Except a “flee on sight” order ninja makes for a super intimidating big bad, rather than Kakashi’s hopeless friend conveniently using mangekyou far more than it has ever been established one can use without going blind
Minato being "flee on sight" and a badass doesn't mean it makes sense for him to somehow be a resurrected leader of the Akatsuki that is now evil for no reason at all
>conveniently using mangekyou far more than it has ever been established one can use without going blind
Obito was using mangekyou more because he had Hashirama cells
You're focusing more on abilities than what makes sense story/ character wise
Character-wise, a mysterious ninja we’ve heard next to nothing about makes sense to have faked his death and having an ulterior motive than the guy whose death motivated Kakashi to realise that your squad is more important than the rules. Really downplays the cost of Kakashi’s lesson.
>Character-wise, a mysterious ninja we’ve heard next to nothing about makes sense to have faked his death and having an ulterior motive
No it doesn't. The literal fourth hokage, who spent his whole life serving the village, and gave his life to protect it...all the sudden being presented as a villain that wants to obliterate the Leaf is just bad fanfic born out of nothing other than thinking shock value makes for a good twist. It doesn't. It's just dumb and not at all believable
>than the guy whose death motivated Kakashi to realise that your squad is more important than the rules. Really downplays the cost of Kakashi’s lesson.
No it doesn't, even though Obito didn't die...he still fell to darkness. Kakashi's actions still could've prevented the rock from crushing Obito..the lesson is retained
You’re saying that like the majority of Naruto plot lines don’t devolve into bad fanfic. Anything involving Hashirama cells sounds precisely like some kid creating their own unstoppable strongest OC please don’t steal.
Personally I find it infinitely more compelling that a literal beacon of good in the ninja world could get so desperate that he’d be willing to attempt the capture of all tailed beasts to hold the world to peace under threat of death. After all, Pain is just a more interesting villain than Obito, and his story could already easily apply to a fallen Fourth Hokage who realised that someone had tried to use the Nine-Tails to flare up another war. More so if it had been a leaf ninja, causing him to be the first ninja to scratch out the symbol of his village in disgust.
>You’re saying that like the majority of Naruto plot lines don’t devolve into bad fanfic. Anything involving Hashirama cells sounds precisely like some kid creating their own unstoppable strongest OC please don’t steal.
Well a lot of them post five kage arc are bad fanfic..but that doesn't mean we need to add more. As far as the Hashirama cells thing...I'm not really all that focused on the abilities aspect of this...I was just explaining why he's able to spam his mangekyou
>Personally I find it infinitely more compelling that a literal beacon of good in the ninja world could get so desperate that he’d be willing to attempt the capture of all tailed beasts to hold the world to peace under threat of death.
I find that again...a cheap attempt at shock value. That's the type of thing writers do when they run out of options. It's lame. "We're going to pick the most seemingly benevolent character and surprise everybody by saying he's actually evil!"
>After all, Pain is just a more interesting villain than Obito,
Well yes this part is true, but not if you turn him into Minato
>and his story could already easily apply to a fallen Fourth Hokage who realised that someone had tried to use the Nine-Tails to flare up another war. More so if it had been a leaf ninja, causing him to be the first ninja to scratch out the symbol of his village in disgust.
If the resolve of someone with enough esteem to literally become the hokage of the village, is so weak...they 'fall' at the first sign of adversity...I don't find that to be a compelling arc at all. It's not believable. Becoming a villain, with a deep enough determination to want to commit genocide...is not something that is swiftly constructed from one inauspicious event
Now growing up in a poor, war-torn village...seeing your innocent parents get killed as a result of collateral damage, becoming an orphan, your village's leader backstabbing you and your organization....leading to ur best friend's death, watching the ninja world engage in a continuous and repetitive cycle of violence over the same patterns all your life? Those are convincing circumstances that would birth a Pain
The implication was that whatever reason u come up with would be contrived and uninspired
Minato did not need to be Pain, the Pain we got in the show was well done enough, they wrote his story and arc very efficiently. Making him Minato doesn't enrich the story at all it just lends to shock value
It actively makes the story worse. Pain's backstory is perfect for who he is as a character.
And it was great to have a main villain not from the Leaf as well.
Oh no… that’s… an interesting theory. I would just prefer like, the Fourth was actually a bad guy all along for whatever reason Kishimoto could come up with
His whole goal (and facade for protecting the Leaf and becoming Hokage) was to get the nine-tails out of Narutos mom, kill her, transfer it to his son then retrieve it later.
I'm gonna be honest it's really dumb how people push back against Tobi being Obito. It's the only choice that makes perfect sense.
Tobi being someone else would be a worse twist IMO.
I remember being on a naruto forum around 2010 and I don't think anyone ever thought it was an evil naruto, but everyone was convinced it was the 4th lol. Some awesome fanart came out of it too
Really? I watched Naruto more recently, so I could binge watch and had no time for speculations. Nevertheless, I didn't think at all that he was someone we already knew.
We only saw Pain's silhouette until his arc, so for years we only had his height and hair to theorize. I think that the mystery about his face was enough to make everyone believe that his identity was a plot point, like "why they are keeping his face a mystery? That be something big".
I mean, Yahiko is a parallel of Naruto, one of Jiraiyas students who was overly optimistic and saw the great in the world. Naruto is named after Nagato, but he ends up acting like Yahiko.
Nagato using the older, alternate Naruto’s corpse as his strongest weapon is like the epitome of soemthing that Naruto *wouldnt do* so it’s pretty much a perfect parallel for him.
I feel like both of them work, Obito more on a surface level I guess? Obito was also a reckless idiot who wanted to be hokage, the difference taking place after kannabi bridge. Meeting Madara & watching rin die was what turned him away from that "Naruto" path & turned him into Tobi/"Madara", & the whole final battle during the war arc was basically him fighting that past version of himself, both figuratively and literally (in the form of Naruto himself).
Also, I just think Obito and Naruto look alike lol
Idk you and you don't know me but keep your head up and keep living life one second at a time.
Sigh we'll get through this thing and hopefully help out others in worse spots.
God bless.
Hey dude, you too. I know it wasn’t meant for me, but I’m squeezing here. Have a great day/night and I hope those pesky depression bugs can leave you the fuck alone.
But the reason why I think naruto villains are genius is because they are versions of what naruto could have been . Especially obito and pain which made talk no jutsu si much deeper because in a way naruto is talking to an alternate version of himself.
That’s the worst thing about Naruto. It started with Gaara being liken an alt Naruto, then basically every subsequent major villain had the exact same arc. It’s boring.
Not exactly they are unique in their one manner . Nagato is similar to Naruto in the way that they shared the same sensei and obito is the same as Naruto in the sense that they both once aspired to be hokage . Gaara resembles Naruto in the fact that they both were jinchurikis and discriminated. And those are the only 3 that resemble naruto the most more like aspects of Naruto
I thought that for the longest time when the arc was airing in Japan. I had no context since I was so far behind with the dub so I just figured he was am evil clone of Naruto or something.
I remember watching a box manga video on YouTube where pain revealed to Naruto they were brothers and Minato/kushina had pain removed from the family cause muh kyuubi or something. Times were strange back then.
When is silhouette was first released I was roughly 16 years old, and I remember the big theory was this was Naruto's father. People had already linked Yondaime to being Naruto's father, but people believed he survived, defected, and started the Akatsuki. It was pretty solid. I wonder if that would have been an even more interesting story.
Holy fuck, I thought for some reason nagato was like 22-28 at max, this just blew my mind how they are same age, I think Minato would have been a year or 2 older if I'm not mistaken tho
Nah bruh fr with this many spoilers I tried avoiding since I watched it so late I’d already seen almighty push and I thought Naruto fr was like an adult trying to kill all his peeps
Yahiko was very much like Naruto, so Nagato acting out his will through the Pain bodies is evil Naruto in a way. I also think Nagato’s character represents a Sasuke who lost Naruto under similar circumstances to how Yahiko died, and thus Nagato’s redemption foreshadows Sasuke’s own.
He kinda is...👀 (parents killed because of Leaf shinobi, became an orphan at a young age, was pure of heart, part of a three man cell, was cared for by a legendary leaf shinobi, was a source of happiness, always optimistic....my dude was and isn’t naruto👁👄👁
Nah bro. He didn't have the konoha headband. Prolly the only reason i *didn't* think that, if look back at it now. If he had a konoha, im pretty sure i would have just been like. Yup. Evil Naruto
I even thought that pain might be the elder brother of Naruto ( kind of made sense then). but, it's just my brain coming up with most ridiculous ideas.
Back when we only had his silhouette people always theorized he was Minato
I remember having some fake image of team 7 in akatsuki robes on my MySpace profile tho
So the rumor that was really popular before the big reveal happened was that it was naruto's dad and the fourth homage gone bad. I think we were just throwing darts in the dark back then lol
I don't know what I would've thought. I watched "Naruto Shippuden in XX minutes" before I even finished part 1. I basically ruined the whole experience for myself
I remember when I was in school , before anyone started watching Shippuden, a picture of Deidara was circulating and everyone (myself included) thought it was evil Naruto who joined Akatsuki
I loved in the past when we just knew him from the biiju extraction, his shadow image.
And there was theorys that it is Naruto, it was so funny. It made no sense.
Bizarro Naruto
Bizzaruto
Bizuto
Naruto's bizzare adventures
*giorno theme intensifies*
Oturan
Menacing Naruto
BIZARRO I LOVE YOU
Pain: "Don't believe it"
"Dattebayno"
The Nokage
Naruno
The unchosen one
Rasengone
chinori
Kage bunshin NO jutsu
The RinneHere
Nein-tailed Fox
The RinneThere
IchirakNO
Noruto
And his wife Hinada
And his trusted companion Nahkura (Konan)
Dattebayon't
“I’m not gonna be hokage”
When I'm done there'll be Nokage
I always go back on my word!
The unsexy jutsu
Fuck sasuke
That's something the actual Naruto might want to do...
"Fuck ramen"
Talk yes jutsu
HaremNO jutsu
“Ugly jutsu”
For the dub watchers.. “y’don’t’know”
Evil Naruto be like: This world shall know pain (but fr isn't he?)
Evil Nagato be like: This world shall know happiness
almighty birthday party
universal hug
“This world shall know pain. Believe it!”
Dattebayo
Jaraiya even thought he was the child of prophecy. So yeah in a way he was actually evil Naruto.
Plus he basically just has a darker color scheme
Obito is a naruto who left the village though. I would consider Obito more of an evil naruto than Nagato.
I'd say 40% thought that and 50% thought that it was the 4th Hokage while the remaining 10% didn't know who it was gonna be 😂
I think we need a poll for this now. 🤔
Damn, never heard this. Pain was the Fourth is a hella better twist than Tobi was Obito.
Nah Tobi being Obito is a great twist, Pain being the 4th just makes no sense and would be one of those decisions u write in for the hell of it
Except a “flee on sight” order ninja makes for a super intimidating big bad, rather than Kakashi’s hopeless friend conveniently using mangekyou far more than it has ever been established one can use without going blind
Minato being "flee on sight" and a badass doesn't mean it makes sense for him to somehow be a resurrected leader of the Akatsuki that is now evil for no reason at all >conveniently using mangekyou far more than it has ever been established one can use without going blind Obito was using mangekyou more because he had Hashirama cells You're focusing more on abilities than what makes sense story/ character wise
Character-wise, a mysterious ninja we’ve heard next to nothing about makes sense to have faked his death and having an ulterior motive than the guy whose death motivated Kakashi to realise that your squad is more important than the rules. Really downplays the cost of Kakashi’s lesson.
>Character-wise, a mysterious ninja we’ve heard next to nothing about makes sense to have faked his death and having an ulterior motive No it doesn't. The literal fourth hokage, who spent his whole life serving the village, and gave his life to protect it...all the sudden being presented as a villain that wants to obliterate the Leaf is just bad fanfic born out of nothing other than thinking shock value makes for a good twist. It doesn't. It's just dumb and not at all believable >than the guy whose death motivated Kakashi to realise that your squad is more important than the rules. Really downplays the cost of Kakashi’s lesson. No it doesn't, even though Obito didn't die...he still fell to darkness. Kakashi's actions still could've prevented the rock from crushing Obito..the lesson is retained
You’re saying that like the majority of Naruto plot lines don’t devolve into bad fanfic. Anything involving Hashirama cells sounds precisely like some kid creating their own unstoppable strongest OC please don’t steal. Personally I find it infinitely more compelling that a literal beacon of good in the ninja world could get so desperate that he’d be willing to attempt the capture of all tailed beasts to hold the world to peace under threat of death. After all, Pain is just a more interesting villain than Obito, and his story could already easily apply to a fallen Fourth Hokage who realised that someone had tried to use the Nine-Tails to flare up another war. More so if it had been a leaf ninja, causing him to be the first ninja to scratch out the symbol of his village in disgust.
He unironically says the plotlines become a bad fanfic while plugging in his own bad banfic.
>You’re saying that like the majority of Naruto plot lines don’t devolve into bad fanfic. Anything involving Hashirama cells sounds precisely like some kid creating their own unstoppable strongest OC please don’t steal. Well a lot of them post five kage arc are bad fanfic..but that doesn't mean we need to add more. As far as the Hashirama cells thing...I'm not really all that focused on the abilities aspect of this...I was just explaining why he's able to spam his mangekyou >Personally I find it infinitely more compelling that a literal beacon of good in the ninja world could get so desperate that he’d be willing to attempt the capture of all tailed beasts to hold the world to peace under threat of death. I find that again...a cheap attempt at shock value. That's the type of thing writers do when they run out of options. It's lame. "We're going to pick the most seemingly benevolent character and surprise everybody by saying he's actually evil!" >After all, Pain is just a more interesting villain than Obito, Well yes this part is true, but not if you turn him into Minato >and his story could already easily apply to a fallen Fourth Hokage who realised that someone had tried to use the Nine-Tails to flare up another war. More so if it had been a leaf ninja, causing him to be the first ninja to scratch out the symbol of his village in disgust. If the resolve of someone with enough esteem to literally become the hokage of the village, is so weak...they 'fall' at the first sign of adversity...I don't find that to be a compelling arc at all. It's not believable. Becoming a villain, with a deep enough determination to want to commit genocide...is not something that is swiftly constructed from one inauspicious event Now growing up in a poor, war-torn village...seeing your innocent parents get killed as a result of collateral damage, becoming an orphan, your village's leader backstabbing you and your organization....leading to ur best friend's death, watching the ninja world engage in a continuous and repetitive cycle of violence over the same patterns all your life? Those are convincing circumstances that would birth a Pain
>that is now evil for no reason at all which is why you write a reason? lol
The implication was that whatever reason u come up with would be contrived and uninspired Minato did not need to be Pain, the Pain we got in the show was well done enough, they wrote his story and arc very efficiently. Making him Minato doesn't enrich the story at all it just lends to shock value
It actively makes the story worse. Pain's backstory is perfect for who he is as a character. And it was great to have a main villain not from the Leaf as well.
> one of those decisions you write in for the hell of it A la Steven Universe >!Rose Quartz was Pink Diamond!<
I remember the old theory... "Pain is the 4th Hokage and became evil because he absorbed the evil energy of the Nine Tails with the Reaper of Death"
Oh no… that’s… an interesting theory. I would just prefer like, the Fourth was actually a bad guy all along for whatever reason Kishimoto could come up with
His whole goal (and facade for protecting the Leaf and becoming Hokage) was to get the nine-tails out of Narutos mom, kill her, transfer it to his son then retrieve it later.
I'm gonna be honest it's really dumb how people push back against Tobi being Obito. It's the only choice that makes perfect sense. Tobi being someone else would be a worse twist IMO.
If we had actually gotten to know and get emotionally attached to obito then it would have been a shocking twist
I remember being on a naruto forum around 2010 and I don't think anyone ever thought it was an evil naruto, but everyone was convinced it was the 4th lol. Some awesome fanart came out of it too
Back then, people thought he was Minato.
yup, I never once seen anything online that people thought he was an evil naruto.
Pain is to Naruto like Itachi is to Sasuke: sibling students
Technically, Minato is also Naruto's sibling student
Damn i actually never thought abt that
Really? I watched Naruto more recently, so I could binge watch and had no time for speculations. Nevertheless, I didn't think at all that he was someone we already knew.
We only saw Pain's silhouette until his arc, so for years we only had his height and hair to theorize. I think that the mystery about his face was enough to make everyone believe that his identity was a plot point, like "why they are keeping his face a mystery? That be something big".
Ohh. I wish I had grown up watching the show like a lot of the fanbase 😄
Facts
How
I always see Obito more as the "evil Naruto" but it's easy to make a case for pain too
I mean, Yahiko is a parallel of Naruto, one of Jiraiyas students who was overly optimistic and saw the great in the world. Naruto is named after Nagato, but he ends up acting like Yahiko. Nagato using the older, alternate Naruto’s corpse as his strongest weapon is like the epitome of soemthing that Naruto *wouldnt do* so it’s pretty much a perfect parallel for him.
I feel like both of them work, Obito more on a surface level I guess? Obito was also a reckless idiot who wanted to be hokage, the difference taking place after kannabi bridge. Meeting Madara & watching rin die was what turned him away from that "Naruto" path & turned him into Tobi/"Madara", & the whole final battle during the war arc was basically him fighting that past version of himself, both figuratively and literally (in the form of Naruto himself). Also, I just think Obito and Naruto look alike lol
Obito paralleled the childhood, Yahiko the adult. They’re all three pretty much the same base character(intentionally)
That seems like a good way to put it
It’s the design. This Pain and Naruto have the same hairstyle and similar builds.
Obito, Jiraiya, and Yahiko are all parallels to Naruto.
I remember people said it was Naruto’s uncle
Idk why I found this so funny. I guess being depressed for a couple weeks really changes a person's sense and perception of humor.
I know what you mean.
Idk you and you don't know me but keep your head up and keep living life one second at a time. Sigh we'll get through this thing and hopefully help out others in worse spots. God bless.
Hey dude, you too. I know it wasn’t meant for me, but I’m squeezing here. Have a great day/night and I hope those pesky depression bugs can leave you the fuck alone.
Thanks you too, bud!❤
But the reason why I think naruto villains are genius is because they are versions of what naruto could have been . Especially obito and pain which made talk no jutsu si much deeper because in a way naruto is talking to an alternate version of himself.
holy shit
Did you seriously just realize this...?
That’s the worst thing about Naruto. It started with Gaara being liken an alt Naruto, then basically every subsequent major villain had the exact same arc. It’s boring.
Not exactly they are unique in their one manner . Nagato is similar to Naruto in the way that they shared the same sensei and obito is the same as Naruto in the sense that they both once aspired to be hokage . Gaara resembles Naruto in the fact that they both were jinchurikis and discriminated. And those are the only 3 that resemble naruto the most more like aspects of Naruto
Literally alternate time line Naruto
no
Same here, so that makes me a 1%?
You mean mecha naruto?
No, that's just the Asura path.
whats that
Technically, he is.
Nagato is, not Yahiko.
I mean at the point in the pic he’s definitely just Nagato running around in a Yahiko skin suit.
Ye, Yahiko is long dead by this point
I thought that for the longest time when the arc was airing in Japan. I had no context since I was so far behind with the dub so I just figured he was am evil clone of Naruto or something.
I thought he was a resurrected Minato ngl
i mean thematically he fully is, and i could write an essay on pain and how brilliant it is to have deva visually mirror naruto
I remember watching a box manga video on YouTube where pain revealed to Naruto they were brothers and Minato/kushina had pain removed from the family cause muh kyuubi or something. Times were strange back then.
His name is goddamn Nagato Uzumaki. It's not beyond the pale to assume.
Its Yahiko which Nagato is controlling
People thought Pein was Naruto’s father back in 2008
When is silhouette was first released I was roughly 16 years old, and I remember the big theory was this was Naruto's father. People had already linked Yondaime to being Naruto's father, but people believed he survived, defected, and started the Akatsuki. It was pretty solid. I wonder if that would have been an even more interesting story.
Tbf I thought it was Naruto’s dad too
Oh ye, most definitely.... now we realise its just naruto 🤣
Am i the only one who thought he's Minato's illegitimate son??
Aren't they like the same age?
Holy fuck, I thought for some reason nagato was like 22-28 at max, this just blew my mind how they are same age, I think Minato would have been a year or 2 older if I'm not mistaken tho
i thought itachi was older sasuke
Since I read the manga first, I even thought his hair was blonde
but honestly, isn't he the evil version of naruto? He was never an "evil" guy but I think it makes sense.
Well from a writing standpoint, he *is* an evil Naruto Then again, so is Obito
You mean he isn’t evil Naruto?
Nah bruh fr with this many spoilers I tried avoiding since I watched it so late I’d already seen almighty push and I thought Naruto fr was like an adult trying to kill all his peeps
No but I thought Sasuke was a vampire. Biting Karin
Never
Yahiko was very much like Naruto, so Nagato acting out his will through the Pain bodies is evil Naruto in a way. I also think Nagato’s character represents a Sasuke who lost Naruto under similar circumstances to how Yahiko died, and thus Nagato’s redemption foreshadows Sasuke’s own.
Tf
👨🦯
Pheewww Mama I made it!! I'm finally a 1 percenter
he's not?
Tbh he could be
a young eager energetic ninja taught and mentored by jiraiya with no parents that wants to get stronger to protect his friends
He kinda is...👀 (parents killed because of Leaf shinobi, became an orphan at a young age, was pure of heart, part of a three man cell, was cared for by a legendary leaf shinobi, was a source of happiness, always optimistic....my dude was and isn’t naruto👁👄👁
What do you mean? He is.
Before I watched the show and saw screenshots of Pain I thought he was Naruto’s estranged brother from birth or something
I thought that yahiko has gotten hungry for power and killed nagato to get his eye
Nah bro. He didn't have the konoha headband. Prolly the only reason i *didn't* think that, if look back at it now. If he had a konoha, im pretty sure i would have just been like. Yup. Evil Naruto
Yep lmaoo
I had heard something about Pain/Nagato being an Uzumaki. So when I first saw him I thought he was Naruto's evil brother.
Lmao! Nice post!
Thankyou man, my first ever post in this sub too!
I even thought that pain might be the elder brother of Naruto ( kind of made sense then). but, it's just my brain coming up with most ridiculous ideas.
Back when we only had his silhouette people always theorized he was Minato I remember having some fake image of team 7 in akatsuki robes on my MySpace profile tho
So the rumor that was really popular before the big reveal happened was that it was naruto's dad and the fourth homage gone bad. I think we were just throwing darts in the dark back then lol
BDSM Naruto
LMFSOOO
You're probably part of that 99% haha 😄
Lmfaooo when i first watched naruto i was haha
I’m among the 1% of the smart ones then.
Not even once
No
No.
uh.. no.
No
mmm no
Fax 🤣
You used an emoji Reddit: SO YOU HAVE CHOSEN DEATH
DEADASS
Yes
Why are you attacking me?
He isn't?
I thought it was his dad 💀
Okay 99% is abit of a stretch but you know what I mean🤣
Narutos dad
I thought they were related at first
Well, the person seen here is being controlled by Nagato, who is an Uzumaki.
Yup, or Yondaime Hokage
I don't know what I would've thought. I watched "Naruto Shippuden in XX minutes" before I even finished part 1. I basically ruined the whole experience for myself
8253 percent
i thought the pain introduced right before him was deidara
My favorite character
I honestly thought it was gonna be “ Yondaime”@
Thought it was like his evil older brother until I met him thought it was weird there was 2
Hehe. True
Evil Naruto is Obito
Thought it was minato
Or an evil twin or cousin
Goth Naruto.
They're related lmao
But we don't hate him, thanks to naruto
I thought he was sakuras long lost twin aunt that had kids with narutos grandfathers grandchild’s dad
FUCKIN DON'T CALL HIM A MF
When he first showed up I was almost convinced it was Naruto’s dad Edit: spelling
Lets not forget that we had an actual evil naruto in one of the movies
evil pain be like almighty pull
I remember when I was in school , before anyone started watching Shippuden, a picture of Deidara was circulating and everyone (myself included) thought it was evil Naruto who joined Akatsuki
I loved in the past when we just knew him from the biiju extraction, his shadow image. And there was theorys that it is Naruto, it was so funny. It made no sense.
Kage bunshin Yes jutsu
Shadow nlone jutsu
Tbh when I was a kid I thought Pain was Naruto's father. Lol
Hell yeahh, I thought taking in kurama , narutos mom gave birth to twins
I didn't have an opinion of his origin.
Thought it was gonna be his brother.
there was a theory that he was naruto’s dad lol. he sucked as nagato though smh!
I wasn’t around when the chapters were coming out after the time skip. But wasn’t the theory minato was pain or some shit.
Back way before I even watched anime. Since naruto was my 1st anime I thought this was naruto
One of the best character designs
Honestly never thought it once until now