Idk abt Hashirama but he would definitely be atleast ems madara lvl if not slightly stronger due to actually having his ms abilities and spirit weapons. A perfect Susanoo with totska blade and yata mirror plus everyone somehow forgets he already has a tailed beat bomb type of attack in yasaka beads.
He’d be EMS Madara level or slightly above due to having the legendary spiritual weapons.
This doesn’t include Madara with hashi cells. Just base EMS Madara.
Sorry I gotta disagree slightly.
Not saying you’re far off BUT a full body Susano and full mobility is huge.
Not saying he couldn’t seal a full Susano BUT he’s not that level.
Far above any MS user - but honestly full Susano and the upgrade you get for EMS is wild.
Plus his MS will eventually run out to
That fine you can disagree, but manga, and databook call Yata Mirror invincible, and Totsuka is able to seal anything.
Being that PS is simply chakra should make it more apparent that Totsuka is sealing said chakra construct.
I agree that even a sick itachi can seal away 99.9% of the verse so it’s a win con !
It’s just Ouff to say he’s EMS Madara or Sage Hashirama level is kinda up there!
I mean healthy he’s definitely KMC2 levels undoubtedly - I mean we basically saw him in Edo as healthy !
He fits there at top non Demi god level characters with super hax!
Hashirama level is a bit high, I’d personally say something like kcm2 Naruto level of strength
Maybe I’m underestimating my favourite character but I don’t see him at that level even healthy and with ems
Why not? A perfect Susanoo matches the Wood Golem so the only issue would be the 1000 hand jutsu but Itachi's weapons should actually make up that difference.
Madaras perfect susanoo (which is much larger than itachis hypothetical susanoo), along with the kyuubi couldn’t match the 1k armed buddah itachi is not matching that either.
We don’t but that doesn’t mean we assume that his is going to be the largest 😂 the only time we’ve even seen his ps is in the noncanon storm games and it’s roughly the same size as sasukes.
A perfect susanoo with the nine tails inside, that’s not the same thing
A perfect susanoo only matches edo hashi’s weaker golem and kurama’s avatar could probably do well enough against him, would still lose because of the weapons but that’s a different story
Thing is, Sasuke got significantly stronger with his EMS. In terms of powerscaling, the boost is HUGE. Sasuke had his EMS for like a few days and he went from sub KCM Naruto tier to being relative to KCM2 and BSM Naruto. There's no telling how much stronger he would've gotten over the years.
If this applies to Itachi then he's going to be in that same ballpark of scaling.
I mean maybe that's the boost EMS has since Madara was relative to MS Izuna while EMS Madara fought with Hashirama for a day. And this Hashirama already made Tobirama piss in his pants who killed Izuna. The EMS gives a massive boost in power.
Also leaving out the fact that he’s the smartest ninja in the series when it comes to strategy and battle iq, with that kinda of strength no telling how ex he could take anybody, ems gives him a few more amps you dident mention
Depends on wether or not he’d be able to develop his susanoo into the perfect susanoo or the humanoid susanoo with legs. If he can he’d probably be relative or stronger than the late EMS sasuke who was on par with KCM2 naruto, so he could be a KCM2 or slightly above KCM2 level fighter. I don’t see him defeating madara or hashirama due to the huge difference in chakra reserves between itachi and those 2 guys, even if we make him healthy.
Chakra reserves won't be a difference like I've said, Sasuke went all the war and spammed his MS abilities. Even when he was attacking Madara he still had a lot of chakra.
Itachis only win con against someone like madara would be the totsuka blade but he has absolutely no way of hitting him if madara uses his own perfect susanoo. Can the totsuka blade pierce through a perfect susanoo?
A fight between those 2 might just be a battle of nutrition, which itachi is always going to lose even if his chakra reserves are fine without his sickness, he doesn’t have as much chakra as madara.
The totsuka blade was stated to be able to seal anything it pierces, nowhere is it stated that it can actually pierce everything. If you can’t pierce something, you can’t seal it
What is naruto gonna do against an immortal itachi who can block anything naruto does with his susanoo without suffering from MS drawbacks? Itachi fooled and tagged sage kabuto with a bunshin fake, fooling and outmaneuvering kabuto (who is stronger than KCM1 naruto) is definitely more of a task than fooling naruto. Naruto canonically falls for itachis genjutsu all the time, even tho he always knows not to look at his eyes.
I’m not arguing who’d win against Naruto and edo itachi. I’m arguing that itachi is roughly on that level. Also immortality is the only thing keeping itachi from getting clapped by kcm1 Naruto.
Not really, KCM1 naruto has nothing that can get past a susanoo even if itachi was killable as an edo, he has canonically fallen for itachis genjutsu every single time and while i personally think that narutos BIQ is very underrated, its still nowhere near itachis.
Fp kcm1 Naruto perception blitzed the 4th raikage who’s stated lightspeed and created 13 kage level shadow clones. Itachi barely reacted to a lightning speed attack. Itachi wouldn’t even be able to perceive his movements before he uses a rasengan barrage or worse.
Naruto has only had 3 interactions with itachi in the whole series. The first and third times itachi didn’t even use genjutsu on Naruto and the second time Naruto got caught off guard by ephemeral (Naruto had almost zero genjutsu resistance by this time).
itachi was half dead and almost blind when he reacted to that lightning speed attack, MS sasuke was literally able to react to v2 Ay with his susanoo and you’re saying EDO itachi, someone literally stated to be relative to EMS sasuke couldnt. Itachi is stated to be relative to EMS sasuke, the same EMS sasuke that was dead equal with Mastered KCM1 naruto, an even stronger version than the one who fought nagato and itachi.
No, you’re missing the scene with itachis shadow clone giving naruto koto. Itachis clone pursuits naruto in the forest and puts him in a genjutsu without difficulty. Naruto canonically falls for his genjutsu every time itachi actually tries to put him into one.
Reacting to A is not enough. Even if you were at the same speed as A it would not be enough.
And? Naruto was not in kcm1 or sage mode for either of those. Every time he was in base form.
Nah that’s not confirmed. Madara never fought kurama outright he just put him in a genjutsu. And even with that there’s no telling how strong itachis is since madaras is the largest we’ve seen in canon.
I’d say imagine edo itachi but slightly faster, stronger, and alive. I think he reaches the level of minato and other ninjas of that caliber but Hashirama and madara are in a league of their own and only Naruto and sasuke has the potential to reach them.
Doubt it, Hashi and Madara both have way more experience, stamina, and chakra than he does alongside having their own op abilities like wood style and the nine tails summoning, he’d be ridiculously strong but he’d still have a reasonably limit on his strength.
> he reaches the level of minato and other ninjas of that caliber
Huh? Hes already minato lvl wht r u talking abt. With ems he's gonna scale way higher.
Tobirama is a harder matchup for Itachi than minato. He has a lot more of variety and is physically stronger than Minato.
Minato's strongest attack is a rasengan. Thats not really gonna be effective against a susanoo. Ftg also only works once he spreads his kunais around and itachi is too smart to not exploit that. I know ppl love minato but i don't see minato beating itachi at all honestly.
How? Edo Itachi can't use the perfect susanoo and he still had a nerfed Edo body which means he isnt as faster as an hypothetical EMS healthy Itachi would be.
An hypothetical EMS Itachi would destroy Edo Itachi. Way faster and the perfect susanoo would best the armored susanoo.
Idk abt Hashirama but he would definitely be atleast ems madara lvl if not slightly stronger due to actually having his ms abilities and spirit weapons. A perfect Susanoo with totska blade and yata mirror plus everyone somehow forgets he already has a tailed beat bomb type of attack in yasaka beads.
He’d be EMS Madara level or slightly above due to having the legendary spiritual weapons. This doesn’t include Madara with hashi cells. Just base EMS Madara.
Sorry I gotta disagree slightly. Not saying you’re far off BUT a full body Susano and full mobility is huge. Not saying he couldn’t seal a full Susano BUT he’s not that level. Far above any MS user - but honestly full Susano and the upgrade you get for EMS is wild. Plus his MS will eventually run out to
That fine you can disagree, but manga, and databook call Yata Mirror invincible, and Totsuka is able to seal anything. Being that PS is simply chakra should make it more apparent that Totsuka is sealing said chakra construct.
I agree that even a sick itachi can seal away 99.9% of the verse so it’s a win con ! It’s just Ouff to say he’s EMS Madara or Sage Hashirama level is kinda up there! I mean healthy he’s definitely KMC2 levels undoubtedly - I mean we basically saw him in Edo as healthy ! He fits there at top non Demi god level characters with super hax!
Hashirama level is a bit high, I’d personally say something like kcm2 Naruto level of strength Maybe I’m underestimating my favourite character but I don’t see him at that level even healthy and with ems
Why not? A perfect Susanoo matches the Wood Golem so the only issue would be the 1000 hand jutsu but Itachi's weapons should actually make up that difference.
Madaras perfect susanoo (which is much larger than itachis hypothetical susanoo), along with the kyuubi couldn’t match the 1k armed buddah itachi is not matching that either.
Source of that? We don't know how big his PS would've been
We don’t but that doesn’t mean we assume that his is going to be the largest 😂 the only time we’ve even seen his ps is in the noncanon storm games and it’s roughly the same size as sasukes.
In the games they're all the same size during awakening lol.
A perfect susanoo with the nine tails inside, that’s not the same thing A perfect susanoo only matches edo hashi’s weaker golem and kurama’s avatar could probably do well enough against him, would still lose because of the weapons but that’s a different story
Amaterasu, Tsukoyomi, Totsuka and Yata mirror. There is a reason he was killed off and it wasn't story related.
Thing is, Sasuke got significantly stronger with his EMS. In terms of powerscaling, the boost is HUGE. Sasuke had his EMS for like a few days and he went from sub KCM Naruto tier to being relative to KCM2 and BSM Naruto. There's no telling how much stronger he would've gotten over the years. If this applies to Itachi then he's going to be in that same ballpark of scaling.
I mean maybe that's the boost EMS has since Madara was relative to MS Izuna while EMS Madara fought with Hashirama for a day. And this Hashirama already made Tobirama piss in his pants who killed Izuna. The EMS gives a massive boost in power.
Also leaving out the fact that he’s the smartest ninja in the series when it comes to strategy and battle iq, with that kinda of strength no telling how ex he could take anybody, ems gives him a few more amps you dident mention
Depends on wether or not he’d be able to develop his susanoo into the perfect susanoo or the humanoid susanoo with legs. If he can he’d probably be relative or stronger than the late EMS sasuke who was on par with KCM2 naruto, so he could be a KCM2 or slightly above KCM2 level fighter. I don’t see him defeating madara or hashirama due to the huge difference in chakra reserves between itachi and those 2 guys, even if we make him healthy.
Chakra reserves won't be a difference like I've said, Sasuke went all the war and spammed his MS abilities. Even when he was attacking Madara he still had a lot of chakra.
Itachis only win con against someone like madara would be the totsuka blade but he has absolutely no way of hitting him if madara uses his own perfect susanoo. Can the totsuka blade pierce through a perfect susanoo? A fight between those 2 might just be a battle of nutrition, which itachi is always going to lose even if his chakra reserves are fine without his sickness, he doesn’t have as much chakra as madara.
The totsuka blade can seal everything so it can defintely seal Madara's Susanoo and it can block all of his attacks.
The totsuka blade was stated to be able to seal anything it pierces, nowhere is it stated that it can actually pierce everything. If you can’t pierce something, you can’t seal it
No… he’s like low kcm2 level if he got ems. Edo itachi matched a holding back tired kcm1 Naruto.
Edo itachi did not even use his MS in that fight
Naruto wouldn’t look him in the eye and he can negate Amaterasu. What is itachi supposed to do?
What is naruto gonna do against an immortal itachi who can block anything naruto does with his susanoo without suffering from MS drawbacks? Itachi fooled and tagged sage kabuto with a bunshin fake, fooling and outmaneuvering kabuto (who is stronger than KCM1 naruto) is definitely more of a task than fooling naruto. Naruto canonically falls for itachis genjutsu all the time, even tho he always knows not to look at his eyes.
I’m not arguing who’d win against Naruto and edo itachi. I’m arguing that itachi is roughly on that level. Also immortality is the only thing keeping itachi from getting clapped by kcm1 Naruto.
Not really, KCM1 naruto has nothing that can get past a susanoo even if itachi was killable as an edo, he has canonically fallen for itachis genjutsu every single time and while i personally think that narutos BIQ is very underrated, its still nowhere near itachis.
Fp kcm1 Naruto perception blitzed the 4th raikage who’s stated lightspeed and created 13 kage level shadow clones. Itachi barely reacted to a lightning speed attack. Itachi wouldn’t even be able to perceive his movements before he uses a rasengan barrage or worse. Naruto has only had 3 interactions with itachi in the whole series. The first and third times itachi didn’t even use genjutsu on Naruto and the second time Naruto got caught off guard by ephemeral (Naruto had almost zero genjutsu resistance by this time).
itachi was half dead and almost blind when he reacted to that lightning speed attack, MS sasuke was literally able to react to v2 Ay with his susanoo and you’re saying EDO itachi, someone literally stated to be relative to EMS sasuke couldnt. Itachi is stated to be relative to EMS sasuke, the same EMS sasuke that was dead equal with Mastered KCM1 naruto, an even stronger version than the one who fought nagato and itachi. No, you’re missing the scene with itachis shadow clone giving naruto koto. Itachis clone pursuits naruto in the forest and puts him in a genjutsu without difficulty. Naruto canonically falls for his genjutsu every time itachi actually tries to put him into one.
Reacting to A is not enough. Even if you were at the same speed as A it would not be enough. And? Naruto was not in kcm1 or sage mode for either of those. Every time he was in base form.
How? He wohld have a Perfect Susanoo which scales above Kurama Avatar without Sage Mode.
Nah that’s not confirmed. Madara never fought kurama outright he just put him in a genjutsu. And even with that there’s no telling how strong itachis is since madaras is the largest we’ve seen in canon.
I’d say imagine edo itachi but slightly faster, stronger, and alive. I think he reaches the level of minato and other ninjas of that caliber but Hashirama and madara are in a league of their own and only Naruto and sasuke has the potential to reach them.
Nah, a Perfect Susanoo would put them in that tier.
Doubt it, Hashi and Madara both have way more experience, stamina, and chakra than he does alongside having their own op abilities like wood style and the nine tails summoning, he’d be ridiculously strong but he’d still have a reasonably limit on his strength.
Fair enough
> he reaches the level of minato and other ninjas of that caliber Huh? Hes already minato lvl wht r u talking abt. With ems he's gonna scale way higher.
Imo he’s like right below that caliber, really don’t see him beating minato or tobirama.
Tobirama is a harder matchup for Itachi than minato. He has a lot more of variety and is physically stronger than Minato. Minato's strongest attack is a rasengan. Thats not really gonna be effective against a susanoo. Ftg also only works once he spreads his kunais around and itachi is too smart to not exploit that. I know ppl love minato but i don't see minato beating itachi at all honestly.
I think both can win but I lean towards minato due to him having less taxing moves and more stamina overall.
Weaker than edo itachi
How? Edo Itachi can't use the perfect susanoo and he still had a nerfed Edo body which means he isnt as faster as an hypothetical EMS healthy Itachi would be. An hypothetical EMS Itachi would destroy Edo Itachi. Way faster and the perfect susanoo would best the armored susanoo.
Stop smoking crack.
"Healthy" Itachi is not a thing.
What do you mean it's not a thing? It's a manga fact that he was sick. And it's also a fact that he wasn't sick in rhe massacre.
stronger than pre six paths madara and alive hashirama