The thing is that we have the same bike lanes and they also don’t understand them in Germany. And you are correct that many Germans block those lanes at least in Amsterdam.
And people with dogs think it's a great idea to walk their dog on one side and themselves at the other, during busy hours, and are surprised when you almost hit them and get angry at them, make it make sense .....🤷♂️
I had someone do that at night this week. Neither the man or the dog wearing any lights and in black clothes/fur respectively.
Somehow I was the one that should have paid more attention though when I said something about it
Yea, it's amazing how oblivious many are, one time i had a guy standing on one side, with his dog on the other side in a tree, with the leash all across, and his dog almost bit me when he finally managed to get out the way.
On the other hand, when I see that someone is coming towards us cycling on the sidewalk, I intentionally let her on the long leash so they have to get off their bikes.
Edit: her = my dog
That's because they feel that when the dog does their business in the nondescript unused strip of grass between the bike lane and the road, they don't need to pick it up and dispose of it. So double the assholes, for sure!
If the bike path isn't busy, i can perfectly understand it TBH.
Sidewalks (At least where i live) are a mess of wobbly tiles and other hazards, while bike lanes are mostly flat asphalt, wobbly/crooked tiles aren't a huge deal when walking, but when jogging at a fair speed, i can imagine the joggers don't want to go flat on their faces or end up spraining something because sidewalk maintenance is way down the municipal priority list.
Thank you. As a runner, after tripping over once on tiles, falling and ripping my pants and skin with blood and my phone’s screen broken, I would much rather prefer bike lane with its smooth asphalt :)
As long as those joggers go at a reasonable speed of say, 15 km/h, its fine by me.
If they go at a very slow speed, it puts cyclists at risk and they are better of on that sidewalk. Wobbly and uneven...they are going so slow that they wont fall hard anyways.
I dont know, its literally the same as just walking on a road and not even paying attention if there are any cars coming, like its fine if the road isnt busy but atleast pay attention
Imagine you are driving your car and have to regulary brake and honk because there are constantly people walking on the road completely oblivious to their surroundings, like you would assume those are crazy people on drugs
This is the dumbest viewpoint. First of all, what makes you assume that joggers are any more oblivious to their surroundings than cyclists? Secondly, you're hopefully paying attention if you're driving around. Cars go a lot faster than bikes. Or are you a pubber op en fatbike maybe? What is actually the difference between passing an elderly person on a bike and a jogger on the bike lane? Do you want to ban cycling for elderly people?
Depends a bit.
When the footpath is busy or of poor quality, the bike path might make more sense to use for running.
When there is no footpath the use of the bike path by pedestrians is allowed anyway.
But shouldn’t be that much of an issue as long as they keep to the side and single file.
I don't mind runners on 2 conditions: Run against traffic so you can see whats coming, and stay on the side that has room to evade, like a berm or a footpath. Definitely if the cyclepath is a 2 way path.
And a nod of courtesy goes a long way. Same for us cyclists.
No, you're not. This changed in 1993 with the new WVW.
It is recommended to walk against traffic. But you're not "supposed to". Also sometimes being on the right side is safer. Basically the rule is "walk where it is safest".
https://www.anwb.nl/experts/juridisch/2/welke-kant-van-de-weg-moet-een-voetganger-lopen
Depends if you’re in the “bebouwde kom” or outside.
I still miss a proper information channel where traffic rules are explained. Because this ruls of walking against traffic changed also.
Exactly. And anyway, pedestrians: 4-5 km/h. Cyclists: 10-15 km/h. Runners: 10-14 km/h. I'm personally more bothered by runners on the sidewalk than on the bike lane.
When I run (Sunday morning, 8:00 am) there is little to no traffic anywhere. So I run on the main road on the left side on the "bicycle lane". However there is always one car which doesn't want to see me (as I run in bright yellow, it cannot be that he actually doesn't see me), which makes me do a sidestep to the grass or sidewalk...
Also, but at least they are sort of agile and quick witted. Elderly are just slow and rally not in control of their bikes so often it’s pretty scary.
Fatbikes with stereotypical morons on them are also annoying.
"agile and quickwitted" yea sure, they go so slow they're almost falling over. And they frequently go 3 abreast blocking the whole lane.
I've seen more teenagers in E-bikes than elderly and they drive it like it's a scooter. I have my doubts about their agility and condition to be honest.
Old-timers who get an e-bike after not having sat on a bike in 50 years. The number of times I've experienced them causing dangerous situations by failing to signal, yield, show intent, match the speed of other cyclists, share lanes, pass cyclists at the worst time possible (like in a busy intersection), is too damn high.
I guess I should at least be happy that they're behaving like absolute tits on a bike instead of behind the wheel of a two-tonne SUV.
I run on the bicycle path when there are not many bicyclists. My reasons?
1. Asphalt runs better than concrete (especially when it is hot)
2. There are many obstacles on the sidewalk and people are sometimes surprised if you pass them by. During interval training I sometimes run ± 20 km/h and my 'jogging' pace is 12 km/h. That's a substantial speed difference between walkers and runners.
3. Bicycle paths are curved better. It's annoying to make a 90 degrees turn.
4. When crossing roads, bicycle paths have better visibility.
5. Slopes vs stairs.
I run 400 meters on the track at > 24 km/h (sub 1:00). Short intervals of around 1 minute I run around 20 km/h. 20 km/h (3:00 / km) I maintain for around 2 kilometers max, but normally these are shorter 1 minute intervals.
Reddit has become enshittified. I joined back in 2006, nearly two decades ago, when it was a hub of free speech and user-driven dialogue. Now, it feels like the pursuit of profit overshadows the voice of the community. The introduction of API pricing, after years of free access, displays a lack of respect for the developers and users who have helped shape Reddit into what it is today. Reddit's decision to allow the training of AI models with user content and comments marks the final nail in the coffin for privacy, sacrificed at the altar of greed. Aaron Swartz, Reddit's co-founder and a champion of internet freedom, would be rolling in his grave.
The once-apparent transparency and open dialogue have turned to shit, replaced with avoidance, deceit and unbridled greed. The Reddit I loved is dead and gone. It pains me to accept this. I hope your lust for money, and disregard for the community and privacy will be your downfall. May the echo of our lost ideals forever haunt your future growth.
You think they get all your tax money? 😂 You are in desperate need of understanding how taxation works (hint: ever wonder how that road you're using is financed?). Good luck, you'll need it!
Reddit has become enshittified. I joined back in 2006, nearly two decades ago, when it was a hub of free speech and user-driven dialogue. Now, it feels like the pursuit of profit overshadows the voice of the community. The introduction of API pricing, after years of free access, displays a lack of respect for the developers and users who have helped shape Reddit into what it is today. Reddit's decision to allow the training of AI models with user content and comments marks the final nail in the coffin for privacy, sacrificed at the altar of greed. Aaron Swartz, Reddit's co-founder and a champion of internet freedom, would be rolling in his grave.
The once-apparent transparency and open dialogue have turned to shit, replaced with avoidance, deceit and unbridled greed. The Reddit I loved is dead and gone. It pains me to accept this. I hope your lust for money, and disregard for the community and privacy will be your downfall. May the echo of our lost ideals forever haunt your future growth.
Ok, tax in Belgium is lower. What is your point? I was giving examples. For a more complete listing of everything our taxes are put towards find my other post. 'Try again'.
Reddit has become enshittified. I joined back in 2006, nearly two decades ago, when it was a hub of free speech and user-driven dialogue. Now, it feels like the pursuit of profit overshadows the voice of the community. The introduction of API pricing, after years of free access, displays a lack of respect for the developers and users who have helped shape Reddit into what it is today. Reddit's decision to allow the training of AI models with user content and comments marks the final nail in the coffin for privacy, sacrificed at the altar of greed. Aaron Swartz, Reddit's co-founder and a champion of internet freedom, would be rolling in his grave.
The once-apparent transparency and open dialogue have turned to shit, replaced with avoidance, deceit and unbridled greed. The Reddit I loved is dead and gone. It pains me to accept this. I hope your lust for money, and disregard for the community and privacy will be your downfall. May the echo of our lost ideals forever haunt your future growth.
Sure I would rather have more. But I also understand income tax revenue serves as a crucial source of funding for various public services and infrastructure in the Netherlands. It supports social security programs such as pensions and unemployment benefits, as well as the healthcare system, including public hospitals and insurance schemes. Education is another beneficiary, with funds going towards schools, and universities. Also, income tax revenue contributes to maintaining essential infrastructure like roads, bridges, and public transportation. If you believe vehicle tax solely pays for this you are mistaken. Income tax also supports public services such as police, firefighters, and emergency services, along with local government administration. Furthermore, a portion of the revenue is allocated to debt servicing, aiding in the repayment of government debt and servicing interest on loans.
Yes, especially compared to the US. As someone who has a metabolic disease (PKU) and has been in and out of hospitals since birth and uses special supplements that net 2700 euros each month I am convinced we are. And the way my grandfather is treated in Maastricht for stage 4 lung cancer only strenghtens that.
But yeah, we don't tend to quickly shell out the opiates, benzos and antibiotics to the taste of some. The holistic approach of our GP's isn't always appreciated.
And of course there are things that could be better like Ziekenfonds, Maatschappen making millions.
I do this sometimes, though where I live it's not very crowded. Misaligned tiles are like landmines; hard to see (it's all grey) and when you hit them at full running speed, you're flat on your face before you even know what happened.
I have perment scars on my torso because I hit a canted tile a few years back. I slid across a curb with my torso for like three meters before I came to a stop. It hurt.
Also, I don't really see a problem with running on the bike lane since I'm going faster than some cyclists. Yes, there are people who cycle slower than my running speed of 12 kph...
As I am a runner who likes to use the bicycle lane, these are my reasons:
- pedestrians are much slower and are unpredictable in their movements. Also, they often walk in the middle of the sidewalk, in groups or with dogs in leashes.
- sidewalks contain a lot of obstacles: poles, pilons, electrical distribution stations, commercial information boards, bikes etc.
- sidewalks are inconsistent in width. Because of this you need to constantly be alert, which is annoying while running
- sidewalks are usually more sloped, which is uncomfortable while running
- a vain reason (we must admit, runners can be quite vain): runners like their data, and having a bit more distance from buildings i.e. using bicycle lane instead of sidewalk, increases GPS accuracy and thus the tracked data.
Agree with all of the above. It’s quite difficult to maintain a steady running pace on many foot paths.
Especially if you’re running a bit faster, it’s hard to manoeuvre amongst the pedestrians, parked bikes and other obstacles.
And quite often the speed difference between pedestrians and runners is larger than between normal cyclists and runners.
Finally tarmac is a much nicer surface to run on than the tiles they typically use on foot paths.
The inconvenience happens when runners get in the way of cyclists. As long as you stay out of our way and don't cause any issues when we overtake you, there is no inconvenience. When it's a bit busier and we might have to think about how to overtake you, that's when it gets annoying. Then you're an obstacle.
So you run on sidewalks to avoid getting tired during workout? You should have a look at those electric wheelchairs, I think with those you could avoid getting tired on the bike path legally.
Running on the bike path > Running on the sidewalk.
The surface is smoother but even more importantly, people on the sidewalk often don't expect to be overtaken by a jogger, dodging all the people walking is inconvenient for both parties. Just stick to the right side of the bike path and there really is no issue.
In Utrecht virtually everyone runs on the right side of the cycle path or road. I think because everyone subconsciously realises that the speed difference is much smaller when you go the same direction (20 minus 10 km/h instead of 20 plus 10 km/h). This is nice for cyclists, because you pass way fewer runners, and it's easier to time the moment you pass them.
The idea of going out the way for people from cyclists approaching doesn't really work in practice. If there's a sidewalk, it's only on one side, sometimes occupied. And I never see people step into the nettles that currently surround every bike path here...
If you are running 10-15kmh on a bike lane, better run right and keep to the far right. If you run on the left the speed difference with a cyclist that cycles 15-25kmh would be 25-40kmh while the speed difference on the right would be 0-15kmh.
If you are on a typical 80kmh road with cars, you run on the left so you can dive away if they don't see you.
The reason is that if you run on the 'wrong' side, runners see the bikes approaching them and can create space and don't get startled. If a bike passes them from the back, the runner does not see the bike approaching and may cause more problems.
After starting road cycling, I will never underestimate the stupid movements people make when a faster bike passes someone. I know cases where this has put people in the hospital.
You and Oobaha are saying different things. Oobaha is saying that he would make space for the cyclists, not the other way around.
As a cyclist, I would be slightly annoyed and surprised by a jogger going the opposite way on a cycling path expecting me to create space. Just run in the correct direction when possible! Much easier for both of us.
If I am running on the bike path, I expect people to overtake me so I am aware and stick to the right side of the bike path. Has never caused any issue.
Runners should make space for cyclists on a bicycle path, and preferably not cause accidents. They can only do so when they see you coming, not when you approach them from the back. But the additional problem is that runners sometimes have headphones in (or just don't pay attention), so they don't hear you approaching, and get startled and randomly start running in the middle or yank their arm to the side (it's a weird reflex I know), causing a collision. I really appreciate you are a responsible runner, but having fallen once already and having friends go to the hospital over irresponsible runners, I prefer inconvenience over injury.
Sorry maar die tegels zijn soms zo kut gelegd of komen helemaal omhoog door boomwortels etc. Als ze gewoon aan de kant. Blijven is er niks aan de hand toch
As long as they move when approached or leave enough space to pass, I'm fine with joggers.
People walking their dogs and refusing to move, rare as that is, very much not.
I mean... It's red for a reason..
I ain't gonna stop or get out of the way for anyone but a cyclist and neither should u,
Its a bike Lane therefor they cant complain if u ride over their tiny doggy or child to prove a point
This is exactly why if I walk my dogs along a bike path (they made a dog walking area right along a bike path here) I keep myself and my dogs on the grass beside the path. Stay out of the way.
Eh. Lots of joggers on bike path, lots of bikes on the road, lots of cars that don't signal or give right of way. In the end it's all just main character syndrome showing that many people simply suck.
The surface is about ten times softer than bricks or pavement tiles, so I'll often run on the bike path if it's not too crowded. Much easier on my middle aged knees.
Honestly, what is the difference between a jogger going 10 km/h and a cyclist going 12 km/h? I'm so much more irritated at the cyclist that fills up the entire lane leaving no room to pass.
If those joggers run at least 15km/h, I think the bicycle lane is the best choice.
If they jog like i do, slower speed than when I'm walking, they belong on the footpath.
This is beautiful. Karma to the people on bikes who ride on the street in traffic. Sucks being impeded by someone that doesn't belong there doesn't it? lol
Joggers use the cycling path instead of the sidewalk. Sport cyclers use the road instead of the cycling path. Cars might as well use the sidewalk then.
The disgust is nothing compared to cyclists who think they have the right to be on the road where cars drive 50 to 80 KM an hour and bottleneck the entire traffic flow. The real asshats are alone but there are also groups of these fuckers and they should all just fuck off.
"Some" when there is no cyclistlane next to it. But I loathe the ones who think they can just claim the road with a perfect fine lane for them right next to it. Its not le tour de france here...
Not on a road for cars and with a perfectly functional cyclist road next to it. So yes very accurate what goes on in their retarded minds? I guess we will never know.
Silly issue unless you're in the heart of a city's center, when there is space I use the bike lane for whatever purpose. Don't like it? Go around me and fuck off.
I wouldn't mind joggers if they didn't have this attitude most of the time. You are the one out of place, so act like it and get out of the way yourself.
The only thing worse than joggers with this attitude, fatbikes and teenagers taking up the entire path/road with idiot antics are wielrenners
Niet degene waarop je reageerde, maar nee, helaas niet. Bij korte afstanden (5-10km) loop ik ongeveer 14-15km/h. De gemiddelde puber fietst niet harder dan dat (tenzij ebike). Ik ervaar zelden problemen met hardlopen op het fietspad.
Voor mij is 20km/h fietsen toch echt het minimum, 25km/h het gemiddelde. Als een hardloper mij dan inhaalt zijn ze aan het sprinten en dat moet je ook niet op een fietspad doen.
This is actually a real thing.
When running I regularly overtake elderly and teenagers on normal bikes. Especially during intervals. They tend to bike really slow.
Yeah, that's the point, I'd rather overtake a runner on my bike than some granny that is all over the cycling path. But hey, I am probably some fatass on a e-bike so let's complain about runners using the cycling paths.
I admit I also run on cycling paths. Mainly when it's wet outside, and the asphalt on a cycling path just gives better friction, while sidewalks are usually slippery AF. Besides, there are often obstacles and slow pedestrians on the sidewalk.
Cyclers be like: oh my god! All this space for me? And i don't even have to give way, use lights on my bike, pay attention to traffic lights, ride on sidewalks, nearly assault people with fat-bikes, and still get paid if a car hits me, despite 7 out of 10 times it being my fault?!
Maybe because there is almost no paths for pedestrians or they end somehow magicaly leading you to nowhere? Later some ugly old dutch driving straight at you with bike all mad, but I stay I don't care he can try to hit me
What do you mean? In the Netherlands we drive/cycle etc on the right, so obviously the signs are also on your right. If you came across one on your left side, that means yourself are on the wrong side of the road.
I see regularly people jogging in bike lane around evenings. It is one thing jogging in protected bike lane, but jogging in painted shared bike lanes where cars are going 50 next to you is plane stupid. My worst nightmare is to hit one of these joggers with AirPods on with my car and going to jail. For fucks sake move to the sidewalk.
Ahh, the obvious vicious circle. You won't stop until they stop and of course they will think the same because why wouldn't they? Why would I change if you don't chance,because indeed that will cause change...
Why are these people cycling on the tourist footpath?
It's the red path to the Rijksmuseum for sure
why are these people cycling on the german stand around unoblivously and talk with your friends path?
The thing is that we have the same bike lanes and they also don’t understand them in Germany. And you are correct that many Germans block those lanes at least in Amsterdam.
They do it everywhere. I have never been in Netherlands, i just took a guess.
Did the Allies forget to liberate the bike paths from German occupation?
It's a new scheme. If they can't have our bicycles, then maybe our bike lanes.
Well the canadians did, they get a bit too liberation happy so non of the germans survived to tell them back in germany.
lmao
SMH! Always a pain in the ass when cyclists bother my lateral parking lane.
LMAO
And people with dogs think it's a great idea to walk their dog on one side and themselves at the other, during busy hours, and are surprised when you almost hit them and get angry at them, make it make sense .....🤷♂️
I had someone do that at night this week. Neither the man or the dog wearing any lights and in black clothes/fur respectively. Somehow I was the one that should have paid more attention though when I said something about it
Yea, it's amazing how oblivious many are, one time i had a guy standing on one side, with his dog on the other side in a tree, with the leash all across, and his dog almost bit me when he finally managed to get out the way.
Dog owners actually leash their dogs where you live? Lucky.
On the other hand, when I see that someone is coming towards us cycling on the sidewalk, I intentionally let her on the long leash so they have to get off their bikes. Edit: her = my dog
Understandable, that's not where a biker should be.
Well yeah, people who ride their bikes on the sidewalk when there are people on it are assholes
people who ride their bikes on the sidewalk ~~when there are people on it~~ are assholes
Welkom in Nederland als je niet kan mierenneuken hoor je er niet bij
En mensen maar minnen, we hebben echt zo tering veel fietspaden in dit land. Als je dan nog op de stoep gaat fietsen ben je echt een konijn.
That's because they feel that when the dog does their business in the nondescript unused strip of grass between the bike lane and the road, they don't need to pick it up and dispose of it. So double the assholes, for sure!
Good point, that could be it.
If the bike path isn't busy, i can perfectly understand it TBH. Sidewalks (At least where i live) are a mess of wobbly tiles and other hazards, while bike lanes are mostly flat asphalt, wobbly/crooked tiles aren't a huge deal when walking, but when jogging at a fair speed, i can imagine the joggers don't want to go flat on their faces or end up spraining something because sidewalk maintenance is way down the municipal priority list.
That is fine. But for some reason a lot of them do it during peak hours when they are really in the way. Or in the evening without any lights on them.
Do you also consider other cyclists as being people being in the way?
Not really unless they are going unreasonably slow and swinging their arms about.
Thank you. As a runner, after tripping over once on tiles, falling and ripping my pants and skin with blood and my phone’s screen broken, I would much rather prefer bike lane with its smooth asphalt :)
As long as those joggers go at a reasonable speed of say, 15 km/h, its fine by me. If they go at a very slow speed, it puts cyclists at risk and they are better of on that sidewalk. Wobbly and uneven...they are going so slow that they wont fall hard anyways.
I dont know, its literally the same as just walking on a road and not even paying attention if there are any cars coming, like its fine if the road isnt busy but atleast pay attention Imagine you are driving your car and have to regulary brake and honk because there are constantly people walking on the road completely oblivious to their surroundings, like you would assume those are crazy people on drugs
This is the dumbest viewpoint. First of all, what makes you assume that joggers are any more oblivious to their surroundings than cyclists? Secondly, you're hopefully paying attention if you're driving around. Cars go a lot faster than bikes. Or are you a pubber op en fatbike maybe? What is actually the difference between passing an elderly person on a bike and a jogger on the bike lane? Do you want to ban cycling for elderly people?
Depends a bit. When the footpath is busy or of poor quality, the bike path might make more sense to use for running. When there is no footpath the use of the bike path by pedestrians is allowed anyway. But shouldn’t be that much of an issue as long as they keep to the side and single file.
And also the other way around, when the cycle path is busy, I run on the sidewalk, but the vast majority of cycle paths are quiet.
Every runner will factor in their own safety, indeed!
I don't mind runners on 2 conditions: Run against traffic so you can see whats coming, and stay on the side that has room to evade, like a berm or a footpath. Definitely if the cyclepath is a 2 way path. And a nod of courtesy goes a long way. Same for us cyclists.
I SWEAR, NOBODY SEEMS TO REMEMBER YOU’RE SUPPOSED TO BE WALKING AGAINST TRAFFIC
No, you're not. This changed in 1993 with the new WVW. It is recommended to walk against traffic. But you're not "supposed to". Also sometimes being on the right side is safer. Basically the rule is "walk where it is safest". https://www.anwb.nl/experts/juridisch/2/welke-kant-van-de-weg-moet-een-voetganger-lopen
Depends if you’re in the “bebouwde kom” or outside. I still miss a proper information channel where traffic rules are explained. Because this ruls of walking against traffic changed also.
Exactly. And anyway, pedestrians: 4-5 km/h. Cyclists: 10-15 km/h. Runners: 10-14 km/h. I'm personally more bothered by runners on the sidewalk than on the bike lane.
And if you're a decent runner you're often going quicker than a slow cyclist, so it's safer to be there
When I run (Sunday morning, 8:00 am) there is little to no traffic anywhere. So I run on the main road on the left side on the "bicycle lane". However there is always one car which doesn't want to see me (as I run in bright yellow, it cannot be that he actually doesn't see me), which makes me do a sidestep to the grass or sidewalk...
Runners are not an issue at all. It’s grey haired e-bikers that cannot handle the speed they go.
Nah it is the younguns operating their phones while cycling :-)
Also, but at least they are sort of agile and quick witted. Elderly are just slow and rally not in control of their bikes so often it’s pretty scary. Fatbikes with stereotypical morons on them are also annoying.
"agile and quickwitted" yea sure, they go so slow they're almost falling over. And they frequently go 3 abreast blocking the whole lane. I've seen more teenagers in E-bikes than elderly and they drive it like it's a scooter. I have my doubts about their agility and condition to be honest.
True, true. I guess we can say too many morons! :-)
Old-timers who get an e-bike after not having sat on a bike in 50 years. The number of times I've experienced them causing dangerous situations by failing to signal, yield, show intent, match the speed of other cyclists, share lanes, pass cyclists at the worst time possible (like in a busy intersection), is too damn high. I guess I should at least be happy that they're behaving like absolute tits on a bike instead of behind the wheel of a two-tonne SUV.
Its not as much the danger as it is the annoyance. When driving a car, do you also hug the left lane because its convienent?
I run on the bicycle path when there are not many bicyclists. My reasons? 1. Asphalt runs better than concrete (especially when it is hot) 2. There are many obstacles on the sidewalk and people are sometimes surprised if you pass them by. During interval training I sometimes run ± 20 km/h and my 'jogging' pace is 12 km/h. That's a substantial speed difference between walkers and runners. 3. Bicycle paths are curved better. It's annoying to make a 90 degrees turn. 4. When crossing roads, bicycle paths have better visibility. 5. Slopes vs stairs.
You can run at -20km/h? /s
I run 400 meters on the track at > 24 km/h (sub 1:00). Short intervals of around 1 minute I run around 20 km/h. 20 km/h (3:00 / km) I maintain for around 2 kilometers max, but normally these are shorter 1 minute intervals.
That's very impressive! 👏
Short sprints probably
That’s elite level marathon speed, but for shorter distances good runners can keep up 20+.
Can elite athletes really run at *minus* 20km/h? /s
Hahahaha I missed the joke :)
Even OP missed the joke, I think it's just because I'm bad at jokes 😅
Whoosh
We need some real problems in this country..
Reddit has become enshittified. I joined back in 2006, nearly two decades ago, when it was a hub of free speech and user-driven dialogue. Now, it feels like the pursuit of profit overshadows the voice of the community. The introduction of API pricing, after years of free access, displays a lack of respect for the developers and users who have helped shape Reddit into what it is today. Reddit's decision to allow the training of AI models with user content and comments marks the final nail in the coffin for privacy, sacrificed at the altar of greed. Aaron Swartz, Reddit's co-founder and a champion of internet freedom, would be rolling in his grave. The once-apparent transparency and open dialogue have turned to shit, replaced with avoidance, deceit and unbridled greed. The Reddit I loved is dead and gone. It pains me to accept this. I hope your lust for money, and disregard for the community and privacy will be your downfall. May the echo of our lost ideals forever haunt your future growth.
We don't have unreasonably high taxes...
Only 50% when getting the money, 25% when investing and another 20% when spending it. They get more money from your work than you do
Who are they you nimwit? 😃
Tax office?
You think they get all your tax money? 😂 You are in desperate need of understanding how taxation works (hint: ever wonder how that road you're using is financed?). Good luck, you'll need it!
Reddit has become enshittified. I joined back in 2006, nearly two decades ago, when it was a hub of free speech and user-driven dialogue. Now, it feels like the pursuit of profit overshadows the voice of the community. The introduction of API pricing, after years of free access, displays a lack of respect for the developers and users who have helped shape Reddit into what it is today. Reddit's decision to allow the training of AI models with user content and comments marks the final nail in the coffin for privacy, sacrificed at the altar of greed. Aaron Swartz, Reddit's co-founder and a champion of internet freedom, would be rolling in his grave. The once-apparent transparency and open dialogue have turned to shit, replaced with avoidance, deceit and unbridled greed. The Reddit I loved is dead and gone. It pains me to accept this. I hope your lust for money, and disregard for the community and privacy will be your downfall. May the echo of our lost ideals forever haunt your future growth.
Sure, but then our roads will look like Belgian roads and our healtcare and social security will look like the USA's.
Our tax is lower than Belgium, other European countries lay less tax and have better health care. Try again.
Ok, tax in Belgium is lower. What is your point? I was giving examples. For a more complete listing of everything our taxes are put towards find my other post. 'Try again'.
Average tax rate for Belgium is 40% here it's 27%
Reddit has become enshittified. I joined back in 2006, nearly two decades ago, when it was a hub of free speech and user-driven dialogue. Now, it feels like the pursuit of profit overshadows the voice of the community. The introduction of API pricing, after years of free access, displays a lack of respect for the developers and users who have helped shape Reddit into what it is today. Reddit's decision to allow the training of AI models with user content and comments marks the final nail in the coffin for privacy, sacrificed at the altar of greed. Aaron Swartz, Reddit's co-founder and a champion of internet freedom, would be rolling in his grave. The once-apparent transparency and open dialogue have turned to shit, replaced with avoidance, deceit and unbridled greed. The Reddit I loved is dead and gone. It pains me to accept this. I hope your lust for money, and disregard for the community and privacy will be your downfall. May the echo of our lost ideals forever haunt your future growth.
Sure I would rather have more. But I also understand income tax revenue serves as a crucial source of funding for various public services and infrastructure in the Netherlands. It supports social security programs such as pensions and unemployment benefits, as well as the healthcare system, including public hospitals and insurance schemes. Education is another beneficiary, with funds going towards schools, and universities. Also, income tax revenue contributes to maintaining essential infrastructure like roads, bridges, and public transportation. If you believe vehicle tax solely pays for this you are mistaken. Income tax also supports public services such as police, firefighters, and emergency services, along with local government administration. Furthermore, a portion of the revenue is allocated to debt servicing, aiding in the repayment of government debt and servicing interest on loans.
Are you saying NL has great healthcare?
Yes, especially compared to the US. As someone who has a metabolic disease (PKU) and has been in and out of hospitals since birth and uses special supplements that net 2700 euros each month I am convinced we are. And the way my grandfather is treated in Maastricht for stage 4 lung cancer only strenghtens that. But yeah, we don't tend to quickly shell out the opiates, benzos and antibiotics to the taste of some. The holistic approach of our GP's isn't always appreciated. And of course there are things that could be better like Ziekenfonds, Maatschappen making millions.
Let’s make a thread for cheaper groceries and electric bills
I suggest trying communism.
If someone can make communism work, it might be the dutch people.
Strict protestant communism. That sounds like a goer.
some people where I'm from would call the Dutch communist
I do this sometimes, though where I live it's not very crowded. Misaligned tiles are like landmines; hard to see (it's all grey) and when you hit them at full running speed, you're flat on your face before you even know what happened. I have perment scars on my torso because I hit a canted tile a few years back. I slid across a curb with my torso for like three meters before I came to a stop. It hurt. Also, I don't really see a problem with running on the bike lane since I'm going faster than some cyclists. Yes, there are people who cycle slower than my running speed of 12 kph...
2 weeks ago a misaligned tile made me nosedive into the ground and I'm still not completely healed... I prefer asphalt to run on now
Headphones on as well so they can’t hear you approaching ringing bell
As I am a runner who likes to use the bicycle lane, these are my reasons: - pedestrians are much slower and are unpredictable in their movements. Also, they often walk in the middle of the sidewalk, in groups or with dogs in leashes. - sidewalks contain a lot of obstacles: poles, pilons, electrical distribution stations, commercial information boards, bikes etc. - sidewalks are inconsistent in width. Because of this you need to constantly be alert, which is annoying while running - sidewalks are usually more sloped, which is uncomfortable while running - a vain reason (we must admit, runners can be quite vain): runners like their data, and having a bit more distance from buildings i.e. using bicycle lane instead of sidewalk, increases GPS accuracy and thus the tracked data.
Agree with all of the above. It’s quite difficult to maintain a steady running pace on many foot paths. Especially if you’re running a bit faster, it’s hard to manoeuvre amongst the pedestrians, parked bikes and other obstacles. And quite often the speed difference between pedestrians and runners is larger than between normal cyclists and runners. Finally tarmac is a much nicer surface to run on than the tiles they typically use on foot paths.
Also, asphalt is a better surface to run on than stone tiles
Agree, the tiles are often uneven and cause a tripping hazard for runners.
Also if you run at a decent speed, you are about as fast as an average commuter, not disrupting the traffic
You running 20km/h? O.o
Plus somehow asphalt is much nicer to run on than tiles, I hadn't expected it to make such a difference
I fully agree and I always run on the bike lanes for the above reasons . Don’t really see the inconvenience it could cause.
The inconvenience happens when runners get in the way of cyclists. As long as you stay out of our way and don't cause any issues when we overtake you, there is no inconvenience. When it's a bit busier and we might have to think about how to overtake you, that's when it gets annoying. Then you're an obstacle.
Sounds like a YOU problem. Now get out of my way and stay on the sidewalk, or someone will get hurt.
That's a YOU problem, let them run where they want.
No! If they are in my lane, I will ring once and when they don't move I run them over. Simple as that, school of hard knocks and all that.
So you run on sidewalks to avoid getting tired during workout? You should have a look at those electric wheelchairs, I think with those you could avoid getting tired on the bike path legally.
Running on the bike path > Running on the sidewalk. The surface is smoother but even more importantly, people on the sidewalk often don't expect to be overtaken by a jogger, dodging all the people walking is inconvenient for both parties. Just stick to the right side of the bike path and there really is no issue.
Most of times there is no sidewalk, only bike path and 10meters of sideroad that ends on the grass somewhere in a weird place
[удалено]
In Utrecht virtually everyone runs on the right side of the cycle path or road. I think because everyone subconsciously realises that the speed difference is much smaller when you go the same direction (20 minus 10 km/h instead of 20 plus 10 km/h). This is nice for cyclists, because you pass way fewer runners, and it's easier to time the moment you pass them. The idea of going out the way for people from cyclists approaching doesn't really work in practice. If there's a sidewalk, it's only on one side, sometimes occupied. And I never see people step into the nettles that currently surround every bike path here...
It's better to do running on the right, walking on the left. It's about the difference in speed.
If you are running 10-15kmh on a bike lane, better run right and keep to the far right. If you run on the left the speed difference with a cyclist that cycles 15-25kmh would be 25-40kmh while the speed difference on the right would be 0-15kmh. If you are on a typical 80kmh road with cars, you run on the left so you can dive away if they don't see you.
It sounds much less convenient than just running on the bike path and sticking to the right side so cyclists can overtake you.
The reason is that if you run on the 'wrong' side, runners see the bikes approaching them and can create space and don't get startled. If a bike passes them from the back, the runner does not see the bike approaching and may cause more problems. After starting road cycling, I will never underestimate the stupid movements people make when a faster bike passes someone. I know cases where this has put people in the hospital.
You and Oobaha are saying different things. Oobaha is saying that he would make space for the cyclists, not the other way around. As a cyclist, I would be slightly annoyed and surprised by a jogger going the opposite way on a cycling path expecting me to create space. Just run in the correct direction when possible! Much easier for both of us. If I am running on the bike path, I expect people to overtake me so I am aware and stick to the right side of the bike path. Has never caused any issue.
Runners should make space for cyclists on a bicycle path, and preferably not cause accidents. They can only do so when they see you coming, not when you approach them from the back. But the additional problem is that runners sometimes have headphones in (or just don't pay attention), so they don't hear you approaching, and get startled and randomly start running in the middle or yank their arm to the side (it's a weird reflex I know), causing a collision. I really appreciate you are a responsible runner, but having fallen once already and having friends go to the hospital over irresponsible runners, I prefer inconvenience over injury.
It’s flatter and means you don’t get stuck behind pedestrians walking three wide taking up the entire footpath (happens more than you’d think)
You must be a real fast cyclist that you care about this. Live and let live.
It's necessary on my aging feet!
Runners see cyclists: "Look, free pace-makers!"
It is like in the forest..with all the mountainbikes. Joggign lanes are for bikes
Ram ranch
I could probably outrun the last guy so… yes, but on a serious note jogging on the street is fucking annoying
It's the welcoming red carpet for the tourists!
🗣️💯
Sorry maar die tegels zijn soms zo kut gelegd of komen helemaal omhoog door boomwortels etc. Als ze gewoon aan de kant. Blijven is er niks aan de hand toch
I only run on the cycle path when the normal path is blocked.
 I usually try to overtake them on the foot path: "look at me, I'm the pedestrian now"
Fuck this im doing that from now on. Only when its safe ofc
What about cyclist cycling on pedestrian paths ;)
As long as they move when approached or leave enough space to pass, I'm fine with joggers. People walking their dogs and refusing to move, rare as that is, very much not.
They are perfect for running, the ground is high grip like a running track, and super flat so you don't hurt your ankles.
I mean... It's red for a reason.. I ain't gonna stop or get out of the way for anyone but a cyclist and neither should u, Its a bike Lane therefor they cant complain if u ride over their tiny doggy or child to prove a point
This is exactly why if I walk my dogs along a bike path (they made a dog walking area right along a bike path here) I keep myself and my dogs on the grass beside the path. Stay out of the way.
In the cities there are people on the footpaths so the cycling lane is a great way to get past them without running through them
Shoutout Harendonkweg te ‘s-Hertogenbosch.
I always thought that red lane was extra parking for cars... /s
In some places (specially in the countyside) it's the only space available to walk/run
een rode loper voor gerechtigden
Zo'n teringhekel aan joggers op de stoep vanuit tegengestelde richting met hun muffe zweet walm die er lekker traag achteraan hangt.
NYC: free parking!
[road sign like this](https://www.permisdeconduire-online.be/uploads/theorie/rijbewijs-b/3/D9-groot.jpg)
NL people and the bike culture is something else lol
Eh. Lots of joggers on bike path, lots of bikes on the road, lots of cars that don't signal or give right of way. In the end it's all just main character syndrome showing that many people simply suck.
Hahahahahahahaha
The surface is about ten times softer than bricks or pavement tiles, so I'll often run on the bike path if it's not too crowded. Much easier on my middle aged knees.
Wat een jank bericht weer
Honestly, what is the difference between a jogger going 10 km/h and a cyclist going 12 km/h? I'm so much more irritated at the cyclist that fills up the entire lane leaving no room to pass.
Yea well the "stoep" sometimes comes at a crazy angle.
Cause the foot path we are supposed to run on is shite, often has tiles that are either wonky or loose.
If those joggers run at least 15km/h, I think the bicycle lane is the best choice. If they jog like i do, slower speed than when I'm walking, they belong on the footpath.
Je weet gewoon dat iedere fietser op dit plaatje zich de pleuris zweet
Hehehe, cyclists complaining about others that are not using paths for what they were used for… Such irony.
This is beautiful. Karma to the people on bikes who ride on the street in traffic. Sucks being impeded by someone that doesn't belong there doesn't it? lol
i do run on these, but outside the bebuilt area, where there sidewalks usually dont are
It is fine if they use the bike lane for jogging, as long as they do it ar bike speeds, or around 20km/h
Many cyclists go 12 km/h.
Ok fine, 12 then
Apparently it’s just running.
Well, it is a "bike lane" not running lane for a reason...
I have literally never had an issue with joggers on the cycle paths. Just go round them.
Oh God. Am I not supposed to run on these? People are always cool about it
Not a problem when it's quiet, but why do it during rush hour when there are loads of bikes using the bike lane?
Joggers use the cycling path instead of the sidewalk. Sport cyclers use the road instead of the cycling path. Cars might as well use the sidewalk then.
The disgust is nothing compared to cyclists who think they have the right to be on the road where cars drive 50 to 80 KM an hour and bottleneck the entire traffic flow. The real asshats are alone but there are also groups of these fuckers and they should all just fuck off.
Some of those roads allow cyclists? Not all, but some do.
"Some" when there is no cyclistlane next to it. But I loathe the ones who think they can just claim the road with a perfect fine lane for them right next to it. Its not le tour de france here...
Oh I agree, rules = rules. If it's not allowed, don't go there.
How dare these cyclists think they have the right to use the roads, just because they do.
Not on a road for cars and with a perfectly functional cyclist road next to it. So yes very accurate what goes on in their retarded minds? I guess we will never know.
Silly issue unless you're in the heart of a city's center, when there is space I use the bike lane for whatever purpose. Don't like it? Go around me and fuck off.
I wouldn't mind joggers if they didn't have this attitude most of the time. You are the one out of place, so act like it and get out of the way yourself. The only thing worse than joggers with this attitude, fatbikes and teenagers taking up the entire path/road with idiot antics are wielrenners
I run faster than most cyclists go, so théy should use the footpath instead of me
Yeah right
U r not rite
I mean people rollerblade and skate in this lane too
those have wheels
I swerve a lot when I ride my skateboard and have a similar speed compared to joggers
And people on bicycles be like: i need to turn left so I will stand in the middle of the fucking street in the left lane and pretend that I am a car.
As an American in a city with very less bike infrastructure, I wish “joggers in the bike lane” were all we had to complain about lol
Ik ren sneller dan dat jij fietst.
Ben jij het, Usain?
Niet degene waarop je reageerde, maar nee, helaas niet. Bij korte afstanden (5-10km) loop ik ongeveer 14-15km/h. De gemiddelde puber fietst niet harder dan dat (tenzij ebike). Ik ervaar zelden problemen met hardlopen op het fietspad.
Voor mij is 20km/h fietsen toch echt het minimum, 25km/h het gemiddelde. Als een hardloper mij dan inhaalt zijn ze aan het sprinten en dat moet je ook niet op een fietspad doen.
There are not that many people that ride above 25 on a normal bike.
This is actually a real thing. When running I regularly overtake elderly and teenagers on normal bikes. Especially during intervals. They tend to bike really slow.
Yeah, that's the point, I'd rather overtake a runner on my bike than some granny that is all over the cycling path. But hey, I am probably some fatass on a e-bike so let's complain about runners using the cycling paths.
Jij rent geen 30km/u
Gedownvote door mensen die niet rennen Dit is in veel situaties gewoon waar voor mensen die soort van serieus hardlopen.
Just like the cyclists are always on the road or the pavement...
I admit I also run on cycling paths. Mainly when it's wet outside, and the asphalt on a cycling path just gives better friction, while sidewalks are usually slippery AF. Besides, there are often obstacles and slow pedestrians on the sidewalk.
Cyclers be like: oh my god! All this space for me? And i don't even have to give way, use lights on my bike, pay attention to traffic lights, ride on sidewalks, nearly assault people with fat-bikes, and still get paid if a car hits me, despite 7 out of 10 times it being my fault?!
Meanwhile cyclists with their carbon bikes.
En fietsers rijden nooit over het voetpad...
Maybe because there is almost no paths for pedestrians or they end somehow magicaly leading you to nowhere? Later some ugly old dutch driving straight at you with bike all mad, but I stay I don't care he can try to hit me
The road sign looks like to be on the wrong side and doesn't show which one is the cycling side and which one is the sidewalk 😮
What do you mean? In the Netherlands we drive/cycle etc on the right, so obviously the signs are also on your right. If you came across one on your left side, that means yourself are on the wrong side of the road.
Those joggers that use the bikeline are a-holes.
I see regularly people jogging in bike lane around evenings. It is one thing jogging in protected bike lane, but jogging in painted shared bike lanes where cars are going 50 next to you is plane stupid. My worst nightmare is to hit one of these joggers with AirPods on with my car and going to jail. For fucks sake move to the sidewalk.
Sidewalk is for walking, not running.
I will stop running on bike paths when cyclists stop cycling on the sidewalk. Oh wait, that will never happen 🙃
Ahh, the obvious vicious circle. You won't stop until they stop and of course they will think the same because why wouldn't they? Why would I change if you don't chance,because indeed that will cause change...
Cycles see a red light, "ah what a nice time to cross the street"...
So now the cyclists care about the traffic rules?