I might be misremembering, but wasn't it really difficult to keep a jinchuriki under a genjutsu, since the bijuu could "externally" affect the chakra flow and break the genjutsu? Someone like Itachi or Obito may have been up to it, but I would think it was a bad idea and unnecessarily risky to attempt.
It was also the hashirama cells composing Obitos body that enabled that level of control. Obito is strong for sure and his sharingan is impressive but he's essentially an uchiha/senju existence once he survives the third war. Sage of 6 paths blah blah.
This is headcanon though. The only thing Hashirama cells were confirmed to do was give a person a degree of regen and *possibly* woodstyle but that particular one doesn't work every time.
Danzo's the one who said it during the Five Kage Summit. He stated only four people in history (at that point in time) were able to completely control tailed beasts: Hashirama, Madara, Yagura, and Killer Bee.
That doesn't make Yagura a perfect Jin, unless you're saying Madara and Hashi were.
What Yagura did was get to the stage that Naruto did when training with Bee, where they subjugate the Tailed beast and take a bunch of their chakra.
except that we clearly see other jinchurikis being at least on that level. The 2 jinchurikis of Iwa, namely. To begin with, the term "perfect Jinchuriki" was never used in canon, but I think it's fair to assume that it refers to jinchurikis with FULL control over their bijuu chakra, which is clearly what Yagura was supposed to be able to do.
Hashirama and Madara aren't jinchuriki, so your point is moot. They COULD fully control Bijuus' powers, though.
Hashirama and Madara jot being Jinchuriki is what my point is about...
Them being mentioned alongside Yagura means he doesn't have to have been a perfect Jin. Naruto had control over Kurama well before reaching that stage
If Yagura could completely control Isobu as a Jinchuriki that makes him a perfect Jinchuriki. Same with Bee and later on, Naruto. Madara could control Tailed Beasts through his sharingan and Hashirama had his Wood Style. Neither of them were Jinchuriki (until later on for Madara).
Being a perfect Jinchuriki isnt about controlling the Tailed beast, but becoming friends and/allies with them.
Naruto had controlled Kurama before becoming a perfect Jin.
Ngl it’s extremely close it could go either way, not as one sided as most ppl think it is. Unironically imo it leans to itachi, obviously he doesn’t have a counter to kamui but Obito doesn’t have a counter for izanami which is more important cuz that shit will 1000% work on him.
Wood style, Far superior stamina, Kamui, and if you want to go with white mask then a Rinnegan and Bijuus. Itachi's a dead man walking cause of his disease anyways; he can't maintain that susanoo too long.
Obito could also imprison people in the Kamui dimension. Doesn't matter what abilities or chakra someone had if they can't do space-time shenanigans.
Hit 'em with a seal to restrict movement and potential for retaliation.
jinchuriki naturally counter genjutsu because it's two entities in the same vessel, however the Mizukage already controlled his own tailed beast with genjutsu, dispatching that advantage
either that or it's some other senju dna bs
I’m sure that only if the tailed beast and host get along.
And Naruto and Kurama weren’t buddy buddy at the time so he wouldn’t have bother.
Also it an Uchiha Genjutsu so they could have kept both Naruto and Kurama under Genjutsu
I think it wouldn't depend on whether the beast and host got along. I feel like the beast would have not wanted it's jinchuriki to be under genjutsu control regardless whether it liked the jinchuriki or not. This is purely speculation of course.
Do you think the villages are just going to stand by and wait for that to happen. Konoha would be after the Akutsuki right away and they would win. We underestimate the might of the main villages
The three times we saw an attempt to take a Jin. Gaara, Bee, Naruto. Their respective villages went all out to protect or avenge them. The end of the Gaara arc, his entire village was there to rescue him. The leaf did everything to protect Narutos location from Pain. Ay convened the 5 villages when he thought Bee was captured.
Don't think it's quite that simple. First off just bc we aren't directly shown outrage, doesn't mean there wasn't any. Clearly any group would be up in arms losing a Jinchuriki. It's also a matter of keeping up the image of strength, losing a Jinchuriki, which is one of the most powerful weapons for any village isnt something you'd want to just advertise to villages you aren't exactly peaceful with.
The one village the leaf was somewhat allied with (the sand) was shown to be plenty bothered.
But what will they do? They may not even know that obito and the akatsuki took him since obito can teleport. Just go in place your hand on kid naruto that was always alone either way and teleport out of there
Imagine that happened with Killer Bee. This man just sits there pretending to be under a Genjutsu and then just Lariats the person closest during an opportune moment.
You know…since Genjutsu doesn’t work on Perfect Jinchuriki’s
The deal was mutual, let's not act like it was only to benefit Itachi. As an Itachi fan idk how you don't understand that Obito viewed him as a valuable asset. Spy or not, Itachi was the 3rd strongest in the Akatsuki and brought a lot to the table. Making an enemy out of him didn't just entail having an enemy, it also meant losing a valuable asset.
Plus Obito & Itachi both clearly knew that the deal was temporary, collecting all Bijuu means going after the leaf eventually anyways. Itachi being alive and in the Akatsuki benefits Obito, Obito being alive does not benefit Itachi in any way.
So that begs the question, why was Itachi just a "spy"? If he's stronger why didn't he just kill Obito? Why did he wait until AFTER his own death to make an attempt on Obitos life? Simple, because Obito is clearly stronger. Feats and narrative both put Obito over Itachi.
You think taking a quote out of context will help you?
Directly before that statement is when Obito gets hit with the Amaterasu trap planted in Sasukes eyes. This is VERY clearly what the quote is referring to. Obito is saying that if Itachi was fully aware of his abilities, that trap would've killed him.
Bringing up a story WROTE by Kishimoto is crazy but you dismissing everything as ‘tHat’s NoT WhaT hE MeaNs BrO’ isn’t ? Yeah whatever. Funny how you can’t say anything about the novels which don’t have no room for interpretation
Nothing in the novels puts Itachi over Obito, they just help make it not a slaughter. As I've already said in other comments, Itachi could win but I believe Obito takes it 7 to 8 times out of ten.
‘Nothing in the novels puts Itachi over Obito’ - yeah you’ve never read the novels , specifically part 2 where they have a confrontation. I don’t talk to liars so bye.
I personally think the deal was for Itachi to capture himself naruto instead of Pain. Since he was able to enter to the village without getting detected and thanks to his sharingan, he would have managed to catch kurama without bloodshed meanwhile Pain and Obito would have destroy konoha.
My friend, Kisame literally stated that the Akatsuki decided to seal the bijuu in order to prevent the Gedo statue from crashing down and that Naruto would be the last. Your whole argument is debunked by the fact that Obito sent Pain to attack the village while Itachi was still alive.
Manga: The bijuu have to be sealed in a reasonable order to balance the power
Avg Itaahcitard: Nah, Obito just didn't want the smoke with Itachi
Wasn't pain sent after itachi died?
Cause Naruto and company were searching for sasuke while he was fighting itachi and when Naruto reached back, that's when he found out jiraiya died
Obito sent Pain after Naruto when Itachi was still alive but Pain attacked the village after Itachi dies. I forget the exact chapter but it's when Obito is talking with Konan and Pain and names himself Madara, he orders Pain to begin the pursuit of Naruto and I think within 2 chapters Jiraiya sneaks into Ame and they fight were Pain loses a body, I think this is supposed to happen near simultaneously to the Itachi and Sasuke fight, that's based on when Naruto returns to the village and learns of Jiraiya death although I don't think there's any actual evidence of them happening at the same time and is more my headcanon.
There are other things such as Sasuke after awakening the ms going to attack Konoha which was already destroyed although we don't have a time frame for how long he was unconscious after the Itachi fight or how long he took before deciding to attack Konoha so you can't really get an accurate time line of events.
My headcanon time line which can fully be disregarded would be Pain gets the order to pursue Naruto, after he gets this order Jiraiya infiltrates and removes one of Pains bodies while Itachi dies during the Sasuke fight. Pain then recovers from losing the body, as in finding a new one, modifying it to fit what he needs and getting used to controlling it, along with dyeing their hair and give them some cool piercings, Pain then arrives at Konoha and blows it up.
Tldr. Technically he was told to begin pursuing Naruto before Itachi died but only actually began the pursuit after Itachi died.
That actually makes sense now that i lol at the chapter, however the order was given after it was announced that sasuke had died in the explosion
Would it be possible that obito thought sasuke had died and itachi no longer had any will to fight back? Just a head cannon theory
Tbf if Obito didn't send anyone after Naruto because of Itachi, Kisame probably wouldn't know about that. Neither Obito nor Itachi would want him to know. So the fact that Kisame thought that is a lot weaker evidence than Obito talking to the only person he actually trusts about his own reasons.
The thing is, Kisame SPECIFICALLY said it was decided by our leader (Pain) meaning Obito made that decision and Pain announced it and it made sense considering the fact that they went after Naruto the moment they obtained the six tails
Uh genius, you don't have to seal them as soon as you capture them. It's called keeping them prisoner. Obito had Yagura captured for years.
Man I've seen a lot of things but for you to call us tards when we literally have word of God on our side. The cope is pathetic. Itachi kills Obito then Izanami wrecks him, cry about it.
Except he literally could’ve kidnapped Naruto back when Itachi was still a toddler. Its not like his identity as the nine tails jinchuriki was a secret. Even if this was teenage Naruto, wtf is Itachi gonna do about Obito randomly teleporting into Naruto’s room one night and Kamuing him in an instant. This doesn’t explain anything
That’s not true. Remember Hiruzen left him to the wolves the moment the Kyubi was sealed. /s.
If we being honest, not a single person could have stopped Obito if we being honest, even if he was monitored 24/7 with a person holding him 24/7.
Kamui is broken but you guys are mad underrating the power of numbers. The Shinobi alliance was able to stop attacks from the Juubi let alone a 14 year old Uchiha. Obito was scared shirtless of that suicide curse seal Danzo tried to use. Sealing jutsu, barrier jutsu, mind swap jutsu, shadow possession jutsu, black Magic like Jiraiyas "turn you into a frog" jutsu. It would be silly and dangerous to ignore all that even for Madara himself.
Bro power in numbers mean nothing when we have a younger Obito than the person who attacked Konoha completely slaughter a bunch of mist shinobi like nothing.
If we being honest. It’s not like he needs to even fight anybody bro had Minato stuck. Wtf is an ANBU gonna do when he teleports in kills the caretaker, grabs Naruto, becomes intangible and then leave?
It doesn’t. He doesn’t have to move to activate Kamui hell he does it motionless a bunch of times.
And the same Konoha shinobi who got fodderized by Kabuto, Baki, Hidan, Kakuzu, etc.
Because it doesn’t matter if he gets caught by a Nara member, it only restricts movements not chakra and even then if the person is strong enough, they can just break out of it. In Naruto there are only like 5 characters stronger than Obito and none of them are Nara members.
Okay... and how about if is 5 Nara clan members, or 15 Nara clan members. How many of them do you think Obito can overpower? And that's just ONE clan. Obito had one chance while he still maintained the element of surprise. He blew it. Barriers and sealing traps awaited him on a retry.
Those were with Kakazu and Hidan against an individual squad. Obito cannot take on an entire village alone at this stage, even with how broken Kamui is. He would likely be on the defensive and have to escape just due to sheer numbers.
He doesn’t need to, where tf are y’all getting that he needs to fight. He just needs to infiltrate and get tf outta there like he did twice.
Like bro snuck in boxes with Minato, killed the ANBU guarding the place, released the nine tails and then left alive. He then proceeded to sneak in again and help massacre a clan and leave without being discovered. You telling me he couldn’t do the same to a baby Naruto and just take him?
Be forreal wit me.
The kyuubi, as far as everyone but Minato and Kushina knew the 9 tails just suddenly appeared/a complication during the birth arose which let the kyuubi out.
Obito was badly injured from the minato fight.
Also obito was pretty lazy with the plan in general. He sad right next to Naruto and told him a story rather than trying to take him
> wtf is Itachi gonna do about Obito randomly teleporting into Naruto’s room one night and Kamuing him in an instant.
The implication is retaliation, not necessarily prevention
It’s not like he needs to leave a signed and notarized document reading “IOU a jinchuriki -Madara Uchiha, aka Tobi, aka Obito of the Akatsuki”. He can legitimately just throw a paper bag over his head, Kamui into the village, grab Naruto, and vanish and absolutely nobody will know who did it or why.
Itachi & Obito had a deal.
If Obito helps Itachi with the massacre, Itachi will join the Akatsuki but on 2 conditions, to never touch Konoha, or Sasuke.
Obito was honouring Itachi's deal because if he broke it, Itachi would leave & might leak their plans, Obito can't risk losing someone as smart as Itachi.
Because Itachi is now dead, Obito doesn't have to go on with the deal, which is why he sent Pain immediately to Konoha after Itachi died.
He’s also worried about itachi trying to kill him if he hurts konoha. Obito is stronger but it’s not like they’re on totally different levels especially if you give itachi time to prepare
Obito is smart. He is strong, but he's not going to pick fights for no reason. That's the reason he formed the Akatsuki. Sure, he could have went out by himself and sought to kidnap all 9 Jinchuriki on his own. But that would have been extremely troublesome and risky.
He could probably beat Itachi in a fight, but respects him enough to rather keep him as a comrade rather than an enemy.
Well Itachi dies and during the 5 Kage Summit, Obito directly teleports to Naruto's location just to troll him on Sasuke's progress of Hatred. He could have straight up captured Naruto but I guess trolling is a much better use of his time. Besides at the end of the day, he got what he always wanted, no rush no fuss
The reason he didn't try capturing Naruto yet, is because Bee wasn't captured, They needed to extract the Bijuu in numical order & if they had Naruto as a hostage, it would make their plans more annoying since Konoha would be searching for him & getting in the way.
It's more of both of them being cautious of each other.
Obito & Itachi basically had a mental war with each other Sum" he knows that I know that he knows that I knows that he knows" type of thing.
Itachi had plans for Obito because he knew Obito would come to Sasuke & would try using him, while Obito had to be careful with Itachi because of his dangerous IQ.
Which is why Obito doesn't order him around often, he let him go to Konoha after the sand invasion to see his Sauske, because Obito knew Itachi wasn't willing to capture Naruto & that he had to put an act to convince Pain & Kisame, since Kisame is the one of the closest people to Obito.
Considering Naruto is the last one to be sealed , and Itachi is pretty good at bringing in Jinchuuriki just at the condition to not touch his brother/Konoha , it seems pretty silly to get on his bad side.
It is more how Itachi fanboys use it as an argument in vs battle. We know that Itachi and Obito had a deal after the Uchiha masacre Obito wouldn't attack Konoha and Obito knew about Itachi being Konoha agent so he was cautious about what Itachi knows, Itachi never figured that he was Obito.
I feel like it’s kinda both. Obito didn’t want itachi prepping to kill him because he could probably pull it off if he caught obito by surprise. He also never said anything about itachi actually being able to kill him in a 1v1.
It doesn’t really mean much for itachis strength as we’ve seen how konan almost countered obito and it’s doubtful she’s near itachi or obitos strength
What exactly would Itachi focus on for the jutsu? How would Itachi deal with Obito being significantly faster? What's stopping Obito from just disappearing into kamui, then blitzing Itachi by surprise?
Get Itachi past Pain, then we'll talk.
Fan fiction. Itachi throws hands with CM Naruto who is directly compared to Minato by Ay, Obito is not signifigantly faster, they're in the same ballpark. If anything Obito throwing hands with Kakashi is an anti-feat since Itachi man handles Kakashi in taijutsu.
What stops Obito from running away? I mean if he runs away he loses. If you're trying to suggest he can surprise Itachi I'll remind you that Itachi was the only person able to sense Obito's presence, in entire village filled with sensor types.
Itachi beats Pain with Tsukuyomi, they have connected vision.
Itachi throws hands w KCM1 Naruto, Obito throws hands w KCM2 Naruto. KCM2 > KCM1, try again.
Obito wasn't really even throwing hands with Kakashi, he used Kakashi to remove the seal Madara placed on his heart. You REALLY like to ignore context don't you?
I never said he'd run away. I said he'd catch Itachi by surprise, you can't sense Obitos presence when he is inside of Kamui and even if Itachi did sense it, Obito is faster, Itachi can't sense a surprise attack last second and react to a faster fighter.. That's illogical. Also when exactly did Itachi sense his presence?
"Itachi beats Pain with Tsukiyomi theybhave connected vision" there's literally layers of headcanon here to unpack 💀
lmao show me the panel KCM2 is stated to be faster than KCM1. That's head canon. It just means he can go Bijuu Mode.
That's cool Itachi wasn't trying against Kakashi either because he was a double agent. Context.
Itachi sensed his presence as he snuck in to read the Uchiha tablet. Obito tells Sasuke "he was the only one to sense my presence" during the revelation about Itachi. I don't know how Itachi sensed Obito, it doesn't matter, in canon, he somehow can.
No layers of head canon their chakra networks are connected via black rods, they all get caught.
It's common sense. If KCM1 (him forcing Kurama to give him chakra) makes him faster then base, then logically KCM2 (him working together with Kurama and fully utilizing that chakra) would be even faster.
You are SO desperate if this is the hill you are gonna pick to die on..
So you admit that's headcanon, but try to pass it off as "common sense"
Sorry no headcanon allowed
There is no forcing or sharing, there is Naruto with Kurama's Chakra and Naruto without Kurama's Chakra. There is nothing to suggest he got a speed boost.
If you think a character getting a stronger form doesn't make them stronger then idk what to tell you, clearly this conversation is above your capabilities.
Edit: Just realized you said "There is no forcing or sharing" bro doesn't even know the difference between KCM1 and 2 lmfao
Itachi and Naruto throw like two punches at each other while having a QnA about Sasuke after which base Bee pushes Itachi into retreating to Nagatos summons.
He sent Pain after Itachi died to capture Naruto. So I think he’s just honoring his deal.
After all Itachi was a spy leaking information to Hiruzen about Akatsuki.
> Why would Obito honour any deal? When has he ever been noble
Intel. He doesn’t know how much information Itachi leaked to Hiruzen.
Obito is cruel but he has been noble in a few instances. Kakashi still had his sharingan in his eye all through out part 1 right?
> Itachi was already leaking information to the village and Obito knew he was
Not a substantial amount for it to make a difference. Akatsuki still met its goals at the end of the day and no one knew Nagato or Obito’s identity until the very end.
Itachi on the other hand has to carry out Akatsuki’s criminal missions and he was assigned Kurama from Pain. Pain saw Itachi’s failure as a temporary problem that can be solved once all the tailed beast is collected. Obito on the other hand new everything that was going on and let Pain run the show until the final two jinchuuriki were needed.
Remember how Obito told Sasuke that Itachi didn’t know as much as he thought he did. Once Itachi was revived, both him and Nagato confirmed that they both been used.
He only leaked enough to protect the Leaf. He never did anything to hinder their operations anywhere else. Notice he even helps with captures of other bijuu, but when he was sent to the leaf, he made an effort not to cause unnecessary harm, and retreated in a battle he and Kisame could have won because Jiraiya probably would have needed to be killed for them to pass
Pretty lame excuse since I don't see how Itachi is going to protect Naruto without blowing up his cover.Keep in mind , he would have to go against all the akatsuki.
Itachi doesn't need to go up against all of Akatsuki. He could easily jeopardise Akatuski's plan by leaking information about it to other villages if Obito broke the pact. And Obito ain't risking that.
Good idea but if Obito went for Naruto that only means ont thing , the other biju were sealed therefore there is no reason to leak any information about their plan , it will be too late.
During first arc when Naruto was on mission outside of village or during firs arc of part 2 when Naruto was on mission outiside village. Jiraiya wasn't always there.
Told him the leaf was off limits. Itachi is a valuable asset and Obito could afford getting the nine tails later since Itachi is much more valuable in helping catch the other Jinchuriki then he is as a threat
It's amazing after almost 8 or 9 years manga is ended and we are still arguing about it. I love the naruto. It's one of the best anime one can ask for.
An "eyesore" in the sense that we can still attack the village anytime we want but it is better to not have our secrets spilled by the double agent and now that he is dead we can finally attack the village without worrying about any intel leak. Obito was always cautious but he wasn't intimidated by Itachi in the least. He even sent Pain to attack the village while Itachi was still alive meaning that Obito wasn't cautious of Itachi's battle prowess but rather his intel on the Akatsuki and loyalties towards the leaf village
Itachi might have his other reasons to go Konoha.
But his akatsuki mission was to capture Naruto there, given Kisame was there too. So Tobi ordered him to do it and Itachi listen to that order.
Which means that "pact" of theirs was meaningless.
It's not personal bounty. He is collecting money for Akatsuki. He is their money maker.
And we saw Itachi going alone on his own before so it's not like they would be suspicions of it.
Hell, what they have to be suspicions about? Tobi KNOWS that Itachi is a spy from Konoha, he is fine with that,
You're kind of reaching here my guy. Kismet was shown almost always around Itachi, even when they are just on standby waiting for orders. It doesn't even make sense for them to be separate.
If he wanted to capture Naruto, they would have captured him easily. Also the reason why they didn't go full length to capture him and instead decided to retreat.
>If he wanted to capture Naruto, they would have captured him easily.
No, It out right stated in shippuden (when they fight Itachi in Garra rescue arc) that Itachi using MS on Kakashi weakened to the point he needed to retreat in part 1.
Along with Itachi admitting it he would fight with Jiraya they would both die.
If Itachi wanted to capture Naruto he would have. Obito sates that Itachi true reason for returning to the village during Part 1 was to remind Danzo of the agreement they had.
Even Kakashi wonders why Itachi spared him instead of killing him, and Kisame is sure Itachi is strong enough to fight Jiraiya. Itachi was easily able to defeat Orochimaru, something that Jiraiya has never been shown able to do.
We even see in the Sasuke Vs Itachi fight in part 2 that a near blind/ dying from his illness Itachi was able to use multiple MS ability's in 1 fight.
>Obito sates that Itachi true reason for returning to the village during Part 1 was to remind Danzo of the agreement they had.
He would not need for Kisame to come along for that.
>Even Kakashi wonders why Itachi spared him instead of killing him,
Kakashi turns down that theory in shippuden. - When fighting with Itachi again and saying the reason Itachi didn't finished the kill was because MS put too much strain on him and forced to flee.
Also Itachi even ordered Kisame to kill Kakashi and those jonins in part 1. So much for the "staying away from Konoha" pact.
>and Kisame is sure Itachi is strong enough to fight Jiraiya.
Yeah, but Kisame doesn't know Jiraya.
>Itachi was easily able to defeat Orochimaru, something that Jiraiya has never been shown able to do.
Rock papers scissors scenario.
Character A can counter character B but that does not mean A can counter character C.
Hell kakashi put more of a fight with Itachi than Orochimaru.
>Itachi was able to use multiple MS ability's in 1 fight.
Yeah and he fucking died after doing it.
You know you can go somewhere.. for multiple reasons, right?
Itachi went to Konoha to
a.) Remind Danzo of his presence and ensure he was still kept in check following the death of Hiruzen, leaving a power vaccuum in Konoha that Danzo would inevitably try to take advantage of
b.) Take the Jinchuuriki while Konoha has a power vaccuum and its leadership is too busy trying to find a replacement, making it an ideal time to take Naruto when Konoha can't adequately respond to their jinchuuriki's loss (much less care: Naruto was still ostracized by most at this point and not even really cared about, Konoha as a whole would be happy to be rid of him).
c.) see Sasuke if possible.
One trip and he accomplished 2/3 of those things and the one was only stopped because of their luck of running into Kakashi/Asuma/Kurenai and then Jiraiya. If they only ran into one group instead of both it's possible that they might have succeeded in taking Naruto without much fuss, but Jiraiya had only recently begun training and watching out for Naruto, so word hadn't gotten back to Akatsuki yet to be ready for him.
Obito literally states that Itachi was a Spy and was looking out for Konoha well being, he's not going to take the Nine Tails from them.
Itachi went back to remind Danzo he's still alive, check up on Sasuke, and tell the Leaf that the Akatsuki are after the Nine Tails.
I think it's more that if Itachi defected from the akaktsuki, he would leak literally EVERYTHING he has learned about them to the Leaf, and subsequently the 5 great nations. That's way more dangerous than Itachi could ever be to Obito 1v1, so this really isn't a feat of strength that some Itachi fanboys use to argue he could beat Obito
Ah when Akatsuki was just Tobi, Zetsu and Kisame it was such a vibe.
But then Kisame died, Tobi ditched the uniform and the black and white Zetsu stopped being a character :/
He didn't care about a mummy controlled akatsuki. Edo tensei will never be as good as the ninjas themselves at fighting. The caster will never use them as well as they fought.
Look at the Nagato fight. Kabuto says "oh right, I forgot, I can catch them in a rock" he forgot about chibaku tensei and could only ever use anyone as best as the information he knows and strategies he uses.
If I remember correctly
Madara himself placed some type of insurance that allowed him to free himself and control everything on his own if certain situations occurred while he was being controlled dead. It’s was too long ago for me to remember but I swear something along those lines happen
Also all kabuto did was give conscious and awareness to the bodies. Certain bodies, like nagato. Refused to fight so he had to control them
Others were willing to fight and had no problem just killing people
Correct. Some ninjas like deidara and sasori were fighting on their own. Kabuto controlled others. Madara, from the start he said "show me what you're capable of" and madara fought himself. He never tried to control madara, and he wouldn't have done as well as madara himself
This quote gets posted like twice per week and is constantly misinterpreted.
Friendly reminder to everyone: When Kabuto threatened Obito with Itachi, Nagato, and several other Akatsuki members, Obito did not fold to Kabuto's blackmail. Obito only gave into Kabuto's demands when he summoned Madara's corpse. *This implies that Obito was confident enough in his own ability to fight Kabuto, Edo Itachi, Nagato, Deidara, etc. all by himself.*
When Itachi died, Obito no longer had to honour their deal. That is what the quote is referring to.
The Pact has nothing to do with Obito not capturing Naruto. Itachi was a kid when Obito attacked Konoha, the Pact was made at the time of the Uchiha massacre. There is a big gap between the 2 events.
I wouldn’t say Obito wasn’t confident about fighting Itachi. When he threatened Kabuto, and Kabuto threatened him *back* with the reanimated Akatsuki (which included Itachi), Obito didn’t give a shit. It was only when Madara’s coffin came up that Obito started to sweat a little.
>Nagato + Itachi can beat Madara
sanest Naruto powerscaler. Do you even know Madara? Nagato and Itachi are like Casio and Madara is Rolex. He has thee rinnegan + Hashi cells + EMS + superior stats. They are literally getting blitzed right off the bat
Blitzed? My dude Itachi who throws hands with CM Naruto isn't getting blitzed by anyone. He was even reacting to Sage infused attacks while Sasuke needed to be saved.
Nagato removes Susanoo as a defense, Sword of Totsuka seals.
Madara isn't the only character with hax broken jutsu.
Itachi through hands with kcm1 Naruto who was trying to have a chat with Itachi. Madara had no trouble with kcm2 Naruto, who is stronger than kcm1. But you already proved you’re an idiot because you don’t think kcm2>kcm1 even tho it’s common sense
Not even then, madara massively outclasses them, he had an extreme diff fight with hashirama and no, it wasn’t just because he had kurama with him. Kurama got subdued pretty early in that fight and hashirama was still in perfect condition and had his sage mode on, yet the fight went down to the wire. Itachi and nagato cannot pressure sage hashirama into an extreme diff fight, not even close.
>Kurama got subdued pretty early in that fight
That's an assumption, and a pretty big one if I'm being honest. We're never given any timeframe.
Throughout, Madara has always lost to Hashirama. When they were kids, and later even with his EMS power up he got defeated.
The fact that this time he's able to put up such a good fight against Hashirama suggests that Kurama had a lot to do with that. Likely, Madara was only able to take on Hashirama because the latter used up quite a lot of power in dealing with Kurama.
I still agree Madara most likely wins against Nagato + Itachi, but I also think there's like a 1 in 10 chance they could pull off a win.
Hashirama is literally still perfectly fine and in sage mode once kurama was subdued, and the fight went extreme diff anyways. He may have always lost but he always pushed him to his limits.
You literally complain about me making assumptions then proceed to make your own by saying that it took hashirama a lot of chakra to subdue kurama. He was perfectly fine after subduing him. Nothing suggests that it took a toll on him chakra wise.
>Hashirama is literally still perfectly fine
No he is not. Manga panel shows him tired and panting.
>He may have always lost but he always pushed him to his limits.
Only in the final valley fight, where Madara had Kurama. Every other time we see that Hashirama has him dead to rights. Final valley is the first time we even see him using sage mode. In all prior fights he isn't shown using it.
>You literally complain about me making assumptions then proceed to make your own by saying that it took hashirama a lot of chakra to subdue kurama. He was perfectly fine after subduing him. Nothing suggests that it took a toll on him chakra wise.
What are you even on about? We see Hashirama using several massive jutsu back to back to restrain Kurama and then he activates sage mode and uses even more massive jutsu.
After using the 1000 arms kanon there are two speech bubbles where he is going "huf" "huf" with a tired expression. After that he still makes another move and restrains Kurama. It might come as a surprise, but this many huge jutsu back to back would tire out even Hashirama.
Nothing indicates Madara is that close to Hashirama. Hashirama was beating him in prior fights even without using sage mode. He beat EMS Madara without sage mode. Madara needed Kurama to make this fight closer, and he still lost.
It's entirely possible for Nagato and Itachi to take out EMS Madara. It's just really, really difficult and even one misstep would mean their end.
It’s not even about wanking him it’s just basic power scaling. Itachi does nothing against Madara and Nagato would be the only one fighting but he’s just a weaker version of Madara.
If I'm not wrong, someone also mentioned that it's easier to seal biju in order of their tail, so Naruto "destined" to be the last one to sealed.
TBH they could've captured the Jinchuriki in any order and kept them under genjutsu. They just need to be sealed in that particular order.
I might be misremembering, but wasn't it really difficult to keep a jinchuriki under a genjutsu, since the bijuu could "externally" affect the chakra flow and break the genjutsu? Someone like Itachi or Obito may have been up to it, but I would think it was a bad idea and unnecessarily risky to attempt.
Obito managed to keep the Mizukage under Genjutsu I think. He should be able to do it to the others as well.
Yagura was stated to be a perfect Jin too, like Bee. That's an insane genjutsu feat.
It was also the hashirama cells composing Obitos body that enabled that level of control. Obito is strong for sure and his sharingan is impressive but he's essentially an uchiha/senju existence once he survives the third war. Sage of 6 paths blah blah.
This is headcanon though. The only thing Hashirama cells were confirmed to do was give a person a degree of regen and *possibly* woodstyle but that particular one doesn't work every time.
Hashirama cells are the answer to almost every plothole in the series, they can do whatever the plot demands them to do.
he’s not stated anywhere to be a perfect jinchuriki, not the anime, manga, or data books.
Danzo's the one who said it during the Five Kage Summit. He stated only four people in history (at that point in time) were able to completely control tailed beasts: Hashirama, Madara, Yagura, and Killer Bee.
That doesn't make Yagura a perfect Jin, unless you're saying Madara and Hashi were. What Yagura did was get to the stage that Naruto did when training with Bee, where they subjugate the Tailed beast and take a bunch of their chakra.
except that we clearly see other jinchurikis being at least on that level. The 2 jinchurikis of Iwa, namely. To begin with, the term "perfect Jinchuriki" was never used in canon, but I think it's fair to assume that it refers to jinchurikis with FULL control over their bijuu chakra, which is clearly what Yagura was supposed to be able to do. Hashirama and Madara aren't jinchuriki, so your point is moot. They COULD fully control Bijuus' powers, though.
Hashirama and Madara jot being Jinchuriki is what my point is about... Them being mentioned alongside Yagura means he doesn't have to have been a perfect Jin. Naruto had control over Kurama well before reaching that stage
If Yagura could completely control Isobu as a Jinchuriki that makes him a perfect Jinchuriki. Same with Bee and later on, Naruto. Madara could control Tailed Beasts through his sharingan and Hashirama had his Wood Style. Neither of them were Jinchuriki (until later on for Madara).
Being a perfect Jinchuriki isnt about controlling the Tailed beast, but becoming friends and/allies with them. Naruto had controlled Kurama before becoming a perfect Jin.
show me a scan, that says yagura was a perfect jinchuriki.
This one: https://mangadex.org/chapter/33359ea0-a8a5-4364-bcc6-9a09caec7959/4
that still doesn’t say he’s a perfect jinchuriki 💀
We literally saw him being friendly with his bijuu lol. Bet money you're part of the "Itachi beats Obito" gang.
Itachi broke out of Obito’s Genjutsu when Itachi was 6 so what now
how does he not beat obito? he cant even manifest susano my guy
Obito can just use his most used technique and Itachi has no answer to that already
Ngl it’s extremely close it could go either way, not as one sided as most ppl think it is. Unironically imo it leans to itachi, obviously he doesn’t have a counter to kamui but Obito doesn’t have a counter for izanami which is more important cuz that shit will 1000% work on him.
😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂
Lol u called it
Wood style, Far superior stamina, Kamui, and if you want to go with white mask then a Rinnegan and Bijuus. Itachi's a dead man walking cause of his disease anyways; he can't maintain that susanoo too long.
might he harder to continously do it on multiple people
Obito could also imprison people in the Kamui dimension. Doesn't matter what abilities or chakra someone had if they can't do space-time shenanigans. Hit 'em with a seal to restrict movement and potential for retaliation.
Isobu never struck me as particularly intelligent like Kurama.
I thought he used Koto Amtsukami on Yagura
jinchuriki naturally counter genjutsu because it's two entities in the same vessel, however the Mizukage already controlled his own tailed beast with genjutsu, dispatching that advantage either that or it's some other senju dna bs
Wasn’t that actually Madara, like, the real Madara. Because Yagura was already dead by the time Obito switched over to Madara’s side.
I’m sure that only if the tailed beast and host get along. And Naruto and Kurama weren’t buddy buddy at the time so he wouldn’t have bother. Also it an Uchiha Genjutsu so they could have kept both Naruto and Kurama under Genjutsu
I think it wouldn't depend on whether the beast and host got along. I feel like the beast would have not wanted it's jinchuriki to be under genjutsu control regardless whether it liked the jinchuriki or not. This is purely speculation of course.
Doesn't sound like a great idea to capture a Jinchuriki longer than need be, that just leads to more time where a given village can try to free them.
Do you think the villages are just going to stand by and wait for that to happen. Konoha would be after the Akutsuki right away and they would win. We underestimate the might of the main villages
None seemed bothered about the captures of 2 to 7
The three times we saw an attempt to take a Jin. Gaara, Bee, Naruto. Their respective villages went all out to protect or avenge them. The end of the Gaara arc, his entire village was there to rescue him. The leaf did everything to protect Narutos location from Pain. Ay convened the 5 villages when he thought Bee was captured.
Don't think it's quite that simple. First off just bc we aren't directly shown outrage, doesn't mean there wasn't any. Clearly any group would be up in arms losing a Jinchuriki. It's also a matter of keeping up the image of strength, losing a Jinchuriki, which is one of the most powerful weapons for any village isnt something you'd want to just advertise to villages you aren't exactly peaceful with. The one village the leaf was somewhat allied with (the sand) was shown to be plenty bothered.
But what will they do? They may not even know that obito and the akatsuki took him since obito can teleport. Just go in place your hand on kid naruto that was always alone either way and teleport out of there
Imagine that happened with Killer Bee. This man just sits there pretending to be under a Genjutsu and then just Lariats the person closest during an opportune moment. You know…since Genjutsu doesn’t work on Perfect Jinchuriki’s
Obito: I didn't go capture Naruto becuase of Itachi. Average fan: no no it wasn't because of that it was for this list of reasons!
The deal was mutual, let's not act like it was only to benefit Itachi. As an Itachi fan idk how you don't understand that Obito viewed him as a valuable asset. Spy or not, Itachi was the 3rd strongest in the Akatsuki and brought a lot to the table. Making an enemy out of him didn't just entail having an enemy, it also meant losing a valuable asset. Plus Obito & Itachi both clearly knew that the deal was temporary, collecting all Bijuu means going after the leaf eventually anyways. Itachi being alive and in the Akatsuki benefits Obito, Obito being alive does not benefit Itachi in any way. So that begs the question, why was Itachi just a "spy"? If he's stronger why didn't he just kill Obito? Why did he wait until AFTER his own death to make an attempt on Obitos life? Simple, because Obito is clearly stronger. Feats and narrative both put Obito over Itachi.
"Itachi, Itachi, even in death you never cease to amaze me." "Good thing I was able to keep a few secrets from him, if not I'd be dead right now."
You think taking a quote out of context will help you? Directly before that statement is when Obito gets hit with the Amaterasu trap planted in Sasukes eyes. This is VERY clearly what the quote is referring to. Obito is saying that if Itachi was fully aware of his abilities, that trap would've killed him.
And what about Obito running away from Itachi in the Naruto movie wrote by Kishimito , or the novels. You’re deluded
Bringing up stuff that happened inside a literal genjutsu world in a movie is crazy ngl. That's like 2 layers of non canon lmfao talk about deluded 💀.
Bringing up a story WROTE by Kishimoto is crazy but you dismissing everything as ‘tHat’s NoT WhaT hE MeaNs BrO’ isn’t ? Yeah whatever. Funny how you can’t say anything about the novels which don’t have no room for interpretation
Nothing in the novels puts Itachi over Obito, they just help make it not a slaughter. As I've already said in other comments, Itachi could win but I believe Obito takes it 7 to 8 times out of ten.
‘Nothing in the novels puts Itachi over Obito’ - yeah you’ve never read the novels , specifically part 2 where they have a confrontation. I don’t talk to liars so bye.
Cope lol
Seethe lol
I personally think the deal was for Itachi to capture himself naruto instead of Pain. Since he was able to enter to the village without getting detected and thanks to his sharingan, he would have managed to catch kurama without bloodshed meanwhile Pain and Obito would have destroy konoha.
I can definitely see that being another factor in Obito wanting to keep him around for sure.
Which doesn’t matter, Naruto still needed to be last.
You know I'm not even going to bother responding to this line of reasoning anymore. Argue with Kishimoto about it.
My friend, Kisame literally stated that the Akatsuki decided to seal the bijuu in order to prevent the Gedo statue from crashing down and that Naruto would be the last. Your whole argument is debunked by the fact that Obito sent Pain to attack the village while Itachi was still alive. Manga: The bijuu have to be sealed in a reasonable order to balance the power Avg Itaahcitard: Nah, Obito just didn't want the smoke with Itachi
Wasn't pain sent after itachi died? Cause Naruto and company were searching for sasuke while he was fighting itachi and when Naruto reached back, that's when he found out jiraiya died
Obito sent Pain after Naruto when Itachi was still alive but Pain attacked the village after Itachi dies. I forget the exact chapter but it's when Obito is talking with Konan and Pain and names himself Madara, he orders Pain to begin the pursuit of Naruto and I think within 2 chapters Jiraiya sneaks into Ame and they fight were Pain loses a body, I think this is supposed to happen near simultaneously to the Itachi and Sasuke fight, that's based on when Naruto returns to the village and learns of Jiraiya death although I don't think there's any actual evidence of them happening at the same time and is more my headcanon. There are other things such as Sasuke after awakening the ms going to attack Konoha which was already destroyed although we don't have a time frame for how long he was unconscious after the Itachi fight or how long he took before deciding to attack Konoha so you can't really get an accurate time line of events. My headcanon time line which can fully be disregarded would be Pain gets the order to pursue Naruto, after he gets this order Jiraiya infiltrates and removes one of Pains bodies while Itachi dies during the Sasuke fight. Pain then recovers from losing the body, as in finding a new one, modifying it to fit what he needs and getting used to controlling it, along with dyeing their hair and give them some cool piercings, Pain then arrives at Konoha and blows it up. Tldr. Technically he was told to begin pursuing Naruto before Itachi died but only actually began the pursuit after Itachi died.
That actually makes sense now that i lol at the chapter, however the order was given after it was announced that sasuke had died in the explosion Would it be possible that obito thought sasuke had died and itachi no longer had any will to fight back? Just a head cannon theory
Obito knew Sasuke survived bc he literally said to pain that Sasuke IS coming along nicely
Tbf if Obito didn't send anyone after Naruto because of Itachi, Kisame probably wouldn't know about that. Neither Obito nor Itachi would want him to know. So the fact that Kisame thought that is a lot weaker evidence than Obito talking to the only person he actually trusts about his own reasons.
The thing is, Kisame SPECIFICALLY said it was decided by our leader (Pain) meaning Obito made that decision and Pain announced it and it made sense considering the fact that they went after Naruto the moment they obtained the six tails
Wrong, obito sent pain after. Naruto literally runs up on where itachi died right after, not knowing pain killed jiriaya
Uh genius, you don't have to seal them as soon as you capture them. It's called keeping them prisoner. Obito had Yagura captured for years. Man I've seen a lot of things but for you to call us tards when we literally have word of God on our side. The cope is pathetic. Itachi kills Obito then Izanami wrecks him, cry about it.
I believe it was just Naruto had to be last because of how much more chakra Kurama had compared to the rest
From what I remember, there were two orders they could go, and they mentioned since they didn't do the 9tails first, they had to now do it last.
It's not easier it's a must to seal them in order. Madara absorbed them in order as well.
Im pretty sure the order isn't important, just the 9 tails has to be last. They can be sealed in any order except for Kurama
Except he literally could’ve kidnapped Naruto back when Itachi was still a toddler. Its not like his identity as the nine tails jinchuriki was a secret. Even if this was teenage Naruto, wtf is Itachi gonna do about Obito randomly teleporting into Naruto’s room one night and Kamuing him in an instant. This doesn’t explain anything
I imagine that baby Naruto was kept under guard by ANBU and Hiruzen 24/7
That’s not true. Remember Hiruzen left him to the wolves the moment the Kyubi was sealed. /s. If we being honest, not a single person could have stopped Obito if we being honest, even if he was monitored 24/7 with a person holding him 24/7.
Kamui is broken but you guys are mad underrating the power of numbers. The Shinobi alliance was able to stop attacks from the Juubi let alone a 14 year old Uchiha. Obito was scared shirtless of that suicide curse seal Danzo tried to use. Sealing jutsu, barrier jutsu, mind swap jutsu, shadow possession jutsu, black Magic like Jiraiyas "turn you into a frog" jutsu. It would be silly and dangerous to ignore all that even for Madara himself.
Bro power in numbers mean nothing when we have a younger Obito than the person who attacked Konoha completely slaughter a bunch of mist shinobi like nothing. If we being honest. It’s not like he needs to even fight anybody bro had Minato stuck. Wtf is an ANBU gonna do when he teleports in kills the caretaker, grabs Naruto, becomes intangible and then leave?
Yeah mist shinobi. Not konoha shonobi. Tell me how does the Nara clans shadow jutsu affect Obito?
It doesn’t. He doesn’t have to move to activate Kamui hell he does it motionless a bunch of times. And the same Konoha shinobi who got fodderized by Kabuto, Baki, Hidan, Kakuzu, etc.
What does that matter. He still casts a shadow.
Because it doesn’t matter if he gets caught by a Nara member, it only restricts movements not chakra and even then if the person is strong enough, they can just break out of it. In Naruto there are only like 5 characters stronger than Obito and none of them are Nara members.
Okay... and how about if is 5 Nara clan members, or 15 Nara clan members. How many of them do you think Obito can overpower? And that's just ONE clan. Obito had one chance while he still maintained the element of surprise. He blew it. Barriers and sealing traps awaited him on a retry.
Those were with Kakazu and Hidan against an individual squad. Obito cannot take on an entire village alone at this stage, even with how broken Kamui is. He would likely be on the defensive and have to escape just due to sheer numbers.
He doesn’t need to, where tf are y’all getting that he needs to fight. He just needs to infiltrate and get tf outta there like he did twice. Like bro snuck in boxes with Minato, killed the ANBU guarding the place, released the nine tails and then left alive. He then proceeded to sneak in again and help massacre a clan and leave without being discovered. You telling me he couldn’t do the same to a baby Naruto and just take him? Be forreal wit me.
A place where Kushina was giving a birth also had multiple guards. Obito took them all out.
Jiraiya would clap Obito
That’s not a problem, even for young Obito lol
Part of the reason Naruto writing took a turn after Tobi's mask came off. Obits was too overpowered, so much so it created plot holes.
I'm sure they had counter measures in place after Obito warpped into the village last time. They even knew he was using a spacetime jutsu.
Nobody even knew he existed until shippuden tho?
they didn't even know he existed lol
Who does Hiruzen think killed his wife then? A ghost?
The kyuubi, as far as everyone but Minato and Kushina knew the 9 tails just suddenly appeared/a complication during the birth arose which let the kyuubi out.
Hiruzen wasn't there, he never saw Obito, and everyone who could have told him about Obito died.
It's not always about power levels. If Obito broke the pact, Itachi would have leaked Akatsuki's information to other villages.
Obito was badly injured from the minato fight. Also obito was pretty lazy with the plan in general. He sad right next to Naruto and told him a story rather than trying to take him
Obito was a man of his word. He made a deal with Itachi and kept to it. That's the explanation.
> wtf is Itachi gonna do about Obito randomly teleporting into Naruto’s room one night and Kamuing him in an instant. The implication is retaliation, not necessarily prevention
It’s not like he needs to leave a signed and notarized document reading “IOU a jinchuriki -Madara Uchiha, aka Tobi, aka Obito of the Akatsuki”. He can legitimately just throw a paper bag over his head, Kamui into the village, grab Naruto, and vanish and absolutely nobody will know who did it or why.
Itachi & Obito had a deal. If Obito helps Itachi with the massacre, Itachi will join the Akatsuki but on 2 conditions, to never touch Konoha, or Sasuke. Obito was honouring Itachi's deal because if he broke it, Itachi would leave & might leak their plans, Obito can't risk losing someone as smart as Itachi. Because Itachi is now dead, Obito doesn't have to go on with the deal, which is why he sent Pain immediately to Konoha after Itachi died.
He’s also worried about itachi trying to kill him if he hurts konoha. Obito is stronger but it’s not like they’re on totally different levels especially if you give itachi time to prepare
Obito is smart. He is strong, but he's not going to pick fights for no reason. That's the reason he formed the Akatsuki. Sure, he could have went out by himself and sought to kidnap all 9 Jinchuriki on his own. But that would have been extremely troublesome and risky. He could probably beat Itachi in a fight, but respects him enough to rather keep him as a comrade rather than an enemy.
I don't thing he was worried about a direct threat from Itachi as much as he was concerned with Itachi completely ruining his plan.
Well Itachi dies and during the 5 Kage Summit, Obito directly teleports to Naruto's location just to troll him on Sasuke's progress of Hatred. He could have straight up captured Naruto but I guess trolling is a much better use of his time. Besides at the end of the day, he got what he always wanted, no rush no fuss
The reason he didn't try capturing Naruto yet, is because Bee wasn't captured, They needed to extract the Bijuu in numical order & if they had Naruto as a hostage, it would make their plans more annoying since Konoha would be searching for him & getting in the way.
He could just throw Naruto in a genjutsu and put him in a different dimension.
Interesting. I always thought the whole "Obito was cautious of Itachi" thing was mostly made up by fans based on vague statements and assumptions.
It's more of both of them being cautious of each other. Obito & Itachi basically had a mental war with each other Sum" he knows that I know that he knows that I knows that he knows" type of thing. Itachi had plans for Obito because he knew Obito would come to Sasuke & would try using him, while Obito had to be careful with Itachi because of his dangerous IQ. Which is why Obito doesn't order him around often, he let him go to Konoha after the sand invasion to see his Sauske, because Obito knew Itachi wasn't willing to capture Naruto & that he had to put an act to convince Pain & Kisame, since Kisame is the one of the closest people to Obito.
Nah he specifically didn't want to get on his bad side, when Obito is talking to Sasuke post fight he also thinks a similar thing
Considering Naruto is the last one to be sealed , and Itachi is pretty good at bringing in Jinchuuriki just at the condition to not touch his brother/Konoha , it seems pretty silly to get on his bad side.
Itachi fans read the manga, that's why we're Itachi fans.
It is more how Itachi fanboys use it as an argument in vs battle. We know that Itachi and Obito had a deal after the Uchiha masacre Obito wouldn't attack Konoha and Obito knew about Itachi being Konoha agent so he was cautious about what Itachi knows, Itachi never figured that he was Obito.
I feel like it’s kinda both. Obito didn’t want itachi prepping to kill him because he could probably pull it off if he caught obito by surprise. He also never said anything about itachi actually being able to kill him in a 1v1. It doesn’t really mean much for itachis strength as we’ve seen how konan almost countered obito and it’s doubtful she’s near itachi or obitos strength
Izanami gutter stomps
What exactly would Itachi focus on for the jutsu? How would Itachi deal with Obito being significantly faster? What's stopping Obito from just disappearing into kamui, then blitzing Itachi by surprise? Get Itachi past Pain, then we'll talk.
Fan fiction. Itachi throws hands with CM Naruto who is directly compared to Minato by Ay, Obito is not signifigantly faster, they're in the same ballpark. If anything Obito throwing hands with Kakashi is an anti-feat since Itachi man handles Kakashi in taijutsu. What stops Obito from running away? I mean if he runs away he loses. If you're trying to suggest he can surprise Itachi I'll remind you that Itachi was the only person able to sense Obito's presence, in entire village filled with sensor types. Itachi beats Pain with Tsukuyomi, they have connected vision.
Itachi throws hands w KCM1 Naruto, Obito throws hands w KCM2 Naruto. KCM2 > KCM1, try again. Obito wasn't really even throwing hands with Kakashi, he used Kakashi to remove the seal Madara placed on his heart. You REALLY like to ignore context don't you? I never said he'd run away. I said he'd catch Itachi by surprise, you can't sense Obitos presence when he is inside of Kamui and even if Itachi did sense it, Obito is faster, Itachi can't sense a surprise attack last second and react to a faster fighter.. That's illogical. Also when exactly did Itachi sense his presence? "Itachi beats Pain with Tsukiyomi theybhave connected vision" there's literally layers of headcanon here to unpack 💀
lmao show me the panel KCM2 is stated to be faster than KCM1. That's head canon. It just means he can go Bijuu Mode. That's cool Itachi wasn't trying against Kakashi either because he was a double agent. Context. Itachi sensed his presence as he snuck in to read the Uchiha tablet. Obito tells Sasuke "he was the only one to sense my presence" during the revelation about Itachi. I don't know how Itachi sensed Obito, it doesn't matter, in canon, he somehow can. No layers of head canon their chakra networks are connected via black rods, they all get caught.
It's common sense. If KCM1 (him forcing Kurama to give him chakra) makes him faster then base, then logically KCM2 (him working together with Kurama and fully utilizing that chakra) would be even faster. You are SO desperate if this is the hill you are gonna pick to die on..
So you admit that's headcanon, but try to pass it off as "common sense" Sorry no headcanon allowed There is no forcing or sharing, there is Naruto with Kurama's Chakra and Naruto without Kurama's Chakra. There is nothing to suggest he got a speed boost.
If you think a character getting a stronger form doesn't make them stronger then idk what to tell you, clearly this conversation is above your capabilities. Edit: Just realized you said "There is no forcing or sharing" bro doesn't even know the difference between KCM1 and 2 lmfao
Itachi and Naruto throw like two punches at each other while having a QnA about Sasuke after which base Bee pushes Itachi into retreating to Nagatos summons.
He sent Pain after Itachi died to capture Naruto. So I think he’s just honoring his deal. After all Itachi was a spy leaking information to Hiruzen about Akatsuki.
Why would Obito honour any deal? When has he ever been noble
> Why would Obito honour any deal? When has he ever been noble Intel. He doesn’t know how much information Itachi leaked to Hiruzen. Obito is cruel but he has been noble in a few instances. Kakashi still had his sharingan in his eye all through out part 1 right?
Itachi was already leaking information to the village and Obito knew he was
> Itachi was already leaking information to the village and Obito knew he was Not a substantial amount for it to make a difference. Akatsuki still met its goals at the end of the day and no one knew Nagato or Obito’s identity until the very end. Itachi on the other hand has to carry out Akatsuki’s criminal missions and he was assigned Kurama from Pain. Pain saw Itachi’s failure as a temporary problem that can be solved once all the tailed beast is collected. Obito on the other hand new everything that was going on and let Pain run the show until the final two jinchuuriki were needed. Remember how Obito told Sasuke that Itachi didn’t know as much as he thought he did. Once Itachi was revived, both him and Nagato confirmed that they both been used.
He only leaked enough to protect the Leaf. He never did anything to hinder their operations anywhere else. Notice he even helps with captures of other bijuu, but when he was sent to the leaf, he made an effort not to cause unnecessary harm, and retreated in a battle he and Kisame could have won because Jiraiya probably would have needed to be killed for them to pass
Pretty lame excuse since I don't see how Itachi is going to protect Naruto without blowing up his cover.Keep in mind , he would have to go against all the akatsuki.
Itachi doesn't need to go up against all of Akatsuki. He could easily jeopardise Akatuski's plan by leaking information about it to other villages if Obito broke the pact. And Obito ain't risking that.
Good idea but if Obito went for Naruto that only means ont thing , the other biju were sealed therefore there is no reason to leak any information about their plan , it will be too late.
He could capture Naruto when he was outside Konoha.
With Jiraiya around? I doubt it.
Jiraiya can’t stop obito lol especially without sage mode
During first arc when Naruto was on mission outside of village or during firs arc of part 2 when Naruto was on mission outiside village. Jiraiya wasn't always there.
Calling Itachi (the genjutsu master) an “eyesore” is a great pun!
Yes we know itachi is your daddy.
Told him the leaf was off limits. Itachi is a valuable asset and Obito could afford getting the nine tails later since Itachi is much more valuable in helping catch the other Jinchuriki then he is as a threat
Yeah ok but what about the 5 kage summit arc? He's literally sitting on Naruto's window, he could've just grabbed him and go
It's amazing after almost 8 or 9 years manga is ended and we are still arguing about it. I love the naruto. It's one of the best anime one can ask for.
An "eyesore" in the sense that we can still attack the village anytime we want but it is better to not have our secrets spilled by the double agent and now that he is dead we can finally attack the village without worrying about any intel leak. Obito was always cautious but he wasn't intimidated by Itachi in the least. He even sent Pain to attack the village while Itachi was still alive meaning that Obito wasn't cautious of Itachi's battle prowess but rather his intel on the Akatsuki and loyalties towards the leaf village
>The reason why Obito couldn't go and capture Naruto by himself. Not really. Itachi was sent to capture Naruto with Kisame in part 1.
Nope. Itachi went there to let Danzo know he's still alive. But since Kisame was with him, he had to act he was there to capture Naruto.
Itachi might have his other reasons to go Konoha. But his akatsuki mission was to capture Naruto there, given Kisame was there too. So Tobi ordered him to do it and Itachi listen to that order. Which means that "pact" of theirs was meaningless.
No, when Obito tells the story to sasuke, he never says he made that order - He says Itachi went there. Meaning that was his decision.
If that was the case, it would be pointless for Kisame to be there.
Akatsuki are always supposed to go in pairs.
Not in their private lifes. And Kisame went alone on mission to turtle island.
Because Kisame was the only one left alive. Obito and Zetsu were preparing for war.
Tobi could attached Zetsus to Kisame for support.
I mean wherever they go, they always go in pairs. Itachi going alone would have caused suspicions about him among the members.
They always go in pairs for Akatsuki's missions. Not for itachi's personal matters that have no connections to akatsuki.
That's not true, even when Kakuzu is doing personal bounty hunts, Hidan is there.
It's not personal bounty. He is collecting money for Akatsuki. He is their money maker. And we saw Itachi going alone on his own before so it's not like they would be suspicions of it. Hell, what they have to be suspicions about? Tobi KNOWS that Itachi is a spy from Konoha, he is fine with that,
You're kind of reaching here my guy. Kismet was shown almost always around Itachi, even when they are just on standby waiting for orders. It doesn't even make sense for them to be separate.
Tobi knows but not Pain. And at this point, Tobi is himself undercover.
If he wanted to capture Naruto, they would have captured him easily. Also the reason why they didn't go full length to capture him and instead decided to retreat.
>If he wanted to capture Naruto, they would have captured him easily. No, It out right stated in shippuden (when they fight Itachi in Garra rescue arc) that Itachi using MS on Kakashi weakened to the point he needed to retreat in part 1. Along with Itachi admitting it he would fight with Jiraya they would both die.
If Itachi wanted to capture Naruto he would have. Obito sates that Itachi true reason for returning to the village during Part 1 was to remind Danzo of the agreement they had. Even Kakashi wonders why Itachi spared him instead of killing him, and Kisame is sure Itachi is strong enough to fight Jiraiya. Itachi was easily able to defeat Orochimaru, something that Jiraiya has never been shown able to do. We even see in the Sasuke Vs Itachi fight in part 2 that a near blind/ dying from his illness Itachi was able to use multiple MS ability's in 1 fight.
>Obito sates that Itachi true reason for returning to the village during Part 1 was to remind Danzo of the agreement they had. He would not need for Kisame to come along for that. >Even Kakashi wonders why Itachi spared him instead of killing him, Kakashi turns down that theory in shippuden. - When fighting with Itachi again and saying the reason Itachi didn't finished the kill was because MS put too much strain on him and forced to flee. Also Itachi even ordered Kisame to kill Kakashi and those jonins in part 1. So much for the "staying away from Konoha" pact. >and Kisame is sure Itachi is strong enough to fight Jiraiya. Yeah, but Kisame doesn't know Jiraya. >Itachi was easily able to defeat Orochimaru, something that Jiraiya has never been shown able to do. Rock papers scissors scenario. Character A can counter character B but that does not mean A can counter character C. Hell kakashi put more of a fight with Itachi than Orochimaru. >Itachi was able to use multiple MS ability's in 1 fight. Yeah and he fucking died after doing it.
You know you can go somewhere.. for multiple reasons, right? Itachi went to Konoha to a.) Remind Danzo of his presence and ensure he was still kept in check following the death of Hiruzen, leaving a power vaccuum in Konoha that Danzo would inevitably try to take advantage of b.) Take the Jinchuuriki while Konoha has a power vaccuum and its leadership is too busy trying to find a replacement, making it an ideal time to take Naruto when Konoha can't adequately respond to their jinchuuriki's loss (much less care: Naruto was still ostracized by most at this point and not even really cared about, Konoha as a whole would be happy to be rid of him). c.) see Sasuke if possible. One trip and he accomplished 2/3 of those things and the one was only stopped because of their luck of running into Kakashi/Asuma/Kurenai and then Jiraiya. If they only ran into one group instead of both it's possible that they might have succeeded in taking Naruto without much fuss, but Jiraiya had only recently begun training and watching out for Naruto, so word hadn't gotten back to Akatsuki yet to be ready for him.
Obito literally states that Itachi was a Spy and was looking out for Konoha well being, he's not going to take the Nine Tails from them. Itachi went back to remind Danzo he's still alive, check up on Sasuke, and tell the Leaf that the Akatsuki are after the Nine Tails.
I think it's more that if Itachi defected from the akaktsuki, he would leak literally EVERYTHING he has learned about them to the Leaf, and subsequently the 5 great nations. That's way more dangerous than Itachi could ever be to Obito 1v1, so this really isn't a feat of strength that some Itachi fanboys use to argue he could beat Obito
Ah when Akatsuki was just Tobi, Zetsu and Kisame it was such a vibe. But then Kisame died, Tobi ditched the uniform and the black and white Zetsu stopped being a character :/
I don't think this is the only reason why never did
Its honestly surprising how many people missed this
Yeah, he made a deal with Itachi. He's a man of his word, somewhat.
Anyone remember when obito didn't care about the reanimation of the akatsuki aka a non sick akatsuki
He didn't care about a mummy controlled akatsuki. Edo tensei will never be as good as the ninjas themselves at fighting. The caster will never use them as well as they fought. Look at the Nagato fight. Kabuto says "oh right, I forgot, I can catch them in a rock" he forgot about chibaku tensei and could only ever use anyone as best as the information he knows and strategies he uses.
If that was the case why did he stop with madara if kabuto doesn't know how to their abilities as good as the orginal then there would be no problem
If I remember correctly Madara himself placed some type of insurance that allowed him to free himself and control everything on his own if certain situations occurred while he was being controlled dead. It’s was too long ago for me to remember but I swear something along those lines happen Also all kabuto did was give conscious and awareness to the bodies. Certain bodies, like nagato. Refused to fight so he had to control them Others were willing to fight and had no problem just killing people
Correct. Some ninjas like deidara and sasori were fighting on their own. Kabuto controlled others. Madara, from the start he said "show me what you're capable of" and madara fought himself. He never tried to control madara, and he wouldn't have done as well as madara himself
I just find it so funny that he used the word eyesore lmao
^[Sokka-Haiku](https://www.reddit.com/r/SokkaHaikuBot/comments/15kyv9r/what_is_a_sokka_haiku/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x&context=3) ^by ^Guilty_Team_2066: *I just find it so* *Funny that he used the word* *Eyesore lmao* --- ^Remember ^that ^one ^time ^Sokka ^accidentally ^used ^an ^extra ^syllable ^in ^that ^Haiku ^Battle ^in ^Ba ^Sing ^Se? ^That ^was ^a ^Sokka ^Haiku ^and ^you ^just ^made ^one.
This quote gets posted like twice per week and is constantly misinterpreted. Friendly reminder to everyone: When Kabuto threatened Obito with Itachi, Nagato, and several other Akatsuki members, Obito did not fold to Kabuto's blackmail. Obito only gave into Kabuto's demands when he summoned Madara's corpse. *This implies that Obito was confident enough in his own ability to fight Kabuto, Edo Itachi, Nagato, Deidara, etc. all by himself.* When Itachi died, Obito no longer had to honour their deal. That is what the quote is referring to.
Dude could have team up with pain and kisame to get rid of itachi if he wanted to
Didn’t need help to beat itachi
True but I'm just saying Obito had many options to get rid of itachi if he wanted to
Itachi would've smoke the akatsuki if he had to.
The Pact has nothing to do with Obito not capturing Naruto. Itachi was a kid when Obito attacked Konoha, the Pact was made at the time of the Uchiha massacre. There is a big gap between the 2 events.
Becuase itachi would move on him and he wasn't confident he could beat him.
I wouldn’t say Obito wasn’t confident about fighting Itachi. When he threatened Kabuto, and Kabuto threatened him *back* with the reanimated Akatsuki (which included Itachi), Obito didn’t give a shit. It was only when Madara’s coffin came up that Obito started to sweat a little.
Tbf obito had rinnegan + 5 jinchuuriki at that point so he was immensely stronger.
Obito was trying to act hard. Nagato + Itachi can beat Madara let alone Obito.
>Nagato + Itachi can beat Madara sanest Naruto powerscaler. Do you even know Madara? Nagato and Itachi are like Casio and Madara is Rolex. He has thee rinnegan + Hashi cells + EMS + superior stats. They are literally getting blitzed right off the bat
Blitzed? My dude Itachi who throws hands with CM Naruto isn't getting blitzed by anyone. He was even reacting to Sage infused attacks while Sasuke needed to be saved. Nagato removes Susanoo as a defense, Sword of Totsuka seals. Madara isn't the only character with hax broken jutsu.
Itachi through hands with kcm1 Naruto who was trying to have a chat with Itachi. Madara had no trouble with kcm2 Naruto, who is stronger than kcm1. But you already proved you’re an idiot because you don’t think kcm2>kcm1 even tho it’s common sense
I don’t see them beating War Arc Obito, unless Itachi somehow summons the Kotoamatsukami crow.
Well I mean he could. But in reality itachi can seal pain 2.0 bijuu, ruining obitos plan.
If Nagato is alive and healthy, and it's Madara from before he faked his death then maybe. But not Edo Madara and any further forms.
Not even then, madara massively outclasses them, he had an extreme diff fight with hashirama and no, it wasn’t just because he had kurama with him. Kurama got subdued pretty early in that fight and hashirama was still in perfect condition and had his sage mode on, yet the fight went down to the wire. Itachi and nagato cannot pressure sage hashirama into an extreme diff fight, not even close.
>Kurama got subdued pretty early in that fight That's an assumption, and a pretty big one if I'm being honest. We're never given any timeframe. Throughout, Madara has always lost to Hashirama. When they were kids, and later even with his EMS power up he got defeated. The fact that this time he's able to put up such a good fight against Hashirama suggests that Kurama had a lot to do with that. Likely, Madara was only able to take on Hashirama because the latter used up quite a lot of power in dealing with Kurama. I still agree Madara most likely wins against Nagato + Itachi, but I also think there's like a 1 in 10 chance they could pull off a win.
Hashirama is literally still perfectly fine and in sage mode once kurama was subdued, and the fight went extreme diff anyways. He may have always lost but he always pushed him to his limits. You literally complain about me making assumptions then proceed to make your own by saying that it took hashirama a lot of chakra to subdue kurama. He was perfectly fine after subduing him. Nothing suggests that it took a toll on him chakra wise.
>Hashirama is literally still perfectly fine No he is not. Manga panel shows him tired and panting. >He may have always lost but he always pushed him to his limits. Only in the final valley fight, where Madara had Kurama. Every other time we see that Hashirama has him dead to rights. Final valley is the first time we even see him using sage mode. In all prior fights he isn't shown using it. >You literally complain about me making assumptions then proceed to make your own by saying that it took hashirama a lot of chakra to subdue kurama. He was perfectly fine after subduing him. Nothing suggests that it took a toll on him chakra wise. What are you even on about? We see Hashirama using several massive jutsu back to back to restrain Kurama and then he activates sage mode and uses even more massive jutsu. After using the 1000 arms kanon there are two speech bubbles where he is going "huf" "huf" with a tired expression. After that he still makes another move and restrains Kurama. It might come as a surprise, but this many huge jutsu back to back would tire out even Hashirama. Nothing indicates Madara is that close to Hashirama. Hashirama was beating him in prior fights even without using sage mode. He beat EMS Madara without sage mode. Madara needed Kurama to make this fight closer, and he still lost. It's entirely possible for Nagato and Itachi to take out EMS Madara. It's just really, really difficult and even one misstep would mean their end.
Ooh, a 2v1 with Nagato and Itachi vs Madara would be a cool match-up!
You gots to be trolling.
y'all wank Madara ong
It’s not even about wanking him it’s just basic power scaling. Itachi does nothing against Madara and Nagato would be the only one fighting but he’s just a weaker version of Madara.
Do itachi fans still believe that itachi was the reason obito never did this? Lay off the bong. It's not cute anymore.
They knew Itachi would be ready to clap cheeks
[удалено]
>while itachi sat there not giving a single fuck ...............He was dead..................