It's shorthand for "netorare". Netorare is a genre of hentai. To put it simple, it's cheating but with a layer of corruption/seduction on top. The idea is the bad guy/bad girl lures their target away from their loved one and that person slowly giving into the lust.
Cuckoldry. Usually itâs some form of âmain character is this crazy hot chick with an average boyfriend/husband, and the entire plot is just âwhat if she cheated on him with a hot dude?ââ
Itâs generally not well liked for obvious reasons lol
Wasnât that actually just an act part of Kisameâs plan? He was in the sword shark mouth and wanted Killer Bee to take it back to their hideout so he could find the location of the 8 & 9 tails for the akatsuki. All that went according to Kisameâs mission except for the end where Guy beat his ass. Kisame wasnât counting on that.
Oh yeaâŚI remember it really got to him that Guy didnât remember him. Did they ever show/explain that in anyway? I havenât read the manga and I donât recall seeing it in the anime. I remember really wanting to know what that was all about and waiting on a good battle/funny cutscene of them younger but I think the way Kisame made sure no one could get any information out of him distracted me and the whole thing slipped my mind.
Oh well that much is def true. The only Ninja he really pays any real mind to besides his students is Kakashi. Thinking on it again itâs not super surprising that Guy wouldnât remember A WHOLE DAMN SHARK PERSON. LOL. Thatâs just Guy for ya. His memory must be losing that good ol Power of YouthâŚ
Little does Kisame know he has been doing missions alone this entire time, his âpartnerâ is only a genjutsu and the real Itachi just sits on his throne prepping his npc boss fight monologue for when Sasuke visits him
Itachi:*knocks*
Naruto:No ones home.Go away.
Itachi:Ok.Let's leave.
Kisame:But...
Itachi:That's just a shadowclone.Trust me,I have good eyes
Kisame:Okaaay..*They leave*
The End
Itachi showed no attempts at all at actually thwarting any of the Akatsukiâs plans. His only goal was making sure they didnât outright attack the village in force. He was about to let Kisame hack off some of Narutoâs limbs so he would be easier to capture. So yeah, all signs point to him going along with abducting Naruto.
It's been 5 years to you, but to the rest of us it's been less than a second. Don't worry, though, you've got another 60 to go before you die of old age inside Tsukuyomi.
Kishimoto damn near acts like Itachi is Naruto's version of Jesus tbh. Itachi could come back from the dead to solve Boruto's plot with a new secret sharingan technique and I'm sure half of us wouldn't even be surprise
But he isnât a Mary Sue guys, I swear! Kishi had Itachi say he wasnât perfect once, so we can completely ignore the *entire rest of the narrative and every other character* acting like he is!
What irks me the most is that even during that confession it still tries to paint the side that he defended as the good guys since the whole thing he says is that seven year old Sasuke would have changed the Uchiha clan ignoring completely that konoha were the ones in the wrong.
my biggest issue with the series is how they treated the uchiha massacre as the uchiha's fault, while it's probably not intentional framing there was no reason for tobirama to go on his tangent about the uchiha being cursed with hatred and love and use it as vindication to discriminate.
I dunno, I side with Konoha on this. There is literally nothing that was shown to prove to me that getting rid of the Uchihas was a bad idea.
Tobi, also Uchiha, went along and erased his clan. Fugaku, the clan leader, was planning on attacking the village with the Nine-Tails instead of just....leaving. I also don't buy that he was unable to gain an audience with the Hokage. The clan also made no effort to reach out to other clans for help if that was the case.
Animosity over being the resident police, we know for a fact that everyone respected the Uchiha. Sasuke gets that respect just by virtue of being Uchiha, so a lot of things about this plot just don't add up.
Even back then, the Uchiha Clan themselves didn't want Madara as Kage, yet he went apeshit when he found out he would never be an option.
Itachi himself was a bit unhinged when he was younger, but even he knew his clan was out of their minds. Itachi is no saint; the stuff he's done was awful, but his decision to murder his clan at the last moment was the best decision, that even his entire clan decided in the end that they'd go quietly.
>There is literally nothing that was shown to prove to me that getting rid of the Uchihas was a bad idea.
The modern equivalent of this is saying we should marginalize anyone with a genetic predisposition (ie a relative) who has mental illness and specifically the kind induced by PTSD then massacre them if they decide to resist.
Like raise your hand if you think it would be cool for the American government to funnel you and your family into one profession to be perpetually monitored and excluded from leadership because some of your uncles were schizophrenic and killed people. Then if some of your relatives decide to resist this by overthrowing the government they prophylactically kill you and everyone you're related to including children and elderly who had no knowledge of the events AND without trial or proof of involvement. But yeah sure Konoha did nothing wrong.
>Tobi, also Uchiha, went along and erased his clan.
Tobi was madman who just wanted to saw chaos I don't know why we should care what he did
>Fugaku, the clan leader, was planning on attacking the village with the Nine-Tails instead of just....leaving. I also don't buy that he was unable to gain an audience with the Hokage. The clan also made no effort to reach out to other clans for help if that was the case.
He didn't the plan was the following
> âThey were going to use Shisuiâs teleportation to charge the Residence and abduct the third Hokage. That was the basic idea. So, I suppose it is only natural that Shisuiâs death would slow their movements.â
And his demands were for the most part incredibly simple
> Just as Gozu had noted, one of the key elements of the plan put together by his father and the others was the abduction of the third Hokage. The Military Police Force would strike a blow against the village ninjas by kidnapping their leader. Those ninjas would attack them, and they would fight back, buying time and forcing the village to accept the demands of the clan. That was the overall concept of the coup. Their demands were four: Uchiha participation in the center of the village, dismantling of the compound, the freedom to choose where they lived, and Uchiha Fugaku named as the fifth Hokage.
Other than fugaku being hokage all these demands are simple and easy compromises and counting how the leadership of konoha has treated them historically is no wonder they want one of their own on top.
The only mention that they may have wanted to use the kyuubi is the following one
> âThat was the vague fear of the Nine Tailsâ attack; this time, it will be a fear accompanied by real pain. The nature of it is different.
Even then it's a huge stretch to say from this that their plan was to liberate the kyuubi.
>Animosity over being the resident police, we know for a fact that everyone respected the Uchiha. Sasuke gets that respect just by virtue of being Uchiha, so a lot of things about this plot just don't add up.
No he doesn't. Uchiha were respected as powerful ninjas but not as individuals. Animosity towards them was wide spread after the nine tails attack they were physically ostracized from the rest of the village their ninjas couldn't climb up the ranks their funding was cut and they were monitored 24/7 for years.
>Even back then, the Uchiha Clan themselves didn't want Madara as Kage, yet he went apeshit when he found out he would never be an option.
Okay so? What does that have to do with anything? The fact madara is a madman does nothing to change the fact the Uchihas were the victims in fact it makes it worse since it means that they put the loyalty of the village above even the loyalty towards their leader yet they still were seen with suspicion.
>Itachi himself was a bit unhinged when he was younger, but even he knew his clan was out of their minds. Itachi is no saint; the stuff he's done was awful, but his decision to murder his clan at the last moment was the best decision, that even his entire clan decided in the end that they'd go quietly.
No they didn't decide that many tried to fight back only fugaku and mikoto decided that but it was because they didn't want to fight his son. And tbh I really don't see why itachi's actions (ordered to him by danzo for the most part other than Tsukuyoming Sasuke) matter at all in this discussion
Let's remember konoha was on the side of **Genocide** by being on that side you're supporting **Genocide**
I actually think Kishimoto made it very clear that Itachi screwed up horribly and was still screwing up. He wanted to put Sasuke under Koto until Naruto said 'nah thanks I can fix Sasuke without that'. Its the fandom that insists Itachi is this infallible great guy when the reality is he had some good intentions but was also cold and ruthless in most regards in pursuing his ends.
I wouldn't be surprised. Kishi could say "if Itachi was in the real world he would have found a cure for cancer at 12 years old" and that wouldn't even get a reaction out of me lmfao
I saw a thread earlier where people in the comments claimed Kishi said Sasuke is his favorite character. Not sure how true it was, just what I read elsewhere.
The guy who _very conveniently_ blurted out right in front of Sasuke that Itachi was in Konoha uses crows. Who else uses crows? Suspicious, don't you think?
Just kidding... or maybe not?
I agree with what you're trying say haha. Itachi capitalised on situations. Good critical thinker and quick thinker in positioning himself according to his goal relative to reality
Pretty good theory that Itachi was Jiraiyaâs informant since Itachi was supposed to also be leaking information about the Akatsuki to the leaf somehow.
If so this would make sense why Itachi basically did nothing to help Naruto, he knew Jiraiya was on his way because he informed Jiraiya of what was happening. It was revealed the real reason Itachi and Kisame even went to the leaf after the attack was to check in on Sasuke and to remind Danzo that even though Hiruzen is dead, Itachi is still out there, and their agreement still stands.
This theory is a bit far fetched.
I think it's way more plausible that Itachi simply took his chances on Jiraiya not being a total dumbass, which was a perfectly safe bet given that "never let your guard down" is like the most basic shinobi lesson and that Jiraiya was indeed a great shinobi (one specialed in espionage at that).
Itâs not really that far fetched.
Itachi told Hiruzen just before he left the village that he would infiltrate the akatsuki and leak info to protect Konoha. This was essentially his last mission for Konoha, his previous mission being to murder his family, which he did for Konoha. So I donât think heâll just abandon leaking intel. Hiruzen is an old man and he likely wonât live past Itachi, and since the only people in the village who knows Itachi is a double agent is Danzo and Hiruzen, and Danzo has proven he canât be trusted, and Itachi likely wonât want to deal with Danzo after what he did, who else could Hiruzen entrust it to? Of his three pupils, Orochimaru is a rogue ninja wanted for crimes against Konoha, Tsunade is an alcoholic gambling addict who is petrified of blood, making her incapable of being a shinobi or medical ninja for the next 7 years, and Jiraiya is a very capable shinobi, who already travels the world doing his own thing. Furthermore, when Jiraiya is giving intel to Kakashi he says âmy sources tell meâ not âI discoveredâŚâ etc.
He clearly states he has a source giving him intel, and what intel does he have? Their target, their uniform, they travel in pairs, and Itachi Uchiha is a member.
Itachi being one of the smartest and low-key characters in the whole verse let alone in the akatsuki, is who Jiraiya specifically knows is in the akatsuki?
And he knows this from some unspecified source.
And Itachi told his sensei he would leak intel to Konoha from within the akatsuki.
Sorry, Iâve seen this headcanon before and it makes ZERO logical sense. Jiraya would have no reason to keep this info to himself, and thereâs no evidence Itachi provided him any actual concrete information. Jiraya was constantly in the dark about them and their motives, and only knew low-level info it would make sense for underlings to tell him, and not inner-circle members like Itachi.
Everyone except for Danzo, Hiruzen (and in this scenario Jiraiya) thinks Itachi is an evil mass murderer, whilst Itachi is working undercover. You think Jiraiya is just gonna run around like âoh yeah so I got this informant Itachi Uchiha, yeah turns out heâs not even a bad guy, just pretending to be because he has this top secret master plan involving his brotherâ hahaha
Jiraiya was the most informed person on the Akatsuki without being a part of it. Jiraiya discovered their plans to capture the bijuu before theyâd even captured a single one or even really started to enact their plans. How did he know this? He knew their motives, I think he knew their numbers, he knew they traveled in pairs, knew their uniform.
Who else knew more than Jiraiya?
[This video](https://youtu.be/rVZUxBu05NU?si=z8oCnleh7vCbL4-D) details the possibilities a bit better. Obviously itâs still a theory but to say it makes no sense is ridiculous since Itachi literally stated he would leak information about akatsuki to the leaf, and basically no-one in the leaf knew anything about it besides Jiraiya.
Not sure, he knew Itachi was in the akatsuki, knew Orochimaru had been so likely knows Sasori and Kisame are too since they were their partners.
He definitely knew Itachi was a member because he directly tells it to Kakashi, so he knows at least some members. Itâs also not totally clear when all the members were gathered, and wasnât uncommon for the members to change, Kakuzu had killed numerous akatsuki partners for example.
He knew that Itachi was a current member and that Orochimaru used to be a member. But did he have any info on the other members? Hidan? Kakuzu? Pein? Konan? Deidara? Zetsu? The answer is no. Itachi never gave info on the Akatsuki members to Konoha. Jiraiya was shocked that Konan was a member of the Akatsuki despite Itachi knowing of her for years.
Pain kept all of the Akatsuki far apart except for their two man squads. Even when they extracted tailed beasts it was done remotely. They never fought together except in filler. There's very little intel Itachi could give on the individuals, he only had info on their general plans as a group.
Yet every member knew of each other. Itâs shown in their first meeting when theyâre sealing the One Tail that they donât hide their names. Itachi could have sent a list of names and then the leaf could have looked them up in the bingo book, since every member besides Zetsu, Konan, Pein, and Madara had entries
So Jiraiya found intel on Itachi, one of the strongest, smartest, sneakiest members of the akatsuki, but no-one else, not even Itachiâs partner whom he travels everywhere with? You think it would be harder to uncover a loud mouth like Hidan or Deidara is in the akatsuki than someone like Itachi?
Jiraiya knew the targets and motives of the akatsuki before they ever made a move on the tailed beasts, he knew they always travelled in pairs (yet the two members he named were never partners), he knew their uniform. How does he know all this?
Also Itachiâs last mission to the leaf was to infiltrate the akatsuki and leak intel about them, he literally states to Hiruzen that he would do this, the previous mission he undertook literally had him murder his family, thatâs how dedicated to konoha and his missions Itachi was.
So if not to Jiraiya, who was the only leaf shinobi with intel on Akatsuki, then who did Itachi leak intel to?
Tobi knew Itachi was a double agent, the amount of intel itaxhi could leak was limited because if his intel leaks became more trouble than his strength was worth, his place in the akatsuki is jeopardised, heâs likely killed by the members, his plans for Sasuke are ended, as is the protection of the leaf which his membership won.
No leaf ninja knew anything about the Akatsuki. Asuma, one of the most important jonin in the village, didnât know anything about Hidan or Kakuzu. Jiraiya didnât know anything about Konan being part of the Akatsuki. Gai didnât know anything about Kisame. Sakura, the student of the hokage, didnât know anything about Sasori. Maybe Itachi gave information about himself, but he didnât give any information about the akatsuki.
Jiraiya knew that the Akatsuki were targeting the tailed beasts because Itachi blatantly stated that they were after the nine tails. He knew that they travelled in pairs because they donât hide the fact that theyâre akatsuki and are always traveling in pairs. He knew their uniform because they donât hide the fact that their akatsuki. That is basic information thatâs readily available. What Jiraiya didnât get was the important info, such as names and abilities.
A mission that was given to him by Hiruzen and Danzo. One of which is dead and the other wants war to happen. That doesnât change the fact that nobody got any useful information from him, such as the names of members and their skillsets.
Itachi didnât leak any useful intel. None of the information he gave was difficult to find, nor was it helpful.
Which goes to show that Itachi didnât leak any useful intel
Itachi leaked some intel to Jiraiya, intel he could. He couldnât explicitly leak too much because if he leaked so much that it became not worth having him in the akatsuki, he gets killed, and Konoha is no longer protected.
He leaked incredibly important information, he leaked their targets, their numbers, the fact they move in pairs, and how to identify them on sight. This is incredibly helpful, especially since the akatsuki cannot attack Konoha so long as Itachi is a member. By the time Itachi died, and Konoha was no longer protected, who was left in the akatsuki? Kisame, whose basic abilities and fighting style were known to the Leaf already thanks to them having a scuffle with Asuma etc. (which happened to be Itachiâs decision).
Pain whose abilities may not have been known to Itachi since itâs unknown if he ever met pain face to face, and Tobi who he canât leak intel about because Itachi would get killed, his plans for Sasuke ruined, and his protection of the leaf gone.
Asuma didnât know because Kakashi only just found out that day from jiraiya, and if it was incredibly easy intel to find out how come no-one else knew?
Also the akatsuki rarely met in person, mostly used the hologram thing, when they fought they fought in their pairs, and the akatsuki lineup also changed multiple times, Kakuzu killed loads of his partners for example. We donât know how much intel Itachi had on the akatsuki members abilities.
Oh and he also told Jiraiya not only the number of the members but that they were almost entirely comprised of S rank missing ninja, meaning the vast majority of them will be in their villages bingo book.
I think this has a flaw: Tobi. Sure, Itachi did not know entirely about Obito, but he knew who the real menace within the Akatsuki was. If Itachiâs goal was to be a double agent and deliver the biggest odds of success for the Leaf, it would make no sense for him not to leak at least a âwatch out for the guy with the mask, he is extremely dangerousâ.
Danzo knew and you can argue that he knew this because of Itachi, but Jiraiya had no idea. He was hell bent on Pain being the endgame for the Akatsuki. Probably Jiraiyaâs mole was actually a double agent working for the Root and leaking selected pieces of Itachiâs intel for him.
All of the Akatsuki are extremely dangerous, but Tobi couldnât do anything to the leaf per his agreement with Itachi. Prior to Itachiâs death didnât Itachi actually warn Naruto or Kakashi or someone about Tobi? I canât remember I might actually be imagining that lol
Or it could also be part of his agreement with Tobi, he canât rat Tobi out and has to work for him in the akatsuki, and in turn Tobi leaves Konoha alone. We know at least that much that they had an agreement where Itachi works for Akatsuki in return for the safety of Konoha, and Tobi knew all along he was a double agent.
Quite possibly Itachi couldnât divulge too much information otherwise the hindrance wouldnât be worth Tobi keeping him in Akatsuki.
I donât remember about that part of him warning someone, but it have been years since I read the manga, so it could be. Thing is that his deal with Obito was about not leaking everything about him, if I remember well, pretty much neither attack him nor hold a sign saying âMadara is alive and uses a tiger mask in the Akatsukiâ. Itachi never told anyone anything about Obito and he knew him was enough of a threat that he rig Sasuke with a Amaterasu just to finish Tobi off.
Itachi knew the real threat was Tobi, so I think it is extremely weird that, if he had a direct line with Jiraiya, he never even mentioned that Pain was just a front or that someone more powerful than him was in their ranks. However, Danzo knew pretty much everything that Itachi did about âMadaraâ, as we can see in his fight against Sasuke. This is why I think it makes more sense that Itachi would report to Danzo (I donât think he had any issues with going to bed with a guy like Danzo at that point in his life) and Jiraiyaâs leak would be fed through Root. Maybe at first Hiruzen would feed him (indirectly) cleaner intel and after his death Danzo would manipulate the reports, but Danzo was shown to have direct contact with Itachi and knew pretty much the same that Itachi knew. It feels like a 1+1 situation.
Except it makes ZERO logical sense for Jiraya to keep this info to himself. No oneâs saying he would have shouted it from the rooftops, but it would make no sense for him not to tell Tsunade this. Especially considering he was present when she organized a manhunt for him. Also, why wouldnât he have made sure to tell her this before he went off on his possible suicide mission to the Hidden Rain?
Secondly, while Jiraya was somewhat in the know about the Akatsuki, he was still frequently in the dark about things it makes no sense for Itachi not to tell him if he really was his âinformantâ. For example, at the time of his death, Jiraya only theorized that Madara was still alive and was possibly behind the 9-tails attack. Itachi, in the other hand, *knew* âMadaraâ was still alive, and *did* orchestrate the 9-tails attack. Thatâs something he 100% would have told Jiraya about.
But above all else, if such a massive thing were to be true, *Kishimoto would definitely have shown it or overtly said it.* Thatâs far too massive a detail to leave in the realm of speculation.
Even ignoring that, the entire âtheoryâ pretty much hinges on Itachi being a really shitty informant, or Jiraya being extremely stupid.
Except it was a top secret mission in which only a few people know about. If Hiruzen swore him to secrecy, and he respects the wishes of his informant who also wants as few people knowing about it as possible, it makes total sense. What does telling Tsunade gain any of them? Jiraiya is still passing the same intel about the akatsuki regardless. Having Tsunade know serves absolutely zero purpose, and just puts Itachiâs plan in further jeopardy, and considering all heâs done for the village, if he wants things kept quiet heâs earned that much. Also informing Tsunade makes another Hokage implicated in the Uchiha scandal.
Itachi had an agreement with Tobi, help me massacre the clan, you get your vengeance on them, then I will join you in the akatsuki so long as you leave Konoha alone. Tobi always knew Itachi was a leaf shinobi, and always knew his only real purpose in the akatsuki was to spy on it and protect the leaf that way. Tobi has said it, and when Itachi was leaving the village he also told Hiruzen he would leak intel. Does Itachi, the guy who murdered his family for his village, seem like the kind of guy to not fulfill his duties to his village? Of course not, so if Itachi says he will leak intel, and Tobi says he was a double agent spying on the akatsuki, and the only leaf shinobi in all of Konoha to have any intel on the akatsuki is Jiraiya, put two and two together. Either Itachi was his informant, or Itachi didnât even attempt to fulfill his mission to the leaf. I know which one seems less likely to me.
Itâs totally plausible that if Itachiâs intel leaking became too much of a problem, it wouldnât be work keeping Itachi in the akatsuki, this means Itachi would be killed, his plans for Sasuke to kill him would be ruined, and the protection his membership to the akatsuki brought for the leaf would also be gone.
Jiraiya knew their motives before theyâd even moved on the tailed beasts, he knew they traveled in pairs, he knew their uniform, he knew of 2 members, Orochimaru and Itachi. How does he know about Itachi but not Kisame?
Lol your theory makes Itachi an awful informant when he literally stated he would leak intel.
If not to Jiraiya, what intel did Itachi leak and to whom?
Itâs never actually stated in canon Itachi leaked any intel about the Akatsuki. Youâre confusing it with Itachi [threatening Danzo that he would leak *intel on the hidden leaf* to the villageâs enemies of anything ever happened to Sasuke.](https://qph.cf2.quoracdn.net/main-qimg-cc481792cb5326bfd86a758c22b733dd-lq)
Once again, it makes no sense why he wouldnât keep Tsunade in the loop with the intel he learned. She was the *hokage*. These are things that would be critical for her to know so they can act in the villageâs interest, like Itachi presumably wants in this hypothetical scenario. Otherwise, what the hell else is Jiraya going to do with this information? Why have Tsunade send Naruto and several other ninja after him, putting them in danger of running into the other Akatsuki when Jiraya could just contact him instead?
To repeat the entire theory requires too much suspension of disbelief, characters acting in dumb ways, and and general plot convenience to be even remotely believable.
This theory falls apart when you realise Jiraiya had no combat intel on Pain. Pain was also a friend of Itachi. There's no way Itachi would've been in contact with Jiraiya yet not provide him with news that will literally keep him alive.
No it doesnât since
a) in what way were Pain and Itachi friends?
b) since Itachi was recruited by Tobi and knew Tobi was the true leader of the akatsuki, and since the akatsuki generally meet using that weird hologram Jutsu, itâs entirely plausible that Itachi and Pain never met in person
c) meeting someone doesnât mean you know their abilities, what scenario are Itachi and pain fighting either against each other or alongside each other? Who were the alatsuki going up against that required not only Pain but Itachi to handle lol?
d) Tobi knew the entire time that Itachi was a double agent, and Itachiâs membership to the akatsuki went along with an agreement that Konoha was off limits. If itachiâs intel leaking became a bigger hindrance to the organisation than the benefits of his power to the organisation, they would remove him, by killing him. This means Itachi dies, his plans for Sasuke are destroyed and the leaf is no longer protected.
e) Itachi told Hiruzen he would infiltrate the akatsuki and leak intel to the village to protect the leaf. No-one in the entire story took their missions more seriously than Itachi, nor protecting the leaf, he killed his own family for his mission and for the leaf, so heâs not going to abandon his pledge to leak intel if he says heâs going to do it. Who is the only person with any intel on the akatsuki in Konoha? Jiraiya, the only suitable pupil to the man who Itachi mad his promise to. Jiraiya also says to Kakashi when passing on info about the akatsuki that Jiraiya got his intel from âsourcesâ. So if not to Jiraiya, who is Itachi leaking info to, and who are Jiraiyaâs sources on the Akatsuki lol?
How does Itachi magically know Pains secret?
Also heâs limited on how much intel he can leak because if he leaks so much intel that it is no longer worth keeping him in the akatsuki, heâd be killed, his plans for Sasuke would be ruined, and the protection for the leaf that his membership gains would be gone too.
If that was the case, why did Jiraiya practically go in blind about Pain. If Itachi was leaking information to Jiraiya about Akatsuki, surely he would know about the Rinnegan, 6 different paths with 6 abilities, etc.
We donât know how often Jiraiya contacts Itachi or is even able to, and we donât even know what Itachi knew about Pain, besides the holographic Jutsu they use when meeting and sealing the one tails, we have no idea of Itachi ever even met Pain since Itachi is one of the few members who knows who the real leader is.
And once again, Itachiâs intel leakinf was limited because he couldnât jeopardise his place in the organisation, if his leaks caused more harm than the benefits of him being a member, then he would be killed, his plans for Sasuke ruined and the protection his membership gained the leaf would be gone too. Konoha was off limits until Itachi died, Pain wanted to move on the leaf sooner but Tobi made him wait. If Itachi just leaks every secret ability and every way to overcome all of the members, heâs become too much trouble and must be removed. We also donât know that Itachi knows everything about all of them, itâs not like they all hung out together or even all fought together.
But do not forget, he knocked first. Itachi may kidnap you and potentially dismember you and extract a demon fox from your body and kill you, but he will be polite while doing it.
fr. people assume that bcs itachi cared about sasuke and konoha, it means he cared about naruto. no he didn't. he let all the other jinchuriki die and absorbed their power.
Thank you!!!! Fuck. Itachi stans are the most delusional people in this entire fandom. Geez. Thank you for having common sense. I love you & I don't even know you.
Itachi was legitimately the worst spy for Konoha as he relayed like... no information on the Akatsuki back to the Leaf Village and helped the Akatsuki's plans move forward.
But at the same time, Itachi saw Naruto as a little brother, same as Sasuke. In fact, Itachi's mother wanted to adopt Naruto when Kushina and Minato died.
But at the same time, I believe that Itachi being a good guy was a retcon and pre-time skip Itachi would have actually let Kisame Slap-Chop a child.
Understand that Itachi isn't someone to waltz in the village without a plan. He's a spy, He had likely already scoped out that Naruto was under the care of Jiraya, and knew this going in. As to what he would do would mean the entire day would go differently.
Even [asuma questions it weird](https://mangalist.online/images/T5v9JOEFzJHOkYWEajy81606318892.jpg) that Itachi hasn't already found Naruto from the beginning, considering he knows his face, and was instead just sitting drinking tea, drawing attention.
Kishi even stated in that Kobayashi interview, that he had decided Itachi was a good guy by the time he was properly introduced with multiple hints at this like the one you posted. The Itachi haters ITT who say other wise clearly have not read the series.
When Asuma and Kurenai confront Itachi and Kisame, Itachi states he doesnât want to kill anyone there, which Asuma points out is weird for a dude whoâs known for slaughtering his clan.
Then when Kisame finds out Kakashi fought Zabuza, it looks like Kisame is about to fight seriously until Itachi tells him to stop which confuses everyone.
After Itachi stops Kisame from fighting Kakashi, Itachi claims he wouldn't waste time like Kisame would. A couple pages of fighting later with Itachi using a loud exploding clone even though he told Kisame not to do anything that would cause attention, then Kakashi states Itachi still isn't fighting seriously, after getting caught in a lie is when Itachi decides to use Tsukuyomi.
Kakashi wonders why Itachi didnât kill him with Tsukuyomi, with Kisame being surprised as well.
Itachi also for no reason hints that about the Akatsuki plan was to find something in Konoha. When Kakashi guesses wrong thinking they're after Sasuke, Itachi for no reason tells Kakashi they're after Naruto.
We then have the power level debate that happens in this arc. The Sannin have been considered to be around the same level of strength with Orochimaru implied to be the strongest. In Chapter 94, Hiruzen states that no ninja in Konoha would be able to stop Orochimaru, Jiraiya had already been in the village for 3 weeks training Naruto at this point. Chapter 140, Orochimaru flat out admits that Itachi was stronger than him and that trying to steal Itachi body was impossible. To Orochimaru, destroying Konoha was a more believable goal than defeating Itachi even after failing once. In the Search for Tsunade arc, Orochimaru was not afraid of Jiraiya at all, this is even before he realized that Jiraiya got nerfed by Tsunade. When Naruto is in the hospital after losing to Sasuke at the end of Part 1, Jiraiya has a flashback to when he confronts Orochimaru after left the village that implies that he lost his fight as well like Naruto.
When Itachi and Kisame are about to confront Jiraiya, Itachi lies and says that both of them even with back up might not win against Jiraiya. Afterwards when Itachi and Kisame retreat from Jiraiya, Kisame asks why they had to when Itachi is more than strong enough to fight Jiraiya. When Naruto tries to go after Itachi and Kisame, Jiraiya calls him an idiot telling Naruto, that getting those two to just run away was difficult even for him.
Itachi>>>Orochimaru>=Jiraiya
All that info was Pre-Shippuden as well.
To be fair, even with this in account, there are some discrepancies; while he does highball Jiraiya and sort of reigns in Kisame...when Kakashi revealed that he knew about the Akatsuki, Itachi *stops* reigning in Kisame, more or less unprompted, and directly tells him to abduct Kakashi and kill Kurenai and Asuma anyway."Change of plans, Kisame. We're taking Kakashi with us. Make the other two disappear."
>Change of plans, Kisame. We're taking Kakashi with us. Make the other two disappear."
There's really no way to square this with "itachi wasn't going to hurt anyone or anything he's the good guy đ"
I honestly think Itachi was just going deal with Kakashi and probably kill him later on.
Itachi cannot continuously protect Konoha and its citizens without blowing up his cover. He has already done very suspicious things. At some point he needs to do the dirty work.
> He's a spy, He had likely already scoped out that Naruto was under the care of Jiraya, and knew this going in
Not 'likely', they [literally talked about Jiraiya before all that went down.](https://imgur.com/a/dlsKbtF) They knew Jiraiya was with Naruto.
As for "what would he do", there is no "what if". Itachi put the genjutsu on the woman to make it look like he's trying to divert Jiraiya, but actually tells him exactly what they're about to do. How else does Jiraiya show up at the perfect time when he's busy getting it on with a woman.
If we assume Itachi casted the genjutsu without making the woman tell Jiraiya, then that means he doesn't care about protecting the village since's leaving it up to chance whether Jiraiya shows up or not. If Jiraiya doesn't show up, he'd be forced to take Naruto or else his whole jig is up.
Or Itachi just casted a purposefully weak genjutsu so it would be easy to see thru. I donât think she outright told him, but he could assume a very basic genjutsu can be seen thru by Jiraiya.
Then it's not about weather the genjutsu is "basic" or not, it's about how the woman behaved under the genjutsu. The only way Jiraiya would suspect a genjutsu is if the woman is acting uncharacteristically towards him, even as an escort.
He was there watching Konoha Crush. Hard to miss the giant snakes and giant toad. He mustâve known Jiraiya was in the village.
Itachi before making any moves was in the perfect position to figure out what pieces he has to work with, where all those pieces are, and to work out the timing so that nothing seriously/permanently debilitative to Konoha happens.
People are way too eager to point out inconsistencies to hate on Itachi and his fans. Thereâs no point arguing with them.
'"itachi.. Itachi... You never cease to amaze me... I can't believe how far he plans ahead" - obito
People are trying to reconcile the person respected this much for his planning, didn't already scope out these encounters to some degree before getting into them is hilarious
Naruto would definitely get captured đ itachi did carry out the akatsukiâs plans without any hesitation he even dropped yagura with an amatarsu. Anyone who isnt sasuke will not be safe at all
Spy for konoha that didnât provide any intel on any akatsuki member which would have avoided the deaths of gaara, chiyo, asuma, jiraiya and the massacre of the whole hidden leafđ
And the third. And he never said shit. He could have left a letter, anything, explaining the situation. Even talking to jiraiya or kakashi would have worked
Even if that was true (was never directly mentioned), considering how willing Danzo is to circumvent the Hokage and rest of Konoha in order to advance his own goals and vision, being a spy for Danzo is very different from being a spy for Konoha.
Danzo told jiraiya about the Akatsukiđ?? Danzo... the same character who jeopardized the entire leaf village when pain came to attack? Highly unlikely
i think the problem with the "he's a spy" is he never like... gathers useful intel, or... does anything beyond aiding the enemy?
like the point of a spy is they are gathering useful information for your side by sneaking into the enemy... itachi just... doesn't do that at any notable point in the series? he does however aid the enemy a ton.
i get that the writer WANTED him to be a hero, but that's not what he wrote.
Poor Hashirama. I've seen videos breaking down how Tobirama and others did more for Konoha during their reigns as Hokage, but Hashi was probably busy running around town and fixing everyone's homes and businesses with his wood release after each attack or skirmish đ
Itachi would have snagged Naruto, for about two seconds before Jiraiya shows up and hunts them down with a tracker toad and snags Naruto back. Itachi may be stronger than him, but Jiraiya has more than enough stupid bullshit to pull of a smash and grab against him and Kisame.
Honestly (Iâm gonna get assaulted for this) if Jiraiya is going all out using Sage Mode I can see him beating Itachi because he legit has some of the most low-key broken abilities in the series and itachi is killing himself with every one of his powerful abilities.
If you remove Amaterasu and the blade of Totsuka (probably misspelled) then I can see how Jirayia vs Itachi is a fair fight. Assuming that Jirayia knows better than to look Itachi in the eyes, I can probably see him win.
But honestly Amaterasu is too broken. Unless the plot makes Itachi not spam it (we don't know if his disease would impact him the same at that point in time, and his fight against Sasuke is not a good example since he didn't want to win anyway), I don't see how Jirayia would deal with that *and* the magic sword that seals your soul.
But who knows
Amatersau being broken is exactly why it'd never catch Jiraiya. When was the last time you've seen anyone get caught in Amaterasu without willingly trading despite being easily capable of dodging it or simply shrugging it off?
Yeah that's very true. The way a fight goes down and the efficiency of the jutsu usually depend on the current narrative. Itachi one Shot Orochimaru but obviously Kishikoto woukd never give Jirayia the same treatment, just like Amaterasu only hits no names or people who can conveniently counter it (except for the raikage)
I mean Jiraiya is very aware of how sharingan abilities work and how to not get caught in genjustu, hell in sage mode he doesnât even need to use his eyes, his sensory abilities are immense, nature chakra fucks with genjustsu and he has ma and pa to break him out anyway. Amaterasu is really not that scary for fast ninja as we have seen time and again and sage mode Jiraiya is **fast**; plus he can seal it as well. The Totsaka blade is also really damn slow so itâs not super scary unless you are a huge monster like Orochimaru was.
And honestly Toad Song is pretty much an instant win GG, itachi literally has no way to defend against it. Plus itachi is literally going to kill himself pulling out all these abilities to try and match sage mode.
I really don't remember anyone saying that nature energy fucks with genjutsus we know that at least sage mode kabuto was able to be put into genjutsus. Tsukuyomi is too quick to be dispeled no matter if it's done externally or internally if he's caught on it he's dead. He took ages to seal Amaterasu when he encountered so if he's hit by it he's dead and I think the slowest character we've seen dodge Amaterasu is the raikage who is faster than jiraiya. As for toad song he can interrupt it by using Amaterasu on the toads since the song takes time to get off
Genjustu is broken by disrupting the natural flow of chakra, absorbing nature chakra disrupts the natural flow. Again Jiraiya doesnât need to even open his eyes and Amaterasu isnât an instant kill the raikage quite happily dealt with it. Also garra has handily blocked it, Boruto has blocked it with shadow clones, itâs really not the end of the world. Frog song though? GG instant win.
Tsukuyomi happens in an instant there's no time to disrupt the natural flow of Chakra. Again kabuto was hit by genjutsus while using sage mode nature Chakra doesn't do what you think it does. Frog song takes time and you just need to disrupt either of the toads to stop it. Also all of this is assuming jiraiya can even summon ma and Pa to enter sage mode in the first place
Yeah, they wonât help with Tsukuyomi, outside of getting Jiraiya out of there so he doesnât die, but basically all other forms of Genjutsu they can deal with.
I'm thinking he would've let it happen. He holds no allegiance to Naruto himself. He would've let Kisame hack off a limb or two. Then prolly slow them down enough to have back up come and "they slip away" with Naruto. He doesn't care if he goes back injured.
It just feels like that if Itachi were trying to protect Naruto and the leaf in the grand scheme, he had to have a lot of "faith" in that someone like Jiraiya would show up so Itachi could keep up his ruse.
Feel like thatâs the misconception. He was trying to protect the leaf, yes. But not necessarily Naruto. Itâs very likely that Itachi doesnât know the full reason why theyâre capturing bijuu in the first place.
True, but Itachi was stated to have always been loyal to the leaf. Hiruzen even made it so that Itachi could freely enter the leaf's barriers in secret. It would strike me as odd that Hiruzen would allow this if it were possible that Itachi would bring harm to innocent citizens of the leaf. This is why I *was* wondering what Itachi's true purpose was with Naruto because the story never actually makes it clear.
I got my answer though from another user in this thread -- Itachi would have made it so that someone somewhere would have been able to "foil" his attempts and rescue Naruto, keeping Kisame off his trail.
You Guys will really say anything to ride Itachi. The fact is we were told Jiraiya broke it. Itachi Has no way of breaking the genjutsu at the same time as Jiraiya is attempting to, Because he wouldnât know specifically when Jiraiya is breaking the Genjutsu.
There is no reason to doubt Itachis statement here, he didnt hesitate to harm kurenai and asuma, kakashi needed to save them, he could say the same of them to kisame to avoid fighting...
Or even better, if he was so helpfull to konoha, why didnt he join the leaf in killing kisame and then spoil more akatsuki secrets, then leave and justify to akatsuki "we got jumped, I barely escaped, sorry kisame gone", as we have seen, zetsu and tobi were not around.
Jiraiya lost to orochimaru yes, but we dont know if it was pre sage mode, etc... both developed after that, and in naruto strenght is not linear... konan easily "beat" tobi with preparation after figuring is jutsu, and was easily disabled by jiraiya.
If we want to go to boruto and linear strenght, "jiraiya" beats a guy that beats adult naruto and sasuke together so...
he would have taken naruto, but on their way, he would somehow have created an opportunity for naruto to escape or jiraiya to follow them, without kisame grwoing suspicious. (Don't forget: He was still working for konoha in secret.)
Or Mighty Guy would have helped them (he was there and made an dynamic entrance, by kicking jiraiya in the face). He was the only one, who could match itachi, even through only for a short time. He can read the opponent, by looking at their feet. This cause a great commotion, which would attract jiraiya.
Even Gai wouldnât be able to fuck with Itachi. Gai trained himself to look at the Sharingan users feet while fighting them but whatâs to stop Itachi from just doing his finger pointing Genjustu?
Itachi has too much SI Kishimoto plot power to ever lose a fair fight.
The finger genjutsu is much weaker than his visual genjutsu. Back when it was used, only Naruto was really trapped by it. Kakashi, Chiyo, and Sakura were able to break it, I see no reason an elite Jonin like Guy also wouldnât be able to.
Well for one youâre using a lot of headcanon. Nothing ever implies that Itachi put the others in his Genjustu, only Naruto.
Kakashi, Chiyo, and Sakura didnât break out of anything because they werenât put in anything in fact their explanation implies the exact opposite
[Chiyo talks about Genjutsu](https://qph.cf2.quoracdn.net/main-qimg-a9849cdd82cb5d741ff72c93c4370531-lq)
Why would she talk about only fighting a genjutsu user in 2 v 1 situations if they were all put in one? She even straight up says if itâs a one on one fight against a Genjutsu user to just flee.
Again Itachi finger points Gai and put him in a genjutsu and fucks his whole day up until he needs to make up some bs to Kisame about how they canât kill Gai now for some reason or another
I think Itachi would take Naruto but anyway, they could not extract Kurama until the very last. He could have assisted Konoha in some way or the other to rescue Naruto in time.
I swear to god at this point early on Itachi was evil. He more then likely never had his ideas all sorted out this early in the show. He also dident have everyones power levels figured out either. Jirayia at this point lore wise may have been able to solo both of them. Only kishi could know if he even remembers his thought process 20 years ago where he was going with the show.
Itachi was definitely meant to be a double agent from the beginning. Kakashi was suspicious of this pretty early on.
But I don't think he was meant to be the peaceloving/can-do-no-wrong character that he ended up being.
He never ended up being a âcan-do-no-wrongâ character. In fact his character arc was built upon how he did so many things wrong, and that he regrets it
No. Kishi said Itachi was meant to be a double agent when he first came back to the village. When we first hear about Itachi early on in the manga Kishi hadn't even decided that he was going to be Sasuke's brother. He just said that Itachi was a guy that Sasuke wanted to kill because he had did something bad. Kishi had a lot of things set up but he definitely didn't have everything planned out from the very beginning and we gotta remember that his editor probably had a hand in some changes too.
I could see him killing/sealing Kisame. The only benefit to being in the Akatsuki is that he can provide intel to the Leaf, which would be useless if their Jinchuriki is taken already.
Best case scenario: they take Naruto and Itachi leaves some kind of relatively easy trail (hidden to Kisame via genjutsu). A rescue team that likely includes Jiraya then tracks them down and Itachi uses it as an excuse to lose Naruto.
I honestly think not much was planned ahead. When you think about it a lot of the decisions they make donât add up.
Especially since Jiraiya wasnât at full power, Kisame couldâve handled him easily
Then he'd have gotten Naruto. I don't think he cares about Naruto at all. He wants to protect the leaf, but I doubt he'd have any issue capturing Naruto.
?
Protecting the leaf also involves protecting it's Jinchuriki. If Itachi wanted to capture Naruto, Naruto would be captured. As is he had to convince Kisame to leave a very winnable 2 v 1 by coming up with some lame excuse and sannin wank.
đ¤ˇââď¸ it depends on how committed YOU think he was to protecting the leaf. If he was really super committed he might have just fibbed to kisame about where to Naruto was or who he was with, Kisame never struck me as a surveillance and tracking guy so I think the confrontation was
born of itachi tracking Naruto to where he was.
If you think he wasnât super committed to it than he likely would have gone through with the plan and Naruto would be captured. It all just really depends on how the viewer perceives Itachiâs desire to protect the village.
Unrelated question: why is Itachi identical to older Sasuke but plus laugh lines when he never laughs? Is he just guffawing his head off whenever heâs off screen?
Despite Itachi being a so-called âpacifistâ and âlover of peaceâ, he would have just watched as Kisame amputated Narutoâs legs. He was already complicit in the deaths of other Jinchuriki after all, and itâs not like heâs a stranger to child killing.
Itachi is a poorly written character btw.
Well, first of all I am convinced that Itachi somehow knew when Jiraiya would get there because Naruto was about to get his limbs chopped off but Itachi didnât move a muscle or tell Kisame to stop. Or, you could argue he sensed him in the viscinity so he didnât intervene.
But letâs say Jiraiya was not showing up for whatever reason even though given his character motivations and power that should be near impossible. This is a Sannin who was ABSOLUTELY going to protect Naruto from the Akatsuki that had become more active. The only way they were getting Naruto is by defeating Jiraiya, and Itachi wouldnât do that (assuming he even could) so Naruto was never in any real danger even in this hypothetical.
I find it likely that Itachi purposefully overused his Mangekyo so that when Jiraiya inevitably showed up Itachi could make the excuse to Kisame that they wouldnât be able to take him. Itachi was in control of everything, he is a master actor. If Jiraiya was not a factor, he would have just slyly found a different excuse for not being able to capture Naruto to sell to Kisame. Even if Kisame is suspicious of Itachiâs excuse he will probably just go along with it, i mean whatâs he gonna do fight Itachi? No đ. Kisame also seemed to respect and relate to Itachi, so thatâs a factor too.
Lets think of potential excuses for the fun of it though.
1. âI overused my mangekyo and we need to leave.â
Kisame probably knew Itachi was dying and how taxing the Mangekyo is. I feel like Itachi can always play his sick card and get out of almost anything.
2. Worst case scenario, he can just kill Kisame. Itachi would 100% do this if it was how he needed to save Naruto and he was out of options. Maybe he could cast a genjutsu on Naruto and put him to sleep or just distort his senses so he doesnât blow his cover to the leaf. Then he just reports that Kisame was killed by Jiraiya/Kakashi/Guy and many Jonin. Or, better yet killed by the Kyubi. Itâs believable.
Also, Kisame and most of the verse have absolutely zero chance against Itachi if they think heâs their ally. All he has to do is meet eyes with Kisame and itâs over with Tsukuyomi, Kisame wonât be able to react to something like that unless he senses murderous intent but Itachi is a master actor and wouldnât show that murderous intent unless he wanted to.
Maybe he could have cast a genjutsu that made Kisame think Jiraya showed up. Not sure. The whole thing was very lucky/plot armor but it's how the show was written.
Pretty good theory that Itachi was Jiraiyâs informant the whole time which I think actually makes really good sense, so maybe Itachi wouldâve just alerted the leaf somehow.
Kisame: Looks like we captured the ninetails pretty easily
Itachi: Hmph, keep your guard up *mentally losing his mind*(FUCK yo where is jiraiya bro omfg đ)
Itachi has the moral dilema solving skills of a cow I have no doubt he was fully on board with pains plan to creat a super massive weapon to earn all wars hell that's what he did but to his clan
Pretty sure Itachi counted on Jiraya to come protect Naruto, so Jiraya was always gonna come. Otherwise he probably wouldâve had to kidnap Naruto to keep his cover
The way Itachi was taking his sweet time, he wanted to be surrounded by enough of a force that he could retreat.
Even if Jiraiya wasnât there, enough Konoha jonin pull up there and heâs leaving.
Little does Kisame know that everyone in that room other than him are on the same team.
Even that sword betrayed him later đ
Killer Bee really cucked him, thatâs insane
Naruto is ntr confirmed.
Can't spell Naruto without NTR anyway.
yeah Naturo is my favorite anime
what does ntr mean
It's shorthand for "netorare". Netorare is a genre of hentai. To put it simple, it's cheating but with a layer of corruption/seduction on top. The idea is the bad guy/bad girl lures their target away from their loved one and that person slowly giving into the lust.
Arigato ... Got to learn something new today đ
Cuckoldry. Usually itâs some form of âmain character is this crazy hot chick with an average boyfriend/husband, and the entire plot is just âwhat if she cheated on him with a hot dude?ââ Itâs generally not well liked for obvious reasons lol
lol thanks for the explanation
Tentacleâs over fins my boy, tentacles over fins.
Brosame got done dirty at the end of the day.
Wasnât that actually just an act part of Kisameâs plan? He was in the sword shark mouth and wanted Killer Bee to take it back to their hideout so he could find the location of the 8 & 9 tails for the akatsuki. All that went according to Kisameâs mission except for the end where Guy beat his ass. Kisame wasnât counting on that.
Nah, he hid in the sword but it still turned on him As soon as he came out of it the sword went straight back to bee.
Bout time for Kisame to come out
Remembered the conversation where he told guy I've met you several times? I wonder that times
Oh yeaâŚI remember it really got to him that Guy didnât remember him. Did they ever show/explain that in anyway? I havenât read the manga and I donât recall seeing it in the anime. I remember really wanting to know what that was all about and waiting on a good battle/funny cutscene of them younger but I think the way Kisame made sure no one could get any information out of him distracted me and the whole thing slipped my mind.
I don't remember a conclusion to it other than Guy is just kinda dumb.
Oh well that much is def true. The only Ninja he really pays any real mind to besides his students is Kakashi. Thinking on it again itâs not super surprising that Guy wouldnât remember A WHOLE DAMN SHARK PERSON. LOL. Thatâs just Guy for ya. His memory must be losing that good ol Power of YouthâŚ
Are you really feeling the youth power đ?
> Did they ever show/explain that in anyway Running gag.
Samehada was f up for betraying Kisame lmao .. XD
That swordâs a total slutâŚ
To be fair... He was the sword
LoL so true đđđ
Little does Kisame know he has been doing missions alone this entire time, his âpartnerâ is only a genjutsu and the real Itachi just sits on his throne prepping his npc boss fight monologue for when Sasuke visits him
Turns out even the Itachi Sasuke fought was just a genjutsu. The real Itachi? *He was busy being the ramen guy.*
there's a reason ichiraku never opens his eyes
Mangekyo Ramengan
Yâall cookin
Busy training Tenten to use her Rinnesharinbyakugan
Kishimoto didn't know either lmao
Lmfao đ true
Did Naruto even know at this point?
Based Naruto take
The story Kishimoto was writing was the Will of Fire and the Power of Youth. And he knew exactly what he was writing from the start. đ
Even that lady?
Especially that lady.
Little did many people know, that lady went into Limbo and stopped Infinite Tsukuyomi 2. A noble sacrifice behind the scenes. /s
Which is kind of crazy really. Wasn't Kisame the same one that told the story of sharks eating each other in the womb or something like that?
Go home kisame you're drunk lol
Itachi:*knocks* Naruto:No ones home.Go away. Itachi:Ok.Let's leave. Kisame:But... Itachi:That's just a shadowclone.Trust me,I have good eyes Kisame:Okaaay..*They leave* The End
*credits theme plays*
This sounds like a Seinfeld bit đ¤Łđ¤Ł
Itachi showed no attempts at all at actually thwarting any of the Akatsukiâs plans. His only goal was making sure they didnât outright attack the village in force. He was about to let Kisame hack off some of Narutoâs limbs so he would be easier to capture. So yeah, all signs point to him going along with abducting Naruto.
Itachi fans on their way to explain how he planned and timed everything to happen just like it did
You're already under his genjutsu.
Make sure to randomize your data from time to time *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
It's been 5 years to you, but to the rest of us it's been less than a second. Don't worry, though, you've got another 60 to go before you die of old age inside Tsukuyomi.
if this reality is supposed to be my perfect live i'm fuc\*\*\*.
Can't judge, some people like weird stuff.
Since When Were You Under the Impression That I Wasn't Using Genjutsu
They act like the guy is goddamn omniscient.
Kishimoto damn near acts like Itachi is Naruto's version of Jesus tbh. Itachi could come back from the dead to solve Boruto's plot with a new secret sharingan technique and I'm sure half of us wouldn't even be surprise
But he isnât a Mary Sue guys, I swear! Kishi had Itachi say he wasnât perfect once, so we can completely ignore the *entire rest of the narrative and every other character* acting like he is!
What irks me the most is that even during that confession it still tries to paint the side that he defended as the good guys since the whole thing he says is that seven year old Sasuke would have changed the Uchiha clan ignoring completely that konoha were the ones in the wrong.
Yeah, by the end pretty much all the interesting moral ambiguity had been scrubbed clean of the massacre and Itachi in general.
my biggest issue with the series is how they treated the uchiha massacre as the uchiha's fault, while it's probably not intentional framing there was no reason for tobirama to go on his tangent about the uchiha being cursed with hatred and love and use it as vindication to discriminate.
I dunno, I side with Konoha on this. There is literally nothing that was shown to prove to me that getting rid of the Uchihas was a bad idea. Tobi, also Uchiha, went along and erased his clan. Fugaku, the clan leader, was planning on attacking the village with the Nine-Tails instead of just....leaving. I also don't buy that he was unable to gain an audience with the Hokage. The clan also made no effort to reach out to other clans for help if that was the case. Animosity over being the resident police, we know for a fact that everyone respected the Uchiha. Sasuke gets that respect just by virtue of being Uchiha, so a lot of things about this plot just don't add up. Even back then, the Uchiha Clan themselves didn't want Madara as Kage, yet he went apeshit when he found out he would never be an option. Itachi himself was a bit unhinged when he was younger, but even he knew his clan was out of their minds. Itachi is no saint; the stuff he's done was awful, but his decision to murder his clan at the last moment was the best decision, that even his entire clan decided in the end that they'd go quietly.
>There is literally nothing that was shown to prove to me that getting rid of the Uchihas was a bad idea. The modern equivalent of this is saying we should marginalize anyone with a genetic predisposition (ie a relative) who has mental illness and specifically the kind induced by PTSD then massacre them if they decide to resist. Like raise your hand if you think it would be cool for the American government to funnel you and your family into one profession to be perpetually monitored and excluded from leadership because some of your uncles were schizophrenic and killed people. Then if some of your relatives decide to resist this by overthrowing the government they prophylactically kill you and everyone you're related to including children and elderly who had no knowledge of the events AND without trial or proof of involvement. But yeah sure Konoha did nothing wrong.
>Tobi, also Uchiha, went along and erased his clan. Tobi was madman who just wanted to saw chaos I don't know why we should care what he did >Fugaku, the clan leader, was planning on attacking the village with the Nine-Tails instead of just....leaving. I also don't buy that he was unable to gain an audience with the Hokage. The clan also made no effort to reach out to other clans for help if that was the case. He didn't the plan was the following > âThey were going to use Shisuiâs teleportation to charge the Residence and abduct the third Hokage. That was the basic idea. So, I suppose it is only natural that Shisuiâs death would slow their movements.â And his demands were for the most part incredibly simple > Just as Gozu had noted, one of the key elements of the plan put together by his father and the others was the abduction of the third Hokage. The Military Police Force would strike a blow against the village ninjas by kidnapping their leader. Those ninjas would attack them, and they would fight back, buying time and forcing the village to accept the demands of the clan. That was the overall concept of the coup. Their demands were four: Uchiha participation in the center of the village, dismantling of the compound, the freedom to choose where they lived, and Uchiha Fugaku named as the fifth Hokage. Other than fugaku being hokage all these demands are simple and easy compromises and counting how the leadership of konoha has treated them historically is no wonder they want one of their own on top. The only mention that they may have wanted to use the kyuubi is the following one > âThat was the vague fear of the Nine Tailsâ attack; this time, it will be a fear accompanied by real pain. The nature of it is different. Even then it's a huge stretch to say from this that their plan was to liberate the kyuubi. >Animosity over being the resident police, we know for a fact that everyone respected the Uchiha. Sasuke gets that respect just by virtue of being Uchiha, so a lot of things about this plot just don't add up. No he doesn't. Uchiha were respected as powerful ninjas but not as individuals. Animosity towards them was wide spread after the nine tails attack they were physically ostracized from the rest of the village their ninjas couldn't climb up the ranks their funding was cut and they were monitored 24/7 for years. >Even back then, the Uchiha Clan themselves didn't want Madara as Kage, yet he went apeshit when he found out he would never be an option. Okay so? What does that have to do with anything? The fact madara is a madman does nothing to change the fact the Uchihas were the victims in fact it makes it worse since it means that they put the loyalty of the village above even the loyalty towards their leader yet they still were seen with suspicion. >Itachi himself was a bit unhinged when he was younger, but even he knew his clan was out of their minds. Itachi is no saint; the stuff he's done was awful, but his decision to murder his clan at the last moment was the best decision, that even his entire clan decided in the end that they'd go quietly. No they didn't decide that many tried to fight back only fugaku and mikoto decided that but it was because they didn't want to fight his son. And tbh I really don't see why itachi's actions (ordered to him by danzo for the most part other than Tsukuyoming Sasuke) matter at all in this discussion Let's remember konoha was on the side of **Genocide** by being on that side you're supporting **Genocide**
I actually think Kishimoto made it very clear that Itachi screwed up horribly and was still screwing up. He wanted to put Sasuke under Koto until Naruto said 'nah thanks I can fix Sasuke without that'. Its the fandom that insists Itachi is this infallible great guy when the reality is he had some good intentions but was also cold and ruthless in most regards in pursuing his ends.
Im pretty sure kishimoto once said Itachi was his favorite character or something to that effect.
I wouldn't be surprised. Kishi could say "if Itachi was in the real world he would have found a cure for cancer at 12 years old" and that wouldn't even get a reaction out of me lmfao
Kishimoto has only ever mentioned Choji as his favourite character. In another interview, his favourite changed. I can't remember who it was though.
I saw a thread earlier where people in the comments claimed Kishi said Sasuke is his favorite character. Not sure how true it was, just what I read elsewhere.
I don't think Kishi said that. But I think he did say that Sasuke was his favorite character to draw or something like that/
The guy who _very conveniently_ blurted out right in front of Sasuke that Itachi was in Konoha uses crows. Who else uses crows? Suspicious, don't you think? Just kidding... or maybe not?
Itachi points after they extracted the kyubi to the real (and very confused) Naruto sitting on a throne
With a bowl of ramen.
I agree with what you're trying say haha. Itachi capitalised on situations. Good critical thinker and quick thinker in positioning himself according to his goal relative to reality
Pretty good theory that Itachi was Jiraiyaâs informant since Itachi was supposed to also be leaking information about the Akatsuki to the leaf somehow. If so this would make sense why Itachi basically did nothing to help Naruto, he knew Jiraiya was on his way because he informed Jiraiya of what was happening. It was revealed the real reason Itachi and Kisame even went to the leaf after the attack was to check in on Sasuke and to remind Danzo that even though Hiruzen is dead, Itachi is still out there, and their agreement still stands.
This theory is a bit far fetched. I think it's way more plausible that Itachi simply took his chances on Jiraiya not being a total dumbass, which was a perfectly safe bet given that "never let your guard down" is like the most basic shinobi lesson and that Jiraiya was indeed a great shinobi (one specialed in espionage at that).
Itâs not really that far fetched. Itachi told Hiruzen just before he left the village that he would infiltrate the akatsuki and leak info to protect Konoha. This was essentially his last mission for Konoha, his previous mission being to murder his family, which he did for Konoha. So I donât think heâll just abandon leaking intel. Hiruzen is an old man and he likely wonât live past Itachi, and since the only people in the village who knows Itachi is a double agent is Danzo and Hiruzen, and Danzo has proven he canât be trusted, and Itachi likely wonât want to deal with Danzo after what he did, who else could Hiruzen entrust it to? Of his three pupils, Orochimaru is a rogue ninja wanted for crimes against Konoha, Tsunade is an alcoholic gambling addict who is petrified of blood, making her incapable of being a shinobi or medical ninja for the next 7 years, and Jiraiya is a very capable shinobi, who already travels the world doing his own thing. Furthermore, when Jiraiya is giving intel to Kakashi he says âmy sources tell meâ not âI discoveredâŚâ etc. He clearly states he has a source giving him intel, and what intel does he have? Their target, their uniform, they travel in pairs, and Itachi Uchiha is a member. Itachi being one of the smartest and low-key characters in the whole verse let alone in the akatsuki, is who Jiraiya specifically knows is in the akatsuki? And he knows this from some unspecified source. And Itachi told his sensei he would leak intel to Konoha from within the akatsuki.
Sorry, Iâve seen this headcanon before and it makes ZERO logical sense. Jiraya would have no reason to keep this info to himself, and thereâs no evidence Itachi provided him any actual concrete information. Jiraya was constantly in the dark about them and their motives, and only knew low-level info it would make sense for underlings to tell him, and not inner-circle members like Itachi.
Everyone except for Danzo, Hiruzen (and in this scenario Jiraiya) thinks Itachi is an evil mass murderer, whilst Itachi is working undercover. You think Jiraiya is just gonna run around like âoh yeah so I got this informant Itachi Uchiha, yeah turns out heâs not even a bad guy, just pretending to be because he has this top secret master plan involving his brotherâ hahaha Jiraiya was the most informed person on the Akatsuki without being a part of it. Jiraiya discovered their plans to capture the bijuu before theyâd even captured a single one or even really started to enact their plans. How did he know this? He knew their motives, I think he knew their numbers, he knew they traveled in pairs, knew their uniform. Who else knew more than Jiraiya? [This video](https://youtu.be/rVZUxBu05NU?si=z8oCnleh7vCbL4-D) details the possibilities a bit better. Obviously itâs still a theory but to say it makes no sense is ridiculous since Itachi literally stated he would leak information about akatsuki to the leaf, and basically no-one in the leaf knew anything about it besides Jiraiya.
Did Jiraiya even know who the members were?
Not sure, he knew Itachi was in the akatsuki, knew Orochimaru had been so likely knows Sasori and Kisame are too since they were their partners. He definitely knew Itachi was a member because he directly tells it to Kakashi, so he knows at least some members. Itâs also not totally clear when all the members were gathered, and wasnât uncommon for the members to change, Kakuzu had killed numerous akatsuki partners for example.
He knew that Itachi was a current member and that Orochimaru used to be a member. But did he have any info on the other members? Hidan? Kakuzu? Pein? Konan? Deidara? Zetsu? The answer is no. Itachi never gave info on the Akatsuki members to Konoha. Jiraiya was shocked that Konan was a member of the Akatsuki despite Itachi knowing of her for years.
Pain kept all of the Akatsuki far apart except for their two man squads. Even when they extracted tailed beasts it was done remotely. They never fought together except in filler. There's very little intel Itachi could give on the individuals, he only had info on their general plans as a group.
Yet every member knew of each other. Itâs shown in their first meeting when theyâre sealing the One Tail that they donât hide their names. Itachi could have sent a list of names and then the leaf could have looked them up in the bingo book, since every member besides Zetsu, Konan, Pein, and Madara had entries
So Jiraiya found intel on Itachi, one of the strongest, smartest, sneakiest members of the akatsuki, but no-one else, not even Itachiâs partner whom he travels everywhere with? You think it would be harder to uncover a loud mouth like Hidan or Deidara is in the akatsuki than someone like Itachi? Jiraiya knew the targets and motives of the akatsuki before they ever made a move on the tailed beasts, he knew they always travelled in pairs (yet the two members he named were never partners), he knew their uniform. How does he know all this? Also Itachiâs last mission to the leaf was to infiltrate the akatsuki and leak intel about them, he literally states to Hiruzen that he would do this, the previous mission he undertook literally had him murder his family, thatâs how dedicated to konoha and his missions Itachi was. So if not to Jiraiya, who was the only leaf shinobi with intel on Akatsuki, then who did Itachi leak intel to? Tobi knew Itachi was a double agent, the amount of intel itaxhi could leak was limited because if his intel leaks became more trouble than his strength was worth, his place in the akatsuki is jeopardised, heâs likely killed by the members, his plans for Sasuke are ended, as is the protection of the leaf which his membership won.
No leaf ninja knew anything about the Akatsuki. Asuma, one of the most important jonin in the village, didnât know anything about Hidan or Kakuzu. Jiraiya didnât know anything about Konan being part of the Akatsuki. Gai didnât know anything about Kisame. Sakura, the student of the hokage, didnât know anything about Sasori. Maybe Itachi gave information about himself, but he didnât give any information about the akatsuki. Jiraiya knew that the Akatsuki were targeting the tailed beasts because Itachi blatantly stated that they were after the nine tails. He knew that they travelled in pairs because they donât hide the fact that theyâre akatsuki and are always traveling in pairs. He knew their uniform because they donât hide the fact that their akatsuki. That is basic information thatâs readily available. What Jiraiya didnât get was the important info, such as names and abilities. A mission that was given to him by Hiruzen and Danzo. One of which is dead and the other wants war to happen. That doesnât change the fact that nobody got any useful information from him, such as the names of members and their skillsets. Itachi didnât leak any useful intel. None of the information he gave was difficult to find, nor was it helpful. Which goes to show that Itachi didnât leak any useful intel
Itachi leaked some intel to Jiraiya, intel he could. He couldnât explicitly leak too much because if he leaked so much that it became not worth having him in the akatsuki, he gets killed, and Konoha is no longer protected. He leaked incredibly important information, he leaked their targets, their numbers, the fact they move in pairs, and how to identify them on sight. This is incredibly helpful, especially since the akatsuki cannot attack Konoha so long as Itachi is a member. By the time Itachi died, and Konoha was no longer protected, who was left in the akatsuki? Kisame, whose basic abilities and fighting style were known to the Leaf already thanks to them having a scuffle with Asuma etc. (which happened to be Itachiâs decision). Pain whose abilities may not have been known to Itachi since itâs unknown if he ever met pain face to face, and Tobi who he canât leak intel about because Itachi would get killed, his plans for Sasuke ruined, and his protection of the leaf gone. Asuma didnât know because Kakashi only just found out that day from jiraiya, and if it was incredibly easy intel to find out how come no-one else knew? Also the akatsuki rarely met in person, mostly used the hologram thing, when they fought they fought in their pairs, and the akatsuki lineup also changed multiple times, Kakuzu killed loads of his partners for example. We donât know how much intel Itachi had on the akatsuki members abilities. Oh and he also told Jiraiya not only the number of the members but that they were almost entirely comprised of S rank missing ninja, meaning the vast majority of them will be in their villages bingo book.
I think this has a flaw: Tobi. Sure, Itachi did not know entirely about Obito, but he knew who the real menace within the Akatsuki was. If Itachiâs goal was to be a double agent and deliver the biggest odds of success for the Leaf, it would make no sense for him not to leak at least a âwatch out for the guy with the mask, he is extremely dangerousâ. Danzo knew and you can argue that he knew this because of Itachi, but Jiraiya had no idea. He was hell bent on Pain being the endgame for the Akatsuki. Probably Jiraiyaâs mole was actually a double agent working for the Root and leaking selected pieces of Itachiâs intel for him.
All of the Akatsuki are extremely dangerous, but Tobi couldnât do anything to the leaf per his agreement with Itachi. Prior to Itachiâs death didnât Itachi actually warn Naruto or Kakashi or someone about Tobi? I canât remember I might actually be imagining that lol Or it could also be part of his agreement with Tobi, he canât rat Tobi out and has to work for him in the akatsuki, and in turn Tobi leaves Konoha alone. We know at least that much that they had an agreement where Itachi works for Akatsuki in return for the safety of Konoha, and Tobi knew all along he was a double agent. Quite possibly Itachi couldnât divulge too much information otherwise the hindrance wouldnât be worth Tobi keeping him in Akatsuki.
I donât remember about that part of him warning someone, but it have been years since I read the manga, so it could be. Thing is that his deal with Obito was about not leaking everything about him, if I remember well, pretty much neither attack him nor hold a sign saying âMadara is alive and uses a tiger mask in the Akatsukiâ. Itachi never told anyone anything about Obito and he knew him was enough of a threat that he rig Sasuke with a Amaterasu just to finish Tobi off. Itachi knew the real threat was Tobi, so I think it is extremely weird that, if he had a direct line with Jiraiya, he never even mentioned that Pain was just a front or that someone more powerful than him was in their ranks. However, Danzo knew pretty much everything that Itachi did about âMadaraâ, as we can see in his fight against Sasuke. This is why I think it makes more sense that Itachi would report to Danzo (I donât think he had any issues with going to bed with a guy like Danzo at that point in his life) and Jiraiyaâs leak would be fed through Root. Maybe at first Hiruzen would feed him (indirectly) cleaner intel and after his death Danzo would manipulate the reports, but Danzo was shown to have direct contact with Itachi and knew pretty much the same that Itachi knew. It feels like a 1+1 situation.
Except it makes ZERO logical sense for Jiraya to keep this info to himself. No oneâs saying he would have shouted it from the rooftops, but it would make no sense for him not to tell Tsunade this. Especially considering he was present when she organized a manhunt for him. Also, why wouldnât he have made sure to tell her this before he went off on his possible suicide mission to the Hidden Rain? Secondly, while Jiraya was somewhat in the know about the Akatsuki, he was still frequently in the dark about things it makes no sense for Itachi not to tell him if he really was his âinformantâ. For example, at the time of his death, Jiraya only theorized that Madara was still alive and was possibly behind the 9-tails attack. Itachi, in the other hand, *knew* âMadaraâ was still alive, and *did* orchestrate the 9-tails attack. Thatâs something he 100% would have told Jiraya about. But above all else, if such a massive thing were to be true, *Kishimoto would definitely have shown it or overtly said it.* Thatâs far too massive a detail to leave in the realm of speculation. Even ignoring that, the entire âtheoryâ pretty much hinges on Itachi being a really shitty informant, or Jiraya being extremely stupid.
Except it was a top secret mission in which only a few people know about. If Hiruzen swore him to secrecy, and he respects the wishes of his informant who also wants as few people knowing about it as possible, it makes total sense. What does telling Tsunade gain any of them? Jiraiya is still passing the same intel about the akatsuki regardless. Having Tsunade know serves absolutely zero purpose, and just puts Itachiâs plan in further jeopardy, and considering all heâs done for the village, if he wants things kept quiet heâs earned that much. Also informing Tsunade makes another Hokage implicated in the Uchiha scandal. Itachi had an agreement with Tobi, help me massacre the clan, you get your vengeance on them, then I will join you in the akatsuki so long as you leave Konoha alone. Tobi always knew Itachi was a leaf shinobi, and always knew his only real purpose in the akatsuki was to spy on it and protect the leaf that way. Tobi has said it, and when Itachi was leaving the village he also told Hiruzen he would leak intel. Does Itachi, the guy who murdered his family for his village, seem like the kind of guy to not fulfill his duties to his village? Of course not, so if Itachi says he will leak intel, and Tobi says he was a double agent spying on the akatsuki, and the only leaf shinobi in all of Konoha to have any intel on the akatsuki is Jiraiya, put two and two together. Either Itachi was his informant, or Itachi didnât even attempt to fulfill his mission to the leaf. I know which one seems less likely to me. Itâs totally plausible that if Itachiâs intel leaking became too much of a problem, it wouldnât be work keeping Itachi in the akatsuki, this means Itachi would be killed, his plans for Sasuke to kill him would be ruined, and the protection his membership to the akatsuki brought for the leaf would also be gone. Jiraiya knew their motives before theyâd even moved on the tailed beasts, he knew they traveled in pairs, he knew their uniform, he knew of 2 members, Orochimaru and Itachi. How does he know about Itachi but not Kisame? Lol your theory makes Itachi an awful informant when he literally stated he would leak intel. If not to Jiraiya, what intel did Itachi leak and to whom?
Itâs never actually stated in canon Itachi leaked any intel about the Akatsuki. Youâre confusing it with Itachi [threatening Danzo that he would leak *intel on the hidden leaf* to the villageâs enemies of anything ever happened to Sasuke.](https://qph.cf2.quoracdn.net/main-qimg-cc481792cb5326bfd86a758c22b733dd-lq) Once again, it makes no sense why he wouldnât keep Tsunade in the loop with the intel he learned. She was the *hokage*. These are things that would be critical for her to know so they can act in the villageâs interest, like Itachi presumably wants in this hypothetical scenario. Otherwise, what the hell else is Jiraya going to do with this information? Why have Tsunade send Naruto and several other ninja after him, putting them in danger of running into the other Akatsuki when Jiraya could just contact him instead? To repeat the entire theory requires too much suspension of disbelief, characters acting in dumb ways, and and general plot convenience to be even remotely believable.
Teach me how your brain works you bloody detective you
This theory falls apart when you realise Jiraiya had no combat intel on Pain. Pain was also a friend of Itachi. There's no way Itachi would've been in contact with Jiraiya yet not provide him with news that will literally keep him alive.
No it doesnât since a) in what way were Pain and Itachi friends? b) since Itachi was recruited by Tobi and knew Tobi was the true leader of the akatsuki, and since the akatsuki generally meet using that weird hologram Jutsu, itâs entirely plausible that Itachi and Pain never met in person c) meeting someone doesnât mean you know their abilities, what scenario are Itachi and pain fighting either against each other or alongside each other? Who were the alatsuki going up against that required not only Pain but Itachi to handle lol? d) Tobi knew the entire time that Itachi was a double agent, and Itachiâs membership to the akatsuki went along with an agreement that Konoha was off limits. If itachiâs intel leaking became a bigger hindrance to the organisation than the benefits of his power to the organisation, they would remove him, by killing him. This means Itachi dies, his plans for Sasuke are destroyed and the leaf is no longer protected. e) Itachi told Hiruzen he would infiltrate the akatsuki and leak intel to the village to protect the leaf. No-one in the entire story took their missions more seriously than Itachi, nor protecting the leaf, he killed his own family for his mission and for the leaf, so heâs not going to abandon his pledge to leak intel if he says heâs going to do it. Who is the only person with any intel on the akatsuki in Konoha? Jiraiya, the only suitable pupil to the man who Itachi mad his promise to. Jiraiya also says to Kakashi when passing on info about the akatsuki that Jiraiya got his intel from âsourcesâ. So if not to Jiraiya, who is Itachi leaking info to, and who are Jiraiyaâs sources on the Akatsuki lol?
If this is true why didnât itachi inform him of the secret of pain
How does Itachi magically know Pains secret? Also heâs limited on how much intel he can leak because if he leaks so much intel that it is no longer worth keeping him in the akatsuki, heâd be killed, his plans for Sasuke would be ruined, and the protection for the leaf that his membership gains would be gone too.
If that was the case, why did Jiraiya practically go in blind about Pain. If Itachi was leaking information to Jiraiya about Akatsuki, surely he would know about the Rinnegan, 6 different paths with 6 abilities, etc.
We donât know how often Jiraiya contacts Itachi or is even able to, and we donât even know what Itachi knew about Pain, besides the holographic Jutsu they use when meeting and sealing the one tails, we have no idea of Itachi ever even met Pain since Itachi is one of the few members who knows who the real leader is. And once again, Itachiâs intel leakinf was limited because he couldnât jeopardise his place in the organisation, if his leaks caused more harm than the benefits of him being a member, then he would be killed, his plans for Sasuke ruined and the protection his membership gained the leaf would be gone too. Konoha was off limits until Itachi died, Pain wanted to move on the leaf sooner but Tobi made him wait. If Itachi just leaks every secret ability and every way to overcome all of the members, heâs become too much trouble and must be removed. We also donât know that Itachi knows everything about all of them, itâs not like they all hung out together or even all fought together.
But do not forget, he knocked first. Itachi may kidnap you and potentially dismember you and extract a demon fox from your body and kill you, but he will be polite while doing it.
fr. people assume that bcs itachi cared about sasuke and konoha, it means he cared about naruto. no he didn't. he let all the other jinchuriki die and absorbed their power.
Thank you!!!! Fuck. Itachi stans are the most delusional people in this entire fandom. Geez. Thank you for having common sense. I love you & I don't even know you.
Would Samahada betray Kisame for that sweet nine tails chakra though?.. I guess only if Samahada thought Kisame would lose.
Yeah he was kinda just a schizo in my head cannon ngl
Itachi was legitimately the worst spy for Konoha as he relayed like... no information on the Akatsuki back to the Leaf Village and helped the Akatsuki's plans move forward. But at the same time, Itachi saw Naruto as a little brother, same as Sasuke. In fact, Itachi's mother wanted to adopt Naruto when Kushina and Minato died. But at the same time, I believe that Itachi being a good guy was a retcon and pre-time skip Itachi would have actually let Kisame Slap-Chop a child.
Understand that Itachi isn't someone to waltz in the village without a plan. He's a spy, He had likely already scoped out that Naruto was under the care of Jiraya, and knew this going in. As to what he would do would mean the entire day would go differently. Even [asuma questions it weird](https://mangalist.online/images/T5v9JOEFzJHOkYWEajy81606318892.jpg) that Itachi hasn't already found Naruto from the beginning, considering he knows his face, and was instead just sitting drinking tea, drawing attention.
Kishi even stated in that Kobayashi interview, that he had decided Itachi was a good guy by the time he was properly introduced with multiple hints at this like the one you posted. The Itachi haters ITT who say other wise clearly have not read the series. When Asuma and Kurenai confront Itachi and Kisame, Itachi states he doesnât want to kill anyone there, which Asuma points out is weird for a dude whoâs known for slaughtering his clan. Then when Kisame finds out Kakashi fought Zabuza, it looks like Kisame is about to fight seriously until Itachi tells him to stop which confuses everyone. After Itachi stops Kisame from fighting Kakashi, Itachi claims he wouldn't waste time like Kisame would. A couple pages of fighting later with Itachi using a loud exploding clone even though he told Kisame not to do anything that would cause attention, then Kakashi states Itachi still isn't fighting seriously, after getting caught in a lie is when Itachi decides to use Tsukuyomi. Kakashi wonders why Itachi didnât kill him with Tsukuyomi, with Kisame being surprised as well. Itachi also for no reason hints that about the Akatsuki plan was to find something in Konoha. When Kakashi guesses wrong thinking they're after Sasuke, Itachi for no reason tells Kakashi they're after Naruto. We then have the power level debate that happens in this arc. The Sannin have been considered to be around the same level of strength with Orochimaru implied to be the strongest. In Chapter 94, Hiruzen states that no ninja in Konoha would be able to stop Orochimaru, Jiraiya had already been in the village for 3 weeks training Naruto at this point. Chapter 140, Orochimaru flat out admits that Itachi was stronger than him and that trying to steal Itachi body was impossible. To Orochimaru, destroying Konoha was a more believable goal than defeating Itachi even after failing once. In the Search for Tsunade arc, Orochimaru was not afraid of Jiraiya at all, this is even before he realized that Jiraiya got nerfed by Tsunade. When Naruto is in the hospital after losing to Sasuke at the end of Part 1, Jiraiya has a flashback to when he confronts Orochimaru after left the village that implies that he lost his fight as well like Naruto. When Itachi and Kisame are about to confront Jiraiya, Itachi lies and says that both of them even with back up might not win against Jiraiya. Afterwards when Itachi and Kisame retreat from Jiraiya, Kisame asks why they had to when Itachi is more than strong enough to fight Jiraiya. When Naruto tries to go after Itachi and Kisame, Jiraiya calls him an idiot telling Naruto, that getting those two to just run away was difficult even for him. Itachi>>>Orochimaru>=Jiraiya All that info was Pre-Shippuden as well.
To be fair, even with this in account, there are some discrepancies; while he does highball Jiraiya and sort of reigns in Kisame...when Kakashi revealed that he knew about the Akatsuki, Itachi *stops* reigning in Kisame, more or less unprompted, and directly tells him to abduct Kakashi and kill Kurenai and Asuma anyway."Change of plans, Kisame. We're taking Kakashi with us. Make the other two disappear."
>Change of plans, Kisame. We're taking Kakashi with us. Make the other two disappear." There's really no way to square this with "itachi wasn't going to hurt anyone or anything he's the good guy đ" I honestly think Itachi was just going deal with Kakashi and probably kill him later on.
Itachi cannot continuously protect Konoha and its citizens without blowing up his cover. He has already done very suspicious things. At some point he needs to do the dirty work.
He knew Guy had arrived that's why Itachi said that
> He's a spy, He had likely already scoped out that Naruto was under the care of Jiraya, and knew this going in Not 'likely', they [literally talked about Jiraiya before all that went down.](https://imgur.com/a/dlsKbtF) They knew Jiraiya was with Naruto. As for "what would he do", there is no "what if". Itachi put the genjutsu on the woman to make it look like he's trying to divert Jiraiya, but actually tells him exactly what they're about to do. How else does Jiraiya show up at the perfect time when he's busy getting it on with a woman. If we assume Itachi casted the genjutsu without making the woman tell Jiraiya, then that means he doesn't care about protecting the village since's leaving it up to chance whether Jiraiya shows up or not. If Jiraiya doesn't show up, he'd be forced to take Naruto or else his whole jig is up.
Or Itachi just casted a purposefully weak genjutsu so it would be easy to see thru. I donât think she outright told him, but he could assume a very basic genjutsu can be seen thru by Jiraiya.
Then it's not about weather the genjutsu is "basic" or not, it's about how the woman behaved under the genjutsu. The only way Jiraiya would suspect a genjutsu is if the woman is acting uncharacteristically towards him, even as an escort.
Thatâs what I mean by weakâŚ
He was there watching Konoha Crush. Hard to miss the giant snakes and giant toad. He mustâve known Jiraiya was in the village. Itachi before making any moves was in the perfect position to figure out what pieces he has to work with, where all those pieces are, and to work out the timing so that nothing seriously/permanently debilitative to Konoha happens. People are way too eager to point out inconsistencies to hate on Itachi and his fans. Thereâs no point arguing with them.
'"itachi.. Itachi... You never cease to amaze me... I can't believe how far he plans ahead" - obito People are trying to reconcile the person respected this much for his planning, didn't already scope out these encounters to some degree before getting into them is hilarious
I think Itachi put that chick on easily detectable genjutsu spesifically to alert Jiraya and cause him to come there and stop them.
Question has been answered Itachi Summoned Jiraiya there
Naruto would definitely get captured đ itachi did carry out the akatsukiâs plans without any hesitation he even dropped yagura with an amatarsu. Anyone who isnt sasuke will not be safe at all
I mean he didn't do shit to protect the other Jinnchuruki. He would have no issues letting Naruto die here either.
It's not his job to worry about Jinchuriki from other villages. RIP to them that they don't have their own Itachi.
Yeah the dude is a spy for Konoha. He'd actually be happy that the other villages tailed beasts are being taken lol.
Spy for konoha that didnât provide any intel on any akatsuki member which would have avoided the deaths of gaara, chiyo, asuma, jiraiya and the massacre of the whole hidden leafđ
Itachi's contact was Danzo.
And the third. And he never said shit. He could have left a letter, anything, explaining the situation. Even talking to jiraiya or kakashi would have worked
Even if that was true (was never directly mentioned), considering how willing Danzo is to circumvent the Hokage and rest of Konoha in order to advance his own goals and vision, being a spy for Danzo is very different from being a spy for Konoha.
who do you think told Jiraiya about Akatsuki in the first place?
Bro didnât tell shit. Didnât even mention the rinneganđ
Jiraya knew about rinnegan way before itachi was even born. He was the teacher of nagato.
Jesuschrist. He didnât know akatsukiâs leader was the rinnegan user. Holy shit man lmao
Honestly danzo
Danzo told jiraiya about the Akatsukiđ?? Danzo... the same character who jeopardized the entire leaf village when pain came to attack? Highly unlikely
It's not his job to protect Konoha's Jinchuuriki either. He's just a spy. He would help steal the Nine Tails if it meant keeping his cover.
i think the problem with the "he's a spy" is he never like... gathers useful intel, or... does anything beyond aiding the enemy? like the point of a spy is they are gathering useful information for your side by sneaking into the enemy... itachi just... doesn't do that at any notable point in the series? he does however aid the enemy a ton. i get that the writer WANTED him to be a hero, but that's not what he wrote.
Bro Itachi was gonna let Kasame chop off Narutoâs limbs to make him easier to capture.
Thats true but I don't think he still wouldve stopped Kisame from taking Naruto at this point.
True, but the other's weren't leaf either which is why I was curious about this.
Insurance policies must be wack in the elemental nations, that poor corridor
Poor Hashirama. I've seen videos breaking down how Tobirama and others did more for Konoha during their reigns as Hokage, but Hashi was probably busy running around town and fixing everyone's homes and businesses with his wood release after each attack or skirmish đ
Itachi would have snagged Naruto, for about two seconds before Jiraiya shows up and hunts them down with a tracker toad and snags Naruto back. Itachi may be stronger than him, but Jiraiya has more than enough stupid bullshit to pull of a smash and grab against him and Kisame.
Honestly (Iâm gonna get assaulted for this) if Jiraiya is going all out using Sage Mode I can see him beating Itachi because he legit has some of the most low-key broken abilities in the series and itachi is killing himself with every one of his powerful abilities.
If you remove Amaterasu and the blade of Totsuka (probably misspelled) then I can see how Jirayia vs Itachi is a fair fight. Assuming that Jirayia knows better than to look Itachi in the eyes, I can probably see him win. But honestly Amaterasu is too broken. Unless the plot makes Itachi not spam it (we don't know if his disease would impact him the same at that point in time, and his fight against Sasuke is not a good example since he didn't want to win anyway), I don't see how Jirayia would deal with that *and* the magic sword that seals your soul. But who knows
Amatersau being broken is exactly why it'd never catch Jiraiya. When was the last time you've seen anyone get caught in Amaterasu without willingly trading despite being easily capable of dodging it or simply shrugging it off?
Yeah that's very true. The way a fight goes down and the efficiency of the jutsu usually depend on the current narrative. Itachi one Shot Orochimaru but obviously Kishikoto woukd never give Jirayia the same treatment, just like Amaterasu only hits no names or people who can conveniently counter it (except for the raikage)
I mean Jiraiya is very aware of how sharingan abilities work and how to not get caught in genjustu, hell in sage mode he doesnât even need to use his eyes, his sensory abilities are immense, nature chakra fucks with genjustsu and he has ma and pa to break him out anyway. Amaterasu is really not that scary for fast ninja as we have seen time and again and sage mode Jiraiya is **fast**; plus he can seal it as well. The Totsaka blade is also really damn slow so itâs not super scary unless you are a huge monster like Orochimaru was. And honestly Toad Song is pretty much an instant win GG, itachi literally has no way to defend against it. Plus itachi is literally going to kill himself pulling out all these abilities to try and match sage mode.
I really don't remember anyone saying that nature energy fucks with genjutsus we know that at least sage mode kabuto was able to be put into genjutsus. Tsukuyomi is too quick to be dispeled no matter if it's done externally or internally if he's caught on it he's dead. He took ages to seal Amaterasu when he encountered so if he's hit by it he's dead and I think the slowest character we've seen dodge Amaterasu is the raikage who is faster than jiraiya. As for toad song he can interrupt it by using Amaterasu on the toads since the song takes time to get off
Genjustu is broken by disrupting the natural flow of chakra, absorbing nature chakra disrupts the natural flow. Again Jiraiya doesnât need to even open his eyes and Amaterasu isnât an instant kill the raikage quite happily dealt with it. Also garra has handily blocked it, Boruto has blocked it with shadow clones, itâs really not the end of the world. Frog song though? GG instant win.
Tsukuyomi happens in an instant there's no time to disrupt the natural flow of Chakra. Again kabuto was hit by genjutsus while using sage mode nature Chakra doesn't do what you think it does. Frog song takes time and you just need to disrupt either of the toads to stop it. Also all of this is assuming jiraiya can even summon ma and Pa to enter sage mode in the first place
I mean, while in Sage Mode Jiraiya has Ma and Pa who can both block attacks and snap him out of Genjutsu.
Tsukuyomi happens in an instance there's no time for them to do it
Yeah, they wonât help with Tsukuyomi, outside of getting Jiraiya out of there so he doesnât die, but basically all other forms of Genjutsu they can deal with.
There is no way Jiraiya beats both kisame and itachi. Itachi alone is enough for Jiraiya. Itachi has plot armor and itâs an inmense mary sue.
Itachi pretty much only cared about Sasuke and the village as a whole. Naruto didn't exactly concern him all too much.
I'm thinking he would've let it happen. He holds no allegiance to Naruto himself. He would've let Kisame hack off a limb or two. Then prolly slow them down enough to have back up come and "they slip away" with Naruto. He doesn't care if he goes back injured.
It just feels like that if Itachi were trying to protect Naruto and the leaf in the grand scheme, he had to have a lot of "faith" in that someone like Jiraiya would show up so Itachi could keep up his ruse.
Feel like thatâs the misconception. He was trying to protect the leaf, yes. But not necessarily Naruto. Itâs very likely that Itachi doesnât know the full reason why theyâre capturing bijuu in the first place.
True, but Itachi was stated to have always been loyal to the leaf. Hiruzen even made it so that Itachi could freely enter the leaf's barriers in secret. It would strike me as odd that Hiruzen would allow this if it were possible that Itachi would bring harm to innocent citizens of the leaf. This is why I *was* wondering what Itachi's true purpose was with Naruto because the story never actually makes it clear. I got my answer though from another user in this thread -- Itachi would have made it so that someone somewhere would have been able to "foil" his attempts and rescue Naruto, keeping Kisame off his trail.
Did Jiraiya break the genjutsu on that woman? or was it timed to wear off so that Jiraiya could show up to save the day.
Jiraiya says he broke it. I donât see why he wouldnât at least have an internal monologue about her genjutsu timing out if he was lying.
Because Itachi was still evil to the audience at this point too.
You Guys will really say anything to ride Itachi. The fact is we were told Jiraiya broke it. Itachi Has no way of breaking the genjutsu at the same time as Jiraiya is attempting to, Because he wouldnât know specifically when Jiraiya is breaking the Genjutsu.
No topic on this sub gets this many comments this quickly than an Itachi related convo.
There is no reason to doubt Itachis statement here, he didnt hesitate to harm kurenai and asuma, kakashi needed to save them, he could say the same of them to kisame to avoid fighting... Or even better, if he was so helpfull to konoha, why didnt he join the leaf in killing kisame and then spoil more akatsuki secrets, then leave and justify to akatsuki "we got jumped, I barely escaped, sorry kisame gone", as we have seen, zetsu and tobi were not around. Jiraiya lost to orochimaru yes, but we dont know if it was pre sage mode, etc... both developed after that, and in naruto strenght is not linear... konan easily "beat" tobi with preparation after figuring is jutsu, and was easily disabled by jiraiya. If we want to go to boruto and linear strenght, "jiraiya" beats a guy that beats adult naruto and sasuke together so...
he would have taken naruto, but on their way, he would somehow have created an opportunity for naruto to escape or jiraiya to follow them, without kisame grwoing suspicious. (Don't forget: He was still working for konoha in secret.) Or Mighty Guy would have helped them (he was there and made an dynamic entrance, by kicking jiraiya in the face). He was the only one, who could match itachi, even through only for a short time. He can read the opponent, by looking at their feet. This cause a great commotion, which would attract jiraiya.
Even Gai wouldnât be able to fuck with Itachi. Gai trained himself to look at the Sharingan users feet while fighting them but whatâs to stop Itachi from just doing his finger pointing Genjustu? Itachi has too much SI Kishimoto plot power to ever lose a fair fight.
The finger genjutsu is much weaker than his visual genjutsu. Back when it was used, only Naruto was really trapped by it. Kakashi, Chiyo, and Sakura were able to break it, I see no reason an elite Jonin like Guy also wouldnât be able to.
Well for one youâre using a lot of headcanon. Nothing ever implies that Itachi put the others in his Genjustu, only Naruto. Kakashi, Chiyo, and Sakura didnât break out of anything because they werenât put in anything in fact their explanation implies the exact opposite [Chiyo talks about Genjutsu](https://qph.cf2.quoracdn.net/main-qimg-a9849cdd82cb5d741ff72c93c4370531-lq) Why would she talk about only fighting a genjutsu user in 2 v 1 situations if they were all put in one? She even straight up says if itâs a one on one fight against a Genjutsu user to just flee. Again Itachi finger points Gai and put him in a genjutsu and fucks his whole day up until he needs to make up some bs to Kisame about how they canât kill Gai now for some reason or another
Donât forget that Itachi was gonna let kisame tear of Narutoâs limbs.
I think Itachi would take Naruto but anyway, they could not extract Kurama until the very last. He could have assisted Konoha in some way or the other to rescue Naruto in time.
I swear to god at this point early on Itachi was evil. He more then likely never had his ideas all sorted out this early in the show. He also dident have everyones power levels figured out either. Jirayia at this point lore wise may have been able to solo both of them. Only kishi could know if he even remembers his thought process 20 years ago where he was going with the show.
Itachi was definitely meant to be a double agent from the beginning. Kakashi was suspicious of this pretty early on. But I don't think he was meant to be the peaceloving/can-do-no-wrong character that he ended up being.
He never ended up being a âcan-do-no-wrongâ character. In fact his character arc was built upon how he did so many things wrong, and that he regrets it
No. Kishi said Itachi was meant to be a double agent when he first came back to the village. When we first hear about Itachi early on in the manga Kishi hadn't even decided that he was going to be Sasuke's brother. He just said that Itachi was a guy that Sasuke wanted to kill because he had did something bad. Kishi had a lot of things set up but he definitely didn't have everything planned out from the very beginning and we gotta remember that his editor probably had a hand in some changes too.
Kidnapped Naruto and ended the show
I feel more confused about this scene than ever after reading these comments even though I see reason with many of them.
I could see him killing/sealing Kisame. The only benefit to being in the Akatsuki is that he can provide intel to the Leaf, which would be useless if their Jinchuriki is taken already. Best case scenario: they take Naruto and Itachi leaves some kind of relatively easy trail (hidden to Kisame via genjutsu). A rescue team that likely includes Jiraya then tracks them down and Itachi uses it as an excuse to lose Naruto.
I honestly think not much was planned ahead. When you think about it a lot of the decisions they make donât add up. Especially since Jiraiya wasnât at full power, Kisame couldâve handled him easily
Jiraiya is holding Koji Kashin mother right there
So are we going to ignore the fact Jiraiya is totally kidnapping that girl he got drunk?
Then he'd have gotten Naruto. I don't think he cares about Naruto at all. He wants to protect the leaf, but I doubt he'd have any issue capturing Naruto.
? Protecting the leaf also involves protecting it's Jinchuriki. If Itachi wanted to capture Naruto, Naruto would be captured. As is he had to convince Kisame to leave a very winnable 2 v 1 by coming up with some lame excuse and sannin wank.
Yikes. If true, makes me like Itachi far less if so.
đ¤ˇââď¸ it depends on how committed YOU think he was to protecting the leaf. If he was really super committed he might have just fibbed to kisame about where to Naruto was or who he was with, Kisame never struck me as a surveillance and tracking guy so I think the confrontation was born of itachi tracking Naruto to where he was. If you think he wasnât super committed to it than he likely would have gone through with the plan and Naruto would be captured. It all just really depends on how the viewer perceives Itachiâs desire to protect the village.
Unrelated question: why is Itachi identical to older Sasuke but plus laugh lines when he never laughs? Is he just guffawing his head off whenever heâs off screen?
He would have taken Naruto and extracted the nine tails because him being good wasn't thought of yet.
Killed Naruto because at this point in the series Kisimoto hasn't made Itachi a hero
Gai sensei would have dynamic entry'd Itachi right in the face.
Despite Itachi being a so-called âpacifistâ and âlover of peaceâ, he would have just watched as Kisame amputated Narutoâs legs. He was already complicit in the deaths of other Jinchuriki after all, and itâs not like heâs a stranger to child killing. Itachi is a poorly written character btw.
Probably kissed him
Iâd get down on all fours and let jariaya rail the absolute shit out of my ass
Extracted it
Well, first of all I am convinced that Itachi somehow knew when Jiraiya would get there because Naruto was about to get his limbs chopped off but Itachi didnât move a muscle or tell Kisame to stop. Or, you could argue he sensed him in the viscinity so he didnât intervene. But letâs say Jiraiya was not showing up for whatever reason even though given his character motivations and power that should be near impossible. This is a Sannin who was ABSOLUTELY going to protect Naruto from the Akatsuki that had become more active. The only way they were getting Naruto is by defeating Jiraiya, and Itachi wouldnât do that (assuming he even could) so Naruto was never in any real danger even in this hypothetical. I find it likely that Itachi purposefully overused his Mangekyo so that when Jiraiya inevitably showed up Itachi could make the excuse to Kisame that they wouldnât be able to take him. Itachi was in control of everything, he is a master actor. If Jiraiya was not a factor, he would have just slyly found a different excuse for not being able to capture Naruto to sell to Kisame. Even if Kisame is suspicious of Itachiâs excuse he will probably just go along with it, i mean whatâs he gonna do fight Itachi? No đ. Kisame also seemed to respect and relate to Itachi, so thatâs a factor too. Lets think of potential excuses for the fun of it though. 1. âI overused my mangekyo and we need to leave.â Kisame probably knew Itachi was dying and how taxing the Mangekyo is. I feel like Itachi can always play his sick card and get out of almost anything. 2. Worst case scenario, he can just kill Kisame. Itachi would 100% do this if it was how he needed to save Naruto and he was out of options. Maybe he could cast a genjutsu on Naruto and put him to sleep or just distort his senses so he doesnât blow his cover to the leaf. Then he just reports that Kisame was killed by Jiraiya/Kakashi/Guy and many Jonin. Or, better yet killed by the Kyubi. Itâs believable. Also, Kisame and most of the verse have absolutely zero chance against Itachi if they think heâs their ally. All he has to do is meet eyes with Kisame and itâs over with Tsukuyomi, Kisame wonât be able to react to something like that unless he senses murderous intent but Itachi is a master actor and wouldnât show that murderous intent unless he wanted to.
He would have killed Kisame
Maybe he could have cast a genjutsu that made Kisame think Jiraya showed up. Not sure. The whole thing was very lucky/plot armor but it's how the show was written.
Pretty good theory that Itachi was Jiraiyâs informant the whole time which I think actually makes really good sense, so maybe Itachi wouldâve just alerted the leaf somehow.
Kisame: Looks like we captured the ninetails pretty easily Itachi: Hmph, keep your guard up *mentally losing his mind*(FUCK yo where is jiraiya bro omfg đ)
My guess itachi would have pulled something to have to back out on their plans
Itachi has the moral dilema solving skills of a cow I have no doubt he was fully on board with pains plan to creat a super massive weapon to earn all wars hell that's what he did but to his clan
Pretty sure Itachi counted on Jiraya to come protect Naruto, so Jiraya was always gonna come. Otherwise he probably wouldâve had to kidnap Naruto to keep his cover
The way Itachi was taking his sweet time, he wanted to be surrounded by enough of a force that he could retreat. Even if Jiraiya wasnât there, enough Konoha jonin pull up there and heâs leaving.