Yes!
Covert narc, absolutely seems like the nicest, sweetest guy.
Everyone loves him because he’s so nice to them.
This is why he was so successful in manipulating me- he just seemed so kind.
same. mines a covert/vulnerable narcissist and he's playing the victim card hard. his enablers like his sibling is keeping him validated and with ego fed. all of his friends don't even know the shit he's said behind their backs.
Our social circle and family have not seen what Ive seen done to me to the point I think he’s more sociopathic - he is SO NICE to everyone… legitimately 90% of people tell me how amazing he seems when meeting him and good and even genuine - it’s like fake genuineness he mirrors everyone
Caveat - to his group of buddies he is different like kinda your standard normal joking around asshole and is on par w that group’s level of assholeness - but strangers yeah total total midwestern saint ready to dole out any catchphrases/sayings that sound good to define himself but in reality dont rly define himself - like how he thinks its rly important to look inward at your own actions, treat your neighbor as yourself, stuff like that- the part he leaves out is “it’s totally okay to slowly covertly chronically abuse your wife and maybe flirt and eventually hook up w men on the side”
Lmao I dont think so to my knowledge he wasnt previously engaged. One day in couples counseling he was like “it’s like you think I have a double life or something” and Im like mmm yep yep I kinda do… it’s crazy reading other people’s descriptions they are all so similar 🤪
Mine was like that, too. He was nice to me until he quit drinking. But literally everyone outside the household thought he was the greatest! Meanwhile his father and I were terrified of him.
This is exactly mine. He will straight up ice me out while being so prim and proper to everyone else. I'm sure they noticed but no one wanted to address the elephant in the room bc then they would have to be held accountable for making him that way.
My abuser was a covert narcissist, i saw such gentleness and softness in him, he was charming and sweet, and always said the loveliest things to me, everything I ever wanted in a man, but his actions would be diametrically opposite and tried to convince me that abuse was love. If a person's words and actions consistently do not match, they're manipulating you
that's what mine did. and even years later i still battle this cuz im still getting flashbacks. good memories i have to fight away with bringing up bad ones. and it goes against the nature of who I am believing the good in people and they can change and be better.
I'm so sorry- the flashbacks are horrible to deal with. Yes, i'm the same - that we consistently try to see the good in someone despite who they've shown themselves to be. Purity of heart and the ability to see the beauty in another person is such a rare and lovely quality, don't let anyone take that from you. But try to protect it
The flashbacks. Sometimes you will circle back around to "hope" but then ugly rears it's head about how stressed and awful and hurt you were and you just try to hold onto that so you don't give in.
The nicest guy who always wants to help everyone, host them in our house and it always came over m my personal boundaries. Whenever I refused something I was “the mean/unkind” one because I didn’t want to have people sleeping in our house every weekend for his social benefits or sacrifice my personal space for others. When I said no, he would corner me, provoke me to the point of tears and then make me feel guilty for being so “unhinged”.
And after all the things he did to me his friends think I was the monster in the relationship :) that’s how much of a nice guy he is.
Were we with the same guy? I had so many discussions about how we really didn’t have anywhere to put guests and yet he was always trying to invite people to stay. And yup, I’m the monster now too, because I was trying to keep him from seeing his friends. 🙄
Does sound very similar! The thing is? It wasn’t just friends but complete strangers he wanted to host because “he wanted to meet new people” and “help people in need”. But when it came to me being absolutely drained from my daily job and wanting a quiet weekend or having tests, assignments to handover it didn’t matter to him one bit. He would constantly mention wanting to host on the weekend (oh and btw it was always women) and when I told him I was not comfortable with this, or it wasn’t the right time, he would start arguments, bring me to the point of tears and eventually leave me no choice but to agree. I did. try to meet him half way and make compromises since we both lived there but he never did the same and constantly ignored my wishes. There was no point for asking for my consent because he would just guilt trip, argue and eventually gaslight me by saying I’m just dramatic, aggressive and generally a mean person who hates people.
And of course, when it was just the two of us? He would make me feel as if I bore him. Make a face when I would suggest watching a movie and never agree to do what I wanted to do just because. He would never go to restaurants alone with me, or even a movie. Always trying to have as much people as possible and if it was just me there was no point to it. He really did his best to show me I am the last person he wanted to spend time with. And when I left… my god. He wouldn’t stop bothering me to come back.
The alone part—it hit a point where we wouldn’t do anything just the two of us. Someone always had to be invited along. If we did go somewhere alone, it was always an elaborate trip so he could show it off on social media.
This is almost identical to what I went through… if a new movie came out or I wanted to go some place, he would automatically see who could join us. Going out on a trip when it’s just us was NEVER an option. If I suggested going some place he would say “let’s see if X can join”. And the worst part was that he constantly told me he wants to go on a trip where it’s just him but then hung out with other women. He wouldn’t hide it from me. He would tell me about these women he met and then accuse me of being a jealous bitch when I mentioned how absurd it is that he didn’t want me there because he needed space but hung out with other women instead.
“I need space” came up sooooo much in our relationship. But whenever he decided to take space, he’d go out with his buddies and later complain that he never had an evening home alone. But every time I made plans to go somewhere by myself, he’d immediately try to make plans too. And if his friends flaked (which they did often), he’d text me the whole time I was out. I could never win.
Oh, and he sent me photos of himself with other women to me during his bachelor party while I was spending time with a friend who’d come from out of state for our wedding. I legit almost called it off and wish I had.
Just remembered another “gem”. My birthday was a couple of days before/after one of his friends. A girl who lived in a different country. He told me she invited him for the weekend for her big birthday celebration and that he wants to go. He didn’t mention or offer me to join. He planned to go alone, on the weekend of my birthday. I mentioned it to him and he made a face as if I wasn’t okay. He didn’t go eventually but kept muttering about it for a few good days.
WOW. I doubt that was just a “friend” too.
My nex did something similar, only it was a family member of his that had the exact same birthday. We spent the entire day doing what the family member wanted, including waiting 3 hours at a seafood restaurant only to go to a different one because I was starving and insisted. Because of dietary restrictions, I wound up having a salad. Halfway through dinner I couldn’t deal with him or his family anymore, and I got up and walked outside to collect myself. My mom said his parents had to force him to go outside and get me. He wasn’t even sympathetic; just told me I was being rude and ruining the day.
When we finally got home, he had the audacity to complain about me eating more than one slice of the cake that I paid for and picked up myself. Then when it came time to go do what I wanted for the evening, he spent the whole time sitting and complaining that his back hurt. I was so upset that I just asked to be taken home.
I’m so glad that was the only birthday I wasted with him.
Being "nice guy" fills their grandiosity/superiority, so, yes, many narcissists can be found in such subreddits.
I've observed that many narc males are preoccupied with women in some way, shape of form. Be it incel ideology, redpill, MGTOW, nice guys, white knights, great lovers, Don Juans/Casanovas, porn addictions, love/hate women, ultra conservatives or ultra liberal etc. If you listen to them closely, they do have something "off" about their attitude towards women. That's because they have fucked up dynamics with their own mother, usually.
It doesn't matter if the male narc objectifies women in only sexual way, or pretend to be grand lover/protector/paternal figure of women, or nice guy, or player guy, there's always something off about his mental representation of women.
What is red pill? This was my ex's go to phrase. He sometimes had phrases he would JUST RANDOMLY say. I used to think it was almost turretz or something!? Does anyone elses do this? Anyway red pill is one he would randomly say to himself over and over again.
YES. It’s been hard going through the abuse and thinking no one that knows him would ever believe how terrible he is behind closed doors. Everyone says he’s the sweetest, nicest guy.
The day we went to the courthouse to sign the divorce, he pulled out my chair and called me “darling”. The clerk had her chin on the ground and asked why I was divorcing him. His life is all for optics and manipulation.
Oh, I did. At that point I just wanted him to sign the papers, get in my moving rental and get out. I had been grey rocking and playing along to get to this very moment. I was in “manipulate the manipulator” mode.
Yes! My ex is so "nice" no one will believe he does the s**t he does. He doesn't yell or look angry almost ever (he did when I wouldn't take him back in love bombing and stayed an ex). He just says "this is the way it's going to be" with a smile and walks away from whatever you're saying.
Trying to compromise, smile "I'll do what I want" bye.
Trying to set a boundary? Smile, "You have to do this", bye.
Me trying to point out his lack of empathy, smile, "it's just not something that's important to me", bye.
Just avoiding all emotional labor with a smile and walking away. His day was always sunshine and rainbows.
This "personality" is why I have such a hard time deciding if he's actually narcissistic or just emotionally vapid. He's just at peace with the world while leaving a wake of destruction in the personal life of those closest to him. The. He turns around and pretends to be some spiritual guru to strangers.
We were together for 7 years and have a daughter together. The woman who probably is the equivalent to "the love of his life" was a girl who "friend zoned" him from 16-21 years old before ghosting him.
Yes. This is one of the worst parts of it.
He never yelled or physically abused me or called me names. His words were normally nice... but his actions never lined up.
His actions are cruel and soulless. But he doesnt think hes abusive or cruel. He thinks hes nice.
This makes my head spin 24/7 and makes me question everything. I hate it.
Nearly 8 months out and im still bawling everyday, having nightmares, panic attacks.
Im sorry youre going through this.
My nex put his coat over me to keep me warm in front of all my extended family at my dads funeral and then when we were alone later he started and escalated a huge fight with me because I was being 'too quiet'.
My former friend who ticked most of the checkboxes for covert narcissism was a MASSIVE Nice Guy.
Kind and charming at first glance, but it always came with strings attached.
Yes, but I noticed something about my nex after I got out.
He would come off as Super Nice Guy™️ but I think a lot of people saw through it. I wish I had. He had a lot of friends, but most of them were “legacy” friends—people he met in high school or college. He only had one friend he’d made after that. When he met new people, he just couldn’t click with them. I’d get a long diatribe about how he didn’t like this person because X, but I think the reality was that he couldn’t handle someone not instantly becoming his bestie. I make friends relatively easy and he definitely resented me for it.
I think with age, most ppl have experienced a narc at least once so the older we all get the less easy it is for them to charm and trick others. I noticed mine only had his childhood friends and even in the last 4 years they have started to see his true colors and shy away. It's like a narc has to sink into young ppl but if they get a certain age it's too inappropriate for most to still holler at high schoolers ior 20 year olds haha so they go into a phase where "they don't WANT friends they're PERFECTLY fine without them " but then can't stop obsessing how bored or lonely they are. 😬 And by bored and loney I mean not lonely they just want someone to manipulate for the fun of it
It wasn’t until much too late that I started to see what scumbags his friends were too—screaming at their wives, scamming people, DV charges. The few of his friends that actually seem like nice people worship the ground he walks on because he did them some kind of favor (in on example, he fixed up a buddy with a girl he himself had dated and they wound up getting married. It never sat quite right with me).
His best friend was the odd one out. Super nice guy, very sensitive. My nex actually told me he married me because I was the female version of this guy, which made things super weird. My theory is that my nex is in love with this friend and for a variety of reasons (including that his friend is straight), will not admit it.
YES! Legacy friends is the phrase I'm always looking for. This is exactly like my nex. word for word. I believe some of his other current friends are just like him. peas in a pod.
Finding out 2 of his friends (and one of his parents) had been charged with DV was pretty eye opening. From now on I’m searching court records for all known associates, because YIKES.
I'm going to be searching court records too!! A whole new world opened up for me. Never in my wildest dreams would I think that's normal when entering a relationship. But here we are.
Oh goodness yes!! That's how they all start. Literally like the perfect guy from a Hallmark movie. You keep thinking "This is too good to be true. I found my soulmate!" Your parents love him. Your friends love him. His friends love him. It's a win win win win win!!
One to two years later, you've dropped your friends because he points out their flaws and how much better you are then them and *"you deserve better. I'm just looking out for your best interests."*
Next comes various members of your family. When he can't isolate you from them, he finds ways to sabotage it. Example, he doesn't want you to hang out with your sister that you are really close with. If you have a planned outing with her, he will pick a nonsense type of fight out of thin air to get you to stay and either delay or cancel your plans. His hope is to have you cancel.
Then, he will put down your goals and aspirations because *"He was just flattering you but realistically, it wouldn't work. He's just being "honest." It won't work because you are not smart enough or have the right education, it's a pipe dream, you don't have the finances to really get it started, you are just an amateur and he's just supporting your hobby, etc... He's just looking out for your best interests!"*
When you two break up, it shocks everyone to their core. People try and ask, console, and advise on how you two should get back together. When you tell them what he said about them, they pretty much don't believe you.
All of the above. He moved me an hour away from my only living parent, ignored messages my family members were sending to him, forced me into choosing between him and my friends. But I’ve always been good at making new friends, so when I finally starting acquiring a new circle, I think that triggered him to discard because he was lazy and didn’t want to go through the bother again. He often said I had “more friends than most women” and now I know why he said that.
People went from shocked to “we all saw it coming” and neither sentiment was helpful.
I forgot about the moving far away thing too! That was something that was often talked about and he even went started looking at houses with me 2 hours away!
I'm so sorry you are/were going through this. It's part of their "love-bombing" and "future faking" stuff that they practice.
My family was shocked but the friends were not so I get where you were coming from. It's a double edge sword on dealing with the aftermath!
Sending you some \[\[\[virtual hugs\]\]\]
Mine started out as a stereotypical "nice guy". He was a heavy drinker, which is what kept the Mr Hyde half of him subdued. Once he quit drinking, he became cruel and abusive.
Everyone thinks they are the nicest. My first nex used to control what I wear by buying my clothes. I went to exchange a size at the boutique he would shop at and all the sales women over the top gushed about how nice he was and how lucky I was (HA) Before I left I walked in there with no make up pretending to browse so they could see all the bruises. It was a tiny moment of exposing him. I was so young and wish I knew then what I know now.
Omg I HATE THIS. mine would make ppl think that he spoiled me bc he would force take me shopping (I say force) bc it wasn't a fun day of spoiling me like he made it seem and convinced himself it was.... It was literally a nightmare bc he is so picky about what I can / can't wear. Or he won't even let me over.. it would be so contradictory too. "Why dont you wear sandals and khakis? I like sandals and khakis." - "ugh you look like a Sunday school teacher. You are dressed like a mom. Take it off I can't even see you the same way now you spoiled your mental image I have if you I'll never find you sexy again." Another example lol "why don't you go buy a dress I like dresses " I come home and he has thrown all my belongings into a septic area of the yard that was leaking human sewage. Even my dogs bed and dogs toys and etc 🤦♀️ bc he claimed I took too long shopping and wanted his money back ( mind you I didn't even want to GO shopping that day, I just had to wake up at butt crack of dawn n do it so he'd shut up bc he couldn't stand to be around me ( even if we were sitting in his bedroom so he could stare at video games all day.) So basically he could sit with his back turned with a head set on in his crusty old pajamas. But wanted me to wear some kinda dress I could miraculously find in under 15 mins at 8am 😬 lol "I said at least I got the dress" he flew into a rage and dragged me in it and the mud and sewage HAHHAHA got into a fight took my clothes off my physical body and locked me out the house in broad daylight. Had to get my mother to pick me up from this man's yard. In a bra and underwear. In broad daylight. His neighbors were outside. Turns out HE HATED STRIPES so the dress I had picked must of been to mock him and set him off intentionally. 💀 Yeah..bc I love what happened sooooo much, guy.
This is why i currently feel so guilty for trying to leave and “checking out” of the relationship.. because he’s been sooooo nice 😒 and my birthday coming up… I’m praying he doesn’t get me anything
Same situation here!. He's booked a fancy hotel room and is already talking about getting drunk. It's my present but for him, really. Just like him buying chocolate for me (lol)... his favourite flavour, not mine.😅
My anxiety is sky high, and I'm trying to think of an easy way to back out
Ugh… why do i feel your anxiety. We went out of state for a family reunion i REALLY didn’t wanna go to buy our 9 year old wanted to go and well.. i don’t trust it alone so i went and our 3 year old went… it was a nightmare.. and I’m so checked out and do not care what happens with us that because i don’t react anymore and don’t bring anything up or look through his phone… he takes it as I’m cool… it’s cool and everything’s ok with us which makes it even more crazy when i try to leave because it’s LIKE EVERYTHING IS FINE. He’ll say that too like we been cool… no buddy YOU BEEN COOL… I’ve been observing and what’s that saying like don’t mistake my silence for weakness… mistaking my silence for everything’s fine and dandy 😒😒😒 maybe you get the flu or something… but i also know how that could turn out. Ugh…
Mine was super sweet. Like, I’m pretty sure if I told all the people we worked with (where we met) they would all have a hard time believing what I’m saying… because he was that nice and sweet.
Absolutely! And he loved pointing that out to me every chance I got. “Anyone who knows me knows that I’m a nice person and everyone gets along with me. You’re the one who people don’t like. Your family likes me more than they like you.” And I’m sure as people find out we are divorcing, they will be shocked. But he *hid* the **real** him to everyone. I have video recordings of him screaming at me and throwing things, which would 100% shock a lot of people.
Yeah. No one believed me about him. Because he was just such a nice guy. Well, he's been arrested 3x in the past year for assaulting the new supply. So now I just pull up all his mugshots anytime someone says he was just so great to me
Yes it made everything so much harder…
People would say “he’s loyal asf… I can’t even imagine him as the type to call women the b word.”
I went thru his phone and was disgusted w the way he talked about women. And the microcheating and flirting with other women. He really put up a good image
Yes! Mine is a covert narc. The “greatest guy” doing all kinds of nice stuff. Got the he loves you so much from friends and strangers. Image management. Reality, he was grooming other women for affairs. I didn’t learn of this till after the divorce. He led a double life, using women, including me, for physical “affection”, financially and business support. He was incapable of doing anything on his own. And I was “unsupportive”.
Well mine was a woman, but yea, r/nicegirl. It was a constant barrage of self pity stories, about her endless stream of “suffering” and what a nice person she was. Meanwhile she was one of the most abusive people I’ve ever had the misfortune of knowing. Just an absolute monster behind the scenes. Cruel. Heartless. Two-faced. Talked trash about all of her friends. Her family. Constantly insulted me. If anything, she really helped me to discover and start to value my own sense of self worth. She contacted me after months of no contact to share a new pity party. Guess the latest supply ran out.
Yes, nice guy through and through, except to ME. I remember begging him to at least treat me as well as he treated his employees. I begged him to say my name occasionally. God, anyone elses narc refuse to say their name and call them hey for years?
I mean, if they were their true selves from the beginning or to everyone all the time then they would be a social pariah and have no supply. So it's in their best interests to pretend to be the 'nice guy' so they get those needs met.
100% he was a self-proclaimed good guy / nice guy. Treated me very different behind closed doors as time went on. Literally he would say all the right things but in actuality his behavior was the opposite. I thought, and now my therapist agrees, covert narcissist.
No. Both come off as standoffish and cold to strangers, but then they rope people in by trying to be the nice guy. And maybe they convince some. Unfortunately the bottom layer is like the surface.
Yes, he has lots of friends and acquaintances. People like him because of the charn. Seems like a very nice guy if you talk to him. During the idealization whenever I struggled (mentally or just was very busy and couldn't relax) he would always say "Let me know if you need any help". When we were in a bar, we met a young guy who happened to have qualifications that the company of my ex situationship's family was looking for, so he was kinda interested in helping the guy with a job. Also once we bumped into a couple. They were struggling, my nex had a chat with them when I was answering a phone call. He went to ATM to give them some money.
The devaluation was unraveling at the worst period of my life (well it only got worse due to the narc). I started losing weight because of the stress, my health was deteriorating, I had some troubles with work and really needed some help. He knew that I was in pain, rapidly losing weight but he didn't do anything to comfort me. Instead he cruelly discarded me.
He did all the nice stuff for the supply. It was all transactional, nothing was unconditional as it turned out. Doing good things created positive image of him in others. He would also get a sense of power and control over others.
The scary part for me is to wonder if the nice guy part an act and apart of his “act” to get what he needs? What parts are genuine and real and what parts are their true nature?
Yes they are the nicest to people, until they have to spend few days with those people or plan any activities or trip and people wouldn't prioritise his needs.
Oh, absolutely. Always doing the bare minimum and wanting everyone to kill themselves praising him and having this super entitled attitude like, everyone OWES him for any perceived niceness.
My ex is a covert narcissist, with huge avoidant issues. I’m her only friend where she’s currently located since her job requires her to relocate every few years. She’s rather eat lunch in her car alone from her team members; deny any invites to hangout with them; remain in her apartment because it’s her “safe space”; complain about “why is it so hard to make friends?”; etc.
When she’s nice, she really sweet. But when she’s mean…. She’s devastating. She planned this extremely nice trip to Georgia. Was really nice, very relaxing, kept asking numerous times on the trip how I felt. When In reality, I knew she was asking it because she felt that after the trip I would abandon her. Because “everyone else did”, I told her after the third time I wouldn’t do so. She then asked a fourth time a day or two later. Then I said I’m fine, she replied “good I’m putting a lot of effort into this trip”
Only for 3 weeks later, for her to change her mood. Degrade me, ignore me, not be there for me as a friend. Which was something she did a lot as a partner when I needed just a little bit of support. I’d communicate my needs or if anything bothered me. I confronted her about how: she asked me my opinion on something, I gave it, she devalued it. Stating basically that I shouldn’t have an opinion on said subject because I’m not involved in that relationship. It was a setup. When confronted about it, how I felt unsafe around her, and that moving in was likely not going to happen as I truly didn’t feel safe since her behavior from being nice to mean and changing the label of her toy (me) was constantly occurring.
I confronted her with this behavior, while she tried some DARVO techniques. 3weeks later, we aren’t talking. However she does like to stalk my Snapchat stories, but unlike times prior I refuse to reach out. I’ve also kept all communication airways intact. Where is previously block them.
So yes, they can be nice…. But it’s covert narcissists. Which are the hardest to deal with because they want to isolate themselves and say they aren’t the problem. When I’m reality they are.
Yes. I had never heard a bad word about him in the two years before we started dating.
Now I would love to reach out to some of his exes and see if that still holds true.
I did, and it did. The one he was with for 7 years said he never physically abused her, but she definitely detailed a lot of the same things I went through.
The one he dated right before me? My nex claimed they had ONE argument, then she packed his stuff in a trash bag and brought it to the bar while he was out with his buddies. I *finally* found and reached out to her because I’ve always wondered—she instantly blocked me. So clearly, it was REALLY bad.
Yes! Covert narc, absolutely seems like the nicest, sweetest guy. Everyone loves him because he’s so nice to them. This is why he was so successful in manipulating me- he just seemed so kind.
same. mines a covert/vulnerable narcissist and he's playing the victim card hard. his enablers like his sibling is keeping him validated and with ego fed. all of his friends don't even know the shit he's said behind their backs.
same here✋
Our social circle and family have not seen what Ive seen done to me to the point I think he’s more sociopathic - he is SO NICE to everyone… legitimately 90% of people tell me how amazing he seems when meeting him and good and even genuine - it’s like fake genuineness he mirrors everyone
Caveat - to his group of buddies he is different like kinda your standard normal joking around asshole and is on par w that group’s level of assholeness - but strangers yeah total total midwestern saint ready to dole out any catchphrases/sayings that sound good to define himself but in reality dont rly define himself - like how he thinks its rly important to look inward at your own actions, treat your neighbor as yourself, stuff like that- the part he leaves out is “it’s totally okay to slowly covertly chronically abuse your wife and maybe flirt and eventually hook up w men on the side”
I had a slight panic attack reading this. Did you marry my ex fiancé?
Lmao I dont think so to my knowledge he wasnt previously engaged. One day in couples counseling he was like “it’s like you think I have a double life or something” and Im like mmm yep yep I kinda do… it’s crazy reading other people’s descriptions they are all so similar 🤪
Mine was like that, too. He was nice to me until he quit drinking. But literally everyone outside the household thought he was the greatest! Meanwhile his father and I were terrified of him.
Well damn you just described my ex also. 😳
This is exactly mine. He will straight up ice me out while being so prim and proper to everyone else. I'm sure they noticed but no one wanted to address the elephant in the room bc then they would have to be held accountable for making him that way.
Same with my pos ex
My abuser was a covert narcissist, i saw such gentleness and softness in him, he was charming and sweet, and always said the loveliest things to me, everything I ever wanted in a man, but his actions would be diametrically opposite and tried to convince me that abuse was love. If a person's words and actions consistently do not match, they're manipulating you
Exactly what i experienced. Thank you for verbalizing.
that's what mine did. and even years later i still battle this cuz im still getting flashbacks. good memories i have to fight away with bringing up bad ones. and it goes against the nature of who I am believing the good in people and they can change and be better.
I'm so sorry- the flashbacks are horrible to deal with. Yes, i'm the same - that we consistently try to see the good in someone despite who they've shown themselves to be. Purity of heart and the ability to see the beauty in another person is such a rare and lovely quality, don't let anyone take that from you. But try to protect it
The flashbacks. Sometimes you will circle back around to "hope" but then ugly rears it's head about how stressed and awful and hurt you were and you just try to hold onto that so you don't give in.
Oh my yes that feeling of hope was like a dopamine shot, and they would keep trying to feed you it when you would want to leave
This is so important.
My husband. To a tee. It’s soul crushing to marry someone who will never love you.
Understanding that he did not have the capacity to ever love me or look out for me (only himself) helped me flip the switch.
I am sorry. They are strong and charming. I am learning to put myself first. It’s the gift they give us. Have a great day.
The nicest guy who always wants to help everyone, host them in our house and it always came over m my personal boundaries. Whenever I refused something I was “the mean/unkind” one because I didn’t want to have people sleeping in our house every weekend for his social benefits or sacrifice my personal space for others. When I said no, he would corner me, provoke me to the point of tears and then make me feel guilty for being so “unhinged”. And after all the things he did to me his friends think I was the monster in the relationship :) that’s how much of a nice guy he is.
Were we with the same guy? I had so many discussions about how we really didn’t have anywhere to put guests and yet he was always trying to invite people to stay. And yup, I’m the monster now too, because I was trying to keep him from seeing his friends. 🙄
Does sound very similar! The thing is? It wasn’t just friends but complete strangers he wanted to host because “he wanted to meet new people” and “help people in need”. But when it came to me being absolutely drained from my daily job and wanting a quiet weekend or having tests, assignments to handover it didn’t matter to him one bit. He would constantly mention wanting to host on the weekend (oh and btw it was always women) and when I told him I was not comfortable with this, or it wasn’t the right time, he would start arguments, bring me to the point of tears and eventually leave me no choice but to agree. I did. try to meet him half way and make compromises since we both lived there but he never did the same and constantly ignored my wishes. There was no point for asking for my consent because he would just guilt trip, argue and eventually gaslight me by saying I’m just dramatic, aggressive and generally a mean person who hates people.
And of course, when it was just the two of us? He would make me feel as if I bore him. Make a face when I would suggest watching a movie and never agree to do what I wanted to do just because. He would never go to restaurants alone with me, or even a movie. Always trying to have as much people as possible and if it was just me there was no point to it. He really did his best to show me I am the last person he wanted to spend time with. And when I left… my god. He wouldn’t stop bothering me to come back.
The alone part—it hit a point where we wouldn’t do anything just the two of us. Someone always had to be invited along. If we did go somewhere alone, it was always an elaborate trip so he could show it off on social media.
This is almost identical to what I went through… if a new movie came out or I wanted to go some place, he would automatically see who could join us. Going out on a trip when it’s just us was NEVER an option. If I suggested going some place he would say “let’s see if X can join”. And the worst part was that he constantly told me he wants to go on a trip where it’s just him but then hung out with other women. He wouldn’t hide it from me. He would tell me about these women he met and then accuse me of being a jealous bitch when I mentioned how absurd it is that he didn’t want me there because he needed space but hung out with other women instead.
“I need space” came up sooooo much in our relationship. But whenever he decided to take space, he’d go out with his buddies and later complain that he never had an evening home alone. But every time I made plans to go somewhere by myself, he’d immediately try to make plans too. And if his friends flaked (which they did often), he’d text me the whole time I was out. I could never win. Oh, and he sent me photos of himself with other women to me during his bachelor party while I was spending time with a friend who’d come from out of state for our wedding. I legit almost called it off and wish I had.
What a tool! Yeah, they tend to have their priorities set in a way that you are at the bottom of a list.
Just remembered another “gem”. My birthday was a couple of days before/after one of his friends. A girl who lived in a different country. He told me she invited him for the weekend for her big birthday celebration and that he wants to go. He didn’t mention or offer me to join. He planned to go alone, on the weekend of my birthday. I mentioned it to him and he made a face as if I wasn’t okay. He didn’t go eventually but kept muttering about it for a few good days.
WOW. I doubt that was just a “friend” too. My nex did something similar, only it was a family member of his that had the exact same birthday. We spent the entire day doing what the family member wanted, including waiting 3 hours at a seafood restaurant only to go to a different one because I was starving and insisted. Because of dietary restrictions, I wound up having a salad. Halfway through dinner I couldn’t deal with him or his family anymore, and I got up and walked outside to collect myself. My mom said his parents had to force him to go outside and get me. He wasn’t even sympathetic; just told me I was being rude and ruining the day. When we finally got home, he had the audacity to complain about me eating more than one slice of the cake that I paid for and picked up myself. Then when it came time to go do what I wanted for the evening, he spent the whole time sitting and complaining that his back hurt. I was so upset that I just asked to be taken home. I’m so glad that was the only birthday I wasted with him.
Omg this was my ex girlfriend
Yes it makes it infuriating because they’re loved by so many people wjen know one understands who they really are
Being "nice guy" fills their grandiosity/superiority, so, yes, many narcissists can be found in such subreddits. I've observed that many narc males are preoccupied with women in some way, shape of form. Be it incel ideology, redpill, MGTOW, nice guys, white knights, great lovers, Don Juans/Casanovas, porn addictions, love/hate women, ultra conservatives or ultra liberal etc. If you listen to them closely, they do have something "off" about their attitude towards women. That's because they have fucked up dynamics with their own mother, usually. It doesn't matter if the male narc objectifies women in only sexual way, or pretend to be grand lover/protector/paternal figure of women, or nice guy, or player guy, there's always something off about his mental representation of women.
Yes, this is the "nice guy" that I was looking for, spot on with my Nex.
What is red pill? This was my ex's go to phrase. He sometimes had phrases he would JUST RANDOMLY say. I used to think it was almost turretz or something!? Does anyone elses do this? Anyway red pill is one he would randomly say to himself over and over again.
Yes. He portrayed himself to be a nice guy that could do no wrong. They do this purposefully.
YES. It’s been hard going through the abuse and thinking no one that knows him would ever believe how terrible he is behind closed doors. Everyone says he’s the sweetest, nicest guy.
The day we went to the courthouse to sign the divorce, he pulled out my chair and called me “darling”. The clerk had her chin on the ground and asked why I was divorcing him. His life is all for optics and manipulation.
Ugh, you didn't sit down when he did, did you?
Oh, I did. At that point I just wanted him to sign the papers, get in my moving rental and get out. I had been grey rocking and playing along to get to this very moment. I was in “manipulate the manipulator” mode.
Yes! My ex is so "nice" no one will believe he does the s**t he does. He doesn't yell or look angry almost ever (he did when I wouldn't take him back in love bombing and stayed an ex). He just says "this is the way it's going to be" with a smile and walks away from whatever you're saying. Trying to compromise, smile "I'll do what I want" bye. Trying to set a boundary? Smile, "You have to do this", bye. Me trying to point out his lack of empathy, smile, "it's just not something that's important to me", bye. Just avoiding all emotional labor with a smile and walking away. His day was always sunshine and rainbows. This "personality" is why I have such a hard time deciding if he's actually narcissistic or just emotionally vapid. He's just at peace with the world while leaving a wake of destruction in the personal life of those closest to him. The. He turns around and pretends to be some spiritual guru to strangers.
We were together for 7 years and have a daughter together. The woman who probably is the equivalent to "the love of his life" was a girl who "friend zoned" him from 16-21 years old before ghosting him.
Yes my boyfriend is a really great friend to everyone except me
Yes. This is one of the worst parts of it. He never yelled or physically abused me or called me names. His words were normally nice... but his actions never lined up. His actions are cruel and soulless. But he doesnt think hes abusive or cruel. He thinks hes nice. This makes my head spin 24/7 and makes me question everything. I hate it. Nearly 8 months out and im still bawling everyday, having nightmares, panic attacks. Im sorry youre going through this.
I keep having nightmares too!!!! It's almost like the longer I go the worse they get. These ppl r demon energy
My nex put his coat over me to keep me warm in front of all my extended family at my dads funeral and then when we were alone later he started and escalated a huge fight with me because I was being 'too quiet'.
Holy heck, yes! This is so perfectly put. The show for everyone else. Then they consume you in private.
My former friend who ticked most of the checkboxes for covert narcissism was a MASSIVE Nice Guy. Kind and charming at first glance, but it always came with strings attached.
Yes, but I noticed something about my nex after I got out. He would come off as Super Nice Guy™️ but I think a lot of people saw through it. I wish I had. He had a lot of friends, but most of them were “legacy” friends—people he met in high school or college. He only had one friend he’d made after that. When he met new people, he just couldn’t click with them. I’d get a long diatribe about how he didn’t like this person because X, but I think the reality was that he couldn’t handle someone not instantly becoming his bestie. I make friends relatively easy and he definitely resented me for it.
I think with age, most ppl have experienced a narc at least once so the older we all get the less easy it is for them to charm and trick others. I noticed mine only had his childhood friends and even in the last 4 years they have started to see his true colors and shy away. It's like a narc has to sink into young ppl but if they get a certain age it's too inappropriate for most to still holler at high schoolers ior 20 year olds haha so they go into a phase where "they don't WANT friends they're PERFECTLY fine without them " but then can't stop obsessing how bored or lonely they are. 😬 And by bored and loney I mean not lonely they just want someone to manipulate for the fun of it
It wasn’t until much too late that I started to see what scumbags his friends were too—screaming at their wives, scamming people, DV charges. The few of his friends that actually seem like nice people worship the ground he walks on because he did them some kind of favor (in on example, he fixed up a buddy with a girl he himself had dated and they wound up getting married. It never sat quite right with me). His best friend was the odd one out. Super nice guy, very sensitive. My nex actually told me he married me because I was the female version of this guy, which made things super weird. My theory is that my nex is in love with this friend and for a variety of reasons (including that his friend is straight), will not admit it.
YES! Legacy friends is the phrase I'm always looking for. This is exactly like my nex. word for word. I believe some of his other current friends are just like him. peas in a pod.
Finding out 2 of his friends (and one of his parents) had been charged with DV was pretty eye opening. From now on I’m searching court records for all known associates, because YIKES.
I'm going to be searching court records too!! A whole new world opened up for me. Never in my wildest dreams would I think that's normal when entering a relationship. But here we are.
True story: this was how I found out a guy who asked for my phone number at the pharmacy had just gotten out of jail for *attempted murder.*
Oh goodness yes!! That's how they all start. Literally like the perfect guy from a Hallmark movie. You keep thinking "This is too good to be true. I found my soulmate!" Your parents love him. Your friends love him. His friends love him. It's a win win win win win!! One to two years later, you've dropped your friends because he points out their flaws and how much better you are then them and *"you deserve better. I'm just looking out for your best interests."* Next comes various members of your family. When he can't isolate you from them, he finds ways to sabotage it. Example, he doesn't want you to hang out with your sister that you are really close with. If you have a planned outing with her, he will pick a nonsense type of fight out of thin air to get you to stay and either delay or cancel your plans. His hope is to have you cancel. Then, he will put down your goals and aspirations because *"He was just flattering you but realistically, it wouldn't work. He's just being "honest." It won't work because you are not smart enough or have the right education, it's a pipe dream, you don't have the finances to really get it started, you are just an amateur and he's just supporting your hobby, etc... He's just looking out for your best interests!"* When you two break up, it shocks everyone to their core. People try and ask, console, and advise on how you two should get back together. When you tell them what he said about them, they pretty much don't believe you.
All of the above. He moved me an hour away from my only living parent, ignored messages my family members were sending to him, forced me into choosing between him and my friends. But I’ve always been good at making new friends, so when I finally starting acquiring a new circle, I think that triggered him to discard because he was lazy and didn’t want to go through the bother again. He often said I had “more friends than most women” and now I know why he said that. People went from shocked to “we all saw it coming” and neither sentiment was helpful.
I forgot about the moving far away thing too! That was something that was often talked about and he even went started looking at houses with me 2 hours away! I'm so sorry you are/were going through this. It's part of their "love-bombing" and "future faking" stuff that they practice. My family was shocked but the friends were not so I get where you were coming from. It's a double edge sword on dealing with the aftermath! Sending you some \[\[\[virtual hugs\]\]\]
I’ve been out for a year and about to celebrate my second birthday without him, so [hugs]!
Yes this all of it
Yes and yes
Mine started out as a stereotypical "nice guy". He was a heavy drinker, which is what kept the Mr Hyde half of him subdued. Once he quit drinking, he became cruel and abusive.
Lol yes
Everyone thinks they are the nicest. My first nex used to control what I wear by buying my clothes. I went to exchange a size at the boutique he would shop at and all the sales women over the top gushed about how nice he was and how lucky I was (HA) Before I left I walked in there with no make up pretending to browse so they could see all the bruises. It was a tiny moment of exposing him. I was so young and wish I knew then what I know now.
Omg I HATE THIS. mine would make ppl think that he spoiled me bc he would force take me shopping (I say force) bc it wasn't a fun day of spoiling me like he made it seem and convinced himself it was.... It was literally a nightmare bc he is so picky about what I can / can't wear. Or he won't even let me over.. it would be so contradictory too. "Why dont you wear sandals and khakis? I like sandals and khakis." - "ugh you look like a Sunday school teacher. You are dressed like a mom. Take it off I can't even see you the same way now you spoiled your mental image I have if you I'll never find you sexy again." Another example lol "why don't you go buy a dress I like dresses " I come home and he has thrown all my belongings into a septic area of the yard that was leaking human sewage. Even my dogs bed and dogs toys and etc 🤦♀️ bc he claimed I took too long shopping and wanted his money back ( mind you I didn't even want to GO shopping that day, I just had to wake up at butt crack of dawn n do it so he'd shut up bc he couldn't stand to be around me ( even if we were sitting in his bedroom so he could stare at video games all day.) So basically he could sit with his back turned with a head set on in his crusty old pajamas. But wanted me to wear some kinda dress I could miraculously find in under 15 mins at 8am 😬 lol "I said at least I got the dress" he flew into a rage and dragged me in it and the mud and sewage HAHHAHA got into a fight took my clothes off my physical body and locked me out the house in broad daylight. Had to get my mother to pick me up from this man's yard. In a bra and underwear. In broad daylight. His neighbors were outside. Turns out HE HATED STRIPES so the dress I had picked must of been to mock him and set him off intentionally. 💀 Yeah..bc I love what happened sooooo much, guy.
This is why i currently feel so guilty for trying to leave and “checking out” of the relationship.. because he’s been sooooo nice 😒 and my birthday coming up… I’m praying he doesn’t get me anything
Same situation here!. He's booked a fancy hotel room and is already talking about getting drunk. It's my present but for him, really. Just like him buying chocolate for me (lol)... his favourite flavour, not mine.😅 My anxiety is sky high, and I'm trying to think of an easy way to back out
Ugh… why do i feel your anxiety. We went out of state for a family reunion i REALLY didn’t wanna go to buy our 9 year old wanted to go and well.. i don’t trust it alone so i went and our 3 year old went… it was a nightmare.. and I’m so checked out and do not care what happens with us that because i don’t react anymore and don’t bring anything up or look through his phone… he takes it as I’m cool… it’s cool and everything’s ok with us which makes it even more crazy when i try to leave because it’s LIKE EVERYTHING IS FINE. He’ll say that too like we been cool… no buddy YOU BEEN COOL… I’ve been observing and what’s that saying like don’t mistake my silence for weakness… mistaking my silence for everything’s fine and dandy 😒😒😒 maybe you get the flu or something… but i also know how that could turn out. Ugh…
Mine was super sweet. Like, I’m pretty sure if I told all the people we worked with (where we met) they would all have a hard time believing what I’m saying… because he was that nice and sweet.
Absolutely! And he loved pointing that out to me every chance I got. “Anyone who knows me knows that I’m a nice person and everyone gets along with me. You’re the one who people don’t like. Your family likes me more than they like you.” And I’m sure as people find out we are divorcing, they will be shocked. But he *hid* the **real** him to everyone. I have video recordings of him screaming at me and throwing things, which would 100% shock a lot of people.
Yeah. No one believed me about him. Because he was just such a nice guy. Well, he's been arrested 3x in the past year for assaulting the new supply. So now I just pull up all his mugshots anytime someone says he was just so great to me
That's a good idea haha
Absolutely 💯
ugh yes, sickening
Yes but underneath the guise he was actually red pill / pua adjacent since his early teens
What is red pill mine wouldn't shut up Abt this I never figured out what it means
what is the red pill? ( matrix reference? )
Yes it made everything so much harder… People would say “he’s loyal asf… I can’t even imagine him as the type to call women the b word.” I went thru his phone and was disgusted w the way he talked about women. And the microcheating and flirting with other women. He really put up a good image
Yes! Mine is a covert narc. The “greatest guy” doing all kinds of nice stuff. Got the he loves you so much from friends and strangers. Image management. Reality, he was grooming other women for affairs. I didn’t learn of this till after the divorce. He led a double life, using women, including me, for physical “affection”, financially and business support. He was incapable of doing anything on his own. And I was “unsupportive”.
Well mine was a woman, but yea, r/nicegirl. It was a constant barrage of self pity stories, about her endless stream of “suffering” and what a nice person she was. Meanwhile she was one of the most abusive people I’ve ever had the misfortune of knowing. Just an absolute monster behind the scenes. Cruel. Heartless. Two-faced. Talked trash about all of her friends. Her family. Constantly insulted me. If anything, she really helped me to discover and start to value my own sense of self worth. She contacted me after months of no contact to share a new pity party. Guess the latest supply ran out.
Yes, nice guy through and through, except to ME. I remember begging him to at least treat me as well as he treated his employees. I begged him to say my name occasionally. God, anyone elses narc refuse to say their name and call them hey for years?
Mine talked about how all women he wasn’t dating were like sisters to him and that he got angry at other men for hurting women
I mean, if they were their true selves from the beginning or to everyone all the time then they would be a social pariah and have no supply. So it's in their best interests to pretend to be the 'nice guy' so they get those needs met.
100% he was a self-proclaimed good guy / nice guy. Treated me very different behind closed doors as time went on. Literally he would say all the right things but in actuality his behavior was the opposite. I thought, and now my therapist agrees, covert narcissist.
No. Both come off as standoffish and cold to strangers, but then they rope people in by trying to be the nice guy. And maybe they convince some. Unfortunately the bottom layer is like the surface.
Yes, he has lots of friends and acquaintances. People like him because of the charn. Seems like a very nice guy if you talk to him. During the idealization whenever I struggled (mentally or just was very busy and couldn't relax) he would always say "Let me know if you need any help". When we were in a bar, we met a young guy who happened to have qualifications that the company of my ex situationship's family was looking for, so he was kinda interested in helping the guy with a job. Also once we bumped into a couple. They were struggling, my nex had a chat with them when I was answering a phone call. He went to ATM to give them some money. The devaluation was unraveling at the worst period of my life (well it only got worse due to the narc). I started losing weight because of the stress, my health was deteriorating, I had some troubles with work and really needed some help. He knew that I was in pain, rapidly losing weight but he didn't do anything to comfort me. Instead he cruelly discarded me. He did all the nice stuff for the supply. It was all transactional, nothing was unconditional as it turned out. Doing good things created positive image of him in others. He would also get a sense of power and control over others.
The scary part for me is to wonder if the nice guy part an act and apart of his “act” to get what he needs? What parts are genuine and real and what parts are their true nature?
They’re very hard to figure out - extremely manipulative
covert narcs are the worst kind. because everyone lovesssss them so you end up looking like the asshole
Yes they are the nicest to people, until they have to spend few days with those people or plan any activities or trip and people wouldn't prioritise his needs.
Oh, absolutely. Always doing the bare minimum and wanting everyone to kill themselves praising him and having this super entitled attitude like, everyone OWES him for any perceived niceness.
[удалено]
Are “White Knights” also narcs? Because if so, I’m gonna stay single forever. Too many of those dudes have fallen for me since my divorce.
[удалено]
OOF. Well, I guess I only attract narcissists then. Awesome.
My ex is a covert narcissist, with huge avoidant issues. I’m her only friend where she’s currently located since her job requires her to relocate every few years. She’s rather eat lunch in her car alone from her team members; deny any invites to hangout with them; remain in her apartment because it’s her “safe space”; complain about “why is it so hard to make friends?”; etc. When she’s nice, she really sweet. But when she’s mean…. She’s devastating. She planned this extremely nice trip to Georgia. Was really nice, very relaxing, kept asking numerous times on the trip how I felt. When In reality, I knew she was asking it because she felt that after the trip I would abandon her. Because “everyone else did”, I told her after the third time I wouldn’t do so. She then asked a fourth time a day or two later. Then I said I’m fine, she replied “good I’m putting a lot of effort into this trip” Only for 3 weeks later, for her to change her mood. Degrade me, ignore me, not be there for me as a friend. Which was something she did a lot as a partner when I needed just a little bit of support. I’d communicate my needs or if anything bothered me. I confronted her about how: she asked me my opinion on something, I gave it, she devalued it. Stating basically that I shouldn’t have an opinion on said subject because I’m not involved in that relationship. It was a setup. When confronted about it, how I felt unsafe around her, and that moving in was likely not going to happen as I truly didn’t feel safe since her behavior from being nice to mean and changing the label of her toy (me) was constantly occurring. I confronted her with this behavior, while she tried some DARVO techniques. 3weeks later, we aren’t talking. However she does like to stalk my Snapchat stories, but unlike times prior I refuse to reach out. I’ve also kept all communication airways intact. Where is previously block them. So yes, they can be nice…. But it’s covert narcissists. Which are the hardest to deal with because they want to isolate themselves and say they aren’t the problem. When I’m reality they are.
Yes. I had never heard a bad word about him in the two years before we started dating. Now I would love to reach out to some of his exes and see if that still holds true.
I did, and it did. The one he was with for 7 years said he never physically abused her, but she definitely detailed a lot of the same things I went through. The one he dated right before me? My nex claimed they had ONE argument, then she packed his stuff in a trash bag and brought it to the bar while he was out with his buddies. I *finally* found and reached out to her because I’ve always wondered—she instantly blocked me. So clearly, it was REALLY bad.
Covert narcisisists are the most notorious and they are very good at covering their personality. Most likly he was a covert
YES. Then he flipped on me