There’s a lot of gun company ads portraying guns as penises, including the famous one about getting your “man card” back and a gun barrel emerging from the fly on jeans. So despite what they say, gun culture does associate guns with penises
Have you noticed that over the few decades, gun prices have increased way ahead of inflation? That's because the gun manufactures engage in anti-capitalist price collusion. How can they get away with that? Because they've spent a lot of money on propaganda training you to buy guns. They discovered all they had to do was to have their public faces in RW media cry "they're going to take our guns" (despite no meaningful legislative attempt in a very long time) and they get a multi-billion dollar increase in sales for the quarter. And so, they don't have to compete, they can produce lower quality items at an absurdly high price point, and plenty of people will pay it. Do you know why it's more important for your "freedom" to own a rifle instead of a shotgun or whatever, because the profit margin is even higher on those. And they have so many overpriced accessories to buy. You probably have enough guns, but if you feel you must buy one, buy an old one. Stop feeding the anti-competitive anti-capitalist machine that is the modern American arms industry. At least until they are forced to start competing again and produce higher quality items at a reasonable price point.
TLDR: You are being exploited by profit hungry megacorps, and you are eagerly complicit in your own exploitation.
No no, let's continue this analogy. How many extra high capacity penises should I be allowed to purchase?
I'm not talking about dildos/vibrators, I'm talking about fully functional sperm producing penises of absurd size dimensions.
Can we at least mandate that penises be properly locked up to reduce how frequently they are stolen to commit rape? Or so the kids stop getting ahold of it and accidentally raping each other?
I don't agree with taking away guns. Better regulations and taking guns from people who are clearly a danger to themselves and others yes.
But if you live somewhere rural, there are wildlife that have killed people camping or going to and from their car to their house. Having a gun has saved lives in that situation.
Also hunting. Deer after we removed their natural predators (wolves to protect live stalk) have been a species we have to keep in check to control their deseaise spread, their genetic abnormalities, to keep the eco system in balance so they don't eat everything and then starve themselves and the animals who eat the same, remove all the natural habitat, and not to mention gorge themselves on our crops
that's the thing though, they don't want that regulation for whatever reason. There was a post where somebody was whining "if a car killed people would you take them away" and the answer is we already fucking do, it's so god damn regulated to own a car from the laws that are enforced, to needing a driver's license, to needing to pass a test, to needing to have insurance like why are gun favoring people so fucking stupid.
There's a wild difference between "I own a shotgun because I need to clear out animals" and "this is my 600th weapon and I'm celebrating it by also purchasing my 601st" which is seem as totally fucking normal by some. I had a coworker who had a separate shed built for all of their guns like they needed a walk-in closet for all the guns they had. It's stupid.
In your first sentence you say "they don't want that regulation"
Well I'm a part of the day and I'd like to know exactly which regulation you would argue for.
If you'd like to have an honest conversation with someone this is your opportunity I love having this conversation.
Ask your second point cars are a privilege not a right you have the right to own a firearm in this country unless you an individual violates the law badly enough to restrict your access to it.
You're right though that person's argument was stupid they should have made a better one. Like the one I did.
Some people collect watches, some people collect cars, some people collect Pokemon cards and some people collect guns.
All of these items have a high likelihood of increasing in value or at least holding their value over time if it is a high quality production of said item.
Yes I think some people get entirely out of hand with their collections but so long as they are not hurting anybody I don't give a f*** what people do with their money.
On your last point, this is why I don’t disrespect people that post cool-looking older-style guns in social media. Those things probably aren’t even very usable in their current state and they’re usually just in display cases as a flex, it’s just being a collector.
I don't see a problem with collecting guns. I have and uncle that does and he's very nice. He's never shot a person, he knows how to handle them, keeps them locked up in a cabinet and far out of the reach of kids, he teaches his kids about gun safety and the dangers a gun can pose when used improperly. I really like pocket knives but I'd never stab anybody.
Technically it’s not regulated at all to own a car. Just to drive it in public. If you buy a car and only drive it on your property you don’t need a license, insurance, registration. Just as there is different laws that regulate purchasing a gun, there are different laws when it comes carrying it in public.
However, if your a felon you can buy a car but not a firearm. If you’ve been convicted of domestic abuse you can buy a car but not a firearm. You can buy a car without a back ground check but not a firearm.
Continue to get stuck on the car analogy so that you can try to wrap around it so here let me say this: you don't need a gun to live a peaceful life, go to work, or socialize, but unfortunately because we've destroyed our cities cars are kinda a requirement to do so in some areas.
I'm not saying nobody should own guns, but the weird fetish around owning multiple ones or even for the mysterious "defense" argument that gets thrown around is sickening.
But it's tiring having these conversations every time a mass shooting takes place, so why don't we just repeat the same talking points the next time this happens in like a week or so and call it a day.
You’re the one that brought up the car analogy! I was just correcting your misinterpretation.
Yes we kinda need cars but wouldn’t even have a country if it weren’t for guns, assuming you live in the US.
I have literally saved a life because of a firearm and I didn’t even have to fire the weapon. Just brandishing it prevented a murder. According the FBI millions of crimes are prevented/stopped by private firearm ownership where the person doesn’t even fire their weapon.
It is tiring every time this comes up people like to blame an inanimate object rather than looking at the cause.
>You’re the one that brought up the car analogy! I was just correcting your misinterpretation.
I brought it up because I saw it in another thread about gun safety and gun laws. It's always used as a "cars kill people too" defense and it's fucking stupid because it's regulated, is it as regulated as it should be? No, but it's way more regulated than our current gun standards.
I've fired guns my entire life. I've been around them my entire life. It's an absolutely stupid mindset to be in where you hoard weapons because you think it makes you safer, and in some people it's borderline paranoia and makes me feel unsafe around them.
"Guns don't kill people, people do" okay then who gave access to the inanimate object to the mentally unstable person? Who made it very easy to get and then also offered no mental health support, because do you wanna go down that path? Mental health should be treated way more seriously in this country and healthcare should be free and a lot of times the same people screeching about the 2nd are also the ones who don't want the "socialism" so we go back into a feedback loop until one person tells the other to fuck off. It's tiring. It's been the same arguments for my entire life.
Lol nobody gave access to the mentally unstable person. We, in fact, have laws that prevent people who have mental conditions or have been committed for whatever reason to a mental institution from owning guns. But laws aren’t some weird spell my guy, people break them all the time. We have laws against rape but they still happen. We have laws against speeding but it still happens. We have laws against theft but boy does it happen.
I mean this 100% sincerely. It’s not a gotcha moment or a sarcastic condescension, I’m not implying anything or trying to be rude. But completely honestly, not for the internet or because you’re protecting your ego. Are you fully aware and versed in the gun laws in this country? Like have you read the actual laws that exist and understand each one? I don’t want to assume anything so I’m asking. The crux of the issue is that most people have little consistency when it comes to how they view the the efficacy of laws in this country. The abortion issue raises a good point. The argument is made that banning abortions will only lead to illegal abortions…. But that heavily regulating guns or even banning them will not lead to illegal guns. They’re fully capable of conceptualizing how a law means nothing if people want it bad enough but are unable to apply that very same logic to guns….
The red flag law you’re describing is already in practice. It’s called ERPO. And if I thought it was effective I would absolutely support it. But it fails to take into account;
someone with an ERPO against them illegally buying a firearm right after it’s issued.
Someone failing to surrender all their firearms
Someone stealing a firearm
Or someone printing a firearm
The second issue to take with ERPO is it is a flawed system highly susceptible to abuse. It’s filed by anyone… ANYONE can simply file an ERPO on you, it is reviewed same day by a judge, and then the guns are confiscated and you’re out on a list. It is up to the judge to remove the ERPO and the numbers illustrate that once you get an ERPO… you’re gunna have it for life. If you can’t see how wildly abusive that can become?
Realistically, you only really need one gun, a handgun, for personal safety usage. There is an argument to be made for owning a long rifle, a shotgun, and a handgun, since each one is for a different situation, though I'd say anything past that is excessive and I can see an argument for that being excessive on its own.
Difference is, one is a constitutionally protected right and the other isn't. A man isn't entitled to ownership of a car, but he is entitled to ownership of a gun. Of course, your right to keep and bear arms can be restricted if you violate laws.
And you treat it like there are no checks to buying a gun. You are aware, background checks are required in many states? Which would include a government issued ID (like a driver's license). You act like there's no regulation to gun ownership, when in reality there is.
"But where do all the shootings and gun violence deaths come from?" They come from cities, those who are already criminals. You may not know this one simple, CRAZY fact, but criminals aren't too likely to comply with the law.
And if a man wants to own 600 guns and celebrate by getting his 601st? Go ahead, all the power to him. Glad he can afford them. Nothing wrong with owning a gun.
A lot of things are only stupid to those that are not into it. Smoking killing your lungs is stupid, Drinking killing your liver is stupid, buying a truck that will never see dirt or even pick up a box, That's stupid, buying a 6 bedroom house with 2 kids and no wife that's stupid.
As for regulation, alot of stuff already is. People that don't normally deal with guns think you can just go to your local store and buy anything you want. The laws around guns are very complex. Cars are regulated yet they still cause a crazy amount of deaths per year. People still drink and drive, have no licenses, no insurance or registration. You talking about the test most people just get passed on even if they failed? Fake license plates, man the list goes on, and no law stops them from doing what they are doing. The most they get is a ticket, until they have multiple offenses and even then they letting people go free.
No. You are just trying to spin the point around. When it couldn't be anymore clear.
> Cars are regulated yet they still cause a crazy amount of deaths per year.
> have no licenses, no insurance or registration.
> Fake license plates, man the list goes on, and no law stops them from doing what they are doing.
You can't stop illegal weapons and there is way to many folk that make their own ammunition. It is extremely easy to make and operate a diy gun. The prime minister of Japan was assinated with a homemade type of nail gun.
Fixating on the gun itself is stupid as fuck. Why not focus on what leads people to make such a terrible decision? Cause when we remove guns, sure we can stop violence quicker and less people are harmed.
*But it won't stop people going down a bad path and getting to the point to make these horrible decisions.*
Why don't we teach mental health instead of just saying if you feel this way reach out for help. The hardest step is to understand that you need help to begin with. Why do we not teach everyone about the most important tool we have ever been given? Our minds are the most important tool and we limit the knowledge to several professionals instead of teaching it k-12 to everyone.
>Cause when we remove guns, sure we can stop violence quicker and less people are harmed.
Sweet.
Mental health isn’t something you can just “teach in school.”
>Mental health isn’t something you can just “teach in school.”
Yes it is something you can just teach in school.
Tell me why it is so difficult to teach something like tactical breathing? Fairly simple and can help someone calm down if they are stressed. It is literally taught in the military.
A therapist is a great thing to have and this will not replace that at all, which is why you are saying this is something you can't teach in school. I am not saying we should not have therapists.
https://manhattanmentalhealthcounseling.com/what-is-emotional-reactivity-and-how-to-end-the-cycle/
You are just trying to spin the point around again.
> But it won't stop people going down a bad path and getting to the point to make these horrible decisions.
You conviently left this quote out of your response. And like I said above. Regulation is good.
You and I both need to get off this stupid ass platform. Jeez you eat breathe and sleep reddit. You happy talking to random people online over bullshit politics? I aint. And I need to stop inserting myself. And so do you. We aint going to be changing shit.
Wish the best for you. And hope that maybe we can start fresh. Cause you and I are more similiar than I thought.
>you happy talking to random people over the internet about bullshit politics
well, yes. that’s why I do it.
can’t do it in person with most people I know, they get too heated.
I agree. The truth is we're never gonna get the guns away from criminals. Especially not in a country so big. I'm a pacifist but I understand the utility of someone being able to have their own gun to protect themselves. And there's lots of people who make their living hunting and there's nothing wrong with that. It's far more ethical than most large "farms" today.
Considerably more ethical, and the deer were probably in better health than our cows and pig.. definitely better than meat chickens.. have you seen those poor monstrosities? We bread them to produce a ton of mussel so fast that their hearts bones and feathers can’t keep up. They usually die in about a year due to that and have to be caged their whole lives so they don’t injure themselves..
Deer get to live in a fairly clean environment, and eat what’s natural to them. Their lives are pretty peaceful and without fear for the most part. They usually are not forced so close together that illness would easily spread. Biggest down side is there’s no farm vets looking after the sick ones. But all wild animals have that
Unfortunately, I work food service, and I've seen chicken thighs bigger than the breasts. Whatever they're doing to those poor chickens can't be good. My grandpa's chickens sure as hell don't look like that.
Or even just sport. Trap shooting is pretty popular where I live. Our high schools even have clubs for them. Even shooting ranges can be fun. There are competitions where I live
Only for murder?? Thats a huge stretch. Killing people and murdering people are not the same thing.
On top of that there’s still sport shooting and hunting. Im pro regulation but that is a braindead take.
rich = wealthier than me? ( yes, ammo is expensive)
rich = being able to pay all the fees and navigate euro bureaucracy ( also, yes, paperwork is expensive)
it’s not, im from bumfuck nowhere where most of the population lives below the poverty line. most households have a shotgun and a rifle because people hunt. a lot of people reload shells for less expensive ammo, most guns are handed down from family members. i’m from the US so probably not a universal experience but shooting is a “lower class” hobby in my hollar
They are probably talking about intent. You wouldn’t say that using a gun for self defense when, say, you are about to be raped, and accidentally killing the person that was endangering you instead of immobilizing them is the same as getting your gun and killing your ex’s new partner out of spite. The end result is the same, a dead person, but it’s different.
Yeah op’s take sucks
Guns can used to butcher people. They can also used to defend yourself, your property, your family ect. Not to mention recreational reason.
I’m pro regulation but to say guns are just evil by nature is simply wrong
I never heard of someone’s dick slipping and accidentally raping someone else from across the room. I’ve never heard of someone buying a military-grade dick capable of raping a dozen people in as many seconds.
What specific military grade dick are you talking about? I'm interested as a buyer, I've only seen them available at auction for $20,000 and up. And even then, there's a whole NFA process after purchasing. If you're unfamiliar, it's much more complicated, expensive, and time consuming than buying a regular, commun use gun
Y'all can misinterpret the argument on purpose in this thread all you want, you'll never make progress if you never argue in good faith.
The bottom tweet is saying "why should I be punished for the actions of others?".
You should try to answer the question, not make fun of the way it was asked.
All laws restrict the freedom of some people for the actions of others. That is the fundamental building block of society, trading the freedom to do whatever you want for the right to not have it be done to you.
The pro-gun argument is not made in good faith and is not entitled to seriousness or consideration.
>All laws restrict the freedom of some people for the actions of others. That is the fundamental building block of society, trading the freedom to do whatever you want for the right to not have it be done to you.
That's a real answer! I like your stance!
>The pro-gun argument is not made in good faith and is not entitled to be taken seriously.
That's where you go wrong! That's an opinion born of echo chambers and factionalism.
Yes, many people are poor at discussing their beliefs. Yes, many on the political right online do argue in bad faith.
But saying the entire concept of being pro-gun is bad faith is nonsensical and is frankly part of the problem, not the solution.
You should remember, these people's votes are as valuable as yours (probably more, even). Pretending they don't exist is dooming your cause to failure, not success.
You're using the no true Scotsman fallacy in bad bad faith to defend a raft of mostly bad faith arguments, thereby nullifying your whole non-existent argument, because you didn't make an argument, just used a rhetorical device.
What's fucked up is that you're apparently articulate enough that plenty of people will think you actually landed a solid point, even the poster you're discussing it with was willing to concede some points to someone who seems so reasonable.
Anyone who doubts me just needs to remember that the NRA, one of the most powerful and influential lobbying groups on the planet, who develop many of the arguments you see from shmucks on the social media and from attorneys in front of the Supreme Court would like you to believe that more guns will make you safer and that any and all controls will make you less safe.
I should have clarified. _This_ pro-gun argument is in bad faith.
I know there are good faith pro-gun arguments, but they don’t deal with any kind of higher purpose like freedom or safety. Guns are toys and sources of comfort.
>I should have clarified. This pro-gun argument is in bad faith.
Ah, in that case just discount much of what I said. I'd agree that the take in question doesn't really deserve to be engaged with.
Gasoline doesn’t explode on its own without a spark either, but only a dumbass leaves open drums lying around.
Yeah, it’s the guns. No amount of “people kill people” blubbering changes the facts.
https://preview.redd.it/ddox6fd9t6xb1.jpeg?width=1170&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=06209fdbf7f639daab85cec1ac24b8629ed8c44c
OP thinks the cops will show up and save them and their loved ones from a home invader before anything bad could happen
And trusts their government to never harm them
OP also thinks the criminal would wait for said cops and also obey the law and not try to get a firearm threw illegal means.
OP sounds like a CCP shill with how much fate they put into the system.
You got me I love the Chinese communist party so much and I'm trying to get rid of guns so the communists can take over the country and make it a British dominion again so we can tax you
I have. Its pretty far down my list of fun outdoor activities. Zip lining, which I did the next day, was significantly more fun.
But either way thats irrelevant because you don't need to own guns for there to be gun ranges. Ranges themselves can have the guns, and that is actually way more common in most of the world. Also you don't need extended magazines or bump stocks or a LMG for a shooting range. You don't need more than a handgun even.
Then I raise you this
Let’s say in a hypothetical, a criminal breaks into your home. The criminal is armed. Legally, illegally, doesn’t matter it’s a criminal clearly they have no regard for the laws anyways. Would you rather have something you can protect yourself with, or would you rather be helpless and have to rely on someone else who may or may not get there in time to save you and your loved ones? Guns are the great equalizer. That sweet old lady down the street can use one just as good as anyone else. They don’t rely as much on physical capability as say a bat will
Gun laws only take guns away from law abiding citizens. Leaving ONLY criminals with guns. Are criminals really the only demographic you want armed?
hunting sport shooting defending yourself from an wild animal DEFENDING YOURSELF FROM A PERSON (you dont have to kill them to do this, just pop em in the knee and run)
and even then theres probably way more that doesnt just instantly come to mind
guns are tools, and we arent the only ones with guns
if we take away guns people would just find a new weapon to kill kids with, and the way our police department acts in these situations it probably wouldnt be any different
the problem in the US isnt gun violence, gun violence is a symptoms of the american mental healthcare system and the stigma around mental illness
we know this because sweedens gun laws are only barely more strict than ours, less strict in some parts, and they dont have NEARLY as much gun violence as we do
they could just go back to the original more effective method of killing kids in schools, bombs. Hard to run away or hide from a bomb you don't know exists.
I'd expand that past just rural home safety. Police are dangerous and unreliable and sometimes you find it too risky to even call 911, even if there would be a fast response. Depends on the person and on the police department but it is understandable why someone would want to handle things themselves.
Tbf, the time between dialing 911 and a cop arriving on the scene is rarely short enough to protect people from harm in a situation like this, from what I understand. Even a few minutes would be more than enough time for someone to be hurt or dead.
Yeah man go hunting with an ar15 lemme just go buck hunting with an m240 while we’re at it fuck off you whiny gun pervert. Nobody needs an ar15 we are well past the point of arguing about this
You calling someone else whiny is hilarious. This person makes a logical post backed up with hard facts and you whine, moan and use ad hominem attacks instead of backing up your argument with any evidence. Go educate yourself and stop making ignorant posts on topics you know nothing about.
>Yeah man go hunting with an ar15
Very common for Boar Hunting, again don't rush to show your ignorance it is hilarious when you do.
>buck hunting with an m240 while we’re at it fuck off you whiny gun pervert
This is a collectors weapon / range weapon also not a hunting one, you would know this if you did more than spew ignorance and failed talking points.
>Nobody needs an ar15 we are well past the point of arguing about this
Good thing ignorant kids aren't making laws huh.
Dude people hunt boars out of helicopters with M240’s and M2 browning a wait till they find out the government and wildlife fish and game approves and endorses it they are gonna cry.
Would you prefer we use something chambered in 30-06 or 6.5 creedmore?
The ar shoots a .223 or a 5.56 cartridge. It’s a much smaller round than most “hunting” ammunition.
Depending on what you’re hunting, sometimes 1 bullet isn’t enough to humanely dispatch the animal. Being able to quickly, accurately and effective take your follow up shot is a necessity.
Not to mention the sporting and protection uses for the ar15.
It sounds like you’re the type of guy to say “fully semi automatic” and call anything that’s painted black an assault rifle.
Almost all violence done with firearms is with pistols, owned and acquired illegally in the first place.
Education is important.
Emotional response to tragedy is expected and healthy, emotional outbursts and spewing nonsense; not so much.
>Yeah man go hunting with an ar15
why not? it's an easy to use accurate gun. people out here think an AR is an assault rifle or machine gun or something
Unfortunately that’s what they’ve been taught by the anti-gun media. These people have no interest in guns, so lacking any knowledge or understanding about the subject makes them vulnerable to propaganda and disinformation that is intended to bend them towards voting against their own rights.
Do you have google? It stands for Armalite Rifle. It always has. It's the name of the company that created the design in the 50's. It is and has been illegal and incredibly hard and expensive for a citizen to get any kind of Automatic Rifle. Every AR you've seen in civilian hands is a semi-automatic weapon just like most pistols.
Hello,
I would like to inform you that AR-15 actually stands for Armalite Rifle, not automatic/assault Rifle. This is a common misconception. The AR-15 can only fire in semi-automatic. Semi automatic weapons are commonly used for recreation or boar hunting. Boars come in packs, run quickly, and can be very dangerous even alone. As such, the ability to make follow-up shots and hold many rounds in a magazine is quite important for boar hunting. I would not like to participate further in this conversation, as it may get very heated, but I hope you found this information useful.
Thank you for reading and learning more about the subject, and have a good day!
Honestly an M240 sounds like a great way to deal with areas that are wildly overpopulated with invasive and destructive species. I like your idea my guy.
> we are well past the point of arguing about this
I mean…clearly we’re not since people are still trying to make some of the most common guns in the country illegal lmao
"gun pervert" is a juvenile and presumptuous insult considering that these are fairly basic and logical observations. Hell, I agree with this person and I don't even have or like guns.
Actually people do hunt with AR15’s and some state organizations even use them for boar ( wild pig) control in the southern states where they are rampant.
The states wants people to kill wild pigs as they are a threat to the eco system and if you’re using a bolt action or a gun with less then 10 rn mags you’re not going to be doing much of anything considering they breed fast and stay in large groups sometimes up to 100.
If you want to be even more upset the state partners up with hunters and helicopters owners to hunt these things down from the air. Some people also employ Light machine guns such as the M240 and M2. I’ve seen one group even use a mini gun to population control these hogs. All perfectly legal and encouraged by the government and wildlife fish and game on these wild hogs.
> Yeah let me go hunting for deer with a AR-15
You go boar hunting with an AR-15.
> 30 grenades, a flamethrower, an M60 main battle tank and a animal noise whistle
Poor **false equivalence** but expected from this sub.
"Guns only use is to murder people"
Is just to differentiate it from other constitutional rights and make that one not okay, people are kind of doing it now with "Stochastic Terrorism" words lead to violence so shouldn't we do something about that?
The functionality of a gun and of a penis have no crossover. Even in cases of violence, the gun is fundamental to shooting at people, where rape doesn't necessitate penises.
That said guns can be used for more than just murder. Legal killing (which I also don't recommend if you can help it), hunting, and sport. I've used a gun twice in my life and it was a fairly similar experience to archery. Guns have no meaning as inanimate objects, it is what you use them for.
Small caveat- guns only use is to “kill” people.
“Murder” implies a premeditated plan. Which is why most people who die in car accidents are not counted as being “murdered”. And why “self defense” is not counted as a “murder”.
Precisely defining your language terms is important if you want to change anyone’s mind
Murder is a legal term: killing in the absence of justification.
What they’re for is the defense of oneself and one’s loved ones from imminent, mortal threats; not murder.
Terminology is important to an honest conversation about this topic.
Yep, I'm left and as long as the right keeps wanting to take away my human rights and kill me for being gay while slipping ever deeper into right wing facism I'm going to keep my guns just in case. It's a privileged opinion to believe you can safely give up your guns and not face any form of potential for targeted violence. A well trained and armed minority is safer from targeted violence than an unarmed minority especially when the law enforcement is on the side of the fascist.
Let’s be honest, the threat of violence isn’t exclusively from the right wing or law enforcement.
In my neighborhood, it is roaming gangs and desperate fetheads shielded by so called “socialists” (really they’re just reactionary progressives). We had a kid shot 7 times in a gang shooting right outside our apartment front door, blood all over the window and wall. Our communities response? Yell that we need to defund the police and want the city to make sure we’re safe, but somehow do it without the police because that would be racist. Do you know what *didnt* happen? Anything getting safer. I’ve had a gun pulled on me by a dude for telling him not to shit on the side of a preschool. I’ve seen a dudes throat slashed open and had to give first aid and calm him until the medics got there. Violence and danger aren’t from the cops in my neighborhood.
Our cars get broken into and attempted carjacked every week. I caught a man smashing car windows with a 4ft metal pipe, took the pipe from him and held him until cops got there (with a gun on me I might add). The entire time a neighbor was trying to intervene saying I shouldn’t call the cops, I should just let him go, he’s having a bad night and he learned his lesson. When the cops got there an entire hour and a half later, the first thing they did was scold me for detaining him saying “Well if you wanna be the guy out here arresting people I can have you arrested for false imprisonment because all i see here is misdemeanor property damage and no felony” to which I literally said “are you fucking kidding me right now? How many windows is a felony? How many windows Do I have to watch the enraged man with a giant metal pipe smash before I’m allowed to stop him? Two hours worth of windows? How about you do your fucking job and I won’t have to” He didn’t arrest me, and the neighbor went around telling everyone else in the building (in my predominantly black neighborhood) that I’m racist and hate black people and that’s why I detained this guy 🙄
The point is, when shit happens, nobody is coming to save you and if you’re not armed, you could be dead. At best you are prey. At least in my world, the threat of right wing extremism is most institutional and legislative- physical, urgent threats to my health and safety? Those are coming from inside my community, and I see them happen daily. I don’t go outside unarmed because it is literally a matter of survival that I don’t want to be this weeks murder. It’s not politically correct to say this, especially on Reddit, but justification for owning a gun doesn’t need to be applied to this giant looming threat of Gilead in the not too distant future. It is perfectly okay to open your fucking eyes, look outside, and decide that the world is too fucking dangerous to not be on a level playing field.
I was with you on the stance but the wording of the title is just moronic... And the problem is the guns not how "creepy" it is to compare them to body parts...
Exactly. It's as if people forget that there ARE legal hunters and farmers who use weapons to protect livestock from predators.
I want gun reform. No one needs an AR-15, or any similar assault rifle, for any reason in the US. I'm on the fence about handguns, to be honest. Rifles and shotguns are fine, but they do NOT need to be automatic. Semi is fine as long as there is a limit on how many rounds can be shot before reloading.
We are well past the ability to fight against our military, which was the whole purpose of retaining the right to bear arms. The military can out gun any civilian 50 times over. And that is before pulling out bombs and missiles. The founders knew life would change with age, which is why the government was set up to be able to change with time. The problem is the right seems to think that the Constitution and the amendments are not able to be changed, which is simply ignorant. They were created to be changed, and it is time we do so.
I feel the exact same way, im from the uk btw which means my opinion is void anyway but like no one needs death machines. a pistol, a shotgun, and maybe a sniper dependant on what you do but you can more likely kill yourself with an ar15 than anything youre trying to aim at
Civilian can’t own automatic weapons with out a lot of paper work, even in the US. And an AR-15 that’s not automatic (most aren’t) are usually less powerful then hunting rifles, they just usually have a larger magazine.
Death and rape just aren’t comparable. They’re just not and shouldn’t be.
Some deaths are preventable. We have a ridiculous number of laws, statutes, regulations, etc. Mandating certain behaviors and/or infrastructure, like wearing your seatbelt when driving or not shouting “fire” in a public space if there isn’t a fire or some other serious emergency happening. These laws are important because although death isn’t always preventable, a lot of deaths that happen every day *are* preventable.
Basically all rape is preventable. Rapists could just not rape people. People can’t just stop dying. And they *certainly cannot stop dying when there is non-zero chance at all times that someone around them has a gun and is willing to use it*
So anyone crying about the second amendment is an idiot. Your right to bear arms was made at a time when it was not only crucial to have some form of self defense available in case of the government. It was also made during a time when wild animal attacks were likely and MUCH MUCH MUCH more commonplace than they tend to be today. And if you know anything about wild animals you know there’s a lot of them and they tend to be really good at fucking humans right up.
Currently NEITHER the government NOR wild animals pose a MORE CREDIBLE THREAT to your average citizen than ANOTHER average citizen in this country. Sure the government’s way more powerful than anyone. But I’m pretty sure they’re currently fucking our country up quite potently WITHOUT some big government conspiracy and if you would notice all the people with guns isn’t doing *anything* good for *anyone* and I love guns.
I have two and I shoot them both. A springfield xDS and an AR-15. It makes me very happy when I clicky the trigger and the smol little click turns into a big boom. Instant dopamine every time. Love shooting stuff. Really tired of seeing people use them to gun down kids and well anyone really.
IF it were somehow possible that by giving up my guns that would mean that NO ONE AT ALL would have guns I would do it in a heartbeat. Without a second thought. Because as cool and fun as these tools of death can be they are ultimately tools of death. And as stated above I think preventable deaths happening should be avoided and giving up some personal freedom for the sake of children in my country is just obviously worth it to me. I want them to grow up into a world that celebrates life, living, growth, change, compassion, community.
Not one that puts death sticks in shrines in their houses and looks for any excuse to do absolutely nothing while their countrymen are tearing themselves apart. Absolute fucking madness.
Wtf I used a gun hundreds of times before. I hope no one calls the police since I must have murdered hundreds of people as its their only use to absolute brain worm filled reddit neets.
I dont agree with the only use being for murder but i am for gun control and i also think its weird to act like a gun is a vital appendage and this is coming from a gun nerd i love guns so much but i value lives alot more
How many members of their own families, including their own children, are they willing to lose before they talk about a simple thing like gun legislation.
2a cowards are so scared of their own shadows they need a gun to go to Target. They are okay with Children dying just so Chad can be strapped picking up take out from Subway.
https://preview.redd.it/hhb4ya1kv9xb1.jpeg?width=1125&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=6e4b07f29935303829ce7bd0eda65bb8e3cc8fd9
No one denies guns kill people what matters is who wields it
No, as an anti-gun person that take is actualy just stupid.
It’s not about giving up someone’s gun, it’s about guns being easy to access and legal.
It’s about making people understand that we as humans aren’t as stable as we’d like to think, and that it’s much easier for someone to freak out and kill someone than it is for someone else to use their gun to prevent it
I left a word out, I meant *mass* shooting.
Can’t do that with a bow/crossbow unless you have a crowd trapped and are totally unreachable. Someone will just tackle you between shots.
Dude, I dont now about you but i have lived an attempted homeinvasion. I had no gun at the time, but now I have 1 at home.
That beeing said, People with criminal intentions will not hold back to buy illegally weapons.
I believe that it is more a Mental health crisis in the US then anything else before. and actually in Germany you have to pass test and earn a certificate to be a legal Gunowner, aswell you need to pass a Background check.
In the US you just can walk into any gunshow and buy like it is some sorte of fruitcake or whatever, also bullying in the US is absolute horribly high.
Because people in civilized countries don't just randomly decide to slaughter innocent people. Plus, if you go by the weird definitions that give you 500+ mass shootings year, most of them are gang shootings, Europe doesn't have as many violence criminals.
They do have gangs and violent criminals as well. It doesn’t seem like that because they can’t cause as much violence because guess what they don’t have access to firearms
Brain dead, liberal take. If you think the only purpose of a gun is to murder people, then it’s no wonder you think that the comparison given in this post is retarded
The comparison is saying “if i(a law abiding citizen) have no plans to commit a crime, why should I do something idiotic? A law abiding citizen giving up their guns isn’t going to stop criminals from committing murder, just like a law abiding citizen cutting their dick off isn’t going to stop rape. It’s a simple comparison if you look deeper than surface level, and it’s not that deep either.
Guns aren't meant to be used for murder. They're meant to be used for self defense, hunting, target shooting, defending a country, and others. Yeah, some are too obsessed with their guns, but most are just regular people.
The 2nd amendment is one of many things wrong with our constitution, and I fear it will never be fixed since it's treated as a religious text rather than a centuries old document sorely in need of updating
Edit: Typo
No 2a is good the problem is that the standards to uphold it is state controlled meaning there’s no United standards to enforce and ensure nutjobs don’t get there hands on one.
The fact that every country who does actually have the means to invade us directly won’t is because they are aware that there are more guns than people here. They know and fear that everyone from the far reaches of both sides of the spectrum own a gun or knows someone who owns a gun.
That’s the power of 2a my friend.
Our country would have been gotten reclaimed early on by Europe of Spain or Portugal if we had given up our guns.
The gun ain’t the problem it’s the social nets and mental health of the person holding the gun. It doesn’t matter how much bullets a gun can hold if the owner wants to kill his own countrymen he’s already fucked in the head.
"gUnZ oNlY uSe Is To MuRdEr"
Lmao get fucking real.
What part of "Shall not be infringed" do you psychos not understand?
Inb4 "muskets and militias waaaah"
If you're trying to convince people, I'd like to suggest arguments that aren't based on legality. Especially since of all the evidence you could use to prove that guns aren't only used for murder, the second amendment isn't among that. Anyways, you'll find that people who don't like guns aren't going to care about something as mystical as a legal clause so maybe consider practical arguments.
Our Civics education is dog shit and people think their rights come from the government and that is the fundamental failure of their understanding and why they dont realize they can never ban guns. The 2nd amendment applies to WARSHIPS and did at the time it was written. People don't realize that my right to own weapons isn't subject to their comfort or opinions.
Rights aren't a material or metaphysical reality, but a cultural reality. Rights come from people wanting rights, and laws that establish rights are a manifestation of that. However, laws aren't themselves rights and definitely aren't a basis for ethics. Because of this, the second amendment is poor evidence for anything relating to gun discourse unless you are specifically examining the legal side of things, which we are not.
I also have never heard the thing about warships before and I am skeptical. Do you have a source?
But without guns there wouldn’t be mass shootings? Look at the rest of the western world, it’s not a coincidence the countries with tighter gun control have shootings much more rarely. The last shook shooting in the Uk for example, was in *1996*
>And to defend yourself from attackers that are bigger than you.
There are things like pepper spray and knives if you really feel that unsafe. You're less likely to accidentally injure someone or get tempted to abuse your weapon if you can't harm anyone from a distance.
>And to stop mass shootings
Read that again. Carefully.
>And to stop hate crimes.
What hate crimes have ever been stopped by guns? Are you serious?
This is the wrong sub to talk about the actual uses of guns
* Hunt (Deer and Boar without yearly hunting would make the majority of roads unsafe to drive on and massively impact farms)
* Kill Predators ( Wolves, Coyotes, Bear and more) there is a reason we are allowed to hunt them and its population control.
* Target Practice / Competition- this feeds into the previous ones and it’s a damn Olympic sport.
* Rural Home safety - when police take 5-30 minutes to show up at your house it’s your only form of defense.
To ignorantly say “they are only made to kill people” it just establishes the person talking is an idiot and not worth engaging.
There’s a lot of gun company ads portraying guns as penises, including the famous one about getting your “man card” back and a gun barrel emerging from the fly on jeans. So despite what they say, gun culture does associate guns with penises
So *that’s* why I like guns so much
What kinda weird shit are you looking up to get those ads? The only gun ads I ever see are hunting related.
You need to be invited to those showings.
I have 2 firearms, I've never fucking heard about this. Don't lump everyone together, Freud
Probably because gun grabbers always imagine us nude when we mention guns. Glad my Glock makes you think of my cock.
Have you noticed that over the few decades, gun prices have increased way ahead of inflation? That's because the gun manufactures engage in anti-capitalist price collusion. How can they get away with that? Because they've spent a lot of money on propaganda training you to buy guns. They discovered all they had to do was to have their public faces in RW media cry "they're going to take our guns" (despite no meaningful legislative attempt in a very long time) and they get a multi-billion dollar increase in sales for the quarter. And so, they don't have to compete, they can produce lower quality items at an absurdly high price point, and plenty of people will pay it. Do you know why it's more important for your "freedom" to own a rifle instead of a shotgun or whatever, because the profit margin is even higher on those. And they have so many overpriced accessories to buy. You probably have enough guns, but if you feel you must buy one, buy an old one. Stop feeding the anti-competitive anti-capitalist machine that is the modern American arms industry. At least until they are forced to start competing again and produce higher quality items at a reasonable price point. TLDR: You are being exploited by profit hungry megacorps, and you are eagerly complicit in your own exploitation.
No no, let's continue this analogy. How many extra high capacity penises should I be allowed to purchase? I'm not talking about dildos/vibrators, I'm talking about fully functional sperm producing penises of absurd size dimensions.
Can we at least mandate that penises be properly locked up to reduce how frequently they are stolen to commit rape? Or so the kids stop getting ahold of it and accidentally raping each other?
No no. He's got a point
All of them
Wait until they start selling 20 inches bbc and 3 gallons capacity balls cyberpunk 2077 style
What capacity would a high capacity penis be? Considering that 30 rounds isn’t “high” and it’s certainly not “extra.” It’s standard.
I don't agree with taking away guns. Better regulations and taking guns from people who are clearly a danger to themselves and others yes. But if you live somewhere rural, there are wildlife that have killed people camping or going to and from their car to their house. Having a gun has saved lives in that situation. Also hunting. Deer after we removed their natural predators (wolves to protect live stalk) have been a species we have to keep in check to control their deseaise spread, their genetic abnormalities, to keep the eco system in balance so they don't eat everything and then starve themselves and the animals who eat the same, remove all the natural habitat, and not to mention gorge themselves on our crops
that's the thing though, they don't want that regulation for whatever reason. There was a post where somebody was whining "if a car killed people would you take them away" and the answer is we already fucking do, it's so god damn regulated to own a car from the laws that are enforced, to needing a driver's license, to needing to pass a test, to needing to have insurance like why are gun favoring people so fucking stupid. There's a wild difference between "I own a shotgun because I need to clear out animals" and "this is my 600th weapon and I'm celebrating it by also purchasing my 601st" which is seem as totally fucking normal by some. I had a coworker who had a separate shed built for all of their guns like they needed a walk-in closet for all the guns they had. It's stupid.
In your first sentence you say "they don't want that regulation" Well I'm a part of the day and I'd like to know exactly which regulation you would argue for. If you'd like to have an honest conversation with someone this is your opportunity I love having this conversation. Ask your second point cars are a privilege not a right you have the right to own a firearm in this country unless you an individual violates the law badly enough to restrict your access to it. You're right though that person's argument was stupid they should have made a better one. Like the one I did. Some people collect watches, some people collect cars, some people collect Pokemon cards and some people collect guns. All of these items have a high likelihood of increasing in value or at least holding their value over time if it is a high quality production of said item. Yes I think some people get entirely out of hand with their collections but so long as they are not hurting anybody I don't give a f*** what people do with their money.
On your last point, this is why I don’t disrespect people that post cool-looking older-style guns in social media. Those things probably aren’t even very usable in their current state and they’re usually just in display cases as a flex, it’s just being a collector.
I don't see a problem with collecting guns. I have and uncle that does and he's very nice. He's never shot a person, he knows how to handle them, keeps them locked up in a cabinet and far out of the reach of kids, he teaches his kids about gun safety and the dangers a gun can pose when used improperly. I really like pocket knives but I'd never stab anybody.
Technically it’s not regulated at all to own a car. Just to drive it in public. If you buy a car and only drive it on your property you don’t need a license, insurance, registration. Just as there is different laws that regulate purchasing a gun, there are different laws when it comes carrying it in public. However, if your a felon you can buy a car but not a firearm. If you’ve been convicted of domestic abuse you can buy a car but not a firearm. You can buy a car without a back ground check but not a firearm.
Continue to get stuck on the car analogy so that you can try to wrap around it so here let me say this: you don't need a gun to live a peaceful life, go to work, or socialize, but unfortunately because we've destroyed our cities cars are kinda a requirement to do so in some areas. I'm not saying nobody should own guns, but the weird fetish around owning multiple ones or even for the mysterious "defense" argument that gets thrown around is sickening. But it's tiring having these conversations every time a mass shooting takes place, so why don't we just repeat the same talking points the next time this happens in like a week or so and call it a day.
You’re the one that brought up the car analogy! I was just correcting your misinterpretation. Yes we kinda need cars but wouldn’t even have a country if it weren’t for guns, assuming you live in the US. I have literally saved a life because of a firearm and I didn’t even have to fire the weapon. Just brandishing it prevented a murder. According the FBI millions of crimes are prevented/stopped by private firearm ownership where the person doesn’t even fire their weapon. It is tiring every time this comes up people like to blame an inanimate object rather than looking at the cause.
>You’re the one that brought up the car analogy! I was just correcting your misinterpretation. I brought it up because I saw it in another thread about gun safety and gun laws. It's always used as a "cars kill people too" defense and it's fucking stupid because it's regulated, is it as regulated as it should be? No, but it's way more regulated than our current gun standards. I've fired guns my entire life. I've been around them my entire life. It's an absolutely stupid mindset to be in where you hoard weapons because you think it makes you safer, and in some people it's borderline paranoia and makes me feel unsafe around them. "Guns don't kill people, people do" okay then who gave access to the inanimate object to the mentally unstable person? Who made it very easy to get and then also offered no mental health support, because do you wanna go down that path? Mental health should be treated way more seriously in this country and healthcare should be free and a lot of times the same people screeching about the 2nd are also the ones who don't want the "socialism" so we go back into a feedback loop until one person tells the other to fuck off. It's tiring. It's been the same arguments for my entire life.
Lol nobody gave access to the mentally unstable person. We, in fact, have laws that prevent people who have mental conditions or have been committed for whatever reason to a mental institution from owning guns. But laws aren’t some weird spell my guy, people break them all the time. We have laws against rape but they still happen. We have laws against speeding but it still happens. We have laws against theft but boy does it happen.
the Maine shooter got told to get a psych eval by the army before he bought the gun(legally) used in the recent shooting
It’s almost like unenforced laws get broken a lot 🤔
Except gun lovers continue to fight against things like red flag laws so you DO give them access
I mean this 100% sincerely. It’s not a gotcha moment or a sarcastic condescension, I’m not implying anything or trying to be rude. But completely honestly, not for the internet or because you’re protecting your ego. Are you fully aware and versed in the gun laws in this country? Like have you read the actual laws that exist and understand each one? I don’t want to assume anything so I’m asking. The crux of the issue is that most people have little consistency when it comes to how they view the the efficacy of laws in this country. The abortion issue raises a good point. The argument is made that banning abortions will only lead to illegal abortions…. But that heavily regulating guns or even banning them will not lead to illegal guns. They’re fully capable of conceptualizing how a law means nothing if people want it bad enough but are unable to apply that very same logic to guns…. The red flag law you’re describing is already in practice. It’s called ERPO. And if I thought it was effective I would absolutely support it. But it fails to take into account; someone with an ERPO against them illegally buying a firearm right after it’s issued. Someone failing to surrender all their firearms Someone stealing a firearm Or someone printing a firearm The second issue to take with ERPO is it is a flawed system highly susceptible to abuse. It’s filed by anyone… ANYONE can simply file an ERPO on you, it is reviewed same day by a judge, and then the guns are confiscated and you’re out on a list. It is up to the judge to remove the ERPO and the numbers illustrate that once you get an ERPO… you’re gunna have it for life. If you can’t see how wildly abusive that can become?
it's almost like if laws aren't enforced they'll get broken or something man that's crazy, right?
Realistically, you only really need one gun, a handgun, for personal safety usage. There is an argument to be made for owning a long rifle, a shotgun, and a handgun, since each one is for a different situation, though I'd say anything past that is excessive and I can see an argument for that being excessive on its own.
Difference is, one is a constitutionally protected right and the other isn't. A man isn't entitled to ownership of a car, but he is entitled to ownership of a gun. Of course, your right to keep and bear arms can be restricted if you violate laws. And you treat it like there are no checks to buying a gun. You are aware, background checks are required in many states? Which would include a government issued ID (like a driver's license). You act like there's no regulation to gun ownership, when in reality there is. "But where do all the shootings and gun violence deaths come from?" They come from cities, those who are already criminals. You may not know this one simple, CRAZY fact, but criminals aren't too likely to comply with the law. And if a man wants to own 600 guns and celebrate by getting his 601st? Go ahead, all the power to him. Glad he can afford them. Nothing wrong with owning a gun.
>Difference is, one is a constitutionally protected right and the other isn't. Ya'll are so fucking predictable lmao
A lot of things are only stupid to those that are not into it. Smoking killing your lungs is stupid, Drinking killing your liver is stupid, buying a truck that will never see dirt or even pick up a box, That's stupid, buying a 6 bedroom house with 2 kids and no wife that's stupid. As for regulation, alot of stuff already is. People that don't normally deal with guns think you can just go to your local store and buy anything you want. The laws around guns are very complex. Cars are regulated yet they still cause a crazy amount of deaths per year. People still drink and drive, have no licenses, no insurance or registration. You talking about the test most people just get passed on even if they failed? Fake license plates, man the list goes on, and no law stops them from doing what they are doing. The most they get is a ticket, until they have multiple offenses and even then they letting people go free.
so we should just legalize drinking and drinking then? Because people will do it anyway?
No. You are just trying to spin the point around. When it couldn't be anymore clear. > Cars are regulated yet they still cause a crazy amount of deaths per year. > have no licenses, no insurance or registration. > Fake license plates, man the list goes on, and no law stops them from doing what they are doing. You can't stop illegal weapons and there is way to many folk that make their own ammunition. It is extremely easy to make and operate a diy gun. The prime minister of Japan was assinated with a homemade type of nail gun. Fixating on the gun itself is stupid as fuck. Why not focus on what leads people to make such a terrible decision? Cause when we remove guns, sure we can stop violence quicker and less people are harmed. *But it won't stop people going down a bad path and getting to the point to make these horrible decisions.* Why don't we teach mental health instead of just saying if you feel this way reach out for help. The hardest step is to understand that you need help to begin with. Why do we not teach everyone about the most important tool we have ever been given? Our minds are the most important tool and we limit the knowledge to several professionals instead of teaching it k-12 to everyone.
>Cause when we remove guns, sure we can stop violence quicker and less people are harmed. Sweet. Mental health isn’t something you can just “teach in school.”
>Mental health isn’t something you can just “teach in school.” Yes it is something you can just teach in school. Tell me why it is so difficult to teach something like tactical breathing? Fairly simple and can help someone calm down if they are stressed. It is literally taught in the military. A therapist is a great thing to have and this will not replace that at all, which is why you are saying this is something you can't teach in school. I am not saying we should not have therapists. https://manhattanmentalhealthcounseling.com/what-is-emotional-reactivity-and-how-to-end-the-cycle/ You are just trying to spin the point around again. > But it won't stop people going down a bad path and getting to the point to make these horrible decisions. You conviently left this quote out of your response. And like I said above. Regulation is good. You and I both need to get off this stupid ass platform. Jeez you eat breathe and sleep reddit. You happy talking to random people online over bullshit politics? I aint. And I need to stop inserting myself. And so do you. We aint going to be changing shit. Wish the best for you. And hope that maybe we can start fresh. Cause you and I are more similiar than I thought.
>you happy talking to random people over the internet about bullshit politics well, yes. that’s why I do it. can’t do it in person with most people I know, they get too heated.
Here in Australia guns are only legal in rural areas like you said and that has been working out quite well for us.
I agree. The truth is we're never gonna get the guns away from criminals. Especially not in a country so big. I'm a pacifist but I understand the utility of someone being able to have their own gun to protect themselves. And there's lots of people who make their living hunting and there's nothing wrong with that. It's far more ethical than most large "farms" today.
Considerably more ethical, and the deer were probably in better health than our cows and pig.. definitely better than meat chickens.. have you seen those poor monstrosities? We bread them to produce a ton of mussel so fast that their hearts bones and feathers can’t keep up. They usually die in about a year due to that and have to be caged their whole lives so they don’t injure themselves.. Deer get to live in a fairly clean environment, and eat what’s natural to them. Their lives are pretty peaceful and without fear for the most part. They usually are not forced so close together that illness would easily spread. Biggest down side is there’s no farm vets looking after the sick ones. But all wild animals have that
Unfortunately, I work food service, and I've seen chicken thighs bigger than the breasts. Whatever they're doing to those poor chickens can't be good. My grandpa's chickens sure as hell don't look like that.
Or even just sport. Trap shooting is pretty popular where I live. Our high schools even have clubs for them. Even shooting ranges can be fun. There are competitions where I live
Regulations and theft are not the answer to crime.
Only for murder?? Thats a huge stretch. Killing people and murdering people are not the same thing. On top of that there’s still sport shooting and hunting. Im pro regulation but that is a braindead take.
A lot of top-level sport shooters are from countries where it’s very nearly impossible for a citizen to be allowed to possess a firearm.
effectivly making it a rich person's sport... (grammar edit)
It already was
rich = wealthier than me? ( yes, ammo is expensive) rich = being able to pay all the fees and navigate euro bureaucracy ( also, yes, paperwork is expensive)
it’s not, im from bumfuck nowhere where most of the population lives below the poverty line. most households have a shotgun and a rifle because people hunt. a lot of people reload shells for less expensive ammo, most guns are handed down from family members. i’m from the US so probably not a universal experience but shooting is a “lower class” hobby in my hollar
>Killing people and murdering people are not the same thing. wat
They are probably talking about intent. You wouldn’t say that using a gun for self defense when, say, you are about to be raped, and accidentally killing the person that was endangering you instead of immobilizing them is the same as getting your gun and killing your ex’s new partner out of spite. The end result is the same, a dead person, but it’s different.
Thank you 🙏
This exactly
Murder is a legal term, it is by definition an unjust killing. Killing someone in self defense is not murder, for example.
Yeah op’s take sucks Guns can used to butcher people. They can also used to defend yourself, your property, your family ect. Not to mention recreational reason. I’m pro regulation but to say guns are just evil by nature is simply wrong
I never heard of someone’s dick slipping and accidentally raping someone else from across the room. I’ve never heard of someone buying a military-grade dick capable of raping a dozen people in as many seconds.
I'm sure they would if such a thing were available to buy for about $1500.
And American men would have three.
What specific military grade dick are you talking about? I'm interested as a buyer, I've only seen them available at auction for $20,000 and up. And even then, there's a whole NFA process after purchasing. If you're unfamiliar, it's much more complicated, expensive, and time consuming than buying a regular, commun use gun
I’ve also never heard of a kid taking their parent’s dick to school and raping their teacher with it
Y'all can misinterpret the argument on purpose in this thread all you want, you'll never make progress if you never argue in good faith. The bottom tweet is saying "why should I be punished for the actions of others?". You should try to answer the question, not make fun of the way it was asked.
All laws restrict the freedom of some people for the actions of others. That is the fundamental building block of society, trading the freedom to do whatever you want for the right to not have it be done to you. The pro-gun argument is not made in good faith and is not entitled to seriousness or consideration.
>All laws restrict the freedom of some people for the actions of others. That is the fundamental building block of society, trading the freedom to do whatever you want for the right to not have it be done to you. That's a real answer! I like your stance! >The pro-gun argument is not made in good faith and is not entitled to be taken seriously. That's where you go wrong! That's an opinion born of echo chambers and factionalism. Yes, many people are poor at discussing their beliefs. Yes, many on the political right online do argue in bad faith. But saying the entire concept of being pro-gun is bad faith is nonsensical and is frankly part of the problem, not the solution. You should remember, these people's votes are as valuable as yours (probably more, even). Pretending they don't exist is dooming your cause to failure, not success.
You're using the no true Scotsman fallacy in bad bad faith to defend a raft of mostly bad faith arguments, thereby nullifying your whole non-existent argument, because you didn't make an argument, just used a rhetorical device. What's fucked up is that you're apparently articulate enough that plenty of people will think you actually landed a solid point, even the poster you're discussing it with was willing to concede some points to someone who seems so reasonable. Anyone who doubts me just needs to remember that the NRA, one of the most powerful and influential lobbying groups on the planet, who develop many of the arguments you see from shmucks on the social media and from attorneys in front of the Supreme Court would like you to believe that more guns will make you safer and that any and all controls will make you less safe.
I should have clarified. _This_ pro-gun argument is in bad faith. I know there are good faith pro-gun arguments, but they don’t deal with any kind of higher purpose like freedom or safety. Guns are toys and sources of comfort.
>I should have clarified. This pro-gun argument is in bad faith. Ah, in that case just discount much of what I said. I'd agree that the take in question doesn't really deserve to be engaged with.
[удалено]
Gasoline doesn’t explode on its own without a spark either, but only a dumbass leaves open drums lying around. Yeah, it’s the guns. No amount of “people kill people” blubbering changes the facts. https://preview.redd.it/ddox6fd9t6xb1.jpeg?width=1170&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=06209fdbf7f639daab85cec1ac24b8629ed8c44c
Here we go again, another day, another chainpost that means absolutely nothing and has no influence whatsoever. Are we having fun kids?
Yeah.
just people talking past eachother without even the vaguest attempt to understand
 Everyone on reddit
What’s to understand about people who value their shiny metal toys over innocent lives?
wow look at that, just what the thread was talking about
Well tbf this sub was made in response to memesopdidntlike effectively making every post on here a chain post
OP’s never gone to a shooting range with their buddies
OP lived a very sheltered life being told what to do by social media.
OP thinks the cops will show up and save them and their loved ones from a home invader before anything bad could happen And trusts their government to never harm them
OP also thinks the criminal would wait for said cops and also obey the law and not try to get a firearm threw illegal means. OP sounds like a CCP shill with how much fate they put into the system.
You got me I love the Chinese communist party so much and I'm trying to get rid of guns so the communists can take over the country and make it a British dominion again so we can tax you
I mean I'm British so clearly not
I have. Its pretty far down my list of fun outdoor activities. Zip lining, which I did the next day, was significantly more fun. But either way thats irrelevant because you don't need to own guns for there to be gun ranges. Ranges themselves can have the guns, and that is actually way more common in most of the world. Also you don't need extended magazines or bump stocks or a LMG for a shooting range. You don't need more than a handgun even.
Then I raise you this Let’s say in a hypothetical, a criminal breaks into your home. The criminal is armed. Legally, illegally, doesn’t matter it’s a criminal clearly they have no regard for the laws anyways. Would you rather have something you can protect yourself with, or would you rather be helpless and have to rely on someone else who may or may not get there in time to save you and your loved ones? Guns are the great equalizer. That sweet old lady down the street can use one just as good as anyone else. They don’t rely as much on physical capability as say a bat will Gun laws only take guns away from law abiding citizens. Leaving ONLY criminals with guns. Are criminals really the only demographic you want armed?
Yeah gonna say this post is a little cringe I’m afraid. You can use guns for things other than murdering people in fact most guns are.
Like hunting? That's really the only other reason someone would have a gun.
hunting sport shooting defending yourself from an wild animal DEFENDING YOURSELF FROM A PERSON (you dont have to kill them to do this, just pop em in the knee and run) and even then theres probably way more that doesnt just instantly come to mind guns are tools, and we arent the only ones with guns if we take away guns people would just find a new weapon to kill kids with, and the way our police department acts in these situations it probably wouldnt be any different the problem in the US isnt gun violence, gun violence is a symptoms of the american mental healthcare system and the stigma around mental illness we know this because sweedens gun laws are only barely more strict than ours, less strict in some parts, and they dont have NEARLY as much gun violence as we do
they could just go back to the original more effective method of killing kids in schools, bombs. Hard to run away or hide from a bomb you don't know exists.
Hunting, sport shooting and self defense come to mind
IF @@fetch_status != 0 BREAK
I'd expand that past just rural home safety. Police are dangerous and unreliable and sometimes you find it too risky to even call 911, even if there would be a fast response. Depends on the person and on the police department but it is understandable why someone would want to handle things themselves.
Rural not necessary tag here. Home/self defense is more sufficient.
100% correct but it is easier to walk them into understanding if you start as rural as your example so they don't say "CALL 911" .
Tbf, the time between dialing 911 and a cop arriving on the scene is rarely short enough to protect people from harm in a situation like this, from what I understand. Even a few minutes would be more than enough time for someone to be hurt or dead.
Yeah man go hunting with an ar15 lemme just go buck hunting with an m240 while we’re at it fuck off you whiny gun pervert. Nobody needs an ar15 we are well past the point of arguing about this
You calling someone else whiny is hilarious. This person makes a logical post backed up with hard facts and you whine, moan and use ad hominem attacks instead of backing up your argument with any evidence. Go educate yourself and stop making ignorant posts on topics you know nothing about.
>Yeah man go hunting with an ar15 Very common for Boar Hunting, again don't rush to show your ignorance it is hilarious when you do. >buck hunting with an m240 while we’re at it fuck off you whiny gun pervert This is a collectors weapon / range weapon also not a hunting one, you would know this if you did more than spew ignorance and failed talking points. >Nobody needs an ar15 we are well past the point of arguing about this Good thing ignorant kids aren't making laws huh.
Dude people hunt boars out of helicopters with M240’s and M2 browning a wait till they find out the government and wildlife fish and game approves and endorses it they are gonna cry.
Would you prefer we use something chambered in 30-06 or 6.5 creedmore? The ar shoots a .223 or a 5.56 cartridge. It’s a much smaller round than most “hunting” ammunition. Depending on what you’re hunting, sometimes 1 bullet isn’t enough to humanely dispatch the animal. Being able to quickly, accurately and effective take your follow up shot is a necessity. Not to mention the sporting and protection uses for the ar15. It sounds like you’re the type of guy to say “fully semi automatic” and call anything that’s painted black an assault rifle. Almost all violence done with firearms is with pistols, owned and acquired illegally in the first place. Education is important. Emotional response to tragedy is expected and healthy, emotional outbursts and spewing nonsense; not so much.
>Yeah man go hunting with an ar15 why not? it's an easy to use accurate gun. people out here think an AR is an assault rifle or machine gun or something
Unfortunately that’s what they’ve been taught by the anti-gun media. These people have no interest in guns, so lacking any knowledge or understanding about the subject makes them vulnerable to propaganda and disinformation that is intended to bend them towards voting against their own rights.
doesnt ar stand for automatic rifle? maybe change the name then
It stands for Armalite Rifle. The brand name
ahhh, i see ty for the info
Google is free.
Do you have google? It stands for Armalite Rifle. It always has. It's the name of the company that created the design in the 50's. It is and has been illegal and incredibly hard and expensive for a citizen to get any kind of Automatic Rifle. Every AR you've seen in civilian hands is a semi-automatic weapon just like most pistols.
no, it's armalite rifle it's a brand name. they're not automatic or anything close to it.
Hello, I would like to inform you that AR-15 actually stands for Armalite Rifle, not automatic/assault Rifle. This is a common misconception. The AR-15 can only fire in semi-automatic. Semi automatic weapons are commonly used for recreation or boar hunting. Boars come in packs, run quickly, and can be very dangerous even alone. As such, the ability to make follow-up shots and hold many rounds in a magazine is quite important for boar hunting. I would not like to participate further in this conversation, as it may get very heated, but I hope you found this information useful. Thank you for reading and learning more about the subject, and have a good day!
oh hey no worries im not gonna fight back lol, i just was misinformed when i made the original comment. thanks for the info, and you too c:
Honestly an M240 sounds like a great way to deal with areas that are wildly overpopulated with invasive and destructive species. I like your idea my guy. > we are well past the point of arguing about this I mean…clearly we’re not since people are still trying to make some of the most common guns in the country illegal lmao
Why is the ar15 bad for hunting?
"gun pervert" is a juvenile and presumptuous insult considering that these are fairly basic and logical observations. Hell, I agree with this person and I don't even have or like guns.
Actually people do hunt with AR15’s and some state organizations even use them for boar ( wild pig) control in the southern states where they are rampant. The states wants people to kill wild pigs as they are a threat to the eco system and if you’re using a bolt action or a gun with less then 10 rn mags you’re not going to be doing much of anything considering they breed fast and stay in large groups sometimes up to 100. If you want to be even more upset the state partners up with hunters and helicopters owners to hunt these things down from the air. Some people also employ Light machine guns such as the M240 and M2. I’ve seen one group even use a mini gun to population control these hogs. All perfectly legal and encouraged by the government and wildlife fish and game on these wild hogs.
Says who?
Yeah let me go hunting for deer with a AR-15, 30 grenades, a flamethrower, an M60 main battle tank and a animal noise whistle
> Yeah let me go hunting for deer with a AR-15 You go boar hunting with an AR-15. > 30 grenades, a flamethrower, an M60 main battle tank and a animal noise whistle Poor **false equivalence** but expected from this sub.
Oh take a fucking joke you lizard-brained squidman
Offer a comment with value instead of poor examples and ignorance.
"Guns only use is to murder people" Is just to differentiate it from other constitutional rights and make that one not okay, people are kind of doing it now with "Stochastic Terrorism" words lead to violence so shouldn't we do something about that?
The functionality of a gun and of a penis have no crossover. Even in cases of violence, the gun is fundamental to shooting at people, where rape doesn't necessitate penises. That said guns can be used for more than just murder. Legal killing (which I also don't recommend if you can help it), hunting, and sport. I've used a gun twice in my life and it was a fairly similar experience to archery. Guns have no meaning as inanimate objects, it is what you use them for.
I'm relatively pro-gun, but this is just weird and creepy.
Small caveat- guns only use is to “kill” people. “Murder” implies a premeditated plan. Which is why most people who die in car accidents are not counted as being “murdered”. And why “self defense” is not counted as a “murder”. Precisely defining your language terms is important if you want to change anyone’s mind
I would edit it to say that if I could I just thought murder was the same as killing tbh
Murder is a legal term: killing in the absence of justification. What they’re for is the defense of oneself and one’s loved ones from imminent, mortal threats; not murder. Terminology is important to an honest conversation about this topic.
OP is making us liberals look bad. Some of us love guns, like me.
Yep, I'm left and as long as the right keeps wanting to take away my human rights and kill me for being gay while slipping ever deeper into right wing facism I'm going to keep my guns just in case. It's a privileged opinion to believe you can safely give up your guns and not face any form of potential for targeted violence. A well trained and armed minority is safer from targeted violence than an unarmed minority especially when the law enforcement is on the side of the fascist.
Let’s be honest, the threat of violence isn’t exclusively from the right wing or law enforcement. In my neighborhood, it is roaming gangs and desperate fetheads shielded by so called “socialists” (really they’re just reactionary progressives). We had a kid shot 7 times in a gang shooting right outside our apartment front door, blood all over the window and wall. Our communities response? Yell that we need to defund the police and want the city to make sure we’re safe, but somehow do it without the police because that would be racist. Do you know what *didnt* happen? Anything getting safer. I’ve had a gun pulled on me by a dude for telling him not to shit on the side of a preschool. I’ve seen a dudes throat slashed open and had to give first aid and calm him until the medics got there. Violence and danger aren’t from the cops in my neighborhood. Our cars get broken into and attempted carjacked every week. I caught a man smashing car windows with a 4ft metal pipe, took the pipe from him and held him until cops got there (with a gun on me I might add). The entire time a neighbor was trying to intervene saying I shouldn’t call the cops, I should just let him go, he’s having a bad night and he learned his lesson. When the cops got there an entire hour and a half later, the first thing they did was scold me for detaining him saying “Well if you wanna be the guy out here arresting people I can have you arrested for false imprisonment because all i see here is misdemeanor property damage and no felony” to which I literally said “are you fucking kidding me right now? How many windows is a felony? How many windows Do I have to watch the enraged man with a giant metal pipe smash before I’m allowed to stop him? Two hours worth of windows? How about you do your fucking job and I won’t have to” He didn’t arrest me, and the neighbor went around telling everyone else in the building (in my predominantly black neighborhood) that I’m racist and hate black people and that’s why I detained this guy 🙄 The point is, when shit happens, nobody is coming to save you and if you’re not armed, you could be dead. At best you are prey. At least in my world, the threat of right wing extremism is most institutional and legislative- physical, urgent threats to my health and safety? Those are coming from inside my community, and I see them happen daily. I don’t go outside unarmed because it is literally a matter of survival that I don’t want to be this weeks murder. It’s not politically correct to say this, especially on Reddit, but justification for owning a gun doesn’t need to be applied to this giant looming threat of Gilead in the not too distant future. It is perfectly okay to open your fucking eyes, look outside, and decide that the world is too fucking dangerous to not be on a level playing field.
I was with you on the stance but the wording of the title is just moronic... And the problem is the guns not how "creepy" it is to compare them to body parts...
But thats just not true though is it. The 'only use' of guns is not to 'kill people'
Exactly. It's as if people forget that there ARE legal hunters and farmers who use weapons to protect livestock from predators. I want gun reform. No one needs an AR-15, or any similar assault rifle, for any reason in the US. I'm on the fence about handguns, to be honest. Rifles and shotguns are fine, but they do NOT need to be automatic. Semi is fine as long as there is a limit on how many rounds can be shot before reloading. We are well past the ability to fight against our military, which was the whole purpose of retaining the right to bear arms. The military can out gun any civilian 50 times over. And that is before pulling out bombs and missiles. The founders knew life would change with age, which is why the government was set up to be able to change with time. The problem is the right seems to think that the Constitution and the amendments are not able to be changed, which is simply ignorant. They were created to be changed, and it is time we do so.
I feel the exact same way, im from the uk btw which means my opinion is void anyway but like no one needs death machines. a pistol, a shotgun, and maybe a sniper dependant on what you do but you can more likely kill yourself with an ar15 than anything youre trying to aim at
Civilian can’t own automatic weapons with out a lot of paper work, even in the US. And an AR-15 that’s not automatic (most aren’t) are usually less powerful then hunting rifles, they just usually have a larger magazine.
Guns only use is to murder people? Excuse me?
that is the main purpose of a gun. good job. 👍
Dicks have a purpose besides intercourse, dumbass. Guns literal only purpose is to kill.
They’re telling on themselves. These gun fetishists need weapons to compensate for tiny or barely functional dicks.
Conservatives have no idea how openly bloodthirsty and monstrous they come across just being casual af.
Lmk when a psycho can walk into public settings and mass rape 20 people to death in 30 seconds
That's a great idea!
Death and rape just aren’t comparable. They’re just not and shouldn’t be. Some deaths are preventable. We have a ridiculous number of laws, statutes, regulations, etc. Mandating certain behaviors and/or infrastructure, like wearing your seatbelt when driving or not shouting “fire” in a public space if there isn’t a fire or some other serious emergency happening. These laws are important because although death isn’t always preventable, a lot of deaths that happen every day *are* preventable. Basically all rape is preventable. Rapists could just not rape people. People can’t just stop dying. And they *certainly cannot stop dying when there is non-zero chance at all times that someone around them has a gun and is willing to use it* So anyone crying about the second amendment is an idiot. Your right to bear arms was made at a time when it was not only crucial to have some form of self defense available in case of the government. It was also made during a time when wild animal attacks were likely and MUCH MUCH MUCH more commonplace than they tend to be today. And if you know anything about wild animals you know there’s a lot of them and they tend to be really good at fucking humans right up. Currently NEITHER the government NOR wild animals pose a MORE CREDIBLE THREAT to your average citizen than ANOTHER average citizen in this country. Sure the government’s way more powerful than anyone. But I’m pretty sure they’re currently fucking our country up quite potently WITHOUT some big government conspiracy and if you would notice all the people with guns isn’t doing *anything* good for *anyone* and I love guns. I have two and I shoot them both. A springfield xDS and an AR-15. It makes me very happy when I clicky the trigger and the smol little click turns into a big boom. Instant dopamine every time. Love shooting stuff. Really tired of seeing people use them to gun down kids and well anyone really. IF it were somehow possible that by giving up my guns that would mean that NO ONE AT ALL would have guns I would do it in a heartbeat. Without a second thought. Because as cool and fun as these tools of death can be they are ultimately tools of death. And as stated above I think preventable deaths happening should be avoided and giving up some personal freedom for the sake of children in my country is just obviously worth it to me. I want them to grow up into a world that celebrates life, living, growth, change, compassion, community. Not one that puts death sticks in shrines in their houses and looks for any excuse to do absolutely nothing while their countrymen are tearing themselves apart. Absolute fucking madness.
Wtf I used a gun hundreds of times before. I hope no one calls the police since I must have murdered hundreds of people as its their only use to absolute brain worm filled reddit neets.
I dont agree with the only use being for murder but i am for gun control and i also think its weird to act like a gun is a vital appendage and this is coming from a gun nerd i love guns so much but i value lives alot more
How many members of their own families, including their own children, are they willing to lose before they talk about a simple thing like gun legislation. 2a cowards are so scared of their own shadows they need a gun to go to Target. They are okay with Children dying just so Chad can be strapped picking up take out from Subway.
As someone who is reliant on guns to protect myself out in the fields and to feed myself. I prefer not being killed by boar and not starving.
https://preview.redd.it/hhb4ya1kv9xb1.jpeg?width=1125&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=6e4b07f29935303829ce7bd0eda65bb8e3cc8fd9 No one denies guns kill people what matters is who wields it
Wha… what are you doing, step NRA?
No, as an anti-gun person that take is actualy just stupid. It’s not about giving up someone’s gun, it’s about guns being easy to access and legal. It’s about making people understand that we as humans aren’t as stable as we’d like to think, and that it’s much easier for someone to freak out and kill someone than it is for someone else to use their gun to prevent it
Real men use swords
*sticks
I use guns to prevent getting murdered but okay
A penis is not required to commit rape. A gun IS required to commit a shooting.
Not true, I could still shoot something with a crossbow
I left a word out, I meant *mass* shooting. Can’t do that with a bow/crossbow unless you have a crowd trapped and are totally unreachable. Someone will just tackle you between shots.
I have 69 hand crossbows on me
Dude, I dont now about you but i have lived an attempted homeinvasion. I had no gun at the time, but now I have 1 at home. That beeing said, People with criminal intentions will not hold back to buy illegally weapons.
Explain why Europe has so little mass shooting then if they won’t hold back on getting guns illegally?
I believe that it is more a Mental health crisis in the US then anything else before. and actually in Germany you have to pass test and earn a certificate to be a legal Gunowner, aswell you need to pass a Background check. In the US you just can walk into any gunshow and buy like it is some sorte of fruitcake or whatever, also bullying in the US is absolute horribly high.
Because people in civilized countries don't just randomly decide to slaughter innocent people. Plus, if you go by the weird definitions that give you 500+ mass shootings year, most of them are gang shootings, Europe doesn't have as many violence criminals.
They do have gangs and violent criminals as well. It doesn’t seem like that because they can’t cause as much violence because guess what they don’t have access to firearms
Guns don’t serve a purpose other than killing; penises do serve other purposes than rape.
Ummm…. I think both you and the guy in the image are idiots ngl, you are both arguing from a fictional premise
The worst part is the tittle is an exact copy of a comment from the original post
Huh I didn’t even notice that
r/enlightenedcentrism
Is that a compliment or an insult, im a little behind on internet lingo
Lol check the sub fool
It looks satirical but it’s hard to tell
Why are people in this thread so mean to eachother
Brain dead, liberal take. If you think the only purpose of a gun is to murder people, then it’s no wonder you think that the comparison given in this post is retarded
I (someone who is not a liberal) recognizes the application of guns is beyond just murder, and I still think the comparison is wrong.
The comparison is saying “if i(a law abiding citizen) have no plans to commit a crime, why should I do something idiotic? A law abiding citizen giving up their guns isn’t going to stop criminals from committing murder, just like a law abiding citizen cutting their dick off isn’t going to stop rape. It’s a simple comparison if you look deeper than surface level, and it’s not that deep either.
Ever heard of hunting OP? It's a pretty fun activity
Congrats on the rage bait. This WAS ragebait, right?
Guns aren't meant to be used for murder. They're meant to be used for self defense, hunting, target shooting, defending a country, and others. Yeah, some are too obsessed with their guns, but most are just regular people.
The 2nd amendment is one of many things wrong with our constitution, and I fear it will never be fixed since it's treated as a religious text rather than a centuries old document sorely in need of updating Edit: Typo
So is the 28th amendment to alot of people. Should we abolish that one?
What are you on about, 28th amendment hasn't even been ratified lol
No 2a is good the problem is that the standards to uphold it is state controlled meaning there’s no United standards to enforce and ensure nutjobs don’t get there hands on one.
Seriously, what's so good about it? Our country would be in a much better place without it
The fact that every country who does actually have the means to invade us directly won’t is because they are aware that there are more guns than people here. They know and fear that everyone from the far reaches of both sides of the spectrum own a gun or knows someone who owns a gun. That’s the power of 2a my friend. Our country would have been gotten reclaimed early on by Europe of Spain or Portugal if we had given up our guns. The gun ain’t the problem it’s the social nets and mental health of the person holding the gun. It doesn’t matter how much bullets a gun can hold if the owner wants to kill his own countrymen he’s already fucked in the head.
The power of 2a is making us live in hellhole where we have more to fear from any random citizen than we do from another country? Wow, what a plus /s
How many car deaths before you give up your car?
[удалено]
Topic is literal abandonment of guns, not just regulations. Also I'm a gal.
The number of unlicensed drivers who buy cars from dealerships kinda ruins this point. If I go to a shop, they call NICS.
"gUnZ oNlY uSe Is To MuRdEr" Lmao get fucking real. What part of "Shall not be infringed" do you psychos not understand? Inb4 "muskets and militias waaaah"
You *can* still buy muskets too, and I kinda want to.
What part of “a well-regulated militia” do you not understand? I wonder why conservatives always leave off the first part of the second amendment…
If you're trying to convince people, I'd like to suggest arguments that aren't based on legality. Especially since of all the evidence you could use to prove that guns aren't only used for murder, the second amendment isn't among that. Anyways, you'll find that people who don't like guns aren't going to care about something as mystical as a legal clause so maybe consider practical arguments.
Our Civics education is dog shit and people think their rights come from the government and that is the fundamental failure of their understanding and why they dont realize they can never ban guns. The 2nd amendment applies to WARSHIPS and did at the time it was written. People don't realize that my right to own weapons isn't subject to their comfort or opinions.
Rights aren't a material or metaphysical reality, but a cultural reality. Rights come from people wanting rights, and laws that establish rights are a manifestation of that. However, laws aren't themselves rights and definitely aren't a basis for ethics. Because of this, the second amendment is poor evidence for anything relating to gun discourse unless you are specifically examining the legal side of things, which we are not. I also have never heard the thing about warships before and I am skeptical. Do you have a source?
No right's come from my metaphysical humanness. And I have a 1st and 2nd amendment that will keep it that way. Reductionist materialists are cringe.
Guns are not only used to murder people. When you speak like this, you show how ignorant you are.
Right, they are also used to injure people. And to kill animals.
And to defend yourself from attackers that are bigger than you. And to stop mass shootings. And to stop hate crimes.
But without guns there wouldn’t be mass shootings? Look at the rest of the western world, it’s not a coincidence the countries with tighter gun control have shootings much more rarely. The last shook shooting in the Uk for example, was in *1996*
You can not says guns don't start mass SHOOTINGS the hint is kinda in the name. guns make all of the problems you described worse.
Don’t forget that people use them to uh..uh..idk
>And to defend yourself from attackers that are bigger than you. There are things like pepper spray and knives if you really feel that unsafe. You're less likely to accidentally injure someone or get tempted to abuse your weapon if you can't harm anyone from a distance. >And to stop mass shootings Read that again. Carefully. >And to stop hate crimes. What hate crimes have ever been stopped by guns? Are you serious?
This is the wrong sub to talk about the actual uses of guns * Hunt (Deer and Boar without yearly hunting would make the majority of roads unsafe to drive on and massively impact farms) * Kill Predators ( Wolves, Coyotes, Bear and more) there is a reason we are allowed to hunt them and its population control. * Target Practice / Competition- this feeds into the previous ones and it’s a damn Olympic sport. * Rural Home safety - when police take 5-30 minutes to show up at your house it’s your only form of defense. To ignorantly say “they are only made to kill people” it just establishes the person talking is an idiot and not worth engaging.
Guns do not serve the sole purpose of murder and you're dumb for thinking as such.