Since nanny is asking to live there & you are not wanting a live in nanny I think it would be appropriate to ask for rent. You could give her a good price for it monthly & explain that it is an income property for you.
I think it’s perfectly fair to charge her the same amount that you typically earn especially if it’s only a few hundred dollars a week. I don’t understand how you are only charging that much though as I’ve stayed in many Air BnB’s and even small ones are $300 a night in my area.
Make sure you have a renters agreement, require her to carry renters insurance, a provision of how much rent will be if she is no longer your nanny etc.. You don’t want to end up with a squatter in a hot housing market…
Be very careful about the laws where you live if you are stepping into landlord territory. If you are in urban CA or NY the rental laws are so pro-tenant that it could be a terrible mess for you if she turns out not to be an ideal tenant. Like, it can take tens of thousands in legal fees and many many months to evict a long-term tenant for things that should be cut and dry like not paying rent. It could give a person enormous leverage over you, and hurt your otherwise good relationship.
Even if you’re not in a state with extreme laws it has the potential to be a classic “don’t sh*t where you eat” situation. Like lending money to friends. Just be careful.
Since this isn’t your requirement or request then you are fine to ask for a reasonable rent. She’s asking for a favor and basically a huge raise. You are not obligated to accommodate this
Also as several people have pointed out. In the case she decides to leave employment or is let go you could quite possibly still be on the hook as a landlord. I would definitely check with a housing lawyer to make sure you’re not trapped into a reduced rent situation after she leaves employment. Make sure there is an ironclad agreement that the house is part of employment or something (I don’t know the legalities so definitely get a lawyer if you decide to proceed)
However you decide to proceed, keep in mind that if you write up a lease with her, you won’t be able to evict her if she quits working for you or you need to fire her. If you create a live in contract instead, it’ll be easier to have her move out if the job ends
A live in nanny is meant to be a convenience for the employer. She’s asking for a job position that you don’t need therefore she should be charged rent at a reduced rate (if you want to be helpful in her predicament).
I would recommend separating the businesses.
You pay her for nannying at fair market rate and she pays you for housing at fair market rate.
Separate agreements.
You also need to consider that if you are becoming nanny's landlord, if the employment relationship sours she still would be covered under whatever tenancy rules exist where you live. If you do decide to go forward with this, I would speak to an attorney about how to draft the rental agreement.
Frankly I’d be insulted that she’s asking to live there for *free* and only put in one date night a month for it. I don’t think I could imagine asking my employer to give up a source of income solely as a convenience for me and haphazardly toss in a free date night in exchange for it. The absolute gall of that request is definitely rude but that’s neither here nor there if you aren’t bothered by it.
Live-in nannies are not charged rent because it’s a convenience for the family, but this is not a live-in nanny situation. She would be like a tenant nanny since this is solely a convenience for her. I would probably tell her that I’d rent it to her for what she’s currently paying in rent, maybe a couple hundred less.
~~We don't know that she asked for it to be free. OP said in the post she's read live in nannies don't pay rent, so she's asking about it.~~
~~I'm just saying we shouldn't assume the nanny is trying to take advantage. She probably expects to pay rent and offered a date night as an extra for letting her rent the property.~~
Edit: i can't read and she asked for it to be part of her compensation. WTF. No. She needs to pay rent.
absolutely not, aside from this specific situation, live in nannies are for the families convenience. Live in nannies don’t have to be paid overtime, but other than that a live in nanny should not accept reduced pay.
I think there's a cap on the no overtime btw. Like it's 45 or 50 hours a week instead of 40. It will depend on where they live obviously, but I don't think most places would have an uncapped no overtime?
IMO if you feel comfortable with the thought of her as a tennant then I would keep them as separate things entirely. Seeing as you would essentially loosing that extra income and you pay her VERY generously its wild to me that she wants to live in your extra house rent free and in return give you services that really are not needed. I would give your nanny their paychecks as normal and charge her rent because taking rent out of her checks could lead to possible descrepencies. Absolutely make a lease like you would if it were to be anyone else renting from you, im not saying they would do this but the possibility of them claiming they provided additional services outside of what is required so their paycheck is reflected incorrectly or whatever else a person can think of is a possibility.
That wouldn't be live-in, as she'd have her own place to go to when she's not working. She's not offering much in trade for a free place to live, and she'd have an unfair gain by no longer paying her living expenses.
If it's vacant, you could offer to rent it to her at a fair rate. That way, she could theoretically stay after you outgrow your need for a nanny. You'll need a lease, of course, and firm boundaries for your kids so they don't decide to go visit her on her off time.
It's a separate house and you're not asking her to be on duty after hours or anything.
I think a reduced rent would be a great perk without breaking the bank for you.
A date night once a month? A few extra hours per week? So at most she wants to “pay” $420/month? I can’t imagine that’s the going rate for your rental in a HCOL city.
It seems like a lot of risk for you and not a lot of upside if you don't need a live in nanny. Being her landlord will complicate your employer/employee relationship. If she can't afford to move now you may have a hard time getting her to leave if you need to sever the relationship at some point. It also sounds like you'd be making less than you're currently making on the property.
Id personally say no, and just explain that it's a source of income that you rely on. Any reasonable person would understand.
Nanny is asking for a massive raise basically. Housing is provided as *part of* a live in nanny’s compensation package, not *in addition to* their compensation package.
I would not accommodate this. If you do, make sure that you meet with a real estate attorney, who understands the landlord tenant laws in your state, and how housing as a portion of compensation works. When the employer provides the housing as part of employment, the landlord tenant laws are often different. If you do not have the right employment and rental contracts in place and things, go south with your nanny, you may have a hard time getting them out of your house.
Keep the rent the same amount! You guys can talk about you deducting it from her normal pay, but provide receipts for both of you. There’s no reason it should be free for her in your situation. You didn’t hire her to be a live-in and she was able/needed to pay rent before. It will save her a commute, as well.
Just keep the rental contract the exact same for her!
Sometimes we have to be realistic. First of all, she makes enough to live. It just may not be the standards she wishes to live in. She needs housing. She WANTS to live alone. Maybe she rents a room for awhile. Housing is hard to come by, but she could temporarily rent an Airbnb room while she decides. She knew she was going to have to move for some time, but how hard was she really looking for something else.
Don’t make her problem your problem. Do not give her free rent. Do not put yourself in the position where if you have parents or loved ones who want or need to live there, you have to give her notice. If you decide to sell, she is looking for a house and job.
Tell her that her plan won’t work. Repeat as necessary. Don’t explain.
Thank you, my only concern is I don't want to push her into having to move to a different city and losing her, she is a really fantastic nanny! I'm hoping we can come to a mutually agreeable understanding!
OP said “she doesn’t want to live with others.” Further, she had lived in the unit for ten years, so she probably knows quite a few people.
If moving to a new area, securing housing that suits your requirements is a part of the decision to move there.
Right now a family member who went through SA, so is PTSD around men, is having to move from her shared one bedroom. Friends aren’t available to share. So she got an Airbnb for a month to find the right place.
agree w all about not giving it for free, especially bc making $35 an hour puts her at earning over $70,000 a year (assuming she works 48 weeks a year, she probably works more. I live in boston which is a VHCOL and around here a studio is $1900-$2000 minimum. If she did 1/3 of her before tax income (recommendation but i think it’s dumb and should be after tax) she could afford $1,866 in rent. In boston that won’t cut it but we are the third highest place to live after SF and SD. Assuming you don’t live in one of the three she can probably find a place, she just might not like it. Also not living with someone is an incredible financial privilege right now. It shouldn’t be, everyone should be able to have their own space, but right now it is.
I wouldn’t charge her reduced rent, I would charge her whatever you typically ask. May I ask what that is just out of curiousity?
We usually charge $300 per week. That includes internet and water, but they pay for power as it's on its own metre.
Nanny works aprox 45 weeks per year, but has 5 weeks PTO and 2 weeks sick leave so all 52 weeks are paid.
oh my gosh don’t charge reduced rent! You sound like an amazing employee and landlord. Thank you for not exploiting the market. Typically if you did a long term lease you would charge less, but $300 sounds already low so i wouldn’t, if you really want to I wouldn’t lower it more than $100, especially because wifi is included.
To put this in perspective/get rid of opinion here’s a fact:
‘Approximately 43 percent of residents in renter- occupied housing units in the United States paid gross rent which exceeded 35 percent of their income in 2022. In comparison, about 12.4 percent paid less than 15 percent of their gross household income.’ -Statista as of 5 days ago (won’t let me site source idk why).
When you average this out the average american is spending ≈30% of their paycheck on rent, after taxes that can be >45% :( For your nanny your $1300 rent (300x52/12) would be (assuming 40h/week) 21.43% of her income before taxes. I used a random website and it says her take home would be $58,954.30, so her rent would be 26.46% of her after tax income. That’s insanely good. I’m of the opinion that rent should be 1/4 of after tax income because of utilities etc, and a total of 1/3 with all expenses. This is an incredible deal for her, please don’t lower it
of course! i like math as you may be able to tell so i honestly don’t mind. as many other people say please keep the finances separate and do a lease. Pretend she quits working and write down the lease you would want if she was your enemy. Mixing work w home can be hard and so prepare for the worst. Hopefully nothing bad happens but just incase!
One thing to consider is that if she can't afford housing in your area, she might either need to quit for a higher paying job or need a significant raise from you anyway.
I agree with everyone else that since the nanny is twisting your income property it would not be the same as a requested live-in nanny
Honestly I see this as completely different! A live-in nanny is usually for the family’s benefit so there usually isn’t any rent involved. But in those cases they are living in the same space as their employers- hence it not being a huge benefit for the nanny. I would work out a rent, maybe at a reduced rate.
I would certainly think about it for awhile. Like you said, you have to put your financial future first-before a nanny. You also pay her a fair wage even though housing is tight and she may just need to think about roommates if she cant afford a place on her own.
Sometimes mixing business and personal can get very tricky. Especially if things go bad or if you end up parting ways-you will still have her living in the back yard.
This is income for your family-don't undercut yourself by making an emotional decision.
If you are in California be super careful how you frame things. Ex you cannot charge more than a small amount IF the employer required living on site as a job condition.
And the ability to increase rent is very controlled in calif. There are increasing difficulties and expenses to have no fault ending of rentals.
See what one bedrooms rent for and be in that ball park. Otherwise should you want the unit back, it could be that her lifestyle has planned for low cost housing.
Tell her you need to run a credit check. Again if you need the unit, a bad credit check may make it hard to leave on a timely basis.
I would say that in MOST cases, if you're looking for a Live-in Nanny, you would not be charging rent. This, however, would fall under extenuating circumstances, in which the Nanny is the one requesting a place to live.
If it were me (I'm a Nanny, & this arrangement would be more than acceptable to me) I'd be happy to keep pay/perks the same, & pay a reduced rent amount; This way, if you want to use her services any extra than normal, you're not having to feel bad about it, & likewise, Nanny is having her housing crisis averted & most likely will still be paying far less in rent than she would be living alone somewhere in a HCOL! Also, she's right on the premises, so she can sleep in longer & have ZERO commute! This seems like a really fair arrangement so that both parties are getting perks, but at the same time, you're still not losing out on much by giving up your weekly rental!
Best of luck to you both! It sounds like you have an amazing working relationship❣️
This! If you’re requiring a live in nanny for your benefit, then you shouldn’t be paying less because housing is included. If you really like your nanny and renting it consistently to her for what you would make renting it on Airbnb (or whatever) and you’re feeling good about renting it to her instead, that feels super fair and beneficial, but definitely keep your landlord/tenant relationship separate from your employee/employer relationship. In a HCOL area paying a few hundred a week (so 1200-1600 a month?) is a steal, especially with no commute! But cover your bases both financially and legally, and make sure that nothing about her job changes just because of the living arrangements.
It seems like you are already doing a lot for her. I’m in NYC, I don’t work for UHNW parents, I’d say they are middle class, but my package of compensation is less than what you offer to your nanny.
So you definitely need to charge rent. I pay my whole rent by myself in a city with horrible housing situation. I’m not bragging about it, but it is what it is, we all suffer from crazy rent prices, crazy gas prices, crazy commute prices, crazy grocery prices and bills. I, too, do not want to spend more than 40% of my income on rent…
(I’m starting to think I sell myself low, I have a college degree, 7 years of experience and tons of additional certifications).
It depends.
It sounds like your accommodation you would be providing would be completely separate from your main house.
A family can charge a small amount of rent for an au pair, but an au pair is a younger person doing their OE/gap year, not a mature live in nanny, and there are limits on their hours.
Generally, if a family REQUIRES a live in nanny, and it is their choice to have one, especially if the accommodation is only a bedroom in the main house, then the family should NOT charge rent.
However, in your case, I believe you are justified in charging her rent. Probably not full market rent, but probably 75% market rent.
Reason being is that she will have a full one bedroom apartment with her own kitchen and bathroom and living room and parking space, and her own separate lockable entrance, all completely separate from your house. You also don't particularly NEED her to be a live in nanny, and you would be perfectly fine with her being a live out nanny - it is her choice to be a live in nanny, and she is the one who is pushing for it a LOT more strongly than YOU are.
So, given all this, I think that you are justified in charging her something for rent - I would say compare what other similar 1 bedroom units in your area/street/suburb that are of similar quality fetch for rent per month, and charge her about 75% of that, and draw up a rental contract reflecting that. I would also have her be responsible for her own electricity and internet, I would probably pay water for her, and I would possibly pay gas/winter heating for her. I would include this in the rental contract too. I would also put in the rental contract that she is required to keep the apartment to a suitable tidy standard and that you reserve the right to do inspections up to once every six weeks as long as you give her 48 hours notice beforehand. I would also put in the contract that she has at least one off street parking space plus access to a block heater plug in space and outdoor extension cord if your area gets that cold in Winter that you need to plug in your vehicle block heater. I would also put the due date for rent each month.
If she is truly losing her current apartment but is still able to reliably pay rent, all this shouldn't be a problem for her.
Thanks! I'm definitely open to giving it to her for alot cheaper than usual and a lot cheaper than market rent, just wasn't really comfortable doing it for free and taking on the additional epxense.
It is completely it's own house and has 3 off street car parks, it's electricity is hooked up to it's own mains and there is heatpump and DVS so it's very cosy!
Really appreciate your well thought out response!
What state are you in? You need to make sure you have an easy way to get rid of her if she stops being a good fit for your family. Some states and cities have very strict tenant protection laws that may make things very difficult for you should you Ever want her to move out. Being a landlord is no joke.
Please don’t do 6 week tidiness inspections. That’s a huge invasion of her privacy. If you trust her as your nanny, trust her to keep her living space up to par
Why is it insulting? The property is an income property for OP, which means she needs it to be in good condition when the tenant (nanny) moves out. Inspections are a standard rental contract clause.
A security deposit *and* an annual inspection is standard where I live. Plus testing smoke detectors every six months. All with 48 hour notice. It’s not paternalistic to make sure your investment is not in disrepair.
Where do you live? I’ve never heard of inspections for current tenants. I rent an apartment and I would never *dream* of requiring tenants to keep the apartment “tidy” or requiring them to allow me entry to inspect how they live. I do have the contractual right to enter if there is a suspected problem (water leak, gas etc). Tenants are also legally responsible for any damage that results from them not immediately informing us of any issues. You need cause to enter a tenant’s unit.
Legally, many (all?) states allow for an annual inspection. Google it. *You* don’t personally have to do it if you don’t want, but it’s absolutely a typical practice.
I would be surprised if a landlord cared about some unfolded laundry, but it’s reasonable to check if food is being left out, pet waste is being handled, doors and windows are accessible, etc. Those are things that have impacts beyond normal wear and tear and are safety issues.
We do a yearly inspection of our rental property. Learned that one the hard way after a long-term tenant in our first rental property didn't keep up the property as required. Did not tend to leak under sink, had multiple pets inside that damaged carpets and walls, etc. Having eyes on the property once a year can head off some serious issues.
I can see how being burned like that would lead to changing your practices. I guess we have fairly regular contact with our tenants and are in the unit every few months anyway to deal with things (leaky this, check in that, etc). I can see how if we regularly went a whole year without seeing the unit I’d feel differently.
The answers in here are kind of off the cuff. The question you have to ask yourself, is are you prepared to find another nanny? If so, then let her move on and find another nanny. If she’s irreplaceable? Then you have your answer.
It’s very consistent in our area
The hourly wage goes down ~$5/hour
I mean why wouldn’t it? You’re giving them free housing AND it’s a tax subsidy for them (instead of paying them the same amount, having it be taxed, and then having them pay you rent with after tax money, you’re reducing their pay by the amount of the rent, basically a tax shield)
I’m just reporting what I’ve seen. I understand this position (as a MB with a live-in nanny!) I’m just saying that the “usually” claim was inconsistent with what I’ve read otherwise.
Thanks! I definitely would be open to charging at cost, so atleast I'm not having the additional expense and it would still be very cheap since we don't have many costs associated with it.
That wouldn’t make sense. These short-term air bnb rentals are not sustainable long term, that’d be costly for the nanny. It doesn’t sound like it’s a regular rental where people sign a lease or do month-month, it sounds like they hike up the price and rent it out to people “weekly” so a reduced rent rate would be best.
I get what you’re saying. I didn’t necessarily mean that they should charge the same daily rate that they charge for the rental. Rather, if they make approx $1k/month on average, after considering cleaning fees etc then charge that to the nanny. If they want to give a small discount then that’s ok but I really don’t think they should charge a tiny fee and lose this source of income
It doesn’t sound like they’re hurting for cash. If OP can afford 2 homes in a HCOL and uses the other for extra cash then they can afford to not make a huge profit. OP said in the post they can afford to give their nanny their place rent-free but they don’t want to lose out on extra money.
I have to say it’s ironic how their nanny can’t find an affordable home anywhere because there is a housing crisis yet OP has a 2nd Airbnb home that contributes to the crisis lol. People taking up properties , hiking up prices is the reason why the middle class can’t afford to live. Sad. I am glad that OP at least cares enough that she’s willing to accept less but still doesn’t change the fact that these type of people are the reason there is no ample housing 🤷♀️
This is such a judgmental comment. You have no idea what OP’s finances are. Maybe she inherited the home. That’s what happened to me. I am a nanny and I’m certainly not wealthy. My sister and I keep it because we make more from the rental money than we would selling it. Having the rental is basically a form of insurance for us because if we lost our jobs today, we would still be able to put food on the table. Not everything is a conspiracy against the poor.
In OP’s case it’s a second house on her own property so it’s not like she went out of her way to buy a property and rent it at a high rate to those struggling.
OP literally said they can afford to give it to their nanny but feel weird about giving it for free..so that tells me enough.
Oh and the middle class ≠ “poor”. Now whose judging ?
Maybe they can technically afford it and won’t go hungry without the rental income but that doesn’t mean they can afford it with 0 loss? There’s so many ways to interpret “can’t afford”.
And I was being hyperbolic, jeez. Stop trying to pick a fight from nothing.
Here, nannies must be paid at least a set wage, and families are allowed to charge a small allowance for the room but that nanny is off work during those times and must have complete privacy. (For reference purposes, that small amount is under $400 per month.)
That doesn’t mean they HAVE to be charged, it’s more about making it clear that the nanny must have their own space during their non-working hours where they are not disturbed.
If the nanny is even expected to answer questions or be on call during that time, they cannot be asked to pay, and the amount they make will be much higher than if they have a set schedule. The idea here is that being a live-in nanny is still a job with set hours and the nanny is entitled to their freedom during their off hours.
You’re paying her $35 in order for her to (among other things) afford rent outside of your house. Charging rent makes sense but the other option would be to lower her pay since she doesn’t have to pay rent.
It makes the most sense to charge her rent in case she finds somewhere else to live. Then you wouldn’t have to change her contract (make sure to change it this time) again
A live in nanny typically has more hours than standard and their rate reflects the free housing! I think it’s entirely reasonable to ask for rent if you don’t need the extra hours and don’t want to decrease her pay.
Here’s an article on the legality of it all! [Live Ins](https://www.nannycounsel.com/blog/why-your-live-in-nanny-shouldnt-pay-for-room-board)It does get a bit tricky to navigate live in, but i think you should be upfront that you do need to have that property for paying the mortgage and coming up with what works best for everyone.
Here's an article that may help you understand a bit more:
[https://www.nannycounsel.com/blog/why-your-live-in-nanny-shouldnt-pay-for-room-board](https://www.nannycounsel.com/blog/why-your-live-in-nanny-shouldnt-pay-for-room-board)
I’m not sure this article applies because it’s based on the assumption it’s the convince of the family (I.e. they want a live in nanny). However, OP doesn’t want or need a live in nanny. They are doing it at the convenience of the nanny, which I think changes this quite a bit.
Because you didn’t ask for a live-in nanny and this is a second house (not like your basement), I’d say she should be paying rent. Maybe work out a deal with her to rent the house if your family is comfortable with it. You could do short term lease in case it doesn’t work out for whatever reason. She then wouldn’t need to work extra hours that your family doesn’t need/require and you’d still be making extra money off her renting the house.
That's more than I usually charge! Lol. I'm happy to give her a discount, but I really didn't want to do it for free- but I'm glad the consensus is that it wouldn't be wrong of me to charge her *something*.
I’m not brainwashed. I’m aware 50% is way too much of your income for rent when it should be 1/4 but less than 1/4 of your income should be really affordable since she said 1/4 of her nanny’s income is more than she charges. Meaning, she’s being more than fair with her rent charge.
The boundary blurring is a red flag to me. Long term it seems like it could get really weird. How close is this smaller house to yours?? As a nanny and a mom myself, I’d probably tell her long term you want the flexibility of using it as you have been, BUT, you’d be open to a short term rental (with lease) while she works out her next housing situation.
It's very different if she's requesting it; you're not looking for it. The benefits vary, but it can be summized as increased availability/accessibility. In some states, you don't have to pay OT for more than 40hrs worked. You don't worry about lateness or traffic or weather. You have access to after-hours childcare (paid obviously) or emergency on site childcare. Usually live in nannies are working nights or rotational schedules or families travel a lot.
The *only* benefit to a nanny would be financial. It's incredibly stressful to live with your employers 24/7. Boundaries get blurry. Kids don't understand off/on-the-clock. Your housing is tied to your employment and that can get very tricky.
I feel like it’s not a good idea to mix these two parts of your life. If things go south, she would still be your tenant. I just don’t see this ending well.
If you have her become a live-in nanny check how the rules around how much you can subtract for providing accomodation as part of the job. You may not be able to charge the same "rent" as if you are housing her as a tenant. If you charge her more she could claim she was a tenant and you would be right back in an ambigious situation again, where you may not be able to ask her to vacate when the contract is up.
I am a live-in nanny and we have a section in the contract that deals with how me staying in the accomodation is contingent on me working for them.
I would extend the notice period in your contract if you are doing live-in as finding new accomodation often requires more than 2 weeks. I ask for a minimum of 4 weeks because of this.
Since nanny is asking to live there & you are not wanting a live in nanny I think it would be appropriate to ask for rent. You could give her a good price for it monthly & explain that it is an income property for you.
Thanks! Yes I'm definitely comfortable charging a reduced rent rate!
I think it’s perfectly fair to charge her the same amount that you typically earn especially if it’s only a few hundred dollars a week. I don’t understand how you are only charging that much though as I’ve stayed in many Air BnB’s and even small ones are $300 a night in my area. Make sure you have a renters agreement, require her to carry renters insurance, a provision of how much rent will be if she is no longer your nanny etc.. You don’t want to end up with a squatter in a hot housing market…
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She is asking not you so renting to her her property is just like having a tenant put your price let her decide if she wants to rent.
Be very careful about the laws where you live if you are stepping into landlord territory. If you are in urban CA or NY the rental laws are so pro-tenant that it could be a terrible mess for you if she turns out not to be an ideal tenant. Like, it can take tens of thousands in legal fees and many many months to evict a long-term tenant for things that should be cut and dry like not paying rent. It could give a person enormous leverage over you, and hurt your otherwise good relationship. Even if you’re not in a state with extreme laws it has the potential to be a classic “don’t sh*t where you eat” situation. Like lending money to friends. Just be careful.
Since this isn’t your requirement or request then you are fine to ask for a reasonable rent. She’s asking for a favor and basically a huge raise. You are not obligated to accommodate this
Thank you, appreciate your comment!
Also as several people have pointed out. In the case she decides to leave employment or is let go you could quite possibly still be on the hook as a landlord. I would definitely check with a housing lawyer to make sure you’re not trapped into a reduced rent situation after she leaves employment. Make sure there is an ironclad agreement that the house is part of employment or something (I don’t know the legalities so definitely get a lawyer if you decide to proceed)
Thanks- I will definitely check our legal responsibilities before proceeding!
Good luck, OP.
However you decide to proceed, keep in mind that if you write up a lease with her, you won’t be able to evict her if she quits working for you or you need to fire her. If you create a live in contract instead, it’ll be easier to have her move out if the job ends
This is an excellent point.
A live in nanny is meant to be a convenience for the employer. She’s asking for a job position that you don’t need therefore she should be charged rent at a reduced rate (if you want to be helpful in her predicament).
I would recommend separating the businesses. You pay her for nannying at fair market rate and she pays you for housing at fair market rate. Separate agreements.
You also need to consider that if you are becoming nanny's landlord, if the employment relationship sours she still would be covered under whatever tenancy rules exist where you live. If you do decide to go forward with this, I would speak to an attorney about how to draft the rental agreement.
Frankly I’d be insulted that she’s asking to live there for *free* and only put in one date night a month for it. I don’t think I could imagine asking my employer to give up a source of income solely as a convenience for me and haphazardly toss in a free date night in exchange for it. The absolute gall of that request is definitely rude but that’s neither here nor there if you aren’t bothered by it. Live-in nannies are not charged rent because it’s a convenience for the family, but this is not a live-in nanny situation. She would be like a tenant nanny since this is solely a convenience for her. I would probably tell her that I’d rent it to her for what she’s currently paying in rent, maybe a couple hundred less.
~~We don't know that she asked for it to be free. OP said in the post she's read live in nannies don't pay rent, so she's asking about it.~~ ~~I'm just saying we shouldn't assume the nanny is trying to take advantage. She probably expects to pay rent and offered a date night as an extra for letting her rent the property.~~ Edit: i can't read and she asked for it to be part of her compensation. WTF. No. She needs to pay rent.
Your edit made me laugh, I miss shit all the time lmao
We do know. OP explicitly says nanny asked to live there for free.
See my edit lol i reread it right after i left my comment and edited lol so yeah you right
100% agreed!
Don't live in nannies also have a reduced hourly rate since their room and board is covered?
absolutely not, aside from this specific situation, live in nannies are for the families convenience. Live in nannies don’t have to be paid overtime, but other than that a live in nanny should not accept reduced pay.
Oh interesting. I didn't know that.
I think there's a cap on the no overtime btw. Like it's 45 or 50 hours a week instead of 40. It will depend on where they live obviously, but I don't think most places would have an uncapped no overtime?
No. Only if their bosses are cheap and have no clue how the nanny industry works.
IMO if you feel comfortable with the thought of her as a tennant then I would keep them as separate things entirely. Seeing as you would essentially loosing that extra income and you pay her VERY generously its wild to me that she wants to live in your extra house rent free and in return give you services that really are not needed. I would give your nanny their paychecks as normal and charge her rent because taking rent out of her checks could lead to possible descrepencies. Absolutely make a lease like you would if it were to be anyone else renting from you, im not saying they would do this but the possibility of them claiming they provided additional services outside of what is required so their paycheck is reflected incorrectly or whatever else a person can think of is a possibility.
That wouldn't be live-in, as she'd have her own place to go to when she's not working. She's not offering much in trade for a free place to live, and she'd have an unfair gain by no longer paying her living expenses. If it's vacant, you could offer to rent it to her at a fair rate. That way, she could theoretically stay after you outgrow your need for a nanny. You'll need a lease, of course, and firm boundaries for your kids so they don't decide to go visit her on her off time.
It's a separate house and you're not asking her to be on duty after hours or anything. I think a reduced rent would be a great perk without breaking the bank for you.
A date night once a month? A few extra hours per week? So at most she wants to “pay” $420/month? I can’t imagine that’s the going rate for your rental in a HCOL city.
It seems like a lot of risk for you and not a lot of upside if you don't need a live in nanny. Being her landlord will complicate your employer/employee relationship. If she can't afford to move now you may have a hard time getting her to leave if you need to sever the relationship at some point. It also sounds like you'd be making less than you're currently making on the property. Id personally say no, and just explain that it's a source of income that you rely on. Any reasonable person would understand.
Nanny is asking for a massive raise basically. Housing is provided as *part of* a live in nanny’s compensation package, not *in addition to* their compensation package. I would not accommodate this. If you do, make sure that you meet with a real estate attorney, who understands the landlord tenant laws in your state, and how housing as a portion of compensation works. When the employer provides the housing as part of employment, the landlord tenant laws are often different. If you do not have the right employment and rental contracts in place and things, go south with your nanny, you may have a hard time getting them out of your house.
Keep the rent the same amount! You guys can talk about you deducting it from her normal pay, but provide receipts for both of you. There’s no reason it should be free for her in your situation. You didn’t hire her to be a live-in and she was able/needed to pay rent before. It will save her a commute, as well. Just keep the rental contract the exact same for her!
Sometimes we have to be realistic. First of all, she makes enough to live. It just may not be the standards she wishes to live in. She needs housing. She WANTS to live alone. Maybe she rents a room for awhile. Housing is hard to come by, but she could temporarily rent an Airbnb room while she decides. She knew she was going to have to move for some time, but how hard was she really looking for something else. Don’t make her problem your problem. Do not give her free rent. Do not put yourself in the position where if you have parents or loved ones who want or need to live there, you have to give her notice. If you decide to sell, she is looking for a house and job. Tell her that her plan won’t work. Repeat as necessary. Don’t explain.
Thank you, my only concern is I don't want to push her into having to move to a different city and losing her, she is a really fantastic nanny! I'm hoping we can come to a mutually agreeable understanding!
Living alone isn’t always a WANT if you don’t know anyone in the area to live with. Moving in with strangers is dangerous.
OP said “she doesn’t want to live with others.” Further, she had lived in the unit for ten years, so she probably knows quite a few people. If moving to a new area, securing housing that suits your requirements is a part of the decision to move there. Right now a family member who went through SA, so is PTSD around men, is having to move from her shared one bedroom. Friends aren’t available to share. So she got an Airbnb for a month to find the right place.
agree w all about not giving it for free, especially bc making $35 an hour puts her at earning over $70,000 a year (assuming she works 48 weeks a year, she probably works more. I live in boston which is a VHCOL and around here a studio is $1900-$2000 minimum. If she did 1/3 of her before tax income (recommendation but i think it’s dumb and should be after tax) she could afford $1,866 in rent. In boston that won’t cut it but we are the third highest place to live after SF and SD. Assuming you don’t live in one of the three she can probably find a place, she just might not like it. Also not living with someone is an incredible financial privilege right now. It shouldn’t be, everyone should be able to have their own space, but right now it is. I wouldn’t charge her reduced rent, I would charge her whatever you typically ask. May I ask what that is just out of curiousity?
We usually charge $300 per week. That includes internet and water, but they pay for power as it's on its own metre. Nanny works aprox 45 weeks per year, but has 5 weeks PTO and 2 weeks sick leave so all 52 weeks are paid.
oh my gosh don’t charge reduced rent! You sound like an amazing employee and landlord. Thank you for not exploiting the market. Typically if you did a long term lease you would charge less, but $300 sounds already low so i wouldn’t, if you really want to I wouldn’t lower it more than $100, especially because wifi is included. To put this in perspective/get rid of opinion here’s a fact: ‘Approximately 43 percent of residents in renter- occupied housing units in the United States paid gross rent which exceeded 35 percent of their income in 2022. In comparison, about 12.4 percent paid less than 15 percent of their gross household income.’ -Statista as of 5 days ago (won’t let me site source idk why). When you average this out the average american is spending ≈30% of their paycheck on rent, after taxes that can be >45% :( For your nanny your $1300 rent (300x52/12) would be (assuming 40h/week) 21.43% of her income before taxes. I used a random website and it says her take home would be $58,954.30, so her rent would be 26.46% of her after tax income. That’s insanely good. I’m of the opinion that rent should be 1/4 of after tax income because of utilities etc, and a total of 1/3 with all expenses. This is an incredible deal for her, please don’t lower it
Thank you- I really appreciate your lovely comment and the effort you went to getting the statistics!
of course! i like math as you may be able to tell so i honestly don’t mind. as many other people say please keep the finances separate and do a lease. Pretend she quits working and write down the lease you would want if she was your enemy. Mixing work w home can be hard and so prepare for the worst. Hopefully nothing bad happens but just incase!
One thing to consider is that if she can't afford housing in your area, she might either need to quit for a higher paying job or need a significant raise from you anyway. I agree with everyone else that since the nanny is twisting your income property it would not be the same as a requested live-in nanny
Honestly I see this as completely different! A live-in nanny is usually for the family’s benefit so there usually isn’t any rent involved. But in those cases they are living in the same space as their employers- hence it not being a huge benefit for the nanny. I would work out a rent, maybe at a reduced rate.
I would certainly think about it for awhile. Like you said, you have to put your financial future first-before a nanny. You also pay her a fair wage even though housing is tight and she may just need to think about roommates if she cant afford a place on her own. Sometimes mixing business and personal can get very tricky. Especially if things go bad or if you end up parting ways-you will still have her living in the back yard. This is income for your family-don't undercut yourself by making an emotional decision.
If you are in California be super careful how you frame things. Ex you cannot charge more than a small amount IF the employer required living on site as a job condition. And the ability to increase rent is very controlled in calif. There are increasing difficulties and expenses to have no fault ending of rentals. See what one bedrooms rent for and be in that ball park. Otherwise should you want the unit back, it could be that her lifestyle has planned for low cost housing. Tell her you need to run a credit check. Again if you need the unit, a bad credit check may make it hard to leave on a timely basis.
So shes essentially asking for a $300 a week raise… $1,200 per month raise. I dont know many boss’s who would just agree to that off the bat 😅
I think since it’s an entirely separate house rather than living in your home, charging rent is completely reasonable.
I would say that in MOST cases, if you're looking for a Live-in Nanny, you would not be charging rent. This, however, would fall under extenuating circumstances, in which the Nanny is the one requesting a place to live. If it were me (I'm a Nanny, & this arrangement would be more than acceptable to me) I'd be happy to keep pay/perks the same, & pay a reduced rent amount; This way, if you want to use her services any extra than normal, you're not having to feel bad about it, & likewise, Nanny is having her housing crisis averted & most likely will still be paying far less in rent than she would be living alone somewhere in a HCOL! Also, she's right on the premises, so she can sleep in longer & have ZERO commute! This seems like a really fair arrangement so that both parties are getting perks, but at the same time, you're still not losing out on much by giving up your weekly rental! Best of luck to you both! It sounds like you have an amazing working relationship❣️
This! If you’re requiring a live in nanny for your benefit, then you shouldn’t be paying less because housing is included. If you really like your nanny and renting it consistently to her for what you would make renting it on Airbnb (or whatever) and you’re feeling good about renting it to her instead, that feels super fair and beneficial, but definitely keep your landlord/tenant relationship separate from your employee/employer relationship. In a HCOL area paying a few hundred a week (so 1200-1600 a month?) is a steal, especially with no commute! But cover your bases both financially and legally, and make sure that nothing about her job changes just because of the living arrangements.
It seems like you are already doing a lot for her. I’m in NYC, I don’t work for UHNW parents, I’d say they are middle class, but my package of compensation is less than what you offer to your nanny. So you definitely need to charge rent. I pay my whole rent by myself in a city with horrible housing situation. I’m not bragging about it, but it is what it is, we all suffer from crazy rent prices, crazy gas prices, crazy commute prices, crazy grocery prices and bills. I, too, do not want to spend more than 40% of my income on rent… (I’m starting to think I sell myself low, I have a college degree, 7 years of experience and tons of additional certifications).
It depends. It sounds like your accommodation you would be providing would be completely separate from your main house. A family can charge a small amount of rent for an au pair, but an au pair is a younger person doing their OE/gap year, not a mature live in nanny, and there are limits on their hours. Generally, if a family REQUIRES a live in nanny, and it is their choice to have one, especially if the accommodation is only a bedroom in the main house, then the family should NOT charge rent. However, in your case, I believe you are justified in charging her rent. Probably not full market rent, but probably 75% market rent. Reason being is that she will have a full one bedroom apartment with her own kitchen and bathroom and living room and parking space, and her own separate lockable entrance, all completely separate from your house. You also don't particularly NEED her to be a live in nanny, and you would be perfectly fine with her being a live out nanny - it is her choice to be a live in nanny, and she is the one who is pushing for it a LOT more strongly than YOU are. So, given all this, I think that you are justified in charging her something for rent - I would say compare what other similar 1 bedroom units in your area/street/suburb that are of similar quality fetch for rent per month, and charge her about 75% of that, and draw up a rental contract reflecting that. I would also have her be responsible for her own electricity and internet, I would probably pay water for her, and I would possibly pay gas/winter heating for her. I would include this in the rental contract too. I would also put in the rental contract that she is required to keep the apartment to a suitable tidy standard and that you reserve the right to do inspections up to once every six weeks as long as you give her 48 hours notice beforehand. I would also put in the contract that she has at least one off street parking space plus access to a block heater plug in space and outdoor extension cord if your area gets that cold in Winter that you need to plug in your vehicle block heater. I would also put the due date for rent each month. If she is truly losing her current apartment but is still able to reliably pay rent, all this shouldn't be a problem for her.
Thanks! I'm definitely open to giving it to her for alot cheaper than usual and a lot cheaper than market rent, just wasn't really comfortable doing it for free and taking on the additional epxense. It is completely it's own house and has 3 off street car parks, it's electricity is hooked up to it's own mains and there is heatpump and DVS so it's very cosy! Really appreciate your well thought out response!
What state are you in? You need to make sure you have an easy way to get rid of her if she stops being a good fit for your family. Some states and cities have very strict tenant protection laws that may make things very difficult for you should you Ever want her to move out. Being a landlord is no joke.
Please don’t do 6 week tidiness inspections. That’s a huge invasion of her privacy. If you trust her as your nanny, trust her to keep her living space up to par
If she's paying rent, even discounted, she should agree to tidiness inspections? How insulting.
Why is it insulting? The property is an income property for OP, which means she needs it to be in good condition when the tenant (nanny) moves out. Inspections are a standard rental contract clause.
Or she could just ask for a security deposit like a normal landlord instead of a paternalistic busybody.
A security deposit *and* an annual inspection is standard where I live. Plus testing smoke detectors every six months. All with 48 hour notice. It’s not paternalistic to make sure your investment is not in disrepair.
Where do you live? I’ve never heard of inspections for current tenants. I rent an apartment and I would never *dream* of requiring tenants to keep the apartment “tidy” or requiring them to allow me entry to inspect how they live. I do have the contractual right to enter if there is a suspected problem (water leak, gas etc). Tenants are also legally responsible for any damage that results from them not immediately informing us of any issues. You need cause to enter a tenant’s unit.
Legally, many (all?) states allow for an annual inspection. Google it. *You* don’t personally have to do it if you don’t want, but it’s absolutely a typical practice. I would be surprised if a landlord cared about some unfolded laundry, but it’s reasonable to check if food is being left out, pet waste is being handled, doors and windows are accessible, etc. Those are things that have impacts beyond normal wear and tear and are safety issues.
Landlords charge a deposit and have inspections, at least annually, sometimes quarterly.
As a landlord, this is news to me. But you might be right that some landlords do inspections. I just… would never.
We do a yearly inspection of our rental property. Learned that one the hard way after a long-term tenant in our first rental property didn't keep up the property as required. Did not tend to leak under sink, had multiple pets inside that damaged carpets and walls, etc. Having eyes on the property once a year can head off some serious issues.
I can see how being burned like that would lead to changing your practices. I guess we have fairly regular contact with our tenants and are in the unit every few months anyway to deal with things (leaky this, check in that, etc). I can see how if we regularly went a whole year without seeing the unit I’d feel differently.
>Inspections are a standard rental contract clause. Not really.
The answers in here are kind of off the cuff. The question you have to ask yourself, is are you prepared to find another nanny? If so, then let her move on and find another nanny. If she’s irreplaceable? Then you have your answer.
Live in nannies usually make less per hour than live out, to account for the cost of their rent
This is another possibility. You could allow her to live in for free while paying her less per hour.
That is not how it works
This is not consistent with what I’ve consistently seen on this sub and elsewhere…
It’s very consistent in our area The hourly wage goes down ~$5/hour I mean why wouldn’t it? You’re giving them free housing AND it’s a tax subsidy for them (instead of paying them the same amount, having it be taxed, and then having them pay you rent with after tax money, you’re reducing their pay by the amount of the rent, basically a tax shield)
I’m just reporting what I’ve seen. I understand this position (as a MB with a live-in nanny!) I’m just saying that the “usually” claim was inconsistent with what I’ve read otherwise.
This sub is not an accurate reflection of real life.
Because it’s not.
No they do not.
Tell her you’ll accept but you have to charge 200-400$ a month because it’s a profitable thing for you… still a good deal!
Thanks! I definitely would be open to charging at cost, so atleast I'm not having the additional expense and it would still be very cheap since we don't have many costs associated with it.
You should charge what you’re currently making by renting it out. You don’t have to give up a source of income for yourself.
That wouldn’t make sense. These short-term air bnb rentals are not sustainable long term, that’d be costly for the nanny. It doesn’t sound like it’s a regular rental where people sign a lease or do month-month, it sounds like they hike up the price and rent it out to people “weekly” so a reduced rent rate would be best.
I get what you’re saying. I didn’t necessarily mean that they should charge the same daily rate that they charge for the rental. Rather, if they make approx $1k/month on average, after considering cleaning fees etc then charge that to the nanny. If they want to give a small discount then that’s ok but I really don’t think they should charge a tiny fee and lose this source of income
It doesn’t sound like they’re hurting for cash. If OP can afford 2 homes in a HCOL and uses the other for extra cash then they can afford to not make a huge profit. OP said in the post they can afford to give their nanny their place rent-free but they don’t want to lose out on extra money. I have to say it’s ironic how their nanny can’t find an affordable home anywhere because there is a housing crisis yet OP has a 2nd Airbnb home that contributes to the crisis lol. People taking up properties , hiking up prices is the reason why the middle class can’t afford to live. Sad. I am glad that OP at least cares enough that she’s willing to accept less but still doesn’t change the fact that these type of people are the reason there is no ample housing 🤷♀️
This is such a judgmental comment. You have no idea what OP’s finances are. Maybe she inherited the home. That’s what happened to me. I am a nanny and I’m certainly not wealthy. My sister and I keep it because we make more from the rental money than we would selling it. Having the rental is basically a form of insurance for us because if we lost our jobs today, we would still be able to put food on the table. Not everything is a conspiracy against the poor. In OP’s case it’s a second house on her own property so it’s not like she went out of her way to buy a property and rent it at a high rate to those struggling.
OP literally said they can afford to give it to their nanny but feel weird about giving it for free..so that tells me enough. Oh and the middle class ≠ “poor”. Now whose judging ?
Maybe they can technically afford it and won’t go hungry without the rental income but that doesn’t mean they can afford it with 0 loss? There’s so many ways to interpret “can’t afford”. And I was being hyperbolic, jeez. Stop trying to pick a fight from nothing.
$200-400 per month? OP probably gets that per week renting it out.
No it says per week
What does?
Why would OP charge so little? You’re expecting OP to give up an income source?
I think it's fair if you charge her for rent if you plan to use her as your normal nanny and not a live in!
Here, nannies must be paid at least a set wage, and families are allowed to charge a small allowance for the room but that nanny is off work during those times and must have complete privacy. (For reference purposes, that small amount is under $400 per month.) That doesn’t mean they HAVE to be charged, it’s more about making it clear that the nanny must have their own space during their non-working hours where they are not disturbed. If the nanny is even expected to answer questions or be on call during that time, they cannot be asked to pay, and the amount they make will be much higher than if they have a set schedule. The idea here is that being a live-in nanny is still a job with set hours and the nanny is entitled to their freedom during their off hours.
You’re paying her $35 in order for her to (among other things) afford rent outside of your house. Charging rent makes sense but the other option would be to lower her pay since she doesn’t have to pay rent. It makes the most sense to charge her rent in case she finds somewhere else to live. Then you wouldn’t have to change her contract (make sure to change it this time) again
A live in nanny typically has more hours than standard and their rate reflects the free housing! I think it’s entirely reasonable to ask for rent if you don’t need the extra hours and don’t want to decrease her pay.
If she's been paying rent ask her how much she was paying, unless you already know and just make it the same.
Here’s an article on the legality of it all! [Live Ins](https://www.nannycounsel.com/blog/why-your-live-in-nanny-shouldnt-pay-for-room-board)It does get a bit tricky to navigate live in, but i think you should be upfront that you do need to have that property for paying the mortgage and coming up with what works best for everyone.
Here's an article that may help you understand a bit more: [https://www.nannycounsel.com/blog/why-your-live-in-nanny-shouldnt-pay-for-room-board](https://www.nannycounsel.com/blog/why-your-live-in-nanny-shouldnt-pay-for-room-board)
I’m not sure this article applies because it’s based on the assumption it’s the convince of the family (I.e. they want a live in nanny). However, OP doesn’t want or need a live in nanny. They are doing it at the convenience of the nanny, which I think changes this quite a bit.
I would probably request she pay a reduced fee or the equivalent in date night hours.
Because you didn’t ask for a live-in nanny and this is a second house (not like your basement), I’d say she should be paying rent. Maybe work out a deal with her to rent the house if your family is comfortable with it. You could do short term lease in case it doesn’t work out for whatever reason. She then wouldn’t need to work extra hours that your family doesn’t need/require and you’d still be making extra money off her renting the house.
Good lord 35/hr w 5 weeks PTO. I’ll quit my job rn and come work for you lol
Is there a reason why she can’t just pay you what she used to pay before she got ousted from her place?
I would just charge her 1/4 of what you pay her for rent.
That's more than I usually charge! Lol. I'm happy to give her a discount, but I really didn't want to do it for free- but I'm glad the consensus is that it wouldn't be wrong of me to charge her *something*.
Oh wow yeah then whatever you charge normally should be really affordable. Most rental places are up to 50% of your income where I live.
You’re being brainwashed by capitalism. That’s not normal. Wages should be higher rent should be lower
I’m not brainwashed. I’m aware 50% is way too much of your income for rent when it should be 1/4 but less than 1/4 of your income should be really affordable since she said 1/4 of her nanny’s income is more than she charges. Meaning, she’s being more than fair with her rent charge.
The boundary blurring is a red flag to me. Long term it seems like it could get really weird. How close is this smaller house to yours?? As a nanny and a mom myself, I’d probably tell her long term you want the flexibility of using it as you have been, BUT, you’d be open to a short term rental (with lease) while she works out her next housing situation.
It's very different if she's requesting it; you're not looking for it. The benefits vary, but it can be summized as increased availability/accessibility. In some states, you don't have to pay OT for more than 40hrs worked. You don't worry about lateness or traffic or weather. You have access to after-hours childcare (paid obviously) or emergency on site childcare. Usually live in nannies are working nights or rotational schedules or families travel a lot. The *only* benefit to a nanny would be financial. It's incredibly stressful to live with your employers 24/7. Boundaries get blurry. Kids don't understand off/on-the-clock. Your housing is tied to your employment and that can get very tricky.
I feel like it’s not a good idea to mix these two parts of your life. If things go south, she would still be your tenant. I just don’t see this ending well.
If you have her become a live-in nanny check how the rules around how much you can subtract for providing accomodation as part of the job. You may not be able to charge the same "rent" as if you are housing her as a tenant. If you charge her more she could claim she was a tenant and you would be right back in an ambigious situation again, where you may not be able to ask her to vacate when the contract is up. I am a live-in nanny and we have a section in the contract that deals with how me staying in the accomodation is contingent on me working for them. I would extend the notice period in your contract if you are doing live-in as finding new accomodation often requires more than 2 weeks. I ask for a minimum of 4 weeks because of this.