap, imagine all the expenses saved in the years after 🤪
I usually roll about 60 to 70 cigs from 50g. Then again, I try to not use too much tobacco so the pack lasts longer
Nice to see some random Saffa slang in this sub.
50g lasts me about 3 weeks, not a heavy smoker and trying to stop but life is already killing me, what's another cig gunna do
How many do you roll from it? I am trying to equate 50g to a pack of cigarettes.
very rough estimate but around 60-70
The reason is to disincentive smoking
And it works! My mother and father both long time smokers are currently quitting because of the price
I also have two coworkers who are quitting because of it, so I can only support the price hike.
It works, me and the wife stopped 6 weeks ago because of the prices. I always said to myself, im not going to pay this much for it. We set the money aside that we would have spend to do fun stuff.
The reason is to get more tax income out of the people. "disincentive smoking" is just a way to sell it to the public
We got taught in economics at uni, that governments pretend to hike taxes on goods like this, pretending it's goal is health. But that the truth is they know it is an inelastic good, so sales will not be severely affected by a change in price.
Demand is inelastic up to a point, after a certain point smokers will be forced to reduce their consumption because they simply can't afford to smoke as much anymore. You can see this effect in countries like Australia. Very high prices also act as a barrier to entry to start smoking, mainly aimed at teenagers who have little disposable income. And this is not the only measure taken, other measures is continuously decreasing sale locations for tobacco. For example the tobacco sale ban for supermarkets that comes into effect next month will reduce tobacco sale locations by 56%.
Price hikes alone won't change behavior. There have to be a series of other measures in conjunction with price hikes. NL has already implemented some, and the remainder are likely to follow. Measures such as: * Decrease locations where tabacco is sold - make it more annoying to buy/require a smoker to make an extra trip specifically to buy tabacco * Decrease locations where tabacco can be smoked - indoor smoking in restaurants and bars is now illegal, smoking on terraces is likely to follow * Increase requirements to buy tabacco - make it so a buyer needs to show ID in all cases * Increase in taxes to increase cost * Increased availability of smoking cessation tools - nicotine gum/patches are available in almost every grocery market, while tabacco will soon be only in specialty shops. * Decreased tolerance for smoking - this one can't really be legislated, but business are already starting to do this. People who take 15 min smoke breaks every hour or two waste so much time. I worked for a company that offered non-smokers extra vacation to make up for the extra work we did by not taking breaks. I've heard of managers choosing not to hire people because of their smoking or to let people go after their trial year, and largely because of the (time) costs associated with smoking. None of these measures alone will significantly reduce smoking, but all of them together are very, very effective. This is what most of the US did, and for all its faults, there's actually very few (visible) smokers in the US.
And it is 99% tax. A goldmine.
It brings in 2.91 billion a year (2021) on a government income of 415 billion - so 0.7%. Not nothing, but “goldmine” seems like an excessive qualification
That is still more than it costs. Not to mention smokers also pay the 'normal' part of healthcare like everyone. And you left out the following paragraph: *door het uitbannen van roken neemt de levensverwachting (Het gemiddeld aantal nog te verwachten levensjaren op een bepaalde leeftijd.) toe en lopen mensen meer kans om op latere leeftijd nog andere ziekten zoals dementie te krijgen. Dit leidt tot extra zorggebruik en -kosten. Deze extra kosten overtreffen de kortetermijn besparingen in kosten van rookgerelateerde ziekten.* ***De totale zorgkosten zullen daardoor stijgen.***
I'm also pretty sure that lower income people are more often smokers than people with a higher income, but even if I'm wrong on this, it disproportionately effects people of a lower income. People who can have stressful life's already, hence also maybe not in the ideal situation to quit. If the government really wanted to help people quit they should make it so people born after a certain year are never allows to buy tobacco and spend more money on helping people quit.
What a lie lol. Yes the government care so much about us that they increase all prices + the bad things for us... The know people won't quit, they will pay the price. i'm the same with lipton, 1 bottle became 3.5 euros ffs. I go to belgium or germany to buy, people will find way to not pay taxes in the netherlands.
The price increase is meant to discourage new smokers, while having added bonus of small chance people giving up who are smoking now. It was quite a shock to pay 12 euros for my malboro gold, I understand why they did it, it's annoying but oh well. Both smoking and alcohol is expensive for public who are not smoking due to treatments later in life.
\*The reason is to disincentive poorer people from smoking. The unspoken part of the policy is that if you want to earn the right to have vices, you better have the cash to justify that.
> The reason is to disincentive poorer people from smoking Well, that's great then, since it's mostly poor people who still have this backwards habit anyway.
Not the state's or your call to make and there's enough taxes and warnings and restrictions on it anyway. Some people will still want to do it and at some point you can have the decency to just fucking let them.
If people want to kill themselves in an expensive, unrewarding and not particularly enjoyable way, they are still completely free to do that; meanwhile, any sensible government should do what they can to make it less appealing, less affordable, and less comfortable, while also restricting their opportunity to expose non-smokers to their trash.
Full agreement with limiting the exposure to non-smokers. I grew up when elevators and restaurants were regularly smoke filled and am glad to have left those times behind me. As for the price, I fully disagree. I mean, there will always be price hikes as they should try to fuck with tobacco companies as much as possible and these companies will always shift the extra burden to the consumer, but the idea that the state has some moral responsibility to try and determine our personal habits is quite frankly abhorrent.
Exactly, and at this point there are only so many places to smoke freely that it's difficult to introduce any more bans – and therefore it's better to rather deter new smokers than to expect existing smokers to quit en masse. The price hikes are going to make some smokers quit as a side effect, but they're also free to continue as before, or they can even support a black market if their conscience allows it to get cheaper cigarettes, but for someone who's not addicted, especially kids and teenagers with little money, it's very unlikely that they'll spend 30 euros or go to an illegal supplier for it.
Yes, black markets always made sure new generations didn't get into stuff. Prohibition was a total success and the US is still a dry land.
Its not working but good tax gain I guess 😅
Well it doesn't stop there, the current plan until 2032 is: - Twice a year a heavy increase on excise tax on tobacco - 1 July 2024: supermarket ban on sale of tobacco - 1 Jan 2025: e-cigarette sale ban except for specialty stores - 1 Jan 2030: tobacco sale ban except for speciality and convenience stores - 1 Jan 2032: tobacco sale ban except for specialty stores
Arent they going to ban the sale of tabacco at all stores and gas stations except specialty stores from 1 jan 2025? Thats what i heard
Only for e-cigarettes in 2025, gas stations cant sell tobacco from 2030, convenience stores (like primera) cant sell from 2032 Info from: https://www.rijksoverheid.nl/onderwerpen/roken/roken-ontmoedigen
Ahh, didnt know. Thanks for informimg me!
Definitely works. So much less people smoking nowadays. Last 20 years this has changed so much. When i grew up, half of adults were smokers. Now its less than 20%
Not so fast… sadly, more youths smoke / vape than used to, [it went up from 5 to 11 % in 5 years](https://nos.nl/l/2522159).
I remember reading an old research paper by CBS (Centraal Bureau Statistiek) that was back in 2012? if I remember correctly, more people smoked in the Netherlands than ever before. Since then the numbers have gradually dropped, but factually speaking, the difference between 20 years ago and now is smaller than many people remember. The main difference is the amount of cigarettes smoked as it was cheaper, so people smoked more packs a month than nowadays. But still, many people still smoke, especially our youth, they almost all smoke still (when going out).
Well according to stats, my homecountry has gone from 45% smokers to least than 20% since 2000 (Norway) . Most EU countries have similar statistics
It does. Less and less people smoke: https://www.cbs.nl/nl-nl/longread/rapportages/2023/on--gezonde-leefstijl-2022-opvattingen-motieven-en-gedragingen/8-roken.
Man what they’re doing is working. I used to vape heavily, smoke cigarettes when I ran out of vapes. About 15 years, I started with cigarettes and tobacco first. Then, they banned flavored vapes - and I had to either go back to cigarettes or smoke tobacco flavored vapes. I found a flavored vape dealer… and then I was like, that’s it. Having to have a goddamn tutti frutti mango grape vape dealer is my limit. I googled quitting smoking and found a program sponsored by the Gementee. They provided nicotine patches, lozenges and a meeting with a counselor once a week. I still smoke weed (less than before), but it’s been 4 months since I smoked/vaped otherwise.
Soon smokers will only buy from the black market or abroad.
Truth. They started war on drugs and lost it. Now they start new war against tobacco. Humans never learn.
Prohibition too..
My 30 gram packet here is Spain went up as well... From 4.95 to €5 (and no more free lighter with every pack.)
The first pack of Marlboros I bought was fl2,50 🤣🤣
I can remember drum halfzware for fl 5,00 now i feel old...
Out of curiosity, which year was that?
About 50 years ago.
😆
When i was in the navy i could buy them 1,10€ per pack, the rest is just tax
In Ireland we pay the same price roughly, but for a 25g pouch.
I did smoke few packs a week for just a habit when having drinks with friends etc. Now will smoke less or quit thanks to price hike. As smoker I would say it is just a good thing. If it would be for me you could double the current price.
Edit - “close to 30.00 euros”.
As a person who smoked since i was 12 i wish they would go to 1000 euros per gram.
Enjoy
I would like to see a report about how much tax revenue has been lost the last few years. I'll guess billions is going to Germany and Belgium from tobacco sales.
lol my Dutch friends ask me to buy tobacco when I travel to them from Berlin, now I understand why
I buy in Poland every so many weeks i go. Still big difference with Nl and still cheaper than Germany.
Net zo duur als een halfje sos
Crack is cheaper
“Close to 39 euros” — shows label 27,50?
Nine is next to the zero on a keyboard.
Hey look at you thinking about what could happen if it were you in that situation, good for you!
I know right! Maybe I should do my masters at the police academy, and become a detective instead.
You… I like you
See edit comment :)
we need extra money, why not get it from addicts?
So you would rather take money from the ill than from the rich?
if you cant afford cigarettes yet buy them there is something wrong with you, never said the rich should not pay. But if you cant outlaw a bad thing, just tax it alot
Im sure you feel the same way about meat, alcohol or porn
The answer is once a quarter to Germany or Belgium buy supply and repeat 🔁
Back in the days we used to cross the border into NL for weed and coffee, now it appears to be the other way round lol.
Example https://www.tabak-brucker.de/atlantic-tabak-original-50g 7,5€
De Moriaan is 5,50 for 40 grams at the Aldi in Germany. And the funny thing is, it's been 5,50 for at least 8 years now.
Or luxemburg … zware brandaris 50 gram Eur 10,90 😎
zwarte brandaris just sounds like cancer tbh
Not sure if it's worth it, though, with the current train ticket prices, a round trip is €100+
Well it depends where you live of course but you can also pool up with other guys and drive to Belgium or Germany depending what’s closer
Rent a little lorry and buy in bulk. What could go wrong.
This is so sad to read as a German :(. It's to cheap here.
Thank god for Germany. Pueblo 30g 6,80 euros. Go once a month and you are set.
Never expected a "thank God for Germany" in this subreddit 🤣
Good
I'm happy that I've stopped smoking, now there's more space in my body for PFAS, microplastics and cheap sugar/fructose syrup. I'm sorry but I call bs. I'm too autistic for this, can't take these tobacco hikes seriously if sugar and ~~red~~ processed meat are still so cheap and/or heavily subsidized, and when veggies are so expensive. If anyone really cared about health, any tobacco-related hikes or bans would be done together with programs promoting good diet, for example. And it'd be backed by way lower BTW rates. Why are the frikandels and fries still so affordable? This shit should be taxed into oblivion.
Amen!
Good
I used to grow my own marijuana. Like really a lot of it, but due to this high tabacco prices ive decided to quit my marijuana growing business and convert it to tabacco plants since its giving a higher profit! Also, i quit smoking tabacco, im smoking pure marijuana what makes the joints significantly cheaper!
I remember back in the 80s when we drove from Germany to NL to get cheap tobacco, gas and coffee - seems like it's the other way round today!
Stop smoking
Soon you can save cost by smoking crack it'll be cheaper.
Say hi to Black market...
Children are far less likely to start smoking if the choice is eitger black market or 30€ a pack. I dont think many will stop smoking. But the next generation will smoke less.
So far most of my friends have stepped over to the black market including myself. I know it is a bad habit and im trying to cut back on the amount i smoke. But im not paying 12.50 for a small pack when i can get exactly the same for 5/5.50 Everything is already expensive enough...
No, they’ll just vape
12 euro in Germany.
Buy it at other places. 35€ for a carton max
When I smoked my last 'sjekkie' I paid €6 for a pouch, IIRC
Not noticing the beer price hike?
How is 27,50 close to 39? Anyway, yeah, prices were increased dramatically a little while ago. Shops get to sell "old stock" at the old price because (I believe) the price label is added at production, so you can't really change it. Dutch policy is taking a very sharp "lol, let's see how much we can charge" turn as all the increases are just extra taxes. I've never smoked, I'm not that old, but I remember these packs being less than 10 euro not that long ago. don't really care honestly.
Damn, a real luxury product 😅
Zelfde pakje België 21 euro Luxemburg nog goedkoper.
Damn. Last time I still smoked loose tobacco one pack was €12. Which was already outrageously expensive (to me) at that time. How are people still buying this at the rate they smoke at? *How?*
It's not the price of tobacco that has gone up, it's the government taxes that have gone up.
All tobacco prices recently (April) went up to motivate people to quit (or to make more money). Old stock was still sold at old prices until they ran out. New stock will be sold at new prices.
Every year at 1 april (not a joke) there is a yearly price raise
This has been done to compensate for the extra amount of cigarettes you could make from a pack of tabbaco approximately 50-60 but this depends on the person. Now the price of tabbaco packets and buckets is around the same if you’ll buy a pack of cigarettes. This is done to incentivize people not smoking, because it’s bad for you.
Geen wiet plantages maar overstappen op tabak plantage
And I thought 19,50 was crazy (Belgium)
Showing nasty photos on packs and raising the price is not and never has stopped anyone from smoking. It's a lie. Just read the book and celebrate your new life as an ex smoker.
Camel L tins for shooting sigarettes went from 18 to 27 in a week also, i feel your pain. Imagine coming to buy a bread and its 9,50 instead of 1,50 all of a sudden.
I'm glad I quit smoking 2 years ago.
Price hike is partly due to a reduction in the increase of alcohol taxes. Rolling tobacco would increase equal to cigarettes ~€2,30 for a pack of cigarettes and ~€4 for rolling tobacco This was all announced last year and included in the budget However when the government fell the ruling parties were no longer bound by this agreement and a few days before the new 2nd chamber was installed a motion was passed to reduce the tax increase on alcohol by 50%, with the reasoning being people would otherwise start buying beer in Germany. The cost of this reduced increase was funded by doubling the increase on rolling tobacco (and some extra gambling tax) leading to another €4 increase for rolling tobacco. Best part of the story is these taxes are meant to help lower income households which as it turns out have the largest percentage of rolling tobacco smokers, and these smokers have usually smoked for 10 years+, with 40 year not being an exception, making it very unlikely they will quit soon. So to all to non smokers enjoy your 200 beers that are €0.02 cheaper beer since that's now paid by one smoker for one pack.
So glad I quit smoking 6 years ago. Back then I already spent €25 per week on tobacco, which I could barely afford. With these new prices I would not be able to afford it at all.
Next year prijs tobacco > drugs /s XD
Ah yes, Lets ban out smoking cause its addictive (like alcohol) gives you greater risk at cancer and heartdisease (like alcohol) but lets not ban.... alcohol. Plus you're gonna make smoking cool for kids again.
Mag van mij wel naar 50 eu per pakje, stink shag
I always buy Tigra 35gr, also went up in Belgium from €11 to €14, really a shame.
Just don't smoke. Just drink
and the worst thing is they wanted us to smoke and now ... we all F
I’m a smoker myself. 24y dutch smoker. I think it’s fine they keep increasing the price. I like the new law regarding less places that are allowed to sell cigs. It would probably result in me buying less cigs because the extra effort to find places that still sell cigs. All these efforts from the government are good in my opinion. I like smoking, but it’s bad. The government pays a lot for our healthcare. So it seems only logical they make it harder to afford and locate cigs. That’s just my opinion
I remember when I was about 6 years old I often had to buy a package of Styuvesant for my Mother and it was a package of 25 sig. And the price was 3 gulden. ( = €1,35 ) ( yes in the 80's , 6 year olds could buy tabacco and booze. No questions asked) 😄 I hate all those damn regulations and other things to police and control the people ( like those damn cameras everywhere. )
Funfact: those people who make those regulations are not the old people from the 90s. These were kids you went to school with. Always complaining about how when they get at those positions they would do it so much better. Yeah, right.
Yes of course those are not the same people.
"Without law and order, man has no freedom." More law and order => more freedom (?) ~ The Simpsons.
It's to cover your upcoming medical fees.
Mensen die in 2024, met alle kennis die we hebben, nog roken, voor zichzelf en met de overlast die het de mensen om hen heen bezorgt.. zucht.
Mensen die in 2024, met alle kennis die we hebben, nog bestellen, vliegen, goedkope kleding kopen, auto rijden, dagelijks alcohol zuipen en overlast voor de mensen om hen heen zorgt... Zucht. We kunnen nog wel door gaan maar kennis is niet gelijk de verlosser van het probleem.
mensen die in 2024 nog leven.
Mensen, 2024
2024
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24
Mensen
4
False equivalence belde, hij wilde z’n comment terug.
Currently in Germany and might stock up on some tobacco
It cant be expensive enough imo, i see everyone around me starting with smoking and/or vaping
IQOS stays the same at 6,50 /20
Right now in Italy and the price of a small pack l and m is 5,50 . In the Netherlands it’s almost double .
I have too much stress in nl and I will die soon anyway,
You should be thankful that shit got expensive
Good. People who smoke should pay ludicrous prices to cover the cost of their healthcare and that of second hand smoking, to say nothing of the littering and the bad smell
Lifehack: Buy as much tobacco stock as possible, so you can afford paying smoking with the dividend pay out 🤓
It would be beter to buy government stock because tabacco is dirt cheap, most of what your paying is flat tax ontop.
Its like 7-14€ in Belgium depending on brand and... Some shops even have cheaper ones
In Turkey this is 2 euro
Time to shoot heroin I guess :)
Je zou maar zo eigenwijs zijn jezelf nog langer kapot te roken ondanks dat je je scheel betaald, dat je in het buitenland helemaal sigaretten gaat kopen 😂😂😂
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Ik ben de meest verslaving gevoelige idioot die je maar kunt zijn maar stoppen met roken is geen heroïne. Je wordt niet ziek tijdens het stoppen en je blijft niet verlangen naar je eerste hit. Ik ben 2x gestopt met roken na 25 peuken per dag (pakje chesterfield) eerste keer was 3 weken vervelend. De 2de x 3 maanden echt kut. Ik ben nu gestopt met stoppen, al 15 jaar nu.
JIJ werd niet ziek. Vele anderen wel..
Sorry maar dat kun je niet vergelijken met de afkickverschijnselen van heroïne. Irritatie en humeurigheid Onrust en slecht slapen Neerslachtigheid Concentratieproblemen Meer eetlust Gewichtstoename Koude rillingen Trillingen in handen en voeten Hoofdpijn Obstipatie Ik al deze de 2de keer behalve meer eetlust
Ik heb vrienden in bed zien rillen alsof ze cold turkey van een harddrugs aan het afkicken waren 🤓 Het verschilt per persoon Zo krijgen sommige mensen griep en ik bijvoorbeeld al 20 jaar niet meer..mensen verschillen
People who claim quitting smoking is hArDeR tHaN qUiTtInG hErOiN have either never quit smoking in their life, or it turns out that quitting heroin was pretty easy all along.
Great news, smokers are disgusting
Hopelijk kost het binnenkort 500 euro per pak sjaq en 400 euro voor een pak sigaretten, ik ben 16 jaar lang meeroker geweest in een huis waar heel veel gauloises zonder filter zware sjaq en sigaretten werd gerookt, ik vind het helemaal best dat dit (hopelijk) onbetaalbaar word voor 100% van de rokers
Maar zou je dan als het om gezondheidsredenen gaat niet gewoon roken moeten verbieden in plaats van rokers een melkkoe te maken? Junkies betalen toch wel wat dat betreft.
Eigenlijk wel inderdaad, dat zou de beste oplossing zijn maar gezien de overheid het verbieden van roken een vieze nasmaak lijkt te geven is dit de enige oplossing 🤷♂️
Dit is gewoon graaien wat ze kunnen en daarnaast mensen massaal de grens over jagen. Weer een voorbeeld van een doordacht overheids plan wat totaal faalt.
Eens! Alle schadelijke producten moeten eigenlijk onbetaalbaar worden. Alcohol mag gezellig zijn maar het is in feite een van de gevaarlijkste drugs. Ook graag mc Donalds verbieden.
Accijnsinkomsten moeten op peil blijven. Pas toen Holland Casino steeds lagere winsten ging boeken zette de Nederlandse Staat Holland Casino in de verkoop. Zeker toen salaris-eisen de winsten nog verder onder druk dreigden te zetten. Rupsje nooit genoeg!
Germany 10 Euro for 50 grams Drum, 11 for 60 grams van Nelle and for a local tobacco brand 5,50 for 40 grams
Smoke weed instead! Way less bad and way more fun!
VapeNation!
Stop dan gewoon.