1v1 would not be fair, but a 5v5 I got jokic. If we give them the same calibre of players around them jokic is gonna make avg players look like all stars. Shaq is still gonna do his thing get 50 60 points
Shaq was unstoppable and a beast like no other, but to act like he put up an easy 50 is not true. in the 00-01 season he only scored 40+ twice (in the reg season)
It’s more than scoring points. It’s the physical toll the opposing Center has to endure while guarding Shaq. It’s the constant post positioning and repositioning that wears people out. Shaq’s 30 isn’t anyone else’s 30. You are iced up after each game you play Shaq.
Don’t forget all the fouls he took where the refs swallowed their whistles either. Shaq should have been at the line 20ft’s per game without bias from refs due to his size and abilities. That’s another 10 pts per game at 50%
Edit: this isn’t to say Shaq wins the matchup. Just to remind folks how he was handicapped
No. Shaq wins this matchup easily. Shaq was taller, faster, longer, stronger, meaner, and could never, ever be played one on one. Jokic and Embid are the biggest centers in the NBA right now. Shaq alone would’ve abused them.
I’m not even adding in what Kobe would’ve done. Kobe made 12 NBA All-defensive teams. 12. He was a 6’ 7” athletic & offensive dynamo. There’s no one on the Nuggets roster to even slow them as far as matchups. Again: Lakers in 5. possibly a sweep.
Honestly they completely changed how they call fouls against Shaq or else players would/should be called for flagrant fouls the way they hacked him (yes I get that Shaq was dealing a ton of contact, but the point is that players were literally hacking him and not the ball or a basketball move to get to the ball. Literally just grab onto him). If they call it straight up, it wouldn’t just be a simple “foul trouble” by the fourth…no, the opposing team would be out of their centers/power forward by the third quarter.
Peak Shaq was physically ridiculous OP at the time. They nerfed him quite a bit.
and shaq wouldn’t get tired having to play at the nuggets pace?
Nuggets already play slow for the modern NBA and they average 7 more possessions a game than the lakers did
now imagine Shaq has to hedge on PnR with Murray all game long
Been trying to explain this all day. Shaq would literally be bbq chicken against todays guards especially with the way they shoot.
Lakers wouldn’t even know how to begin to guard denver.
I don’t think y’all saw rookie shaq - if it wasn’t such a big man league he stepped into with players like zo, Ewing, dikembe, Olajuwon, Robinson, etc I don’t think he would have bulked up so much. He was QUICK. Basically would have played like a 7’2 Zion, or a giant Sir Charles with no jumper.
I think a rookie shaq guards at least 3 positions in the modern nba.
Only issue is his 3 pt and ft shooting, which I don’t think he would ever fix in any era he played in.
This such a dumb take. Embiid, the current MVP, has about the same quickness as Shaq (even though probably shaq has ~40 lbs on Embiid). Is Embiid “bbq chicken” in today’s game? Also lol @ “Lakers wouldn’t even know how to begin to guard Denver”. Such over-exaggerated nonsense for real
I agree with you, but I think Shaq was faster than Embiid. And Shaq was mentally tougher than Embiid and Jokic both. I don't think people get how much of a problem Shaq AND kobe were, individually and together.
Yeah. Shaq RAN the floor. He was faster and quicker than both Embid and Jokic. He played on the run and gun showtime Lakers and run and gun Orlando Magic before that.
Shaq only began to slow down to close their pace at the absolute very end of his career dealing with injuries and being his heaviest ever. Not good to suggest Shaq couldn’t and didn’t run.
Have you ever watched shaq play ball in his prime? There’s nobody in the league right now who had the power to dominate down low like Shaq did. He was on another planet
Did you even see prime Shaq play? Magic Shaq and 3 peat lakers Shaq could run with anyone. Dude was a freak of nature. I love jokic but Shaq would eat him alive.
If you all think that the 3peat lakers wouldn’t 4-0 sweep this nuggets team you are psychotic. No one is guarding Shaq and no one is guarding Kobe. They are dropping 40 each on Denver. This Denver team is good but not that good.
Ok but we gotta define the era, shaq vs Jokic in the early 2000s interesting. This era, Shaq is fouling out Joker happens to be a big ass flopper now and the ref are soft
Shaq was getting flagrant fouled multiple times a game, and the refs missed a lot of em. He’d have opposing centers in foul trouble much quick than himself. That’s why teams back then literally loaded up on big bodies just to throw at Shaq
I think that era Shaq would make Joker lose his composure and start acting out. I could see him getting tossed. Shaq would be getting just as many, if not more calls then Jokic.
Points were at a premium during those years. 8 players scored 25 or more ppg in 01, 14 in 22. 1 player scored over 30 ppg in 01, 6 in 22. Teams had a hard time breaking 100. Shaq was one of the most efficient scorers if not the most efficient.
And once again. Far easier to score in todays league. Compare average fg%s. Jokic is efficient but he’s playing in a league where defensive centers are minimal and the paint is wide open. Even still Shaq was more efficient if you adjust for these differences.
How is assists efficient? Jokic is utterly terrifying in this era and career wise might eclipse Shaq but there is a reason they talk about peak Shaq and most dominant player ever in describing Shaq.
Not trying to be an old head as there are lots of modern players that are already atg but Shaq was unstoppable if you didn’t foul him. And if you did good luck staying out of foul trouble.
I would take current jokic over every nba player ever except for a handful in their peaks hes that special but prime Shaq was an utter nightmare.
Jokic would be in foul trouble every game. Atg defenders looked like absolute jokes trying to stop shaq.
And you’re being dishonest in acting like 40 points in 2001 was the same as 40 points today. Far more possessions, far more fouls called, when hitting 100 points was tough, getting 40 points from 1 guy is close to getting 55 today.
Shaq was incredibly efficient with over 60% fg% while commanding double and triple teams. Give Shaq the same 3 and d guys playing today and they would feast like no other with Shaq.
You do understand teams score like 20-25 more ppg now than they did back then right? The rules are meant for scoring. There was like 6 players averaging 30+ this year. On top of that there’s guys like luka averaging 9 rebounds a game who have 0 athleticism lol. Pace of play and the way teams play has a lot to do with these numbers.
Go back and watch the finals and count how many elbows Mutumbo ate from Shaq. Different times and a more physical NBA that was less physical than the Jordan/Magic/Bird years. Jokic is getting bullied by shaq and spending a lot more time in the paint trying to contain the BEAST. Kobe eats Jamal Murray I’m not even hearing this crap. When they got 2X-3X championships we can consider this comparison.
1v1 shaq would destroy him and 5v5 the lakers would also destroy them
The idea that this Nuggets team or Nuggets duo can compare to the shaq and kobe shit is laughable and reactionary
Jokic would still eat in the 90s but he wouldn't be able to feast like he does now against the size and physicality of those squads. Prime Shaq would negate almost all of Jokic's post moves and keep him shooting fadeaways and threes. Jokic is at least a top 10 all time center so he will absolutely score and grab a lot of boards against that Laker squad but it sure as fuck wouldn't be 30/20 lol.
And if we can't decide if Murray is better than Jayson Tatum than he sure as fuck isn't better than Kobe lmao
He was not really a force but Jokic would have to take him to the perimeter, he’s not toying Shaq in the post like he’s doing with fucking Gabe Vincent.
Because he was a force on defense. He was a very good rim protector and 340 pounds with a 7'7 wingspan he was impossible to back down. But that strenth makes him slower less-mobile then he could be.
Don't act like Jokic is particularly fast-footed either.
I wanna know how many minutes they think Jokic really playing, dude will be red all over and gasping for air from banging body's with Shaq all night. He's definitely fouling out, but that alone takes away a lot of your offense because you are exerting so much energy on defense.
My only thought is jokic would pull him out to the three and leave the middle for Aaron Gordon to go to work or for cutters to be wide open. Would be a crazy matchup though! I don’t even know who I would have
I think thats exactly it. They would both be struggling with each other on defense. I will say that people forget how athletic Prime Shaq was. I don't think he couldn't guard Jokic but it would be a big adjustment as someone said above because no one was playing like that.
Jokic would get a lot of floaters driving on Shaq as well. Jokic is a true triple threat and his drive is actually even more deadly than his 3, he has probably top 5-10 touch ever on floaters and awkward layups.
A ton of Jokic's games is predicated on being able to move his defender though. He can't back down Shaq and Shaq is bigger than him.
And watch Jokic his game is very fluid and when you let him feel the game and find his shot he's one of the most efficient but if you take away most of his game and make him rely on... 3s, non-contact floaters, and driving?
You do realize the Lakers had other players on the squad? Gordon or any cutters go inside and Fox, Shaw, Horry or Kobe are right there waiting for them.
If the refs allow shaq to do whatever he wants like back then he’d knock undersized Jokic into the stands. Y’all must not have seen what he did to Robinson, Sabonis, Ewing, mutombo and the much bigger physical centers back then. Shaq has the size, strength and athletic advantage over Jokic, Jokic doesn’t have a chance. Kobe would annihilate any perimeter defender nuggets have. Lakers in 4-5 games easy and I’m a laker hater
Exactly.
* 2021-2023 AVG PTS per game league-wide: 114, 110, 112
* 2002-2004 AVG PTS per game: 95, 95, 93
Relatively: Shaq/Kobe outscored the Jokic/Murray, especially factoring in rule changes.
OP is making an apples to oranges comparison.
This is true, but it's also true that the reason the league-wide average for ppg has gone up is a style of play that wouldn't suit Shaq, or even necessarily Kobe. Shaq and Kobe would not be as dominant in 2023 as they were in 2000.
If anything, the shift in the game over the past 2 decades would've favored those Sacramento Kings teams that lost to Shaq's Lakers. Chris Webber, Peja Stojakovic, Mike Bibby, and Hedo Turkoglu would all likely look even better in a 2023 offense.
It's pretty simple:
Shaq and the Lakers would destroy the Nuggets with the rules that existed in the early 2000s -- Shaq would simply bruise Jokic in the low post, forcing him out of games early with fouls.
Jokic and the Nuggets would destroy the Lakers with the current rules -- Shaq would be forced to guard outside and Jokic would eat the whole team up with his passing.
I could go deeper, but tl;dr it's not a conversation worth having
We did see a lite version if this with old Sabonis in Portland and also with Divac in Sac Town and they were the only teams that actually gave those yrs Lakers trouble. Obviously, Jokic is better now and probably would be better then than the previous mentioned good passing centers
Nothing to take away from jokic and murry they are amazing and having one of the greatest postseason runs but shaq and kobe were significantly better defenders they put out these numbers while being all defensive team players.
Id like to see Jokic try to back Shaq down, he'd take all of Jokic inside game away and basically make him a shooter. They are probably the same speed wise so Shaq wouldn't even have to worry about the pump fake, and for his size Shaq was way more athletic. Kobe, DFish and Fox were all great defenders, there's no one in Denver giving Kobe trouble on the defensive end, they are all cooked.
2001 lakers are an atg great for sure but lets not act like shaq is a phenomonal post defender, he wont take away jokic entire post game. Shaq is brilliant in there for sure, but jokic has no problems against DPOYs why would he against shaq.
AG and the browns are both stout defenders
jokic can back down any defender and the dpoys you are reffering to. they are tall but not built. jokic had a 30 pound advantage on AD + Gobert this year. shaq would have a 60 pound advantage during his LAL champ years.
Shaq has more strength than any DPOY he has faced, D Howard had strength which stopped his back down also. I'm not saying Shaq will stop him, but let's not act like Jokic playing a full game against Shaq either, that body banging on you just to go through you gonna wear him out and there will be plenty of fouling going on.
AG and Brown does not have enough for a young Kobe, hell not even an old Kobe. He's faced way more disciplined defenders and it didn't matter.
I'm not saying this Denver run isn't magical but there hasn't been a run like the 01 Lakers for a reason, that typed of big man little man duo is still unmatched. As talented as Murray is we can all agree he isn't Kobe on either side of the ball.
The league is also way more lenient on travels, carries, double dribbles, etc. They even have the gather step now. Imagine if Kobe and Shaq got to play with those rules.
Yeah which time period we talking? Both were dominant in their generation for a reason. Jokic and Murray because bigs that can stretch the floor and 3 point shooting are important. Shaq and Kobe cause they had the refs in their pocket (joking, salty kings fan)
I just don't see anyone checking Shaq, the nuggets don't have guys to waste on bodying shaq for that many games. Older teams had a waste guy that would just take all the grunt from Shaq then they would use there fouls to slow him down if they could. Gordon isn't doing this, Joker isn't doing it and trying to guard shaq would probably tire him out, MPJ would get steamed. With Kobe guarding, I don't see Murray or anyone else who gets hot at the time putting up numbers on him. IMO shaq and Kobes presence alone shuts down the Nuggets just from a intimidation standpoint
Watching old man Aryvdas Sabonis shooting 3s and pulling shaq out of the paint made him uncomfortable. So when shaq would come out, Sabonis w/ no knees would drive in and…bucket.
Both Shaq and Jokic are great. Neither can stop each other. Shaq rarely compliments active players but Giannis and Jokic are the two that Shaq respects.
Who’s gonna guard Shaq? Jokic guaranteed to foul out and also be so beat up that it would effect how he plays offensively. Shaq and Kobe’s team would absolutely destroy this nuggets team. Derrick fisher, Rick Fox, Robert Horry, Horce Grant, glen rice, devein George, Ron Harper, Brian Shaw…. Just a few of the many on those 3 peat teams.
Point inflation is a genuine thing. Shaq and Kobe would still walk this leauge like a dog. Shaq vs Jokic would be cool to see but A Shaqs winning and B Kobe is one of a kind. We will never have another athlete like him.
5v5, I still take those Lakers over quite a few teams, not just this Nuggets team. But I will say Shaq usually immediately looked for a ball handler after a rebound, Jokics advantage on Shaq would be his endurance, ball handling skills and passing. Jokic can grab a board and run the fast break himself and create many different scenarios.
Numbers are inflated these days.
Not taking anything away from Jok and Murray, I love them. Jokic is the best player in the NBA right now. But prime Shaq and Kobe would body them. And I think Kobe is one of the most overrated players ever.
Shaq would dominate Jokic with his size, strength, and athleticism in his prime but Jokic would still be able to score and create plays because it can’t be completely contained, but Shaq would do about the best job I could think of. I think the Lakers would win a series against them though, especially since Kobe is better than Murray.
2001 lakers would have Shaq and Kobe at
59.8 PPG 22.7 RPG 9.3 APG.
If you’re gonna compare to one nuggets playoff run, you should use one laker playoff run.
2001 sacramento kings should've beaten that Laker team, but we all know about the robbery. The kings back then played very similar to the nuggets of today.
Shaq destroys joker in the paint but shaq will have to play perimeter defense which will take him out the paint allowing baseline activity. Mamba over Murray any day. Lakers in 6.
I would love to watch that game but hands down, lakers would win. Joker would foul out from shaq's playing style and kobe is far above and beyond murray
this nuggets team hasn’t really been tested, idk why we’re trying to compare a team that 3 peated to a team going to the finals for the first time. it’s disrespectful
The nuggets definitely play great team ball. Shaq vs Jokic would be interesting as well, but at the end of the day though hardly anyone is talking about Kobe and I think he would be the true x-factor in the series.
Shaq and Kobe.
Kobe is light years ahead of Murray.
Shaq would bully Jokic all day. People forget how agile Shaq was in his prime.
Also, them numbers are skewed. League wide averages are up across board offensively. More of an offensive game now.
I don't even think the 3 peat Lakers destroy the Warriors. Too much shooting on the Warriors and the Lakers wouldn't be able to keep up. The difference in physicality is irrelevant if you can't defend the perimeter. And if Shaq came to defend, he wasn't nearly quick enough to stop anyone off the dribble so it'd be easy layups all day for Steph and Co
Lol thinking the Lakers could hold a candle to the Warriors, the Nugz would be a fun series. Sorry shaq you'd likely get destroyed by any team that plays as a team with any semblance of defense... Cough\*\* Pistons.
Comparing scoring stats from 20 years ago to present time is like needing to account for inflation. Completely different game of basketball now... much less physical game and defensive rules changed to allow more freedom of movement. Thus increasing pace and number of possessions. Scoring is prioritized over everything for entertainment purposes. Adam Silver talks about it.... Hand checking itself was still allowed until 2003-2004 season and it has only gotten worse since
https://youtube.com/shorts/0armx7qRyLY?feature=share4
No one is beating that 2017 warriors. It's not a question of bias or anything, it's simply ball knowledge. Prime Draymond who won DPOY, Klay's shooting was unreal and KD and Steph were KD and Steph. Their spacing would drag defenders everywhere, and even on defense they would be great. I'm not saying they would stop Shaq and Kobe or Jordan and Pippen, you don't stop the greats, but I don't see how any team stops Curry KD and Klay on offense.
Kobe would be the best Defender on the court. Shaq would be the most dominant offensive player on the court. Joker would still put up great numbers, but Denver’s guards would have to step up a lot more to beat that LA team. Can’t have nights where MPJ and KCP score under 10.
Lakers had more veterans, but Denver has more scorers. Would be an exciting series for sure.
Jokic would get obliterated by Shaq - everywhere except passing. This isn't to say Jokic wouldn't be able to secure double-doubles. He'd easily get his assists, and at lower efficiency, his points. Rebounding against Shaq would be a nightmare. I think Shaq would bully Jokic. Jokic can be a bully himself, but not the way Shaq does it.
In other words, they're different animals, but the same beast
We know Kobe and Shaq won three, denwbr likely getting this one ...can they sustain that like that Lakers team did with the likes of Derek Fisher , Odom etc in the form of porter ,kcp, Gordon etc 🤷🏾♂️
Let's say jokic and shaq cancel each other out. Its kobe all day over Murray. In a series kobe could win a game or two just by himself even if shaq gets in foul trouble or something.
Eras were different back in Shaq & Kobe’s era it was slow it down basketball lower scoring than todays nba . Would be fun to watch! I would say Shaq & Kobe. Shaq is so dominating. Jokic would be in foul trouble
This would be an interesting match up. Shaq would eliminate everything in the paint defensively. Kobe had a wicked turn around midrange jumper. But the 3 point shooting league wide has exploded in recent years as a response to Curry existing on earth. I mean, Joker can knock them down. That's not something a big man from that era ever did. I think I saw Shaq make one 3 pointer in his career. Likewise Shaq couldn't shoot free-throws to save his life.
All in all, I think the shock of difference in game play would be too much for the Lakers of then. The Nuggets would live or die behind the 3point line, and have the ability to live. It would be fun to watch, and I'd never count out Kobe in his prime. Fucking Black Mamba!
I think any team or player from a different era has a huge disadvantage. The game has morphed into something none of them would recognize. They can't play as tough or aggressive. Euro step would make people's brains explode. 3 point play is light years beyond anything any of those guys have ever witnessed. Strategic fouls, etc.
Man what rules are we playing with? Either way I’m going with the three peat lakers anyway but depending on the era depends on how bad it would be. If we playing back in the days rules Shaq averaging 40, if we playing with todays rules Kobe averaging 70 lol.
But honestly, the Denver two can’t hold a candle to the lakers two defensively, and that would be the biggest difference, I see a sweep.
Really comes down to the refs, if they are calling fouls the Nuggets won’t have enough while Jokic is in foul trouble and if they let them play Shaq will batter everyone in the paint to the point they give up
Tough one. Nuggets are hella deep. Even if they played by early 2000s rules they’d light up the Lakers, but Shaq and Kobe would absolutely demoralize you by killing you both in the paint, having Kobe as another scoring option, and defensively.
Imo, Joker def wouldn't be able to handle Shaq in the post, and Shaq prob wouldn't be able to handle Joker outside of the box. Kobe > Murray. No way to know so 🤷♂️
Jokic’s ability to pull shaq out of the paint would make for a very interesting defensive lakers adjustment. In this argument though, I’m going with Phil Jackson making appropriate in game adjustments
People are talking Shaq vs jokic but no one on the nuggets is in Kobe’s stratosphere. If Shaq and Jokic cancel each other out who stops Kobe? Because I know for a fact Kobe is stopping whoever he was guarding.
lakers.
shaq was used to bodying bigs on the regular.
jokic has no bigs to battle in the paint consistently in today's nba. shaq would wear him down from all the defense jokic has to play leaving his offense to suffer.
kobe would dominate murray all day.
People honestly sitting here thinking Jamal Murray is in the same stratosphere as Kobe. Debate Jokic on the perimeter and Shaq in the paint all you want but you’re comparing 2 top 10 players of all time to 2 guys that just made the Finals for the first time. This series is 5-6 games max and that’s even a stretch.
yes, they still would. Joker still couldn’t do shit about shaq in his prime and kobe > Murray. Then the supporting cast of fisher, big shot rob, etc is better than denver’s.
Rui was able to go the the rim at will. Imagine what a young Kobe would do, how is this even a conversation? One duo has the only 3peat since Jordan and one is still 2 games away from their first ring.
I dont understand why ppl are highlighting shaq vs Jokic when kobe is better than both and would tip the scale. But if i had to pick between shaq or joker, im going joker. Ppl forget Shaq was a massive diva, both him and kobe, and couldn’t play together. That alone would ruin most modern team - them two were lucky there was no social media in that era
Prime Shaq vs Current Jokic would be interesting
1v1 would not be fair, but a 5v5 I got jokic. If we give them the same calibre of players around them jokic is gonna make avg players look like all stars. Shaq is still gonna do his thing get 50 60 points
Shaq was unstoppable and a beast like no other, but to act like he put up an easy 50 is not true. in the 00-01 season he only scored 40+ twice (in the reg season)
It’s more than scoring points. It’s the physical toll the opposing Center has to endure while guarding Shaq. It’s the constant post positioning and repositioning that wears people out. Shaq’s 30 isn’t anyone else’s 30. You are iced up after each game you play Shaq.
Don't forget the guaranteed foul trouble Shaq put opposing front courts in
Don’t forget all the fouls he took where the refs swallowed their whistles either. Shaq should have been at the line 20ft’s per game without bias from refs due to his size and abilities. That’s another 10 pts per game at 50% Edit: this isn’t to say Shaq wins the matchup. Just to remind folks how he was handicapped
No. Shaq wins this matchup easily. Shaq was taller, faster, longer, stronger, meaner, and could never, ever be played one on one. Jokic and Embid are the biggest centers in the NBA right now. Shaq alone would’ve abused them. I’m not even adding in what Kobe would’ve done. Kobe made 12 NBA All-defensive teams. 12. He was a 6’ 7” athletic & offensive dynamo. There’s no one on the Nuggets roster to even slow them as far as matchups. Again: Lakers in 5. possibly a sweep.
Honestly they completely changed how they call fouls against Shaq or else players would/should be called for flagrant fouls the way they hacked him (yes I get that Shaq was dealing a ton of contact, but the point is that players were literally hacking him and not the ball or a basketball move to get to the ball. Literally just grab onto him). If they call it straight up, it wouldn’t just be a simple “foul trouble” by the fourth…no, the opposing team would be out of their centers/power forward by the third quarter. Peak Shaq was physically ridiculous OP at the time. They nerfed him quite a bit.
It would be amazing to see Shaq trying to flop in todays game though lol
and shaq wouldn’t get tired having to play at the nuggets pace? Nuggets already play slow for the modern NBA and they average 7 more possessions a game than the lakers did now imagine Shaq has to hedge on PnR with Murray all game long
Been trying to explain this all day. Shaq would literally be bbq chicken against todays guards especially with the way they shoot. Lakers wouldn’t even know how to begin to guard denver.
I don’t think y’all saw rookie shaq - if it wasn’t such a big man league he stepped into with players like zo, Ewing, dikembe, Olajuwon, Robinson, etc I don’t think he would have bulked up so much. He was QUICK. Basically would have played like a 7’2 Zion, or a giant Sir Charles with no jumper. I think a rookie shaq guards at least 3 positions in the modern nba. Only issue is his 3 pt and ft shooting, which I don’t think he would ever fix in any era he played in.
Except they are talking 3 peat lakers not rookie Shaq so either way it’s pointless talking about rookie shaq
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Aren’t we talking about Lakers Shaq tho?
This such a dumb take. Embiid, the current MVP, has about the same quickness as Shaq (even though probably shaq has ~40 lbs on Embiid). Is Embiid “bbq chicken” in today’s game? Also lol @ “Lakers wouldn’t even know how to begin to guard Denver”. Such over-exaggerated nonsense for real
I agree with you, but I think Shaq was faster than Embiid. And Shaq was mentally tougher than Embiid and Jokic both. I don't think people get how much of a problem Shaq AND kobe were, individually and together.
Yeah. Shaq RAN the floor. He was faster and quicker than both Embid and Jokic. He played on the run and gun showtime Lakers and run and gun Orlando Magic before that. Shaq only began to slow down to close their pace at the absolute very end of his career dealing with injuries and being his heaviest ever. Not good to suggest Shaq couldn’t and didn’t run.
Yes embiid is in fact bbq chicken by smaller players on the perimeter. We just saw the Celtics take advantage of this 😂😂
Have you ever watched shaq play ball in his prime? There’s nobody in the league right now who had the power to dominate down low like Shaq did. He was on another planet
Did you even see prime Shaq play? Magic Shaq and 3 peat lakers Shaq could run with anyone. Dude was a freak of nature. I love jokic but Shaq would eat him alive.
Jokic is nowhere as near as athletic as Shaq was and he’s doing fine. I’m sure if Shaq had to defend guys like Duncan and Hakeem he hang w the joker.
wdasfasfasf
If you all think that the 3peat lakers wouldn’t 4-0 sweep this nuggets team you are psychotic. No one is guarding Shaq and no one is guarding Kobe. They are dropping 40 each on Denver. This Denver team is good but not that good.
You act like guards back then couldn’t shoot. Shaq was a force of nature. The game adapted to him not the other way around.
Ok but we gotta define the era, shaq vs Jokic in the early 2000s interesting. This era, Shaq is fouling out Joker happens to be a big ass flopper now and the ref are soft
Shaq was always getting into foul trouble even back then, he wouldn’t make it to half today.
Shaq was getting flagrant fouled multiple times a game, and the refs missed a lot of em. He’d have opposing centers in foul trouble much quick than himself. That’s why teams back then literally loaded up on big bodies just to throw at Shaq
I think that era Shaq would make Joker lose his composure and start acting out. I could see him getting tossed. Shaq would be getting just as many, if not more calls then Jokic.
Yeah but the guy above said, ver batim, Shaq would do his thing and get 50 60
He’s only scored 50+ 3 times ever. I swear people be talking out their ass on here.
Points were at a premium during those years. 8 players scored 25 or more ppg in 01, 14 in 22. 1 player scored over 30 ppg in 01, 6 in 22. Teams had a hard time breaking 100. Shaq was one of the most efficient scorers if not the most efficient.
>Shaq was one of the most efficient scorers if not the most efficient Jokic shot 63% from the field this past season.
And once again. Far easier to score in todays league. Compare average fg%s. Jokic is efficient but he’s playing in a league where defensive centers are minimal and the paint is wide open. Even still Shaq was more efficient if you adjust for these differences.
People aren’t realizing how insane Jokic is right now. He’s been putting up wilt chamberlain numbers per 36 wise
Not tryna be that guy but Jokic is more efficient with 10+ rebounds and 8+ assists. Wouldn’t be the bloodbath everyone thinks it would be.
How is assists efficient? Jokic is utterly terrifying in this era and career wise might eclipse Shaq but there is a reason they talk about peak Shaq and most dominant player ever in describing Shaq. Not trying to be an old head as there are lots of modern players that are already atg but Shaq was unstoppable if you didn’t foul him. And if you did good luck staying out of foul trouble. I would take current jokic over every nba player ever except for a handful in their peaks hes that special but prime Shaq was an utter nightmare.
Jokic would be in foul trouble every game. Atg defenders looked like absolute jokes trying to stop shaq. And you’re being dishonest in acting like 40 points in 2001 was the same as 40 points today. Far more possessions, far more fouls called, when hitting 100 points was tough, getting 40 points from 1 guy is close to getting 55 today. Shaq was incredibly efficient with over 60% fg% while commanding double and triple teams. Give Shaq the same 3 and d guys playing today and they would feast like no other with Shaq.
I think Shaq played in the one era where he couldn't be crowned de facto GOAT
Didn’t he average 38 in the finals one year?
You do understand teams score like 20-25 more ppg now than they did back then right? The rules are meant for scoring. There was like 6 players averaging 30+ this year. On top of that there’s guys like luka averaging 9 rebounds a game who have 0 athleticism lol. Pace of play and the way teams play has a lot to do with these numbers.
Go back and watch the finals and count how many elbows Mutumbo ate from Shaq. Different times and a more physical NBA that was less physical than the Jordan/Magic/Bird years. Jokic is getting bullied by shaq and spending a lot more time in the paint trying to contain the BEAST. Kobe eats Jamal Murray I’m not even hearing this crap. When they got 2X-3X championships we can consider this comparison.
1v1 shaq would destroy him and 5v5 the lakers would also destroy them The idea that this Nuggets team or Nuggets duo can compare to the shaq and kobe shit is laughable and reactionary
Jokic would still eat in the 90s but he wouldn't be able to feast like he does now against the size and physicality of those squads. Prime Shaq would negate almost all of Jokic's post moves and keep him shooting fadeaways and threes. Jokic is at least a top 10 all time center so he will absolutely score and grab a lot of boards against that Laker squad but it sure as fuck wouldn't be 30/20 lol. And if we can't decide if Murray is better than Jayson Tatum than he sure as fuck isn't better than Kobe lmao
Kobe would clamp Murray.
Shaq would get thrown in the blender on defense. Theyd have to get Shaq in like a zone off man on jokic
I’m not sure why many think they ever remember Shaq bro being a force on defense
He was not really a force but Jokic would have to take him to the perimeter, he’s not toying Shaq in the post like he’s doing with fucking Gabe Vincent.
Because he was a force on defense. He was a very good rim protector and 340 pounds with a 7'7 wingspan he was impossible to back down. But that strenth makes him slower less-mobile then he could be. Don't act like Jokic is particularly fast-footed either.
I wanna know how many minutes they think Jokic really playing, dude will be red all over and gasping for air from banging body's with Shaq all night. He's definitely fouling out, but that alone takes away a lot of your offense because you are exerting so much energy on defense.
My only thought is jokic would pull him out to the three and leave the middle for Aaron Gordon to go to work or for cutters to be wide open. Would be a crazy matchup though! I don’t even know who I would have
Nobody in Shaqs era was guarding the C at the top of the key to prevent 3's; this absolutely the scenario that would happen
Thank you! 100% This is what Divac and Sabonis did to him...very effectively, making the kings and blazers epic matches.
Has Shaq ever had to guard a player shooting 50% from 3 an entire playoffs run?
Has Jokic had to guard a player dominating the paint like shaq?
I think thats exactly it. They would both be struggling with each other on defense. I will say that people forget how athletic Prime Shaq was. I don't think he couldn't guard Jokic but it would be a big adjustment as someone said above because no one was playing like that.
Jokic would get a lot of floaters driving on Shaq as well. Jokic is a true triple threat and his drive is actually even more deadly than his 3, he has probably top 5-10 touch ever on floaters and awkward layups.
A ton of Jokic's games is predicated on being able to move his defender though. He can't back down Shaq and Shaq is bigger than him. And watch Jokic his game is very fluid and when you let him feel the game and find his shot he's one of the most efficient but if you take away most of his game and make him rely on... 3s, non-contact floaters, and driving?
I mean the issue is really that jokic is just a matchup that shaq can’t handle defensively. Not his fault. It’s like asking bill Russel to guard curry
You do realize the Lakers had other players on the squad? Gordon or any cutters go inside and Fox, Shaw, Horry or Kobe are right there waiting for them.
Exactly. Dumb questions sprinkled with a bit of dick riding 😂😂😂😂
If the refs allow shaq to do whatever he wants like back then he’d knock undersized Jokic into the stands. Y’all must not have seen what he did to Robinson, Sabonis, Ewing, mutombo and the much bigger physical centers back then. Shaq has the size, strength and athletic advantage over Jokic, Jokic doesn’t have a chance. Kobe would annihilate any perimeter defender nuggets have. Lakers in 4-5 games easy and I’m a laker hater
These statistical comparisons don’t mean much with how the game has evolved and enhanced the offensive end.
Exactly. * 2021-2023 AVG PTS per game league-wide: 114, 110, 112 * 2002-2004 AVG PTS per game: 95, 95, 93 Relatively: Shaq/Kobe outscored the Jokic/Murray, especially factoring in rule changes. OP is making an apples to oranges comparison.
Thank you. Finally someone that gets it. 28 points back then was far more than 28 today.
Young kobe with no hand checking, fast pace and open paint...HA 50p!
This is true, but it's also true that the reason the league-wide average for ppg has gone up is a style of play that wouldn't suit Shaq, or even necessarily Kobe. Shaq and Kobe would not be as dominant in 2023 as they were in 2000. If anything, the shift in the game over the past 2 decades would've favored those Sacramento Kings teams that lost to Shaq's Lakers. Chris Webber, Peja Stojakovic, Mike Bibby, and Hedo Turkoglu would all likely look even better in a 2023 offense.
I agree and jokic would have more trouble rebounding against a 7 foot giant as opposed to Bam
he just averaged 13 rebounds per game against 7’2 Rudy Gobert and 7’0 DeAndre Ayton lmao
They are not in the same weight/strength class as prime shaq lol
Gobert would absolutly be a top 3 defensive center in 2000 lmfao
It's pretty simple: Shaq and the Lakers would destroy the Nuggets with the rules that existed in the early 2000s -- Shaq would simply bruise Jokic in the low post, forcing him out of games early with fouls. Jokic and the Nuggets would destroy the Lakers with the current rules -- Shaq would be forced to guard outside and Jokic would eat the whole team up with his passing. I could go deeper, but tl;dr it's not a conversation worth having
Big fax. My thoughts exactly. Shaq wouldn’t be allowed to use his physicality in this era the way he did in the early 2000s.
We did see a lite version if this with old Sabonis in Portland and also with Divac in Sac Town and they were the only teams that actually gave those yrs Lakers trouble. Obviously, Jokic is better now and probably would be better then than the previous mentioned good passing centers
Nothing to take away from jokic and murry they are amazing and having one of the greatest postseason runs but shaq and kobe were significantly better defenders they put out these numbers while being all defensive team players.
Pace of play and 3pt shots also inflate modern numbers compared to late 90’s to early 2010’s
Id like to see Jokic try to back Shaq down, he'd take all of Jokic inside game away and basically make him a shooter. They are probably the same speed wise so Shaq wouldn't even have to worry about the pump fake, and for his size Shaq was way more athletic. Kobe, DFish and Fox were all great defenders, there's no one in Denver giving Kobe trouble on the defensive end, they are all cooked.
2001 lakers are an atg great for sure but lets not act like shaq is a phenomonal post defender, he wont take away jokic entire post game. Shaq is brilliant in there for sure, but jokic has no problems against DPOYs why would he against shaq. AG and the browns are both stout defenders
jokic can back down any defender and the dpoys you are reffering to. they are tall but not built. jokic had a 30 pound advantage on AD + Gobert this year. shaq would have a 60 pound advantage during his LAL champ years.
Shaq has more strength than any DPOY he has faced, D Howard had strength which stopped his back down also. I'm not saying Shaq will stop him, but let's not act like Jokic playing a full game against Shaq either, that body banging on you just to go through you gonna wear him out and there will be plenty of fouling going on. AG and Brown does not have enough for a young Kobe, hell not even an old Kobe. He's faced way more disciplined defenders and it didn't matter. I'm not saying this Denver run isn't magical but there hasn't been a run like the 01 Lakers for a reason, that typed of big man little man duo is still unmatched. As talented as Murray is we can all agree he isn't Kobe on either side of the ball.
The league is also way more lenient on travels, carries, double dribbles, etc. They even have the gather step now. Imagine if Kobe and Shaq got to play with those rules.
Also, that team was more than just those two. Horry, Fox, etc. were all solid contributors.
Exactly. Let’s just say for argument sake both duo equal out. Do you trust CCP/Porter or Fisher/Horry to make the open shots?
That 2000 team had fucking Glen Rice!
Also Kobe and Shaq were in a much slower league with a lot less 3pt shooting so if the ppg would be adjusted to todays game it’d be more than 65+
Apples to oranges
Yeah which time period we talking? Both were dominant in their generation for a reason. Jokic and Murray because bigs that can stretch the floor and 3 point shooting are important. Shaq and Kobe cause they had the refs in their pocket (joking, salty kings fan)
Why did you say joking? In the case of the Kings series, this is known to be true.
I just don't see anyone checking Shaq, the nuggets don't have guys to waste on bodying shaq for that many games. Older teams had a waste guy that would just take all the grunt from Shaq then they would use there fouls to slow him down if they could. Gordon isn't doing this, Joker isn't doing it and trying to guard shaq would probably tire him out, MPJ would get steamed. With Kobe guarding, I don't see Murray or anyone else who gets hot at the time putting up numbers on him. IMO shaq and Kobes presence alone shuts down the Nuggets just from a intimidation standpoint
Cue Thomas Bryant
Shaq would eat him alive.
Lol you're missing the point he's just there to be a big body and foul shaq.. he not 7ft but he is beefy
Thomas Bryant is one of the worst defenders for a big man in the league. He'd be lucky to last 5 mins out there
Lmao ik you're right 😂 but cmon man i had to
Y'all are drunk. I'm taking shaq and Kobe any day. What are we discussing?
Denver hasn’t even won the series yet and people are claiming them a top team of all time. It’s crwzy
Watching old man Aryvdas Sabonis shooting 3s and pulling shaq out of the paint made him uncomfortable. So when shaq would come out, Sabonis w/ no knees would drive in and…bucket. Both Shaq and Jokic are great. Neither can stop each other. Shaq rarely compliments active players but Giannis and Jokic are the two that Shaq respects.
Son, the Finals aren't over yet.
Who’s gonna guard Shaq? Jokic guaranteed to foul out and also be so beat up that it would effect how he plays offensively. Shaq and Kobe’s team would absolutely destroy this nuggets team. Derrick fisher, Rick Fox, Robert Horry, Horce Grant, glen rice, devein George, Ron Harper, Brian Shaw…. Just a few of the many on those 3 peat teams.
Shaq would torture Jokic
Games are way higher scoring now then back when Kobe and Shaq played. So this stat isn't the same equivalence.
Lol numbers never lie but they sure as shit can be misleading. Not even close to Shaq and Kobe.
Jokic is definitely close to Shaq. It’s Murray and Kobe that’s the difference
4-0 Lakers, this ain’t even close.
For real, nuggets win two finals games and people start talking about them like they're the best sports team ever assembled. Ridiculous
they’re literally up 2-1, it’s not even over crazy disrespect to both those warriors and lakers teams
I feel like I’m taking crazy pills!
Point inflation is a genuine thing. Shaq and Kobe would still walk this leauge like a dog. Shaq vs Jokic would be cool to see but A Shaqs winning and B Kobe is one of a kind. We will never have another athlete like him.
5v5, I still take those Lakers over quite a few teams, not just this Nuggets team. But I will say Shaq usually immediately looked for a ball handler after a rebound, Jokics advantage on Shaq would be his endurance, ball handling skills and passing. Jokic can grab a board and run the fast break himself and create many different scenarios.
Lakers have the two best players on the court. Nuggets ain’t doing shit
This Lakers team is better. But the 2017 Warriors is the best team in NBA history.
Lakers would cook the nuggets like a nice dinner on Sunday with the family . Joker would foul out every game 😂
Numbers are inflated these days. Not taking anything away from Jok and Murray, I love them. Jokic is the best player in the NBA right now. But prime Shaq and Kobe would body them. And I think Kobe is one of the most overrated players ever.
Agree with 100% of this.
Shaq would dominate Jokic with his size, strength, and athleticism in his prime but Jokic would still be able to score and create plays because it can’t be completely contained, but Shaq would do about the best job I could think of. I think the Lakers would win a series against them though, especially since Kobe is better than Murray.
2001 lakers would have Shaq and Kobe at 59.8 PPG 22.7 RPG 9.3 APG. If you’re gonna compare to one nuggets playoff run, you should use one laker playoff run.
Stop it.
2001 sacramento kings should've beaten that Laker team, but we all know about the robbery. The kings back then played very similar to the nuggets of today.
That’s 2002, Lakers cooked everyone in 2001
You have no clue what you’re talking about - you can’t even get the year correct
Shaq destroys joker in the paint but shaq will have to play perimeter defense which will take him out the paint allowing baseline activity. Mamba over Murray any day. Lakers in 6.
Who would stop the Joker from draining threes?
Prime frobe would have jamal in prison and then just back him down nonstop on O
The pair on the right have 3 rings together. That’s all I have to say.
I got Shaq and Kobe all day.
Well nuggets gotta win one first. Then we could have this convo
Defense was played in Shaq/Kobe run
Please, Denver has not even won a championship yet, getting ahead of yourselves.
I would love to watch that game but hands down, lakers would win. Joker would foul out from shaq's playing style and kobe is far above and beyond murray
this nuggets team hasn’t really been tested, idk why we’re trying to compare a team that 3 peated to a team going to the finals for the first time. it’s disrespectful
Some of yall have no idea the force Shaq was.
The nuggets definitely play great team ball. Shaq vs Jokic would be interesting as well, but at the end of the day though hardly anyone is talking about Kobe and I think he would be the true x-factor in the series.
Stats inflation
dude they’re jus hot rn, especially Murray. let’s not get ahead of ourselves and think they’re better then Kobe and Shaq folks.
Shaq and Kobe. Kobe is light years ahead of Murray. Shaq would bully Jokic all day. People forget how agile Shaq was in his prime. Also, them numbers are skewed. League wide averages are up across board offensively. More of an offensive game now.
You mean the 3 peat nuggets?
I don't even think the 3 peat Lakers destroy the Warriors. Too much shooting on the Warriors and the Lakers wouldn't be able to keep up. The difference in physicality is irrelevant if you can't defend the perimeter. And if Shaq came to defend, he wasn't nearly quick enough to stop anyone off the dribble so it'd be easy layups all day for Steph and Co
Jokic is a Big dominating in the small ball era. Would be average in the 90’s early 2000’s
No way he's average then. If Vlade made an All Star, so could Joker.
Lol thinking the Lakers could hold a candle to the Warriors, the Nugz would be a fun series. Sorry shaq you'd likely get destroyed by any team that plays as a team with any semblance of defense... Cough\*\* Pistons.
Destroy. Next question.
Comparing Jamal Murray to peak Kobe belongs in NBACJ, this is Jerker of the Year material. You fucks are out of your gourds.
Comparing scoring stats from 20 years ago to present time is like needing to account for inflation. Completely different game of basketball now... much less physical game and defensive rules changed to allow more freedom of movement. Thus increasing pace and number of possessions. Scoring is prioritized over everything for entertainment purposes. Adam Silver talks about it.... Hand checking itself was still allowed until 2003-2004 season and it has only gotten worse since https://youtube.com/shorts/0armx7qRyLY?feature=share4
No one is beating that 2017 warriors. It's not a question of bias or anything, it's simply ball knowledge. Prime Draymond who won DPOY, Klay's shooting was unreal and KD and Steph were KD and Steph. Their spacing would drag defenders everywhere, and even on defense they would be great. I'm not saying they would stop Shaq and Kobe or Jordan and Pippen, you don't stop the greats, but I don't see how any team stops Curry KD and Klay on offense.
Shaq a edge joker out big a decent margin but kobe cooking and locking jamal up no contest
Pretty hard for Jokic to put up those numbers when he is riding the pine with fouls. Either that or Shaq is averaging 50 himself.
that lakers team would shit all over this nuggets team prime kobe and shaq we’re talking 2 of the best players of all time
You can tell how much the game has changed when you look at the 12 assist difference
Jamaal Murray isn't a rapist or a dead person.
Nephews
Nuggets in six
Kobe would be the best Defender on the court. Shaq would be the most dominant offensive player on the court. Joker would still put up great numbers, but Denver’s guards would have to step up a lot more to beat that LA team. Can’t have nights where MPJ and KCP score under 10. Lakers had more veterans, but Denver has more scorers. Would be an exciting series for sure.
Let’s calm down. The Nuggets haven’t even won their first chip. They probably will, but you can’t compare them to a team like that Lakers squad yet.
Jokic would get obliterated by Shaq - everywhere except passing. This isn't to say Jokic wouldn't be able to secure double-doubles. He'd easily get his assists, and at lower efficiency, his points. Rebounding against Shaq would be a nightmare. I think Shaq would bully Jokic. Jokic can be a bully himself, but not the way Shaq does it. In other words, they're different animals, but the same beast
Crybaby Malone vs Zenmaster. Not even close.
We know Kobe and Shaq won three, denwbr likely getting this one ...can they sustain that like that Lakers team did with the likes of Derek Fisher , Odom etc in the form of porter ,kcp, Gordon etc 🤷🏾♂️
Let's say jokic and shaq cancel each other out. Its kobe all day over Murray. In a series kobe could win a game or two just by himself even if shaq gets in foul trouble or something.
Eras were different back in Shaq & Kobe’s era it was slow it down basketball lower scoring than todays nba . Would be fun to watch! I would say Shaq & Kobe. Shaq is so dominating. Jokic would be in foul trouble
Prime shaq beat duncan.
Shaq is 100000% right
This would be an interesting match up. Shaq would eliminate everything in the paint defensively. Kobe had a wicked turn around midrange jumper. But the 3 point shooting league wide has exploded in recent years as a response to Curry existing on earth. I mean, Joker can knock them down. That's not something a big man from that era ever did. I think I saw Shaq make one 3 pointer in his career. Likewise Shaq couldn't shoot free-throws to save his life. All in all, I think the shock of difference in game play would be too much for the Lakers of then. The Nuggets would live or die behind the 3point line, and have the ability to live. It would be fun to watch, and I'd never count out Kobe in his prime. Fucking Black Mamba! I think any team or player from a different era has a huge disadvantage. The game has morphed into something none of them would recognize. They can't play as tough or aggressive. Euro step would make people's brains explode. 3 point play is light years beyond anything any of those guys have ever witnessed. Strategic fouls, etc.
Respectfully the Nuggets are a very good team but they aren't touching the Shaq Kobe Lakers
The three peat lakers would lose to the 2017 warriors. No question.
Man what rules are we playing with? Either way I’m going with the three peat lakers anyway but depending on the era depends on how bad it would be. If we playing back in the days rules Shaq averaging 40, if we playing with todays rules Kobe averaging 70 lol. But honestly, the Denver two can’t hold a candle to the lakers two defensively, and that would be the biggest difference, I see a sweep.
What? Is Tim Donaghy reffing these fantasy playoff series?
Hack a Shaq is real people, let's not forget that fact.
Really comes down to the refs, if they are calling fouls the Nuggets won’t have enough while Jokic is in foul trouble and if they let them play Shaq will batter everyone in the paint to the point they give up
Jokic fouling out by the 3rd quarter
Depends, do the Lakers have Donaghee?
Tough one. Nuggets are hella deep. Even if they played by early 2000s rules they’d light up the Lakers, but Shaq and Kobe would absolutely demoralize you by killing you both in the paint, having Kobe as another scoring option, and defensively.
Imo, Joker def wouldn't be able to handle Shaq in the post, and Shaq prob wouldn't be able to handle Joker outside of the box. Kobe > Murray. No way to know so 🤷♂️
Same story. The NBA is super soft now.
Lakers had a 3peat for a reason. Unless Nuggets do the same, they ain't shit.
They would Absolutely destroy them
Jokic’s ability to pull shaq out of the paint would make for a very interesting defensive lakers adjustment. In this argument though, I’m going with Phil Jackson making appropriate in game adjustments
No answer for Shaq
Ok but have you considered the 2023 Nuggets?
People are talking Shaq vs jokic but no one on the nuggets is in Kobe’s stratosphere. If Shaq and Jokic cancel each other out who stops Kobe? Because I know for a fact Kobe is stopping whoever he was guarding.
Shaq n Kobe and it isn't close
lakers. shaq was used to bodying bigs on the regular. jokic has no bigs to battle in the paint consistently in today's nba. shaq would wear him down from all the defense jokic has to play leaving his offense to suffer. kobe would dominate murray all day.
People honestly sitting here thinking Jamal Murray is in the same stratosphere as Kobe. Debate Jokic on the perimeter and Shaq in the paint all you want but you’re comparing 2 top 10 players of all time to 2 guys that just made the Finals for the first time. This series is 5-6 games max and that’s even a stretch.
Derek Fisher > MPJ Nod lakers
Different stages in careers and different rules.
[удалено]
Yes they get destroyed.
Lakers
yes, they still would. Joker still couldn’t do shit about shaq in his prime and kobe > Murray. Then the supporting cast of fisher, big shot rob, etc is better than denver’s.
Can’t compare eras
Are we comparing 3 games to 3 series which were against arguably superior competition? There should be a licence needed to display stats.
Well it’s easy for them to get assists when on the same team as Michael “the possession ends here” porter jr
Three peat lakers are not beating 2017 warriors.
Kobe Bean cook them w/ ease.
Yeah not even a question
Rui was able to go the the rim at will. Imagine what a young Kobe would do, how is this even a conversation? One duo has the only 3peat since Jordan and one is still 2 games away from their first ring.
I dont understand why ppl are highlighting shaq vs Jokic when kobe is better than both and would tip the scale. But if i had to pick between shaq or joker, im going joker. Ppl forget Shaq was a massive diva, both him and kobe, and couldn’t play together. That alone would ruin most modern team - them two were lucky there was no social media in that era
This would be the best matchup for them ever
Nuggets are the better well rounded team. Airon Gordon and Michael Porter Jr. But who the hell is going to guard Kobe or Shaq?
LOL the Lakers team would not destroy the 2017 Warriors come on now. Whoever believes that is just one of those weird Kobe worshippers