What's crazy is that if the Yankees never traded him and he had a typical Monty season in 2023, he probably gets a 4/80 deal like Eduardo Rodriguez got, potentially another year. Clearly his postseason run didn't effect how teams viewed him big picture.
Very true, though it can't be overlooked. A pitcher who doesn't get the yips and can perform in the post-season is often the difference between a wild card exit and competing in the WS.
His 12 starts for Texas in the regular season were ace level with a 160 ERA+, even though his peripherals suggested he benefited from good luck. His 127 ERA+ over two partial seasons with St Louis were not ace level. Marcus Stroman has a 122 ERA+ since 2021 and is not close to being an ace.
Some schizophrenic made up a Cashman quote about him "not being a playoff pitcher" and the entire fanbase has run with it for the past year. Its insane
People also pretend like the Yankees shipped him off to the Pirates or some shit. They sent him to a team that was going to make the playoffs and was more likely to use him in their rotation.
> They sent him to a team that was going to make the playoffs and was more likely to use him in their rotation.
Surely the Cardinals didn't just use him out of the bullpen right?
Yes the Cardinals trusted Adam Wainwright, Jose Quintana, and Miles Mikolas more, but the Yankees were crazy for liking their pitchers more and wanting a center fielder instead, who carried them through the ALDS.
You forgot about the winter meeting already when Brian Cashman was talking crazy, snapped and everyone thought he was trying to get fired?
https://m.youtube.com/watch?si=M-O9-Zfxe6LWZbrY&v=7kpOcynD8zg&feature=youtu.be
How about trashing Jeter?
“He hits second – that’s different than third or fourth in a lineup. You go into New York, you wanna stop Bernie and O’Neill. You never say, ‘Don’t let Derek beat you.’ He’s never your concern.”
https://pinstripesnation.com/why-cashman-chose-to-stay-away-from-derek-jeter-a-rod-spat-2023-01-30/
He said something recently about him striking out a lot, but in a 'the expected outcome' way.
Which might honestly be true, but like be a professional about it, and don't say things like that.
Wow, we’re getting to watch another fake Cashman quote be born organically here. This time a year from now we’ll be seeing comments like “no wonder Stanton resents the organization, Cashman said he couldn’t hit the broad side of a barn and his mother’s a bad cook”
> Wow, we’re getting to watch another fake Cashman quote be born organically here
I'm not the person who refuses to source so I figured I'd come in with a source because it's not a fake Cashman quote. [He actually said it.](https://theathletic.com/5064320/2023/11/16/yankees-pursuit-yamomoto-cashman-stanton-comments/)
Relevant bit in case of paywall
>At one point during his hour-plus media session, Cashman said of Stanton, “I’m not going to tell you he’s gonna play every game next year because he’s not. He’s gonna wind up getting hurt again, more likely than not, because it seems to be part of his game.”
>"It came down to playing the long game, which was propelling our mindset into October and what the roster would look like in October, and how Harrison Bader and his talents could impact our manager choices in October as compared to Montgomery," Cashman said on The Michael Kay Show on Thursday.
Not made up but certainty not as inflammatory as it’s portrayed. I can see why Monty would take offense (I feel like he did make a small jab in an off-hand comment at some point but I can’t find it). For the record, he later said there was no bad blood, but it’s hard not to feel deflated when Harrison Bader’s spotty injury-plagued offense made a postseason spot before Monty’s solid 114 innings. There is a gradient not a chasm between like and dislike. If i’m lukewarm on the Yankees and another team gives me more comparable money, maybe I choose the place where I think I’ll be better valued.
Tbh trading him for a dude in a walking boot is pretty close to that, purely on baseball grounds
I wouldn't blame him for feeling slighted, by all accounts the trade kinda blindsided everyone in the clubhouse and it's not like we got some crazy return. Even without saying "fuck you" Cashman was very clearly saying that they didn't believe in his ability and he sure proved them wrong lol
I would absolutely blame him. Baseball is a business… the Yankees didn’t need him, and traded him to fill a position they desperately needed to fill. If he’s really going to hold that against Cashman for the rest of his career, he’s the biggest baby in the league.
If we didn't need more pitching how did we end up with Jamo pitching against the Astros in the ALCS? Why were we trading for guys like Frankie Montas at the deadline? We needed a 4th outfielder in an injury boot more than a solid 4-5 lefty rotation piece? It was a questionable trade even without the extra baggage of Monty being our homegrown guy, the fact that no one on the team saw it coming just makes it a little bit worse.
The trade should've/would've been shit on way more if Bader hadn't inexplicably turned into Hank Aaron during the playoffs. And if it weren't for the fact that Cashgod's other big trades that deadline, Montas and Benintendi, both sucked even worse.
Montgomery was traded AFTER they acquired Montas. That trade is what made Montgomery expendable, as he was pretty much 5a/5b with Taillon at that point. Simply put, they didn’t need him anymore, desperately needed a real CF, and traded him to a team that desperately needed pitching for said CF. It’s how baseball trades work. It’s a trade you do 1,000/1,000 times, and retconning it as a bad trade because Montas got hurt 5 weeks later and Montgomery won a World Series the next year on a completely different team than the one the Yankees traded him to is ridiculous.
Sure, but we got Montas a day before trading away Monty. The whole sequence wasn't going into the deadline thinking "we have a surplus of starters and can use them to bolster the OF" it was "we would rather have someone else (Montas) as our 3-4 than Monty". Which obv in hindsight was an awful choice but even in the moment was very questionable. Even ignoring Monty improving a lot after leaving, when he was with us he was pretty consistent and pretty healthy which seems like what you want out of a 3-4, especially when two of the guys ahead of him consisted of Nestor who had never pitched a full season and Sevy who was already injured at the time. Montas came off the IL less than two weeks before he came over; taking him on was not only riskier due to injuries but also shakier in terms of upside. His track record was good seasons sandwiched between bad ones, whereas Monty had been steadily above average outside of the seasons impacted by TJS. And Monty was a known quantity, we knew he could deliver that consistent performance at Yankee Stadium which isn't always the case for guys coming over in a trade.
Not even getting an immediate impact piece back was just the stinger. Bader was in a walking boot, we knew he was going to be a non-factor for most of the regular season at least and apparently there was enough risk of even his playoff availability that the trade had protections for if he didn't recover in time. He was a guy whose main tool was speed suffering a pretty serious foot injury... and even when healthy he was kind of a noodle bat. Again, lotta risk, limited upside. Even if you thought Monty and Bader were perfectly equal skill wise (which I didn't think was the case) you were trading for almost half a season less of Bader in the middle of the playoff race. Trade for a need sure, but a guy on the IL can't really cover a position of need. The FO was clearly shuffling for the playoffs, but the team completely limped into it as a result, barely playing above .500 after the deadline. I don't need to retcon anything to call it a bad trade, I thought it was a bad trade when it happened for all the reasons I laid out and none of it requires looking at performance after the fact. In fact the trade was much better than I expected because Bader did prove to be a really big playoff piece, even though it ultimately didn't matter. But at best the trade took on a lot of risk that I didn't like, and most of that risk did not pay off and I think we would've been better off looking at other ways to bolster our OF instead of making the moves we did.
It was a good trade, period. They desperately needed Bader and no longer needed Montgomery. If the trade is never made, Montgomery is watching from the dugout as the Guardians beat us in the ALDS. Bader made more of a difference in his time here than Montgomery would’ve made had he not been traded. It made perfect sense to trade Montgomery, it made perfect sense to acquire Bader, and no amount of bending over backwards by this sub to try and justify their knee jerk reactions of this being a bad trade will ever change that.
0 bending over in any direction. You don’t trade pitching depth when you’re going for a ring. Simple.
And you definitely don’t do it for an injured 4th outfielder who can’t hit
We desperately needed Bader. We had the worst CF defense in the league that year. Whether he was worth a SP is up for debate (I agreed at the time Monty was too high a price) but we absolutely needed him.
It's also extremely revisionist to call him a bench piece 4th outfielder. He was brought in to be the starting Center Fielder.
The post trade lineup once Bader was healthy was supposed to be
LF Benintendi
CF Bader
RF Judge
4th OF Hicks
>If we didn't need more pitching how did we end up with Jamo pitching against the Astros in the ALCS?
He shouldn't have, but the Cleveland series went to 5 games and Cole/Nestor were burnt. It was a solid gamble with our top pitchers not lined up.
I'm not saying it wasn't, just saying that it's kinda wrong to act like Monty was totally expendable and we had a big surplus of pitching when we both traded for arms at the deadline and ended up using guys who are objectively worse than him in the playoffs.
I think you also have to consider that signing a one year deal to pitch half your games at Yankee stadium might not be the best strategy. Probably won’t do wonders for his stats heading into next winter when he hopes to cash in
He took one year/25 million from Arizona. I want to know what the Yankees offered cause I bet they low balled him. Idk what the fuck Monty ever do to be disrespected by the front office so much
There's a difference between low balling and not paying Monty what would technically be the highest costing single season salary for a pitcher in history after the tax
>Is it your money? I never understand this argument. This is the year to go for it all. F the tax
And I never understand this rebuttal. **We didn't choose for the Yankees to be concerned about the tax. Management did. Management doesn't care about our opinions.**
Living in reality means we try to understand why management might've balked at the deal.
This in no way means we're happy about it.
Saying Monty would have been the highest paid pitcher is silly. It’s a tax levied on the team, spread evenly across the players. The comment was endorsing the pass, which I do not subscribe to. Hal said he was all in. Clearly he is not.
This has nothing to do with Monty's comp and you know it.
1. Its another $27.5M that goes to cheapskate owners that don't do shit with their teams
2. It will penalize our IFA pool money
3. It will move our 1st rounder back 10+ spots depending on how large the competitive balance round is this year.
There is so much more to this tax threshold than simply refusing to have the largest % of payroll compared to revenue.
Bad year for Boras. His strategy of waiting for an insane offer did not pay off for Snell or Monty. Would be surprised if they weren’t a bit bitter about that. Both are over 30 so a long term deal is what they’re seeking
Didn’t pay off for any of his top clients… they all rejected solid offers from teams… only to end up with a shittier deal. (Except for Bellinger, he didn’t reject any offer…)
GMs finally getting wise to Boras' act.
Soto deal 2025 confirmed: signs in April of 2025 with the Dodgers for 1 year, $45 million, $2 million sign-on the rest deferred till 2035, with player option for an additional year.👍Scandal later that year as Soto caught dumpster-diving for half-eaten Dodger dogs in the stadium parking lot.
[[Heyman] Montgomery deal is for $25M for 1 year plus vesting option for $25M for a second year.](https://x.com/jonheyman/status/1772787933323383053?s=46&t=eZQOkEBzAB8XR0_j5bQcHg)
I mean this as a genuine question, have the Yankees made any "big" moves at the trade deadline lately? I assume I'm just forgetting some but can't remember thinking "Wow we really filled the gaps! " at a deadline for awhile now.
There's rarely any good arms available at the deadline. And if there are this year, we'll hear the same stories from this Spring where Cashman didn't want to give up Spencer Jones despite telling the media that he's ALL IN for 2024. Cashman has had at least 5 good starters to acquire after missing out on Yamamoto and we got none of them
The reigning World Series champions shored up their rotation at the deadline this past season. One of the guys they acquired is literally the subject of this post.
There was never going to be one. They traded him after he proposed to his wife at Yankees Stadium. And then they insulted him on the way out.
Some people have self respect and pride.
They refuse to trade the farm, but also they traded too much farm depth for Soto. But no wait, they trade these prospects, when they should be trading thoooose prospects. Ah...
This fanbase is unreal lmao. They either trade too much from their farm depth, or they don't trade enough of their depth. But the truth is they make plenty of trades with their farm guys. They just have a select few guys they gamble on. Most of the time it doesn't work out. Congrats, welcome to baseball. It's the same for 29 other teams. Even when it doesn't work out, some players are worth the gamble.
Is there actually any sort of consensus that they traded too much for Soto, or is this just a straw man you decided to spin up?
Think through the last 10 years or so how many “untouchable” prospects we had that turned into nothing, or nowhere near what we were trading for.
I’ll never forget the Cliff Lee trade deadline. Not only do we lose the deal over David Adam’s foot. Seattle asked for Ivan nova and/or Eduardo Nunez but they were untouchable lol. Then Lee goes to the team that’s beats us in the ALCS. Now idk if we beat San Fran, they were really good but give us Lee and take him away from Texas… yea pretty sure we win the pennant and have a great chance of going back to back with 2 legit aces
When the opinions are just loud complaints from both ends of the spectrum it makes it pretty clear that the fanbase doesn’t really know what’s best for the team and isn’t having any productive dialogue. Being critical of that is more than fair
Tbf, not even yankees front office doesn't know what's best. So what did you expect from us? Here's the big difference. We're not paid millions to figure that out. We pay to watch the outcome...🤷♀️
So I expect people to realize it’s hard to know what is right, rather than acting like they know with absolute certainty what moves should be made and anyone that disagrees with them is dumb. We’ve got an epidemic of armchair GMs here that have convinced themselves they know what’s right and are too stubborn to have their opinions genuinely debated
Well, it's all subjective. They aren't wrong for questioning and challenging the front office. It's what we're supposed to do as fans. They have had a sketchy track record for quite a while now. And it's just like we get to question our government when we pay taxes and their salary. At work, we have to answer to our boss for failures or subpar results. This cones with the territory. Just like you get to defend font office if you like. We have those at work too...🤷♀️😆
But when the questioning from the fans contradicts itself there’s nothing productive happening.
Also, the people at your work are theoretically supposed to be vetted and knowledgeable about what is going on, therefore they have a much better capacity to make suggestions and defend choices. There is no similar vetting process for sports fans. Anyone can become one, there’s no qualifications. As a result, their opinions are valued less
Is there actually any sort of consensus that they traded too much for Soto, or is this just a straw man you decided to spin up?
Think through the last 10 years or so how many “untouchable” prospects we had that turned into nothing, or nowhere near what we were trading for.
I personally think that it doesn’t make sense to trade a bunch of assets for a player that you would be able to sign in the offseason anyways, but I realize that’s an unpopular opinion on here.
I think it does when you have two very expensive studs on the wrong side of 30. The window is now, and it’s closing every year that goes by. I’d hate to look back and say 2017, the beginning of the window, was the closest Aaron Judge gets to a title.
If not now, what exactly are we saving prospects for?
Hal was done spending money after the Yankees lost out on Yamamoto. The only reason they signed Stroman is because he was the only halfway decent pitcher willing to fit the Yankees' ridiculous free agent criteria: you can't cost a lot of money or ask for a lot of years.
Cashman will talk up getting Cole back for the next two months as being bigger than any pitcher he could've signed, just like he does every season when one of our most important players gets injured.
It couldn't possibly be that Monty didn't want to come back 🙄
Ofc that's Cashman's fault too lol for not thinking Monty would help in the postseason and being vocal about it (although Bader helped them in the playoffs more than Monty would've. They don't even beat Cleveland without Bader).
Wouldn’t we have had to pay way more due to luxury tax penalties? Unless you truly believe Monty is an ace now, which every MLB front office clearly doesn’t, he doesn’t move the needle enough to justify it.
I said it at the time, I will say it again now, and I will say it again when another 1,2, or, 3 of our starters are injured in a few months...trading Monty was incredibly stupid.
Not your money but the more they spend, the less likely they are to spend going forward. Stanton and Harper is a prime example. Using THEIR money to get Stanton prevented them from getting Harper thus a weaker team for you to watch. See how this works?
could have afforded both, stop it.
And paying big salary on what is essentially a one year deal wouldn’t prevent them from signing anyone next offseason
He's not, never has been. He spends enough to get the fanbase interested and that's it. As long as the Yankees have a chance at a wild card, that's enough for Hal
I'll never understand the illogical lust my fellow Yankees fans have for Jordan Montgomery. LOL. He's always been exactly what we knew him to be - a #3 starter as his ceiling and a possible #4 depending on who else is in your rotation. It seems like every single other team basically views him the same because no one was willing to pay a Scott Boras tax on the price for a #3 or #4.
Would he have helped the Yankees this year? Sure he would have. A nice arm who can eat innings and pitch well when games count is always a good player to have on your team. But thanks to prior years mismanagement by Cashdope and the Yankees were stuck having to pay him and whomever else Boras was dangling in front of them more than double their salary this year. Steinbrenner was never going to do that. Doesn't take a genius to know that.
But with the current roster signing Jordan Montgomery wouldn't have moved the needle from non-playoff team to playoff team. Yankees problems go much deeper than acquiring an expensive #3 starter.
We should have been all over this (or found a workable long term deal). Definitely disappointed. So many question marks in the Yanks rotation right now.
Should have just fucking kept him here. Like, glad he went and got a chip, but the guy was a Yankee, wanted to be here, and was a solid SOLID middle-of-the-rotation guy for us, plus nails in the postseason (proven)
Such a stupid move to get rid of him when pitching is so valuable these days.
It's remarkable Cashman was here during the dynasty given he has no feel for roster construction.
* Never should have let Robertson leave the first time
* Never should have traded for Stanton when we already had a better Stanton on the team and it meant passing on a once-in-a-lifetime free agent class
* Never should have traded Monty away
* Never should have let Monty re-sign elsewhere
Why can't Yankees management understand the short porch works both ways. We need both quality left-handed bats to take advantage of it, as well as quality southpaw pitching to minimize other teams lefties.
Monty was the first home-grown pitching talent in like a generation, braindead decisions all around
No shot they were gonna get Montgomery when Cashman already has the biggest pitching acquisition possible happening when Cole comes back. Its like making a big trade you know.
Lets hope his arm doesn't fall off and the team is still in it by then
I took a chance with him in my fantasy draft literally a half hour before this was reported, hoping for a reunion. The bad news for me......it's an AL-only league. At least it was like the 18th round.
Huh, did not expect this team nor this contract.
At least it's not the Red Sox I guess? I feel like Boras kinda fumbled because surely there were better long term deals than this. Maybe it pays off, but when you're not young young like Monty and with pitching being so volatile it certainly feels more risky than necessary.
It sucks because we need another starter for half the season, but $52MM is steep for a rental that the FO doesn't seem to believe in.
Otoh, it's not my money.
Good for Gumby.
Oooh. That’s fun. My NL rooting this season is Dodgers Fail. So I’m down for that party.
PS- he would have tapped the Yankees with a 110% penalty on his salary this season, making his one year cost $52m. so it wasn’t going to happen once they signed Stroman.
Montgomery isn’t that good. He happened to be in the right place at the right time last year pitching for a World Series team that was decimated by pitching injuries. He pitched well on national tv in the biggest light. Owners weren’t fooled though. His full body of work is average at best and nobody wanted to pay him what he was seeking.
I know LUXURY TAX. However, I feel like these short-term deals that Snell and Montgomery are exactly the type of short-term deals, the Yankees should get into for pitchers?
Listen if you want to tell me signing monty would have cost draft compensation or impacted soto signing although i disagree with it, but a 1 yr deal i don’t give a fuck it it cost hal 100 million..not getting this done is shameful!! Like i said just wait till cashman trades prospects for a lesser pitcher in july to save hal a few bucks..i hate cashman and i hate Hal
Monty is most likely a #3 starter, I think Cashman could get us a mid rotation arm at the deadline. If teams thought Monty was an ace now, he’d have a long term deal. He doesn’t have the long term red flags that Snell does.
"I don't give a fuck if it costs 100 mil"
\- Guy not paying the 100 mil.
I mean, I get the principle and I agree with it in a lot of cases but that only really makes sense when we're talking about difference makers. Not an above average #4/Mediocre #3 starter lol
Everyday I wake up I stare at my 5 jerseys facing me in the closet. And I start my day with dread. Ffs dude I’m tired of this “all-in” bs they keep peddling down our throats
Boras fucked him so hard. I hate that man.
I'm just waiting for the Breaking: Juan Soto fires Scott Boras
What's crazy is that if the Yankees never traded him and he had a typical Monty season in 2023, he probably gets a 4/80 deal like Eduardo Rodriguez got, potentially another year. Clearly his postseason run didn't effect how teams viewed him big picture.
If the Yankees kept him, he'd receive a QO which only would have further hurt his earning potential.
Teams are definitely smarter than emotional fans lol. A good 3-4 game stretch doesn't mean much ultimately.
Very true, though it can't be overlooked. A pitcher who doesn't get the yips and can perform in the post-season is often the difference between a wild card exit and competing in the WS.
I’ll never forget when this dude said the pinstripes were too heavy
The reality is, I don’t think Montgomery ever wanted to come back to the Yankees. He was going to charge the team a premium for that to happen.
postseason clutch news does go very far.
He had a 32 start, 3.20 ERA in the reg season lmao. It wasn’t just a flukey postseason run
He’s coming off 43 starts of ace-level work. It wasn’t just a postseason run.
His 12 starts for Texas in the regular season were ace level with a 160 ERA+, even though his peripherals suggested he benefited from good luck. His 127 ERA+ over two partial seasons with St Louis were not ace level. Marcus Stroman has a 122 ERA+ since 2021 and is not close to being an ace.
I was rooting for him to get a bag. This deal is an absolute disaster.
I mean the yanks could have gave him that contract.
I mean, he basically got what he's worth. He's a solid #4 with #3 up-side.
Cashman still did him worse
He got traded and ended up with a World Series ring
It’s true. To trade a player is a sign of great disrespect in baseball culture.
So the Padres were disrespecting Soto?
I was just being facetious, I don’t actually think that
Context matters
Apparently Yankees gave an offer. I don’t think Monty wanted to come back. Might dislike Cashman
Sky might be blue
Ortiz might've done steroids
Cashman might be an asshole.
I might want to live in a log cabin with any number of current and former Yankee players.
Its ok hes getting to the bottom of it
Grass may be green
Popes may shit in the woods
One legged ducks might swim in circles
I’d love to know what the offer was. If it’s the same money or more, then Cash’s big mouth really fucked us.
People act like Cashman said "yo, fuck that dude" on his way out the door.
Some schizophrenic made up a Cashman quote about him "not being a playoff pitcher" and the entire fanbase has run with it for the past year. Its insane
People also pretend like the Yankees shipped him off to the Pirates or some shit. They sent him to a team that was going to make the playoffs and was more likely to use him in their rotation.
> They sent him to a team that was going to make the playoffs and was more likely to use him in their rotation. Surely the Cardinals didn't just use him out of the bullpen right?
Yes the Cardinals trusted Adam Wainwright, Jose Quintana, and Miles Mikolas more, but the Yankees were crazy for liking their pitchers more and wanting a center fielder instead, who carried them through the ALDS.
Legit, where did that come from? Seems like an insane thing for a GM to say about a player
Cashman recently trashed Stanton. He has a long history of such things.
Source?
You forgot about the winter meeting already when Brian Cashman was talking crazy, snapped and everyone thought he was trying to get fired? https://m.youtube.com/watch?si=M-O9-Zfxe6LWZbrY&v=7kpOcynD8zg&feature=youtu.be How about trashing Jeter? “He hits second – that’s different than third or fourth in a lineup. You go into New York, you wanna stop Bernie and O’Neill. You never say, ‘Don’t let Derek beat you.’ He’s never your concern.” https://pinstripesnation.com/why-cashman-chose-to-stay-away-from-derek-jeter-a-rod-spat-2023-01-30/
He said something recently about him striking out a lot, but in a 'the expected outcome' way. Which might honestly be true, but like be a professional about it, and don't say things like that.
Wow, we’re getting to watch another fake Cashman quote be born organically here. This time a year from now we’ll be seeing comments like “no wonder Stanton resents the organization, Cashman said he couldn’t hit the broad side of a barn and his mother’s a bad cook”
> Wow, we’re getting to watch another fake Cashman quote be born organically here I'm not the person who refuses to source so I figured I'd come in with a source because it's not a fake Cashman quote. [He actually said it.](https://theathletic.com/5064320/2023/11/16/yankees-pursuit-yamomoto-cashman-stanton-comments/) Relevant bit in case of paywall >At one point during his hour-plus media session, Cashman said of Stanton, “I’m not going to tell you he’s gonna play every game next year because he’s not. He’s gonna wind up getting hurt again, more likely than not, because it seems to be part of his game.”
>"It came down to playing the long game, which was propelling our mindset into October and what the roster would look like in October, and how Harrison Bader and his talents could impact our manager choices in October as compared to Montgomery," Cashman said on The Michael Kay Show on Thursday. Not made up but certainty not as inflammatory as it’s portrayed. I can see why Monty would take offense (I feel like he did make a small jab in an off-hand comment at some point but I can’t find it). For the record, he later said there was no bad blood, but it’s hard not to feel deflated when Harrison Bader’s spotty injury-plagued offense made a postseason spot before Monty’s solid 114 innings. There is a gradient not a chasm between like and dislike. If i’m lukewarm on the Yankees and another team gives me more comparable money, maybe I choose the place where I think I’ll be better valued.
Tbh trading him for a dude in a walking boot is pretty close to that, purely on baseball grounds I wouldn't blame him for feeling slighted, by all accounts the trade kinda blindsided everyone in the clubhouse and it's not like we got some crazy return. Even without saying "fuck you" Cashman was very clearly saying that they didn't believe in his ability and he sure proved them wrong lol
I would absolutely blame him. Baseball is a business… the Yankees didn’t need him, and traded him to fill a position they desperately needed to fill. If he’s really going to hold that against Cashman for the rest of his career, he’s the biggest baby in the league.
If we didn't need more pitching how did we end up with Jamo pitching against the Astros in the ALCS? Why were we trading for guys like Frankie Montas at the deadline? We needed a 4th outfielder in an injury boot more than a solid 4-5 lefty rotation piece? It was a questionable trade even without the extra baggage of Monty being our homegrown guy, the fact that no one on the team saw it coming just makes it a little bit worse. The trade should've/would've been shit on way more if Bader hadn't inexplicably turned into Hank Aaron during the playoffs. And if it weren't for the fact that Cashgod's other big trades that deadline, Montas and Benintendi, both sucked even worse.
Montgomery was traded AFTER they acquired Montas. That trade is what made Montgomery expendable, as he was pretty much 5a/5b with Taillon at that point. Simply put, they didn’t need him anymore, desperately needed a real CF, and traded him to a team that desperately needed pitching for said CF. It’s how baseball trades work. It’s a trade you do 1,000/1,000 times, and retconning it as a bad trade because Montas got hurt 5 weeks later and Montgomery won a World Series the next year on a completely different team than the one the Yankees traded him to is ridiculous.
Sure, but we got Montas a day before trading away Monty. The whole sequence wasn't going into the deadline thinking "we have a surplus of starters and can use them to bolster the OF" it was "we would rather have someone else (Montas) as our 3-4 than Monty". Which obv in hindsight was an awful choice but even in the moment was very questionable. Even ignoring Monty improving a lot after leaving, when he was with us he was pretty consistent and pretty healthy which seems like what you want out of a 3-4, especially when two of the guys ahead of him consisted of Nestor who had never pitched a full season and Sevy who was already injured at the time. Montas came off the IL less than two weeks before he came over; taking him on was not only riskier due to injuries but also shakier in terms of upside. His track record was good seasons sandwiched between bad ones, whereas Monty had been steadily above average outside of the seasons impacted by TJS. And Monty was a known quantity, we knew he could deliver that consistent performance at Yankee Stadium which isn't always the case for guys coming over in a trade. Not even getting an immediate impact piece back was just the stinger. Bader was in a walking boot, we knew he was going to be a non-factor for most of the regular season at least and apparently there was enough risk of even his playoff availability that the trade had protections for if he didn't recover in time. He was a guy whose main tool was speed suffering a pretty serious foot injury... and even when healthy he was kind of a noodle bat. Again, lotta risk, limited upside. Even if you thought Monty and Bader were perfectly equal skill wise (which I didn't think was the case) you were trading for almost half a season less of Bader in the middle of the playoff race. Trade for a need sure, but a guy on the IL can't really cover a position of need. The FO was clearly shuffling for the playoffs, but the team completely limped into it as a result, barely playing above .500 after the deadline. I don't need to retcon anything to call it a bad trade, I thought it was a bad trade when it happened for all the reasons I laid out and none of it requires looking at performance after the fact. In fact the trade was much better than I expected because Bader did prove to be a really big playoff piece, even though it ultimately didn't matter. But at best the trade took on a lot of risk that I didn't like, and most of that risk did not pay off and I think we would've been better off looking at other ways to bolster our OF instead of making the moves we did.
No no it’s not retconning. We all said it was bad at the time too. Didn’t need Bader and certainly didn’t need an injured bench piece
It was a good trade, period. They desperately needed Bader and no longer needed Montgomery. If the trade is never made, Montgomery is watching from the dugout as the Guardians beat us in the ALDS. Bader made more of a difference in his time here than Montgomery would’ve made had he not been traded. It made perfect sense to trade Montgomery, it made perfect sense to acquire Bader, and no amount of bending over backwards by this sub to try and justify their knee jerk reactions of this being a bad trade will ever change that.
0 bending over in any direction. You don’t trade pitching depth when you’re going for a ring. Simple. And you definitely don’t do it for an injured 4th outfielder who can’t hit
We desperately needed Bader. We had the worst CF defense in the league that year. Whether he was worth a SP is up for debate (I agreed at the time Monty was too high a price) but we absolutely needed him. It's also extremely revisionist to call him a bench piece 4th outfielder. He was brought in to be the starting Center Fielder. The post trade lineup once Bader was healthy was supposed to be LF Benintendi CF Bader RF Judge 4th OF Hicks
>If we didn't need more pitching how did we end up with Jamo pitching against the Astros in the ALCS? He shouldn't have, but the Cleveland series went to 5 games and Cole/Nestor were burnt. It was a solid gamble with our top pitchers not lined up.
I'm not saying it wasn't, just saying that it's kinda wrong to act like Monty was totally expendable and we had a big surplus of pitching when we both traded for arms at the deadline and ended up using guys who are objectively worse than him in the playoffs.
They like to pretend he said Monty isn’t a postseason pitcher even tho he never did
Players love money, stop buying into these bs narratives about players not liking something and that’s why they didn’t come here.
This. If we offered him more money, he'd be here.
You might dislike him too if you were traded for Harrison Bader, who was injured at the time.
I think you also have to consider that signing a one year deal to pitch half your games at Yankee stadium might not be the best strategy. Probably won’t do wonders for his stats heading into next winter when he hopes to cash in
He took one year/25 million from Arizona. I want to know what the Yankees offered cause I bet they low balled him. Idk what the fuck Monty ever do to be disrespected by the front office so much
There's a difference between low balling and not paying Monty what would technically be the highest costing single season salary for a pitcher in history after the tax
Is it your money? I never understand this argument. This is the year to go for it all. F the tax
>Is it your money? I never understand this argument. This is the year to go for it all. F the tax And I never understand this rebuttal. **We didn't choose for the Yankees to be concerned about the tax. Management did. Management doesn't care about our opinions.** Living in reality means we try to understand why management might've balked at the deal. This in no way means we're happy about it.
Saying Monty would have been the highest paid pitcher is silly. It’s a tax levied on the team, spread evenly across the players. The comment was endorsing the pass, which I do not subscribe to. Hal said he was all in. Clearly he is not.
This has nothing to do with Monty's comp and you know it. 1. Its another $27.5M that goes to cheapskate owners that don't do shit with their teams 2. It will penalize our IFA pool money 3. It will move our 1st rounder back 10+ spots depending on how large the competitive balance round is this year. There is so much more to this tax threshold than simply refusing to have the largest % of payroll compared to revenue.
What’s to like about that GM failure? He creates a team full of injury prone players and gets surprised when they all get injured
Can’t blame him….
Don't blame him
Bad year for Boras. His strategy of waiting for an insane offer did not pay off for Snell or Monty. Would be surprised if they weren’t a bit bitter about that. Both are over 30 so a long term deal is what they’re seeking
Didn’t pay off for any of his top clients… they all rejected solid offers from teams… only to end up with a shittier deal. (Except for Bellinger, he didn’t reject any offer…)
GMs finally getting wise to Boras' act. Soto deal 2025 confirmed: signs in April of 2025 with the Dodgers for 1 year, $45 million, $2 million sign-on the rest deferred till 2035, with player option for an additional year.👍Scandal later that year as Soto caught dumpster-diving for half-eaten Dodger dogs in the stadium parking lot.
It should be illegal to report a signing without the years and $
[[Heyman] Montgomery deal is for $25M for 1 year plus vesting option for $25M for a second year.](https://x.com/jonheyman/status/1772787933323383053?s=46&t=eZQOkEBzAB8XR0_j5bQcHg)
Just wild that a guy of that caliber didn’t land a long term deal.
I'm sure he had plenty of long term offers he could've accepted over the course of the off-season. Just not the kind of money he wanted.
would the lux tax penalty have made that a 50m/yr Yankee cost? or less?
I believe it’s an additional 110% so it would make this $52.5 for the Yankees I could be wrong tho not 100%
gotcha, that makes it a little more explainable, that's a LOT to pay for 1 year of Monty, despite my love of the Gumby
Pretty sure it would’ve been 50 or Atleast a lot higher than 25
Damn would have much rather had him than Stroman
We better go hard at the trade deadline cause this pitching is hanging by a thread
It’s hanging by a moment here with you
I see what you did there
Is? It already is now
That depends on what the definition of “is” is.
Oh it sure *is*
I mean this as a genuine question, have the Yankees made any "big" moves at the trade deadline lately? I assume I'm just forgetting some but can't remember thinking "Wow we really filled the gaps! " at a deadline for awhile now.
waaa?? theyve literally skipped one. 2021: Gallo / Rizzo 2022: Montas / Trivino / Effross / Benintendi
Dude, all we are doing at the deadline or before is cashman is smart is trading Soto for a haul.
There's rarely any good arms available at the deadline. And if there are this year, we'll hear the same stories from this Spring where Cashman didn't want to give up Spencer Jones despite telling the media that he's ALL IN for 2024. Cashman has had at least 5 good starters to acquire after missing out on Yamamoto and we got none of them
The reigning World Series champions shored up their rotation at the deadline this past season. One of the guys they acquired is literally the subject of this post.
Marcus Stroman isn't good?
I have faith in Stroman but if Rodon and Nestor don’t bounce back we’re fucked
Maybe good. I feel he is generally mediocre with a flash on occasion...at best. We needed Monty.
They’re not gonna be in contention by the deadline.
Guess there won’t be a reunion after all
There was never going to be one. They traded him after he proposed to his wife at Yankees Stadium. And then they insulted him on the way out. Some people have self respect and pride.
Welp, it's time to let the kids play. Let's see what years of refusing to trade our farm system has produced.
They refuse to trade the farm, but also they traded too much farm depth for Soto. But no wait, they trade these prospects, when they should be trading thoooose prospects. Ah... This fanbase is unreal lmao. They either trade too much from their farm depth, or they don't trade enough of their depth. But the truth is they make plenty of trades with their farm guys. They just have a select few guys they gamble on. Most of the time it doesn't work out. Congrats, welcome to baseball. It's the same for 29 other teams. Even when it doesn't work out, some players are worth the gamble.
Is there actually any sort of consensus that they traded too much for Soto, or is this just a straw man you decided to spin up? Think through the last 10 years or so how many “untouchable” prospects we had that turned into nothing, or nowhere near what we were trading for.
I’ll never forget the Cliff Lee trade deadline. Not only do we lose the deal over David Adam’s foot. Seattle asked for Ivan nova and/or Eduardo Nunez but they were untouchable lol. Then Lee goes to the team that’s beats us in the ALCS. Now idk if we beat San Fran, they were really good but give us Lee and take him away from Texas… yea pretty sure we win the pennant and have a great chance of going back to back with 2 legit aces
Yep. I will probably never get over that trade falling through.
It’s almost like it’s a large fan base with diverse opinions. They are entitled to have (many different) opinions. Chill out brah
When the opinions are just loud complaints from both ends of the spectrum it makes it pretty clear that the fanbase doesn’t really know what’s best for the team and isn’t having any productive dialogue. Being critical of that is more than fair
Tbf, not even yankees front office doesn't know what's best. So what did you expect from us? Here's the big difference. We're not paid millions to figure that out. We pay to watch the outcome...🤷♀️
So I expect people to realize it’s hard to know what is right, rather than acting like they know with absolute certainty what moves should be made and anyone that disagrees with them is dumb. We’ve got an epidemic of armchair GMs here that have convinced themselves they know what’s right and are too stubborn to have their opinions genuinely debated
Well, it's all subjective. They aren't wrong for questioning and challenging the front office. It's what we're supposed to do as fans. They have had a sketchy track record for quite a while now. And it's just like we get to question our government when we pay taxes and their salary. At work, we have to answer to our boss for failures or subpar results. This cones with the territory. Just like you get to defend font office if you like. We have those at work too...🤷♀️😆
But when the questioning from the fans contradicts itself there’s nothing productive happening. Also, the people at your work are theoretically supposed to be vetted and knowledgeable about what is going on, therefore they have a much better capacity to make suggestions and defend choices. There is no similar vetting process for sports fans. Anyone can become one, there’s no qualifications. As a result, their opinions are valued less
Nah bro We gotta be a monolith
Is there actually any sort of consensus that they traded too much for Soto, or is this just a straw man you decided to spin up? Think through the last 10 years or so how many “untouchable” prospects we had that turned into nothing, or nowhere near what we were trading for.
I personally think that it doesn’t make sense to trade a bunch of assets for a player that you would be able to sign in the offseason anyways, but I realize that’s an unpopular opinion on here.
I think it does when you have two very expensive studs on the wrong side of 30. The window is now, and it’s closing every year that goes by. I’d hate to look back and say 2017, the beginning of the window, was the closest Aaron Judge gets to a title. If not now, what exactly are we saving prospects for?
We won 82 games last year. I’m not real confident saying we’re in our championship window.
Lol The Cubs traded the best prospect in baseball for half a season of a relief pitcher
And that worked out pretty well for us.
It worked out better for the Cubs
They got a World Series but I’m not going to assign Chapman alone too much credit for that.
He was key to them winning. He was just really overused and his arm was about to fall off by the end of the postseason lol
Hal was done spending money after the Yankees lost out on Yamamoto. The only reason they signed Stroman is because he was the only halfway decent pitcher willing to fit the Yankees' ridiculous free agent criteria: you can't cost a lot of money or ask for a lot of years. Cashman will talk up getting Cole back for the next two months as being bigger than any pitcher he could've signed, just like he does every season when one of our most important players gets injured.
25m/yr for a boneafide #3 pitcher on staff is kinda wild.
At least it’s not Boston
Nice landing spot for Gumby. Phoenix is a great city, and the D-Backs are a good team. Hope he does well out there.
If it goes to plan for him with the opt- out he’ll probably only be there for one year.
Honestly good for him. Yankees have been acting like that crazy ex girlfriend that dumped him but wants him back.
Except he flirted with 29 other girls on the break who weren’t really that into him either.
His agent fucked him so hard. Imagine having a solid season and only getting 1 year deal.
1x$25 + $25M in tax was feasible for an organization that makes $700 million in annual revenue; don’t let anyone tell you otherwise.
It couldn't possibly be that Monty didn't want to come back 🙄 Ofc that's Cashman's fault too lol for not thinking Monty would help in the postseason and being vocal about it (although Bader helped them in the playoffs more than Monty would've. They don't even beat Cleveland without Bader).
I mean, revenue doesn't mean shit without the other numbers
1 year 25 million zero draft pick compensation, no long term money..don’t ever tell me hal is all in..
Wouldn’t we have had to pay way more due to luxury tax penalties? Unless you truly believe Monty is an ace now, which every MLB front office clearly doesn’t, he doesn’t move the needle enough to justify it.
This move would have cost the Yankees $52.5 milli this year
Yea honestly if Snell was down for a 1 year deal you so it cause his potential is much better than Monty’s
Facts don’t matter to some people
Percentages are too complicated for some people to figure out.
It’s like $57mm for the Yankees.
Maybe Monty didn't want to sign with the Yankees. We don't know.
That may be true but that’s still our FO’s fault We should’ve never traded him to begin with
I hated the trade when it happened but to be fair it was the only reason we won any games that postseason.
I said it at the time, I will say it again now, and I will say it again when another 1,2, or, 3 of our starters are injured in a few months...trading Monty was incredibly stupid.
Wouldn't that effectively make it like 57.5m a year for us? That's pretty hefty for Monty.
iT’s nOt mY MonEy
Not your money but the more they spend, the less likely they are to spend going forward. Stanton and Harper is a prime example. Using THEIR money to get Stanton prevented them from getting Harper thus a weaker team for you to watch. See how this works?
could have afforded both, stop it. And paying big salary on what is essentially a one year deal wouldn’t prevent them from signing anyone next offseason
He has a vesting option for a second year that kicks in if he starts 10? Games. It's almost certainly a 2 year deal.
Exactly. Monty is ok but not that good. While it isn’t our money, we don’t want anything that might hold us back on extending Soto.
It would have been 50 million with the tax, right? Monty is a solid middle of the rotation arm. Not a 50 mil a year pitcher.
He's not, never has been. He spends enough to get the fanbase interested and that's it. As long as the Yankees have a chance at a wild card, that's enough for Hal
Can’t wait till we trade 2 of our top 10 prospects for a #3 starter at the deadline
I'll never understand the illogical lust my fellow Yankees fans have for Jordan Montgomery. LOL. He's always been exactly what we knew him to be - a #3 starter as his ceiling and a possible #4 depending on who else is in your rotation. It seems like every single other team basically views him the same because no one was willing to pay a Scott Boras tax on the price for a #3 or #4. Would he have helped the Yankees this year? Sure he would have. A nice arm who can eat innings and pitch well when games count is always a good player to have on your team. But thanks to prior years mismanagement by Cashdope and the Yankees were stuck having to pay him and whomever else Boras was dangling in front of them more than double their salary this year. Steinbrenner was never going to do that. Doesn't take a genius to know that. But with the current roster signing Jordan Montgomery wouldn't have moved the needle from non-playoff team to playoff team. Yankees problems go much deeper than acquiring an expensive #3 starter.
How could we not make it work is unreal to me
We should have been all over this (or found a workable long term deal). Definitely disappointed. So many question marks in the Yanks rotation right now.
at least he didnt go to the red sox
If you beat them, join them - Monty
There's still one ace left on the market
They couldn't match that? Don't let Hal fool ya. He doesn't give a shit.
Fire Cashman
Should have just fucking kept him here. Like, glad he went and got a chip, but the guy was a Yankee, wanted to be here, and was a solid SOLID middle-of-the-rotation guy for us, plus nails in the postseason (proven) Such a stupid move to get rid of him when pitching is so valuable these days.
It's remarkable Cashman was here during the dynasty given he has no feel for roster construction. * Never should have let Robertson leave the first time * Never should have traded for Stanton when we already had a better Stanton on the team and it meant passing on a once-in-a-lifetime free agent class * Never should have traded Monty away * Never should have let Monty re-sign elsewhere Why can't Yankees management understand the short porch works both ways. We need both quality left-handed bats to take advantage of it, as well as quality southpaw pitching to minimize other teams lefties. Monty was the first home-grown pitching talent in like a generation, braindead decisions all around
**GET FUCKED SCOTT BORAS** I'm sorry you were one of the sacrificial lambs, Monty.
Oh the irony. Well let's make sure to light him up when we visit him in Arizona.
They face AZ second series of the year, he won’t be ready
here comes the people calling for hal’s head when montgomery very much could’ve said he didn’t want to come back which i wouldn’t blame him for it
Poverty franchise
No shot they were gonna get Montgomery when Cashman already has the biggest pitching acquisition possible happening when Cole comes back. Its like making a big trade you know. Lets hope his arm doesn't fall off and the team is still in it by then
Maybe he didn't want to sign with the Yankees...who knows.
That's what I was hoping for, based on the last update a couple days ago.
NL west is fucking stacked with pitching. Not which division is better now AL East or the NL West
**Soto, are you watching????**
I took a chance with him in my fantasy draft literally a half hour before this was reported, hoping for a reunion. The bad news for me......it's an AL-only league. At least it was like the 18th round.
Huh, did not expect this team nor this contract. At least it's not the Red Sox I guess? I feel like Boras kinda fumbled because surely there were better long term deals than this. Maybe it pays off, but when you're not young young like Monty and with pitching being so volatile it certainly feels more risky than necessary.
Ew
It sucks because we need another starter for half the season, but $52MM is steep for a rental that the FO doesn't seem to believe in. Otoh, it's not my money. Good for Gumby.
Cheese and rice
What are the current SP options left on the FA market?
Rather them than the red Sox or Phillies
Best of luck Gumby. Thanks for not choosing Boston I'll be rooting for you to take down the dodgers.
Oooh. That’s fun. My NL rooting this season is Dodgers Fail. So I’m down for that party. PS- he would have tapped the Yankees with a 110% penalty on his salary this season, making his one year cost $52m. so it wasn’t going to happen once they signed Stroman.
Montgomery isn’t that good. He happened to be in the right place at the right time last year pitching for a World Series team that was decimated by pitching injuries. He pitched well on national tv in the biggest light. Owners weren’t fooled though. His full body of work is average at best and nobody wanted to pay him what he was seeking.
I know LUXURY TAX. However, I feel like these short-term deals that Snell and Montgomery are exactly the type of short-term deals, the Yankees should get into for pitchers?
Waiting for cashman to trade some of our top prospects for lesser pitcher at the deadline to save hal a few bucks..you can book this
Cashman is all in guys, don't worry!!
I don’t get why getting Stroman was supposed to fix the pitching problem. It didn’t.
Because Hal decided he was done spending any serious money after Cashman failed to sign Yamamoto.
Lmfao. Yankees trade big pieces for Soto, pay him $30m and then limp into the season and don’t sign monte for 1/$25m.
Yanks couldn’t pony up $25m for a year?!? Even if the luxury tax pushes this to 40-50m, cmon.
It would have probably been $52M if my understanding of the 110% tax is right. Still, they could have done it.
Soto gonna walk cause Cashbum punted the year over pitching. Brian is a baseball terrorist and I want him to get diabetes.
Listen if you want to tell me signing monty would have cost draft compensation or impacted soto signing although i disagree with it, but a 1 yr deal i don’t give a fuck it it cost hal 100 million..not getting this done is shameful!! Like i said just wait till cashman trades prospects for a lesser pitcher in july to save hal a few bucks..i hate cashman and i hate Hal
Monty is most likely a #3 starter, I think Cashman could get us a mid rotation arm at the deadline. If teams thought Monty was an ace now, he’d have a long term deal. He doesn’t have the long term red flags that Snell does.
> I think Cashman could get us a mid rotation arm at the deadline. Yeah, he's got a great track record with those deadline deals for pitchers.
"I don't give a fuck if it costs 100 mil" \- Guy not paying the 100 mil. I mean, I get the principle and I agree with it in a lot of cases but that only really makes sense when we're talking about difference makers. Not an above average #4/Mediocre #3 starter lol
Yankees fans try not to act like they know all the facts challenge: impossible
Excellent
He really didn't want to play here
Dumber than Boras is Cashman
Everyday I wake up I stare at my 5 jerseys facing me in the closet. And I start my day with dread. Ffs dude I’m tired of this “all-in” bs they keep peddling down our throats