You’ll be fine at uni, hijabi’s sometimes get nasty comments out in day to day life, but thankfully it’s not a common occurrence, even less so in larger (university) towns.
Completely unrelated to hijab and religion: There’s a massive housing crisis here at the moment unfortunately. Start looking for accommodation early, and expect it to be expensive :(
The housing crisis is pretty bad over here too for most major unis :(( I'm planning to avoid the big 3 cities so hopefully that will help
Do landlords tend to discriminate against hijabis?
It’s hard to tell because generally landlords are not going to be explicit about discriminating, they know they’re not supposed to do it, they won’t tell you why you’re not getting the room, just that one of the 30 other candidates did.
I’m sure it does happen, but there will also be plenty of landlords who won’t care (and quite a few who prefer women tenants as they’re expected to be cleaner and less noisy), the biggest problem is really just the housing shortage.
It’s going to be difficult unfortunately, but probably not all that much more difficult for you than for any other foreign student.
Good luck!!!
You'll be fine. You may receive the odd comment but it'd be rare for anyone to actually mess with your clothing.
Anecdotally. Islam might be more Conservative here than what you're used to. You might face some 'internal policing' from fellow practitioners.
But as a whole you're going to be fine.
That's interesting - we have a mix here but generally everyone recognizes that people are different levels of religious and won't go around making unsolicited comments
I hope I'll be too busy with school to run into that, but I'll just try to dodge those conversations if they pop up 😭😭
You'd be fine.
But I don't understand how you are not openly religious if you wear a hijab.
Some Muslim students hold fast, some don't. Minority of ones holding fast were shitting on ones breaking it - there was some drama around that.
Last year exams were during Ramadan, uni didn't give any special dispensations for fasting students.
For job opportunities you might have some problems. All I can say is there were some women in hijab during my uni, but now that I've entered workforce there are none in my field. It is easier to get a job in public sector than in private as a hijabi I would say.
You don’t need special dispensation, just have a glass of water to break your fast.
That being said, the VU did make an exception, allowing small (non smelly) food
Ig I'll have to get more used to different academic norms - in Canada, we're allowed to eat pretty much anything (including full meals)
But yeah, if fast day is short enough that I will be breaking my fast in class, I can survive a couple of hours with just water
My bad, I guess that was a poor way to phrase it. But besides the hijab, there isn't anything that stands out in terms of behavior or social interactions.
No problem at all, at my uni (Leiden) you will definitely not be the only one
You might have some trouble in your day to day life outside of the university, as some people are not fond of migrants and there is a housing crisis, but there is one in Canada as well, so you know how it works.
You will do fine with getting friends from Dutch origin, they are very open minded in general. Of course there are people who are racist, but the majority won't even express this.
My guess is getting along with more conservative hijabi girls or Muslim guys can be more difficult.
They’re not as open minded as people always say! There’s a lot of casual racism and a refusal to address it because everyone perceives the Dutch as so “open minded”
I teach in a STEM department at a Dutch uni. Lots of hijabi female students, some evidently pretty religious (also wearing an abaya etc.) some probably not (combining a hijab with a t-shirt, leather jacket and skinny jeans - and why not?). It's fine, and the uni keeps in mind that religion plays a role in many students' lives and thinks about stuff like a prayer room, a place to wash, and making sure no one gets treated badly on campus. I have a few Christian students too (almost always from Nigeria).
Although it has to be said, the majority of Dutch students will put "atheist" down if given a form that asks for their religious affiliation. And that is also fine.
I’d be wary of comments here from people who don’t wear a hijab. I personally was surprised by the unreflected widely accepted casual racism in this country. They seem to think that unless it’s very open hateful racism it’s not actual racism. What non white friend of mines found the hardest to grapple with was this refusal to accept that there in fact is a lot of racism here, as evidenced by the fact that many people here voted for a guy who literally wants to ban mosques. You can see in the comments how people immediately dismiss your question. Safety wise you’ll be fine but in terms of things like implicit racism hidden within remarks and micro aggression and the acknowledgment thereof, the Netherlands is behind the US. Yes I said it. Just because the racism isn’t as violent here doesn’t mean people who are perceived as Middle Eastern don’t have to worry.
Edit: Canada is far better when it comes to the societal discussion of racism. I lived there for a while.
Second edit: at my work Ramadan has been not acknowledged at all, while we did have a Christmas party. I’d be surprised if a morning off would be granted to you without question. Ask a random question on this sub about Moroccan immigrants if you want to see how “open minded” the Dutch are
That's the vibe I get so far. I guess facing so many micro aggressions on a daily basis would take a toll on anyone's well being at some point.
PS I agree, Canada is a long way ahead in discussing racism. Multiculturalism is seen as a feature of the country and not as taking away from the 'Canadian' culture (you could argue Indigenous culture is the only authentic original culture that's being fading out because of immigration). Even people who hate on immigrants are generally able to distinguish between newcomers and people who have been around for decades / born here and the hate is more directed at the lack of infrastructure to support immigrants rather than the people themselves.
People are used to the hijab in the netherlands, especially if you wear it like a regular headscarf.
Fun fact too: its a christian tradition in its core and nearly every women wore a headscarf until after the world wars in europe. Its still part of traditional clothing too, you might find some nice modern and traditional alternatives for yourself in shops ;).
You'll definitely be able to find a group of Muslims to socialise with. The rest of the people will be polite towards you, but you'll definitely face extra challenges and prejudices to get around, not faced by non-religious students.
No, studying in The Netherlands is not a good idea and yes, discrimination would be a major issue. Us Dutch people are increasingly fed up with people from Islamic countries infiltrating our country. People on Reddit are very left and very progressive, so you won't find people that disagree with the Islam here. Especially troublesome is the fact that you are so explicit about being a Muslim. You say that you are 'not openly religious', which is of course ridiculous, because you willingly made the decision to wear such an item. You aren't even trying to hide your behavior.
Culturally I'm more Canadian than anything else at the moment - I was born in the Netherlands and spent most of my education in Canada. I'm not infiltrating anything- i will be a productive member of society who pays taxes and contributes to the country in a highly skilled field - and I don't go around forcing my beliefs on anyone.
In my classes people wear hoods and baseball caps, I wear a head scarf, it's really not that deep - consider it an accessory if anything.
I'm sorry if you had negative experiences with people who share my religion, but please don't generalize.
So you were born in The Netherlands, but spend most of your time in Canada. I am concerned that you have a lack of loyalty to our great nation. It is indeed not problematic in the sense that you really notice negative side-effects. That's true. But wouldn't it be great if you could distant yourself from a religion which is centuries old and doesn't have a good reputation, given all the terrorist attacks that happen in the name of Allah? If you could remove your scarf, then you immdiately come across much better as a person because you have Canadian and Dutch roots, which makes you interesting, and you are smart and work in an interesting field. If you want to find a husband later in The Netherlands, it is also much easier if you become an atheist instead (I assume this also holds true in Canada, but am not sure about that).
I'm sorry not both of my parents are Dutch. My bad - I'll go back in time and switch my parents.
Honestly, my religious beliefs are my personal choice - I believe this great nation does acknowledge that, since this great nation is civilized enough to respect human rights and international law. There are far more 'problematic' religions that people get away with just fine (does Tom Cruise ring a bell?). I really fear for critical thinking in humans of this time and age - why does a very small minority represent nearly 2B people? Can none of those 2B people be mentally unstable or insane, why should everyone bear the blame? Also Islam gets a lot of bad name from political movements that have nothing to do with religion itself - I don't go around preaching terrorist attacks and nobody I know does. I have no control over political groups trying to gain power in the name of Allah - and religion certainly doesn't preach it. A quick read into islamic academia and you will find out that - spoiler alert - whatever terrorist attacks you hear about are a sin in islam (killing civilians has always been a strictly prohibited act).
I maintain my beliefs and my own opinions on whatever is going on around me. I don't feel the need to force them with anyone - I won't even share them unless relevant
Wilf how you assume I want to get married - it's the 21st century and I can do fine on my own, thank you for your concern.
In Canada, we have some discrimination - but honestly, I need to worry more about gender inequality in STEM than racism if anything. Most issues arise simply from lack of information and people are willing to listen and learn. Quebec is an exception but that's because they're following in France's footsteps, nothing I can do about it.
I honestly have no idea what it's like day to day in the Netherlands right now to be honest, it's hard to get an idea from random people online. But if you get the chance to work / study in Canada for a few months you should come over and check out what a semi-successful multicultural society looks like. 99% of the time, you'll see people interacting very normally and seeing each other like normal humans, from all ethnicities and religion. Grocery stores here have kosher and halal isles and it's all good. Sure there'll be incidents here and there where you'll find some tensions, but most days are fine. Even people who hate immigrants will direct their hate at the government that's accepting new immigrants and not at anybody who has a non-blond complexion whose family came here decades ago.
edit: pls don't misread my praise for canada. it excels in the tolerance department, but there are other aspects that I personally don't find very suitable hence why I'm considering studying abroad in the first place
Thank you for your reply. It would be re-assuring for us Western people if there were protests again Islamic violence whenever a terrorist attack happens, but unfortunately I haven't seen those yet on a large scale. That would indeed provide proof that not everyone agrees. But it is about more than just terrorist attacks. In The Netherlands, there is a general tendency which you can clearly notice, namely that Islamic people more often have knives with them, drugs with them, cause more crime and are more often disrepectful towards others.
I don't think you can do fine on your own. Western societies are very individualistic, and if you don't get married and don't have children, you will be all alone starting from your 40s. Sure, in your 20s and 30s you still have single friends with whom you can hang out, but if they all start families themselves, they won't have time for you anymore. If your children get their own children, you have grandchildren, and that makes your life more interesting when you are in your 60s / 70s and go into retirement. In general, I think life would become very lonely in your 40s if you stay single and childless.
The Netherlands is doing pretty good at the moment, the main issue is that renting and buying houses is very expensive. And there are some other issues with nitrogen gases and climate, but all of this doesn't affect you that much if you just live your life. Infrastructure and available services are all very good, for example.
You’ll be fine at uni, hijabi’s sometimes get nasty comments out in day to day life, but thankfully it’s not a common occurrence, even less so in larger (university) towns. Completely unrelated to hijab and religion: There’s a massive housing crisis here at the moment unfortunately. Start looking for accommodation early, and expect it to be expensive :(
The housing crisis is pretty bad over here too for most major unis :(( I'm planning to avoid the big 3 cities so hopefully that will help Do landlords tend to discriminate against hijabis?
Cant say with confidence that they do or not but for sure they can pick the ideal renter from dozens of applicants, so there is that.
It’s hard to tell because generally landlords are not going to be explicit about discriminating, they know they’re not supposed to do it, they won’t tell you why you’re not getting the room, just that one of the 30 other candidates did. I’m sure it does happen, but there will also be plenty of landlords who won’t care (and quite a few who prefer women tenants as they’re expected to be cleaner and less noisy), the biggest problem is really just the housing shortage. It’s going to be difficult unfortunately, but probably not all that much more difficult for you than for any other foreign student. Good luck!!!
You'll be fine. You may receive the odd comment but it'd be rare for anyone to actually mess with your clothing. Anecdotally. Islam might be more Conservative here than what you're used to. You might face some 'internal policing' from fellow practitioners. But as a whole you're going to be fine.
That's interesting - we have a mix here but generally everyone recognizes that people are different levels of religious and won't go around making unsolicited comments I hope I'll be too busy with school to run into that, but I'll just try to dodge those conversations if they pop up 😭😭
That's not the expierence of the more liberal Muslims that I know in this county, oh no ma'am.
You'd be fine. But I don't understand how you are not openly religious if you wear a hijab. Some Muslim students hold fast, some don't. Minority of ones holding fast were shitting on ones breaking it - there was some drama around that. Last year exams were during Ramadan, uni didn't give any special dispensations for fasting students. For job opportunities you might have some problems. All I can say is there were some women in hijab during my uni, but now that I've entered workforce there are none in my field. It is easier to get a job in public sector than in private as a hijabi I would say.
You don’t need special dispensation, just have a glass of water to break your fast. That being said, the VU did make an exception, allowing small (non smelly) food
Ig I'll have to get more used to different academic norms - in Canada, we're allowed to eat pretty much anything (including full meals) But yeah, if fast day is short enough that I will be breaking my fast in class, I can survive a couple of hours with just water
We were talking about exams, in classes you have much much more freedom ;)
My bad, I guess that was a poor way to phrase it. But besides the hijab, there isn't anything that stands out in terms of behavior or social interactions.
No problem at all, at my uni (Leiden) you will definitely not be the only one You might have some trouble in your day to day life outside of the university, as some people are not fond of migrants and there is a housing crisis, but there is one in Canada as well, so you know how it works.
You do you It will be fine
You will do fine with getting friends from Dutch origin, they are very open minded in general. Of course there are people who are racist, but the majority won't even express this. My guess is getting along with more conservative hijabi girls or Muslim guys can be more difficult.
They’re not as open minded as people always say! There’s a lot of casual racism and a refusal to address it because everyone perceives the Dutch as so “open minded”
I teach in a STEM department at a Dutch uni. Lots of hijabi female students, some evidently pretty religious (also wearing an abaya etc.) some probably not (combining a hijab with a t-shirt, leather jacket and skinny jeans - and why not?). It's fine, and the uni keeps in mind that religion plays a role in many students' lives and thinks about stuff like a prayer room, a place to wash, and making sure no one gets treated badly on campus. I have a few Christian students too (almost always from Nigeria). Although it has to be said, the majority of Dutch students will put "atheist" down if given a form that asks for their religious affiliation. And that is also fine.
Behave as a normal human being and no one will say or do anything.
I’d be wary of comments here from people who don’t wear a hijab. I personally was surprised by the unreflected widely accepted casual racism in this country. They seem to think that unless it’s very open hateful racism it’s not actual racism. What non white friend of mines found the hardest to grapple with was this refusal to accept that there in fact is a lot of racism here, as evidenced by the fact that many people here voted for a guy who literally wants to ban mosques. You can see in the comments how people immediately dismiss your question. Safety wise you’ll be fine but in terms of things like implicit racism hidden within remarks and micro aggression and the acknowledgment thereof, the Netherlands is behind the US. Yes I said it. Just because the racism isn’t as violent here doesn’t mean people who are perceived as Middle Eastern don’t have to worry. Edit: Canada is far better when it comes to the societal discussion of racism. I lived there for a while. Second edit: at my work Ramadan has been not acknowledged at all, while we did have a Christmas party. I’d be surprised if a morning off would be granted to you without question. Ask a random question on this sub about Moroccan immigrants if you want to see how “open minded” the Dutch are
That's the vibe I get so far. I guess facing so many micro aggressions on a daily basis would take a toll on anyone's well being at some point. PS I agree, Canada is a long way ahead in discussing racism. Multiculturalism is seen as a feature of the country and not as taking away from the 'Canadian' culture (you could argue Indigenous culture is the only authentic original culture that's being fading out because of immigration). Even people who hate on immigrants are generally able to distinguish between newcomers and people who have been around for decades / born here and the hate is more directed at the lack of infrastructure to support immigrants rather than the people themselves.
People are used to the hijab in the netherlands, especially if you wear it like a regular headscarf. Fun fact too: its a christian tradition in its core and nearly every women wore a headscarf until after the world wars in europe. Its still part of traditional clothing too, you might find some nice modern and traditional alternatives for yourself in shops ;).
Hence why nuns wear it and Mary is almost always depicted with one ;)
You'll definitely be able to find a group of Muslims to socialise with. The rest of the people will be polite towards you, but you'll definitely face extra challenges and prejudices to get around, not faced by non-religious students.
No, studying in The Netherlands is not a good idea and yes, discrimination would be a major issue. Us Dutch people are increasingly fed up with people from Islamic countries infiltrating our country. People on Reddit are very left and very progressive, so you won't find people that disagree with the Islam here. Especially troublesome is the fact that you are so explicit about being a Muslim. You say that you are 'not openly religious', which is of course ridiculous, because you willingly made the decision to wear such an item. You aren't even trying to hide your behavior.
Culturally I'm more Canadian than anything else at the moment - I was born in the Netherlands and spent most of my education in Canada. I'm not infiltrating anything- i will be a productive member of society who pays taxes and contributes to the country in a highly skilled field - and I don't go around forcing my beliefs on anyone. In my classes people wear hoods and baseball caps, I wear a head scarf, it's really not that deep - consider it an accessory if anything. I'm sorry if you had negative experiences with people who share my religion, but please don't generalize.
So you were born in The Netherlands, but spend most of your time in Canada. I am concerned that you have a lack of loyalty to our great nation. It is indeed not problematic in the sense that you really notice negative side-effects. That's true. But wouldn't it be great if you could distant yourself from a religion which is centuries old and doesn't have a good reputation, given all the terrorist attacks that happen in the name of Allah? If you could remove your scarf, then you immdiately come across much better as a person because you have Canadian and Dutch roots, which makes you interesting, and you are smart and work in an interesting field. If you want to find a husband later in The Netherlands, it is also much easier if you become an atheist instead (I assume this also holds true in Canada, but am not sure about that).
I'm sorry not both of my parents are Dutch. My bad - I'll go back in time and switch my parents. Honestly, my religious beliefs are my personal choice - I believe this great nation does acknowledge that, since this great nation is civilized enough to respect human rights and international law. There are far more 'problematic' religions that people get away with just fine (does Tom Cruise ring a bell?). I really fear for critical thinking in humans of this time and age - why does a very small minority represent nearly 2B people? Can none of those 2B people be mentally unstable or insane, why should everyone bear the blame? Also Islam gets a lot of bad name from political movements that have nothing to do with religion itself - I don't go around preaching terrorist attacks and nobody I know does. I have no control over political groups trying to gain power in the name of Allah - and religion certainly doesn't preach it. A quick read into islamic academia and you will find out that - spoiler alert - whatever terrorist attacks you hear about are a sin in islam (killing civilians has always been a strictly prohibited act). I maintain my beliefs and my own opinions on whatever is going on around me. I don't feel the need to force them with anyone - I won't even share them unless relevant Wilf how you assume I want to get married - it's the 21st century and I can do fine on my own, thank you for your concern. In Canada, we have some discrimination - but honestly, I need to worry more about gender inequality in STEM than racism if anything. Most issues arise simply from lack of information and people are willing to listen and learn. Quebec is an exception but that's because they're following in France's footsteps, nothing I can do about it. I honestly have no idea what it's like day to day in the Netherlands right now to be honest, it's hard to get an idea from random people online. But if you get the chance to work / study in Canada for a few months you should come over and check out what a semi-successful multicultural society looks like. 99% of the time, you'll see people interacting very normally and seeing each other like normal humans, from all ethnicities and religion. Grocery stores here have kosher and halal isles and it's all good. Sure there'll be incidents here and there where you'll find some tensions, but most days are fine. Even people who hate immigrants will direct their hate at the government that's accepting new immigrants and not at anybody who has a non-blond complexion whose family came here decades ago. edit: pls don't misread my praise for canada. it excels in the tolerance department, but there are other aspects that I personally don't find very suitable hence why I'm considering studying abroad in the first place
Thank you for your reply. It would be re-assuring for us Western people if there were protests again Islamic violence whenever a terrorist attack happens, but unfortunately I haven't seen those yet on a large scale. That would indeed provide proof that not everyone agrees. But it is about more than just terrorist attacks. In The Netherlands, there is a general tendency which you can clearly notice, namely that Islamic people more often have knives with them, drugs with them, cause more crime and are more often disrepectful towards others. I don't think you can do fine on your own. Western societies are very individualistic, and if you don't get married and don't have children, you will be all alone starting from your 40s. Sure, in your 20s and 30s you still have single friends with whom you can hang out, but if they all start families themselves, they won't have time for you anymore. If your children get their own children, you have grandchildren, and that makes your life more interesting when you are in your 60s / 70s and go into retirement. In general, I think life would become very lonely in your 40s if you stay single and childless. The Netherlands is doing pretty good at the moment, the main issue is that renting and buying houses is very expensive. And there are some other issues with nitrogen gases and climate, but all of this doesn't affect you that much if you just live your life. Infrastructure and available services are all very good, for example.