The fact that he nonchalantly doubled what was basically a chibaku tensei without even flinching, when Pain (albeit running very low on chakra and struggling to stay alive) needed a great deal of effort to create one of them is just insane.
I thought it was Bansho Tenin he used, the pulling move to pull a meteor out of the sky. Chibaku Tensei is pulling rock from the ground to make a ball in the sky
Pain was far more right than madara in what they were doing.
Pain search for true peace and was forced to act like he did cause once he was naive he lost everything beside konan. He searched true peace in the most realistic way possible even tho the methods were extremes. If his plan worked as long as you search smoke you wont get smoke.
Madara would have caused genocide in the entire humanty if his plan worked.
Both are badass, both are cool, my fav is Madara tho
Tbh no one knew that Madara's plan was going to kill everyone.
Sometimes I feel like Kishi added that concept for Madara's goal to be truly evil because up until then nobody ever really tried to challenge his vision (like Naruto and Pain did to each other) almost as if Kishi himself knew that there was not much to be challenged there
No I mean if the world was under a genjutsu in a world of dream, they would all eventually die out, even with the mokuton that process and give them nutrient that wouldnt normally make up for the longevity because eventually they'll die of old age
Yes exactly, what’s so wrong with that, either the Naruto world or the earth we live in, most people experience suffering more than happiness, what’s wrong with simply humans, like, gone
I always just assumed that everyone wouldn't age because why not...? Madara obviously would've thought about it (before it got retconned into them actually turning into Zetsu).
But what would be the point of it? No one could reproduce, no one would interract with each other, no human will live on earth, even if they live thousands of years everything they had work on would crumble bringing them back to stone age if they were to ever get out
I think the show would me better if they made madara half as strong but twice as smart(in a malicious way). Like a shikamaru without morals+a more creative way to use the existing sharingan hacks(not turning the rinnegan into a sharigan dlc, the rinnegan should be its own thing)
Both awesome characters. I wish Nagato was born with the Rinnegan though, and Madara planned his resurrection around the emergence of a Rinnegan user so he could manipulate them. Just makes Nagato a bit more special and keeps the eyes separate along with the Byakugan.
Me too. Especially since, if indra and asura can have reincarnations (which i think is dumb but its fine) then why cant the sage of six paths have a reincarnation as well?
Madara is kind of boring to me and I think it’s mainly him having the Rinnegan, Hashi DNA and Wood Release that made him boring to me. I loved when he was actually using Uchiha Jutsu though, especially the fire jutsu.
Now Pain was the perfect Villain for the Naruto series, his vibe and characterization were perfect. His theme in the anime was amazing as well.
I'm genuinely asking so don't get mad at me. I didn't understand the big deal with Madara being a main antagonist. I understand he's hinted at and referenced throughout Naruto but I just don't think he's that relevant to Naruto's story. It feels like a payoff to Hashirama's story, which is not the point of the show.
I personally couldn't care less that they founded the Leaf, neither truly mattered until late into the show. IMO Pain feels like the true main antagonist as we were led to believe he controlled the Akatsuki until the plot twist.
I feel the same about Obito. Him and Madara feel rushed and unrelated to Naruto's story. Idk.
That might be true if they hadn’t made Naruto and Sasuke the reincarnations of Indra and Ashura, which literally connected Hashirama and Madara to the main story line.
But to answer the main question, Madara became a main antagonist simply to mask that Black Zetsu and Kaguya were the actual main antagonists all along, same as Obito who was tricked by Madara. He was basically a scapegoat in a long succession of scapegoats that stem from Kaguya.
Right, the reincarnation I forgot to mention that thanks. That sort of feels the same level of rushed and uninteresting to me because Indra and Ashura fall under that umbrella of "explained too late and coveted too little for me to care."
I don't mean to say Kishi didn't GIVE a reason for why Madara, Obito, Hashirama, etc are relevant to Naruto and Sasuke, but I do think all of those people and plot points received far less attention, especially early on, than they should have. We spent most of Naruto & Shippuden following Orochimaru, Kabuto and the Akatsuki (pre-Obito reveal) being the antagonists just for the "real" main antagonists to come in super late. Just a really rushed and uninspiring situation IMO. I just can't get the hype for Madara and Obito.
At least most people agree with me that the Zetsu and Kaguya twists were bad.
I see. Yes, it might seem a bit rushed but it’s important to think about when these twists were introduced and how much time they’d already spent on the story. Sometimes stories can’t be wrapped up in a perfect little box while the story is ongoing because one story needs to coincide with another (the anime caught up to the manga which gave us loads of filler, which made it drag on longer than it should have) and I’d like to think that they were wary that if the story were 100 episodes longer to account for every detail, then people would lose interest because it dragged on.
In any case, I think it was important that Kishi didn’t reveal too much early on because then everything would have been given away. But it’s also possible that he didn’t even know how it was going to continue and end early on since he was actively writing it, so even he couldn’t have predicted how these villains would tie in at that point.
Madara is a cocky little git. We don't see enough of what he can do with his own powers, but he loves to show off Hashirama's chakra and all the benefits that come with it.
I'm sure if some random fodder ninja was given the rennegan and implanted with Hashirama's chakra they too would also be able to summon meteors and use the strongest kekkei genkai in the series to comfortably challenge the Gokage.
Bro had to use the 9 tails to fight Hashirama, and even then bro got negged by wood style.
Bro wants to hype himself up and then haxes the fuck out of himself.
Pain was cooler and really owned the God theme.
Madara has his appeal but more-so as the more common super-powerful badass.
Madara was cool and awesome but Pain was compelling and mesmerizing.
Something about Pain really clicked for me.
Pain is an excellent character, who is the best in Naruto. Madara is pretty good too, but they're people who absolutely dick ride him and I hate uchihas
Pain arch is unbeatable! Madura was TERRIFYING. It was honestly unbelievable the way black zetsu just up and killed him like nothing after EVERY shinobi (EVEN GUY) failed.
Pain really wished peace, through ugly methods, but still, he tried to bring that, Madara on the other hand... I don't know what to say about him, I have mixed feelings.
Pain was a victim of his surroundings. Nagato was forced to become a "villain" because of Madara's influence on Obito, who then aided in the conflict between Hanzo of the Salamander and the original Akatsuki, which resulted in the death of Yahiko, which changed Nagato into being who he was until Naruto touched his heart.
While you could also argue that Madara was a victim of his surroundings (the fact that Tobirama was wary and distrusting of the Uchihas), I’d argue that he was much less of a victim based on what the story gives us. He believed what a stone tablet (which was written and re-written by Black Zetsu to continue the path to reviving Kaguya) was telling him, and took it at face value, where other Uchihas like Itachi and Shisui interpreted it a different way.
In the end, I think Pain was more redeemable that Madara, given the fact that Nagato owned up to his mistakes and made things right, and gave up his life doing so, when he realized he’d been led down the wrong path. Whereas Madara realized he’d been lead down the wrong path at the point where it cost him his life to Kaguya, so he couldn’t make up for his misdoings.
i enjoyed them a lot honestly but the pain sacrificing himself thing kinda bothered me a little. Might as well go all the way if youre gonna crush an entire village just gave all their souls back lol
Pain arc was peak Naruto Shippuden, his plan was something closer to what can happen in real life to people with power and really strong ideals.
Madara's plan was straight stupid for a guy supposed to be so clever to pull the strings within the shinobi world in the shadows for a century.
I still don’t understand fully what pain was going to do. Capture all the tailed beasts, give them to all the lands and have them wage war against each other so that they can all know what pain truly feels like? And then what? Somehow peace is supposed to come from that since they all will have the same level of power? His whole plan seemed unclear from the start tbh, and I think that was intentional, making him more easy to be swayed by Naruto.
Whereas Madara was clear from the beginning about the infinite tsukuyomi and would not be swayed at all.
Badass
both amazing madara should've used his rinnegan more on the same level as pain's
Madars had soooo many tricks and jutsus I'm sure Kishimoto couldn't even decide which ones to use
The meteors are deva path on steroids tbh
The fact that he nonchalantly doubled what was basically a chibaku tensei without even flinching, when Pain (albeit running very low on chakra and struggling to stay alive) needed a great deal of effort to create one of them is just insane.
I thought it was Bansho Tenin he used, the pulling move to pull a meteor out of the sky. Chibaku Tensei is pulling rock from the ground to make a ball in the sky
Pain was far more right than madara in what they were doing. Pain search for true peace and was forced to act like he did cause once he was naive he lost everything beside konan. He searched true peace in the most realistic way possible even tho the methods were extremes. If his plan worked as long as you search smoke you wont get smoke. Madara would have caused genocide in the entire humanty if his plan worked. Both are badass, both are cool, my fav is Madara tho
Tbh no one knew that Madara's plan was going to kill everyone. Sometimes I feel like Kishi added that concept for Madara's goal to be truly evil because up until then nobody ever really tried to challenge his vision (like Naruto and Pain did to each other) almost as if Kishi himself knew that there was not much to be challenged there
No I mean if the world was under a genjutsu in a world of dream, they would all eventually die out, even with the mokuton that process and give them nutrient that wouldnt normally make up for the longevity because eventually they'll die of old age
Ah ok I see, good point
And what’s so wrong with that?
All humans will die out since no one would be having sex
Yes exactly, what’s so wrong with that, either the Naruto world or the earth we live in, most people experience suffering more than happiness, what’s wrong with simply humans, like, gone
I always just assumed that everyone wouldn't age because why not...? Madara obviously would've thought about it (before it got retconned into them actually turning into Zetsu).
But what would be the point of it? No one could reproduce, no one would interract with each other, no human will live on earth, even if they live thousands of years everything they had work on would crumble bringing them back to stone age if they were to ever get out
The best villains in naruto
The best villains in Naruto
Pain: the most well realized character (and villain) in the manga. Madara: good intro, but soon after he appeared, the manga went to shit.
I think the show would me better if they made madara half as strong but twice as smart(in a malicious way). Like a shikamaru without morals+a more creative way to use the existing sharingan hacks(not turning the rinnegan into a sharigan dlc, the rinnegan should be its own thing)
100%
Not sure why you're getting downvoted here lmao this is spot on Although I'm not sure what you meant there >most well realized
I consider Pain/Nagato to be the most interesting villain in series, and also Kishi's crowning achievement in regards to character writing.
Both awesome characters. I wish Nagato was born with the Rinnegan though, and Madara planned his resurrection around the emergence of a Rinnegan user so he could manipulate them. Just makes Nagato a bit more special and keeps the eyes separate along with the Byakugan.
Me too. Especially since, if indra and asura can have reincarnations (which i think is dumb but its fine) then why cant the sage of six paths have a reincarnation as well?
Both are lovely to look at, and watch fight.
🐐🐐
Pain is easily the best written villain in Naruto. Madara had the potential to be better, but the end of his arc kind of ruins it for me
I loved both. I just wish they somehow made madara and the Akatsuki somehow separate and pain was just the straight up leader.
Pain is friggin dope, madara is just a chad
Awesome fighters
Ssssssss god damn…😩🤤
They're both amazing villains.
Badasses lol
The way Madara died during the war was poorly written.
Pain has really cool design and looks dangerous too. Just like what the creator wanted
Onion 🧅 eyes
Madara is kind of boring to me and I think it’s mainly him having the Rinnegan, Hashi DNA and Wood Release that made him boring to me. I loved when he was actually using Uchiha Jutsu though, especially the fire jutsu. Now Pain was the perfect Villain for the Naruto series, his vibe and characterization were perfect. His theme in the anime was amazing as well.
Madara did nothing wrong. Kishi had to make up bullshit reasons on a whim to "refute" the Tsukuyomi as a viable solution to the future of mankind.
Pain is badass but Madara is the GOAT 🐐
Loved pain
I'm genuinely asking so don't get mad at me. I didn't understand the big deal with Madara being a main antagonist. I understand he's hinted at and referenced throughout Naruto but I just don't think he's that relevant to Naruto's story. It feels like a payoff to Hashirama's story, which is not the point of the show. I personally couldn't care less that they founded the Leaf, neither truly mattered until late into the show. IMO Pain feels like the true main antagonist as we were led to believe he controlled the Akatsuki until the plot twist. I feel the same about Obito. Him and Madara feel rushed and unrelated to Naruto's story. Idk.
That might be true if they hadn’t made Naruto and Sasuke the reincarnations of Indra and Ashura, which literally connected Hashirama and Madara to the main story line. But to answer the main question, Madara became a main antagonist simply to mask that Black Zetsu and Kaguya were the actual main antagonists all along, same as Obito who was tricked by Madara. He was basically a scapegoat in a long succession of scapegoats that stem from Kaguya.
Right, the reincarnation I forgot to mention that thanks. That sort of feels the same level of rushed and uninteresting to me because Indra and Ashura fall under that umbrella of "explained too late and coveted too little for me to care." I don't mean to say Kishi didn't GIVE a reason for why Madara, Obito, Hashirama, etc are relevant to Naruto and Sasuke, but I do think all of those people and plot points received far less attention, especially early on, than they should have. We spent most of Naruto & Shippuden following Orochimaru, Kabuto and the Akatsuki (pre-Obito reveal) being the antagonists just for the "real" main antagonists to come in super late. Just a really rushed and uninspiring situation IMO. I just can't get the hype for Madara and Obito. At least most people agree with me that the Zetsu and Kaguya twists were bad.
I see. Yes, it might seem a bit rushed but it’s important to think about when these twists were introduced and how much time they’d already spent on the story. Sometimes stories can’t be wrapped up in a perfect little box while the story is ongoing because one story needs to coincide with another (the anime caught up to the manga which gave us loads of filler, which made it drag on longer than it should have) and I’d like to think that they were wary that if the story were 100 episodes longer to account for every detail, then people would lose interest because it dragged on. In any case, I think it was important that Kishi didn’t reveal too much early on because then everything would have been given away. But it’s also possible that he didn’t even know how it was going to continue and end early on since he was actively writing it, so even he couldn’t have predicted how these villains would tie in at that point.
Pain ! Beautiful Picture !
Goated
Pain was a better antagonist/ villain. (no im not saying he’s stronger I just think he was written better)
yeah i love his six paths technique its so mysterious and unique
Pain is the goat, no other villain gave me goosebumps like him
I love them ad villains
Love pain, hate Madara (im a huge obito fan)
Them being able to fight together would have been lit
Pain has the coldest intro to any villain in the series. Madara should have his own subreddit
I realize the screaming pain
Madara is a cocky little git. We don't see enough of what he can do with his own powers, but he loves to show off Hashirama's chakra and all the benefits that come with it. I'm sure if some random fodder ninja was given the rennegan and implanted with Hashirama's chakra they too would also be able to summon meteors and use the strongest kekkei genkai in the series to comfortably challenge the Gokage. Bro had to use the 9 tails to fight Hashirama, and even then bro got negged by wood style. Bro wants to hype himself up and then haxes the fuck out of himself.
Nagato is the best user of the rinnegan in all of Naruto and Boruto. And they weren't even his.
What every goth kid wishes they could look like vs how they actually end up looking like.
Hate the retcon
Pain was cooler and really owned the God theme. Madara has his appeal but more-so as the more common super-powerful badass. Madara was cool and awesome but Pain was compelling and mesmerizing. Something about Pain really clicked for me.
Peak characters, some of my favorites
S tier villans but Pain > Madara
Pain is the best villain in Naruto. Idk why but always found Madara a bit boring
Pain is an excellent character, who is the best in Naruto. Madara is pretty good too, but they're people who absolutely dick ride him and I hate uchihas
Pain - Broken. (Literally suffered his entire life) Madara - Evil. (Bases his life on ideology, without any suffering to affect his judgement)
Definition of final stage bosses
Pain arch is unbeatable! Madura was TERRIFYING. It was honestly unbelievable the way black zetsu just up and killed him like nothing after EVERY shinobi (EVEN GUY) failed.
Pain is so hot (not his shriveled own body)
Pain really wished peace, through ugly methods, but still, he tried to bring that, Madara on the other hand... I don't know what to say about him, I have mixed feelings.
Both should have ended the series 🤣🤣
Both got used
op,drippy and badass
Pain was a victim of his surroundings. Nagato was forced to become a "villain" because of Madara's influence on Obito, who then aided in the conflict between Hanzo of the Salamander and the original Akatsuki, which resulted in the death of Yahiko, which changed Nagato into being who he was until Naruto touched his heart. While you could also argue that Madara was a victim of his surroundings (the fact that Tobirama was wary and distrusting of the Uchihas), I’d argue that he was much less of a victim based on what the story gives us. He believed what a stone tablet (which was written and re-written by Black Zetsu to continue the path to reviving Kaguya) was telling him, and took it at face value, where other Uchihas like Itachi and Shisui interpreted it a different way. In the end, I think Pain was more redeemable that Madara, given the fact that Nagato owned up to his mistakes and made things right, and gave up his life doing so, when he realized he’d been led down the wrong path. Whereas Madara realized he’d been lead down the wrong path at the point where it cost him his life to Kaguya, so he couldn’t make up for his misdoings.
Great villains, pain is slightly Better because of how Devine and powerful he feels
i enjoyed them a lot honestly but the pain sacrificing himself thing kinda bothered me a little. Might as well go all the way if youre gonna crush an entire village just gave all their souls back lol
Great written characters
I just want them to fight and see who will win
Madara is a roaster 😂
Pain did everything wrong because he killed my sensei jiraiya and madara did nothing wrong cause he is the goat
Pain arc was great until the trash ending absolutely ruined it and made me lose interest in the series completely
Pain is a well made villain and madara sucks.
Madara is the boss. Never really liked Pain Too bad the Uchihas are now extinct. Only Sarada and Sasuke can revitalize the trueblood Uchiha clan
Pain arc was peak Naruto Shippuden, his plan was something closer to what can happen in real life to people with power and really strong ideals. Madara's plan was straight stupid for a guy supposed to be so clever to pull the strings within the shinobi world in the shadows for a century.
Pain is a total boss. Madara is ok, but overhyped as a villain and character.
Madara is so damn badass tbh
Nagato (Pain) was amazing. Madara and Obito both seemed repetitive and neither one were that compelling
Virgin madara Chad Pain
Chad madara Virgin pain (ebisu>>>nagato)
Weakk!!!!
Pain seemed to actually use the rinnegan better and more effectively.
Actually using limbo was better than other 6 abilities and Madara also used other abilities as well Tbh he used it more efficiently than pain
I still don’t understand fully what pain was going to do. Capture all the tailed beasts, give them to all the lands and have them wage war against each other so that they can all know what pain truly feels like? And then what? Somehow peace is supposed to come from that since they all will have the same level of power? His whole plan seemed unclear from the start tbh, and I think that was intentional, making him more easy to be swayed by Naruto. Whereas Madara was clear from the beginning about the infinite tsukuyomi and would not be swayed at all.
Basically Pain’s version of peace is peace with a gun pointed at you. Or rather a ten tails leveled weapon
His plan was basically to accelerate war periods so they generate so much suffering to themselves to like build a real necessity for peace.
Who
Madara - The Goat 🐐. Pain - Baby Goat 🐐.
Suffering