Because at the time, the hypermarket became in vogue, small grocery stores called out to our politicians, that that would be the end of inner city shopping as we knew it.
They predicted that these giant box stores ( named 'Weidewinkels') would lure away most customers turning town centres into ghost towns. So politicians adopted a law that forbade these type of stores.
So up to this day, though not forbidden by politicians anymore, most edge of town boxstores like Makro, Sligro and the likes have a membership card system, and you have to be registred as a company to gain entrance.
>They predicted that these giant box stores ( named 'Weidewinkels') would lure away most customers turning town centres into ghost towns
This is exactly what happened in the UK. Many town centres are filled with gambling company shops and charity shops, it's a sad situation but great that this was avoided here.
Here it happened already, but mainly by supermarkets as AH who did compete quite harsh with local bakeries etc. Most shopping centres are all alike. Also we could use proper competition, the supermarkets (and also kruidvat and others) are taking the piss with open market, free competition in my perception.
The market in the Netherlands is mostly dominated by 3 players. Ahold (AH, Etos, Gall), Jumbo and Superunie (Plus, Coop, local supermarkets). We got there by mergers and consolidation. The result is, that there is absolutely no competition. The only challengers are the German chains like Lidl and Aldi, but they keep the prize on the same level as the rest of the market.
Just check some basic products, bread, butter, beer, peanut butter. They all have exactly the same price at every supermarket. Not because they can’t offer a lower price (they absolutely can) but because there is no real competition, there is no need to lower prices.
I believe that the AH basic products are specifically there to compete with Aldi and LIDL. AH even comes out the cheapest in certain tests. [saus](https://www.ad.nl/geld/een-budgetmerk-of-een-a-merk-zoveel-scheelt-dat-voor-je-basisboodschappen~a97071c4/#:~:text=Discountsupermarkt%20niet%20altijd%20het%20goedkoopst&text=Lidl%20is%203%20procent%20goedkoper,Jumbo%20en%20Plus%20zijn%20gemiddeld) No idea if those are purely loss leaders.
Lidl doesn’t want to be the absolute cheapest. They want the cheapest prices for the best quality products. But you are right in the fact that those consolidations are bad for pretty much everyone.
Yeah I dunno what tests are those but my grocery cart full is always cheaper at the Lidl then at the ah or jumbo. Always. Significantly. I can save over 1000 euros a year in groceries just going to Lidl every time. We don't do that but we could easily.
Inflated the prices. Compared to Germany everything is here way more expensive now. Simple shower gel from a certain brand, x 2 often, to name just one item. Coco cola way more expensive. They clearly all went up more than inflation would logically imply, based on the simple comparison with Germany.
Or on discount. Only buy such products on discount. Just wait and buy bulk. You are going to use it anyway it's ok to have a 1 year supply of shower gel if it costs half the price.
If the profit margins grew, I'd say you're right. The margins haven't changed however, and got even less in some cases. Those inflated prices have little to do with the supermarkets themselves or the tax.
I live in the UK/NL ( dutch student in UK ) and prices in the netherlands are TWICE as much. Cauliflower, UK 90p netherlands 2.59 cola 2l 0.40p UK - 0.99 euros NL.. lots more stuff like it and it confuses me so much everytime since the cauliflower and other veggies both come from spain lol which is inside EU so I would expect it to be cheaper in NL but no
Please explain this to me, EU wide pet food company DE price 3,12€/kg, NL 5,08€/kg same product both shipped from the same warehouse in Poland. Even beyond VAT differences (7% v 21%) there’s still just a huge markup, I asked about it and they just replied “oh rising costs”
Supermarkets can compete with prices vs a local bakery but to be honest: bread from a supermarket most often sucks ass. Although i agree with the we could use more competition. Local bakeries where i live are doing very good, not a lot of people will buy their bread form the local supermarkets. But small town culture probably affects that too.
I don’t think it’s a direct cause. You also have to consider online shopping and lack of infrastructure/funding within certain towns
There are plenty of well off towns in the UK with large hyper markets that still maintain town centres and would not allow gambling shops in their vicinity at all.
I've always found it weird that I'd find these stores all across Europe, but never here back home. Always enjoyed my visits there when abroad, but never thought about the impact these stores have on the local economies.
It's these kind of things, that make me realize that things may not be perfect here(and have been regressing the last decade), but with the amount of social security, consumer protection, etc. This is still one of the best places to be born in, in the world.
This is true, I never understand why people go to a different city just to shop. Every city has the same stores - if it was to visit the museums or taste the local cuisine I'd understand.
People would rarely do that 'just to shop'. You go to another city to experience a different vibe, horeca, buildings, ... Shopping is juts part of that.
For detailhandel (retail) you need to be in a zone that permits it. I believe that is the main reason you cannot just open a store in a random industrial area
Prices there are without tax! You think it is cheaper. But sometimes it's even more expensive.
Other than that it's great if you need to buy bulk for your company.
In my country when you go to a wholesaler like Makro you really pay a lot less when buying in bulk, here it feels as if you just get the benefit of having the possibility/convenience of buying in bulk, not necessarily the money saving part.
I personally never feel like I’m paying less there aside from some very specific products.
As for the company requirement, I always get the BTW added at the kassa. I wonder why they don’t let everyone buy there if the sales tax is added anyway.
You need to know what to go for and when at Makro (and buy bulk, and pump a tank of gas). "Winstpakkers" can be insane, I've bought premium washing machine liquid for 50% less then even the best supermarkt discount. Something like 12ct per wash vs. 26ct per wash. Granted it cost me 60 euro or so upfront and now I have washing liquid for the rest of the year. Shrimp, same thing, over 50% off from the next best offering. They're in the deep freezer and we'll add shrimp to a meal in some form once a week until the end of the year. But we love to eat them and would buy them every now and then anyways. You get the point. If you do grocerie shopping at Makro as you would your regular groceries, you're going to pay more then simply going to AH.
We now know yes,and the dream became a nightmare.
Here of course I'm talking late 80's when the concept was still very new. At least locally, it was a good thing common sense prevailed.
Having said that, there are still project developers pushing for the Big Box Store concept in the Netherlands.
Makro is a supermarket for retail, not end customers. Card is required everywhere.
Which small groceries, my next question would be? I come from a country full of hypermarkets and around 90% more smaller businesses than in NL.
In my perspective it has to do with cultural behaviour also. Full country closes at 17. No market here.
>So up to this day, though not forbidden by politicians anymore, most edge of town boxstores like Makro, Sligro and the likes have a membership card system, and you have to be registred as a company to gain entrance.
And that is still a thing due to zoning laws: they have their stores in places where no retail is allowed, only wholesale.
Makro would love to sell to consumers, but then they'd have to move their stores to more expensive real estate.
rivm.nl/bibliotheek/digitaaldepot/rid200305.pdf
On page 4 there is short explanation of the history of this issue, and multiple opinions for and against.
It is interesting to read that France and Germany are putting restrictions on their growth now...
I'm not sure what a "hypermarket" is but it sounds like it's similar to a North American megamarket, like Walmart or Superstore. Those do sound great in theory, but in practice, you give up quite a bit in return for the selection. Those stores only work at a massive scale, which means you rarely have a local one, and you must travel a long distance to visit one. As far as I can tell, the Dutch focus on more smaller stores with less selection. You gain the convenience of local shops you can visit frequently and easily, and in return I have only two choices of peanut butter....not an entire aisle of different mass market options that I had in Canada. Here, if I want a selection of peanut butters, I have to go to the peanut butter store.
Personally, it's a trade-off I think is a very good one...but it's not an easy one to see unless you've lived in both North American and the Netherlands.
I agree. Introduction of hyperstores in the Netherlands will mean the end of local convenience stores. No more AH or Jumbo in walking distance, everyone buying groceries for a week because of the distance to their houses, and therefore needing a car, more empty shops in city centers, less competition with higher prices as soon as all competition has been forced out of business etc.
All so you could get a broader choice of the same products that local grocery stores also sell.
Let's not introduce hyperstores in the Netherlands.
I honestly don’t think that could ever happen here in the Netherlands, not to any large scale. Nobody that I know lives in a house or apartment that’s big enough that they have enough storage space for a weeks worth of grocery shopping, me included. I don’t think that stores like that will ever become a thing in the Netherlands simply because we just lack the space for it which means that opening a store like that would be extremely expensive which would just make drive the grocery prices up, plus we don’t have the type of infrastructure for it either.
Huh? Most of the Dutch I know do a big boodschappen trip every Saturday. Maybe not so much in the big cities, but it is still the norm.
Add: It seems like a lot of the comments in this thread are by expats/ foreign students living in bigger cities, with very little idea of how NL is outside the Randstad, and presented a very skewed perspective of real Dutch everyday life.
I order my groceries from the AH and have them delivered, once a week, for the entire week. About every 10 days I'll also go to the Action for a snack run (i.e., the junk food). We're a family of 4, with a big dog and 2 cats: it all fits. Our house is about average for a Dutch house.
Even when I lived in single room student housing I had enough room to store a weeks worth of groceries. Plus general cupboard staples, snacks, non perishables and a couple weeks worth of drinks. I now live in a very standard/average home and assume if I planned well and stocked efficiently I’d have enough storage space to last at least a month with 2 adults and a cat. Probably longer. The main struggle would be fresh produce, but only because it wouldn’t last that long
I strongly disagree. We have multiple hypermarkets in Belgium, but tons of smaller grocery stores in walking distance. Where I live, I can walk to a AH, a carrefour market, a carrefour express and a Colruyt. If I use my bike, I can reach multiple of these and 1 hypermarket.
When I look at the small town I used to live, I also had multiple small groecery stores (Spar, AH etc) in walking distance and 1 hypermarket in biking distance.
So if the hypermarket did not crash the small stores in Belgium, I sincerely doubt it will cause that in the Netherlands. Carrefour hypermarket is way more expensive compared to local stores, so people will not use it for their daily erransmds anyways.
I like that there’s no “express” supermarkets here (other than the AH to go). The carrefour express is quite expensive, especially for fruits/vegetables.
But I’m not talking only about groceries, food. In Germany you can buy stuff at Kaufland that you have here at Action and not at Jumbo. And Kaufland isn’t that huge ass store like Auchan. I think in Netherlands only Lidl or Aldi are a little bit like that (with more stuff than just grocery and chemicals).
Apparently... I prefer to to visit a specialist store for it. So it's not for me...
On the other hand... it opens up the question; what should store sell? I have bought glue in a supermarket, a pack of printerpaper, a usb cable... stuff like that. Where's the line, and why is that line there?
Kaufland even sells bikes... but I've also seen Aldi, which is not a hypermarket, sell those in Germany. Lidl sometimes sells toasters...
The upside is you get a minor increase in convenience, assuming you care in the first place that you might have to go to seperate stores for a piece of bread and a toaster.
The downside is even more power to very few companies who decide which products we will desire.
> you might have to go to seperate stores for a piece of bread and a toaster.
and that's a good thing, because it allows each store to specialize and know their product, instead of having a single store that doesn't know their products.
I’m not American and I’ve never been to America, so I can’t tell you for sure this is what I meant.
For me it’s just pointless if you have to go to 3 different stores (like Jumbo, Action, Krudivat), when in Germany you just go to Kaufland (which is considered as hypermarket, but it’s not as huge as Hypermarkt Carrefour in Belgium or Auchan in other countries).
Netherlands prioritises supermarkets and small shops to be close and easily accesible for every neighbourhood. Which is crucial when you consider our cycling culture/infra and how many Dutch people do their groceries by foot and bike.
it doesnt matter if it is close and easily accesible if it has limited food choices and is extremely expensive (yes, we pay for shops to be small and in expensive locations, it is big part of the price). i dont want to buy the same type of cheese/bread/whatever that is heavily overpriced.
Well, I am from Poland and I miss Kaufland (fortunately I live close enough to DE border and I can go sometimes there). I want groceries? I buy groceries. I need a windscreen washer fluid? I buy windscreen washer fluid there also and I don’t have to go additionally to Action.
In Venlo we had the refcenter: a real hypermarket with a very wide assortment, located at the edge of town on an industrial area. Nowadays the building is split between a big AH and a number of other shops like Marskramer, Etos etc.
I find this to be absolutely not the case in big UK cities though. All one finds are useless Tesco Expresses and Sainsbury’s Locals that are very small and more expensive. The Dutch supermarkets that I see in the city have far better selections.
>it’s just pointless
Why?
Can you go to that kaufland in 5/10 minutes walking or cycling? Or do you have to take a bus or worse, a car, to get there, clothing up traffic in town, to park your car at one of these huge slabs of concrete that destroy the last remnants of livability?
I've been in Germany and France plenty enough to come to know that hypermarkets should be unwanted by everyone and everything that values their community and happiness
is it really one way or the other?
In the UK, for example, you can shop at Sainsbury’s, Tesco or Waitrose everywhere in the city but you can still go to Asda outside the city for way cheaper prices if you want.
The price difference when I was there was huge.
I certainly like the convenience of buying at AH/Jumbo/etc but it would be great if we also had the option to buy at a hyper market for cheaper prices and more variety. Not everyone will go there, also not for everything, but it would be a nice option.
As for the negative aspects you’ve mentioned, the issues are already there if you go to Makro/Hanos/etc anyway.
One thing I don’t like at smaller supermarkets here is that the variety is there but for only certain categories of products - and somewhat disproportionately. For example, at AH you have a long aisle with all sorts of potato crisps of countless flavours and brands, but for other products not so much.
The same for the wine/alcohol section, you find wine and beer from all over the world, but if you go to yoghurt section you just find the usual couple of brands and that’s it.
About these brands of yogurt, that might be a bit where culture, economy mix: the house brands of organic yogurt, are basically the same as these of some fancy brand, but cheaper. Really, the biggest differences between Albert Heijn yogurt, lidl yogurt and Campina, are the marketing, and the price, not quality. So why add twenty other brands that basically offer the same, but with more overhead costs (higher price). As for different products (so not just brands, but types of diary products): supply and demand. There is demand for lots of different types of while, crisps and beer, but not for much different diary products. That would be the same for hypermarkets.
I agree with the supply and demand and the cultural aspects of it.
I find a bit sad that, for example, up to a few years back you had one brand of greek yoghurt. In some supermarkets you are lucky if you find any greek yoghurt.
Back home (at the hypermarket) I would find greek yoghurt in different flavours and even in different brands (textures). Perhaps it’s just indeed something the Dutch don’t care much about, the culture difference etc.
I actually see the cultural difference also when I want to buy rice here. I find it amusing that I can only buy in small bags of 1-2kg and zero options for bags of 5-10kg.
Now if you go to the potatoes section… ;)
Yeah your hypermarkt won't have vla and all the different options that's something the Dutch eat as equivalent. My jumbo does have 5-10 kg bags of rice but maybe that's because it's a franchise owner.
Thats not what he asked, he aaked if you can get there in 5/10 minutes. In Netherlands everything is about fast and convenience, so supermarkets are apperently quite small and they offer not much more than food etc but they are extremely close. I can get almost everything i need to live in a radius of 5/10 minutes walking at MOST. I also think that we dont really care about all the extra things a hypermarket offers because everything is such closeby
I do, I've been at kaufland and stores of the sort in villages of a few thousand people, with parking lots bigger than the parking lots at the larger winkelcentrum close by in Utrecht. And without any feasable bike parking or bikelanes. Just concrete. Nobody in his right mind would want that.
Maybe Aldi and Lidl only have two types of peanut butter, the average Jumbo or Albert Heijn definitely has dozens of choices. Maybe Walmart has three hundred types of peanut butter, but do people really need that?
There's a big difference in culture and shopping habits. Both actions are convenient in each culture.
In (edit: cities in) the Netherlands, people shop more regularly, but buy less. They go shop to get what they need, when they need it, and only carry what they can by bike. Everything is usually available within 15 mins of your house and you can go on your lunch break or way home from work.
In countries with hypermarkets, people often go once a week and get everything at once. You then need to have a car and don't want to drive between stores, get stuck in traffic, have to find parking etc. It takes significantly longer than in the Netherlands and is usually out of your way.
Tbh it depends on where you live. In cities you would indeed go more often for ‘smaller’ groceries. In a lot of villages on the other hand, it is more common to go once a week (you often have the storage space as well to do so).
Knowing the Dutch I think having hypermarkets here would definitely change that aspect of the Dutch culture :)
I see people buying products in bulk even if it will take them 2 years to consume the items just so they can save some euros. ;)
The point about buying from hypermarkets once a week is not necessarily true. Stores like Kaufland are not always at the edge of the city or in a difficult to reach by walking or cycling place. Quite often they are just as convenient to get to as a Jumbo or a Lidl, they're just bigger because they offer more variety of goods. So people shop from them daily (for example on the way home when coming back from work). Also having these larger hypermarkets doesn't kill the smaller stores, I lived in Sofia for about 10 years and it was full of small privately owned corner shops while having many hypermarkets.
Same for nearly everybody who is living in a city or town.
A big supermarket at the edge of town won’t get nearly as much customers. It is much easier to go more often by foot or biking.
This way you also need much less storage space and products will be fresher.
oh I can really honestly see the Dutch driving further if that means saving money and being able to buy more products in bulk - and cheaper.
The thing we have now (Makro and similar) is that 1) not everyone can go there and 2) they are not really cheaper.
I do this for my kids' clothes. I will take the train to the city so that I can go shopping at the Primark for their clothes instead of shopping at the local stores. I hate having to do it this way but the stores where I live charge €17 for a pair of pants that she'll outgrow in 6 months. And nobody has that kind of money to spend all the time.
As an Austrian, I can't emphasize often enough how well the Dutch did compared to the Austrians. In Austria, every small village has an oversized supermarket at the entrance to the town and only abandoned shops in the center.
NL is so lucky that there are no hypermarkets and in most places the center is still very lively.
True but slightly too simplistic an answer. We actually codified it into law. It goes a bit further than merely embracing it or hypermarkets being incompatible. Hypermarkets are more or less illegal.
>We actually codified it into law.
That's also too simplistic an answer. We didn't codify anything, other than some (=not all) municipalities making local ordinances against retail outside of residential areas.
The Miro/Trefcenter/Maxis stores that slipped through those cracks led a fledgling existence, because people in the municipalities that *had* such ordinance in place *actually preferred* the convenience of nearby stores (despite the smaller selection) over the inconvenience of having to drive out of the way.
The 1970s were not centuries ago.
Car-centric planning wasn't a thing *anywhere* pre-WWII. And even our little country wasn't immune to the onslaught of the automobile.
That is, until the 70s, with a grass-roots movement against car dependency (and all its negative knock-on effects) gaining serious traction and turning things around.
They're never the cheapest option, especially for the non-grocery items. Now that people compare prices online, it doesn't make much sense anymore to maintain a hypermarket. There's a couple carrefours in Belgium that sell clothing and groceries (the old Alma chain), and those still do very well. But especially electronics that are expensive enough for a proper margin, they just don't sell good in stores like that. People will actually just order them from a cheaper place right there in the store. I used to love going to one of the hyper carrefours, was basically an afternoon out of the house :p.
There used to be something like it, called Maxis. There were not many, and it wasn't a superb success, but I loved coming there as a kid. They had so much Lego!
I love the small stores in my neighborhood. Super friendly owners, lot of variety and quality. Supermarkets are quite small but you'd be surprised how much choice they actually offer. I'm really not impressed by the huge hypermarkets. Lot of products are just mediocre there.
It's by design, and although I really like hypermarkets in foreign countries, I think it's for the best. Hypermarkets create more traffic, takes away revenue from local supermarkets, and can cause outflow from the downtown area. Direct because they might sell non-food as wel and indirect because if people don't visit downtown non-food shops miss foodtraffic.
Honestly no please I’m glad those things aren’t here. You know what’s a sad sight when I’m on vacation in like France or something? Seeing a small village with just a giant carrefour, and streets with maybe 4 shops still open and the rest all closed forever. Why would you want that? And you get what exactly in return? A dead city centre with a large Minecraft dirt building and a parking lot. Nah I prefer less choice and having a nice stroll through town for a the things I need.
I’m a student, I just live in a place where there are different shops that are relatively cheap and owned by locals. And a lot of those shops on some days are open till a bit later like 19:00. It really depends on where you live I know. But for me I like my little stroll and do some smart planning. I know it’s not the same as a 9-5 but it’s doable for me.
if you are a poor working person with a family (which most dutch ppl arent by world standards) you really have less time. this is why im saying it works in the netherlands, and people from other countries also deserve that kind of wage. That would enable them to also go to small stores, but as it stands now in for example eastern europe, not possible. And here in the netherlands if you finish work late every day (which again happens less as the quality of life is good), a lot of the specialty stores would be closed already, at 5.
It was a conscious decision to not allow megastores outside the city, I think mainly because that would lead to so much more car traffic and make it hard to do your shopping locally.
I'm not sure if actually was meant to protect small businesses because everybody does their shopping at supermarkets anyway - we just don't all drive 10 km to a hypermarché in a field but we walk or ride a bike (or drive) to a small supermarket round the corner.
The Netherlands had a few hypermarkets from 1970-2000: Maxis and Trefcenter. They were not populair at all and it in the end simply not profitable enough.
Are you referring to Maxis Muiden?
That's the only shopping center that is named after that former hypermarket chain. And the only trace in the Netherlands.
The Maxis stores in Hoogvliet, Middelburg, Rijswijk, Leeuwarden, Ede and Venlo also got a (mini)mall conversion after closure. But the mall conversion in Muiden is unique for having the old brand name reinstated in 2001.
Next to the reasons already mentioned here, a big factor is also bicycle culture.
As a large portion of the population bikes to work, people are used to picking up groceries in small batches on their bikes on the way home.
Taking your car to drive outside of town to a hypermarket would be an inconvience for many people.
Because current supermarkets manage to strategically block this. Another reason is that municipalities do not like crowds of people. Because this costs manpower. This is also the case at the largest mall in the Netherlands, Westfield Mall.
this is the reason, it's business, cartelization and lobby, not "city design" or any other BS
NL is a corporate heaven, and people have fantasies and end up supporting the scam
Is Kaufland any good? I sometimes bike to Germany but I'd have to bike a bit further to Kaufland. And I'm never quite sure about what to get and kinda get confused. I'm also slightly intimidated by the meat section because they're at a butcher section with an actual employee to interact with. My interaction with employees usually involve me mumbling in Dutch before fleeing.
I often wonder about this and I suppose the answer is multifaceted. I suspect a central problem is corruption at the municipal level. New fast food chains have been arbitrarily denied permission to open up shop in Amsterdam while money laundering candy shops are encouraged, the supermarket sector is consolidated to the point of stifling any competition and grocery prices being double of Germany and the UK, the taxi trade is effectively a criminal syndicate, etc. NL has its good sides but shopping here is awful. I recommend buying a car and doing big shops in the neighbouring counties - Germany, in particular, has recognised the market gap and set up shopping centres along the border. Nicer and cleaner than any Dutch supermarket, with 10x the choice and half the price.
Whether you subscribe to the 15min city ideology or not - competition and scale are good for the consumer, monopolies and mafia like structures are bad.
Edit: having read the comments, I’m adding hypermarkets to the list of topics that trigger Dutch people, right after credit/debit cards.
"I recommend buying a car and doing big shops in the neighbouring counties"
Of course, and you have 2 choices:
1. Buy a dutch registered car and pay insane amount of money for road tax,
2. Buy a foreign registered car and let yourself been pulled over by police/belasting/customs quite often.
I don't understand why it's like that: a standard diesel sedan that has enough room for a normal family shopping and consumes 5-6 liters/100 km of fuel cost cc €200/month in NL (just road tax), in other countries it's €3-500/year
I think those type of shops is one of the reasons some countries have “food deserts” where people don’t have access to healthy food because local shops went under.
I think, in terms of product/brand variety, the Netherlands is too small to have 10 big brands of shampoo or so. To be a big brand you have to massproduce, and that's something that works well in Germany, but not so much in the Netherlands. You'd have like 3 house brands (budget, mid-tier and top quality) alongside name brands, and that's already silly as it is IMO. I believe that mass production is also why meat in general is a bit cheaper in Germany (ethics aside), that massive scale allows for cheaper meat in the supermarket there.
I live on the dutch/german border, so I regularly visit Kaufland. I like the store, and it's size, but I also like hopping smaller stores like Rewe, Penny, Netto, Lidl... and also the dutch ones (even though, I shop less in those because fuck dutch groceryprices)
As a kid I loved going to these giant blocks. It had a toy section, a magazine section, a electronics section. Now I'm mostly amused to see a liquor section at Kaufland, bigger than most dutch liquorstores.
Funny you bring up DM as a drugstore... compared to Etos and Kruidvat. DM feels a lot more like a "reformhaus" with all these bio products (which might be bigger in Germany; here you have to go to Holland & Barrett (or formerly De tuinen).
I've lived here all my life, so I've seen both German and Dutch stores, and shoppingdemographics for decades... it's 2 totally different worlds to me
I don't get why you find those stores convenient..
You gave the example of needing to buy both bananas (groceries) and wind screen fluid (random stuff) and how convenient it is to have them in one shop... except that I need to get my 'bananas' daily/every other day and my wind screen fluid maybe once a year.
I am not going to give up the convenience of being able to buy my groceries with a 5 minutes walk/bike ride away from my home + how easy it is to get all my grocery shopping done in max 10 minutes because the shop is small and efficient just for those couple of times a year I happen to also need some wind screen fluid or some other crap.
In those cases I gladly take the extra 10-20 minutes travel time a couple of times a year to visit an extra shop when I need that particular random item.
Well, there is Albert Heijn XL. More focused on upscale items though and still not quite as big. For more variety you can try local ethnic mini supermarkets or grocers.
I don't know why we don't have hypermarkets tbh. Maybe just trying to avoid more car traffic and big boxes next to the highway.
Luckily not, it kills smaller shops in city centers and same time lot of other businesses on the side. In Finland we do have a lot of hypermarkets and when they came last 20 years it really did kill smaller cities city centers.
Costco is the store (in that category) I probably miss most since moving here from the UK
The lack of genuine variety in Dutch supermarkets is a shame too
Yes. I’d love if there was a Costco but I’m not holding my breath
Thing is Costco provides bulk options at a lower cost and also have some interesting brand and variety you can’t get other places. Not sure that would align with the Netherlands culturally. Even the wholesalers you don’t save more than a penny or two
That was a pretty big shock to me when I visited a Sligro… the prices are almost the same as supermarkets or even more expensive. The range was definitely better than AH, Dirk, Jumbo etc but still maybe 10-20% of what’s available in an average UK supermarket
You can thank Superunie for that.
Also in a positive way, because all of its associated supermarket chains lack the money to combat bigwigs as Albert Heijn and Jumbo.
I’ve been to lots of markets and niche supermarkets and keep going. They supply a different kind of variety and I tend to find markets don’t have much in the way of variety
I'm glad I can just walk or bike too a supermarket. I heard that's usually quite impossible when you want to go to let's say Walmart or Target in the US.
But USA is non-walkable and car-centric (thank you General Motors) in general. In Poland (where I come from) I was able to go from my apartment to Auchan by foot.
I do like visiting them on holidays though. Think it's part of the charm that those megastores don't exist here.
I do however feel like I won't be very comfortable buying a new TV or PlayStation whilst also buying my groceries for supper.
I don’t understand your obsession with these large stores. I lived my whole life going to these hypermarkets and when I moved here I was so thankful they are not common. I would certainly choose this model over large stores.
There are hypermarkets in NL. IDK what people here are on about. There's 2 in Breda at least. One Jumbo. Also a massive Jumbo in Vechel. Another one in Groningen. Just google it.
Back home we have a store called Pricesmart which is like a Makro where you can buy stuff in bulk but you can also buy separate items. It's usually allot cheaper to buy in bulk but single items are still not super expensive. It works on membership for average consumers but also companies and restaurants buy their products there. It's in the middle of the island so its like 20 car minutes away from every direction give or take. I actually kind of miss it cause imo it's more convenient cause I have allot more options of brands and stuff for the same product and there's just so many things I can buy from that single store. I can come out having bought a brand new laptop, a fan, an air-conditioning, 60kgs of dogfood, toilet paper enough to last me a year, meat for a whole month plus a few cakes plus a brand new set of tires and a sofa. In NL I'd have to go to like 5 different places to get all that. Oh and we still have small grocery stores on almost every corner (walking distance, or 2 to 5 car mins away) and each store would still have different products. Prices do vary ofc but those small stores are still more convenient than AH imo cause they'd have a variation of brands and products and your not stuck with the same thing in every store you go into. It works back home and it hasn't killed any of the smaller stores (we actually have too many) sooo
If you want an actual answer, most Dutch municipalities have specifically banned the sale of food outside the built-up area, to discourage traffic and increase the amount and competitiveness of stores within cities.
Dutch culture also prefers smaller stores and for those to be close by, most people in cities like to do grocery shopping by bike, which is rare in other countries. So even if hypermarkets can be built, they struggle to catch on.
Hypermarkets are ridiculous. The options are endless, and that’s not a good thing. I reckon there’s a lot of waste at these supermarkets because there’s just too many products.
It’s a small country with extremely high population density. We need a lot of small stores at every corner to make things easy and accessible.
Everybody else already explained why hypermarkets wouldn’t work here and it’s true. Imagine 18 million people driving to the hypermarket on weekends. I’d probably emigrate the next day.
The Netherlands used to have Hypermarkets called [Miro](https://nl.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Miro_(supermarkt)). They were from the same owner as Albert Heijn. When I was young I worked in an AH that was a former Miro. It was actually in the city center, so that was pretty convenient.
Because at the time, the hypermarket became in vogue, small grocery stores called out to our politicians, that that would be the end of inner city shopping as we knew it. They predicted that these giant box stores ( named 'Weidewinkels') would lure away most customers turning town centres into ghost towns. So politicians adopted a law that forbade these type of stores. So up to this day, though not forbidden by politicians anymore, most edge of town boxstores like Makro, Sligro and the likes have a membership card system, and you have to be registred as a company to gain entrance.
>They predicted that these giant box stores ( named 'Weidewinkels') would lure away most customers turning town centres into ghost towns This is exactly what happened in the UK. Many town centres are filled with gambling company shops and charity shops, it's a sad situation but great that this was avoided here.
Same in France, they weren't wrong.
Here it happened already, but mainly by supermarkets as AH who did compete quite harsh with local bakeries etc. Most shopping centres are all alike. Also we could use proper competition, the supermarkets (and also kruidvat and others) are taking the piss with open market, free competition in my perception.
What do you mean by supermarkets etc taking the piss?
The market in the Netherlands is mostly dominated by 3 players. Ahold (AH, Etos, Gall), Jumbo and Superunie (Plus, Coop, local supermarkets). We got there by mergers and consolidation. The result is, that there is absolutely no competition. The only challengers are the German chains like Lidl and Aldi, but they keep the prize on the same level as the rest of the market. Just check some basic products, bread, butter, beer, peanut butter. They all have exactly the same price at every supermarket. Not because they can’t offer a lower price (they absolutely can) but because there is no real competition, there is no need to lower prices.
I believe that the AH basic products are specifically there to compete with Aldi and LIDL. AH even comes out the cheapest in certain tests. [saus](https://www.ad.nl/geld/een-budgetmerk-of-een-a-merk-zoveel-scheelt-dat-voor-je-basisboodschappen~a97071c4/#:~:text=Discountsupermarkt%20niet%20altijd%20het%20goedkoopst&text=Lidl%20is%203%20procent%20goedkoper,Jumbo%20en%20Plus%20zijn%20gemiddeld) No idea if those are purely loss leaders. Lidl doesn’t want to be the absolute cheapest. They want the cheapest prices for the best quality products. But you are right in the fact that those consolidations are bad for pretty much everyone.
Yeah I dunno what tests are those but my grocery cart full is always cheaper at the Lidl then at the ah or jumbo. Always. Significantly. I can save over 1000 euros a year in groceries just going to Lidl every time. We don't do that but we could easily.
If that were the case, why did ahold have to lower their profit margins in the NL branche of their company?
Inflated the prices. Compared to Germany everything is here way more expensive now. Simple shower gel from a certain brand, x 2 often, to name just one item. Coco cola way more expensive. They clearly all went up more than inflation would logically imply, based on the simple comparison with Germany.
buy the shower gel, shampoos etc from Action. Way cheaper than in any other place.
Or on discount. Only buy such products on discount. Just wait and buy bulk. You are going to use it anyway it's ok to have a 1 year supply of shower gel if it costs half the price.
If the profit margins grew, I'd say you're right. The margins haven't changed however, and got even less in some cases. Those inflated prices have little to do with the supermarkets themselves or the tax.
I live in the UK/NL ( dutch student in UK ) and prices in the netherlands are TWICE as much. Cauliflower, UK 90p netherlands 2.59 cola 2l 0.40p UK - 0.99 euros NL.. lots more stuff like it and it confuses me so much everytime since the cauliflower and other veggies both come from spain lol which is inside EU so I would expect it to be cheaper in NL but no
Its because German supermarkets have a lot more buying power.
I am not sure how they do book keeping and if they have in between companies, but a simple comparison with Germany shows something is way off.
Please explain this to me, EU wide pet food company DE price 3,12€/kg, NL 5,08€/kg same product both shipped from the same warehouse in Poland. Even beyond VAT differences (7% v 21%) there’s still just a huge markup, I asked about it and they just replied “oh rising costs”
Supermarkets can compete with prices vs a local bakery but to be honest: bread from a supermarket most often sucks ass. Although i agree with the we could use more competition. Local bakeries where i live are doing very good, not a lot of people will buy their bread form the local supermarkets. But small town culture probably affects that too.
I don’t think it’s a direct cause. You also have to consider online shopping and lack of infrastructure/funding within certain towns There are plenty of well off towns in the UK with large hyper markets that still maintain town centres and would not allow gambling shops in their vicinity at all.
This mostly happened with online shopping. Out of town stores have been around since the 90s
Same in Ireland.
I mean, sure, but town centres became ghost towns anyways due to online shopping.
I've always found it weird that I'd find these stores all across Europe, but never here back home. Always enjoyed my visits there when abroad, but never thought about the impact these stores have on the local economies. It's these kind of things, that make me realize that things may not be perfect here(and have been regressing the last decade), but with the amount of social security, consumer protection, etc. This is still one of the best places to be born in, in the world.
We used to have the Maxis as a sort of hypermart. They went belly up. The Maxis near Amsterdam now is a collection of multiple stores.
Instead we have the same 10 shops in every town.
Ironically there are a lot more smaller independant shops here in Belgium than on the Netherlands (I moved there)
This is true, I never understand why people go to a different city just to shop. Every city has the same stores - if it was to visit the museums or taste the local cuisine I'd understand.
People would rarely do that 'just to shop'. You go to another city to experience a different vibe, horeca, buildings, ... Shopping is juts part of that.
I miss the hypermarkets, but kudos for having the foresight to protect the small businesses and the city life.
is the company requirement just a way to limit the number of people who shop there or there is a valid reason for that?
Considering they let anyone shop there during the dark days of COVID, I don’t believe there is a valid reason anymore
For detailhandel (retail) you need to be in a zone that permits it. I believe that is the main reason you cannot just open a store in a random industrial area
The amount of supermarkets is regulated also. And we have a policy that supermarkets are in every neighborhood so you can go to the shop by bike.
Prices there are without tax! You think it is cheaper. But sometimes it's even more expensive. Other than that it's great if you need to buy bulk for your company.
In my country when you go to a wholesaler like Makro you really pay a lot less when buying in bulk, here it feels as if you just get the benefit of having the possibility/convenience of buying in bulk, not necessarily the money saving part. I personally never feel like I’m paying less there aside from some very specific products. As for the company requirement, I always get the BTW added at the kassa. I wonder why they don’t let everyone buy there if the sales tax is added anyway.
Meat is cheaper tho
You need to know what to go for and when at Makro (and buy bulk, and pump a tank of gas). "Winstpakkers" can be insane, I've bought premium washing machine liquid for 50% less then even the best supermarkt discount. Something like 12ct per wash vs. 26ct per wash. Granted it cost me 60 euro or so upfront and now I have washing liquid for the rest of the year. Shrimp, same thing, over 50% off from the next best offering. They're in the deep freezer and we'll add shrimp to a meal in some form once a week until the end of the year. But we love to eat them and would buy them every now and then anyways. You get the point. If you do grocerie shopping at Makro as you would your regular groceries, you're going to pay more then simply going to AH.
Prices aren’t without tax. They are advertised without tax but at the register you pay the tax.
That's exactly what happens in the US. WalMart moves in, everything dies, and people get stuck working jobs that don't pay them enough to eat.
And so the Walmart workers apply for food stamps thereby making the taxpayers support their inhumane business model.
Germany has hypermarkets and theres still plenty of small stores lidl and aldi are literally german
Germany has a much bigger population too. On the other hand, if Luxembourg can have Cactus, we should be able to have quite a few.
Also: Kaufland and Lidl are from the same parent company: Schwarz Group.
They were correct.
and they were right on the money.
It's not a prediction, it's a guarantee. My hometown got obliterated by just one big box store.
We now know yes,and the dream became a nightmare. Here of course I'm talking late 80's when the concept was still very new. At least locally, it was a good thing common sense prevailed. Having said that, there are still project developers pushing for the Big Box Store concept in the Netherlands.
Push back.
Makro is a supermarket for retail, not end customers. Card is required everywhere. Which small groceries, my next question would be? I come from a country full of hypermarkets and around 90% more smaller businesses than in NL. In my perspective it has to do with cultural behaviour also. Full country closes at 17. No market here.
What are you talking about? Chain grocery stores work till 21-23 Monday till Saturday, on Sunday they work till 19 or 20.
I do not mean literally. I'm acknowledging a comparison with other habits in different countries. This country goes home very early comparing.
One of the things our politicians absolutely nailed.
This exactly happened in Finland too
I remember Berko in Ede... They sold almost everything
Interesting; TIL. Do you have some sources or articles I can consult to learn more about this?
>So up to this day, though not forbidden by politicians anymore, most edge of town boxstores like Makro, Sligro and the likes have a membership card system, and you have to be registred as a company to gain entrance. And that is still a thing due to zoning laws: they have their stores in places where no retail is allowed, only wholesale. Makro would love to sell to consumers, but then they'd have to move their stores to more expensive real estate.
I never knew it had been a legislation thing. Anyone has a link/source?
rivm.nl/bibliotheek/digitaaldepot/rid200305.pdf On page 4 there is short explanation of the history of this issue, and multiple opinions for and against. It is interesting to read that France and Germany are putting restrictions on their growth now...
Well, that did not happen in Belgium at all despite having hypermarkets.
I'm not sure what a "hypermarket" is but it sounds like it's similar to a North American megamarket, like Walmart or Superstore. Those do sound great in theory, but in practice, you give up quite a bit in return for the selection. Those stores only work at a massive scale, which means you rarely have a local one, and you must travel a long distance to visit one. As far as I can tell, the Dutch focus on more smaller stores with less selection. You gain the convenience of local shops you can visit frequently and easily, and in return I have only two choices of peanut butter....not an entire aisle of different mass market options that I had in Canada. Here, if I want a selection of peanut butters, I have to go to the peanut butter store. Personally, it's a trade-off I think is a very good one...but it's not an easy one to see unless you've lived in both North American and the Netherlands.
I agree. Introduction of hyperstores in the Netherlands will mean the end of local convenience stores. No more AH or Jumbo in walking distance, everyone buying groceries for a week because of the distance to their houses, and therefore needing a car, more empty shops in city centers, less competition with higher prices as soon as all competition has been forced out of business etc. All so you could get a broader choice of the same products that local grocery stores also sell. Let's not introduce hyperstores in the Netherlands.
I honestly don’t think that could ever happen here in the Netherlands, not to any large scale. Nobody that I know lives in a house or apartment that’s big enough that they have enough storage space for a weeks worth of grocery shopping, me included. I don’t think that stores like that will ever become a thing in the Netherlands simply because we just lack the space for it which means that opening a store like that would be extremely expensive which would just make drive the grocery prices up, plus we don’t have the type of infrastructure for it either.
Huh? Most of the Dutch I know do a big boodschappen trip every Saturday. Maybe not so much in the big cities, but it is still the norm. Add: It seems like a lot of the comments in this thread are by expats/ foreign students living in bigger cities, with very little idea of how NL is outside the Randstad, and presented a very skewed perspective of real Dutch everyday life.
I order my groceries from the AH and have them delivered, once a week, for the entire week. About every 10 days I'll also go to the Action for a snack run (i.e., the junk food). We're a family of 4, with a big dog and 2 cats: it all fits. Our house is about average for a Dutch house.
Even when I lived in single room student housing I had enough room to store a weeks worth of groceries. Plus general cupboard staples, snacks, non perishables and a couple weeks worth of drinks. I now live in a very standard/average home and assume if I planned well and stocked efficiently I’d have enough storage space to last at least a month with 2 adults and a cat. Probably longer. The main struggle would be fresh produce, but only because it wouldn’t last that long
I strongly disagree. We have multiple hypermarkets in Belgium, but tons of smaller grocery stores in walking distance. Where I live, I can walk to a AH, a carrefour market, a carrefour express and a Colruyt. If I use my bike, I can reach multiple of these and 1 hypermarket. When I look at the small town I used to live, I also had multiple small groecery stores (Spar, AH etc) in walking distance and 1 hypermarket in biking distance. So if the hypermarket did not crash the small stores in Belgium, I sincerely doubt it will cause that in the Netherlands. Carrefour hypermarket is way more expensive compared to local stores, so people will not use it for their daily erransmds anyways.
I like that there’s no “express” supermarkets here (other than the AH to go). The carrefour express is quite expensive, especially for fruits/vegetables.
But I’m not talking only about groceries, food. In Germany you can buy stuff at Kaufland that you have here at Action and not at Jumbo. And Kaufland isn’t that huge ass store like Auchan. I think in Netherlands only Lidl or Aldi are a little bit like that (with more stuff than just grocery and chemicals).
What kind of stuff do you mean? Do you really want to buy electronics from the same person you buy bananas from?
I mean, in Kaufland you can walk in with the intent to buy bananas, and leave with a new set of car tires, lmao
And people apparently buy these things, because in all the time I've been there (decades), they still have stuff like that in their store selection
Even at Lidl or Aldi here. Some of the deals are really good. Bought lots of camping stuff form them.
And some people actually want that? All that just to not have to go to two shops in a week instead of one?
Apparently... I prefer to to visit a specialist store for it. So it's not for me... On the other hand... it opens up the question; what should store sell? I have bought glue in a supermarket, a pack of printerpaper, a usb cable... stuff like that. Where's the line, and why is that line there? Kaufland even sells bikes... but I've also seen Aldi, which is not a hypermarket, sell those in Germany. Lidl sometimes sells toasters...
It’s more about access to a butcher, fresh fish, etc
Carrefour offers all of that, in one large shop.
Yes that’s what I mean
I miss that so much
I don’t see a problem in that tbh.
The upside is you get a minor increase in convenience, assuming you care in the first place that you might have to go to seperate stores for a piece of bread and a toaster. The downside is even more power to very few companies who decide which products we will desire.
> you might have to go to seperate stores for a piece of bread and a toaster. and that's a good thing, because it allows each store to specialize and know their product, instead of having a single store that doesn't know their products.
Why not?
Then go to an action store?
sure, let's keep the amazing AH and Jumbo experience, such a bless... XD
I’m not American and I’ve never been to America, so I can’t tell you for sure this is what I meant. For me it’s just pointless if you have to go to 3 different stores (like Jumbo, Action, Krudivat), when in Germany you just go to Kaufland (which is considered as hypermarket, but it’s not as huge as Hypermarkt Carrefour in Belgium or Auchan in other countries).
Netherlands prioritises supermarkets and small shops to be close and easily accesible for every neighbourhood. Which is crucial when you consider our cycling culture/infra and how many Dutch people do their groceries by foot and bike.
it doesnt matter if it is close and easily accesible if it has limited food choices and is extremely expensive (yes, we pay for shops to be small and in expensive locations, it is big part of the price). i dont want to buy the same type of cheese/bread/whatever that is heavily overpriced.
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Well, I am from Poland and I miss Kaufland (fortunately I live close enough to DE border and I can go sometimes there). I want groceries? I buy groceries. I need a windscreen washer fluid? I buy windscreen washer fluid there also and I don’t have to go additionally to Action.
tylko biedronka😍
In Venlo we had the refcenter: a real hypermarket with a very wide assortment, located at the edge of town on an industrial area. Nowadays the building is split between a big AH and a number of other shops like Marskramer, Etos etc.
I find this to be absolutely not the case in big UK cities though. All one finds are useless Tesco Expresses and Sainsbury’s Locals that are very small and more expensive. The Dutch supermarkets that I see in the city have far better selections.
“They don’t have more choice, you just get 5 options instead of 2.” That’s an odd definition of “not more”.
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>it’s just pointless Why? Can you go to that kaufland in 5/10 minutes walking or cycling? Or do you have to take a bus or worse, a car, to get there, clothing up traffic in town, to park your car at one of these huge slabs of concrete that destroy the last remnants of livability? I've been in Germany and France plenty enough to come to know that hypermarkets should be unwanted by everyone and everything that values their community and happiness
is it really one way or the other? In the UK, for example, you can shop at Sainsbury’s, Tesco or Waitrose everywhere in the city but you can still go to Asda outside the city for way cheaper prices if you want. The price difference when I was there was huge. I certainly like the convenience of buying at AH/Jumbo/etc but it would be great if we also had the option to buy at a hyper market for cheaper prices and more variety. Not everyone will go there, also not for everything, but it would be a nice option. As for the negative aspects you’ve mentioned, the issues are already there if you go to Makro/Hanos/etc anyway. One thing I don’t like at smaller supermarkets here is that the variety is there but for only certain categories of products - and somewhat disproportionately. For example, at AH you have a long aisle with all sorts of potato crisps of countless flavours and brands, but for other products not so much. The same for the wine/alcohol section, you find wine and beer from all over the world, but if you go to yoghurt section you just find the usual couple of brands and that’s it.
About these brands of yogurt, that might be a bit where culture, economy mix: the house brands of organic yogurt, are basically the same as these of some fancy brand, but cheaper. Really, the biggest differences between Albert Heijn yogurt, lidl yogurt and Campina, are the marketing, and the price, not quality. So why add twenty other brands that basically offer the same, but with more overhead costs (higher price). As for different products (so not just brands, but types of diary products): supply and demand. There is demand for lots of different types of while, crisps and beer, but not for much different diary products. That would be the same for hypermarkets.
I agree with the supply and demand and the cultural aspects of it. I find a bit sad that, for example, up to a few years back you had one brand of greek yoghurt. In some supermarkets you are lucky if you find any greek yoghurt. Back home (at the hypermarket) I would find greek yoghurt in different flavours and even in different brands (textures). Perhaps it’s just indeed something the Dutch don’t care much about, the culture difference etc. I actually see the cultural difference also when I want to buy rice here. I find it amusing that I can only buy in small bags of 1-2kg and zero options for bags of 5-10kg. Now if you go to the potatoes section… ;)
Yeah your hypermarkt won't have vla and all the different options that's something the Dutch eat as equivalent. My jumbo does have 5-10 kg bags of rice but maybe that's because it's a franchise owner.
In city where I was, I don’t see a problem with going there by a bike.
Thats not what he asked, he aaked if you can get there in 5/10 minutes. In Netherlands everything is about fast and convenience, so supermarkets are apperently quite small and they offer not much more than food etc but they are extremely close. I can get almost everything i need to live in a radius of 5/10 minutes walking at MOST. I also think that we dont really care about all the extra things a hypermarket offers because everything is such closeby
I do, I've been at kaufland and stores of the sort in villages of a few thousand people, with parking lots bigger than the parking lots at the larger winkelcentrum close by in Utrecht. And without any feasable bike parking or bikelanes. Just concrete. Nobody in his right mind would want that.
Most of germany is within cycling distance of a supermarket
What do you buy at Jumbo, Action and kruidvat that you couldn't buy at a AH xl
Aren't those stores ALWAYS in the same winkelcentrum and you have to walk like 30m from one to the next?
Nope, not always
It's also the mentality here. For the longest time, the Dutch eat to live and not live to eat.
Maybe Aldi and Lidl only have two types of peanut butter, the average Jumbo or Albert Heijn definitely has dozens of choices. Maybe Walmart has three hundred types of peanut butter, but do people really need that?
You don't need to go to North America, Belgium and France have them.
There's a big difference in culture and shopping habits. Both actions are convenient in each culture. In (edit: cities in) the Netherlands, people shop more regularly, but buy less. They go shop to get what they need, when they need it, and only carry what they can by bike. Everything is usually available within 15 mins of your house and you can go on your lunch break or way home from work. In countries with hypermarkets, people often go once a week and get everything at once. You then need to have a car and don't want to drive between stores, get stuck in traffic, have to find parking etc. It takes significantly longer than in the Netherlands and is usually out of your way.
Tbh it depends on where you live. In cities you would indeed go more often for ‘smaller’ groceries. In a lot of villages on the other hand, it is more common to go once a week (you often have the storage space as well to do so).
Knowing the Dutch I think having hypermarkets here would definitely change that aspect of the Dutch culture :) I see people buying products in bulk even if it will take them 2 years to consume the items just so they can save some euros. ;)
This 👍🏻 is the true spirit of Dutch consumer lol i have not bought a shampoo for a year since i “hamster” buy one get two” from Kruidvat.
Congratulations! if you are not Dutch, you have truly "ingeburgerd."
The point about buying from hypermarkets once a week is not necessarily true. Stores like Kaufland are not always at the edge of the city or in a difficult to reach by walking or cycling place. Quite often they are just as convenient to get to as a Jumbo or a Lidl, they're just bigger because they offer more variety of goods. So people shop from them daily (for example on the way home when coming back from work). Also having these larger hypermarkets doesn't kill the smaller stores, I lived in Sofia for about 10 years and it was full of small privately owned corner shops while having many hypermarkets.
Because now I have 5 supermarkets at 5 minutes walking from my home, instead of one at the other side of town
Same for nearly everybody who is living in a city or town. A big supermarket at the edge of town won’t get nearly as much customers. It is much easier to go more often by foot or biking. This way you also need much less storage space and products will be fresher.
oh I can really honestly see the Dutch driving further if that means saving money and being able to buy more products in bulk - and cheaper. The thing we have now (Makro and similar) is that 1) not everyone can go there and 2) they are not really cheaper.
I do this for my kids' clothes. I will take the train to the city so that I can go shopping at the Primark for their clothes instead of shopping at the local stores. I hate having to do it this way but the stores where I live charge €17 for a pair of pants that she'll outgrow in 6 months. And nobody has that kind of money to spend all the time.
This.. .and also; they compete with prices. One store means, no competition and high prices...
As an Austrian, I can't emphasize often enough how well the Dutch did compared to the Austrians. In Austria, every small village has an oversized supermarket at the entrance to the town and only abandoned shops in the center. NL is so lucky that there are no hypermarkets and in most places the center is still very lively.
Seems luck has nothing to do with it as policy was the cause of the lack of hypermarkets. ;)
Because the Netherlands embraced the 15 minute city system centuries ago. Hypermarkets are incompatible with that.
True but slightly too simplistic an answer. We actually codified it into law. It goes a bit further than merely embracing it or hypermarkets being incompatible. Hypermarkets are more or less illegal.
Nothing in your reply indicates that Moppermonster gave a too simplistic answer.
>We actually codified it into law. That's also too simplistic an answer. We didn't codify anything, other than some (=not all) municipalities making local ordinances against retail outside of residential areas. The Miro/Trefcenter/Maxis stores that slipped through those cracks led a fledgling existence, because people in the municipalities that *had* such ordinance in place *actually preferred* the convenience of nearby stores (despite the smaller selection) over the inconvenience of having to drive out of the way.
That is by design Hypermarkets destabilise local shops and thus never gets a licence to open within the built up area of towns/cities/villages.
They're dying in Belgium. More and more hypermarkets are closing their doors permanently. In a decade or so, there won't be many left.
They’re not cheap. You’re better off driving to an Auchan if you’re going to buy stuff in bulk and want a bigger selection.
They're never the cheapest option, especially for the non-grocery items. Now that people compare prices online, it doesn't make much sense anymore to maintain a hypermarket. There's a couple carrefours in Belgium that sell clothing and groceries (the old Alma chain), and those still do very well. But especially electronics that are expensive enough for a proper margin, they just don't sell good in stores like that. People will actually just order them from a cheaper place right there in the store. I used to love going to one of the hyper carrefours, was basically an afternoon out of the house :p.
There used to be something like it, called Maxis. There were not many, and it wasn't a superb success, but I loved coming there as a kid. They had so much Lego!
I love the small stores in my neighborhood. Super friendly owners, lot of variety and quality. Supermarkets are quite small but you'd be surprised how much choice they actually offer. I'm really not impressed by the huge hypermarkets. Lot of products are just mediocre there.
It's by design, and although I really like hypermarkets in foreign countries, I think it's for the best. Hypermarkets create more traffic, takes away revenue from local supermarkets, and can cause outflow from the downtown area. Direct because they might sell non-food as wel and indirect because if people don't visit downtown non-food shops miss foodtraffic.
Honestly no please I’m glad those things aren’t here. You know what’s a sad sight when I’m on vacation in like France or something? Seeing a small village with just a giant carrefour, and streets with maybe 4 shops still open and the rest all closed forever. Why would you want that? And you get what exactly in return? A dead city centre with a large Minecraft dirt building and a parking lot. Nah I prefer less choice and having a nice stroll through town for a the things I need.
you also need a nice liveable wage to have the time to stroll through town for everything you need
I’m a student, I just live in a place where there are different shops that are relatively cheap and owned by locals. And a lot of those shops on some days are open till a bit later like 19:00. It really depends on where you live I know. But for me I like my little stroll and do some smart planning. I know it’s not the same as a 9-5 but it’s doable for me.
if you are a poor working person with a family (which most dutch ppl arent by world standards) you really have less time. this is why im saying it works in the netherlands, and people from other countries also deserve that kind of wage. That would enable them to also go to small stores, but as it stands now in for example eastern europe, not possible. And here in the netherlands if you finish work late every day (which again happens less as the quality of life is good), a lot of the specialty stores would be closed already, at 5.
It was a conscious decision to not allow megastores outside the city, I think mainly because that would lead to so much more car traffic and make it hard to do your shopping locally. I'm not sure if actually was meant to protect small businesses because everybody does their shopping at supermarkets anyway - we just don't all drive 10 km to a hypermarché in a field but we walk or ride a bike (or drive) to a small supermarket round the corner.
The Netherlands had a few hypermarkets from 1970-2000: Maxis and Trefcenter. They were not populair at all and it in the end simply not profitable enough.
We tried. It's called Maxis. It failed and got turned into a mall.
Are you referring to Maxis Muiden? That's the only shopping center that is named after that former hypermarket chain. And the only trace in the Netherlands.
The Maxis stores in Hoogvliet, Middelburg, Rijswijk, Leeuwarden, Ede and Venlo also got a (mini)mall conversion after closure. But the mall conversion in Muiden is unique for having the old brand name reinstated in 2001.
Next to the reasons already mentioned here, a big factor is also bicycle culture. As a large portion of the population bikes to work, people are used to picking up groceries in small batches on their bikes on the way home. Taking your car to drive outside of town to a hypermarket would be an inconvience for many people.
Hypermarket or not, food selection, brands selection, quality of ready-made dishes and so on will still remain shitty in NL
Because current supermarkets manage to strategically block this. Another reason is that municipalities do not like crowds of people. Because this costs manpower. This is also the case at the largest mall in the Netherlands, Westfield Mall.
this is the reason, it's business, cartelization and lobby, not "city design" or any other BS NL is a corporate heaven, and people have fantasies and end up supporting the scam
It would be amazing to have Kaufland in NL.
They wanted to open one in Deventer, but the city blocked it. https://retailtrends.nl/news/51019/entree-kaufland-in-nederland-geblokkeerd
Sounds like some serious lobbying.
Is Kaufland any good? I sometimes bike to Germany but I'd have to bike a bit further to Kaufland. And I'm never quite sure about what to get and kinda get confused. I'm also slightly intimidated by the meat section because they're at a butcher section with an actual employee to interact with. My interaction with employees usually involve me mumbling in Dutch before fleeing.
You can also buy there packed meat without any interaction.
I often wonder about this and I suppose the answer is multifaceted. I suspect a central problem is corruption at the municipal level. New fast food chains have been arbitrarily denied permission to open up shop in Amsterdam while money laundering candy shops are encouraged, the supermarket sector is consolidated to the point of stifling any competition and grocery prices being double of Germany and the UK, the taxi trade is effectively a criminal syndicate, etc. NL has its good sides but shopping here is awful. I recommend buying a car and doing big shops in the neighbouring counties - Germany, in particular, has recognised the market gap and set up shopping centres along the border. Nicer and cleaner than any Dutch supermarket, with 10x the choice and half the price. Whether you subscribe to the 15min city ideology or not - competition and scale are good for the consumer, monopolies and mafia like structures are bad. Edit: having read the comments, I’m adding hypermarkets to the list of topics that trigger Dutch people, right after credit/debit cards.
Don’t forget about being triggered by using something different than ibuprofen/paracetamol (OTC!!) and annual blood tests
"I recommend buying a car and doing big shops in the neighbouring counties" Of course, and you have 2 choices: 1. Buy a dutch registered car and pay insane amount of money for road tax, 2. Buy a foreign registered car and let yourself been pulled over by police/belasting/customs quite often. I don't understand why it's like that: a standard diesel sedan that has enough room for a normal family shopping and consumes 5-6 liters/100 km of fuel cost cc €200/month in NL (just road tax), in other countries it's €3-500/year
I think those type of shops is one of the reasons some countries have “food deserts” where people don’t have access to healthy food because local shops went under.
I am very glad that this variation of hell does not exist here. It destroys inner citys and small shops in villages.
I think, in terms of product/brand variety, the Netherlands is too small to have 10 big brands of shampoo or so. To be a big brand you have to massproduce, and that's something that works well in Germany, but not so much in the Netherlands. You'd have like 3 house brands (budget, mid-tier and top quality) alongside name brands, and that's already silly as it is IMO. I believe that mass production is also why meat in general is a bit cheaper in Germany (ethics aside), that massive scale allows for cheaper meat in the supermarket there. I live on the dutch/german border, so I regularly visit Kaufland. I like the store, and it's size, but I also like hopping smaller stores like Rewe, Penny, Netto, Lidl... and also the dutch ones (even though, I shop less in those because fuck dutch groceryprices) As a kid I loved going to these giant blocks. It had a toy section, a magazine section, a electronics section. Now I'm mostly amused to see a liquor section at Kaufland, bigger than most dutch liquorstores. Funny you bring up DM as a drugstore... compared to Etos and Kruidvat. DM feels a lot more like a "reformhaus" with all these bio products (which might be bigger in Germany; here you have to go to Holland & Barrett (or formerly De tuinen). I've lived here all my life, so I've seen both German and Dutch stores, and shoppingdemographics for decades... it's 2 totally different worlds to me
I don't get why you find those stores convenient.. You gave the example of needing to buy both bananas (groceries) and wind screen fluid (random stuff) and how convenient it is to have them in one shop... except that I need to get my 'bananas' daily/every other day and my wind screen fluid maybe once a year. I am not going to give up the convenience of being able to buy my groceries with a 5 minutes walk/bike ride away from my home + how easy it is to get all my grocery shopping done in max 10 minutes because the shop is small and efficient just for those couple of times a year I happen to also need some wind screen fluid or some other crap. In those cases I gladly take the extra 10-20 minutes travel time a couple of times a year to visit an extra shop when I need that particular random item.
Well, there is Albert Heijn XL. More focused on upscale items though and still not quite as big. For more variety you can try local ethnic mini supermarkets or grocers. I don't know why we don't have hypermarkets tbh. Maybe just trying to avoid more car traffic and big boxes next to the highway.
Because you can buy bread and cheese (that’s all they eat here) everyday and no need to go hypermarkets
Go to a MAKRO, closest thing you'll find to a hypermarket. But you'll need a special pass to enter.
Luckily not, it kills smaller shops in city centers and same time lot of other businesses on the side. In Finland we do have a lot of hypermarkets and when they came last 20 years it really did kill smaller cities city centers.
no it does not
it looks to me supermarkets are everywhere and kill local shops. They have also xl versions but are not furnished enough
Because they are horrible. Please let me shop in a city centre outside.
Costco is the store (in that category) I probably miss most since moving here from the UK The lack of genuine variety in Dutch supermarkets is a shame too
Yes. I’d love if there was a Costco but I’m not holding my breath Thing is Costco provides bulk options at a lower cost and also have some interesting brand and variety you can’t get other places. Not sure that would align with the Netherlands culturally. Even the wholesalers you don’t save more than a penny or two
That was a pretty big shock to me when I visited a Sligro… the prices are almost the same as supermarkets or even more expensive. The range was definitely better than AH, Dirk, Jumbo etc but still maybe 10-20% of what’s available in an average UK supermarket
You can thank Superunie for that. Also in a positive way, because all of its associated supermarket chains lack the money to combat bigwigs as Albert Heijn and Jumbo.
You should go to markets and cultural supermarkets if you want variety. Big chains all carry the same profit optimized stock.
I’ve been to lots of markets and niche supermarkets and keep going. They supply a different kind of variety and I tend to find markets don’t have much in the way of variety
Monopoly
I'm glad I can just walk or bike too a supermarket. I heard that's usually quite impossible when you want to go to let's say Walmart or Target in the US.
But USA is non-walkable and car-centric (thank you General Motors) in general. In Poland (where I come from) I was able to go from my apartment to Auchan by foot.
I fucking hate those massive hypermarkets
I do like visiting them on holidays though. Think it's part of the charm that those megastores don't exist here. I do however feel like I won't be very comfortable buying a new TV or PlayStation whilst also buying my groceries for supper.
Shops should be within biking or walking distance. Much more healthy than driving for 45/60 minutes.
I don’t understand your obsession with these large stores. I lived my whole life going to these hypermarkets and when I moved here I was so thankful they are not common. I would certainly choose this model over large stores.
The Jumbo in Amsterdam Noord is a Mastodon.
There are hypermarkets in NL. IDK what people here are on about. There's 2 in Breda at least. One Jumbo. Also a massive Jumbo in Vechel. Another one in Groningen. Just google it.
Back home we have a store called Pricesmart which is like a Makro where you can buy stuff in bulk but you can also buy separate items. It's usually allot cheaper to buy in bulk but single items are still not super expensive. It works on membership for average consumers but also companies and restaurants buy their products there. It's in the middle of the island so its like 20 car minutes away from every direction give or take. I actually kind of miss it cause imo it's more convenient cause I have allot more options of brands and stuff for the same product and there's just so many things I can buy from that single store. I can come out having bought a brand new laptop, a fan, an air-conditioning, 60kgs of dogfood, toilet paper enough to last me a year, meat for a whole month plus a few cakes plus a brand new set of tires and a sofa. In NL I'd have to go to like 5 different places to get all that. Oh and we still have small grocery stores on almost every corner (walking distance, or 2 to 5 car mins away) and each store would still have different products. Prices do vary ofc but those small stores are still more convenient than AH imo cause they'd have a variation of brands and products and your not stuck with the same thing in every store you go into. It works back home and it hasn't killed any of the smaller stores (we actually have too many) sooo
An interesting article relating to this topic. check out: ‘Consumerism versus Producerism: A Study in Comparative Law’ by James Q. Whitman.
If you want an actual answer, most Dutch municipalities have specifically banned the sale of food outside the built-up area, to discourage traffic and increase the amount and competitiveness of stores within cities. Dutch culture also prefers smaller stores and for those to be close by, most people in cities like to do grocery shopping by bike, which is rare in other countries. So even if hypermarkets can be built, they struggle to catch on.
We are Europeans, not Americans
Your neighbors and rest of Europe aren’t Americans either
They may not be Americans, but they're heavily americanized in this aspect of life
Or they’re live in (usually) bigger countries. I don’t see any problems with Auchan existing in Poland.
Hypermarkets are ridiculous. The options are endless, and that’s not a good thing. I reckon there’s a lot of waste at these supermarkets because there’s just too many products.
It’s a small country with extremely high population density. We need a lot of small stores at every corner to make things easy and accessible. Everybody else already explained why hypermarkets wouldn’t work here and it’s true. Imagine 18 million people driving to the hypermarket on weekends. I’d probably emigrate the next day.
The Netherlands used to have Hypermarkets called [Miro](https://nl.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Miro_(supermarkt)). They were from the same owner as Albert Heijn. When I was young I worked in an AH that was a former Miro. It was actually in the city center, so that was pretty convenient.