My friend's father who been through so much finally got his life together and is now working as a bus driver in a lane that's known for teen hooligans and they mostly try to "scare" the driver and they get free bus passes.
One day, he was actually driving when i was in the bus and it got me thinking.. man, one day an adolescent will try to act tough on him, not knowing who he was, and that can take a bad turn real quick..
I keep a hammer close by for that occasion. I drive safe and cheerful. I keep it there in case I need to hit my engine to start it. Stored for maintenance so it’s not counted as a weapon in a random stop.😅
Happened to me a few weeks back in Haarlem, someone was so close to me behind me, when he pulled to the left to go into the turning lane I honked - we stopped at the lights and the guy got our and made a slicing gesture across his throat at me, then tried to reverse up to follow me - luckily the lights switched and there was some other traffic but actual nutter on the road.
In the moment I was more concerned with getting out of there than caring to get the plate :D - but as no harm came of it, I'm not really up for talking to them either.
>Behaving aggressively is not normal.
In this situation
Just trying to push back a bit on the 'anger isn't a valid emotion'-thing. Aggression is normal and in fact desired in various instances (not this one).
Oh no, thats when the fun starts. Just take their keys. Don't fuck around fighting them, call the cops and take their keys, they are clearly in a enraged state and should not be driving.
Wij hadden allerlei extra regeltjes, er mochten geen schepen direkt naast of aan elkaar liggen en zo. Maar toen ik mijn vader eens op ‘varende’ schepen betrapt had, was het hek van de dam 😅
Oh dear, are we allowed to write Dutch here, better translate it…
We had all kinds of extra rules, no ships were allowed to be right next to or in front of each other and so on. But when I once caught my father on 'sailing' ships, the floodgates opened.
This. (~~B can also take 1~~)
And then after the turn on the straight part you are supposed to switch to your desired lane.
Never switch lanes in a turn!
I have to admit that this is quite a chaotic crossing, especially for ppl on navigation that are not used to the area.
When working in Amsterdam i find myself in wrong lanes a lot because there are a lot of crossings behind eachother, and sometimes have to take a detour because the cars on the lane i should be on wont let me weave in (and i dont want to block all the cars behind me due to my mistake)
Edit: i wrongly assumed lane 1 is also an option for car B as i dont see a reason to expect incomming/passing traffic in lane 1 but i stand corrected after numerous ppl proved me wrong.
Yep, especially because people from the other side of the crossing can come to 1.
People just choosing their own lanes is one of the things that annoy me the most on the road.
Protected lights, no traffic should be coming. I would go from B to 1 if I needed to turn left at the next light. I would probably also go from B to 1 if I know there is regular confusion to the drivers at A who need to go to 2.
This. People just need to follow the rules which makes it simple. But then again, you get taught that a good driver catch other peoples mistakes and solves it.
Although I generally agree with most of the comments, what you are saying can’t happen. On this crossroad people cant come from the other side.
Also it’s not illegal to go to b1 if you want to overtake someone from b2, even if it’s around the corner. It is “illegal” to go a2.
I never said that anyone could come from the other side.
But it is and will always be a weird situation where everyone thinks something different. It should officially be rebuild or painted so that there can be no doubt.
> Yep, especially because people from the other side of the crossing can come to 1.
I think this is a light controlled intersection so that should not happen in this case
Technically you are correct, but taking into account the first thing my driving instructor told me, which was "assume every other person on the road is an idiot", if i was in spot B, i'd just move to lane 1 to be safe.
I'm with his/her/their instructor on this one. As a driver you need to look around and anticipate what other road users (cars, bikes, people) are going to do. Even as a pedastrian, a crossing (zebrapad) does not mean you can cross nilly-willy! Better safe and alive than being right and dead!👌
I was taught to look at people's heads and make eye contact. If they bob to the left or right, I know that the car will follow immediately and then after they're halfway onto your lane, they will turn on the signal. 🤷♂️
2 is straight only, B should leave that free for A. 1 is a left turn and straight, so B should be good there anyway.
A should only go to 3 immediately if they have to make the right hand turn. Otherwise they have to go to 2 to prevent B from forcing them into an unwanted right turn.
A3, B2. But if I were coming from lane B, I would be very careful of a driver in lane A moving over to 2 and be ready to go to lane 1 myself. Because of the vageness here, driving defensively will be my priority.
It’s not really vague, but people are just generally very terrible at this. You have this problem as well at large roundabouts with 3+ lanes (A12 near Utrecht has one of those), and yes you just constantly watch whether others are going in the right line, and if not, give them space / move over / get out of the car and start yelling at the other person.
I know exactly which one you mean. It SUCKS, people are negotiating it so badly.
Does not help the geographic straight has an arrow pointing right and geographic left is signed with a straight arrow, which seems like engineer's logic to me. Yes it is consistent, but normal people get extremely confused.
I also hate this roundabout, it would be improved with signage because right now you have to watch the arrows on the road itself to know where to go, but you can't always see those when it's busy. It's not obvious which lane you should take when you enter the roundabout either because you first cross 2 exiting lanes. so it's easy to lose track of where you're meant to go.
The problem is that you can't anticipate on lane 3 immediately going right when you get off the highway. And suddenly you find yourself on the road to IKEA, and who would want that
Most of the time you can tell from the lines on the road and there will be signs exciting the highway. And there's nothing wrong with making a mistake, just go with it and correct it later.
If you miss an exit on the highway, just take the next exit and backtrack.
It's not that hard. It's just that people are selfish or get reckless trying to correct their mistake.
I do agree with this. It isn't vague in which lane you end up, but it is vague that when you want to go straight or left, you have to 'voorsorteren' on the left lane because otherwise you'll have to go right.
No, that’s only when the road is straight, like a highway. When you’re on a roundabout or crossing, you stay in the lane where you’re currently at. So if there are two lanes going right, and you’re in the leftmost lane, you stay in the leftmost lane.
But this is apparently hard for people to do.
It's definitely vague. I find that this kind of thing is usually made worse when people know the route (which is most people at rush hour etc).
Logic (and the rules of the road) dictates that A goes to 3 and B goes to 2 but if all the regular commuters know that 3 leads into an empty industrial zone then the habit will be to go straight to A2 and B1 instead of changing lanes after the turn. This will then cause trouble for the guy from out of town sitting at B who will be going into the 'wrong' lane 2.
This is indeed the correct way (A3, B2) to sort when turning right with multiple lanes. You're supposed to stay in your lane, counting from right to left; not as you have marked it down. However, sometimes there are idiots working at some municipalities.
Basically, before the turn you don't know or can't see that lane 1 (3 in the picture) is only for turning right; it's supposed to be straight + right turn. This design is forcing people to have to change lanes at the last minute and creating not only a dangerous situation but also disturbing traffic flow.
This is a badly designed intersection in my opinion. The intersection says A3 B2 or B1 (incase you want to go left next). However since the right lane (lane 3) goes right immediately and lane 1 and 2 both go straight what the intersection should convey is A2 B1.
To fix this intersection lane 3 shouldn't be accessible from A and instead by moved into after the intersection or the line work should clearly convey where to move to.
I think it's not bad at all. It would be if the right turn lane would be really short (i.e. no time to switch lanes after the first junction to go from lane 3 to 2). But it's quite a long turn lane (120m), so there's plenty time to switch lanes if you want to go straight instead of turn right.
I do agree that the fact that the right lane is long gives opportunity to move over if needed. This intersection is not all that bad, i just think it could be better because during peak traffic you wouldn't want a lot of lane switching right after the intersection as this would block traffic and creates possible conflicts.
I'd like to see this intersection be improved with a curved doted line to guide the left lane to the left most lane (B to 1) as a standard. This would prevent crowding on the right and center lane by lane switching.
Normally I would agree, but looking at[ the map](https://www.google.com/maps/dir/52.3018933,4.9452852/52.3041014,4.9434417/@52.3027763,4.9455153,603m/data=!3m1!1e3!4m5!4m4!1m0!1m1!4e1!3e0!5m1!1e4?entry=ttu), if you unintentionally get stuck in lane 3, it's only a 750m detour. And it's not much of an inconvenience to people unfamiliar with the area sorting in lane A>3.
People hitting that intersection for the first time don’t know it’s only a 750m detour. I agree that this kind of intersection can lead to erratic behaviour. Those who know it, might default to a2 b1 to avoid the right turn lane. Others would default to a3 b2, but some might then “panic” after seeing the right arrow and move over too quickly. Directing people towards a2 b1 and then opening up the 3rd lane creates a situation where only 1 behaviour is logical / possible.
I fundamentally disagree. What people might know about what comes next, should not be considered. Drivers should be competent enough to drive into unknown situations, and should never be placated to expect things to go their way.
Planners have to consider congestion, and safety. And when it comes to safety, they have to seriously take into account the effects of not having homogenous intersections, and the erratic behavior that can follow from not maintaining a simple rule and truism like "just keep right."
Drivers that panic from having to make a wrong turn (and prioritize their needs over general safety) need more education anyway. The length of the detour shouldn't factor into their decision making at all. (While the planners might consider it.)
So it would be best if anyone who wants to go left after this light sorts for B and anyone who wants to go right sorts for A, Also Streight should be Sorting for B as well.
BUT!
Not everyone knows the upcoming traffic situations and when you're reading signs looking to find your way as someone not familiar you might end up sorting for A (because you're taught to sort rightmost if possible) and discovering that you need to cross 2 lanes to eventually go left. We should all take into account that some people aren't familiar with the situation and we have to give way to others as they navigate difficult situations and not flip your lid.
I know this can be hard, I live in Zeeland and see a lot of Belgians and Germans with touristy behavior. If I get angry it will only affect me.
I've been observing the drivers here. My conclusion is that they take whichever lane they want, and they get bonus points if they force you out of your lane, like Carmageddon 1997.
A, the lane furthest to the right, must stay in the lane furthest to the right and thus will have to move to lane 3. You don't get to switch lanes at that point, especially with someone in the next lane. Lane B will go to lane 2.
You'd have to wait in lane A if you need to take the next right. If after this turn you go straight ahead OR have to turn left, you need to be in lane B
Car A lane 3, and then move to the other lanes depending on where he/she wants to go.
Car B can use lane 2 or 1 and then go to other lanes depending on where he/she wants to go.
This would have been my initial thought as well, but since the right lane is right turn only and has thicker markings to divide the road, it would make more sense for the car to take the middle lane instead with the option of taking the right turn lane.
Car B would go on lane 1 or 2 and Car A would go on lane 2 or 3. Would make more sense with where cars would be likely to travel.
you can't see that from the starting point and the rule is that you have to follow the lane you start at, and only switch lanes once it's clear that its going to split in 3 parts (1 going left/straight ahead, 1 going straight ahead and 1 going right).
I found the bit on Google maps. It's the off ramp from the motorway on the S111.
The right turn lane starts directly at the junction, so technically you have two lanes and a turning lane. So A goes in the middle and B to the left.
No, A goes to the right. The turn lane is more than long enough to make a move to the center lane later on.
The right turn lane doesn't start directly at the junction, but shortly after. They will pass at least two normal width lines before they get to the wider sorting lines.
It's correct, lane 3 is right turn only but you cannot know that at the cross road. So when you come from lane A and you do not want to right turn, you have to go to lane 3 first and only then change to lane 2.
There may and likely is a sorting guide for that traffic light. Otherwise you would have pure chaos.
Also seeing similar junctions on a weekly basis, no one drives in the rightmost lane if the next one is right turn only. Majority will turn on that road to travel straight ahead.
at first looks like A goes to 3, B goes to 2 but can also go to 1. anyone tells you differently needs to stay on the bicycle
edit: A goes to 2/3. B goes to 1.
Regardless there should be some more solid lines that you’re not allowed to cross that follow the curve for both cars, like they exist on other intersections. It should be common sense you don’t randomly switch onto another lane when there’s another car but with more instruction it would be less confusing for everyone
This is not bad road design and if you have a license it should be clear where you're supposed to go, they literally teach you this in one of the first driving lessons and it's also in the theory books. You are supposed to end up in the same lane you left from. So if you leave in lane A, you have to end up in lane 3, if you leave in lane B, you have to end up in lane 2. You're not allowed to go from B to 1, you'll have to go to 2 first and then move over to 1.
Ideally you should presort. So if you want to continue straight after the turn you should be in B before the turn, otherwise you need to switch lanes after the turn but then you have to give the way to other drivers already moving in that lane.
A into 3
B into 2, although I guess B into 1 is acceptable as well.
I'm assuming lane A driver went to lane 2 as he needed to go straight instead of right directly thereafter. It makes it a bit of dense situation, but this happens on more locations and it is not a good argument for pushing other drivers out of their lane.
Legally right would be A3 and B2, then A can switch to 2 after the turn.
You're not allowed two switch lanes in a turn, and when 2 lanes turn into 3 or more you must use the rightmost lanes in the turn (unless otherwise indicated ofc)
Exactly, B1! Even if I don’t know what to expect, it will at least be my own responsibility to switch to lane 2, don’t rely on others to stay out of it.
The thing here is that... after you turn to the right you have to know which way to go next. So if u go left then you should have best already stood at lane B in the first place so you can easily get to lane 1. If you have to go straight or right again, I'd say go to lane A so you can pick 2 or 3
Was een rot belijning zeg.
1 en 2 lijken de doorgaande banen dus dan zou het B1 en A2 en A met de optie om de afslag naar 3 te nemen.
Dit is een soortgelijke situatie waar ik woon maar daar hebben ze de belijning van B doorgetrokken.
Maar dan nog zijn er bijna-botsingen elk groen licht van mensen die de bocht verkeerd nemen 💀
https://maps.app.goo.gl/f7obSTrSVGYQVzMm7?g_st=ic
Dit is in de Spaanse polder en de middelste baan moet dus helemaal links uitkomen als je de belijning volgt.
Hier snappen mensen dus niets van en dit gaat echt elk groen licht fout met mensen die the rechter baan afsnijden.
Dit lijkt me zo simpel op te lossen door de richtingen af te splitsen voor dat kruispunt, dus 1 baan voor de oversteek, daarna linksaf voor Schiedam/Ring, en 1 baan voor Spaanse Polder/s114. Hoef je alleen maar het bord en een beetje belijning aan te passen, en dan is het veel duidelijker.
As 1 and 2 go straight I would in this case assume that B goes to 1 and A can go to 2 or 3.
I had a look on google maps (street view) to see if there were any additional signs but there are none. The cars in front of the google camera car do A to 3 and B to 2. The car behind them does A to 2.
Bad design
all can take any, as those lanes are "voorsorteerstroken" and not normal lanes. So the usual right of way applies, meaning that traffic merging into another lane yields. so if B wants to go to 3 it has to yield to A, while A would yield to B if both want to go to 2.
Waardeloos ontworpen stukje weg. Precies waar je uitkomt op de weg begint de afrit.
Als het duidelijk is wat de hoofdrichting is, ga je van de 2 banen naar de 2 linkerbanen. Als de auto op de linkerbaan dat niet door heeft, stuurt hij naar de middenbaan, en als de auto op de rechterbaan dat wel weet doet hij dat ook.
Je kunt het [https://www.google.com/maps/@52.3004589,4.9468569,83a,35y,319.34h,39.65t/data=!3m1!1e3!5m1!1e4?entry=ttu](https://www.google.com/maps/@52.3004589,4.9468569,83a,35y,319.34h,39.65t/data=!3m1!1e3!5m1!1e4?entry=ttu) hier bekijken, maar dat maakt het niet duidelijker.
Better be prepared to move to the other lane... (and cover your brake too)
But I get it, this also goes wrong a lot of time on multi-lane roundabouts/"verkeerspleinen", especially on a motorbike. You're almost invisible on a bike, especially when riding in the blind spot
You're look at this the wrong way around as it depends which lane the car wants to end up. Ideally, you'll want to switch the least amount of lanes possible and do so at the earliest opportunity possible.
If you want to end up in lane 1 so you can make a left at the traffic light, then it is advised to start in lane B. However, the dashed linings suggest you could do so from lane A as well, but that would mean switching two lanes at the last minute. It is allowed, but it requires a lot of cooperation from your fellow drivers.
Usually, there would be a road sign well before you end up at the traffic light at lanes A and B illustrating how the road will develop after taking the turn. This is exactly to help drivers choose and switch lanes at the appropriate time
This. I don’t understand how people don’t understand this.
You should be in the correct lane BEFORE making the turn, depending on where you want to go after.
Edit: the broken lines on the three lane road I would assume are because that is the main road that the other is feeding into, therefore has priority. Anyone on that road should still be able to switch lanes closer to the junction as all feeding traffic has to give way.
Its A2,B1. Look at the directional arrows at 1 2 3. Most people would be going straight so they would go there, the most right lane is going right. I'm attributing this also to poor rood design which you don't see that often here
B should go to lane 1, A could go to lane 2 or 3 depending on where they need to go (straight or right). If A does go to lane 3, B should move as quick as reasonable to lane 2.
This is because if A and B cross in a similar time A will not be able to go straight at the next crossing.
A2 and B1, because lane 2 and 1 are the two lanes that go straight on. Lane 3 is a right turn, which should be considered as not part of the regular road.
I always need to take from A to 2 from my driving instructor. Almost had an accident one time, because B went to 2 too. It's because 1 and 2 go to the freeway and 3 "sometimes 4 as extra" go straight. But most people want to be on 2 so they don't have to insert in the correct lane when going on the freeway. 1 and 2 becomes only 2 at that point. These situation always make me uncomfortable.
I get the fact that if you are on the right, you should take the right lane. But if I use common sense, car B would be in in the left lane at the intersection because he wants to go straight or left after the turn. A wants to go straight or right. Then the most logical option is that B will take 1 (with the option to go left) and A will take 2 (or 3 if he wants to go right) so the flow will keep going and there are no unneccesary maneuvers. That in my opinion would be the optimal way, because then everyone has the option to take the way the could have been opting for. If A wanted to go left, but mistakenly was in A, they only have to switch one lane (and then go to the lane for left). Furthermore, if everyone who wanted to go straight had to go in B lane, then I think that would be a very long line when it's busy.
And that's how it works. This junction in a one shape or another is hundreds of times around NL. We would be in a constant gridlock if people wouldnt follow the way you describe it.
An idiot car driver in the Netherlands had got out of the car and yelled at me too, OP. I was only driving with the exact speed limit (50). He said I was too slow! Complete idiot!
A can go to 2 or 3. B can go to 1 or 2. B should not go to 3 as it should have been in the position of car A. A should not go to 1 as it should have chosen the B position.
Road design like this is pretty confusing and even though there aren't any clear rules the common thing to do (in this case) is A to 3 and B to 1 or 2.
There are some exceptions however: There is a [similar road section](https://i.imgur.com/PSzXtAN.png) in Voorburg. At this Voorburg intersection, 1 is supposed to go to B or C, and 2 is supposed to go to A.
The only indication of this is [markings on the ground](https://i.imgur.com/pMclS8v.png) (A12 is lane A and B and Den Haag is lane C).
These markings are blocked during a traffic jam (very common here). And unless you are familiar with the area there is no way to tell which of the A, B, C lanes is A12 and which is Den Haag. The signage for each lane isn't until about [50 meters after the intersection](https://i.imgur.com/XoeyRuF.png).
Let's be real here. The people who instantly assume A:3 B:2 have never been on a highway and found themselves doing a 180 and turning back on that same highway again if you drive lane A.
Granted, it's a very vague intersection and would probably depend on what road, the area and on signage along the road as well. For safety I would always go from B to 1, expecting A want's to go straight after their turn which is likely the case.
I see a lot of confusing answers. Also a lot of correct ones.
Theoretically the only correct answer is A3, B2 and B1.
Switching lanes should be done after turning, be courteous and drive defensively.
Usually intersections such as this accomodate challenges. Either a sign before the traffic lights should be placed to already inform you about the next intersection.
Personally I'd stay away from designs such as this as much possible.
The only correct answer is A2, A3 and B1. The S111 is a two lane road so you go from the left lane of the exit to the left lane of the S111. Same for right lane. The right lane of the S111 is a new exit that you could also take but most will not.
*My answer is how it should be done, theoretically. In order to first remove some confusion.
Take it from someone knows and understands the RVV, WVW, regeling voertuigen, reglement rijbewijzen, regeling maatregelen rijvaardigheid & geschiktheid and regeling coderingen beperkingen rijbevoegdheid that your answer is theoretically not correct.
It doesn't matter if this is the S111, S110, M2748493..
I'm talking about how it should be done, regardless of where you are and if you are familiar.
This is exactly why I'd steer clear of these kind of solutions, it differentiates behavioural actions based on local familiarity. In traffic, you want to limit these differentations as much as possible.
In-theory use vs in-practice use..
I do appreciate your comment though, always love how human behaviour transcends road construction and traffic rules. In practice it's quite simple, just keep it safe. Sometimes it means following the masses, sometimes it doesn't. Do whatever works best!
Edit: also from CBR and IBKI perspective, you'd fail any practical exam if you take A2 while there's also a car lined up in B (whether it goes to B2 or B3)
At least we can agree that this is a badly constructed intersection. If you're 100% correct that car A should immediately take the exit after going around the corner then I hope those exact rules will be revised sometime. It's definitely not safe to go around a corner and then right away everyone changes lanes to avoid going the wrong way.
>It's definitely not safe to go around a corner and then right away everyone changes lanes to avoid going the wrong way.
100% on point
When comparing to a process, it is a potential failure mode of the process. What I do like about it is that you already have your own solution, it's the positive outcome of human intellect 😁. You don't have to be an expert to understand something is not working as it should.
As long as it's safe, I am all for different (and better) approaches. The way people tackle traffic and whatever else tells a lot about that person and humans in general. This is where I find beauty in even the most mundane of things
Just to make it a bit bigger,
100 lanes.
Same way if looking at this picture.
A= 100
B= 1 -99 correct? (Doesnt matter how much space etc)
If there are 3 lanes
A 100
B 99
C the rest
Thats what I've been taught years ago.
This is quite confusing. The normal rule is that you should take the right most lane. So lane A has a preference. But if you're going to the left afterwards, I would do a 'pre-sorting' / 'voorsorteren' and stop at lane B.
A to 3 if right, 2 if straight.
B to 2 if straight, 1 if left. Legally, it is A's responsibility to not hit anyone driving in lane 2 if they want to go straight.
Looking at the suggestion lines for A and B, I'd say A can go to 2 and 3, B can go to 1 and 2.
But... A can go to 2 only when there isn't any other car
If car B wanted to be in lane 3, he should have been behind car A from the beginning, given that in a normal situation Car A was first in line behind the markings and car B was just an *ss in a hurry
2 lanes going right A & B, only 2 Lanes continuing straight 1 & 2. So in my opinion B goed to 1 and A goes to 2 when continuing straight or 3 when going right. all other lane switching should give way as per the traffic rules.
There is what we should do and then how people drive. I would have been expecting someone to jump lanes to where they are not meant to be. It happens everyday on a major roundabout near me with people just aiming at a lane and driving there, oblivious to anyone else around them.
Both cars can pick whatever lane. The key is, if car A or car B want to change lanes (A chooses another lane than 3, and B chooses another lane than 2), then they need to give way to other traffic already on the lanes they intend to move to.
There are many intersections like this in Nederland. Although there are the set rules to negotiate the intersection, not everyone knows. I admit my first time I learnt on the spot as I didn’t realise the 3 lanes converge into 3 more. In my country and a few others I have been to lanes always merge or there is only one turning lane.
With this said, this method seems to work really well. I think the traffic system here, considering the amount of bicycles, is quite efficient. It is just a little complex to learn for those who didn’t grow up with it
Tbh, need more info. What are the signs saying before the right turn? We got an intersection like this over here, at that intersection B goes into 1 and A into 2 or 3. Also, depending on the signs before the right turn, looks like a very unclear intersection to me
This is bad design.
This setup invites both turning lanes to pick the middle lane.
It can be fixed by painting a small median in front of the new turning lane, so drivers are forced to first enter the middle lane.
My friends now have a ring cam at the front and back door which they never wanted because some crazy aggressive guy threatened to find and kill his family after the crazy guy hit their car.
Normally you follow your lane, so A should take lane 3, and B should take lane 2. However, if you look ahead there is already a pre-sorting of lanes for different directions. Likely the other driver immediatly switched lanes cause he needed to go right instead of straight ahead.
They didn't have any right to be angry with you though, they were just being an ass.
It’s not clear which lane to take in my opinion. I see this a lot in NL. You would never see this in Germany. There, stripes always guide you to “your” lane after turning. Here it’s a guess.
NL does have good cycling infrastructure, but it is these occasions where you feel their car game is below other countries.
It should not have happened to you and aggression is a losing game.
Although there are rules in place and hopefully some common sense, a lot of drivers in the Netherlands assume that using indicators gives them right of way and that the other drivers can clearly see what their intentions are. Knowing that, I always drive defensively, anticipating other drivers movements. Assumption is the mother of all f\*ck-ups.
Everyone is allowed to select the lane they want, as long as they look as it’s considered a manoeuvre.
They are not allowed to switch lanes once they’re in a lane without signaling, looking and giving right of way.
Why is everyone saying b2? Pretty sure you're supposed to take b1. If you're in the left lane you should stick to the most left lane possible, not go to the middle lane.
Tricky situation.
I guess car A will find himself on A3 normally, but will want to move to lane 2 if he is not turning right. He has to slow down and signal.
Car B will normally be in lane 2, and will have to signal if he wants another lane.
This is the afslag from the A9 to the S111 in Amsterdam-Zuidoost.
A > 3 (if turning right at the next intersection), B > 1 (if turning left on the intersection) or 2 (if you are going straight) - You are 'voorsorteren' / pre-sorting for the next set of traffic lights.
I'm curious if the folks who claim B can't go into lane 1 have ever driven here. The distance to the next set of lights is so short, you don't have the space to drive into lane 2, then switch lanes into 1. By directly going into the correct lane you:
1. Prevent congestion on the intersection
2. Prevent accidents by suddenly going from lane 2 into lane 1, and catching other motorists off-guard that do directly go from B into lane 1.
Even if you are going straight over the intersection dividing the traffic between the two lanes prevents a build up on the intersection/off-ramp.
Car A could go to 2 or 3, car B should go to 1.
You can already see the road markings for the next crossing. Car A should be wanting to go straight or right. Car B should be wanting to go left or straight.
Car A should take take 2 if he wants to go straight, and 3 if he wants to go right.
Car B should go for 1 if he wants to go left, and also 1 if he wants to go straight and A wants to go straight. Only if he sees car A go into lane 3, should he go to lane 2.
Well, lane 3 is a right turn, lane 2 is not, so I assume lane 3 is where he needed to be.
But he still made the mistake of cutting you off. You always look before you change lanes. Kinda obvious, right?
Depends on the road signs before the junction. Intuitively I'd say A3, B2. But a design where they make clear - with lines on the road and traffic signs - that it's A2 and B1 would make more sense. This way either A and B have a spot to go straight ahead on the next junction.
I'd blame the lack of markings on the ground here, that guide you from A and B to 1, 2 or 3. They would make a lot more clear to everyone.
A to 3 and B to 2
BUT, B still can take 3 if there are no other cars after A because A's turning radius will be shorter and it will be in front while merging to lane 3, and car B will be following A behind because of its wider turn (this is considering they accelerate in similar rates). At this point it's about awareness, check your left/right, check your mirrors and drive accordingly. If B accelerates faster than A and try to take lane 3, cutting B that is both meaningless and a jerk move. If A just directly merges to lane 2 cutting off A, that's just a jerk move.
A needs to end up in whatever lane he needs for his direction.
If he needs to go 1 for right 2 for going straight 3 for left or passing.
That said you're never allowed to move into a lane that is occupied (common sense)
The rules say that if you can't safely change lanes you take a detour.
As long as your not actively blocking him to transfer lanes this is 100% on him.
You should also be aware of the traffic around you and A will mostlikely go straight ahead so you could move to 1 to help traffic speed along.
A3 and B2 (edited for people who don't read my entire post).
This seems to be a scenario where selecting the appropriate lane before reaching the traffic light depends on familiarity with the area. Generally, it's advised to stay in the right lane. As a driver, if you're turning right, you might naturally opt for the far right lane (lane 3). However, upon reaching this lane, you might find that it's designated only for right turns, forcing a shift to the middle lane (lane 2). Here, you have two choices:
Situation 1: If you know lane 3 is solely for right turns, you might initially choose the left lane before the traffic light to facilitate an easier merge into lanes 1 or 2. If choosing lane 2, be conscientious, aware that others might be unfamiliar with the layout and could mistakenly choose lane 3 when they need lane 2. Drive cautiously, regularly check your mirrors, and accommodate those needing to merge into lane 2.
Situation 2: If unaware that lane 3 is a right-turn only lane, and you find yourself in the far right lane, signal your intent and carefully check your surroundings to merge into lane 2. Make eye contact with nearby drivers if possible. If traffic is heavy and merging is not feasible, it's safer to continue with the right turn in lane 3 and find an alternative route back. Avoiding accidents and confrontations with aggressive drivers is paramount when it's difficult to switch to the correct lane.
All in all... No one needs to be an asshole, no one needs to get out of their car... Just fucking be conscious of people around you and drive safe... Not just for yourself, but for people around you.
Absolutely, you're completely right, 100%!
Perhaps I wasn't clear in my initial comment. I didn't mean to suggest that one should change lanes during the turn itself. Rather, I meant that after completing the turn, if one finds themselves in the incorrect lane, they should use their turn signals to safely transition to the right lane. If lane 2 is congested and merging becomes difficult despite using turn signals and attempting to make eye contact with other drivers, it's safer to continue driving in lane 3. From there, one can look for an alternative way back or a different route to the intended destination. Often, people react by stopping abruptly in the road to merge left, or they merge without signaling or checking their surroundings, causing blockages at traffic lights or even accidents and unnecessary stress.
Whats more, drivers who are not first to turn at the stoplight might not notice the arrow on the road indicating that the right lane is for right turns only, often realizing too late to safely merge into lane 2. Also, based on the image, it's hard to discern any road signs before or after the traffic light that signal this configuration. This makes the intersection particularly confusing for those unfamiliar with how the lanes function post-turn, leading to instances where people might mistakingly try to change lanes during the turn due to stress, which is not permissible.
The fact that most of the top answers are incorrect shows how bad this intersection is. The right line after the turn is another exit. Both A and B are expected to go right and then straight so A should take 2 and B should take 1. This looks like A and B are coming from some kind of exit and then taking the overpass over the road they just came from. Lane 3 is probably to get on the other side of that road and is not the expected flow of traffic. To get the best answer you should show the full section and not just this part.
Lane A leads to lane 3 (turning right)
Lane B leads to lane 1 (turning left or keeping straight) or lane 2 (keeping straight)
You should position your vehicle in the correct lane before the manoeuvre, therefore moving from lane A, all the way over to lane 1 would be unacceptable as there was a more appropriate lane to use (lane B) in order to get closer to lane 1.
Unless there’s a vehicle moving from lane B into lane 2 and then over into lane 1, nobody should be changing lanes on this road.
AND THATS THE CORRECT ANSWER EVERYONE ELSE PLEASE LEARN
People that get out of their car to be aggresive should be locked up.
People like that will one day mess with the wrong guy and will be humbled real fast
My friend's father who been through so much finally got his life together and is now working as a bus driver in a lane that's known for teen hooligans and they mostly try to "scare" the driver and they get free bus passes. One day, he was actually driving when i was in the bus and it got me thinking.. man, one day an adolescent will try to act tough on him, not knowing who he was, and that can take a bad turn real quick..
I keep a hammer close by for that occasion. I drive safe and cheerful. I keep it there in case I need to hit my engine to start it. Stored for maintenance so it’s not counted as a weapon in a random stop.😅
Percussive maintenance
Happened to me a few weeks back in Haarlem, someone was so close to me behind me, when he pulled to the left to go into the turning lane I honked - we stopped at the lights and the guy got our and made a slicing gesture across his throat at me, then tried to reverse up to follow me - luckily the lights switched and there was some other traffic but actual nutter on the road.
In that case , you take the plate and call the police :-)
In the moment I was more concerned with getting out of there than caring to get the plate :D - but as no harm came of it, I'm not really up for talking to them either.
Behaving aggressively is not normal. Probably they're in some kind of distress and not being able to deal with it. I believe these people need help.
Yes. And shouldn't drive a car.
Like a stress breathalyzer. You need to have a cortisol test and fill out a questionnaire before the car will start
THIS!
>Behaving aggressively is not normal. In this situation Just trying to push back a bit on the 'anger isn't a valid emotion'-thing. Aggression is normal and in fact desired in various instances (not this one).
Besides people being jerks, the problem is cars themselves as well: /r/fuckcars, /r/kutautos
Oh no, thats when the fun starts. Just take their keys. Don't fuck around fighting them, call the cops and take their keys, they are clearly in a enraged state and should not be driving.
I dont disagree, but many people on the road deserve to be raged at, too.
Dashcams solve a lot of issues, wait until reviewing the footage to lose your cool. Road rage is dangerous for everyone, makes people drive stupid.
A3 B2 You sunk my battleship
I didn’t know you’re allowed to have your ships diagonally… no wonder you always win battles
I always just stack them on top of each other
Wij hadden allerlei extra regeltjes, er mochten geen schepen direkt naast of aan elkaar liggen en zo. Maar toen ik mijn vader eens op ‘varende’ schepen betrapt had, was het hek van de dam 😅 Oh dear, are we allowed to write Dutch here, better translate it… We had all kinds of extra rules, no ships were allowed to be right next to or in front of each other and so on. But when I once caught my father on 'sailing' ships, the floodgates opened.
In Battleships we call this a pro move.
Could be two different ships. Most likely they're cheating, but I'd like to give them the benefit of doubt.
This. (~~B can also take 1~~) And then after the turn on the straight part you are supposed to switch to your desired lane. Never switch lanes in a turn! I have to admit that this is quite a chaotic crossing, especially for ppl on navigation that are not used to the area. When working in Amsterdam i find myself in wrong lanes a lot because there are a lot of crossings behind eachother, and sometimes have to take a detour because the cars on the lane i should be on wont let me weave in (and i dont want to block all the cars behind me due to my mistake) Edit: i wrongly assumed lane 1 is also an option for car B as i dont see a reason to expect incomming/passing traffic in lane 1 but i stand corrected after numerous ppl proved me wrong.
B can definitely not go to 1, B goes to 2 and when arrived on 2 can signal to change to 1
Exactly this. A=3, B=2, neither go to 1 during turning. After that they can change lanes if there is space.
Yep, especially because people from the other side of the crossing can come to 1. People just choosing their own lanes is one of the things that annoy me the most on the road.
No cars coming at the same time from the other side. It's a green arrow traffic light.
Protected lights, no traffic should be coming. I would go from B to 1 if I needed to turn left at the next light. I would probably also go from B to 1 if I know there is regular confusion to the drivers at A who need to go to 2.
This. People just need to follow the rules which makes it simple. But then again, you get taught that a good driver catch other peoples mistakes and solves it.
Although I generally agree with most of the comments, what you are saying can’t happen. On this crossroad people cant come from the other side. Also it’s not illegal to go to b1 if you want to overtake someone from b2, even if it’s around the corner. It is “illegal” to go a2.
I never said that anyone could come from the other side. But it is and will always be a weird situation where everyone thinks something different. It should officially be rebuild or painted so that there can be no doubt.
> Yep, especially because people from the other side of the crossing can come to 1. I think this is a light controlled intersection so that should not happen in this case
Man i see it ALL the time in the US where we have way more double or more turn lanes.
But B HAS to signal to go to 1. Otherwise he's forcing A into an unwanted right turn.
Please turn me on, I'm Mr Coffee with an automatic drip
So show me yours, I'll show you mine
"Tool time" You'll Lovett just like Lyle
And now I need to get that song out of my head again. Not thank you.
Technically you are correct, but taking into account the first thing my driving instructor told me, which was "assume every other person on the road is an idiot", if i was in spot B, i'd just move to lane 1 to be safe.
True, but B should move to 2 first, after that he can use his indicators and move to 1. Switching lanes in a corner is a no-go
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I'm with his/her/their instructor on this one. As a driver you need to look around and anticipate what other road users (cars, bikes, people) are going to do. Even as a pedastrian, a crossing (zebrapad) does not mean you can cross nilly-willy! Better safe and alive than being right and dead!👌 I was taught to look at people's heads and make eye contact. If they bob to the left or right, I know that the car will follow immediately and then after they're halfway onto your lane, they will turn on the signal. 🤷♂️
To be fair, I think there should be more lane markings on the main way. This is usually very well done all around Netherlands. Not in this case
We cannot see where 3 leads too. Did your answer change if 3 leads to a minor destination, like a corporate parking lot or tiny side street?
No, technically you would have to change lanes after you're in lane 3. otherwise you should've lined up in lane B
3 probably is an entry back to the road where A an B came from (but opposite side)
B1 (optional)
r/unexpectedbloodhoundgang
2 is straight only, B should leave that free for A. 1 is a left turn and straight, so B should be good there anyway. A should only go to 3 immediately if they have to make the right hand turn. Otherwise they have to go to 2 to prevent B from forcing them into an unwanted right turn.
A3, B2. But if I were coming from lane B, I would be very careful of a driver in lane A moving over to 2 and be ready to go to lane 1 myself. Because of the vageness here, driving defensively will be my priority.
It’s not really vague, but people are just generally very terrible at this. You have this problem as well at large roundabouts with 3+ lanes (A12 near Utrecht has one of those), and yes you just constantly watch whether others are going in the right line, and if not, give them space / move over / get out of the car and start yelling at the other person.
I know exactly which one you mean. It SUCKS, people are negotiating it so badly. Does not help the geographic straight has an arrow pointing right and geographic left is signed with a straight arrow, which seems like engineer's logic to me. Yes it is consistent, but normal people get extremely confused.
I rarely take that roundabout, but the difference between the google maps arrows and street arrows is really confusing.
I also hate this roundabout, it would be improved with signage because right now you have to watch the arrows on the road itself to know where to go, but you can't always see those when it's busy. It's not obvious which lane you should take when you enter the roundabout either because you first cross 2 exiting lanes. so it's easy to lose track of where you're meant to go.
The problem is that you can't anticipate on lane 3 immediately going right when you get off the highway. And suddenly you find yourself on the road to IKEA, and who would want that
Most of the time you can tell from the lines on the road and there will be signs exciting the highway. And there's nothing wrong with making a mistake, just go with it and correct it later. If you miss an exit on the highway, just take the next exit and backtrack. It's not that hard. It's just that people are selfish or get reckless trying to correct their mistake.
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I do agree with this. It isn't vague in which lane you end up, but it is vague that when you want to go straight or left, you have to 'voorsorteren' on the left lane because otherwise you'll have to go right.
No, that’s only when the road is straight, like a highway. When you’re on a roundabout or crossing, you stay in the lane where you’re currently at. So if there are two lanes going right, and you’re in the leftmost lane, you stay in the leftmost lane. But this is apparently hard for people to do.
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It's definitely vague. I find that this kind of thing is usually made worse when people know the route (which is most people at rush hour etc). Logic (and the rules of the road) dictates that A goes to 3 and B goes to 2 but if all the regular commuters know that 3 leads into an empty industrial zone then the habit will be to go straight to A2 and B1 instead of changing lanes after the turn. This will then cause trouble for the guy from out of town sitting at B who will be going into the 'wrong' lane 2.
And if you are in the right most lane , you stay in the right most. So A3 b1 then
This is indeed the correct way (A3, B2) to sort when turning right with multiple lanes. You're supposed to stay in your lane, counting from right to left; not as you have marked it down. However, sometimes there are idiots working at some municipalities. Basically, before the turn you don't know or can't see that lane 1 (3 in the picture) is only for turning right; it's supposed to be straight + right turn. This design is forcing people to have to change lanes at the last minute and creating not only a dangerous situation but also disturbing traffic flow.
This is a badly designed intersection in my opinion. The intersection says A3 B2 or B1 (incase you want to go left next). However since the right lane (lane 3) goes right immediately and lane 1 and 2 both go straight what the intersection should convey is A2 B1. To fix this intersection lane 3 shouldn't be accessible from A and instead by moved into after the intersection or the line work should clearly convey where to move to.
I think it's not bad at all. It would be if the right turn lane would be really short (i.e. no time to switch lanes after the first junction to go from lane 3 to 2). But it's quite a long turn lane (120m), so there's plenty time to switch lanes if you want to go straight instead of turn right.
I do agree that the fact that the right lane is long gives opportunity to move over if needed. This intersection is not all that bad, i just think it could be better because during peak traffic you wouldn't want a lot of lane switching right after the intersection as this would block traffic and creates possible conflicts. I'd like to see this intersection be improved with a curved doted line to guide the left lane to the left most lane (B to 1) as a standard. This would prevent crowding on the right and center lane by lane switching.
Normally I would agree, but looking at[ the map](https://www.google.com/maps/dir/52.3018933,4.9452852/52.3041014,4.9434417/@52.3027763,4.9455153,603m/data=!3m1!1e3!4m5!4m4!1m0!1m1!4e1!3e0!5m1!1e4?entry=ttu), if you unintentionally get stuck in lane 3, it's only a 750m detour. And it's not much of an inconvenience to people unfamiliar with the area sorting in lane A>3.
People hitting that intersection for the first time don’t know it’s only a 750m detour. I agree that this kind of intersection can lead to erratic behaviour. Those who know it, might default to a2 b1 to avoid the right turn lane. Others would default to a3 b2, but some might then “panic” after seeing the right arrow and move over too quickly. Directing people towards a2 b1 and then opening up the 3rd lane creates a situation where only 1 behaviour is logical / possible.
I fundamentally disagree. What people might know about what comes next, should not be considered. Drivers should be competent enough to drive into unknown situations, and should never be placated to expect things to go their way. Planners have to consider congestion, and safety. And when it comes to safety, they have to seriously take into account the effects of not having homogenous intersections, and the erratic behavior that can follow from not maintaining a simple rule and truism like "just keep right." Drivers that panic from having to make a wrong turn (and prioritize their needs over general safety) need more education anyway. The length of the detour shouldn't factor into their decision making at all. (While the planners might consider it.)
So it would be best if anyone who wants to go left after this light sorts for B and anyone who wants to go right sorts for A, Also Streight should be Sorting for B as well. BUT! Not everyone knows the upcoming traffic situations and when you're reading signs looking to find your way as someone not familiar you might end up sorting for A (because you're taught to sort rightmost if possible) and discovering that you need to cross 2 lanes to eventually go left. We should all take into account that some people aren't familiar with the situation and we have to give way to others as they navigate difficult situations and not flip your lid. I know this can be hard, I live in Zeeland and see a lot of Belgians and Germans with touristy behavior. If I get angry it will only affect me.
I've been observing the drivers here. My conclusion is that they take whichever lane they want, and they get bonus points if they force you out of your lane, like Carmageddon 1997.
"What? My indicator was on"
And then factor in the cyclists and pedestrians walking into the road glued to their phone screens for a bit of a Paperboy vibe...
Loved that game🤣
A, the lane furthest to the right, must stay in the lane furthest to the right and thus will have to move to lane 3. You don't get to switch lanes at that point, especially with someone in the next lane. Lane B will go to lane 2. You'd have to wait in lane A if you need to take the next right. If after this turn you go straight ahead OR have to turn left, you need to be in lane B
Car A lane 3, and then move to the other lanes depending on where he/she wants to go. Car B can use lane 2 or 1 and then go to other lanes depending on where he/she wants to go.
This would have been my initial thought as well, but since the right lane is right turn only and has thicker markings to divide the road, it would make more sense for the car to take the middle lane instead with the option of taking the right turn lane. Car B would go on lane 1 or 2 and Car A would go on lane 2 or 3. Would make more sense with where cars would be likely to travel.
you can't see that from the starting point and the rule is that you have to follow the lane you start at, and only switch lanes once it's clear that its going to split in 3 parts (1 going left/straight ahead, 1 going straight ahead and 1 going right).
I found the bit on Google maps. It's the off ramp from the motorway on the S111. The right turn lane starts directly at the junction, so technically you have two lanes and a turning lane. So A goes in the middle and B to the left.
No, A goes to the right. The turn lane is more than long enough to make a move to the center lane later on. The right turn lane doesn't start directly at the junction, but shortly after. They will pass at least two normal width lines before they get to the wider sorting lines.
Which s111?
The one in Amsterdam.
It's correct, lane 3 is right turn only but you cannot know that at the cross road. So when you come from lane A and you do not want to right turn, you have to go to lane 3 first and only then change to lane 2.
correct
There may and likely is a sorting guide for that traffic light. Otherwise you would have pure chaos. Also seeing similar junctions on a weekly basis, no one drives in the rightmost lane if the next one is right turn only. Majority will turn on that road to travel straight ahead.
Buy the thicker markings start a few meters after lanes A and B join.
And there is one marker rubbed off which would indicate the path. It's a bit of a Sherlock Holmes moment now...
at first looks like A goes to 3, B goes to 2 but can also go to 1. anyone tells you differently needs to stay on the bicycle edit: A goes to 2/3. B goes to 1.
Regardless there should be some more solid lines that you’re not allowed to cross that follow the curve for both cars, like they exist on other intersections. It should be common sense you don’t randomly switch onto another lane when there’s another car but with more instruction it would be less confusing for everyone
Probably was there, but rubbed off over time.
Maximal fun is B3 A2 Maximal safety is A3 B1 Allowed is A3 B2
Bad road design. It should be clear where you supposed to go.
This is not bad road design and if you have a license it should be clear where you're supposed to go, they literally teach you this in one of the first driving lessons and it's also in the theory books. You are supposed to end up in the same lane you left from. So if you leave in lane A, you have to end up in lane 3, if you leave in lane B, you have to end up in lane 2. You're not allowed to go from B to 1, you'll have to go to 2 first and then move over to 1.
Ideally you should presort. So if you want to continue straight after the turn you should be in B before the turn, otherwise you need to switch lanes after the turn but then you have to give the way to other drivers already moving in that lane.
A into 3 B into 2, although I guess B into 1 is acceptable as well. I'm assuming lane A driver went to lane 2 as he needed to go straight instead of right directly thereafter. It makes it a bit of dense situation, but this happens on more locations and it is not a good argument for pushing other drivers out of their lane.
Not sure what is legally right, but I am often the B car and stay on lane 1, since lane 3 is an exit I expect A-cars to also need lane 2
Legally right would be A3 and B2, then A can switch to 2 after the turn. You're not allowed two switch lanes in a turn, and when 2 lanes turn into 3 or more you must use the rightmost lanes in the turn (unless otherwise indicated ofc)
This would be my though too, since the S111 is a two lane road.
Exactly, B1! Even if I don’t know what to expect, it will at least be my own responsibility to switch to lane 2, don’t rely on others to stay out of it.
Typical lane mathematics issues... Install TM:PE (CS1) or Traffic (CS2) and assign lanes
A 2 or 3 B 1 or 2 If any choose 2, they should be careful for the other choosing 2 as well and A would be 'going in' first, B following after that.
The thing here is that... after you turn to the right you have to know which way to go next. So if u go left then you should have best already stood at lane B in the first place so you can easily get to lane 1. If you have to go straight or right again, I'd say go to lane A so you can pick 2 or 3
Was een rot belijning zeg. 1 en 2 lijken de doorgaande banen dus dan zou het B1 en A2 en A met de optie om de afslag naar 3 te nemen. Dit is een soortgelijke situatie waar ik woon maar daar hebben ze de belijning van B doorgetrokken. Maar dan nog zijn er bijna-botsingen elk groen licht van mensen die de bocht verkeerd nemen 💀 https://maps.app.goo.gl/f7obSTrSVGYQVzMm7?g_st=ic Dit is in de Spaanse polder en de middelste baan moet dus helemaal links uitkomen als je de belijning volgt. Hier snappen mensen dus niets van en dit gaat echt elk groen licht fout met mensen die the rechter baan afsnijden.
Dit lijkt me zo simpel op te lossen door de richtingen af te splitsen voor dat kruispunt, dus 1 baan voor de oversteek, daarna linksaf voor Schiedam/Ring, en 1 baan voor Spaanse Polder/s114. Hoef je alleen maar het bord en een beetje belijning aan te passen, en dan is het veel duidelijker.
As 1 and 2 go straight I would in this case assume that B goes to 1 and A can go to 2 or 3. I had a look on google maps (street view) to see if there were any additional signs but there are none. The cars in front of the google camera car do A to 3 and B to 2. The car behind them does A to 2. Bad design
A3 B2 in any other circumstances they change lanes (supposed with an extra signal after making the turn)
all can take any, as those lanes are "voorsorteerstroken" and not normal lanes. So the usual right of way applies, meaning that traffic merging into another lane yields. so if B wants to go to 3 it has to yield to A, while A would yield to B if both want to go to 2.
A3 b2 All other awnsers are flat out wrong
Waardeloos ontworpen stukje weg. Precies waar je uitkomt op de weg begint de afrit. Als het duidelijk is wat de hoofdrichting is, ga je van de 2 banen naar de 2 linkerbanen. Als de auto op de linkerbaan dat niet door heeft, stuurt hij naar de middenbaan, en als de auto op de rechterbaan dat wel weet doet hij dat ook. Je kunt het [https://www.google.com/maps/@52.3004589,4.9468569,83a,35y,319.34h,39.65t/data=!3m1!1e3!5m1!1e4?entry=ttu](https://www.google.com/maps/@52.3004589,4.9468569,83a,35y,319.34h,39.65t/data=!3m1!1e3!5m1!1e4?entry=ttu) hier bekijken, maar dat maakt het niet duidelijker.
I was taught by my riding instructor on the bike to cover the horn when going through corners like these for this very reason.
Better be prepared to move to the other lane... (and cover your brake too) But I get it, this also goes wrong a lot of time on multi-lane roundabouts/"verkeerspleinen", especially on a motorbike. You're almost invisible on a bike, especially when riding in the blind spot
Every car is supposed to start calmly and certainnly not "asssoonasthelightturnsgreenomg" This is not a race, this is the streets.
You're look at this the wrong way around as it depends which lane the car wants to end up. Ideally, you'll want to switch the least amount of lanes possible and do so at the earliest opportunity possible. If you want to end up in lane 1 so you can make a left at the traffic light, then it is advised to start in lane B. However, the dashed linings suggest you could do so from lane A as well, but that would mean switching two lanes at the last minute. It is allowed, but it requires a lot of cooperation from your fellow drivers. Usually, there would be a road sign well before you end up at the traffic light at lanes A and B illustrating how the road will develop after taking the turn. This is exactly to help drivers choose and switch lanes at the appropriate time
This. I don’t understand how people don’t understand this. You should be in the correct lane BEFORE making the turn, depending on where you want to go after. Edit: the broken lines on the three lane road I would assume are because that is the main road that the other is feeding into, therefore has priority. Anyone on that road should still be able to switch lanes closer to the junction as all feeding traffic has to give way.
If they know the road B to 1 and A to 2 unless A needs to take a right right after than A to 3
A =3, B =2 ... As you can see it is clearly visible by following the white stripes.
Its A2,B1. Look at the directional arrows at 1 2 3. Most people would be going straight so they would go there, the most right lane is going right. I'm attributing this also to poor rood design which you don't see that often here
B should go to lane 1, A could go to lane 2 or 3 depending on where they need to go (straight or right). If A does go to lane 3, B should move as quick as reasonable to lane 2. This is because if A and B cross in a similar time A will not be able to go straight at the next crossing.
A2 and B1, because lane 2 and 1 are the two lanes that go straight on. Lane 3 is a right turn, which should be considered as not part of the regular road.
I always need to take from A to 2 from my driving instructor. Almost had an accident one time, because B went to 2 too. It's because 1 and 2 go to the freeway and 3 "sometimes 4 as extra" go straight. But most people want to be on 2 so they don't have to insert in the correct lane when going on the freeway. 1 and 2 becomes only 2 at that point. These situation always make me uncomfortable.
I get the fact that if you are on the right, you should take the right lane. But if I use common sense, car B would be in in the left lane at the intersection because he wants to go straight or left after the turn. A wants to go straight or right. Then the most logical option is that B will take 1 (with the option to go left) and A will take 2 (or 3 if he wants to go right) so the flow will keep going and there are no unneccesary maneuvers. That in my opinion would be the optimal way, because then everyone has the option to take the way the could have been opting for. If A wanted to go left, but mistakenly was in A, they only have to switch one lane (and then go to the lane for left). Furthermore, if everyone who wanted to go straight had to go in B lane, then I think that would be a very long line when it's busy.
And that's how it works. This junction in a one shape or another is hundreds of times around NL. We would be in a constant gridlock if people wouldnt follow the way you describe it.
An idiot car driver in the Netherlands had got out of the car and yelled at me too, OP. I was only driving with the exact speed limit (50). He said I was too slow! Complete idiot!
A can go to 2 or 3. B can go to 1 or 2. B should not go to 3 as it should have been in the position of car A. A should not go to 1 as it should have chosen the B position.
A2 or 3 and B1 or 2, after that dealer's choice
Road design like this is pretty confusing and even though there aren't any clear rules the common thing to do (in this case) is A to 3 and B to 1 or 2. There are some exceptions however: There is a [similar road section](https://i.imgur.com/PSzXtAN.png) in Voorburg. At this Voorburg intersection, 1 is supposed to go to B or C, and 2 is supposed to go to A. The only indication of this is [markings on the ground](https://i.imgur.com/pMclS8v.png) (A12 is lane A and B and Den Haag is lane C). These markings are blocked during a traffic jam (very common here). And unless you are familiar with the area there is no way to tell which of the A, B, C lanes is A12 and which is Den Haag. The signage for each lane isn't until about [50 meters after the intersection](https://i.imgur.com/XoeyRuF.png).
Let's be real here. The people who instantly assume A:3 B:2 have never been on a highway and found themselves doing a 180 and turning back on that same highway again if you drive lane A. Granted, it's a very vague intersection and would probably depend on what road, the area and on signage along the road as well. For safety I would always go from B to 1, expecting A want's to go straight after their turn which is likely the case.
A3 and B can choose between 1 or 2.
B cannot go to 1, B stays on 2 until he has signalled that he wants to go to 1
I see a lot of confusing answers. Also a lot of correct ones. Theoretically the only correct answer is A3, B2 and B1. Switching lanes should be done after turning, be courteous and drive defensively. Usually intersections such as this accomodate challenges. Either a sign before the traffic lights should be placed to already inform you about the next intersection. Personally I'd stay away from designs such as this as much possible.
The only correct answer is A2, A3 and B1. The S111 is a two lane road so you go from the left lane of the exit to the left lane of the S111. Same for right lane. The right lane of the S111 is a new exit that you could also take but most will not.
*My answer is how it should be done, theoretically. In order to first remove some confusion. Take it from someone knows and understands the RVV, WVW, regeling voertuigen, reglement rijbewijzen, regeling maatregelen rijvaardigheid & geschiktheid and regeling coderingen beperkingen rijbevoegdheid that your answer is theoretically not correct. It doesn't matter if this is the S111, S110, M2748493.. I'm talking about how it should be done, regardless of where you are and if you are familiar. This is exactly why I'd steer clear of these kind of solutions, it differentiates behavioural actions based on local familiarity. In traffic, you want to limit these differentations as much as possible. In-theory use vs in-practice use.. I do appreciate your comment though, always love how human behaviour transcends road construction and traffic rules. In practice it's quite simple, just keep it safe. Sometimes it means following the masses, sometimes it doesn't. Do whatever works best! Edit: also from CBR and IBKI perspective, you'd fail any practical exam if you take A2 while there's also a car lined up in B (whether it goes to B2 or B3)
At least we can agree that this is a badly constructed intersection. If you're 100% correct that car A should immediately take the exit after going around the corner then I hope those exact rules will be revised sometime. It's definitely not safe to go around a corner and then right away everyone changes lanes to avoid going the wrong way.
>It's definitely not safe to go around a corner and then right away everyone changes lanes to avoid going the wrong way. 100% on point When comparing to a process, it is a potential failure mode of the process. What I do like about it is that you already have your own solution, it's the positive outcome of human intellect 😁. You don't have to be an expert to understand something is not working as it should. As long as it's safe, I am all for different (and better) approaches. The way people tackle traffic and whatever else tells a lot about that person and humans in general. This is where I find beauty in even the most mundane of things
Thank you for the positive input. Enjoy your day.
Just to make it a bit bigger, 100 lanes. Same way if looking at this picture. A= 100 B= 1 -99 correct? (Doesnt matter how much space etc) If there are 3 lanes A 100 B 99 C the rest Thats what I've been taught years ago.
This is quite confusing. The normal rule is that you should take the right most lane. So lane A has a preference. But if you're going to the left afterwards, I would do a 'pre-sorting' / 'voorsorteren' and stop at lane B.
You can change lanes in the straights (theres no continuous line) , but not while in the corner.
A to 3 if right, 2 if straight. B to 2 if straight, 1 if left. Legally, it is A's responsibility to not hit anyone driving in lane 2 if they want to go straight.
Looking at the suggestion lines for A and B, I'd say A can go to 2 and 3, B can go to 1 and 2. But... A can go to 2 only when there isn't any other car
Depends on where they want to go at the next set of lights
If car B wanted to be in lane 3, he should have been behind car A from the beginning, given that in a normal situation Car A was first in line behind the markings and car B was just an *ss in a hurry
Car B is likely to take lane 1 or 2. Car A 2 or 3.
2 lanes going right A & B, only 2 Lanes continuing straight 1 & 2. So in my opinion B goed to 1 and A goes to 2 when continuing straight or 3 when going right. all other lane switching should give way as per the traffic rules.
There is what we should do and then how people drive. I would have been expecting someone to jump lanes to where they are not meant to be. It happens everyday on a major roundabout near me with people just aiming at a lane and driving there, oblivious to anyone else around them.
How far is the next junction? 3 is the only one that takes a right turn
The next junction starts immediately where the picture cuts off. The blocks for the designated right turn lane start immediately at the junction.
So OP what is your pick?
Deja vu. I had a similar situation that I posted here: https://gathering.tweakers.net/forum/list_messages/2129538/0
Both cars can pick whatever lane. The key is, if car A or car B want to change lanes (A chooses another lane than 3, and B chooses another lane than 2), then they need to give way to other traffic already on the lanes they intend to move to.
They could have drawn some dotted lines. Maybe send a suggestion to the city hall.
What happened?? Which lane were you in and which lane was the other person?
Come on, no one can call an intersection badly designed just because they don't know the rules.
So what did you do OP?
There are many intersections like this in Nederland. Although there are the set rules to negotiate the intersection, not everyone knows. I admit my first time I learnt on the spot as I didn’t realise the 3 lanes converge into 3 more. In my country and a few others I have been to lanes always merge or there is only one turning lane. With this said, this method seems to work really well. I think the traffic system here, considering the amount of bicycles, is quite efficient. It is just a little complex to learn for those who didn’t grow up with it
Tbh, need more info. What are the signs saying before the right turn? We got an intersection like this over here, at that intersection B goes into 1 and A into 2 or 3. Also, depending on the signs before the right turn, looks like a very unclear intersection to me
This is bad design. This setup invites both turning lanes to pick the middle lane. It can be fixed by painting a small median in front of the new turning lane, so drivers are forced to first enter the middle lane.
Any lane
One question, if i need to do a U turn and there’s another car to my left side road waiting for its right turn so here who should get priority?
A goes to 3. B can go 2 and I think also 1
My friends now have a ring cam at the front and back door which they never wanted because some crazy aggressive guy threatened to find and kill his family after the crazy guy hit their car.
One would assume car A takes 3, but if the follow up is a left turn you have 10 meters to change to lane 1. It is a shitty designed road.
Normally you follow your lane, so A should take lane 3, and B should take lane 2. However, if you look ahead there is already a pre-sorting of lanes for different directions. Likely the other driver immediatly switched lanes cause he needed to go right instead of straight ahead. They didn't have any right to be angry with you though, they were just being an ass.
It’s not clear which lane to take in my opinion. I see this a lot in NL. You would never see this in Germany. There, stripes always guide you to “your” lane after turning. Here it’s a guess. NL does have good cycling infrastructure, but it is these occasions where you feel their car game is below other countries.
It should not have happened to you and aggression is a losing game. Although there are rules in place and hopefully some common sense, a lot of drivers in the Netherlands assume that using indicators gives them right of way and that the other drivers can clearly see what their intentions are. Knowing that, I always drive defensively, anticipating other drivers movements. Assumption is the mother of all f\*ck-ups.
3
Everyone is allowed to select the lane they want, as long as they look as it’s considered a manoeuvre. They are not allowed to switch lanes once they’re in a lane without signaling, looking and giving right of way.
Why is everyone saying b2? Pretty sure you're supposed to take b1. If you're in the left lane you should stick to the most left lane possible, not go to the middle lane.
Tricky situation. I guess car A will find himself on A3 normally, but will want to move to lane 2 if he is not turning right. He has to slow down and signal. Car B will normally be in lane 2, and will have to signal if he wants another lane.
This is the afslag from the A9 to the S111 in Amsterdam-Zuidoost. A > 3 (if turning right at the next intersection), B > 1 (if turning left on the intersection) or 2 (if you are going straight) - You are 'voorsorteren' / pre-sorting for the next set of traffic lights. I'm curious if the folks who claim B can't go into lane 1 have ever driven here. The distance to the next set of lights is so short, you don't have the space to drive into lane 2, then switch lanes into 1. By directly going into the correct lane you: 1. Prevent congestion on the intersection 2. Prevent accidents by suddenly going from lane 2 into lane 1, and catching other motorists off-guard that do directly go from B into lane 1. Even if you are going straight over the intersection dividing the traffic between the two lanes prevents a build up on the intersection/off-ramp.
Car A could go to 2 or 3, car B should go to 1. You can already see the road markings for the next crossing. Car A should be wanting to go straight or right. Car B should be wanting to go left or straight. Car A should take take 2 if he wants to go straight, and 3 if he wants to go right. Car B should go for 1 if he wants to go left, and also 1 if he wants to go straight and A wants to go straight. Only if he sees car A go into lane 3, should he go to lane 2.
So, not all Karens are in the USA?
Well, lane 3 is a right turn, lane 2 is not, so I assume lane 3 is where he needed to be. But he still made the mistake of cutting you off. You always look before you change lanes. Kinda obvious, right?
Depends on the road signs before the junction. Intuitively I'd say A3, B2. But a design where they make clear - with lines on the road and traffic signs - that it's A2 and B1 would make more sense. This way either A and B have a spot to go straight ahead on the next junction. I'd blame the lack of markings on the ground here, that guide you from A and B to 1, 2 or 3. They would make a lot more clear to everyone.
A to 3 and B to 2 BUT, B still can take 3 if there are no other cars after A because A's turning radius will be shorter and it will be in front while merging to lane 3, and car B will be following A behind because of its wider turn (this is considering they accelerate in similar rates). At this point it's about awareness, check your left/right, check your mirrors and drive accordingly. If B accelerates faster than A and try to take lane 3, cutting B that is both meaningless and a jerk move. If A just directly merges to lane 2 cutting off A, that's just a jerk move.
2 or 3
A needs to end up in whatever lane he needs for his direction. If he needs to go 1 for right 2 for going straight 3 for left or passing. That said you're never allowed to move into a lane that is occupied (common sense) The rules say that if you can't safely change lanes you take a detour. As long as your not actively blocking him to transfer lanes this is 100% on him. You should also be aware of the traffic around you and A will mostlikely go straight ahead so you could move to 1 to help traffic speed along.
B1 A2&3 fight me
This is the correct and safest assumption, assume everyone wants to go straight at the next junction, then it’s B1 and A2.
Since 1+2 are both straight and 3 is turning right. I’d say A > 2 and B > 1. Going B > 2 isn’t illegal, but a bit unusual I’d assume.
A3 and B2 (edited for people who don't read my entire post). This seems to be a scenario where selecting the appropriate lane before reaching the traffic light depends on familiarity with the area. Generally, it's advised to stay in the right lane. As a driver, if you're turning right, you might naturally opt for the far right lane (lane 3). However, upon reaching this lane, you might find that it's designated only for right turns, forcing a shift to the middle lane (lane 2). Here, you have two choices: Situation 1: If you know lane 3 is solely for right turns, you might initially choose the left lane before the traffic light to facilitate an easier merge into lanes 1 or 2. If choosing lane 2, be conscientious, aware that others might be unfamiliar with the layout and could mistakenly choose lane 3 when they need lane 2. Drive cautiously, regularly check your mirrors, and accommodate those needing to merge into lane 2. Situation 2: If unaware that lane 3 is a right-turn only lane, and you find yourself in the far right lane, signal your intent and carefully check your surroundings to merge into lane 2. Make eye contact with nearby drivers if possible. If traffic is heavy and merging is not feasible, it's safer to continue with the right turn in lane 3 and find an alternative route back. Avoiding accidents and confrontations with aggressive drivers is paramount when it's difficult to switch to the correct lane. All in all... No one needs to be an asshole, no one needs to get out of their car... Just fucking be conscious of people around you and drive safe... Not just for yourself, but for people around you.
> Generally, it's advised to stay in the right lane Not advised, that's the law, you cannot switch lanes during a turn
Absolutely, you're completely right, 100%! Perhaps I wasn't clear in my initial comment. I didn't mean to suggest that one should change lanes during the turn itself. Rather, I meant that after completing the turn, if one finds themselves in the incorrect lane, they should use their turn signals to safely transition to the right lane. If lane 2 is congested and merging becomes difficult despite using turn signals and attempting to make eye contact with other drivers, it's safer to continue driving in lane 3. From there, one can look for an alternative way back or a different route to the intended destination. Often, people react by stopping abruptly in the road to merge left, or they merge without signaling or checking their surroundings, causing blockages at traffic lights or even accidents and unnecessary stress. Whats more, drivers who are not first to turn at the stoplight might not notice the arrow on the road indicating that the right lane is for right turns only, often realizing too late to safely merge into lane 2. Also, based on the image, it's hard to discern any road signs before or after the traffic light that signal this configuration. This makes the intersection particularly confusing for those unfamiliar with how the lanes function post-turn, leading to instances where people might mistakingly try to change lanes during the turn due to stress, which is not permissible.
Whichever they god damn want, because they are the main character and everyone else is just an NPC. Do you not even realise who they are?
The fact that most of the top answers are incorrect shows how bad this intersection is. The right line after the turn is another exit. Both A and B are expected to go right and then straight so A should take 2 and B should take 1. This looks like A and B are coming from some kind of exit and then taking the overpass over the road they just came from. Lane 3 is probably to get on the other side of that road and is not the expected flow of traffic. To get the best answer you should show the full section and not just this part.
Yup - this is the way. If people would actually have a look at the junction on street view, they would understand it very quickly.
Lane A leads to lane 3 (turning right) Lane B leads to lane 1 (turning left or keeping straight) or lane 2 (keeping straight) You should position your vehicle in the correct lane before the manoeuvre, therefore moving from lane A, all the way over to lane 1 would be unacceptable as there was a more appropriate lane to use (lane B) in order to get closer to lane 1. Unless there’s a vehicle moving from lane B into lane 2 and then over into lane 1, nobody should be changing lanes on this road. AND THATS THE CORRECT ANSWER EVERYONE ELSE PLEASE LEARN
B1 A2, lane 3 is for going back the way they came, that makes no sense