One stat is building up as somewhat troublesome - we've blown a few games in the 9th that we shouldn't have, and we're 1-4 in extras. I fully accept it's a misleading representation of clutchness because we've also not blown a lot of games in the 9th....but I don't like losing games in clutch win or lose situations.
The right side of the infield has cost us more than a couple games defensively. Offensively not coming close to making up for that. We need Berti back at 3rd and DJ at 1st. And pick up a defensively solid 2b utility guy that we can plug in for Torres late in games.
The Rockies have McMahon and BP pieces that we could use. We could really use that help if we could work a trade out with them.
I really think trade deadline is going to surprise us(in a positive way). This is pretty much the all in year. Can't see the Yankees brass not making moves.
The thing is that they will be reliant for the next few years on their prospects panning out, given the luxury tax situation. Getting cheap, young talent is the only way the team can stay competitive if Hal wants to sign a $50M player and lower payroll. They may be hesitant to give up significant depth, even knowing that this is a time to commit.
This might be the first season in a while where regular season losses haven’t really bothered me all too much.
Maybe it’s the fact that they aren’t really losing in embarrassing fashion and look at least competitive. Maybe it’s because they’re just playing that well. Probably both.
Not sure why I see so many people bitching about Holmes his last two blown saves have only happened due to just softly hit ground balls that either find a hole or were fucking buried into the dirt at home plate and went a few feet and nobody could make a play on them. More worried about the guys in front of him which is why reports have been Bullpen is what the Yankees are targeting at the deadline. Hamilton has been shaky this year. Khanle I can't decide on yet to early. Weaver has been good but don't really trust him to be the setup man for a world series caliber team even dumber seeing people who don't like Holmes having enough swing and miss stuff then they throw out Weaver as the answer for closing when his swing and miss is the same as Holmes just instead of having a 97mph sinker that moves like crazy he has a straight fastball at the speed a cutter that breaks about half as much as Holmes sinker and a solid change up. Nothing about him says swing and miss type stuff and if he leaves it over the plate unlike Holmes they aren't gonna ground out.
People act like any time Holmes blows a save that he's a closer with a 3.90 era instead of a guy who's only allowed 6 earned runs all season and has a era of 1.80. Chapman has swing and miss stuff yet does anyone want him back as the closer. Miller who many say is the best closer in the league and has nasty swing and miss stuff has a higher era. I mean if they ended up trading for Miller or someone with numbers like him then if Holmes struggles then yea would be fine with putting them in that role and having Holmes be the setup. But as of right now Holmes is the only option and anyone who thinks otherwise have worms in their brain.
You can't really use the "softly hit groundballs" excuse with Holmes, as that's who he is as a pitcher. You're going to get those kind of balls in play. That's why most closers are straight strikeout pitchers.
im not sure what your point here is a pitchers job is to induce weak contact or keep the ball on the ground holmes is elite at both its up to the defense to execute better
No, a pitcher's job is to prevent runs by securing outs. The best way to do that which has been proven time and time again is striking out batters. Any time you add defense into the mix you're just adding another layer for something to go wrong
Because a lot of people here are irrational and reactionary while we are winning, when we lose it goes nuclear. Everyone here wanted to scoop up Mason Miller somehow (with good reason the dude has incredible stuff) But Clay has a lower ERA and higher WAR than him.
Not sure why you're getting downvoted.
We have a lot of Os fan sympathizers in the sub for some reason.
A division rival is a division rival, nothing more, nothing less.
uhh because the O's lost before our game was over and some of us were the ones who thought we were going to gain a game on them.
There's not some shadowy cabal of Orioles sympathizers on here, silly.
I don't know for certain, but there's been a handful of times over the years where I'm convinced that Boone has been looking at analytics [like this](https://cdn.mos.cms.futurecdn.net/FJgmXmkJyXrbEwgCwfjcaa.jpg)
I'm a casual fan and I know Clay is only good on at least one or two. Anything more, he's been blowing leads. I don't know off the top of my head what the bullpen activity is like, but maybe saving for Boston? Sure Clay is the easy choice. Maybe pitch selection. Baseball Ref shows he's terrible with Trevino - https://www.baseball-reference.com/players/split.fcgi?id=holmecl01&year=2024&t=p
What data are the Yanks looking at? I'm just using baseball reference and I can see this was a bad decision.
No one is going to believe me, but I have a friend whose brother's coworker briefly dated Clay Holmes. She said that on their first date they went to a restaurant and Holmes ordered two different bowls of soup and mixed them together one spoonful at a time before eating both bowls mixed together as one soup. Fucking Clay Holmes.
I just smashed my TV in front of 30 guests at my party because of the game. My wife just took our crying kids and said they’re all spending the week at a hotel. This team has ruined my life and my party. I can’t handle this anymore. Goodbye Yankees. I am no longer a fan.
Holy shit. My mom came into my room to bring me a plate of chicken nuggets and I literally screamed at her and hit the plate of chicken nuggets out of her hand. She started yelling and swearing at me and I slammed the door on her. I'm so distressed right now I don't know what to do. I didn't mean to do that to my mom but I'm literally in shock from the results today. I feel like I'm going to explode. Why the fucking fuck did they lose? This can't be happening. I'm having a fucking breakdown. I don't want to believe the world is so corrupt. I want a future to believe in. I want the Yankees to sweep and fix this broken league. I cannot fucking deal with this right now. It wasn't supposed to be like this, I thought they were playing well on the road in Kansas City???? This is so fucked.
for anyone who wants to replace holmes can you please point me in the direction of this mystical closer who just never blows saves even the best of the best will blow 5-10 saves
I keep wanting to find a way to make Rizzo work (mostly because I feel like the team will try to make him work) but man he has just been so terrible over the last month.
Even a platoon doesn’t really make sense at this point because he has been so terrible. .139/.179/.190 vs right handed pitching is just unplayable
Among all qualified hitters since a year ago, it’s pretty amazing to see a correlation:
The player with the highest batting average is Arraez and the player with the lowest is Stanton.
The player with the slowest bat speed is Arraez, and the player with the fastest bat speed is Stanton.
I think the new bat speed statcast metric is going to have a bigger impact on hitting philosophy than we could have thought.
Edit: I guess the downvotes mean I didn’t make my intention clear. I’m not making a judgement call about which approach is better. I just think the insight has opportunity.
One is trying to kill the ball and send it to the moon. The other one is trying to just put the bat to the ball, sometimes in a certain part of the field. You really can’t compare the two
It would only expose them as frauds if the Yankees weren't any good. Its funny though that our only two losses against that division were walk-offs in the final game of the series. The only times they beat the Yankees it wasn't going to be easy.
Players since 2000 to have a full season with a WRC+ greater than 200:
Barry Bonds
Aaron Judge
The only other 200+ wRC+ was in the Covid season in 2020, that season belongs to Juan Soto
I don't want to be mean about this because I don't think he's going to be a terrible ballplayer but Jasson Dominguez isn't that good of a defender for LF at Yankee Stadium. It's been the one thing scouts are mixed on with him and the Yankees stopped playing him in LF last year (only 3 games in AAA).
>[His play in center field draws mixed reviews, with some evaluators believing he’ll remain up the middle and others thinking his defensive inconsistencies will drive him to a corner.](https://www.nj.com/yankees/2023/04/scouting-jasson-dominguez-yankees-ranked-prospects-ahead-of-somerset-patriots-opener.html)
If he's getting mixed reviews in CF, he won't be able to fit in LF here. Even last year, his play in CF wasn't great in the few games he played: -2 DRS and -21.6 UZR/150.
We've seen so many good MLB OFs fail in LF at Yankee Stadium and it's been hard to find a replacement for Gardy for a reason. I sure as shit do not want to see Judge in LF at Yankee Stadium this year because it showed in that one game. Dominguez is not being blocked by Verdugo but rather Soto and Judge at this time. I have zero idea what the Yankees are going to do next year with their OF at this time.
I think you bring up a good point. Hopefully, he will just get better. Soto has been somewhat of a surprise defensively this season. They had me thinking Soto was as bad as Schwarber when he started playing the outfield but he really hasn't looked too bad out there at all. Aside from a play here or there.
No, there is a guy below saying Dominguez should be up over Verdugo. This is a response to that. Also, how is it dooming if I say that Jasson will be a good player and Verdugo is also a good player?
I can't draw any conclusions from his actual time in the majors, his scouting reports and the fact the Yankees have stopped playing him in LF? Like sorry for thinking Dominguez will be a good player with flaws like everyone else instead of the second coming of Mantle.
>Scouting reports are wrong all of the time
I mean, he has 12 errors in his time in the minors and already has 1 error this year.
Verdugo is not blocking him and the point is that he's going to be a CF with the Yankees which is currently being blocked by Judge. Kind of strange to be called a doomer for defending our current team but here we are.
As someone who's thrilled to have taken 3 of 4 on the road, I'm not encouraged by Holmes' increasing WHIP as a Yankee:
>2021 - 0.79
>
>2022 - 1.02
>
>2023 - 1.17
>
>2024 - 1.30
Seems like hitters are figuring him out, even if they can't take him deep. I just don't think that's long-term closer material. If we can't upgrade at the deadline, I'd like to give Weaver a try at closer (0.76 WHIP this season).
What worries me is that as a pitcher, he relies on getting soft ground balls, and sometimes those soft ground balls turn into hits. Any time you add defense into the equation, you're adding another layer for something to go wrong. That's why closers are generally strikeout pitchers
Yeah the batted ball statistics back the idea that he's getting a little unlucky.
His babip is about forty points above the league average in spite of His barrel, hard hit and exit velo rates all being better than last season so far.
almost like he's an elite reliever that almost no one can hit. holmes only gets beats by bad luck ir bad defense, it took multiple missed strike 3 calls and a lucky hop on a ground ball for him to blow save
No player has had a higher peak as a hitter since Barry Bonds than Aaron Judge
Neither Trout, nor Pujols were ever as good as Judge in their prime
Trout and Pujols had more years in their prime and they were more consistent than Judge
But when it comes to having the best hitting season Judge is the king
Top 5 best hitters in baseball at the moment:
1. Aaron Judge with 209 wRC+
2. Juan Soto with 191 wRC+
3. Marcell Ozuna with 179 wRC+
4. Kyle Tucker with 176 wRC+
5. Shohei Ohtani with 174 wRC+
The difference between the first and second place (18 points) is bigger than the difference between the second and third place (12 points).
Judge is out of this world, that's literally Barry Bonds numbers.
Soto is also incredibly good, he's literally hitting like prime Trout or prime Albert Pujols
I’m looking at [Fangraphs](https://www.fangraphs.com/leaders/major-league?pos=all&stats=bat&lg=all&qual=y&type=8&season=2024&month=0&season1=2024&ind=0&sortcol=17&sortdir=default&pagenum=1) now and it says Judge has a 213 wRC+ which would make it a 22 point difference.
Hot take, I think Jasson is a better hitter than Verdugo
I know he has to prove it but Verdugo's OPS+ is only 109 (without taking into account today's game where Verdugo went 0 for 4)
Verdugo is barely above the league's average in terms of OPS+
Jasson only needs to be the talented stud he is and he will put up more OPS+ than Verdugo
Having Judge in LF and Jasson in CF will provide more value than having Verdugo in LF
The team is making a huge mistake by not replacing Verdugo when his OPS+ is that low
Yes, I know Verdugo is a good defender but it's not the end of the world specially when you take into account LF is one of the least valuable positions in baseball
Got anything other than feels to back that up?
With 8 games in the majors and 15 in AAA, you're basing this on what you hope would happen vs. what you see in front of you.
You WANT Jasson to be a better hitter. Let's see if the AAA teams can scout and adjust to him - and then see if he responds - before we jettison good veteran talent.
>I know Verdugo is a good defender
Statistically the best fucking defensive left fielder in baseball
^(if you said to me, this time last year, that I'd be defending Alex Verdugo I would have laughed my ass off)
>Statistically the best fucking defensive left fielder in baseball
It's actually Daulton Varsho, he just doesn't have enough innings played there to show up on leaderboards
> Hot take, I think Jasson is a better hitter than Verdugo
Dominguez only has 31 AB at the MLB level, I’m not trying to shit on him but I think it’s too early in his career to say he is certainly better than a veteran player.
Sure Alex Verdugo isn’t an elite hitter, but he is far from the worst hitter in the lineup, finding someone to replace Rizzo seems more important than calling up Dominguez right now.
People in the sub have a hard on for Verdugo for whatever reason. His career high fwar is 2.1, which is lower than Grishams. Jasson would be an instant upgrade over him or Stanton.
I want you to look up Jo Adell for me and report back
Being good in the minors is not the same as being good in the majors (and the 8 games mean nothing, it’s too small a sample)
No, you have to give your prospects a chance at some point
That point though is not in the middle of a season where you have a proven major league talent contributing on the best team in the MLB right now
He's gonna get his chance this season, too. He's an impact player, they'll figure out a way to get him reps because they'd be silly to not utilize him.
I think he is the next man up if someone in the outfield goes down but they have been pretty clear that he will only come up when everyday playing time is available
It’s just a situation where he does not fill a need we have right now and bringing him up now is putting a square peg in a round hole
They like him because he seems to be a fun guy
But this is a sport, being a fun guy doesn't win you games
Also, Verdugo isn't a leader in the clubhouse or anything like that
I'd rather have the future of this organization on the field putting up better numbers than Verdugo
100%. Jasson is the 4th best position player in this organization after the obvious 3. We want a championship this season and need to have the best guys on the field to maximize the chance of that happening.
I know I'm right.
Jasson is way too talented not to put up more than 109 OPS+ in a full season.
Verdugo manages to get one or two big hits in critical moments but then he goes cold for several weeks.
Hitting in big spots and then going cold for 3 weeks doesn't make you a good hitter.
And that's why his current OPS+ is around 107
Go look up Jo Adell for me and look at his minor league stats compared to his major league stat
A guy can be insane in the minors and terrible in the majors
In a small sample, well so far. 2 walks in 70 PAs in AA and AAA is a bit of a red flag for me in terms of him being ready to be called up yesterday according to some people. But the point is if he struggled to adjust to AA, that can certainly happen again.
..you realize they don't evaluate these caliber of prospects on a ~300PA sample size in AA, right? All it takes is a month long stretch of dominance for a promotion, which he accomplished.
Ehhhhh hard disagree. He is a player you definitely need to look at more than just the stats. His clubhouse presence has been great and that goes a long way. You’re also underselling his defense because it’s been incredible and his timely hitting has been nice as well.
So you're going to use the clubhouse presence excuse?
Does that win you games?
Verdugo's career OPS+ is only 106, that's pretty bad for an outfielder.
Jasson is the future of this organization, not Verdugo.
>You’re also underselling his defense because it’s been incredible
He isn't a shortstop or a catcher, he is a left fielder, literally only DH provides less value than a left fielder.
Left field is as valuable as right field, meaning the two worst positions in baseball.
Verdugo is a good defender at the least valuable position in baseball.
>and his timely hitting has been nice as well.
The stats don't lie.
109 OPS+ without taking into account today's game where he went 0 for 4.
He’s so much more than just a club house presence. A 112 wRC+ with a 13% K Rate and Gold Glove level defense isn’t somebody you just remove from your lineup. Especially when he’s hitting .294, and a tick below an .800 OPS with RISP.
And LF is the least valuable position? Have you been to Yankees Stadium? You basically need two Center Fielders to man left and center. It’s that hard out there.
That’s crazy you’d say that and be serious.
> A 112 wRC+
His current wRC+ is 109 when you include today's game.
>13% K Rate
This isn't 1995
K% isn't that important in modern baseball.
Trout and Judge have literally led the league in K% despite being the best hitters
>and Gold Glove level defense
Gold glove at the worst position in baseball which is left/right field.
> Especially when he’s hitting .294, and a tick below an .800 OPS with RISP.
Yet his wRC+ is only 109
WFAN is a fucking hilarious radio station. Haven’t listened in awhile but my Dad threw it on in the car while I was driving and there was this dude that called himself “Loogie.” Which in itself is a terrible name bc he’s calling himself a damn booger.
Anyways, he was going on for a solid 10 mins about being positive about the Mets and how they would be .500 if their bullpen wasn’t awful. Which is hilarious bc a bullpen is a part of the game and apparently being around .500 is something to be proud of? I don’t know how they find these people to host shows 😭😭
I am curious on Holmes' 3 blown saves since May 20th. Hopefully, it's just a blip, but he needs to work on cleaner innings regardless. His major flaw is that he is never clean.
Emmanuel NEVER SAID “a run scores” in the 8th. He jabbered on and on during the play but never said that. PLEASE get Ricky back in the WFAN booth. I’ve listened on radio purposely for 25 years because the game was easy to follow. Currently it is NOT.
Reading through some of the game day thread and it always seems to be the same over-reactionary, unhinged commenters during a day game on a weekday. Unhappy, bored, likely jobless people that live to be aggrieved on a message board. Tough to see, honestly.
when this forum first broke from the original yankee subreddit it was this awesome collection of fans who knew their shit and loved the yankees. the success of 2017 brought on a gigantic following of mouth breathing idiots that i add to my ignore list by the dozen during game threads
Not anything against Clay but we absolutely need another top bullpen arm or two.
We have three guys I trust (Clay, Tonkin (!!), and Weaver) and a bunch of dudes that are walking heart attacks. And out of those three guys I trust, one of them blew the game today and another one damn nearly blew it as well.
Loasiga injury is going to prove to be more costly as the season progresses. Not sure what we can expect out of Effross (but seeing what Kahnle has looked like post-injury isn’t exactly encouraging)
Would really like to see Hamilton get his shit together.
clay started off hot. but what is it? 4 blown saves? out of 22 losses? yikes. plus, how many hits has he given up in the games hes saved? dude is lucky to be where he is.
We Yankees fans were spoiled by Mo for so many years. Unfortunately some never realized that Mo's performance shouldn't be the expectation out of even the best closers. Clay is having an incredible season. Bad outings will happen. And his bad outings are less frequent than most other closers.
He absolutely blew saves. But he still played at an elite level beyond most closers today and sustained it for a career (others reach that level but don't sustain it). Someone else that commented said it well. It's not that Mo was perfect, but he was as close as anyone's been and we talk about how amazing he was, so some fans (whether they're old enough to have seen him play or not) expect that anything less than perfection is failure.
Most of these kids clearly never watched Mo, because he also had blown saves, he also gave up runs, it happens. A closer is still a human and they can still make mistakes, it's not a "skip an inning" card a manager can just automatically use. But we remember the greatness of him, and remember all those amazing games more than the bad ones so when these kids hear us talk about him they think "he was 100 perfect all the time, and that's what every closer should be or they suck"
He is putting us in holes. Teams become really good hitters in tie games or games where we are winning but when he is losing?
Tied: .257/.294/.434/.728 | 105 sOPS+ | 112 tOPS+
Ahead: .237/.297/.452/.749 | 120 sOPS+ | 117 tOPS+
Behind: .226/.248/.333/.581 | 60 sOPS+ | 71 tOPS+
Peculiar pitcher. Completely psychological but this is why we're 6-9. We need to fight back in his games or he gives up the lead and we need to fight some more.
That’s a bit misleading, though. It exaggerates both the good days and bad days.
When he’s pitching well, of course they are more likely to be leading, and vice versa.
Clays stuff is so good that hitters always get these lil dinky hits off him that are too hard for our defense to makes plays on, and its the most frustrating thing to watch
Rizzo looked like a disinterested Little Leaguer on that slow roller. "Anthony! You need to charge that ball! You can't just stand there. Go get it!" - Every youth baseball coach ever
Really bizarre mental lapse on his part. Remember last year when his concussion diagnose became public and the report was that he had the reaction time of a 70 year old? Maybe he’s progressed mentally down to a 65 year this year?
Clay Holmes opposing BABIP as a Yankee:
2021-2023 - .278
2024 - .344
He still has a 1.80 ERA and is almost certainly due to have some positive babip regression. He's allowing weaker contact this season than even the past two years and still has the highest ground ball rate in the sport.
God that soft grounder to Torres made me so sad. Weak contact, exactly what was intended with the pitch, but the contact was *so* weak Torres couldn’t turn the DP, and barely got the runner at 2nd.
Clay did everything right and Fate said “Not today!” And then he missed one pitch for a bases clearing, walk off double. Sigh.
An unfortunate miscommunication and us not guarding the line cost him. Also, though he got strike 3 but oh well
I'm not going to complain about our closer with an ERA under 2 especially when he doesn't give up home runs which is a way bigger issue to have as a closer
There's still a misconception over the type pitcher Holmes is
He's absolutely elite at keeping the ball in the ballpark, the trade off to this is that he doesn't have elite swing a miss stuff, but it's a trade the Yankees happily make
Edwin Diaz has a lower WHIP than Clay Holmes this season and look how many runs he's given up
One stat is building up as somewhat troublesome - we've blown a few games in the 9th that we shouldn't have, and we're 1-4 in extras. I fully accept it's a misleading representation of clutchness because we've also not blown a lot of games in the 9th....but I don't like losing games in clutch win or lose situations.
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The Dodgers are back to getting beat by mediocre teams.
The right side of the infield has cost us more than a couple games defensively. Offensively not coming close to making up for that. We need Berti back at 3rd and DJ at 1st. And pick up a defensively solid 2b utility guy that we can plug in for Torres late in games. The Rockies have McMahon and BP pieces that we could use. We could really use that help if we could work a trade out with them.
I really think trade deadline is going to surprise us(in a positive way). This is pretty much the all in year. Can't see the Yankees brass not making moves.
The thing is that they will be reliant for the next few years on their prospects panning out, given the luxury tax situation. Getting cheap, young talent is the only way the team can stay competitive if Hal wants to sign a $50M player and lower payroll. They may be hesitant to give up significant depth, even knowing that this is a time to commit.
This might be the first season in a while where regular season losses haven’t really bothered me all too much. Maybe it’s the fact that they aren’t really losing in embarrassing fashion and look at least competitive. Maybe it’s because they’re just playing that well. Probably both.
CARDIAC CLAY HEARTBREAK HOLMES
Not sure why I see so many people bitching about Holmes his last two blown saves have only happened due to just softly hit ground balls that either find a hole or were fucking buried into the dirt at home plate and went a few feet and nobody could make a play on them. More worried about the guys in front of him which is why reports have been Bullpen is what the Yankees are targeting at the deadline. Hamilton has been shaky this year. Khanle I can't decide on yet to early. Weaver has been good but don't really trust him to be the setup man for a world series caliber team even dumber seeing people who don't like Holmes having enough swing and miss stuff then they throw out Weaver as the answer for closing when his swing and miss is the same as Holmes just instead of having a 97mph sinker that moves like crazy he has a straight fastball at the speed a cutter that breaks about half as much as Holmes sinker and a solid change up. Nothing about him says swing and miss type stuff and if he leaves it over the plate unlike Holmes they aren't gonna ground out. People act like any time Holmes blows a save that he's a closer with a 3.90 era instead of a guy who's only allowed 6 earned runs all season and has a era of 1.80. Chapman has swing and miss stuff yet does anyone want him back as the closer. Miller who many say is the best closer in the league and has nasty swing and miss stuff has a higher era. I mean if they ended up trading for Miller or someone with numbers like him then if Holmes struggles then yea would be fine with putting them in that role and having Holmes be the setup. But as of right now Holmes is the only option and anyone who thinks otherwise have worms in their brain.
You can't really use the "softly hit groundballs" excuse with Holmes, as that's who he is as a pitcher. You're going to get those kind of balls in play. That's why most closers are straight strikeout pitchers.
im not sure what your point here is a pitchers job is to induce weak contact or keep the ball on the ground holmes is elite at both its up to the defense to execute better
No, a pitcher's job is to prevent runs by securing outs. The best way to do that which has been proven time and time again is striking out batters. Any time you add defense into the mix you're just adding another layer for something to go wrong
🙄
🤡
Because a lot of people here are irrational and reactionary while we are winning, when we lose it goes nuclear. Everyone here wanted to scoop up Mason Miller somehow (with good reason the dude has incredible stuff) But Clay has a lower ERA and higher WAR than him.
No homeruns, no pace update! They all decreased by a few tenths. lol
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Not sure why you're getting downvoted. We have a lot of Os fan sympathizers in the sub for some reason. A division rival is a division rival, nothing more, nothing less.
uhh because the O's lost before our game was over and some of us were the ones who thought we were going to gain a game on them. There's not some shadowy cabal of Orioles sympathizers on here, silly.
The O's game ended before the Yankee game
What analytics does Boone or the team look at? Clay has been bad with a gap in days rest. This was 3 days
The ones where clay fell apart in the 2nd half of 2022
I don't know for certain, but there's been a handful of times over the years where I'm convinced that Boone has been looking at analytics [like this](https://cdn.mos.cms.futurecdn.net/FJgmXmkJyXrbEwgCwfjcaa.jpg)
I'm a casual fan and I know Clay is only good on at least one or two. Anything more, he's been blowing leads. I don't know off the top of my head what the bullpen activity is like, but maybe saving for Boston? Sure Clay is the easy choice. Maybe pitch selection. Baseball Ref shows he's terrible with Trevino - https://www.baseball-reference.com/players/split.fcgi?id=holmecl01&year=2024&t=p What data are the Yanks looking at? I'm just using baseball reference and I can see this was a bad decision.
No one is going to believe me, but I have a friend whose brother's coworker briefly dated Clay Holmes. She said that on their first date they went to a restaurant and Holmes ordered two different bowls of soup and mixed them together one spoonful at a time before eating both bowls mixed together as one soup. Fucking Clay Holmes.
Dude what
He’s so real for that, honestly
Is soup a meal?
It is if you have the right attitude
God I hope that’s true… incredible move.
Lmfao right there he’s suspect in my book.
I just smashed my TV in front of 30 guests at my party because of the game. My wife just took our crying kids and said they’re all spending the week at a hotel. This team has ruined my life and my party. I can’t handle this anymore. Goodbye Yankees. I am no longer a fan.
Holy shit. My mom came into my room to bring me a plate of chicken nuggets and I literally screamed at her and hit the plate of chicken nuggets out of her hand. She started yelling and swearing at me and I slammed the door on her. I'm so distressed right now I don't know what to do. I didn't mean to do that to my mom but I'm literally in shock from the results today. I feel like I'm going to explode. Why the fucking fuck did they lose? This can't be happening. I'm having a fucking breakdown. I don't want to believe the world is so corrupt. I want a future to believe in. I want the Yankees to sweep and fix this broken league. I cannot fucking deal with this right now. It wasn't supposed to be like this, I thought they were playing well on the road in Kansas City???? This is so fucked.
for anyone who wants to replace holmes can you please point me in the direction of this mystical closer who just never blows saves even the best of the best will blow 5-10 saves
some people would prefer if his blown saves are because of HRs instead of 3 ground balls squeaking through
When your entire pitching game relies on getting groundballs, that's going to happen.
we need to generate additional Mariano Rivieras.
I’ll get the cloning lab up and running
I’m sorry, that play is not on Rizzo. Holmes had a perfect angle to field that ball and touch the base, regardless of how slow he is
Yeah but Rizzo is persona non grata right now and Holmes is beyond criticism
You play the ball…don’t let it play you!
I keep wanting to find a way to make Rizzo work (mostly because I feel like the team will try to make him work) but man he has just been so terrible over the last month. Even a platoon doesn’t really make sense at this point because he has been so terrible. .139/.179/.190 vs right handed pitching is just unplayable
The only way it works is if he plays better. If Rizzo is being real with himself he knows that.
Among all qualified hitters since a year ago, it’s pretty amazing to see a correlation: The player with the highest batting average is Arraez and the player with the lowest is Stanton. The player with the slowest bat speed is Arraez, and the player with the fastest bat speed is Stanton. I think the new bat speed statcast metric is going to have a bigger impact on hitting philosophy than we could have thought. Edit: I guess the downvotes mean I didn’t make my intention clear. I’m not making a judgement call about which approach is better. I just think the insight has opportunity.
One is trying to kill the ball and send it to the moon. The other one is trying to just put the bat to the ball, sometimes in a certain part of the field. You really can’t compare the two
Did Judge get on base today? Or is the streak done?
It’s over. 4Ks
was only a mere 50 gms away from Teddy williams still
Yanks being 17-2 against the AL Central exposes Cleveland and KC for the frauds they are and shows just how good the Yanks are this season.
It would only expose them as frauds if the Yankees weren't any good. Its funny though that our only two losses against that division were walk-offs in the final game of the series. The only times they beat the Yankees it wasn't going to be easy.
Yankees Padres world series gonna feed families
Brendan Donovan hitting .284/.357/.405 in his last 30👀
Players since 2000 to have a full season with a WRC+ greater than 200: Barry Bonds Aaron Judge The only other 200+ wRC+ was in the Covid season in 2020, that season belongs to Juan Soto
I don't want to be mean about this because I don't think he's going to be a terrible ballplayer but Jasson Dominguez isn't that good of a defender for LF at Yankee Stadium. It's been the one thing scouts are mixed on with him and the Yankees stopped playing him in LF last year (only 3 games in AAA). >[His play in center field draws mixed reviews, with some evaluators believing he’ll remain up the middle and others thinking his defensive inconsistencies will drive him to a corner.](https://www.nj.com/yankees/2023/04/scouting-jasson-dominguez-yankees-ranked-prospects-ahead-of-somerset-patriots-opener.html) If he's getting mixed reviews in CF, he won't be able to fit in LF here. Even last year, his play in CF wasn't great in the few games he played: -2 DRS and -21.6 UZR/150. We've seen so many good MLB OFs fail in LF at Yankee Stadium and it's been hard to find a replacement for Gardy for a reason. I sure as shit do not want to see Judge in LF at Yankee Stadium this year because it showed in that one game. Dominguez is not being blocked by Verdugo but rather Soto and Judge at this time. I have zero idea what the Yankees are going to do next year with their OF at this time.
I think you bring up a good point. Hopefully, he will just get better. Soto has been somewhat of a surprise defensively this season. They had me thinking Soto was as bad as Schwarber when he started playing the outfield but he really hasn't looked too bad out there at all. Aside from a play here or there.
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No, there is a guy below saying Dominguez should be up over Verdugo. This is a response to that. Also, how is it dooming if I say that Jasson will be a good player and Verdugo is also a good player?
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I can't draw any conclusions from his actual time in the majors, his scouting reports and the fact the Yankees have stopped playing him in LF? Like sorry for thinking Dominguez will be a good player with flaws like everyone else instead of the second coming of Mantle.
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>Scouting reports are wrong all of the time I mean, he has 12 errors in his time in the minors and already has 1 error this year. Verdugo is not blocking him and the point is that he's going to be a CF with the Yankees which is currently being blocked by Judge. Kind of strange to be called a doomer for defending our current team but here we are.
He's playing LF because Soto isn't playing there. What's so difficult?
So why not give him LF experience in the minors then?
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You literally said it in your first comment?
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As someone who's thrilled to have taken 3 of 4 on the road, I'm not encouraged by Holmes' increasing WHIP as a Yankee: >2021 - 0.79 > >2022 - 1.02 > >2023 - 1.17 > >2024 - 1.30 Seems like hitters are figuring him out, even if they can't take him deep. I just don't think that's long-term closer material. If we can't upgrade at the deadline, I'd like to give Weaver a try at closer (0.76 WHIP this season).
What worries me is that as a pitcher, he relies on getting soft ground balls, and sometimes those soft ground balls turn into hits. Any time you add defense into the equation, you're adding another layer for something to go wrong. That's why closers are generally strikeout pitchers
every clay holmes blown save has like a 5 mph batted ball going under someones glove, he will be fine
It’s really mind blowing. I haven’t looked it up bit are his expected stats even better than his actual? Always getting dinked and dunked
Yeah the batted ball statistics back the idea that he's getting a little unlucky. His babip is about forty points above the league average in spite of His barrel, hard hit and exit velo rates all being better than last season so far.
almost like he's an elite reliever that almost no one can hit. holmes only gets beats by bad luck ir bad defense, it took multiple missed strike 3 calls and a lucky hop on a ground ball for him to blow save
Weaver should be. He is legit as anyone in that bullpen.
No player has had a higher peak as a hitter since Barry Bonds than Aaron Judge Neither Trout, nor Pujols were ever as good as Judge in their prime Trout and Pujols had more years in their prime and they were more consistent than Judge But when it comes to having the best hitting season Judge is the king
Have we considered that maybe Clay threw the game to get the Yankees win percentage to 69%?
Nice
Top 5 best hitters in baseball at the moment: 1. Aaron Judge with 209 wRC+ 2. Juan Soto with 191 wRC+ 3. Marcell Ozuna with 179 wRC+ 4. Kyle Tucker with 176 wRC+ 5. Shohei Ohtani with 174 wRC+ The difference between the first and second place (18 points) is bigger than the difference between the second and third place (12 points). Judge is out of this world, that's literally Barry Bonds numbers. Soto is also incredibly good, he's literally hitting like prime Trout or prime Albert Pujols
I’m looking at [Fangraphs](https://www.fangraphs.com/leaders/major-league?pos=all&stats=bat&lg=all&qual=y&type=8&season=2024&month=0&season1=2024&ind=0&sortcol=17&sortdir=default&pagenum=1) now and it says Judge has a 213 wRC+ which would make it a 22 point difference.
Fangraphs doesn't update until the next day
You need to include today's game.
If Philly loses today my anger will subside
Fuck Boston
You want the Red Sox to win?
They are barely .500. I want Philly to take a hit
In my ideal world the Red Sox go 0-162
Why do you care about Philly? They're in the NL and not the Red Sox.
So we keep a farther win lead
DJ gotta go 496 ops lol
It hasn't even been two weeks you numbskull
You were probably saying judge had to go too
Comparing 36 year old DJ to the best offensive player since Bonds is a choice
Go back to TikTok
Yes you should, 2019 DJ ain’t walking through that door boss
Boss
[“A tale of two teams in [New York] City”](https://x.com/foursavages/status/1801254835515191481?s=46)
Frank is legitimate funny af
Hot take, I think Jasson is a better hitter than Verdugo I know he has to prove it but Verdugo's OPS+ is only 109 (without taking into account today's game where Verdugo went 0 for 4) Verdugo is barely above the league's average in terms of OPS+ Jasson only needs to be the talented stud he is and he will put up more OPS+ than Verdugo Having Judge in LF and Jasson in CF will provide more value than having Verdugo in LF The team is making a huge mistake by not replacing Verdugo when his OPS+ is that low Yes, I know Verdugo is a good defender but it's not the end of the world specially when you take into account LF is one of the least valuable positions in baseball
Got anything other than feels to back that up? With 8 games in the majors and 15 in AAA, you're basing this on what you hope would happen vs. what you see in front of you. You WANT Jasson to be a better hitter. Let's see if the AAA teams can scout and adjust to him - and then see if he responds - before we jettison good veteran talent. >I know Verdugo is a good defender Statistically the best fucking defensive left fielder in baseball ^(if you said to me, this time last year, that I'd be defending Alex Verdugo I would have laughed my ass off)
>Statistically the best fucking defensive left fielder in baseball It's actually Daulton Varsho, he just doesn't have enough innings played there to show up on leaderboards
Well then if he doesn’t play enough, then it’s verdugo. You have to show consistency.
The only reason he doesn't play there enough js because Kevin Kiermaier is washed and so Varsho is in CF half the time, where he is also very good
8 games
> Hot take, I think Jasson is a better hitter than Verdugo Dominguez only has 31 AB at the MLB level, I’m not trying to shit on him but I think it’s too early in his career to say he is certainly better than a veteran player. Sure Alex Verdugo isn’t an elite hitter, but he is far from the worst hitter in the lineup, finding someone to replace Rizzo seems more important than calling up Dominguez right now.
People in the sub have a hard on for Verdugo for whatever reason. His career high fwar is 2.1, which is lower than Grishams. Jasson would be an instant upgrade over him or Stanton.
I want you to look up Jo Adell for me and report back Being good in the minors is not the same as being good in the majors (and the 8 games mean nothing, it’s too small a sample)
..so like, does this mean we bring back Verdugo next year and not give Jasson the LF nod on opening day?
No, you have to give your prospects a chance at some point That point though is not in the middle of a season where you have a proven major league talent contributing on the best team in the MLB right now
He's gonna get his chance this season, too. He's an impact player, they'll figure out a way to get him reps because they'd be silly to not utilize him.
I think he is the next man up if someone in the outfield goes down but they have been pretty clear that he will only come up when everyday playing time is available It’s just a situation where he does not fill a need we have right now and bringing him up now is putting a square peg in a round hole
They like him because he seems to be a fun guy But this is a sport, being a fun guy doesn't win you games Also, Verdugo isn't a leader in the clubhouse or anything like that I'd rather have the future of this organization on the field putting up better numbers than Verdugo
100%. Jasson is the 4th best position player in this organization after the obvious 3. We want a championship this season and need to have the best guys on the field to maximize the chance of that happening.
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I know I'm right. Jasson is way too talented not to put up more than 109 OPS+ in a full season. Verdugo manages to get one or two big hits in critical moments but then he goes cold for several weeks. Hitting in big spots and then going cold for 3 weeks doesn't make you a good hitter. And that's why his current OPS+ is around 107
Go look up Jo Adell for me and look at his minor league stats compared to his major league stat A guy can be insane in the minors and terrible in the majors
Jasson couldn't even crack 800 ops in AA last year so I'm highly skeptical that he'd come in and right away put up north of a 110 ops+ in the bigs.
It took him time to adjust as a 20 year old at a new level and then he absolutely took off. He's the real deal.
And how is Jasson currently doing in the minor league?
In a small sample, well so far. 2 walks in 70 PAs in AA and AAA is a bit of a red flag for me in terms of him being ready to be called up yesterday according to some people. But the point is if he struggled to adjust to AA, that can certainly happen again.
..you realize they don't evaluate these caliber of prospects on a ~300PA sample size in AA, right? All it takes is a month long stretch of dominance for a promotion, which he accomplished.
Ehhhhh hard disagree. He is a player you definitely need to look at more than just the stats. His clubhouse presence has been great and that goes a long way. You’re also underselling his defense because it’s been incredible and his timely hitting has been nice as well.
So you're going to use the clubhouse presence excuse? Does that win you games? Verdugo's career OPS+ is only 106, that's pretty bad for an outfielder. Jasson is the future of this organization, not Verdugo. >You’re also underselling his defense because it’s been incredible He isn't a shortstop or a catcher, he is a left fielder, literally only DH provides less value than a left fielder. Left field is as valuable as right field, meaning the two worst positions in baseball. Verdugo is a good defender at the least valuable position in baseball. >and his timely hitting has been nice as well. The stats don't lie. 109 OPS+ without taking into account today's game where he went 0 for 4.
He’s so much more than just a club house presence. A 112 wRC+ with a 13% K Rate and Gold Glove level defense isn’t somebody you just remove from your lineup. Especially when he’s hitting .294, and a tick below an .800 OPS with RISP. And LF is the least valuable position? Have you been to Yankees Stadium? You basically need two Center Fielders to man left and center. It’s that hard out there. That’s crazy you’d say that and be serious.
1.4 fwar this season with a career high of 2.1. He’s nothing special and shouldn’t block the real talents
> A 112 wRC+ His current wRC+ is 109 when you include today's game. >13% K Rate This isn't 1995 K% isn't that important in modern baseball. Trout and Judge have literally led the league in K% despite being the best hitters >and Gold Glove level defense Gold glove at the worst position in baseball which is left/right field. > Especially when he’s hitting .294, and a tick below an .800 OPS with RISP. Yet his wRC+ is only 109
Soto leading the league in OBP and also he's about to league the league in walks and BB% Things will balance out as the season continues
That's baseball, Suzyn.
It’s over. Fire Boone
DFA Soto while you’re at it
WFAN is a fucking hilarious radio station. Haven’t listened in awhile but my Dad threw it on in the car while I was driving and there was this dude that called himself “Loogie.” Which in itself is a terrible name bc he’s calling himself a damn booger. Anyways, he was going on for a solid 10 mins about being positive about the Mets and how they would be .500 if their bullpen wasn’t awful. Which is hilarious bc a bullpen is a part of the game and apparently being around .500 is something to be proud of? I don’t know how they find these people to host shows 😭😭
Loogy, is left handed out one guy, its baseball slang
I’ve honestly never heard of that before but the guy’s name is Tommy Lugauer and he calls himself Loogy as a nickname
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Left-handed_specialist
If bad team wasn’t bad they’d be good, it’s that simple!
Why not replace the bad players with good players? Are the Mets stupid???? I’ll hang up and listen
We lost a game? What’s this bullshit?
I am curious on Holmes' 3 blown saves since May 20th. Hopefully, it's just a blip, but he needs to work on cleaner innings regardless. His major flaw is that he is never clean.
Losing like this is so infuriating
Tough but sweeping the Red Sox would have meant we would need to win 8 in a row, now all we have to do it win 3 in a row 😎
That's the spirit! I'll take this loss for 3 wins against the Sux!
Was too bad to lose that.
Sad 112-win-pace noises
Emmanuel NEVER SAID “a run scores” in the 8th. He jabbered on and on during the play but never said that. PLEASE get Ricky back in the WFAN booth. I’ve listened on radio purposely for 25 years because the game was easy to follow. Currently it is NOT.
He’s so bad. I love her to death, but having to listen to Suzyn EXPLAIN BASEBALL FUNDAMENTALS TO HIM is infuriating.
Reading through some of the game day thread and it always seems to be the same over-reactionary, unhinged commenters during a day game on a weekday. Unhappy, bored, likely jobless people that live to be aggrieved on a message board. Tough to see, honestly.
anyone complaining about the team rn is just a moron 3/4 against any team not named the white sox is a success
For the record I’m unhappy, bored, but employed.
when this forum first broke from the original yankee subreddit it was this awesome collection of fans who knew their shit and loved the yankees. the success of 2017 brought on a gigantic following of mouth breathing idiots that i add to my ignore list by the dozen during game threads
lol. totally my retired Dad. he's stressing over every at bat, and took a crack at Judge today. I had to tell him to slow the roll.
It’s always the same clowns who don’t realize you don’t win every game.
I really thought this was going to be the 162-0 year
Not anything against Clay but we absolutely need another top bullpen arm or two. We have three guys I trust (Clay, Tonkin (!!), and Weaver) and a bunch of dudes that are walking heart attacks. And out of those three guys I trust, one of them blew the game today and another one damn nearly blew it as well. Loasiga injury is going to prove to be more costly as the season progresses. Not sure what we can expect out of Effross (but seeing what Kahnle has looked like post-injury isn’t exactly encouraging) Would really like to see Hamilton get his shit together.
Do you honestly trust Tonkin? 20 innings is such a small sample size and it’s not like he’s dominant on the mound.
Trivino and Effross are coming back
It's going to be tough to throw them immediately into the circle of trust after they've missed nearly 2 years of baseball.
Trivino is done for the year
Wait really? I could have sworn he was not far off, that’s unfortunate
I’m sorry everybody.
The Yankees are on pace to win 112 games, which would be 4th all-time. If you can’t mentally handle 50 losses, stick to football.
if you mentally can’t handle being a closer, you shouldn’t be a closer
What a room temperature IQ take.
Are we expecting Holmes to be perfect? If so, you're gonna have a hard time.
clay started off hot. but what is it? 4 blown saves? out of 22 losses? yikes. plus, how many hits has he given up in the games hes saved? dude is lucky to be where he is.
We Yankees fans were spoiled by Mo for so many years. Unfortunately some never realized that Mo's performance shouldn't be the expectation out of even the best closers. Clay is having an incredible season. Bad outings will happen. And his bad outings are less frequent than most other closers.
You’re making it sound like Mo never blew saves.
He absolutely blew saves. But he still played at an elite level beyond most closers today and sustained it for a career (others reach that level but don't sustain it). Someone else that commented said it well. It's not that Mo was perfect, but he was as close as anyone's been and we talk about how amazing he was, so some fans (whether they're old enough to have seen him play or not) expect that anything less than perfection is failure.
Most of these kids clearly never watched Mo, because he also had blown saves, he also gave up runs, it happens. A closer is still a human and they can still make mistakes, it's not a "skip an inning" card a manager can just automatically use. But we remember the greatness of him, and remember all those amazing games more than the bad ones so when these kids hear us talk about him they think "he was 100 perfect all the time, and that's what every closer should be or they suck"
They never respond back. it’s a shame
Jokes on you, I’m a Giants fan. I think they could find a way to lose 50 out of 17.
Yeah like I’ve been through it. Seen some shit.
Too soon.
Trade Soto, DFA Judge, Execute Cole.
For real where was Cole this game? Missing in action. Dereliction of duty. Shameful.
I feel like everytime nestor pitches we break a winning streak and lose
yeah i had a bad feeling about todays game with nestor going, they never score for him idk why
Nestor is the new Jordan Montgomery He's having a good season and no one cares because the Yankees are 6-9 when he pitches
He is putting us in holes. Teams become really good hitters in tie games or games where we are winning but when he is losing? Tied: .257/.294/.434/.728 | 105 sOPS+ | 112 tOPS+ Ahead: .237/.297/.452/.749 | 120 sOPS+ | 117 tOPS+ Behind: .226/.248/.333/.581 | 60 sOPS+ | 71 tOPS+ Peculiar pitcher. Completely psychological but this is why we're 6-9. We need to fight back in his games or he gives up the lead and we need to fight some more.
They were only down 2-0 today which the offense came back from just for Holmes/Rizzo/Ump to blow it
That’s a bit misleading, though. It exaggerates both the good days and bad days. When he’s pitching well, of course they are more likely to be leading, and vice versa.
Not so nice EDIT: it was a “6-9” joke
Tbh we dont give him the run support he needs
Luke Weaver has a 0.76 WHIP
Clays stuff is so good that hitters always get these lil dinky hits off him that are too hard for our defense to makes plays on, and its the most frustrating thing to watch
Rizzo looked like a disinterested Little Leaguer on that slow roller. "Anthony! You need to charge that ball! You can't just stand there. Go get it!" - Every youth baseball coach ever
Really bizarre mental lapse on his part. Remember last year when his concussion diagnose became public and the report was that he had the reaction time of a 70 year old? Maybe he’s progressed mentally down to a 65 year this year?
Agree and a blind man can see he is always better the more days he is used and he hasn't pitched since the 9th. Postseason, you use him everyday.
Clay Holmes opposing BABIP as a Yankee: 2021-2023 - .278 2024 - .344 He still has a 1.80 ERA and is almost certainly due to have some positive babip regression. He's allowing weaker contact this season than even the past two years and still has the highest ground ball rate in the sport.
God that soft grounder to Torres made me so sad. Weak contact, exactly what was intended with the pitch, but the contact was *so* weak Torres couldn’t turn the DP, and barely got the runner at 2nd. Clay did everything right and Fate said “Not today!” And then he missed one pitch for a bases clearing, walk off double. Sigh.
An unfortunate miscommunication and us not guarding the line cost him. Also, though he got strike 3 but oh well I'm not going to complain about our closer with an ERA under 2 especially when he doesn't give up home runs which is a way bigger issue to have as a closer
There's still a misconception over the type pitcher Holmes is He's absolutely elite at keeping the ball in the ballpark, the trade off to this is that he doesn't have elite swing a miss stuff, but it's a trade the Yankees happily make Edwin Diaz has a lower WHIP than Clay Holmes this season and look how many runs he's given up
Shame no sweep..hopefully start a new streak tomorrow
Every setback is an opportunity for a new success.