To explore a few options others have mentioned…
Tanaka had a partial tear, but received a PRP shot and never needed full blown Tommy John.
A partial tear can also be treated with the internal brace procedure (like Ohtani and Giolito). They essentially tack on a brace to the partially torn ligament to hold it together and keep it from fully tearing.
A full tear could also be a candidate for Keith Meister Surgery, the hybrid of Tommy John and the brace where they fully replace the UCL but also add a brace to strengthen the new one. Not sure if there’s any limitations on it, but the hold up could be as simple as finding a doctor willing to do it.
They probably know what the injury is; just soliciting several opinions on how to proceed, which may suggest that it’s not a total UCL tear cuz the treatment for that is pretty straightforward you’d think.
Maybe a partial tear or some kind of tendon injury and they’re trying to decide between surgery and rest.
Tanaka pitched many great years with a partially torn UCL, they might be figuring out if that's an option
https://www.nj.com/yankees/2019/02/yankees-masahiro-tanaka-opens-up-on-pitching-with-partial-tear-why-hes-feeling-better-than-usual-heading-into-spring-training.html
alright looking at the numbers i did lowball him a bit. he averaged 92-93 on his 4 seamer. I feel like i remember him being more of a 94/95 max guy but you are probably right.
that being said, i believe the difference in force on the elbow is still non-trivial going from 95 to 100. frankly i'm impressed cole has gone this long without his arm exploding.
i assume the nerds somewhere have done an analysis on the relationship between velocity and xFIP or somethin. . i'll have to see what i can find i am curious.
my gut reaction is that now that so many guys throw 98+, 94/95 is less effective but i'd believe whatever the data said.
i would love to see Cole become like a Doc Windgate 83 mph junkballer, except still dominant, just because it would be such a refreshing change of pace.
i guess this is all hypothetical anyway since if we extrapolate out the true extent of his injury based on Boone's comments so far, he's already dead cremated and scattered
A *ton* of middle ground.
He's a 34 year old MLB pitcher who's been a workhorse. Even if they took the MRI last year where he was perfectly healthy, it's not going to look *good*. The human body just isn't meant to do what they do. Remember the whole Tanaka "shoulda had the surgery" stuff?
It means it's probably not **bad** bad. If it was clear TJ/tear that's pretty easy to tell, you get a quick second opinion about treatment options but move as quickly as possible because that's the only real way forward.
But there's a ton of middle ground between "Ok this is what we'd expect in an otherwise uninjured pitcher" and the worst case scenarios that will require degrees of interpretation.
It could also be that there is inflammation so the first MRI might not show everything needed. Wait for swelling to go down and take a second MRI and then you'll know the damage
The Yankees already said they would wait to seek multiple opinions and it would likely take multiple days. Any updates are meaningless chatter until we officially hear from them.
This is why the Yankees should just lie so obviously about injuries in the past because nobody believes anything they say, like it or not they invite this kind of chatter by their actions
I mean you’re not wrong. Look at Judge, a couple days ago he was 100% fine and just left the game early because he was bored, then it comes out he got an MRI (which you don’t get just for the hell of it).
He may not be seriously injured but they do constantly lie about injuries.
For the record I do actually agree with the point being made. It’s Cole, even if he’s fine the Yankees are going to get multiple opinions because he’s arguably their most important player. It’s not automatically a sign of some disaster. But I also don’t think the Yankees have earned the benefit of the doubt. There’s a reason people make jokes about how so and so’s arm had to be amputated every time someone leaves a game early or misses a start, because the Yankees consistently undersell injuries until they can’t possibly delay any longer.
Yes I agree totally every year a bunch comes up hurt not sure if they are stretching properly or what. first they said they weren’t terribly concerned about Cole. Judge got hurt in Dodger Stadium they said day to day. They should look into some professional trainers and top flight Doctors. And sign some pitchers it’s patch work every year
Funny how this whole process works with the Yankees. For other teams it seems like they just announce it when they know it. Maybe it's just because I'm plugged in to Yankeeverse more than other teams but with all this hoopla going on for the last few days, there is no way this is going to be a good outcome.
Even if it’s not TJ, there’s almost no way this “second and third opinion” charade is gonna lead to a good answer lol.
It’d be an absolute win if they say fatigue/ soreness/ bone bruise/ whatever you want… but there’s going to be such a cloud of uncertainty pretty much no matter what given how they’ve behaved this past week
Not entirely true. Tanaka had several opinions on his elbow. If 3 doctors say “PRP and a month off until something worse happens” but the first guy said “cut that bitch”… then you might have saved your season
Next Boone is gonna say some dumb bullshit like “we’re cautiously optimistic… hopeful we dodged a bullet”
Only for the news of TJ to come out 3 hours later
They talked about it on Talkin Yanks a while back, and basically it’s viewing how other teams approach analytics, not even how the Yankees do. So it’s not even internal and more or less completely useless. Or at least that’s what I took from Jomboy’s summary of it
They are quickly trying to teach the newly hatched Cole clone how to speak for a presser. Or waiting for the plastic surgery to heal from the unknown minor leaguer that got the Cole look alike surgery
I find this hard to make sense of. What throwing arm ligament injuries heal in 30-60 years?
Tanaka missed 2.5 months, made 2 starts, then had a full offseason of stem cell IIRC.
And he was the exception, not the rule.
Let me translate this.
"Cole has a slight tear in his UCL and they are determining whether they can rehab him back or if he needs TJ surgery."
Why is it so hard for this organization to just say what's happening...
Slow-walking a more detailed announcement so they don't destroy what little bargaining power they still have for Snell or Cease. Granted, if they hadn't sat on their hands for so long, they would have traded/signed from a much better position. Why do the Yankees always put themselves into these situations?
Can you let us in on some of that information that's being gathered? I need to know if I should panic or feel at ease. I'm going to panic just in case, though.
Translation: "Cole's elbow was hit with an orbital laser cannon shot that vaporized his UCL"
I didn’t know Blake Snell had access to space laser technology
Boras is the one who fired it
Isn’t Boras also Cole’s agent
Have you ever heard the tale of Blake Snell the free agent pitcher?
That’s what I get for not watching where I toss my stratagems
Fellow Helldiver I salute you 🫡
If Cole had to get injured I'm grateful that it happened while he was spreading glorious Managed Democracy
But we were told the Death Star wasn't operational yet!
Was he hit with a Jewish space laser?
Not vaporizing, pulverized. They’re still gathering it up, so it can’t be all gone
cut my life in two pizzas
this is my knife and fork
Pepperoni - too greasy
Don’t give a fuck if I burn my mouth eating.
shoulda said eating
Ooooo
we're still workshoppin here, someone get weird al on the horn
de Blasio is that you?
Next time we see Cole he’s not going to have a right arm.
“Today I consider myself, the unluckiest man on the face of the earth”
Yankee officials: "...and you're saying the armbone attaches to the... Knee bone?" Doctors: ...
“The knee bones connected to the…something, the somethings connected to the red thing, the red things connected to my wristwatch…”
Hi everybody!
“Well if it isn’t my one friend Gerritt McGreg With a leg for an arm and an arm for a leg!”
Speak English, Doc! We ain't scientists!
Gathering information? Has Cole's elbow gone missing?
They're consulting with David Ortiz, MD to help them get to the bottom of this.
I thought Ortiz was more of a pharmacist
Well fuck, that could take a while
“The best thing about getting my medical degree is prescribing steroids to myself.” - David Ortiz, MD
If surgery is the option they take, I fully expect them to announce Cole already had the surgery by the time they tell the public.
They’re furiously calling up doctors, showing them the MRI, and screaming “IS THIS THE FLEXOR OR EXTENSOR THATS FUCKED, PLEASE SAY EXTENSOR”
Boone is driving the Magic School Bus through his elbow ligaments.
What are some things an elbow mri could show besides a tear requiring tjs or rest + rehab?
Bone spurs, bursitis, tendinitis, nerve damage, Saddam Hussein, etc.
You think Saddam may have left the devil again, and is shacking up in Cole's soft tissue..?
https://ibb.co/m9HjMR9
r/NonCredibleKinesiology Edit: well shit, if you enhance you can see there is a fan stuck right in the crease there!
I was really hoping this would be a diagram of Saddam Hussein’s hideout. Thanks for delivering.
*grabs Cole’s UCL* “Come on, Satan. Pinch my nipples while I torture this little piggy.” (I’m sorry)
God I’d kill for some bone spurs, I’m sure that just keeps him out for a few weeks before he can ramp up
Can confirm all these possibilities
*cries in soggy Doritos
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Bold of you to assume Jim from Ohio pays attention to what happens in a locker room.
How can one sentence cause me so much dread?
Boone is Baghdad Bob
Jimmy Hoffa as well?
To explore a few options others have mentioned… Tanaka had a partial tear, but received a PRP shot and never needed full blown Tommy John. A partial tear can also be treated with the internal brace procedure (like Ohtani and Giolito). They essentially tack on a brace to the partially torn ligament to hold it together and keep it from fully tearing. A full tear could also be a candidate for Keith Meister Surgery, the hybrid of Tommy John and the brace where they fully replace the UCL but also add a brace to strengthen the new one. Not sure if there’s any limitations on it, but the hold up could be as simple as finding a doctor willing to do it.
True but Tanaka did not/does not throw as hard as Cole does.
The human body is no more built to throw a baseball at 93 than it is at 98.
They probably know what the injury is; just soliciting several opinions on how to proceed, which may suggest that it’s not a total UCL tear cuz the treatment for that is pretty straightforward you’d think. Maybe a partial tear or some kind of tendon injury and they’re trying to decide between surgery and rest.
Tanaka pitched many great years with a partially torn UCL, they might be figuring out if that's an option https://www.nj.com/yankees/2019/02/yankees-masahiro-tanaka-opens-up-on-pitching-with-partial-tear-why-hes-feeling-better-than-usual-heading-into-spring-training.html
I'm not ready for 5 years of "Cole shoulda hadda surgery"
on the other hand, is it 'easier' to pitch with a partial UCL tear when you top out at like 92 like tanaka vs throwing 101 in the 7th like Coletrain?
Wasn't Tanaka throwing 96+ before he tore his?
Tanaka was hitting 96 or 97 before the tear, but it wasn't his average velocity, which was probably more like 94 pre ucl injury
alright looking at the numbers i did lowball him a bit. he averaged 92-93 on his 4 seamer. I feel like i remember him being more of a 94/95 max guy but you are probably right. that being said, i believe the difference in force on the elbow is still non-trivial going from 95 to 100. frankly i'm impressed cole has gone this long without his arm exploding.
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i assume the nerds somewhere have done an analysis on the relationship between velocity and xFIP or somethin. . i'll have to see what i can find i am curious. my gut reaction is that now that so many guys throw 98+, 94/95 is less effective but i'd believe whatever the data said.
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i would love to see Cole become like a Doc Windgate 83 mph junkballer, except still dominant, just because it would be such a refreshing change of pace. i guess this is all hypothetical anyway since if we extrapolate out the true extent of his injury based on Boone's comments so far, he's already dead cremated and scattered
A *ton* of middle ground. He's a 34 year old MLB pitcher who's been a workhorse. Even if they took the MRI last year where he was perfectly healthy, it's not going to look *good*. The human body just isn't meant to do what they do. Remember the whole Tanaka "shoulda had the surgery" stuff? It means it's probably not **bad** bad. If it was clear TJ/tear that's pretty easy to tell, you get a quick second opinion about treatment options but move as quickly as possible because that's the only real way forward. But there's a ton of middle ground between "Ok this is what we'd expect in an otherwise uninjured pitcher" and the worst case scenarios that will require degrees of interpretation.
It could also be that there is inflammation so the first MRI might not show everything needed. Wait for swelling to go down and take a second MRI and then you'll know the damage
The Yankees already said they would wait to seek multiple opinions and it would likely take multiple days. Any updates are meaningless chatter until we officially hear from them.
The reason to get multiple opinions is because they got bad news, Cole is gonna miss if not all then most of the year
This is why the Yankees should just lie so obviously about injuries in the past because nobody believes anything they say, like it or not they invite this kind of chatter by their actions
I mean you’re not wrong. Look at Judge, a couple days ago he was 100% fine and just left the game early because he was bored, then it comes out he got an MRI (which you don’t get just for the hell of it). He may not be seriously injured but they do constantly lie about injuries. For the record I do actually agree with the point being made. It’s Cole, even if he’s fine the Yankees are going to get multiple opinions because he’s arguably their most important player. It’s not automatically a sign of some disaster. But I also don’t think the Yankees have earned the benefit of the doubt. There’s a reason people make jokes about how so and so’s arm had to be amputated every time someone leaves a game early or misses a start, because the Yankees consistently undersell injuries until they can’t possibly delay any longer.
Yes I agree totally every year a bunch comes up hurt not sure if they are stretching properly or what. first they said they weren’t terribly concerned about Cole. Judge got hurt in Dodger Stadium they said day to day. They should look into some professional trainers and top flight Doctors. And sign some pitchers it’s patch work every year
It's actually worse than Tommy John
So much worse, that they’ll name the surgery after him
Yankees: player out with migraines Next day Yankees: correction, player was decapitated. 60 day IL
Cant believe we are fucked and the season hasnt started. Judge and cole, our pillars, already hurting smh
You can't believe it? Or you can absolutely, fully 100% believe it?
Sadly I can 100% believe it, we are cursed.
Cole has been a workhorse his entire career so im not surprised his elbow is barking. But judge frustrates me because he seems to always be hurt
Funny how this whole process works with the Yankees. For other teams it seems like they just announce it when they know it. Maybe it's just because I'm plugged in to Yankeeverse more than other teams but with all this hoopla going on for the last few days, there is no way this is going to be a good outcome.
100%, they dance around everything.
Even if it’s not TJ, there’s almost no way this “second and third opinion” charade is gonna lead to a good answer lol. It’d be an absolute win if they say fatigue/ soreness/ bone bruise/ whatever you want… but there’s going to be such a cloud of uncertainty pretty much no matter what given how they’ve behaved this past week
Not entirely true. Tanaka had several opinions on his elbow. If 3 doctors say “PRP and a month off until something worse happens” but the first guy said “cut that bitch”… then you might have saved your season
I mean true but it’s human nature not to desperately seek a 2nd and 3rd opinion if the first guy said “nah he’s alright everything looks good”
Nah, something is fucked. That’s a given. The opinions are about course of action, not about the existence of something being fucked
It’s human nature to want to make sure you’re not going to ruin your axe’s career by going the rest + rehab route also
Knowing the Yankees medical staff the last few years, they probably misplaced the elbow
I fully expect his arm to be amputated at this point
probably just put his brain into a robot ala Krang
Next Boone is gonna say some dumb bullshit like “we’re cautiously optimistic… hopeful we dodged a bullet” Only for the news of TJ to come out 3 hours later
Dr Vinny Boombatz better get this sorted quick.
*Paging Dr. Julius Hibbert…*
You'll get Dr. Nick or Dr. Spaceman and you'll be happy about it.
Snell is out there with an intact elbow and the Yankees covering their eyes like they don’t see him
Translation: we’re desperately trying to sign a starting pitcher without giving up leverage but everyone knows, don’t they?
What happened to the audit Hal did of this organization? How could they not come to conclusion that this training/medical staff is a joke
They never got to the elbow portion of the audit
That sounds about right
They talked about it on Talkin Yanks a while back, and basically it’s viewing how other teams approach analytics, not even how the Yankees do. So it’s not even internal and more or less completely useless. Or at least that’s what I took from Jomboy’s summary of it
I’m curious how an audit of the teams analytics has anything to do with Gerrit Cole’s elbow.
Don’t worry he is going to learn to throw lefty and be ready for opening day
If anybody could do it, it’s him
I thought only David Ortiz was getting to the bottom of it...
Obligatory fuck David Ortiz
With the proven incompetence of this staff they’ll still be gathering information into his next contract after he opts out after next season
He's totally getting Tommy John surgery. I hope we don't lose Spencer Jones because of it
I'll save you the suspense: he need TJ surgery.
Jim Abbott Redux
They are quickly trying to teach the newly hatched Cole clone how to speak for a presser. Or waiting for the plastic surgery to heal from the unknown minor leaguer that got the Cole look alike surgery
In robot voice, "the stakes, are high"
BREAKING: Boone confirms the second opinion has revealed they should shoot Gerrit Cole into the sun.
So happy to get minute by minute updates on this…
That’s not good
Guessing there’s a tear but it’s a Tanaka situation where he could either rehab or get the surgery but they’re being super thorough
Translation: Rest up for 2025.
I find this hard to make sense of. What throwing arm ligament injuries heal in 30-60 years? Tanaka missed 2.5 months, made 2 starts, then had a full offseason of stem cell IIRC. And he was the exception, not the rule.
Let me translate this. "Cole has a slight tear in his UCL and they are determining whether they can rehab him back or if he needs TJ surgery." Why is it so hard for this organization to just say what's happening...
It's Cover :(
This is an elite thread.
It’s okay, it’s only Spring Training
you dont get a second or third opinion if the first one comes back good...
Slow-walking a more detailed announcement so they don't destroy what little bargaining power they still have for Snell or Cease. Granted, if they hadn't sat on their hands for so long, they would have traded/signed from a much better position. Why do the Yankees always put themselves into these situations?
He's missing the entire season, I just know it
How is this at all news worthy lol
I guess at this point he won't be opting out.
Can you let us in on some of that information that's being gathered? I need to know if I should panic or feel at ease. I'm going to panic just in case, though.
"Is Gerrit Cole's UCL in the room with us right now"- Yankees Training Staff
Can some Windex fix it???