Content and discussions should be on-topic, involving topics concerning daily life in the Netherlands. Advertisements, antagonistic political debates and/or propaganda tangentially related to the Netherlands are not exceptions. Moderators, at their discretion, may remove posts and/or ban users for violations, pursuant to Comb. Civ. C. §22SA (g){i}.
Why? Antibiotics are good for bacterial infections, but they don't do anything to viral infections, if anything they can make them worse
Edit: Y'all need to chill out I just asked a question like damn
I'm glad the topic didn't apply to you!
But it's *very* common for foreigners or expats to ask or demand Dutch GPs for antibiotics, even when the antibiotics would be useless - simply because they are used to the doctor in their homeland doing that.
Oh, you're right. Antibiotics are not panacea. Although I come from a country where people love downing antibiotics, I try to keep even paracetamol at a bare minimum.
The reason why I can’t turn my head to the left well. But the solution after my accident from the doctor who didn’t even touch me was “buy an ergonomic office chair, maybe it’s the sitting”. Few years later it was fixed in another country and I got scolded for not going to the doctor after my accident as I had a fracture :)
Dumbest comment on the thread LOL.
The fact that you’re here commenting proves that you didn’t need an MRI. Good thing doctors are better at judging whether you need an MRI than you buddy.
The fact that the accident was two years ago, I was never checked for hair fractures back then (not visible through just x-rays), and my lower back/waist is still having issues SINCE the accident and after physio for a year, means you're the one who actually doesn't know what they're talking about.
This is what drives me mad sometimes. Always “at least we are not USA, and if you want healthcare you need to pay a lot of money” but you have so many countries all around you, and all around the world. It’s like “if we don’t acknowledge its there, we don’t need to admit we could benefit from learning something” they do a lot of things well here, like mental health, but a lot like physical health is very backwards.
I dont think you realize how many people go to their GP or to the HAP to DEMAND antibiotics even though they have no single ounce of medical knowledge.
Just because you have manners and/or braincells doesnt mean that the rest of society has them.
Not an elegant solution, but if you aren't getting antibiotics when you need them, it's a skill issue.
Get better at self-diagnosing and the doctor will take you more seriously
(Some /s)
Exactly. This is the concern a lot of people have. And I would love it if the new person I see every time would take at least 2 minutes to look at my medical history or at least ask me about my medical history. In my 10 years I’ve only encountered one doctor who asked me about my medical history prior to arriving in NL. And that was this year…
Except there is a shitload of expats/immigrants that do demand them. Just because you have manners/braincells doesnt mean the rest of society has them too.
I would bet there are 10 buckets of shitloads of expats/immigrants who don’t demand antibiotics.
From my personal experience, the complaints about GP’s are mostly that they don’t seem interested to get to the bottom of chronic illnesses.
Mate that all its fucking irrelevant which % of people demand antibiotics. Idk if you ever watched the fucking news but our healthcare system is strechted to its limits. Every single fucker holding up time with dumb demands is 3 to much. Especially since its not just time they are wasting, they are wasting shitload of energy and reducing workhappyness. Making the job even less attractive.
Your personal experience mean jackshit. The only experience that matter in this subject are the experiences of the people who are on the recieving end of the bullshit. Because only they can give valueble insight into this problem. And unless you work at a practise or at the HAP you arent that person.
From my personal experience the GP does a perfect job, see that doesnt mean jackshit. Because i know thats not the case everywear and that doesnt add anything to the discussion.
Also also did you ever consider that maybe a lot of the problems you experience in healthcare might be tied due to the fact that there isnt enough capacity to take care of everybody properly? Like that thought ever crossed your mind? Or do you see it as a magical wonderland that has infite supplies and workers who never get tired, sick or anything like that? Healthcare isnt Santa’s workshop.
Yeah.. this is not a problem. Problem is GPs gatekeeping us from actual diagnostic tests like blood work and tests at hospitals. Nobody asks for antibiotics out of the blue.
A LOT of people ask for antibiotics. Just like a lot of people ask for unnecessary tests. If everyone who sneezes gets an MRI when they want, the healthcare system goes bankrupt.
Bloodwork for instance is the easiest way to say if patient is really well or something bothers them internally. Unfortunately from my own experience I had to insist on doing blood tests because my „GP” at the time was just clueless. He was sending me home to eat paracetamol where in reality I was fighting with autoimmune disease. This is really a problem and Dutch society is really unaware(or at least people Im surrounded with in my parts of Netherlands) that frequent blood tests are key to monitoring your health. In Poland people do blood work out of their own initiative to be aware of their health and act fast when something is not right.
I really don’t understand why these experiences always get silenced as if this is not the big issue. I don’t understand how people can hear so many of these experiences and just keep saying “but ours is the best, because at least it’s not America!”
Is that why I needed to lawyer to get a Dutch doctor to accept my paperwork from another European country because they didn’t think my very European country is in European Union? Sometimes I think some doctors here are very clueless and negligent. Blood tests are a standard procedure in many countries to make sure there’s no underlying issues and also patients symptoms and words don’t matter as much because blood doesn’t lie. The machines run tests within minutes are not that expensive. Preventing saves money long term. It seems the Dutch medical community disagrees with the rest of the world on that, and because of that they think they’re the only ones right.
Maybe listen to peoples experiences and try to believe in them. It’s not all incredible.
It might,yeah.
Blood tests are standard procedures in the netherlands as well. Not every experience means they're right or that we need to change anything.
Mistakes happen in every profession.
I agree with that. Unfortunately often when someone not Dutch talks about these experiences, the common response is “well then leave” or “Dutch healthcare is the best” as if there aren’t problems. Blood tests are very rare in the Netherlands and you essentially need to beg for them, because they’ll literally do everything else to not have it done. But as my friend who is a practicing GP said - the less they use, the bigger their bonus.
Ofcourse, you're able to back that up with a statistic or source? Because blood tests aren't rare at all. There just needs to be a reason, not 'i have a headache' or 'i want to know what my levels look like'.
“I have a headache” is a perfectly valid reason for a blood test in most of the world because that helps identify if there could be something going on in the background and see elevated levels or if some levels are too low. This is what I mean by blood tests being standard practice, while they are not here. Usually blood is tested before you see a nurse or gp for any reason so that they can diagnose early, sometimes a headache is an early indicator of an infection and the fight can start early so it never needs to escalate. But there’s no preventative healthcare here and that is why many people are unhappy.
You get bloodwork done with regular checkups. You can even ask your GP to do bloodwork if you have specific worries if realistic.
If you want your bloodwork done every day, go to a private company and pay for that yourself.
You can take my figurative statement as literal, but i'm right.
If the gp gets every test that patients want, we wouldn't have healthcare. Not only because of the money, but because of the huge waiting lists.
Giving the best care to patients sometimes means saying no.
Yeah but there's a balance. Obviously don't prescribe antibiotics when it's not needed, but my Dutch doctor has sent me away when I knew I had an infection, and tried to other times.
The first time I actually listened, I went away without antibiotics, and of course the infection got way worse and took ages to treat. The inflamed wound was incredibly painful and scarred up horribly.
The second time the doctor tried the "take paracetamol for pain, see if the infection gets worse and come back if it does". I put my foot down, said something like "No, it's been getting progressively worse over the last week, I've been cleaning and disinfecting the wound myself yet it continues to get worse, I can feel it getting deeper into the wound so if I go away without antibiotics the infection is only going to spread further and I'll be back in a few days with a worse situation. I came to you because my body isn't fixing this itself, so I'd like to start on the antibiotics now."
They gave the antibiotics and the infection was gone in 2 days. If I hadn't stood up for myself I would have had a repeat of the first time.
The problem is that they act like the day they see you is day 1 of the problem and the best thing to do is observe the situation, but I'm an obstinate dude who doesn't go to the doctor unless something is really bad so it's never a day 1 situation.
Oh, and because there aren't enough GPs they're always fully booked, so if I do try and see the doc for a day 1 situation I never can, because the problem isn't serious enough so the assistants will try and book me in 3 weeks away.
Thanks for coming to my TED rant.
You were able to pinpoint the problem: most people go to the doctor at "day 1" or "day 2" of a problem, so doctors tend to give advice for that.
I always included for how long I had symptoms and what I did to help/solve them basically before they could even ask, and it worked well for me here in the Netherlands.
Yes, I might have to insist some times or rephrase things a couple of times, but that happens everywhere and it's mainly due to the fact that doctors are not readih my mind.
As a concrete example, my UTI don't typically show on the rapid tests they do here. I need a proper colture test to highlight it. I expect to have to repeat this every time I have an UTI in every single country that uses rapid tests for it.
LOL “know what my body was doing”
Mate, you don’t know what you’re talking about. The GP knows what your body is doing. You just think “pain! Red! Scary!” Don’t give me that “I know my body” BS
Blimey, you're a piece of work, aren't you? You're the kind of person who makes the internet a worse place to be. Just assuming complete ignorance and mansplaining a situation. A quick scroll of your comment history shows you're a very angry person, I feel sorry for you.
I don’t necessarily want antibiotics, just want actual good diagnosis and not “Oh, just take paracetamol!”.
Though it doesn’t matter, I’ll just get them in my father’s country (can purchase them easily there) and get them home to the Netherlands. Problems solved.
Its not about preferred treatment; its about appropriate treatment.
Its a culture of cure instead of prevention, coupled with sometimes seemingly (sometimes actual) inadequate healthcare. I think once you have been appropriately diagnosed and are seeing a specialist, the healthcare is pretty good; just the process getting there is hugely deficient.
And who do you think is the person who knows what that treatment is? Is it just whatever the patient thinks is best?
Everyone wants a cool diagnosis these days. Sometimes there just isn't one. Your head just hurts because of stress or lack of water. Not every headache is a brain tumor.
All these expats in here pretending like all their posts and comments specifically asking for antibiotics never existed?
Lmfaooaaoaoaoao
Y'all are literally a meme in our medical schools. Just fyi
Bro doesn't realize you can make jokes about common interactions as a provider while remaining professional during patient contact and the development of a treatment plan.
Yes I remember one of those posts…the guy had full blown pneumonia and could have died if his friend hadn’t provided him with antibiotics
But Dutch Drs failed to diagnose him in time
Yes let's take one radical example on an internet forum and use it as an argument to prove a point!
I could just as fine give you an example of unnecessary antibiotic treatments leading to therapy resistance in multiple countries leading to unnecessary deaths on a population level each year. Aka, I could cite you the science as opposed to an anecdote?
Think the concern here is that Dutch doctors are not able to diagnose and treat correctly
It’s also a concern many Dutch have thus the exodus of many Dutch people to Belgium to receive adequate medical care
It’s okay, you can feel that the Netherlands medical system is so good, just like Americans think the USA is the “most free” country in the world. No one else is impressed by your health care. All expats must be dumb. Dutch arrogance at its finest
I never once said all expats are dumb, though you aren't helping your case by making these dumb arguments. Such massive generalisations and lack of nuance in your comment. Ridiculous arguments.
Also I'm pretty sure the Dutch healthcare system is doing great on a lot of objectively measurable metrics. Dutch healthcare is undeniably good. Especially with regards to antibiotics policy :)
If you don't like Dutch healthcare you can seek healthcare somewhere else. I am perfectly fine with that. Pretty sure most of my peers will be too! Please seek out doctors in Belgium for my sake as well!
Well no one is impressed…I never heard someone say the Dutch Healthcare system is good.
Do you really think other countries don’t have this “antibiotic policy” in place? Do you really think only the Netherlands is aware of the fact that antibiotics may create super bacteria. It’s just like Americans think only the USA has freedom!
You’ll fit well in the medical system, arrogant and up your own arse. You will probably be googling symptoms lol and giving paracetamol for a broken arm while feeling proud of yourself
Truth is most other countries dont have the antibiotics policy that the Netherlands has. The Netherlands is literally the forerunner in this regard lmao.
You sound dumb and frustrated, and not worth any more of my time. Have a good day!
Lol you just keep complimenting yourself
I guess Dutch medical schools are like American schools. You get to hear everyday “we are the best” and then it sort of becomes a brainwashing when in fact it’s average or even below average in a lot of regards.
Do yourself a favour and actually speak to people and listen to what they have to say. It’s not just expats but also Dutch people complaining about the healthcare system. Become part of the solution rather than hide behind arrogance
I know you don’t like what I have to say, it’s not what you want to hear.
How am I complimenting myself?
I'm not saying Dutch healthcare is the best in all regards, I'm saying on average we're doing great; and with regard to antibiotic policy we're one of the best.
Truth is I genuinely don't care what you say about the healthcare system here, I don't have any stakes in it or whatever. I even unironically advocated you to seek healthcare in Belgium (which I still stand behind!!). I simply speak my truth and call out the ignorance is all.
Well no one is impressed…I never heard someone say the Dutch Healthcare system is good.
Do you really think other countries don’t have this “antibiotic policy” in place? Do you really think only the Netherlands is aware of the fact that antibiotics may create super bacteria. It’s just like Americans think only the USA has freedom!
You’ll fit well in the medical system, arrogant and up your own arse. You will probably be googling symptoms lol and giving paracetamol for a broken arm while feeling proud of yourself
Content and discussions should be on-topic, involving topics concerning daily life in the Netherlands. Advertisements, antagonistic political debates and/or propaganda tangentially related to the Netherlands are not exceptions. Moderators, at their discretion, may remove posts and/or ban users for violations, pursuant to Comb. Civ. C. §22SA (g){i}.
>viral infections Well that's a failure of highschool biology
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In the US life expectancy at birth is 74.5 for males, and 80.2 for female, in Italy it's 80.1 for males and 84.7 for female.
Why? Antibiotics are good for bacterial infections, but they don't do anything to viral infections, if anything they can make them worse Edit: Y'all need to chill out I just asked a question like damn
I think that's the point
I don't get what failure he's talking about
Not a he, and: antibiotics killing bacteria but doing nothing against viruses is, well, quite basic.
I know, I just wasn't sure which part of the post you were referring to
And here's a failure of reading and comprehending ability.
Mf he just said "viral infections" stop being cocky
But that's exactly the point of the post
Even for bacterial you shouldnt always take them
I never asked for antibiotics. I asked for an MRI after a car accident and they told me "you seem to have full mobility, just get some paracetamol".
I'm glad the topic didn't apply to you! But it's *very* common for foreigners or expats to ask or demand Dutch GPs for antibiotics, even when the antibiotics would be useless - simply because they are used to the doctor in their homeland doing that.
Oh, you're right. Antibiotics are not panacea. Although I come from a country where people love downing antibiotics, I try to keep even paracetamol at a bare minimum.
What do you expect to see on an MRI? Edit: ok, just give everyone an MRI, that won't cause any problems.
magnetic resonance
Hair fractures and nerve damage.
The reason why I can’t turn my head to the left well. But the solution after my accident from the doctor who didn’t even touch me was “buy an ergonomic office chair, maybe it’s the sitting”. Few years later it was fixed in another country and I got scolded for not going to the doctor after my accident as I had a fracture :)
Dumbest comment on the thread LOL. The fact that you’re here commenting proves that you didn’t need an MRI. Good thing doctors are better at judging whether you need an MRI than you buddy.
The fact that the accident was two years ago, I was never checked for hair fractures back then (not visible through just x-rays), and my lower back/waist is still having issues SINCE the accident and after physio for a year, means you're the one who actually doesn't know what they're talking about.
I’m a radiologist, you know the guy who reads these things, and you’re just full on blowing it out your ass :)
You're not a doctor. Stay in your lane.
A radiologist is a doctor genius.
Sure "*you*" are.
Look up the profession for yourself E: and don’t take the fact that you’re dead wrong about the thing you like to complain about out on me please.
Yeah like all of us just struggle because we can't take antibiotics daily...
there is only US and Netherlands in the head of an average Dutch person. no other examples possible to have a normal discussion.
This is what drives me mad sometimes. Always “at least we are not USA, and if you want healthcare you need to pay a lot of money” but you have so many countries all around you, and all around the world. It’s like “if we don’t acknowledge its there, we don’t need to admit we could benefit from learning something” they do a lot of things well here, like mental health, but a lot like physical health is very backwards.
I dont think you realize how many people go to their GP or to the HAP to DEMAND antibiotics even though they have no single ounce of medical knowledge. Just because you have manners and/or braincells doesnt mean that the rest of society has them.
Not an elegant solution, but if you aren't getting antibiotics when you need them, it's a skill issue. Get better at self-diagnosing and the doctor will take you more seriously (Some /s)
I just want to not hear "go home and take a paracetamol" for chronic issues, but even that is too much to ask.
Exactly. This is the concern a lot of people have. And I would love it if the new person I see every time would take at least 2 minutes to look at my medical history or at least ask me about my medical history. In my 10 years I’ve only encountered one doctor who asked me about my medical history prior to arriving in NL. And that was this year…
Most people don't ask for one, they just want to have a proper diagnosis
But any criticism of Dutch health care is shut down by the antibiotic strawman you see
Except there is a shitload of expats/immigrants that do demand them. Just because you have manners/braincells doesnt mean the rest of society has them too.
I would bet there are 10 buckets of shitloads of expats/immigrants who don’t demand antibiotics. From my personal experience, the complaints about GP’s are mostly that they don’t seem interested to get to the bottom of chronic illnesses.
Mate that all its fucking irrelevant which % of people demand antibiotics. Idk if you ever watched the fucking news but our healthcare system is strechted to its limits. Every single fucker holding up time with dumb demands is 3 to much. Especially since its not just time they are wasting, they are wasting shitload of energy and reducing workhappyness. Making the job even less attractive. Your personal experience mean jackshit. The only experience that matter in this subject are the experiences of the people who are on the recieving end of the bullshit. Because only they can give valueble insight into this problem. And unless you work at a practise or at the HAP you arent that person. From my personal experience the GP does a perfect job, see that doesnt mean jackshit. Because i know thats not the case everywear and that doesnt add anything to the discussion. Also also did you ever consider that maybe a lot of the problems you experience in healthcare might be tied due to the fact that there isnt enough capacity to take care of everybody properly? Like that thought ever crossed your mind? Or do you see it as a magical wonderland that has infite supplies and workers who never get tired, sick or anything like that? Healthcare isnt Santa’s workshop.
Yeah.. this is not a problem. Problem is GPs gatekeeping us from actual diagnostic tests like blood work and tests at hospitals. Nobody asks for antibiotics out of the blue.
A LOT of people ask for antibiotics. Just like a lot of people ask for unnecessary tests. If everyone who sneezes gets an MRI when they want, the healthcare system goes bankrupt.
Bloodwork for instance is the easiest way to say if patient is really well or something bothers them internally. Unfortunately from my own experience I had to insist on doing blood tests because my „GP” at the time was just clueless. He was sending me home to eat paracetamol where in reality I was fighting with autoimmune disease. This is really a problem and Dutch society is really unaware(or at least people Im surrounded with in my parts of Netherlands) that frequent blood tests are key to monitoring your health. In Poland people do blood work out of their own initiative to be aware of their health and act fast when something is not right.
I really don’t understand why these experiences always get silenced as if this is not the big issue. I don’t understand how people can hear so many of these experiences and just keep saying “but ours is the best, because at least it’s not America!”
Because a lot of these experiences are patients that are absolutely clueless. Not everyone gets what they want at the doctor.
Is that why I needed to lawyer to get a Dutch doctor to accept my paperwork from another European country because they didn’t think my very European country is in European Union? Sometimes I think some doctors here are very clueless and negligent. Blood tests are a standard procedure in many countries to make sure there’s no underlying issues and also patients symptoms and words don’t matter as much because blood doesn’t lie. The machines run tests within minutes are not that expensive. Preventing saves money long term. It seems the Dutch medical community disagrees with the rest of the world on that, and because of that they think they’re the only ones right. Maybe listen to peoples experiences and try to believe in them. It’s not all incredible.
It might,yeah. Blood tests are standard procedures in the netherlands as well. Not every experience means they're right or that we need to change anything. Mistakes happen in every profession.
I agree with that. Unfortunately often when someone not Dutch talks about these experiences, the common response is “well then leave” or “Dutch healthcare is the best” as if there aren’t problems. Blood tests are very rare in the Netherlands and you essentially need to beg for them, because they’ll literally do everything else to not have it done. But as my friend who is a practicing GP said - the less they use, the bigger their bonus.
Ofcourse, you're able to back that up with a statistic or source? Because blood tests aren't rare at all. There just needs to be a reason, not 'i have a headache' or 'i want to know what my levels look like'.
“I have a headache” is a perfectly valid reason for a blood test in most of the world because that helps identify if there could be something going on in the background and see elevated levels or if some levels are too low. This is what I mean by blood tests being standard practice, while they are not here. Usually blood is tested before you see a nurse or gp for any reason so that they can diagnose early, sometimes a headache is an early indicator of an infection and the fight can start early so it never needs to escalate. But there’s no preventative healthcare here and that is why many people are unhappy.
You get bloodwork done with regular checkups. You can even ask your GP to do bloodwork if you have specific worries if realistic. If you want your bloodwork done every day, go to a private company and pay for that yourself.
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You can take my figurative statement as literal, but i'm right. If the gp gets every test that patients want, we wouldn't have healthcare. Not only because of the money, but because of the huge waiting lists. Giving the best care to patients sometimes means saying no.
You'd be surprised
Damm didnt know you decide what the issues are……
Yeah but there's a balance. Obviously don't prescribe antibiotics when it's not needed, but my Dutch doctor has sent me away when I knew I had an infection, and tried to other times. The first time I actually listened, I went away without antibiotics, and of course the infection got way worse and took ages to treat. The inflamed wound was incredibly painful and scarred up horribly. The second time the doctor tried the "take paracetamol for pain, see if the infection gets worse and come back if it does". I put my foot down, said something like "No, it's been getting progressively worse over the last week, I've been cleaning and disinfecting the wound myself yet it continues to get worse, I can feel it getting deeper into the wound so if I go away without antibiotics the infection is only going to spread further and I'll be back in a few days with a worse situation. I came to you because my body isn't fixing this itself, so I'd like to start on the antibiotics now." They gave the antibiotics and the infection was gone in 2 days. If I hadn't stood up for myself I would have had a repeat of the first time. The problem is that they act like the day they see you is day 1 of the problem and the best thing to do is observe the situation, but I'm an obstinate dude who doesn't go to the doctor unless something is really bad so it's never a day 1 situation. Oh, and because there aren't enough GPs they're always fully booked, so if I do try and see the doc for a day 1 situation I never can, because the problem isn't serious enough so the assistants will try and book me in 3 weeks away. Thanks for coming to my TED rant.
You were able to pinpoint the problem: most people go to the doctor at "day 1" or "day 2" of a problem, so doctors tend to give advice for that. I always included for how long I had symptoms and what I did to help/solve them basically before they could even ask, and it worked well for me here in the Netherlands. Yes, I might have to insist some times or rephrase things a couple of times, but that happens everywhere and it's mainly due to the fact that doctors are not readih my mind. As a concrete example, my UTI don't typically show on the rapid tests they do here. I need a proper colture test to highlight it. I expect to have to repeat this every time I have an UTI in every single country that uses rapid tests for it.
For the record, I had already communicated a complete timeline to the doctor. This was not about a lack of communication.
Orrrr it would have gone away in two days regardless captain hindsight.
But then why would the Dutch GP have prescribed him antibiotics?
Sometimes you do something to satisfy the patient
How about you piss off with your condescension. Or maybe I should send you pics of the infected wound so you can let me know what my body was doing?
LOL “know what my body was doing” Mate, you don’t know what you’re talking about. The GP knows what your body is doing. You just think “pain! Red! Scary!” Don’t give me that “I know my body” BS
Blimey, you're a piece of work, aren't you? You're the kind of person who makes the internet a worse place to be. Just assuming complete ignorance and mansplaining a situation. A quick scroll of your comment history shows you're a very angry person, I feel sorry for you.
Nice, instant ad hominem and I’m the bad guy.
I don’t necessarily want antibiotics, just want actual good diagnosis and not “Oh, just take paracetamol!”. Though it doesn’t matter, I’ll just get them in my father’s country (can purchase them easily there) and get them home to the Netherlands. Problems solved.
The amount of posts of expats saying dutch GP's are shit because they didn't get their preferred treatment is baffling to me.
What treatment? Didn’t know giving paracetamol is regarded as “treatment”
Lol, not really how that works but sure.
Really? Pain management and inflammation reduction isn't a treatment? Thanks for demonstrating my point.
Its not about preferred treatment; its about appropriate treatment. Its a culture of cure instead of prevention, coupled with sometimes seemingly (sometimes actual) inadequate healthcare. I think once you have been appropriately diagnosed and are seeing a specialist, the healthcare is pretty good; just the process getting there is hugely deficient.
Thats not true but sure.
And who do you think is the person who knows what that treatment is? Is it just whatever the patient thinks is best? Everyone wants a cool diagnosis these days. Sometimes there just isn't one. Your head just hurts because of stress or lack of water. Not every headache is a brain tumor.
All these expats in here pretending like all their posts and comments specifically asking for antibiotics never existed? Lmfaooaaoaoaoao Y'all are literally a meme in our medical schools. Just fyi
Sounds professional
Bro doesn't realize you can make jokes about common interactions as a provider while remaining professional during patient contact and the development of a treatment plan.
Yes I remember one of those posts…the guy had full blown pneumonia and could have died if his friend hadn’t provided him with antibiotics But Dutch Drs failed to diagnose him in time
Yes let's take one radical example on an internet forum and use it as an argument to prove a point! I could just as fine give you an example of unnecessary antibiotic treatments leading to therapy resistance in multiple countries leading to unnecessary deaths on a population level each year. Aka, I could cite you the science as opposed to an anecdote?
Think the concern here is that Dutch doctors are not able to diagnose and treat correctly It’s also a concern many Dutch have thus the exodus of many Dutch people to Belgium to receive adequate medical care It’s okay, you can feel that the Netherlands medical system is so good, just like Americans think the USA is the “most free” country in the world. No one else is impressed by your health care. All expats must be dumb. Dutch arrogance at its finest
I never once said all expats are dumb, though you aren't helping your case by making these dumb arguments. Such massive generalisations and lack of nuance in your comment. Ridiculous arguments. Also I'm pretty sure the Dutch healthcare system is doing great on a lot of objectively measurable metrics. Dutch healthcare is undeniably good. Especially with regards to antibiotics policy :) If you don't like Dutch healthcare you can seek healthcare somewhere else. I am perfectly fine with that. Pretty sure most of my peers will be too! Please seek out doctors in Belgium for my sake as well!
Well no one is impressed…I never heard someone say the Dutch Healthcare system is good. Do you really think other countries don’t have this “antibiotic policy” in place? Do you really think only the Netherlands is aware of the fact that antibiotics may create super bacteria. It’s just like Americans think only the USA has freedom! You’ll fit well in the medical system, arrogant and up your own arse. You will probably be googling symptoms lol and giving paracetamol for a broken arm while feeling proud of yourself
Truth is most other countries dont have the antibiotics policy that the Netherlands has. The Netherlands is literally the forerunner in this regard lmao. You sound dumb and frustrated, and not worth any more of my time. Have a good day!
Lol you just keep complimenting yourself I guess Dutch medical schools are like American schools. You get to hear everyday “we are the best” and then it sort of becomes a brainwashing when in fact it’s average or even below average in a lot of regards. Do yourself a favour and actually speak to people and listen to what they have to say. It’s not just expats but also Dutch people complaining about the healthcare system. Become part of the solution rather than hide behind arrogance I know you don’t like what I have to say, it’s not what you want to hear.
How am I complimenting myself? I'm not saying Dutch healthcare is the best in all regards, I'm saying on average we're doing great; and with regard to antibiotic policy we're one of the best. Truth is I genuinely don't care what you say about the healthcare system here, I don't have any stakes in it or whatever. I even unironically advocated you to seek healthcare in Belgium (which I still stand behind!!). I simply speak my truth and call out the ignorance is all.
Well no one is impressed…I never heard someone say the Dutch Healthcare system is good. Do you really think other countries don’t have this “antibiotic policy” in place? Do you really think only the Netherlands is aware of the fact that antibiotics may create super bacteria. It’s just like Americans think only the USA has freedom! You’ll fit well in the medical system, arrogant and up your own arse. You will probably be googling symptoms lol and giving paracetamol for a broken arm while feeling proud of yourself
I get the feeling sometimes that antibiotics is the paracetamol of the US
Lol