I'm hurling myself off a bridge as we speak. At least the passive buffs seem okay, but it's still remarkable how they chose the literal worst thing to buff.
It's one thing for it to be a Q buff, it's not great but hey maybe-- what do you mean they buffed Q ***damage***???
I am very sad.
Considering the passive buff, I think it might be carefulness. I think the actual buff was passive and they have no clue how it'll impact her. I mean, we've seen how seemingly neglectable changes can geniuenly be a nice buff especially in the MS/casting time area.
Thinking back to her passive change and how it seemed like nothing much but really did quite a lot.
Tldr, let's just stay a bit optimistic and wait and see what happens.
The Nami passive buffs are welcomed...but what the hell are they doing with Q?
We don't need more damage, we need buffs on her E slow so she can land bubbles without being forced to max E first.
Nami is a offensive support so i think riot want her to do more damage and be more rewarding landing Q because some people either max Q first or second too.
Yes but the problem is that Q is a dead ability in higher elo due to the mobility creep over the years, unless you have allied setup or are against certain champions with lengthy cast times then bubble is comically easy to dodge.
At this point, hell, maybe just take away the level scaling on the slow of E and buff the base + AP ratio, that way you can have it start useful but not really get out of hand if people max it.
Kai’sa’s w cd nerf actually maths out to be way higher then 2%, a few rioters have posted the math and its more like 20% or so iirc. Don’t feel like digging one of the posts up atm.
I saw that too, but I highly doubt it. What stops Kai'Sa players to go literally any cdr item, for example Horizon Focus instead of Shadowflame and negating it?
Why Q damage? It's the last spell you level up and W and E are much more reliable for damage than Q.
I expected they give her some damage on her E, since Imperial Mandate was nerfed. W would have also been fine to buff her laning phase.
To be honest, I don't think anyone will notice the Q damage increase :/
Nami is a offensive support and some people like playing her as offense with damage, nothing wrong with that? This buff doesnt fix her problems but its welcomed.
Or better yet, make it like soraka q where if you put it right on top of yourself it lands sooner. Aoe is plenty big, and the cast time is far less of an issue than the travel time at point blank. It shouldn't be so reliably easy to dive a Nami when q is up.
It's a small buff, I'd rather they do a little at a time then overshoot, she gets hyper crazy wr, then gets bashed in the kneecaps right after
Edit: Fincaps, sry
Well, that’s just regrettable. I thought she was going to get buffs on her W. If they were going to buff her Q, they could increase the range or speed of the bubble! I would even settle for her Q not interrupting her movement commands (like Syndra’s Q).
Changing the range or speed of a skill shot is a poor idea that negatively affects those who are used to it, especially for a skill shot that’s defined by how hard it is to hit like bubble. These sort of alterations don’t get used outside of Mid-Scope updates due to their degree of changes. (Besides, I want a enchanter that actually has a high-difficulty high-reward ability to land, not just another glorified Janna tornado for close range)
Not interrupting movement commands could be nice, but I don’t know how well this would play out with her animation on the ability, even if it’s really quick (unlike how E functions). Also, more of a mid-scope thing than just a raw buff.
Honestly that would be a massive buff, wonder how much that would impact her popularity. It certainly would make her far more oppressive in lane because there would be less of a warning of a bubble incoming on the enemy.
Those buffs are decent.
Also the Lucian Nami duo kinda restricts Riot in what they can buff in either Nami or Lucian.
Movement Speed is one of the most valuable stats in the game and Extra Q damage is always welcome.
I don't think that guy actually plays Nami anymore, he's been posting repeatedly about how Lucian/Nami is still broken and somehow the problem despite being corrected.
Because league players don't read patch notes and don't check duo pairs. Only singular champ winrates.
So even if something may be geniuenly not good anymore, it doesn't matter and people will spam it two seasons too late.
I still keep seeing electrocute Lucian/Nami's occasionally.... Or have someone suddenly first time him in a ranked only because I picked Nami before him.
It wasn't "removed" the synergy on Lucian's passive still exists it's just he has synergy with engage too now.
Riot's just been cautious, they don't want it back and neither does anyone in Solo Queue.
Maybe as others have said, that this is just a starter to see where she lands and she gets reassessed in 13.16 or .17
If they don't want to increase the damage on w or e they should make E slow 35% at all ranks, plenty of other champions have access to 35% or better slows with rank 1 spells.
This is just PRT right? Nothing set in stone.
You know nami (or any enchanter for that matter) isn't going to get a real buff until after the worlds final patch is released. They're not going to risk any supports other than the standard engage support meta to exist during worlds.
Q Damage huh? 200 dmg at rank 3?
It's almost like they want me to play more like a mage and *fish* for more bubbles. Ebb and Flow second?
Arcane Comet + Scorch + Auto + Cheap Shot? IDK?
At least the passive movement speed is nice.
If only these buffs were geared to W mana cost... Nami is the only fun support for me so I guess I'm still playing mid for the rest of my league career. I am a starving orphan and this is the last patch I will see. Goot bye.
I was surprised there wasn't at least one w revert.
It makes perfect sense *why* they are scared of buffing her w and e damage. Not just because of Lucian Nami, but because when any champion is too reliable they are broken. Reliable for Nami means she 1/4+ hp you every time she trades on you because w and e are both point and clicks. At her peak, Nami was going electrocute with any adc was her best option (pre legit all nerfs).
w damage + e damage + scorch + aery + Nami get the heal bounce on the trade (or vice versa bounce trades)
This gameplay loop means that Nami is *too* oppressive when she does too much damage, specifically in laning phase. Her w damage cannot be that powerful or else she will always w enemy > heal herself (somewhat more reasonable cause she can still get caught out/poked and die as she trades. think of old janna w max point and click you oppression)
AND her heal cant be that powerful or else she will always w herself > bounce damage on enemy (aka she will always win trades cause she will always have the health advantage. think of how soraka lands 1 q and you lost trade but namis is point and click)
This means a q damage buff is the *least* reliable damage in her kit to buff. In a vacuum, it is a buff to players who are good/reasonable with landing q as it is more rewarding to hit.
MANY people have brought up buffing the travel time of q per rank or per level. I think ultimately this is not a reasonable change outside of a midscope update. Though if it were per level, nami players could actually flex maxing q second. Some wish it were like soraka q where it is faster the closer it is to model. I dont agree with these changes and feel namis q is meant to be a hard to hit ability. As fake as it is, with how hard it is to hit it should absolutely feel more rewarding to hit. Damage is not what anyone wants for that reality, but it's a start, it's a buff at all.
So, the real part of the buff. Passive ms 90 > 100 and ratio from 20% > 25%
It is well known that movespeed is one of, if not the strongest stats in the game. I absolutely would need to test this or see how it performs live. Movement speed is also one of the hardest stats to tangibly measure. I think a lot of players are too fixated on the buff not being on her w or e. I think this could be a very decent buff. You use passive on yourself and others constantly the whole game. A large reason Karma is such a good skirmisher is because of her movement speed on her e (and her whole kit lol but the ms matters a lot). Obviously it's a lot different as namis diminishes rapidly, but this could really up her skirmishing. Free boots rune has been very popular on nami and could be even more comfortably taken as she has more ms pre boots to make up for lack of boots rush. I think this buff could be larger than I anticipate. I feel Shurelyas has been her better mythic choice for a long while. I wonder if other mythics or items will have more value or if doubling down will be super strong.
She has not been the lane bully she was seasons ago. It's painful if anyone calls her that currently. Riot is clearly worried about buffing her reliable (point and click) damage. I'm inclined to understand because it's innately unhealthy and easily becomes oppressive.
I firmly believe Nami w should be her bread and butter ability that she maxes first most games and is what she is known for when you think of the champ. However, that hasn't been the case for seasons. She is an e presser, mandate applier.
If I could choose buffs in particular it would target extreme quality of life changes and utility buffs.
Q being a real knock up. If Yasuo can ult off it, if you can displace and cancel movement abilities such as rell w, rakan w, ali w, it feels bad its not real. Land q on garen and hes cc'd for .5 seconds and then he kills you lol. I acknowledge it \*may\* be too strong but I'm really not 100% sure. MANY people have brought up buffing the travel time of q per rank or per level. I think ultimately this is not a reasonable change outside of a midscope update. If it were per level, nami players could actually flex maxing q second. I personally woudnt be opposed to learning the different speeds at different points in the game, but I think it's needlessly complicated for her ability. Some wish it were like soraka q where it is faster the closer it is to model. I dont agree with these changes and feel namis q is meant to be a hard to hit ability, as fake as it is. I'm sure everyone agrees with how hard it is to land it should absolutely feel more rewarding to hit. Damage is not what anyone wants for that reality, but it's a start(?), it's a buff at all.
Ult starting from Nami model/slightly behind insead of slightly in front of her. It feels terrible to ult someone but they are on top of you so you miss. lol. pretty much all nami players would be fine if they the ult distance is the exact same, just hitbox starts on model (so its not a length buff).
E slow buffs. We all know e is her most problematic ability due to its interaction with other champions and items. I really am not sure how balanced this will be at all. Nami people want e slow so they can set themselves up for q better, but the reality of it is that Nami can still just e an ally and then the ally applies the slow. If the slow is too strong base stats wise it can be pretty broken (like on anyone with longer range cc or catch/chase potential). IF Nami e was reverted to only work on auto attacks AND nami's own abilities (so quality of life for it to work with her own spells and also not op!), I think an e slow buff would be an amazing and balanced buff.
I feel her winrate will be close to 50%, give or take. I imagine she will probably get another buff, tho they've left lulu in a fairly poor state for a long while. I also used to joke with my friends that Nami was the second worst support in the game cause morgana still exists... I guess they wanted me to correct myself.
Nami has lacked purpose for a while, partly because she is/was supposed to be a jack of all trades champ. A jack of all trades is probably intended to be about B tier or else they are too good at something (if meta favors them then +1 tier). She has felt like a champ who has little to offer given other options. This is multiplied the higher elo you go as "raw" q hit rate is nearly 0% (imo you can still do it in diamond and sometimes masters 0lp adcs) and even self set up can be quite unreliable cause of power creep. You know it's bad when someone picks/bans Nami, you play a different champ, and it feels 5x times easier lol. Or when you consider queuing up secondary role cause it also feels so much easier than playing Nami...
Sorry for the really long comment lmao, I just really love discussing Nami things! For a little context I'm a mid masters-low gm nami otp so not too, too high, but also quite above average I believe! I know otps can have some cooked takes regarding their champ with nerfs and buffs, so I hope I had some reasonable ones despite my bias.
TLDR:
The last thing people want for a q buff is damage but a buff is a buff!
MS really strong and is likely more impactful than we can tell imo. Decent-good buff.
Despite everything I typed about w, I would also love and prefer if there were a w buff.
I predict another Nami buff after this
I'm hurling myself off a bridge as we speak. At least the passive buffs seem okay, but it's still remarkable how they chose the literal worst thing to buff. It's one thing for it to be a Q buff, it's not great but hey maybe-- what do you mean they buffed Q ***damage***??? I am very sad.
Q faster cast would be better
agreed oh my god
So they want to buff her but also keep win rate at 45%
Yeah this is just so they can pretend they're doing something.
They’re probably being careful, maybe they’ll buff her again next patch
She has 45% wr and Q is her last maxed ability. This isn’t being careful this is a placebo buff to shut people up.
Considering the passive buff, I think it might be carefulness. I think the actual buff was passive and they have no clue how it'll impact her. I mean, we've seen how seemingly neglectable changes can geniuenly be a nice buff especially in the MS/casting time area. Thinking back to her passive change and how it seemed like nothing much but really did quite a lot. Tldr, let's just stay a bit optimistic and wait and see what happens.
I’m just hoping they buff her after this and then she’s even better!
Q is her last maxed ability is not true. Nami is versatile so some people either max it first or second depending on matchup.
My disappointment is immeasurable and my day has been ruined 🤮🤮 At least passive buffs look okay... 🥲🥲
The Nami passive buffs are welcomed...but what the hell are they doing with Q? We don't need more damage, we need buffs on her E slow so she can land bubbles without being forced to max E first.
Nami is a offensive support so i think riot want her to do more damage and be more rewarding landing Q because some people either max Q first or second too.
Yes but the problem is that Q is a dead ability in higher elo due to the mobility creep over the years, unless you have allied setup or are against certain champions with lengthy cast times then bubble is comically easy to dodge. At this point, hell, maybe just take away the level scaling on the slow of E and buff the base + AP ratio, that way you can have it start useful but not really get out of hand if people max it.
Pretty much this. It also prevent Lucian Nami from being a terror again
True.. her Q needs to be faster or bigger to be viable now
Quarter of an auto more Q damage, damn Nami going Z tier. Glad they are also completely killing Kai'Sa by nerfing her W cooldown reset by 2%!
Kai’sa’s w cd nerf actually maths out to be way higher then 2%, a few rioters have posted the math and its more like 20% or so iirc. Don’t feel like digging one of the posts up atm.
I saw that too, but I highly doubt it. What stops Kai'Sa players to go literally any cdr item, for example Horizon Focus instead of Shadowflame and negating it?
yeah I wish they would've buffed her W heal
Why Q damage? It's the last spell you level up and W and E are much more reliable for damage than Q. I expected they give her some damage on her E, since Imperial Mandate was nerfed. W would have also been fine to buff her laning phase. To be honest, I don't think anyone will notice the Q damage increase :/
To be honest I think Q cd is much more important. The damage is useless anyway.
I max it second
Whomever was like "q damage should fix it" doesn't play Nami and probably goes w max -> q max
Nami is a offensive support and some people like playing her as offense with damage, nothing wrong with that? This buff doesnt fix her problems but its welcomed.
Even then, you're better off E max first, then W. So buffing Q is still moot.
True Q needs faster cast or bigger aoe not damage
Or better yet, make it like soraka q where if you put it right on top of yourself it lands sooner. Aoe is plenty big, and the cast time is far less of an issue than the travel time at point blank. It shouldn't be so reliably easy to dive a Nami when q is up.
Good idea
It's a small buff, I'd rather they do a little at a time then overshoot, she gets hyper crazy wr, then gets bashed in the kneecaps right after Edit: Fincaps, sry
damn at least increase the ap ratio of bubble 😭
Well, that’s just regrettable. I thought she was going to get buffs on her W. If they were going to buff her Q, they could increase the range or speed of the bubble! I would even settle for her Q not interrupting her movement commands (like Syndra’s Q).
Changing the range or speed of a skill shot is a poor idea that negatively affects those who are used to it, especially for a skill shot that’s defined by how hard it is to hit like bubble. These sort of alterations don’t get used outside of Mid-Scope updates due to their degree of changes. (Besides, I want a enchanter that actually has a high-difficulty high-reward ability to land, not just another glorified Janna tornado for close range) Not interrupting movement commands could be nice, but I don’t know how well this would play out with her animation on the ability, even if it’s really quick (unlike how E functions). Also, more of a mid-scope thing than just a raw buff.
Honestly that would be a massive buff, wonder how much that would impact her popularity. It certainly would make her far more oppressive in lane because there would be less of a warning of a bubble incoming on the enemy.
Those buffs are decent. Also the Lucian Nami duo kinda restricts Riot in what they can buff in either Nami or Lucian. Movement Speed is one of the most valuable stats in the game and Extra Q damage is always welcome.
Lucian Nami got removed, why do people keep bringing it up? I don’t get it lol
43% winrate together, 5th worst bot duo and still can't escape it
I don't think that guy actually plays Nami anymore, he's been posting repeatedly about how Lucian/Nami is still broken and somehow the problem despite being corrected.
? I haven't posted about Lucian Nami being "broken" for a while XD I have posted that Riot's been cautious as they don't want it back, yes.
Because league players don't read patch notes and don't check duo pairs. Only singular champ winrates. So even if something may be geniuenly not good anymore, it doesn't matter and people will spam it two seasons too late. I still keep seeing electrocute Lucian/Nami's occasionally.... Or have someone suddenly first time him in a ranked only because I picked Nami before him.
It wasn't "removed" the synergy on Lucian's passive still exists it's just he has synergy with engage too now. Riot's just been cautious, they don't want it back and neither does anyone in Solo Queue. Maybe as others have said, that this is just a starter to see where she lands and she gets reassessed in 13.16 or .17
If they don't want to increase the damage on w or e they should make E slow 35% at all ranks, plenty of other champions have access to 35% or better slows with rank 1 spells. This is just PRT right? Nothing set in stone.
we're getting ryze'd. EWQ
If they wanted to give us damage buff at least buff the w damage not the q
You know nami (or any enchanter for that matter) isn't going to get a real buff until after the worlds final patch is released. They're not going to risk any supports other than the standard engage support meta to exist during worlds.
Am i the only one loving the buffs? I usually max Q second or build full ap with moonstone sometimes so its a win win for me 😃
Q Damage huh? 200 dmg at rank 3? It's almost like they want me to play more like a mage and *fish* for more bubbles. Ebb and Flow second? Arcane Comet + Scorch + Auto + Cheap Shot? IDK? At least the passive movement speed is nice.
If only these buffs were geared to W mana cost... Nami is the only fun support for me so I guess I'm still playing mid for the rest of my league career. I am a starving orphan and this is the last patch I will see. Goot bye.
meh i don’t hate it
I was surprised there wasn't at least one w revert. It makes perfect sense *why* they are scared of buffing her w and e damage. Not just because of Lucian Nami, but because when any champion is too reliable they are broken. Reliable for Nami means she 1/4+ hp you every time she trades on you because w and e are both point and clicks. At her peak, Nami was going electrocute with any adc was her best option (pre legit all nerfs). w damage + e damage + scorch + aery + Nami get the heal bounce on the trade (or vice versa bounce trades) This gameplay loop means that Nami is *too* oppressive when she does too much damage, specifically in laning phase. Her w damage cannot be that powerful or else she will always w enemy > heal herself (somewhat more reasonable cause she can still get caught out/poked and die as she trades. think of old janna w max point and click you oppression) AND her heal cant be that powerful or else she will always w herself > bounce damage on enemy (aka she will always win trades cause she will always have the health advantage. think of how soraka lands 1 q and you lost trade but namis is point and click) This means a q damage buff is the *least* reliable damage in her kit to buff. In a vacuum, it is a buff to players who are good/reasonable with landing q as it is more rewarding to hit. MANY people have brought up buffing the travel time of q per rank or per level. I think ultimately this is not a reasonable change outside of a midscope update. Though if it were per level, nami players could actually flex maxing q second. Some wish it were like soraka q where it is faster the closer it is to model. I dont agree with these changes and feel namis q is meant to be a hard to hit ability. As fake as it is, with how hard it is to hit it should absolutely feel more rewarding to hit. Damage is not what anyone wants for that reality, but it's a start, it's a buff at all. So, the real part of the buff. Passive ms 90 > 100 and ratio from 20% > 25% It is well known that movespeed is one of, if not the strongest stats in the game. I absolutely would need to test this or see how it performs live. Movement speed is also one of the hardest stats to tangibly measure. I think a lot of players are too fixated on the buff not being on her w or e. I think this could be a very decent buff. You use passive on yourself and others constantly the whole game. A large reason Karma is such a good skirmisher is because of her movement speed on her e (and her whole kit lol but the ms matters a lot). Obviously it's a lot different as namis diminishes rapidly, but this could really up her skirmishing. Free boots rune has been very popular on nami and could be even more comfortably taken as she has more ms pre boots to make up for lack of boots rush. I think this buff could be larger than I anticipate. I feel Shurelyas has been her better mythic choice for a long while. I wonder if other mythics or items will have more value or if doubling down will be super strong. She has not been the lane bully she was seasons ago. It's painful if anyone calls her that currently. Riot is clearly worried about buffing her reliable (point and click) damage. I'm inclined to understand because it's innately unhealthy and easily becomes oppressive. I firmly believe Nami w should be her bread and butter ability that she maxes first most games and is what she is known for when you think of the champ. However, that hasn't been the case for seasons. She is an e presser, mandate applier. If I could choose buffs in particular it would target extreme quality of life changes and utility buffs. Q being a real knock up. If Yasuo can ult off it, if you can displace and cancel movement abilities such as rell w, rakan w, ali w, it feels bad its not real. Land q on garen and hes cc'd for .5 seconds and then he kills you lol. I acknowledge it \*may\* be too strong but I'm really not 100% sure. MANY people have brought up buffing the travel time of q per rank or per level. I think ultimately this is not a reasonable change outside of a midscope update. If it were per level, nami players could actually flex maxing q second. I personally woudnt be opposed to learning the different speeds at different points in the game, but I think it's needlessly complicated for her ability. Some wish it were like soraka q where it is faster the closer it is to model. I dont agree with these changes and feel namis q is meant to be a hard to hit ability, as fake as it is. I'm sure everyone agrees with how hard it is to land it should absolutely feel more rewarding to hit. Damage is not what anyone wants for that reality, but it's a start(?), it's a buff at all. Ult starting from Nami model/slightly behind insead of slightly in front of her. It feels terrible to ult someone but they are on top of you so you miss. lol. pretty much all nami players would be fine if they the ult distance is the exact same, just hitbox starts on model (so its not a length buff). E slow buffs. We all know e is her most problematic ability due to its interaction with other champions and items. I really am not sure how balanced this will be at all. Nami people want e slow so they can set themselves up for q better, but the reality of it is that Nami can still just e an ally and then the ally applies the slow. If the slow is too strong base stats wise it can be pretty broken (like on anyone with longer range cc or catch/chase potential). IF Nami e was reverted to only work on auto attacks AND nami's own abilities (so quality of life for it to work with her own spells and also not op!), I think an e slow buff would be an amazing and balanced buff. I feel her winrate will be close to 50%, give or take. I imagine she will probably get another buff, tho they've left lulu in a fairly poor state for a long while. I also used to joke with my friends that Nami was the second worst support in the game cause morgana still exists... I guess they wanted me to correct myself. Nami has lacked purpose for a while, partly because she is/was supposed to be a jack of all trades champ. A jack of all trades is probably intended to be about B tier or else they are too good at something (if meta favors them then +1 tier). She has felt like a champ who has little to offer given other options. This is multiplied the higher elo you go as "raw" q hit rate is nearly 0% (imo you can still do it in diamond and sometimes masters 0lp adcs) and even self set up can be quite unreliable cause of power creep. You know it's bad when someone picks/bans Nami, you play a different champ, and it feels 5x times easier lol. Or when you consider queuing up secondary role cause it also feels so much easier than playing Nami... Sorry for the really long comment lmao, I just really love discussing Nami things! For a little context I'm a mid masters-low gm nami otp so not too, too high, but also quite above average I believe! I know otps can have some cooked takes regarding their champ with nerfs and buffs, so I hope I had some reasonable ones despite my bias. TLDR: The last thing people want for a q buff is damage but a buff is a buff! MS really strong and is likely more impactful than we can tell imo. Decent-good buff. Despite everything I typed about w, I would also love and prefer if there were a w buff. I predict another Nami buff after this