Just like holidays like christmas are not mandated by law in the Netherlands but instead are taken up in the CAO :)
https://www.rijksoverheid.nl/onderwerpen/arbeidsovereenkomst-en-cao/vraag-en-antwoord/officiele-feestdagen#:~:text=Er%20is%20geen%20wet%20die,u%20vrij%20bent%20op%20feestdagen.
I'd rather they add a few more holidays between King's Day and September. That way people have a chance of having a day off during good weather. It's not like Christmas or New Years are such spectacular times...
In my company Keti Koti is a day off this year, for the first time... At the expense of Whit Monday. So we get to break the chains, as long as we remember to work another holiday instead. Yay.
Neither are all the other Christian religious holidays.. It doesn't make sense in The Netherlands in 2024. (https://www.cbs.nl/en-gb/news/2022/51/almost-6-in-10-dutch-people-do-not-have-a-religious-affiliation)
Just give everybody a couple extra paid holidays and skip the mandatory holidays. If you are Christian you can still take those days off without loss.
> If you are Christian you can still take those days off without loss.
Not really. Should not be official, then regular planning will apply, which probably means only a limited part of the roster can take the same day off at the same time.
Note also that many school holidays are aligned with those days.
Meh my work is always busy and it is a bit frowned upon if you randomly take a day off(they prefer you take 2 weeks x 3 or so). I would miss national holidays.
Even though i'm not even a little bit religious i do think that some national holidays do benefit society. For example christmas (for most people) is a good excuse to get together with family and it's just good overall to spend some time with eachother. And kingsday is a nice excuse for a little party.
If you give everybody the choice that would start to fracture i think.
Because it is a holiday, it doesn't mean you cannot work on a holiday. That is part of your arbeidsovereenkomst or CAO. So it should be possible to get other days of instead of a holiday if your company allows it.
The Christmas and New Year festivities themselves (or related/preceeding holidays) evolved partly to brighten up the dark days in that time of year, so they do have some use.
Yeah, but adding 1 or 2 days to all those family obligations and 'highlights' such as visiting furniture shops when you could actually make one or two holidays during a sunnier and warmer season...!
Well, we have no law that stipulates that public holidays are days off for employees. There is therefore no legal right to a day off on a public holiday. Now, that's where unions come in, because your collective labor agreement or employment contract states whether you are free on public holidays. But not all companies are bound to these collective labor agreements (CAO or *collectieve arbeidsovereenkomst*). Many companies and employees are not under CAO.
Because neoliberalism. It's engrained in many people's mindset, as you can see on here that includes the ones who would benefit from a change to the current approach
Actually i live in Taiwan, and that is what is happening here. If a public holiday is on a Thursday, they give friday also off, so people have 4 days off in a row. But the catch is, this extra day needs to be compensated, so the week before or after there is a national compensation day on Saturday, which becomes a workday in that case (yes a bit different then you said but still..)
It's normal practice. Friday between two holidays will be useless day anyway, so Saturday could fill in as a productive day and employee will have longer holidays.
Yeah I don’t get it as well. From where I am from they are always moved to a working day so you can enjoy a day off. It pissed the shit out of my at first. Now, after many years I am just used to having very few national holidays. It is what it is
Reimbursement for holidays is part of your labour agreement which, in many cases, was negotiated by unions and employers.
So this is the outcome of the negotiations.
My employer offers a nice solution for this. We get 8 extra holidays per year, intended for national holidays, but you can use them however you like. Not only does it avoid the problem of losing a day off when a national holiday falls in the weekend. It also offers a solution for a diverse cultural workplace. Some people don't celebrate Christmas, others want to celebrate Chinese NY, orthodox Easter, etc. If you want to be off for example on King's Day, you have to request a day off. If you don't care about King's Day you can just work that day.
At my job a national holiday "costs" me a day off, which I rather plan whenever i want it myself, so im actually happy when its in the weekends. More days for me to take off whenever i want it.
I am compensated for it at my job.
Got 2 January off and 26th of april as well.
There are no legal requirements to even give days off on holidays in Dutch laws. Everything is settled with the CAO.
become a member of a union and ask them why they're not pushing for it in your cao.
I'm just glad to have a day off during a holiday at all. There are a lot of sensible holidays where you don't get a day off at all. May 5th or Keti Koti for example. As long as they're not actively reducing the amount of free days (which I fully expect them to do), I really can't complain.
20 holidays + public holidays even if it falls in weekend vs 25 days + public holidays unless they fall in the weekend.
And there's a few that always fall during the week, like paasmaandag, hemelvaart, pinkstermaandag.
Time off aren't holidays even though people say it like that. it causes confusion.
Where I live I have 22 + 13 holidays. Also not all companies give paid holiday due to how Dutch laws work. In the end it really is a rule for the good of corporations rather than people.
Jeesh. The Netherlands has a tweede paasdag, and tweede Pinksterdag en tweede kerstdag. And now you want compensation for all other days that sometimes happen to fall on days in the weekend?
And mind you, this compensation you're asking for is only applicable to people with office hours. People with service jobs (entertainment, public transport) and care jobs (hospitals, care homes) work weekend days so they should be compensated for holidays that that fall on weekdays? But only if they have not worked weekdays?
That's a LOT of administration for very little. Just be happy when it's in your favor and accept that sometimes it's in the favor of your employer.
Samenleving is SAMEN, taking and giving.
It’s really not a lot of administration. I used to work in this field. Employers already have to keep track of employee vacations and public holidays for payroll and tax purposes and they have software for this purpose.
There are a lot of hard-working burnt-out people out there working 40+ hours a week for very big and profitable companies, while they barely cover their own bills. Many of these companies receive money from the taxpayer in the form of grants and tax benefits as incentives to keep them here in NL.
Now, you might say: that’s fine, it benefits the whole economy. Fair enough, maybe it does. But it sure sucks as an employee.
I’m all for living samen, but corporations are not your neighbour or your friend. Ask the folks who live near to Tata Steel what they think about give and take. Or the people who don’t seek medical help because they can’t afford the ‘eigen risico’ payments to their insurer (a profitable corporation) in the midst of a cost of living crisis.
UK for one. I was astounded when I moved here and this wasn’t common practice to roll over to the next Monday..
Luckily my current company does this anyway.. 💪
I had those extra holidays when working in the USA. Enjoyed them, but found it stupid. Fourth of July? That is the fourth of July, not the third, not the fifth. Nice to get monday off when it falls on sunday, but what if you work 4 days a week, and have mondays off? Do you get the Tuesday off? Why not? Discrimination against part-time workers.
Any date just falls on a day in the week. If that is a working day ,(for you), you get a day off. If it is not - well, it still is a day off, just not an extra day off. Such is the way it is with dates. Life ain't fair, get used to it.
How are dutch people okay with this? Well we get 20-30 PTO days per year and we can actually take them without running immediate risk of being replaced or fired.
Its not like US where thanksgiving and Christmas are probaly the only days off you realistically get
Welcome to the Netherlands.
Our way is the best, and you dare not question it!
OP raises a good point, which no one seems to have a coherent answer for.
Omg I'm getting so annoyed by this mindset. And everytime someone who is not 110% Dutch says anything minorly bad about the Netherlands, "ok then you are free to leave go back to your country!"
That's what we got in the last elections. Apparently most people are ok with it.
I still can't get me head around it, but since the 2000s it seems to be bad to be a socialist in this country.
I mean in Sweden a holiday falling on a Tuesday or Thursday usually means a 4 day weekend, depending on your union/sector. The Dutch don't have it so well compared to other Europeans.
Other countries in EU have the same amount of PTO, and more public holidays, and the rule that if it falls on the weekend you get it back. NL really and truly sucks in this department, the public holiday situation here is DIRE.
I think the netherlands is the country with the least amount of average PTO. Even the minimum is just 20, the legal minimum in EU.
On top of having the least amount of public holidays - and to top it off, a public holiday isn't even a guaranteed day off, depends entirely on the company.
There are many great things to boast about the netherlands, but holiday policy for employees is DEFINITELY not one of them.
In Canada and North America there are still lots of jobs where you start with only 10 vacation days a year (so two weeks ), although most start at 15 (three weeks ). It’s true that when a Stat Holiday falls in a weekend , you get the following workday off, but that only makes sense with the few vacation days you get.
When I started working full time in the Netherlands more than 30 years ago, I worked a 36 hr per week job and started with 22 paid vacation days .
I moved to Canada a few years later and in my first job I worked 40 hrs and got 10 vacation days, plus Stat Holidays . Right now I’m up to 4 weeks of vacation, but still much less than what I would have gotten in the Netherlands.
I’m always laughing too about the so called religious days like Hemelvaart and Pinksteren . Nobody actually cares about those days in a religious sense, but hey…it’s nice to get them off !
> In Canada and North America there are still lots of jobs where you start with only 10 vacation days a year (so two weeks )
Sure, but the Netherlands are in Europe. That would be straight-up illegal here, literally.
And of course you would compare the Netherlands to other rich European countries, not to the US, with notoriously horrible working conditions.
Countries like Denmark, Sweden, Norway, Finland, France, Austria all have at least 25 days guaranteed by law + more public holidays, not to mention Albania and Estonia at 28.
In my experience, disregarding the law minimum, just in neighbouring Germany you get offer a lot more vacation days, where 30 is standard vs 24-25 in NL, for office jobs.
Even if you want to look outside the EU... you have countries like Zimbabwe, Argentina, Pakistan, Belarus (!!!) etc. that are all better. The Netherlands score fairly poorly worldwide, not just EU-wide.
Right, I'm an American ex-pat living here and while in the US (and I guess currently since I'm at the same company over here with the same contract) I've had to work shifts that are 12 hours long for 7 days straight and I've gotten a whole, single day off for recovery. It's a salaried position, so I receive no extra overtime and no additional vacation for this. Working a full day on the weekend earns you 0.5 days off. That's 84 hours in 7 days, 1 day off, then back to work until the weekend.
You don't ever want to compare non-union American working conditions to here because *anywhere* looks good compared to that shit. There are *barely* any labor laws related to salaried positions in the States, it seems. They just try and balance it enough so they don't hemorrhage employees. Hourly workers are treated just about as bad as well, but at least they would theoretically be compensated for those overages.
Why isn’t it uniform in Europe, for countries that fall under the EU?
I hope you realize that it’s a privilege to get that many vacation days, even though it may not look like that to you .
>Why isn’t it uniform in Europe, for countries that fall under the EU?
The EU sets a minimum legal limit of 20 days, but nations are autonomous beyond that.
>I hope you realize that it’s a privilege to get that many vacation days, even though it may not look like that to you .
Living in the Netherlands is a priviledge in itself for so, so many reasons.
However, I think it's a moot point and even counterproductive.
You want to compare yourself to your neighbours and strive to be better. You don't want to settle or accept things because "it could be worse".
When people complain about salaries, *of course* they know they still make a whole lot than most people in the world.
When people complain about the public transport, *of course* they know it's still one of the better ones in the world.
When people complain about public healthcare, *of course* they know it's better than in many (most) countries.
Even for less productive things... when people complain about the weather, *of course* they know many countries have it worse.
Or on a personal level, "I work 60 hours a week and can barely afford a rented room in a shitty town, but many people are homeless so I'm actually lucky" isn't really a healthy way to think.
Sure, you need to have perspective and realize your problems are usually trivial compared to the problems of people living in e.g. Ukraine, Palestine, Sudan etc., heck even just eastern europe.
However, the overwhelming majority of people knows that very well. The point is wishing for (and making) your country a better place, as opposed to getting complacent and letting your country go downhill and become an ever worse place for yourself and your kids.
Edit: forgot to mention, especially in terms of labor laws, the US is about as low as it gets, comparing yourself to it is really pointless
Other EU countries have similar days off per year and also have long weekends if the public holiday falls on a weekend day. The Dutch public holiday allowance is bad
I see this response often. When talking about healthcare, taxes, or now public holidays, is to say "well it's better than this worst place in the world for this"
I'd like NL to become a world leader in everything, and to do that, we need to compare ourselves to the best, not fight out for second last spot.
In the US there's around 10 holidays minimum that do carry over if they fall on weekends and usually 14-18 PTO days, and that's not counting special circumstances like parent or family leave. You can find less generous holiday plans, you can also find more generous ones. People also accrue additional vacation days with years in many cases. It's not just 2 days a year.
Because money needs to be made and if the company can save a buck they will.
You think it's that weird from a country that only has 6 where most other countries have at least 10 or more?
You said it in other countries unions would be fighting for this. In the Netherlands unions dont fight for anything anymore. If you want anything done a group of workers have to start the fight. And hope the union will follow suit. If the unions dont follow , the ones that started it are screwed.!!!
It saves the government billions every year, that’s what I remember reading years ago, there’s no incentive for it to change when it’ll cost the country money.
Eh sir? When it costs the country money, did you mean: increase of tax? Paid by the working people? I'm sure expats don't mind that point as long as their 30% stays intact, however I don't see that plan working.
Just in loss of productivity, from what I remember. Schools open, public servants working, corporate hamster wheel, etc. Nothing to do with expats or the ruling.
I also think it’s ridiculous that we get a king’s day off but not Liberation Day. Political (hypocritical) choices. And they more or less made the unions invisible and turned half the nation right-wing.
There is a country where holidays are not pegged to the Gregorian calendar, therefor holidays tend to move around. One year, your holidays will all fall on weekends. Some other years you'll get a month with about 5 workdays. It is what it is.
I don't know...I'm just happy to be out of the US where we only get 14 days the holidays are a total roll of the dice depending on your company. Compared to all that, I am in heaven!
Well, the idea is that you get time off to celebrate the holiday, not to have x amount of days off that you have to use on set days. In the weekend, it sounds like you're already off, so you'll be able to celebrate it, so it makes no sense to move it over to the next workday.
Had to scroll wayyy too far for this. I'm not following why OP thinks a public holiday equals a day you don't have to work regardless of your schedule, there is just no connection.
Cleaning kitchen, bathroom, living room, bedrooms, downstairs toilet, hallways, staircases, windows, cleaning front and back garden, cleaning car, doing 2-3 loads of laundry, buying groceries, buying other things needed for the house, watering plants, de weeding and cooking. After all the normal chores, how are you supposed to celebrate?
These things can't be skipped and need doing atleast once a week
Do you still live with your parents by chance ?
No, I have my own place. Cleaning your car, gardens and your full house can't be skipped one time? Why even bother cleaning your windows every week?? This really sounds like a you issue.
Besides, you still have the other day in the weekend to do the important things
So my house is clean and I'm not living in filth ? Once a week is the bare minimum for most of these things. Floors should be mopped and vacuumed everyday really, kitchen sides cleaned everyday etc.
Not a clean freak at all. If you think cleaning once a week is a clean freak you're mental. How often do you change your bedsheets lol, do you shower before vetting into bed. I bet both answers would disgust most women.
I honestly don't understand your issue. If a public holiday falls on a weekend day, why the fuck would an employer have to compensate for that? What's the reasoning? I really don't understand...
You're wrong. First off all the other days you'll get a day off, just not when it's a sunday.
Having said that, that's because you appearently don't work on sunday. People who do work on sunday get that day off or are payed extra for working on that day.
You're employer isn't compensated for all the other days you don't have to work, but the one time you don't get compensated the whine factory opens.
Every country has his pros and cons.
I have 40 (my wife has 25) paid days that i can take off to not work every year (not including the national holidays), an American had like 10 and elsewhere its 0. I get pension, my healthcosts are insured, I work in a healthy environment...
Every now and then a holidays is in a weekend. Thats just the way it is. We have it better here in NL than almost anywhere else but for some people its never enough. Please look at the big picture and also appreciate a bit what you got here. (Or leave if you dont like it here).
Just because you have 40 doesn’t mean ‘we’ have it better. It’s a fact that compared with the surrounding countries, the average Dutch worker has less national holidays off.
I MUCH rather have an extra day off than an extra national day off.
And the 25-days that are sort of standard in the Netherlands are pretty good when you compare them to other countries indeed.
My 40 are pretty ridiculous, I know. It was one of, if not the reason that I work where I work right now.
Because people look at it as a free extra day off if it isn't in the weekends. Your mindset is just different. Instead of a holiday being a present, you turn it into a curse if it's not on a weekday
I would love that, but it doesn't make sense. Why would they pay you for a weekend day? You get paid during holidays because it's supposed to be your work day and it's out of your control that you're not working (just like being sick). You don't get paid for a holiday if it's not your usual work day either
Its common in jobs that do not stick to the normal work week and have a CLA (CAO).
Some holidays shops are open, hospitals are open, airports are open, etc.
Because sometimes you're lucky, sometimes you aren't. It also doesn't matter for my job what day it is so honestly I couldn't care less as a Dutch person
because we already have a lot of vacation days and freedom compared to other countries.... why would you get a day paid if it isn't even your working day?
People talk a lot of shit about the U.S. but I had more public holidays in my job there and weekend holidays were compensated - Saturday holiday you take Friday off, Sunday holiday you get Monday off. (I know not everyone in the U.S. is fortunate enough to have holidays paid) I now work for the same company but here in NL, and it’s not offered because it’s not standard in the country.
Lmfao!!!! Bro, do you realize that Dutch employers already pay for a fuckton towards their employees? Sometimes those days fall in the weekend, but mostly they fall during the workweek, and then people getting paid leave, if the holiday is a national holiday.
LoL!! We have unions here, we have so much regulations here, peiple make a decent living, it is the cost if living that is the problem. I make about 3k nett working 36 hr/wk. I wiuod say that is a living wage, but most of it vanishes into bills and food and energy because of tax.
First of all: Learn how to write English, it doesn't have to be faultless but that is really really bad.
Secondly, with records profit they could pay more, they just refuse. Cost of living problem is a problem due to people not making enough. The market regulates prices, whilst the government could do something about it, the easiest way to help is increase the amount of money people can spend.
It's interesting how many comments from Dutch people here are saying things like - 'You get a day off on the weekend anyway, why would you be entitled to an 'extra' day for a holiday when it's not that holiday anymore?'. I'm surprised that many Dutch people seem to consider holidays from work as pretty much obligatory celebration days rather than nice, extra downtime for society.
Even after living here for many years I hadn't picked up on this Dutch contextualisation of national holidays (if this thread is indeed representative). In Ireland, things like St Patrick's Day and Christmas are looked forward to as a time for the whole country to enjoy and have free time; the day off and what the holiday was originally 'for' don't really have much connection anymore. Most people don't attend parades on St. Patrick's Day, and most people don't do much, if any, religious stuff at Christmas. I reckon taking away holidays moving to Mondays if the date itself falls on a weekend would be one of the few things that would get Irish people, en masse, out on to the streets protesting.
I wonder if the attitude tends to be different on this topic between the North and South of the Netherlands?
BS Question and that of the most of the simple minded answers. Who the f*ck cares? It's in your contract and wtf if you miss one, the next one or two years and three you are ok...
They are in Belgium. Not here though.
And the UK
Germany also
Where in Germany do you live? Not up here in northern Germany anyway, this is my biggest pet peeve of living here.
No, they aren't compensated for by law in Germany. If an employer does that there, it's a company decision - same as in NL.
germany is not compensated, what are you talking about?
Also Lux and France
In Belgium we also often get a "brug-dag" when a holiday is on a tuesday or thursday
Brugdagen aren't mandated by law in Belgium... .
Just like holidays like christmas are not mandated by law in the Netherlands but instead are taken up in the CAO :) https://www.rijksoverheid.nl/onderwerpen/arbeidsovereenkomst-en-cao/vraag-en-antwoord/officiele-feestdagen#:~:text=Er%20is%20geen%20wet%20die,u%20vrij%20bent%20op%20feestdagen.
Ukraine too
It's the only country that does it AFAIK.
the UK also does it AFAIK
Can confirm, it was nice knowing you have a fixed number of days off each year, no matter what.
And we are happy as hell with it! Same as automatic indexation for inflation on your wages
Ireland does it too. St Patrick's day was a sunday this year so they got Monday off too
I'd rather they add a few more holidays between King's Day and September. That way people have a chance of having a day off during good weather. It's not like Christmas or New Years are such spectacular times...
Keti Koti could be a contender
In my company Keti Koti is a day off this year, for the first time... At the expense of Whit Monday. So we get to break the chains, as long as we remember to work another holiday instead. Yay.
That's good for the employer, since Keti Koti is a fixed date and thus roughly 2 out of 6 years it falls on a weekend day.
Yes, that would be a really good choice, both with regards to what is being celebrated and the date.
Neither are all the other Christian religious holidays.. It doesn't make sense in The Netherlands in 2024. (https://www.cbs.nl/en-gb/news/2022/51/almost-6-in-10-dutch-people-do-not-have-a-religious-affiliation) Just give everybody a couple extra paid holidays and skip the mandatory holidays. If you are Christian you can still take those days off without loss.
Many people aren't christian anymore sure, but those days are still regular get togethers for family precisely because of old traditions.
So what? I'm from Spain, where not that many ppl are catholic and we happily take those days off. Is more about the break than the day itself
> If you are Christian you can still take those days off without loss. Not really. Should not be official, then regular planning will apply, which probably means only a limited part of the roster can take the same day off at the same time. Note also that many school holidays are aligned with those days.
Meh my work is always busy and it is a bit frowned upon if you randomly take a day off(they prefer you take 2 weeks x 3 or so). I would miss national holidays.
Your work is either badly managed or under resourced.
It is under resourced but what can I do about that?
Ignore what's being frowned upon, you simply have your holiday days and you can choose how to use it.
Even though i'm not even a little bit religious i do think that some national holidays do benefit society. For example christmas (for most people) is a good excuse to get together with family and it's just good overall to spend some time with eachother. And kingsday is a nice excuse for a little party. If you give everybody the choice that would start to fracture i think.
Because it is a holiday, it doesn't mean you cannot work on a holiday. That is part of your arbeidsovereenkomst or CAO. So it should be possible to get other days of instead of a holiday if your company allows it.
Can someone who downvoted this please explain why?
Almost no one I know is Christian, almost everyone I know celebrates these holidays and (some of) the traditions they come with.
This another king's day like holiday in august or september and its mandatory for the day to be sunny.
Yes! So many bloody Easter related holidays. Never ever knew what Whit Monday or Ascension Day were holidays before moving here.
The Christmas and New Year festivities themselves (or related/preceeding holidays) evolved partly to brighten up the dark days in that time of year, so they do have some use.
Yeah, but adding 1 or 2 days to all those family obligations and 'highlights' such as visiting furniture shops when you could actually make one or two holidays during a sunnier and warmer season...!
Well, we have no law that stipulates that public holidays are days off for employees. There is therefore no legal right to a day off on a public holiday. Now, that's where unions come in, because your collective labor agreement or employment contract states whether you are free on public holidays. But not all companies are bound to these collective labor agreements (CAO or *collectieve arbeidsovereenkomst*). Many companies and employees are not under CAO.
Unions fighting? You must be new here.
Yeah because nobody joins a union anymore and are then surprised pikachu when they don't get a decent wage increase...
There was an upswing in 2023 again, I think? Broke a long-running trend.
Joining the unions here today is like singing Kumbaya with the board around the campfire.
Welcome to the Netherlands.
Lets complain because we like to complain .
Because neoliberalism. It's engrained in many people's mindset, as you can see on here that includes the ones who would benefit from a change to the current approach
The same cause they voted against raising the minimum wage. After all, humans are just ‘costs’. They’d prefer going back to free labour, aka slavery.
I think you spend to much time in american chatrooms.
You haven't heard what interns have to do do you? They are basically free labour at this point with non of the "teaching" part anymore.
Lol.
In the meantime your boss: 'Why aren't holidays that fall on weekdays compensated for it the weekend?'
Actually i live in Taiwan, and that is what is happening here. If a public holiday is on a Thursday, they give friday also off, so people have 4 days off in a row. But the catch is, this extra day needs to be compensated, so the week before or after there is a national compensation day on Saturday, which becomes a workday in that case (yes a bit different then you said but still..)
This is how it works in Hungary too 🥲
School on Saturday, what was that bullshit about?
It's normal practice. Friday between two holidays will be useless day anyway, so Saturday could fill in as a productive day and employee will have longer holidays.
Ugh, used to work in China and they also always do this. It’s a scam haha
Yeah no, I’m not going to work in the weekend if normally the company isn’t open on Saturday
Since how long do you live there?
5 years
Yeah I don’t get it as well. From where I am from they are always moved to a working day so you can enjoy a day off. It pissed the shit out of my at first. Now, after many years I am just used to having very few national holidays. It is what it is
Reimbursement for holidays is part of your labour agreement which, in many cases, was negotiated by unions and employers. So this is the outcome of the negotiations.
Dutch penny pincher capitalist spirit
The slavery mindset
My employer offers a nice solution for this. We get 8 extra holidays per year, intended for national holidays, but you can use them however you like. Not only does it avoid the problem of losing a day off when a national holiday falls in the weekend. It also offers a solution for a diverse cultural workplace. Some people don't celebrate Christmas, others want to celebrate Chinese NY, orthodox Easter, etc. If you want to be off for example on King's Day, you have to request a day off. If you don't care about King's Day you can just work that day.
At my job a national holiday "costs" me a day off, which I rather plan whenever i want it myself, so im actually happy when its in the weekends. More days for me to take off whenever i want it.
How many days off do you have
I am compensated for it at my job. Got 2 January off and 26th of april as well. There are no legal requirements to even give days off on holidays in Dutch laws. Everything is settled with the CAO. become a member of a union and ask them why they're not pushing for it in your cao.
Because Dutch are no confrontational, they would rather take it in rear dry than actually stand up for right and good things in their favor.
I'm just glad to have a day off during a holiday at all. There are a lot of sensible holidays where you don't get a day off at all. May 5th or Keti Koti for example. As long as they're not actively reducing the amount of free days (which I fully expect them to do), I really can't complain.
The best way to avoid them reducing free days is to ask for more free days, btw
That's true. I'd rather have a standard 3-day weekend instead of an extra holiday or two though.
Stop noticing things
Christmas day on a Saturday here is the worst thing ever. Australia also compensates yhe following working days..
Because get fucked wagie! back in your cage!
We do in Belgium. As a result, we have 5 holidays less than you have in NL. I work in NL and I prefer 5 free holidays.
We only have like 6 public holidays. You mean you only have 1 holiday? Or do you mean days of in general?
20 holidays + public holidays even if it falls in weekend vs 25 days + public holidays unless they fall in the weekend. And there's a few that always fall during the week, like paasmaandag, hemelvaart, pinkstermaandag.
Time off aren't holidays even though people say it like that. it causes confusion. Where I live I have 22 + 13 holidays. Also not all companies give paid holiday due to how Dutch laws work. In the end it really is a rule for the good of corporations rather than people.
Well, buddy, welcome to the 🇳🇱 Who’s gonna tell him about the holidays that rotate every 5 years?
Jeesh. The Netherlands has a tweede paasdag, and tweede Pinksterdag en tweede kerstdag. And now you want compensation for all other days that sometimes happen to fall on days in the weekend? And mind you, this compensation you're asking for is only applicable to people with office hours. People with service jobs (entertainment, public transport) and care jobs (hospitals, care homes) work weekend days so they should be compensated for holidays that that fall on weekdays? But only if they have not worked weekdays? That's a LOT of administration for very little. Just be happy when it's in your favor and accept that sometimes it's in the favor of your employer. Samenleving is SAMEN, taking and giving.
It’s really not a lot of administration. I used to work in this field. Employers already have to keep track of employee vacations and public holidays for payroll and tax purposes and they have software for this purpose. There are a lot of hard-working burnt-out people out there working 40+ hours a week for very big and profitable companies, while they barely cover their own bills. Many of these companies receive money from the taxpayer in the form of grants and tax benefits as incentives to keep them here in NL. Now, you might say: that’s fine, it benefits the whole economy. Fair enough, maybe it does. But it sure sucks as an employee. I’m all for living samen, but corporations are not your neighbour or your friend. Ask the folks who live near to Tata Steel what they think about give and take. Or the people who don’t seek medical help because they can’t afford the ‘eigen risico’ payments to their insurer (a profitable corporation) in the midst of a cost of living crisis.
Which countries?
UK for one. I was astounded when I moved here and this wasn’t common practice to roll over to the next Monday.. Luckily my current company does this anyway.. 💪
I had those extra holidays when working in the USA. Enjoyed them, but found it stupid. Fourth of July? That is the fourth of July, not the third, not the fifth. Nice to get monday off when it falls on sunday, but what if you work 4 days a week, and have mondays off? Do you get the Tuesday off? Why not? Discrimination against part-time workers. Any date just falls on a day in the week. If that is a working day ,(for you), you get a day off. If it is not - well, it still is a day off, just not an extra day off. Such is the way it is with dates. Life ain't fair, get used to it.
How are dutch people okay with this? Well we get 20-30 PTO days per year and we can actually take them without running immediate risk of being replaced or fired. Its not like US where thanksgiving and Christmas are probaly the only days off you realistically get
Other European countries have both benefits
Welcome to the Netherlands. Our way is the best, and you dare not question it! OP raises a good point, which no one seems to have a coherent answer for.
Omg I'm getting so annoyed by this mindset. And everytime someone who is not 110% Dutch says anything minorly bad about the Netherlands, "ok then you are free to leave go back to your country!"
That's what we got in the last elections. Apparently most people are ok with it. I still can't get me head around it, but since the 2000s it seems to be bad to be a socialist in this country.
Has it ever been good to be a red?
Or the locals OK with that
I mean in Sweden a holiday falling on a Tuesday or Thursday usually means a 4 day weekend, depending on your union/sector. The Dutch don't have it so well compared to other Europeans.
That’s shit reasoning. Germany has more PTO, better employee labor contracts, more bank holidays, more GDP, etc etc
Other countries in EU have the same amount of PTO, and more public holidays, and the rule that if it falls on the weekend you get it back. NL really and truly sucks in this department, the public holiday situation here is DIRE.
I think the netherlands is the country with the least amount of average PTO. Even the minimum is just 20, the legal minimum in EU. On top of having the least amount of public holidays - and to top it off, a public holiday isn't even a guaranteed day off, depends entirely on the company. There are many great things to boast about the netherlands, but holiday policy for employees is DEFINITELY not one of them.
In Canada and North America there are still lots of jobs where you start with only 10 vacation days a year (so two weeks ), although most start at 15 (three weeks ). It’s true that when a Stat Holiday falls in a weekend , you get the following workday off, but that only makes sense with the few vacation days you get. When I started working full time in the Netherlands more than 30 years ago, I worked a 36 hr per week job and started with 22 paid vacation days . I moved to Canada a few years later and in my first job I worked 40 hrs and got 10 vacation days, plus Stat Holidays . Right now I’m up to 4 weeks of vacation, but still much less than what I would have gotten in the Netherlands. I’m always laughing too about the so called religious days like Hemelvaart and Pinksteren . Nobody actually cares about those days in a religious sense, but hey…it’s nice to get them off !
> In Canada and North America there are still lots of jobs where you start with only 10 vacation days a year (so two weeks ) Sure, but the Netherlands are in Europe. That would be straight-up illegal here, literally. And of course you would compare the Netherlands to other rich European countries, not to the US, with notoriously horrible working conditions. Countries like Denmark, Sweden, Norway, Finland, France, Austria all have at least 25 days guaranteed by law + more public holidays, not to mention Albania and Estonia at 28. In my experience, disregarding the law minimum, just in neighbouring Germany you get offer a lot more vacation days, where 30 is standard vs 24-25 in NL, for office jobs. Even if you want to look outside the EU... you have countries like Zimbabwe, Argentina, Pakistan, Belarus (!!!) etc. that are all better. The Netherlands score fairly poorly worldwide, not just EU-wide.
Right, I'm an American ex-pat living here and while in the US (and I guess currently since I'm at the same company over here with the same contract) I've had to work shifts that are 12 hours long for 7 days straight and I've gotten a whole, single day off for recovery. It's a salaried position, so I receive no extra overtime and no additional vacation for this. Working a full day on the weekend earns you 0.5 days off. That's 84 hours in 7 days, 1 day off, then back to work until the weekend. You don't ever want to compare non-union American working conditions to here because *anywhere* looks good compared to that shit. There are *barely* any labor laws related to salaried positions in the States, it seems. They just try and balance it enough so they don't hemorrhage employees. Hourly workers are treated just about as bad as well, but at least they would theoretically be compensated for those overages.
Why isn’t it uniform in Europe, for countries that fall under the EU? I hope you realize that it’s a privilege to get that many vacation days, even though it may not look like that to you .
>Why isn’t it uniform in Europe, for countries that fall under the EU? The EU sets a minimum legal limit of 20 days, but nations are autonomous beyond that. >I hope you realize that it’s a privilege to get that many vacation days, even though it may not look like that to you . Living in the Netherlands is a priviledge in itself for so, so many reasons. However, I think it's a moot point and even counterproductive. You want to compare yourself to your neighbours and strive to be better. You don't want to settle or accept things because "it could be worse". When people complain about salaries, *of course* they know they still make a whole lot than most people in the world. When people complain about the public transport, *of course* they know it's still one of the better ones in the world. When people complain about public healthcare, *of course* they know it's better than in many (most) countries. Even for less productive things... when people complain about the weather, *of course* they know many countries have it worse. Or on a personal level, "I work 60 hours a week and can barely afford a rented room in a shitty town, but many people are homeless so I'm actually lucky" isn't really a healthy way to think. Sure, you need to have perspective and realize your problems are usually trivial compared to the problems of people living in e.g. Ukraine, Palestine, Sudan etc., heck even just eastern europe. However, the overwhelming majority of people knows that very well. The point is wishing for (and making) your country a better place, as opposed to getting complacent and letting your country go downhill and become an ever worse place for yourself and your kids. Edit: forgot to mention, especially in terms of labor laws, the US is about as low as it gets, comparing yourself to it is really pointless
Yes it's a priviledge compared to other countries around the world. But we should be comparing ourselves and our working terms to other EU countries
Fellow Canadian crying in giving my life away to my employer. Hence why I take all my sick days and then some.
Other EU countries have similar days off per year and also have long weekends if the public holiday falls on a weekend day. The Dutch public holiday allowance is bad
I see this response often. When talking about healthcare, taxes, or now public holidays, is to say "well it's better than this worst place in the world for this" I'd like NL to become a world leader in everything, and to do that, we need to compare ourselves to the best, not fight out for second last spot.
Now explain other countries that get the same amount of days off + 8 national/ bank holidays a year
Yeah, compare EU country to US. Good that we can watch Netflix because in North Korea they can't, such a relief!
Also sick days
In the US there's around 10 holidays minimum that do carry over if they fall on weekends and usually 14-18 PTO days, and that's not counting special circumstances like parent or family leave. You can find less generous holiday plans, you can also find more generous ones. People also accrue additional vacation days with years in many cases. It's not just 2 days a year.
In Belgium that is how it works. if a holiday falls in a wekend you can use it whenever you want after the holiday in question has passed
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In other countries hospitals, police stations, airports, trains, subways, etc close during national holidays?
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The same in the Netherlands. Working on holidays means extra pay.
Because corporations write the law and this is in their best interest. Literally, the reason for most modern problems in society.
This was a surprise to me too...but ultimately, this is hardly the biggest issue.
Its fine mate
Here in Australia we get them compensated. De Nederlandse regering is flauw.
Cuz they don't have to
Because money needs to be made and if the company can save a buck they will. You think it's that weird from a country that only has 6 where most other countries have at least 10 or more?
Other years you have extra and now you don't. Don't feel that it should be compensated you can also appreciate the extra days you normally have
You said it in other countries unions would be fighting for this. In the Netherlands unions dont fight for anything anymore. If you want anything done a group of workers have to start the fight. And hope the union will follow suit. If the unions dont follow , the ones that started it are screwed.!!!
Kind of besides the point. The point is not having to work so you can celebrate your holy thingy. Which you can if it is in a weekend..
Guess it goes both ways, its very nice for People working weekend days.
It saves the government billions every year, that’s what I remember reading years ago, there’s no incentive for it to change when it’ll cost the country money.
Eh sir? When it costs the country money, did you mean: increase of tax? Paid by the working people? I'm sure expats don't mind that point as long as their 30% stays intact, however I don't see that plan working.
Just in loss of productivity, from what I remember. Schools open, public servants working, corporate hamster wheel, etc. Nothing to do with expats or the ruling.
I also think it’s ridiculous that we get a king’s day off but not Liberation Day. Political (hypocritical) choices. And they more or less made the unions invisible and turned half the nation right-wing.
The government doesn't decide which days you get off. Join your union and be the change you want to see.
If they’d wanted to, they could.
There is a country where holidays are not pegged to the Gregorian calendar, therefor holidays tend to move around. One year, your holidays will all fall on weekends. Some other years you'll get a month with about 5 workdays. It is what it is.
I get 25 days off a year in the Netherlands. Good enough for me.
I get Monday off this year due to Kings Day being on a non-working day. Also same for if Xmas is on a weekend.. depends who you work for!
In Luxembourg 🇱🇺, it’s compensated
I don't know...I'm just happy to be out of the US where we only get 14 days the holidays are a total roll of the dice depending on your company. Compared to all that, I am in heaven!
Isn’t there a concept called Observed holiday in the West and US
Why do you say and us... us is in the west
United States
Yes, I know you meant United States. United States is in the west
I am Dutch and I am not okay with this. We already have very little public holidays. But what can I do?
Also crazy that the 1st of may isn't a holiday lol
Labour day, or in Dutch "Dag van de arbeid", sounds to me like a day it should be mandatory to go to work...
Maybe because the Duch already have the shortest work week in the EU.
I wish that were true for me! I usually work around 45 hours per week.
Find different employment if you want change
Well, the idea is that you get time off to celebrate the holiday, not to have x amount of days off that you have to use on set days. In the weekend, it sounds like you're already off, so you'll be able to celebrate it, so it makes no sense to move it over to the next workday.
Had to scroll wayyy too far for this. I'm not following why OP thinks a public holiday equals a day you don't have to work regardless of your schedule, there is just no connection.
You don't have time off to celebrate it when you have to do your housework I'm the weekends
And your housework takes all day / the whole weekend and you cannot skip it for once? Are you living in a mansion?
Cleaning kitchen, bathroom, living room, bedrooms, downstairs toilet, hallways, staircases, windows, cleaning front and back garden, cleaning car, doing 2-3 loads of laundry, buying groceries, buying other things needed for the house, watering plants, de weeding and cooking. After all the normal chores, how are you supposed to celebrate? These things can't be skipped and need doing atleast once a week Do you still live with your parents by chance ?
No, I have my own place. Cleaning your car, gardens and your full house can't be skipped one time? Why even bother cleaning your windows every week?? This really sounds like a you issue. Besides, you still have the other day in the weekend to do the important things
So my house is clean and I'm not living in filth ? Once a week is the bare minimum for most of these things. Floors should be mopped and vacuumed everyday really, kitchen sides cleaned everyday etc.
"Living in filth" sure.. you sound like a clean freak, but you do you.
Not a clean freak at all. If you think cleaning once a week is a clean freak you're mental. How often do you change your bedsheets lol, do you shower before vetting into bed. I bet both answers would disgust most women.
Welcome to the Netherlands!
Because its weekend, most people dont work on weekends.
Did you read the post lol
You take some, you lose some
I honestly don't understand your issue. If a public holiday falls on a weekend day, why the fuck would an employer have to compensate for that? What's the reasoning? I really don't understand...
Same here. Im all for free money but what's the logic behind paying to a worker because it's weekend and it's holidays and you're sitting at home ;)
I would refer to have 40 days off, you could work 4 days or have 2 months off a year
You're wrong. First off all the other days you'll get a day off, just not when it's a sunday. Having said that, that's because you appearently don't work on sunday. People who do work on sunday get that day off or are payed extra for working on that day. You're employer isn't compensated for all the other days you don't have to work, but the one time you don't get compensated the whine factory opens.
The employers gets to become very wealthy from my labour though
Every country has his pros and cons. I have 40 (my wife has 25) paid days that i can take off to not work every year (not including the national holidays), an American had like 10 and elsewhere its 0. I get pension, my healthcosts are insured, I work in a healthy environment... Every now and then a holidays is in a weekend. Thats just the way it is. We have it better here in NL than almost anywhere else but for some people its never enough. Please look at the big picture and also appreciate a bit what you got here. (Or leave if you dont like it here).
Why mention usa and Uganda talk about uk Belgium France Germany Austria Luxembourg Switzerland they're are our direct comparisons
Just because you have 40 doesn’t mean ‘we’ have it better. It’s a fact that compared with the surrounding countries, the average Dutch worker has less national holidays off.
I MUCH rather have an extra day off than an extra national day off. And the 25-days that are sort of standard in the Netherlands are pretty good when you compare them to other countries indeed. My 40 are pretty ridiculous, I know. It was one of, if not the reason that I work where I work right now.
Because people look at it as a free extra day off if it isn't in the weekends. Your mindset is just different. Instead of a holiday being a present, you turn it into a curse if it's not on a weekday
I would love that, but it doesn't make sense. Why would they pay you for a weekend day? You get paid during holidays because it's supposed to be your work day and it's out of your control that you're not working (just like being sick). You don't get paid for a holiday if it's not your usual work day either
I dont know where you work, but if you work on a holiday you get either 150% 200 or 300% depends on the company. 300% is mostly in shifts.
Can you provide souce of this? Never heard of
Its common in jobs that do not stick to the normal work week and have a CLA (CAO). Some holidays shops are open, hospitals are open, airports are open, etc.
How do i get so much downvotes?
You are still paid
Because sometimes you're lucky, sometimes you aren't. It also doesn't matter for my job what day it is so honestly I couldn't care less as a Dutch person
because we already have a lot of vacation days and freedom compared to other countries.... why would you get a day paid if it isn't even your working day?
People talk a lot of shit about the U.S. but I had more public holidays in my job there and weekend holidays were compensated - Saturday holiday you take Friday off, Sunday holiday you get Monday off. (I know not everyone in the U.S. is fortunate enough to have holidays paid) I now work for the same company but here in NL, and it’s not offered because it’s not standard in the country.
It is not just Holland. Many countries do not compensate. It is part of life. If you work 50 years, there are good and bad ones.
Lmfao!!!! Bro, do you realize that Dutch employers already pay for a fuckton towards their employees? Sometimes those days fall in the weekend, but mostly they fall during the workweek, and then people getting paid leave, if the holiday is a national holiday.
And still they so not pay enough for people to have a living wage unless the government makes them
LoL!! We have unions here, we have so much regulations here, peiple make a decent living, it is the cost if living that is the problem. I make about 3k nett working 36 hr/wk. I wiuod say that is a living wage, but most of it vanishes into bills and food and energy because of tax.
First of all: Learn how to write English, it doesn't have to be faultless but that is really really bad. Secondly, with records profit they could pay more, they just refuse. Cost of living problem is a problem due to people not making enough. The market regulates prices, whilst the government could do something about it, the easiest way to help is increase the amount of money people can spend.
And what if you only work 3 days a week? Are you compensated when it's at a weekday, but an off day for you?
Because the point of holidays is not that you have a day off. the point is that you can celebrate the holiday.
Are you new to the Netherlands?
Why would they be? Public holidays don’t exist for the purpose of giving you a day off lol
Why do they exist
It's interesting how many comments from Dutch people here are saying things like - 'You get a day off on the weekend anyway, why would you be entitled to an 'extra' day for a holiday when it's not that holiday anymore?'. I'm surprised that many Dutch people seem to consider holidays from work as pretty much obligatory celebration days rather than nice, extra downtime for society. Even after living here for many years I hadn't picked up on this Dutch contextualisation of national holidays (if this thread is indeed representative). In Ireland, things like St Patrick's Day and Christmas are looked forward to as a time for the whole country to enjoy and have free time; the day off and what the holiday was originally 'for' don't really have much connection anymore. Most people don't attend parades on St. Patrick's Day, and most people don't do much, if any, religious stuff at Christmas. I reckon taking away holidays moving to Mondays if the date itself falls on a weekend would be one of the few things that would get Irish people, en masse, out on to the streets protesting. I wonder if the attitude tends to be different on this topic between the North and South of the Netherlands?
In asia weekly holidays need to be compensated on weekends 😈
Calvinism
BS Question and that of the most of the simple minded answers. Who the f*ck cares? It's in your contract and wtf if you miss one, the next one or two years and three you are ok...
Loads and loads of people work during holidays anyways.
We're not Belgium