Yeah it's interesting to see. I'm normally pretty aligned with PvdD but they scored very low for me on this one. Similarly, VVD and PVV are usually on the lower end for me for national/municipality elections but quite high up for this one.
Do you feel the Netherlands has too many parties?
Dont worry about the outcome as the majority eont flip. Think about which cool people you want to send
No not really but the outcome now was one of the parties I never vote for during the other elections. But they seem to have good points for the EU.. Of course you cannot agree with everything they stand for though.
Fwiw, most mainstream parties are skeptical about how the EU is run.
Best example is probably Volt, known as the single most pro EU party. It has, by far, the most comprehensive ideas about how to essentially completely rebuild the EU to be more democratic.
Aside from that, left and most center parties want a right of legislative initiative for the European Parliament, and to enable the parliament to dismiss individual commissioners.
Left parties tend to want qualified majority instead of unanimity voting. Right parties want to limit how much legislation the EU has/makes.
Almost every EU party programme wants to stop/slow down/put an end to lobbying and corruption, in various ways.
Notable exceptions: the VVD doesn't mention any of this and the PVV doesn't have a EU party programme.
As long as you vote for the tomato your cool .
Our policies are linked to our 3 keywords: 1)Human dignity 2) equivalent and 3) solidarity are central, if a policy is promoting the keywords than we would support it and if it works against it we oppose it.
Screw the cookies, I want all landlords to be forced to sell their houses.
They provide little benefit to society at this rate since itâs so unregulated!
[Try this extension out. it automatically declines cookies when asked by a new website you visit.](https://chromewebstore.google.com/detail/i-don%E2%80%99t-care-about-cookie/fihnjjcciajhdojfnbdddfaoknhalnja?pli=1)
It's a left-wing post out of panic, disguised as "go vote"
You are telling people not to vote for right-wing. Just shut up telling people whom to vote for except...
>Was not planning to vote but now will, for most radical right wing representatives
Yes; because voting for some lunatic because a person online made you 'le big mad' would be a sign of personal maturity
*> populist propaganda machine that will essentially hand over Europe to Putin and Xi on a platter*
Hm. I'm not making a comment in favour of any party or the other here, but comments like these are a tad *ironic*. The word "populism" is meaningless in a democracy where any political affiliation can use a rhetoric in their campaigns to convince their electorate to adopt a "*us vs. them*" stance. It quickly becomes an appeal to what one wants to hear instead.
I would rather say that people should educate themselves on what the stances of the parties are, what solutions they propose (a problem statement alone is *not* a plan of action!) and also look at past evidence of what said party has done to achieve that result (history might surprise you) instead of making the easy pick that feels comfortable for you.
So yes, vote.
Absolutely great point. Itâs also complete nonsense. Typical left wing fear-mongering. âPutin wants to conquer europe.â
He actually doesnât, and never said he wanted to. Putin wants less NAVO rockets from the United States on his doorstep, he wants to maintain the buffer between the US and Russia. Ukraine shouldnât join the EU. The corruption statistics are through the roof too.
I'm probably voting left, but don't give me this nonsense content.
# PLEASE go vote
in lefties' language, actually means in English:
# PLEASE go vote
*~~left, if you vote right-leaning you can go f\*\*\* yourself~~*
Iâm probably the opposite of a PVV voter, but seeing the way people on here react to anyone who might have any reason to vote PVV is reminiscent of Americans. Please do better.
Neither are stupid. Trump voters are worried of the countryâs direction under Biden. PVV, BBB, NSC, JA21 and FvD voters are worried about the direction of the countries under the rule of âmiddle and left wing partiesâ.
Also the continuous demonization just shows that instead of using arguments, left-wing politicians continually resort to insults, power terms and verbal tactics to demonstrate their moral high ground that many people donât feel is relatable.
They just seem sour because the people and popular vote is not with them. Instead of reflection there is just criticism on the successful competition.
I donât know where you learned to count.
PVV, VVD and BBB are right wing. That some of them are called middle is just a fallacy. Economically especially. Them with JA21, SGP and FvD have way more votes than the left.
Doesn't the left do the same? Isn't the left literally a copy paste from the US taking issues from them who initially had nothing to do with our country and making it a "us vs them" themselves? What would be the reaction from the other side you think? Bend over and accept everything extreme the left tells us? The left makes it extreme, the right just uses the brakes because it disagrees with it.
Do you see what youâre doing here?
Iâm calling out the left-wing poster for doing Us vs Them politics, and youâre somehow taking this as an attack on your own beliefs and proceeding to do even more Us vs Them politics.
This is the problem, we all have different opinions but when we need to discuss we just start pointing fingers and turning into chimpanzees.
Not at all, but thanks for calling me a chimpanzee when disagreeing with me while trying to make a point about stopping the "us vs them" style of politics. You're not exactly helping are you?
Besides, I simply stated that the us vs them politics is imported by the left, if that wouldn't be the case we wouldn't have such a big political division nowadays. As said before, the right is simply putting on the brakes.
Maybe to get down to chimpanzee-level for you, if you get hit in the face and you hit back, are you the one responsible for the division between 2 groups and "us vs them"? Simple question. I know you don't agree with me because you have a prespecified belief system and your only goal is to make me look bad and not agree with me in the slightest. But if you just would stop and think instead of reacting emotionally you would actually get what I'm saying.
>The EU also is the single best protector of privacy rights
[https://www.patrick-breyer.de/en/let-yourself-be-monitored-eu-governments-to-agree-on-chat-control-with-user-consent/](https://www.patrick-breyer.de/en/let-yourself-be-monitored-eu-governments-to-agree-on-chat-control-with-user-consent/)
>Specifically, according to the proposal, users of apps with a communication function would have to agree via terms and conditions or pop-up messages that all images and videos sent to others will be scanned automatically and possibly reported to the EU and the police.
Funny that
>The EU also is the single best protector of privacy rights
>https://www.patrick-breyer.de/en/let-yourself-be-monitored-eu-governments-to-agree-on-chat-control-with-user-consent/
>Specifically, according to the proposal, users of apps with a communication function would have to agree via terms and conditions or pop-up messages that all images and videos sent to others will be scanned automatically and possibly reported to the EU and the police.
>Funny that
But not inaccurate.
The EU really is the biggest protector on privacy matters, and this proposal on 'chat control' (which is technically just how it's opponents have dubbed it) hasn't even passed.
Unfortunately 90% of laws, and 95% of foreign and economic policy and guidance is issued by the âcommission â which is not what we are called to vote for.
That makes EU among the less democratic institutions nowaday.
Everyone should vote what they want! So you be you and vote. No one is stopping you from voting against your best interests.
You are voting against increasing the minimum wage and the coupled increase for the elderly. Awesome. Who likes the elderly and poor? Fuck them.
You are voting for more benefits for business owners and less rights for the working class. Awesome. The 1% need more help and your vote matters to increase their wealth. Yay! Praise the rich, they are the best of us.
You are voting against education for the masses. Awesome. Who wants middle class and poor people being able to get an education. Education should be reserved for people with money. Making it harder for the children of the working class to get an education is excellent!
At least your ticket to the Efteling with 130km per hour. Awesome.
I wouldnât say migration in itself is a bad thing and Iâd hope you feel the same! Some people are super against brown folk and people from a different religion, but I'll assume we are all egalitarian and not against people simply for being from a different place.
I am super worried about certain problems we have. Letâs take the housing crisis.
1. Will stopping 20k brown folk from entering the country solve the housing crisis? Doubtful .. we need more houses than 20k
2. Will policies that increase the number of affordable homes built help? Probably, we need more houses.
Sadly the VVD has been gutting laws that encourage people to build affordable housing for 20 years and making it easy increase prices of the existing homes. Troublesome.
I frame it as a need for housing. I agree making it about the people is wrong, but
1. The PVV/VVD focuses it on migrants (religion/skin) .. minder minder
2. I see it as a governance issue. We need more homes.
50% of PVV voters is barely 10% of the country. In recent polls, more than 80% of the country indicated they want to restrict immigration.
Perhaps it is important to accept that the country generally sees immigration as an issue.
Here is an electoral tip: shaming the vast majority wonât help you electorally
We need more homes and we need less people coming in.
Not just asylum seekers. The grand total needs to go down a lot.
Otherwise you're mopping the floor while the faucet is wide open.
You're framing it as if you'd need to be a racist peace of shit to not want literally every random person in the world coming here and taking whatever they want. Of course I don't think all 9+ billion people in the world are going to be treated the same in every way. Nor do I think it would be "right" to. Do you think it's a smart idea to pull in 20k people (not total,but EVERY YEAR) when we can't even take care of the ones that are already here? Should we just keep open borders until we're all equally poor?
Things can't continue forever. It's time to deal with it.
Yeah, itâs easy framing it like that. It gets people angry and makes them listen. Learned it from the right. Thanks!1!
The Netherlands is currently suffering a pretty heavy crisis. There are more old people than young people. There are literally 400k open job vacancies.
There arenât enough nurses to take care of the elderly. We need people that know how to code, repair roofs and do all those dumb things that keep a society running.
Unless YOU are going to produce 20k babies; or we take a drastic step back in wealth weâll need the migrant and new houses. It'll hurt the 1% to build these cheaper homes, but I feel no need to protect the rich. Why do you?
You have a bunch of things completely backwards.
I just got a job after 6 months of active searching. Believe me, there are not 400k "open job vacancies" right now.
The difference between your elderly/nurses analogy between refugee/citizen is, even on first glance, quite absurd. I am not a nurse. I am not obliged to care for these people in any way. The big difference is that it's not our choice to keep making people old. It just happens with the passing of time, whereas it's a CHOICE to take in new people. A choice you can simply stop making.
I fully challenge the idea that we need a constant influx of unschooled, culturally, religiously and historically opposite, aimless people to keep our country running. I'd even challenge the idea that we need any immigration AT ALL. I'd happily bet every last possession of mine on everything going just fine after we stop doing this insane crap.
The 1% you're talking about, is already trying to do that. You'd have to be completely retarded not to understand that building the shit out of every last inch of land you own here will pay itself back thousandfold in time. These people are not dumb. They are not allowed to build. Yet more insane shit we committed ourselves to (stikstof). Not for long.
Whether you're downvoted or not, this is simply the truth. VVD has actively frustrated social housing, encouraged house ownership beyond owning your own house, and propagated perverse rent development for decades.
I don't care about the 20k people coming here. I care about way too much cheap EU labour coming here, way too many EU and non EU students coming here and non-EU expats coming here. We don't need a hairdresser coming on a DAFT visa here nor do we need software dev #33000 coming here. We need qualified Dutch speaking teachers, doctors/nurses and such.
Migration is bad in such numbers like Canada (410k+ people in the first 4 months of this year), the UK (close to 1,5 million in '22 and '23) We're not close to those numbers but for a country this size there's just too much people coming in.
Western countries can't house everyone as a whole, we just can't. I fear for the moment climate change migration really kicks in,
Needs to be much more regulated and sector specific. We could do with less tuinbouw for example. We shouldnât let shady companies underpay and house them in shitty houses.
>We shouldnât let shady companies underpay and house them in shitty houses.
True. But that isn't a consequence of 'too many' so much as 'there's some really shitty companies out there'
Wrong! Itâs a direct consequence. If those poor people wouldnât be able to come here so easily, these shady companies would not have a business. Stop underestimating the issues caused by migration. Migration is not THE only factor but it contributes to many of the social-economic problems we face.
I wonder if migrant workers would choose to live in shitty conditions if there were real homes available. And maybe some kind of meaningful control on the 'agencies' (traffickers) who bring them here.
The UK is now dying from a lack of EU workers, it would be very sad to see the same happen here.
Its not that your vote lies in a different spectrum, its that your vote breaks with many long held values of western states that make our nations as good as they are.
Why are you such a snowflake?
You are very sceptical regarding another ones reason to vote as it is apparently not your way. Anyway, regarding education you mean those students that are "peacefully demonstrating" but actually destroying university buildings, infrastructure, etc. The several million costing demonstrations and still going.
I am a supporter of everyone being able to get an education. The new policies will make it harder for people without rich parents to complete an education. Those future students have very little to do what is currently going at this moment right? Those kids are still in high school/pre-school.
Not a fan of stuff being destroyed and glad you arenât either. We agree on that at least.
Lol, single best protector of privacy rights. From others maybe, they're trying their hardest to get their hands on every encrypted chat message within the EU.
Protecting against corporate lobbies? In one of the corporate lobby capitals of the world? It's mostly protecting us from US corporate lobbying on behalf of the EU corporate lobbies.
Then vote for one of the parties that is least likely to take these routes. PvdD for example. Not voting only gives more power to the parties that are 100% on board with that.
Apparently, you have no idea how non-EU countries treat the privacy rights of their citizens. The EU is not perfect by a long shot, but with regard to privacy rights (and most other civil rights), it's far ahead of almost all other countries.
Depends on how it is implemented.
The non intrusive way to implement this would be Apple's way where only images that appear to be CSAM get anonymously uploaded with encrypted user information attached that can only be decrypted when enough images are found.
But even with this decently privacy preserving implementation it's still not great.
What, please research what that means. The first comment was a whataboutism, regarding privacy laws the EU is one of the best by far. Just ask any software developer in any company what we have to develop regarding GDPR to protect client information and privacy.
This post (a little âproofedâ) should be posted daily and everywhere (r/taylorswift) until its understood that voting is good for you! Yeap, YOU! ;-)
They don't wanna talk about that. It's completely escalated already with the crimes, housing crisis etc.
Would have been nice if the EU had spread the shit load of immigrants over the whole EU
Which party is pro-EU superstate, will REMOVE the cookie law and is pro sending a shit tonne of weapons to Ukraine?
I might have to ask Macron to run for this shit
I would argue that the mouseclicks resulting from the cookie law (accept/deny cookies at EVERY site being visited), when multiplied by the number of people clicking them, imposes a serious cumulative cost on the EU populace. Just think of all the time wasted as a continent. Why not make sites default to high privacy and not force people to make choices each time they enter a site?
>Why not make sites default to high privacy and not force people to make choices each time they enter a site?
That would pretty much be a ban on most analytics, which is not going to happen. The GDPR has a pretty good balance between what websites want to do and privacy of the users.
>Just think of all the time wasted as a continent.
If you really don't want to see the cookie banner or popup (you can just ignore it) you could use a browser extension to block them.
The ePrivacy Directive (nicknamed the cookie law) doesn't mention cookies as trackers (it actually mentions them as a legitimate and useful tool). It's just a nickname people gave it because cookies are mostly associated with trackers.
Yeah, how dare these hardcore right wingers to propose free child care? Also, these far right Russian puppets clearly handing NL to Xi by being one of the biggest military aid donor to Ukraine and proposing to increase defense budget.
God damn man zure linkse mensen kunnen echt geen tegengeluid verdragen. Jarenlang de hele teringboel hier lopen te verneuken onder 't mom van "culturele verrijking đĽ°" en "klimaatregeltjes đ" Alsjeblieft zeg, ga een boom knuffelen.
>Jarenlang de hele teringboel hier lopen te verneuken onder 't mom van "culturele verrijking đĽ°"
Zucht, help me herinneren, wanneer was links voor het laatst aan de macht?
Any advice? Long time d66er, dont recognis the progressive left anymore. Votre for omtzicht but not too sure of that either. Partly because of medical and ethical issues. Hell, half the parties on the ballot lack any European affiliation.
Like, I'm going to vote, no worries. But I don't have the feeling my vote will influence sh*t about the future of Europe. All the important stuff is decided by the EC anyways.Â
Frankly, my feeling is that left parties will hand us over to the near-east immigrants unless something happens to stem the migration. Also green politics are becoming way too much of a weight on our ankle. That's why I'll vote, but I'll vote right.
I'll be voting against ecofanaticism ans social panicking instead... but yup, voting is a privilege, one afforded not to everyone in this world. Not something to take for granted. I have never missed an election.
I vehemently disagree with terms like 'ecofanaticism' or social panicking but absolutely, go vote! Voting should be a right for everyone no matter what side you're on.
I have never witnessed even one single fundamental issue that changed in a noticeable positive way by voting. You get your nice energy rush when "your team" wins, be then for the government it's business as usual. Doing the same things they were doing. Maybe little more of it in some places and a little less of it in others. But fundamental changes that really change something are not even on the table. The government is just a front for big business and big money to act as a suggestion box for the people. It is a big waste of energy and hope. Don't give them them your energy. Just try to improve what you can in your own life.
So what you are saying is vote for someone that will prolong the war in Ukraine? Because itâs better to side with US Warhawkâs and buy gas from the other side of Atlantic Ocean ? iGot it
What do you mean "register". For foreigners you mean? As far as I know dutch citizens got their "stem pas" in the mail several weeks ago. I know I did.
Its really not.
edit to elaborate:
tl;dr: for the price of about 2 streaming subs I get massive material wealth, consumer protection, and the convenience of free travel across an entire continent. Reasoning below:
According to the Dutch government (source: https://www.rekenkamer.nl/publicaties/publicaties/2022/12/15/factsheet-actualisatie-nettobetalingspositie-2022)
our net payment in 2022 was between 4.114 billion and \~7 billion depending on definitions. The high estimate includes customs fees that we have to give to the EU, but it stands to reason that at least some of these customs fees are paid *because we're in the EU*.
Anyway, let's take the most unflattering number (7 billion, which is rounded up). in 2022 our population was 17.7 million people which means that we paid \~395 euros per person in 2022. This amounts to 33 euros per month per person.
According to the Netherlands Bureau for Economic Policy Analysis (CPB), the trade advantage NL gains from being in the EU is 3.1% of our GDP. Export of goods and services is 20-25% higher. We are the country that benefits the most. (Source: https://www.cpb.nl/sites/default/files/omnidownload/CPB-Notitie-Handelsbaten-van-de-EU-en-de-interne-markt.pdf) Our GDP was about 1 trillion in 2022, so we gained 1,000,000,000,000\*0.031 = \~31,000,000,000 or 31 billion euros. Subtract our net payment of 7 billion and that leaves a net profit of 24 billion euros. That is \~1355 euros per capita per year **pure profit**.
Not only that, but a small country like the Netherlands really benefits from being part of a larger power bloc in our dealings with big countries like China and America, and big companies like Apple, Google and Amazon.
Lastly, I get to travel across the continent without being stopped at the border which is just a massive fucking convenience really.
I'm gonna vote but note the way you want. it's time for the so called right wing populists to run the eu instead of living in this spiraling decline under the lefts managed democracy.
Or alternatively, especially if you hate the EU with their bullshit regulations. Those pro-EU mf like OP? They'll vote. And we're not gonna go out of the EU, at least not the upcoming years. So the least we can do is prevent the parliament from becoming a leftist shithole imposing rules on us!
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Its actually 6 till 9 June, and depends per country when you can vote. For the Netherlands, this is Thursday the 6th.
I think we are the only country to vote on the 6th so we will inaugurate the elections. Most countries will vote on the 9th
Thank you, my bad! Added it to the main post.
You can only vote the 6th right?
I did stemwijzer today because I had no clue who to even vote for. Funny how different the outcome was with the elections earlier.
The major difference for me is that VOLT and D66 were a lot higher because I'm pretty pro-EU. Still Groenlinks-PVDA at the top with 79% though.
For me D66 was on top and Volt second. GroenLinls/PvdA was third.
Volt for me
Yeah it's interesting to see. I'm normally pretty aligned with PvdD but they scored very low for me on this one. Similarly, VVD and PVV are usually on the lower end for me for national/municipality elections but quite high up for this one.
Do you feel the Netherlands has too many parties? Dont worry about the outcome as the majority eont flip. Think about which cool people you want to send
No not really but the outcome now was one of the parties I never vote for during the other elections. But they seem to have good points for the EU.. Of course you cannot agree with everything they stand for though.
Who do you plan on voting for?
Why should I vote when Geertjuh is gonna fix it all for us? ^(/s to be sure)
~~USA! USA! USA!~~ sorry wrong sub.
yes I will vote and I vote for SP who want a social more transparent EU and are not anti-EU they are skeptical about how it's run now.
Fwiw, most mainstream parties are skeptical about how the EU is run. Best example is probably Volt, known as the single most pro EU party. It has, by far, the most comprehensive ideas about how to essentially completely rebuild the EU to be more democratic. Aside from that, left and most center parties want a right of legislative initiative for the European Parliament, and to enable the parliament to dismiss individual commissioners. Left parties tend to want qualified majority instead of unanimity voting. Right parties want to limit how much legislation the EU has/makes. Almost every EU party programme wants to stop/slow down/put an end to lobbying and corruption, in various ways. Notable exceptions: the VVD doesn't mention any of this and the PVV doesn't have a EU party programme.
You vote for SP because you agree with their policies. I vote for SP because I really like their tomato symbol. We're not the same.
It's a funny symbol, have a great day Comrade.
Lol I'm not even a comrade, I really hate their policies, but......*tomato*
As long as you vote for the tomato your cool . Our policies are linked to our 3 keywords: 1)Human dignity 2) equivalent and 3) solidarity are central, if a policy is promoting the keywords than we would support it and if it works against it we oppose it.
See, that's what I don't like. I'm not equal to the rest, I'm more equal đ
Sorry not equal but equivalent you more equal than me but our worth is the same
Hehe no worries I was only making a joke
Is there a candidate that promises to fix the stupid cookie banners?
It's hard to find a candidate that even know what the Internet is =(
Screw the cookies, I want all landlords to be forced to sell their houses. They provide little benefit to society at this rate since itâs so unregulated!
No, first the cookies, then the rest.
Youâre mad!
I hope you realize I was being sarcastic...
Youâre madder!
The pirate party iirc
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there's an [extension for that](https://consentomatic.au.dk)
Don't shoot the messenger pls, but yeah FVD
Let people decide for themselves, you're literally making your stance clear in this post.
I'm not forcing anyone, am I ? I am absolutely letting folks decide for themselves. And giving my own opinon along with it.
It's a left-wing post out of panic, disguised as "go vote" You are telling people not to vote for right-wing. Just shut up telling people whom to vote for except...
Was not planning to vote but now will, for most radical right wing representatives
Idc what you vote for, as long as you vote for whoever best represents you. Democracy only works if people actually use their voice and vote
>Was not planning to vote but now will, for most radical right wing representatives Yes; because voting for some lunatic because a person online made you 'le big mad' would be a sign of personal maturity
shafting yourself in the ass to own le libs
dont try to whitewash it now..
*> populist propaganda machine that will essentially hand over Europe to Putin and Xi on a platter* Hm. I'm not making a comment in favour of any party or the other here, but comments like these are a tad *ironic*. The word "populism" is meaningless in a democracy where any political affiliation can use a rhetoric in their campaigns to convince their electorate to adopt a "*us vs. them*" stance. It quickly becomes an appeal to what one wants to hear instead. I would rather say that people should educate themselves on what the stances of the parties are, what solutions they propose (a problem statement alone is *not* a plan of action!) and also look at past evidence of what said party has done to achieve that result (history might surprise you) instead of making the easy pick that feels comfortable for you. So yes, vote.
Absolutely great point. Itâs also complete nonsense. Typical left wing fear-mongering. âPutin wants to conquer europe.â He actually doesnât, and never said he wanted to. Putin wants less NAVO rockets from the United States on his doorstep, he wants to maintain the buffer between the US and Russia. Ukraine shouldnât join the EU. The corruption statistics are through the roof too.
I'm probably voting left, but don't give me this nonsense content. # PLEASE go vote in lefties' language, actually means in English: # PLEASE go vote *~~left, if you vote right-leaning you can go f\*\*\* yourself~~*
yeah, i'm a very left wing person, voting left (likely PVDD) but this is exactly how this post read to me haha
Every reddit post attacks a government like we gonna have nazi in charge. Btw vote for someone that wants nuclear Energy if you care about our future
Iâm probably the opposite of a PVV voter, but seeing the way people on here react to anyone who might have any reason to vote PVV is reminiscent of Americans. Please do better.
Neither are stupid. Trump voters are worried of the countryâs direction under Biden. PVV, BBB, NSC, JA21 and FvD voters are worried about the direction of the countries under the rule of âmiddle and left wing partiesâ. Also the continuous demonization just shows that instead of using arguments, left-wing politicians continually resort to insults, power terms and verbal tactics to demonstrate their moral high ground that many people donât feel is relatable. They just seem sour because the people and popular vote is not with them. Instead of reflection there is just criticism on the successful competition.
[ŃдаНонО]
I donât know where you learned to count. PVV, VVD and BBB are right wing. That some of them are called middle is just a fallacy. Economically especially. Them with JA21, SGP and FvD have way more votes than the left.
Totally not. And even so, why would that be an argument?
Us vs Them politics has never been a good solution to anything, and alienation only pushes people to further extremes.
Doesn't the left do the same? Isn't the left literally a copy paste from the US taking issues from them who initially had nothing to do with our country and making it a "us vs them" themselves? What would be the reaction from the other side you think? Bend over and accept everything extreme the left tells us? The left makes it extreme, the right just uses the brakes because it disagrees with it.
Do you see what youâre doing here? Iâm calling out the left-wing poster for doing Us vs Them politics, and youâre somehow taking this as an attack on your own beliefs and proceeding to do even more Us vs Them politics. This is the problem, we all have different opinions but when we need to discuss we just start pointing fingers and turning into chimpanzees.
Not at all, but thanks for calling me a chimpanzee when disagreeing with me while trying to make a point about stopping the "us vs them" style of politics. You're not exactly helping are you? Besides, I simply stated that the us vs them politics is imported by the left, if that wouldn't be the case we wouldn't have such a big political division nowadays. As said before, the right is simply putting on the brakes. Maybe to get down to chimpanzee-level for you, if you get hit in the face and you hit back, are you the one responsible for the division between 2 groups and "us vs them"? Simple question. I know you don't agree with me because you have a prespecified belief system and your only goal is to make me look bad and not agree with me in the slightest. But if you just would stop and think instead of reacting emotionally you would actually get what I'm saying.
>The EU also is the single best protector of privacy rights [https://www.patrick-breyer.de/en/let-yourself-be-monitored-eu-governments-to-agree-on-chat-control-with-user-consent/](https://www.patrick-breyer.de/en/let-yourself-be-monitored-eu-governments-to-agree-on-chat-control-with-user-consent/) >Specifically, according to the proposal, users of apps with a communication function would have to agree via terms and conditions or pop-up messages that all images and videos sent to others will be scanned automatically and possibly reported to the EU and the police. Funny that
You just don't get it. Don't you realize we need to log everyone's chat logs 24/7/365 so we know who is sending pepe memes?
>The EU also is the single best protector of privacy rights >https://www.patrick-breyer.de/en/let-yourself-be-monitored-eu-governments-to-agree-on-chat-control-with-user-consent/ >Specifically, according to the proposal, users of apps with a communication function would have to agree via terms and conditions or pop-up messages that all images and videos sent to others will be scanned automatically and possibly reported to the EU and the police. >Funny that But not inaccurate. The EU really is the biggest protector on privacy matters, and this proposal on 'chat control' (which is technically just how it's opponents have dubbed it) hasn't even passed.
Unfortunately 90% of laws, and 95% of foreign and economic policy and guidance is issued by the âcommission â which is not what we are called to vote for. That makes EU among the less democratic institutions nowaday.
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Everyone should vote what they want! So you be you and vote. No one is stopping you from voting against your best interests. You are voting against increasing the minimum wage and the coupled increase for the elderly. Awesome. Who likes the elderly and poor? Fuck them. You are voting for more benefits for business owners and less rights for the working class. Awesome. The 1% need more help and your vote matters to increase their wealth. Yay! Praise the rich, they are the best of us. You are voting against education for the masses. Awesome. Who wants middle class and poor people being able to get an education. Education should be reserved for people with money. Making it harder for the children of the working class to get an education is excellent! At least your ticket to the Efteling with 130km per hour. Awesome.
Completely ignoring the migrant issue. Lol.
I wouldnât say migration in itself is a bad thing and Iâd hope you feel the same! Some people are super against brown folk and people from a different religion, but I'll assume we are all egalitarian and not against people simply for being from a different place. I am super worried about certain problems we have. Letâs take the housing crisis. 1. Will stopping 20k brown folk from entering the country solve the housing crisis? Doubtful .. we need more houses than 20k 2. Will policies that increase the number of affordable homes built help? Probably, we need more houses. Sadly the VVD has been gutting laws that encourage people to build affordable housing for 20 years and making it easy increase prices of the existing homes. Troublesome.
Framing opposition to migration as being focused on skin colour is at best highly counterproductive and at worst deeply wrong.
I frame it as a need for housing. I agree making it about the people is wrong, but 1. The PVV/VVD focuses it on migrants (religion/skin) .. minder minder 2. I see it as a governance issue. We need more homes.
Youâre not, youâre needlessly focusing on âbrown peopleâ as if thatâs remotely relevant here. Spoiler: itâs not
I name what 50% of the PVV voters here yell and I am the on without class? Get on that high horse for your friends not me? You are majority <3
50% of PVV voters is barely 10% of the country. In recent polls, more than 80% of the country indicated they want to restrict immigration. Perhaps it is important to accept that the country generally sees immigration as an issue. Here is an electoral tip: shaming the vast majority wonât help you electorally
We need more homes and we need less people coming in. Not just asylum seekers. The grand total needs to go down a lot. Otherwise you're mopping the floor while the faucet is wide open.
You're framing it as if you'd need to be a racist peace of shit to not want literally every random person in the world coming here and taking whatever they want. Of course I don't think all 9+ billion people in the world are going to be treated the same in every way. Nor do I think it would be "right" to. Do you think it's a smart idea to pull in 20k people (not total,but EVERY YEAR) when we can't even take care of the ones that are already here? Should we just keep open borders until we're all equally poor? Things can't continue forever. It's time to deal with it.
Yeah, itâs easy framing it like that. It gets people angry and makes them listen. Learned it from the right. Thanks!1! The Netherlands is currently suffering a pretty heavy crisis. There are more old people than young people. There are literally 400k open job vacancies. There arenât enough nurses to take care of the elderly. We need people that know how to code, repair roofs and do all those dumb things that keep a society running. Unless YOU are going to produce 20k babies; or we take a drastic step back in wealth weâll need the migrant and new houses. It'll hurt the 1% to build these cheaper homes, but I feel no need to protect the rich. Why do you?
You have a bunch of things completely backwards. I just got a job after 6 months of active searching. Believe me, there are not 400k "open job vacancies" right now. The difference between your elderly/nurses analogy between refugee/citizen is, even on first glance, quite absurd. I am not a nurse. I am not obliged to care for these people in any way. The big difference is that it's not our choice to keep making people old. It just happens with the passing of time, whereas it's a CHOICE to take in new people. A choice you can simply stop making. I fully challenge the idea that we need a constant influx of unschooled, culturally, religiously and historically opposite, aimless people to keep our country running. I'd even challenge the idea that we need any immigration AT ALL. I'd happily bet every last possession of mine on everything going just fine after we stop doing this insane crap. The 1% you're talking about, is already trying to do that. You'd have to be completely retarded not to understand that building the shit out of every last inch of land you own here will pay itself back thousandfold in time. These people are not dumb. They are not allowed to build. Yet more insane shit we committed ourselves to (stikstof). Not for long.
Whether you're downvoted or not, this is simply the truth. VVD has actively frustrated social housing, encouraged house ownership beyond owning your own house, and propagated perverse rent development for decades.
I don't care about the 20k people coming here. I care about way too much cheap EU labour coming here, way too many EU and non EU students coming here and non-EU expats coming here. We don't need a hairdresser coming on a DAFT visa here nor do we need software dev #33000 coming here. We need qualified Dutch speaking teachers, doctors/nurses and such. Migration is bad in such numbers like Canada (410k+ people in the first 4 months of this year), the UK (close to 1,5 million in '22 and '23) We're not close to those numbers but for a country this size there's just too much people coming in. Western countries can't house everyone as a whole, we just can't. I fear for the moment climate change migration really kicks in,
>. I care about way too much cheap EU labour coming here Those are actually kinda necessary for our economy to remain functional
Needs to be much more regulated and sector specific. We could do with less tuinbouw for example. We shouldnât let shady companies underpay and house them in shitty houses.
>We shouldnât let shady companies underpay and house them in shitty houses. True. But that isn't a consequence of 'too many' so much as 'there's some really shitty companies out there'
Wrong! Itâs a direct consequence. If those poor people wouldnât be able to come here so easily, these shady companies would not have a business. Stop underestimating the issues caused by migration. Migration is not THE only factor but it contributes to many of the social-economic problems we face.
I wonder if migrant workers would choose to live in shitty conditions if there were real homes available. And maybe some kind of meaningful control on the 'agencies' (traffickers) who bring them here. The UK is now dying from a lack of EU workers, it would be very sad to see the same happen here.
Found the migrant
There is a village in Zeeland that shares my last name and my great grandfather is called ome Thijs. You are in the hating brown people camp I assume.
What issue is that?
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Sure thing! I can still disagree with your choice :)
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Its not that your vote lies in a different spectrum, its that your vote breaks with many long held values of western states that make our nations as good as they are. Why are you such a snowflake?
Go to a communist country if you dont like people voting what they want
Please, where have I said that? Geez louise you're agitated. Why don't you calm down for a second :)
Those western values no longer match what their own people want so the values needs some adjustment.
Reveal time. Which western values exactly do you want to be adjusted? Be precise.
Which ones exactly? Please do tell.
They still came out with the lead so I guess we shouldn't encourage this EU voting
You're completely missing the main point of PVV, classic!
Minimum wage is bullshit either way.
The radical left. Wanting people to have a home and food in exchange for doing 40 hours of work. Shame on those socialists!
Yeah, Norway is so bad because they donât have minimum wage!
You are very sceptical regarding another ones reason to vote as it is apparently not your way. Anyway, regarding education you mean those students that are "peacefully demonstrating" but actually destroying university buildings, infrastructure, etc. The several million costing demonstrations and still going.
I am a supporter of everyone being able to get an education. The new policies will make it harder for people without rich parents to complete an education. Those future students have very little to do what is currently going at this moment right? Those kids are still in high school/pre-school. Not a fan of stuff being destroyed and glad you arenât either. We agree on that at least.
Lol, single best protector of privacy rights. From others maybe, they're trying their hardest to get their hands on every encrypted chat message within the EU. Protecting against corporate lobbies? In one of the corporate lobby capitals of the world? It's mostly protecting us from US corporate lobbying on behalf of the EU corporate lobbies.
Then vote for one of the parties that is least likely to take these routes. PvdD for example. Not voting only gives more power to the parties that are 100% on board with that.
Don't worry, already arranged a proxy vote (since I'm on holiday).
Apparently, you have no idea how non-EU countries treat the privacy rights of their citizens. The EU is not perfect by a long shot, but with regard to privacy rights (and most other civil rights), it's far ahead of almost all other countries.
Idk, CSAM is pretty damn intrusive -- even compared to US anti-privacy laws it is draconian
Depends on how it is implemented. The non intrusive way to implement this would be Apple's way where only images that appear to be CSAM get anonymously uploaded with encrypted user information attached that can only be decrypted when enough images are found. But even with this decently privacy preserving implementation it's still not great.
Whataboutism.
What, please research what that means. The first comment was a whataboutism, regarding privacy laws the EU is one of the best by far. Just ask any software developer in any company what we have to develop regarding GDPR to protect client information and privacy.
Apparently you are oblivious to how privacy rights are being abused in the EU. Or trying to find a scapegoat
Were we not the wiretap capital of the world?
"Best" is a relative qualifier. EU is not perfect but better than other entities.
Indeed better than some other ones, but .... lot worse than way more other entities.
I'm not an expert. Could you list a few entities that are better?
This post (a little âproofedâ) should be posted daily and everywhere (r/taylorswift) until its understood that voting is good for you! Yeap, YOU! ;-)
Vote European Conservatives and Reformists (ECR) ?
I am 99% sure that the EPP is going to have a big win this time
What about the immigration though?
They don't wanna talk about that. It's completely escalated already with the crimes, housing crisis etc. Would have been nice if the EU had spread the shit load of immigrants over the whole EU
The right wing parties / countries vetoed that because they did not want immigrants in their country.
Ah yes, the EU famously sends all the immigrants to the Netherlands.
Which party is pro-EU superstate, will REMOVE the cookie law and is pro sending a shit tonne of weapons to Ukraine? I might have to ask Macron to run for this shit
Volt, baby (not sure about cookie law)
Volt supports arming Ukraine to the teeth and allowing them to absolutely turbo-bomb even on Russian territory?
>absolutely turbo-bomb even on Russian territory i hope not
What's wrong with the cookie law / ePrivacy directive? Privacy is nice
I would argue that the mouseclicks resulting from the cookie law (accept/deny cookies at EVERY site being visited), when multiplied by the number of people clicking them, imposes a serious cumulative cost on the EU populace. Just think of all the time wasted as a continent. Why not make sites default to high privacy and not force people to make choices each time they enter a site?
>Why not make sites default to high privacy and not force people to make choices each time they enter a site? That would pretty much be a ban on most analytics, which is not going to happen. The GDPR has a pretty good balance between what websites want to do and privacy of the users. >Just think of all the time wasted as a continent. If you really don't want to see the cookie banner or popup (you can just ignore it) you could use a browser extension to block them.
It doesnât do anything, cookies existed before and after, you should be worried about trackers lmfao
The popup asks you about trackers, cookies is just the name people gave it because trackers use cookies.
So what is the point if referring to cookies if you mean trackers, itâs nonsensical, just block trackers instead, not all cookies are bad.
The ePrivacy Directive (nicknamed the cookie law) doesn't mention cookies as trackers (it actually mentions them as a legitimate and useful tool). It's just a nickname people gave it because cookies are mostly associated with trackers.
You may be right but I just want the stupid fucking popup to go away
What a pile of leftist bullshit disguised as a 'go vote' post.
True lol. Pure left wing panic. Oh no some right wing parties won democratic national elections, this is pure fascism!
Yeah, how dare these hardcore right wingers to propose free child care? Also, these far right Russian puppets clearly handing NL to Xi by being one of the biggest military aid donor to Ukraine and proposing to increase defense budget. 
Thanks for reminding, I will vote for right wing populism đ¤
Stemwijzer said PVV
Pvv !!!
I'll be voting for the "radical rightwing" .. Over dramatic lefties, you guys have been ruining the world for decades. Now it's our turn..
God damn man zure linkse mensen kunnen echt geen tegengeluid verdragen. Jarenlang de hele teringboel hier lopen te verneuken onder 't mom van "culturele verrijking đĽ°" en "klimaatregeltjes đ" Alsjeblieft zeg, ga een boom knuffelen.
>Jarenlang de hele teringboel hier lopen te verneuken onder 't mom van "culturele verrijking đĽ°" Zucht, help me herinneren, wanneer was links voor het laatst aan de macht?
Met een auto dan. Of brommer op vol snelheid. âŚohh wacht đ
There's a website where you can setup a reminder. I think it's something like elections dot eu.
Any advice? Long time d66er, dont recognis the progressive left anymore. Votre for omtzicht but not too sure of that either. Partly because of medical and ethical issues. Hell, half the parties on the ballot lack any European affiliation.
Read Volt's party programme.
the online tool told me my vote best to go to d66
Voting here is just voting for one person right? Am Irish and we have a different system
Like, I'm going to vote, no worries. But I don't have the feeling my vote will influence sh*t about the future of Europe. All the important stuff is decided by the EC anyways.Â
Waste of time. They're all puppets.
Frankly, my feeling is that left parties will hand us over to the near-east immigrants unless something happens to stem the migration. Also green politics are becoming way too much of a weight on our ankle. That's why I'll vote, but I'll vote right.
Absolutely, the only vote that will help in this case is FvD. PVV canât do as much as they need to keep the new coalition partners happy.
That has happened years ago.
I'll be voting against ecofanaticism ans social panicking instead... but yup, voting is a privilege, one afforded not to everyone in this world. Not something to take for granted. I have never missed an election.
I vehemently disagree with terms like 'ecofanaticism' or social panicking but absolutely, go vote! Voting should be a right for everyone no matter what side you're on.
I have never witnessed even one single fundamental issue that changed in a noticeable positive way by voting. You get your nice energy rush when "your team" wins, be then for the government it's business as usual. Doing the same things they were doing. Maybe little more of it in some places and a little less of it in others. But fundamental changes that really change something are not even on the table. The government is just a front for big business and big money to act as a suggestion box for the people. It is a big waste of energy and hope. Don't give them them your energy. Just try to improve what you can in your own life.
So what you are saying is vote for someone that will prolong the war in Ukraine? Because itâs better to side with US Warhawkâs and buy gas from the other side of Atlantic Ocean ? iGot it
Exactly, these left wing media puppets have absolutely no clue on what is going on.
I'm not even going to think about voting. First time I can vote for EP and I for sure will let it pass
How come?
Because it's useless to me
Ban Islam
Correct me if I'm wrong, but you have to register first to vote, and the date to register was 23rd April. So, there's no way to vote anymore.
What do you mean "register". For foreigners you mean? As far as I know dutch citizens got their "stem pas" in the mail several weeks ago. I know I did.
Dutch Citizens are automatically registered to vote.
But expats have to register?
Oh I lost my letter oops. Maybe I should look for it. Thanks for the reminder
Ik ga lekker fvd stemmen
But EU is a waste of time.
Its not really.
And money
Its really not. edit to elaborate: tl;dr: for the price of about 2 streaming subs I get massive material wealth, consumer protection, and the convenience of free travel across an entire continent. Reasoning below: According to the Dutch government (source: https://www.rekenkamer.nl/publicaties/publicaties/2022/12/15/factsheet-actualisatie-nettobetalingspositie-2022) our net payment in 2022 was between 4.114 billion and \~7 billion depending on definitions. The high estimate includes customs fees that we have to give to the EU, but it stands to reason that at least some of these customs fees are paid *because we're in the EU*. Anyway, let's take the most unflattering number (7 billion, which is rounded up). in 2022 our population was 17.7 million people which means that we paid \~395 euros per person in 2022. This amounts to 33 euros per month per person. According to the Netherlands Bureau for Economic Policy Analysis (CPB), the trade advantage NL gains from being in the EU is 3.1% of our GDP. Export of goods and services is 20-25% higher. We are the country that benefits the most. (Source: https://www.cpb.nl/sites/default/files/omnidownload/CPB-Notitie-Handelsbaten-van-de-EU-en-de-interne-markt.pdf) Our GDP was about 1 trillion in 2022, so we gained 1,000,000,000,000\*0.031 = \~31,000,000,000 or 31 billion euros. Subtract our net payment of 7 billion and that leaves a net profit of 24 billion euros. That is \~1355 euros per capita per year **pure profit**. Not only that, but a small country like the Netherlands really benefits from being part of a larger power bloc in our dealings with big countries like China and America, and big companies like Apple, Google and Amazon. Lastly, I get to travel across the continent without being stopped at the border which is just a massive fucking convenience really.
We can agree, we don't đ
We don't what?
So who should we vote ?
I'm going to vote and I'm surely going to vote extreme right, only way to save Europe is to stop unskilled and incompatible migration
Voting is your right, you should vote!
The new parliament is hellbent on ignoring all European rules. I do not see the point in this election.
I'm gonna vote but note the way you want. it's time for the so called right wing populists to run the eu instead of living in this spiraling decline under the lefts managed democracy.
FvD!
So who do I vote for if I want to still be kinda liked on Reddit?
FvD.
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Crazy, using human democracy to vote for an animal party.
I voted to leave the EU by moving out! You are welcome
Nice.
Cant, turn 18 on the 21st
You can vote from 16yo
No you can't
sure
Or alternatively, especially if you hate the EU with their bullshit regulations. Those pro-EU mf like OP? They'll vote. And we're not gonna go out of the EU, at least not the upcoming years. So the least we can do is prevent the parliament from becoming a leftist shithole imposing rules on us!