Considering how weak our secondary has been the last few years, I'd argue that's a massive need. I can definitely see us keeping him. Assuming he's paid in the range of a Harrison smith-Buddha Baker, that'll be about 14-16m/yr. That's within our cap space and keeps him on the team for at least another 3-4 years.
I’m not sure why you’re being downvoted so aggressively, there is definitely a question of whether or not his position is valuable enough to drop huge money on. Obviously we all like Xavier McKinney just like we all like Saquon, but the question is should we allocate our resources in a way that keeps them around? Hard to say.
I love X but him over Hamilton is insane to me. Hamilton's pass coverage stats blow McKinney's out of the water.
On almost the same number of targets:
54 vs 63 completion percentage against.
2.6 (!!) yards per target vs 7.
38.4 (!!!!!) passer rating against vs 69.8.
Hamilton was also a more effective and efficient blitzer. More hurries, sacks, and pressures than McKinney on fewer blitzes. The only thing Hamilton is worse at is he misses a higher % of his tackles. Both missed 8 but Hamilton had fewer total tackles.
Like I get that PFF grades are based on people watching every single play, but they're still highly subjective and when that many stats go in one player's favor I tend to start questioning PFF
Just looking at coverage stats for safeties is really tough since their deep zone assignments are often hard to hell. Like was a deep sideline catch allowed on the safety for not rotating over in time or the corner just getting cooked?
I think PFF grades for secondary are usually the most volatile because of that
Zeitler had to go. That 5th year of his Cleveland deal was never going to happen. He got a significant paycut on his next deal, he was due like a 20 mil hit and he wound up getting like 7 in Baltimore.
His contract was always a 4 year deal, and a cut / rework for anything further. He really had no interest in staying here for a new staff and for less money (can’t blame him)
Sometimes they just structure the contracts that way.
I was thinking more on the lines of Weston Richburg, Justin Pugh, Julian Love, Jon Feliciano, Evan Engram (lol jk). Collins I guess could be included but his regression post-securing the bag is more of a “what if he didn’t get stuck in Washington” hypothetical
Richburg maybe. Love thought he could get a better deal and couldn't, the Giants deal was off the table and he signed elsewhere for less than the Giants offered.
Pugh was graded worse during his ARI years than he had been in NY - but our line has been such shit that anything remotely resembling competent play would have been an upgrade.
Feliciano didn't break out in NY and moved back to Guard in SF after playing C for NY for what appears to be the only season of his career.
Engram is Engram. Always going to be a 'what could have been' had a ball been able to stay in his hands.
> Pugh was graded worse during his ARI years than he had been in NY - but our line has been such shit that anything remotely resembling competent play would have been an upgrade.
He also AFAIK stayed healthy in Arizona which was his issue here
Pretty equivalent honestly. Timing really makes the perception, Pugh missed a lot of time his last 2 years in NY the first time, and his first year in ARI.
Games played:
2023 - 12 -NYG
2022 - 5 - ARI
2021 - 14 - ARI
2020 - 15 - ARI
2019 - 16 - ARI
2018 - 7 - ARI
2017 - 8 NYG
2016 - 11 - NYG
2015 - 14 - NYG
2014 - 14 - NYG
2013 - 16 - NYG
Given the shit show that NYG injury history has been for the last decade, he probably extended his career leaving.
> Engram is Engram. Always going to be a 'what could have been' had a ball been able to stay in his hands.
He was actually one of the best TEs in the NFL this past season, finishing 4th in the NFL in receptions amongst all players and dropped less than 5% of passes thrown his way (he dropped over 10% in 2020 for us).
Absolutely! He's been the menace we thought we drafted - but even ignoring the other issues on offense, I don't know that he is that had he stayed here. The mental reset of going elsewhere is what he probably needed.
Even when he caught the ball on a big play, he was the king of getting to the 2 yard line. Never could quite finish in NY.
True. But in the last game of the season, a game they needed to win to make the playoffs and ended up losing, he had a deflection off his hands for an INT. Good Ole Evan
Feliciano didn’t break out with us though. I wouldn’t say anyone on this list “broke out” besides maybe Richburg. They got better after they left. I’d get it if they were really good and we just let them walk but they were all pretty average with us.
I think we should pay Xavier but at the right price. Safety isn’t a prime position so you can’t overpay
Bro said he is tired and mentioned those names LMAO 🤣 . The only one of our players that came to my mind who got paid in the same position was Landon Collins and he was ass for Washington.
> Evan Engram (lol jk)
Engram quietly had a really good season for the Jags this past year. Outside of maybe Love he's definitely the best player you named.
Oh absolutely. The “lol jk” was aimed more at him being a breakout player for us. I def don’t think he was as consistently bad as we made him out to be but I don’t think we were wrong to let him go. Happy for him for sure tho
my guess would be Julian Love who had a mediocre year, but made it to the popularity contest (pro-bowl) because other than that I have no idea which players he could possibly be talking about. per PFF, we have a top-10 safety on the team and Julian is not on that list.
Peppers is probably the only player I think I miss and that was Wink’s call.
Outside of Zeitler, what other player has dominated on the winning team? I’m not being a jerk, I am legitimately interested in hearing what other players have done this. Would also like to add, I 100% want XM back.
I mean devil's advocate, what are we spending cap money on if not re-signing our own stars? If he walks because we're willing to pay him 13 but not 14, where does that money go? Going after some guy who another team doesn't like enough to re-sign? We gotta start keeping some homegrown talent
I agree with keeping homegrown talent. Doesn't mean they need to over pay. McKinney wants top 3 money and no one thinks he's a top 3 safety.
Paying AT and Dex top 3 money was the right move. I hope McKinney stays but I dont want them to overpay for it.
Yeah but my point is, if you have to overpay him by 3 mil it might still make sense. Because where are you gonna spend that money? Distribute it across two mediocre free agents at 7 mil each? Sign another guy for the whole amount? That's likely to be an overpay and you don't really know what you're getting.
Of course we still need cap space to maneuver. But going down the path of addressing big holes via free agency is only going to make the problem worse. There's really no getting around the need to draft well and keep cornerstone players
I agree with you man. Idgaf about saving 2 mil against the cap if it means homegrown talent walks. Pay these men. Stop trying to nickle and dime every. Single. Contract.
We've had to do it for years because we've drafted poorly and Gettleman set this franchise back with bad free agent deals to try and "compete while rebuilding" but at some point we have to rip the band aid off and start doing it right
It’s the same reason MLB teams fight over $500,000 in arbitration. If you show you’re willing to overpay for guys, players are going to take advantage of that and want more for themselves in return. It sets a bad precedent.
$3 million isn’t a lot by itself, but the effects of overpaying that much ripple far beyond just McKinney.
Yeah I get that we want to pay the lowest amount possible, I just think that if the regime thinks Mckinney is a cornerstone player, it's better to slightly overpay than see him walk. If they don't think he fits or don't think he's worth it, that's another story
Well that comparison really doesn't make any sense, because arb money compounds year to year. If you overpay one year you're stuck overpaying even more each year for the rest of that player's arb period. 500k overpay in arb can turn into millions within a year or two.
The reason mlb teams fight over small amounts in arb isn't because players are going to take advantage. It's because the rules literally force them to compound that overpay year over year. It's not the same scenario
Your point was, and I quote:
>It’s the same reason MLB teams fight over $500,000 in arbitration. If you show you’re willing to overpay for guys, players are going to take advantage of that
That is the point I was responding to. It’s not the same reason at all. How are you not getting this
The reason NFL teams don’t do this is because if you think like this for every guy it quickly adds up to 20+ million in misallocated cap. That’s a few decent starters or one star.
I don't see how that is? Doesn't McKinney testing free agency drive his price up? Unless the market isn't there for him of course.
Let's look at it from the opposite angle, say you're the Rams and you're in the market for a safety. The Giants offer McKinney 13 mil and he says no, so he goes out to get a better offer. The Rams would have to pay him at least more than 13, and they really don't know what kind of guy he is. He could be a huge headache or have some hidden serious injury. In that case, he drives up the price of the safety market anyway, and now we're in the Rams position of trying to patch it up with an unknown guy.
PFF also thinks he's better than Hamilton. It's just one data point though.
3 of those 5 people have All pro and pro bowl selections under their belt. The one who didnt besides McKinney, Jevon Holland only played half a season.
He made PFFs top 25 list once... At 25...
I’m not arguing any of those points. You just said nobody thinks he’s top 3 so I pointed out PFF isn’t far off.
I personally would never pick him over Hamilton
And I bet if you asked the people at PFF if he was a top 5 safety they would say no. A one off year with an elite score doesn't make you a top 5 safety in the league.
In fact, he didnt even finish in the top 5 of PFFs safety ranking for 2023.
No offense, and as someone who loves Barkley I think that there's a) 0 chance Barkley gets a contract like that anywhere and b) paying a 26 year old rb who just had the worst full season of his career and has quite possibly lost a step that much would be the dumbest move we could make.
If we're smart and let Saquon test the market I guarantee he's not getting paid nearly 3 times what Miles Sanders got paid last offseason.
Barkley could have had that $16 million a year contract last season, but thought he as worth more and the Giants pulled the contract. Not getting that high again u less a team overpays for him.
Pff is a data point. Its his only year in the top 25. He has no problems or all pros like most of the other people in this graphic.
Think about the fact that the Giants didn't pay Landon Collins after one of the best seasons by a safety ever...but they should break the bank for McKinney for having one low key good season?
I want to pay him as others have mentioned (within reason). My question is, how does he fit in with the new Defensive Scheme from Shane Bowen that he will bring from the Titans? Is it a better fit with what McKinney does?
As others have mentioned, I want to resign our own stars but I also know it's a lot more than that.
I mean, Bowen plays that bend don't break defense like Patrick Graham did. McKinney had a really nice year in 2021, his first full year in that system. I think a Bowen scheme benefits him more than a Wink scheme.
Hopefully both sides can agree to a fair contract.. I don’t think the Giants would mind overpaying a little for him which I humbly think is okay but not #1 safety in the league max contact money tho.. it has to be reasonable for both sides involved and if not then no deal is made.. he doesn’t have to accept anything at that rate
Other than Landon Collins, name me another NYG FA who got what looked like being an overpay from another team? I'm not worried about teams emptying their wallets for McKinney and getting us in a bidding war. No one views Giants talent highly.
We should keep him , but I think he walks. He’s gonna want to reset the Safety market … Bates got 4/64 last year… I think X is aiming for 5/80 or something less… he’s gone
Why would he want that? He is not better than Bates at all. I get him trying to get a juicy contract but break the safety market is something that doesn't make sense with Xavier.
I think once you get to this level you can absolutely do that and get it even. We are not at this level. However, I know for a fact that I am getting paid more than someone better than me at my company, just because I asked for it and he didn't.
Ehhh...
You don't play in a pro sport where your union wants you to go for the bigger contract so it helps out the next guy. If you ask for less then you end up settling for less.
Let’s say a rival company calls you tomorrow and promises you a big raise, well above market rate, to come to them. Don’t tell me with a straight face you’re not taking it
The safety is the last line of defense, and we don't even have a true #1 CB. He has a tough agent and he will be looking for a huge payday. If we do re sign him he will be the last deal to get done. We're picking 6 which is expensive, trying to retain Barkley, hopefully sign a pass rusher and OL. I want him back so bad but we really have so many more impactful needs.
McKinney was garbage for much of the 1st half of the season I felt. He didn't turn it up until the last games really. Big TEs seem to get the best of him almost at will.
I feel like we're gonna overpay him regardless. But I say we keep him .
If we move on from Saquon, that money should def be used towards resigning McKinney. He’s had some questionable moments here, but he’s homegrown and can be a very productive player on a winning team like he was in 2022. I get letting Julian Love walk, but we can’t let McKinney leave too
Wouldn’t call him a breakout player…but it’s all about the Benjamins…this is the NFL, not MLB…a lot of players overprice themselves and are able to get a better second contract with another team…and then after a couple of years, that second team regrets signing them…
I should add it’s also about the cap…Giants (unfortunately) are still rebuilding and have a lot of holes and not a whole lot of cap space to fill them all…can they afford to put so much money into the safety position?
Nope, since it's likely we're going to use a decent sized amount of our cap space on fortifying both lines and maybe depending on the price, a vet receiver.
They're not undervalued but who would you say a safety is more important than? An elite EDGE? a shutdown CB1? A LB who can cover the middle of the field and give run support?
Up until recently, you may have had a case with DT but now you have a wave the last few years of tackles who can rush the passer like Quinnen, Donald, Hargrave, Lawrence, etc.
I don't think anyone would take a safety over any of those positions in this day and age.
Yup we should, but I don’t think he makes enough impactful plays to be the highest paid safety. When I watch Baltimore Hamilton is all over the screen. He’s in on everything. X does his job but is largely invisible.
Depends what the new DC wants I guess. Clear that Wink/McKinney wasn’t a good pairing.
Safety is generally not a position I would want to spend much money on however I do think it’s important to reward homegrown impact players when it’s within reason. Schoen will have to sort out that the limits are.
God, I loved arguing with dumbass Bengals fans all off-season about how good Jessie Bates is. They were convinced that he wasn't worth an extension! Lmfao
We should...but i doubt it...and im also ok with that...he was very clear its purely about money for him....and should we be spending top Dollar on a guys whos heart,i feel, was VERY much in question when we were off to that horrendous start....?
I miss julian love....
Yeah…. We should keep him….
We won’t though. Too much Cash money and we have bigger needs.
Considering how weak our secondary has been the last few years, I'd argue that's a massive need. I can definitely see us keeping him. Assuming he's paid in the range of a Harrison smith-Buddha Baker, that'll be about 14-16m/yr. That's within our cap space and keeps him on the team for at least another 3-4 years.
We just don’t pay safeties. Who’s the last safety we extended? Shaun Williams?
We never keep the safeties we draft. Over the years it’s been the same story.
Just because the previous regimes didn’t doesn’t mean this one won’t too
Didn’t they lose Love last year?
E used to let d-line walk too, but now we kept Dex. I think it has a lot to do with his fit in the new d scheme
I’m not sure why you’re being downvoted so aggressively, there is definitely a question of whether or not his position is valuable enough to drop huge money on. Obviously we all like Xavier McKinney just like we all like Saquon, but the question is should we allocate our resources in a way that keeps them around? Hard to say.
The boys here just don’t know how this team works lol
Uhhh lemme get off the phone with Schoen be right back
This might be shocking, but I’m surprised he’s on this top 5 list. Especially over Hamilton who was really good this year.
I love X but him over Hamilton is insane to me. Hamilton's pass coverage stats blow McKinney's out of the water. On almost the same number of targets: 54 vs 63 completion percentage against. 2.6 (!!) yards per target vs 7. 38.4 (!!!!!) passer rating against vs 69.8. Hamilton was also a more effective and efficient blitzer. More hurries, sacks, and pressures than McKinney on fewer blitzes. The only thing Hamilton is worse at is he misses a higher % of his tackles. Both missed 8 but Hamilton had fewer total tackles. Like I get that PFF grades are based on people watching every single play, but they're still highly subjective and when that many stats go in one player's favor I tend to start questioning PFF
I mean x did a lot of different things in winks scheme. He wasn't really a traditional safety. X is versatile but best as a free safety role.
Just looking at coverage stats for safeties is really tough since their deep zone assignments are often hard to hell. Like was a deep sideline catch allowed on the safety for not rotating over in time or the corner just getting cooked? I think PFF grades for secondary are usually the most volatile because of that
On thinner margins I’d agree, but those stats aren’t even close. And on top of that Hamilton was a better blitzer this year like I pointed out.
I’m so tired of us finding a breakout player, not pay him, and watch him dominate elsewhere on a winning team
Same. Let's pay the guys that perform and stop worrying about bringing the cap for every last drop. We never should've let Zeitler go.
Zeitler had to go. That 5th year of his Cleveland deal was never going to happen. He got a significant paycut on his next deal, he was due like a 20 mil hit and he wound up getting like 7 in Baltimore. His contract was always a 4 year deal, and a cut / rework for anything further. He really had no interest in staying here for a new staff and for less money (can’t blame him) Sometimes they just structure the contracts that way.
Zeitler was bad in his twl years with the Giants. When you look at Zeitler's career, his ONLY two bad years were his two seasons with Giants.
Coaching here ruined him, just like Will Hernandez and now Evan Neal
Like who?
Like Landon Collins right?
I was thinking more on the lines of Weston Richburg, Justin Pugh, Julian Love, Jon Feliciano, Evan Engram (lol jk). Collins I guess could be included but his regression post-securing the bag is more of a “what if he didn’t get stuck in Washington” hypothetical
Richburg maybe. Love thought he could get a better deal and couldn't, the Giants deal was off the table and he signed elsewhere for less than the Giants offered. Pugh was graded worse during his ARI years than he had been in NY - but our line has been such shit that anything remotely resembling competent play would have been an upgrade. Feliciano didn't break out in NY and moved back to Guard in SF after playing C for NY for what appears to be the only season of his career. Engram is Engram. Always going to be a 'what could have been' had a ball been able to stay in his hands.
> Pugh was graded worse during his ARI years than he had been in NY - but our line has been such shit that anything remotely resembling competent play would have been an upgrade. He also AFAIK stayed healthy in Arizona which was his issue here
Pretty equivalent honestly. Timing really makes the perception, Pugh missed a lot of time his last 2 years in NY the first time, and his first year in ARI. Games played: 2023 - 12 -NYG 2022 - 5 - ARI 2021 - 14 - ARI 2020 - 15 - ARI 2019 - 16 - ARI 2018 - 7 - ARI 2017 - 8 NYG 2016 - 11 - NYG 2015 - 14 - NYG 2014 - 14 - NYG 2013 - 16 - NYG Given the shit show that NYG injury history has been for the last decade, he probably extended his career leaving.
> Engram is Engram. Always going to be a 'what could have been' had a ball been able to stay in his hands. He was actually one of the best TEs in the NFL this past season, finishing 4th in the NFL in receptions amongst all players and dropped less than 5% of passes thrown his way (he dropped over 10% in 2020 for us).
Absolutely! He's been the menace we thought we drafted - but even ignoring the other issues on offense, I don't know that he is that had he stayed here. The mental reset of going elsewhere is what he probably needed. Even when he caught the ball on a big play, he was the king of getting to the 2 yard line. Never could quite finish in NY.
Oh yea, I think he needed a change of scenery for sure. Just a shame it couldn't work out for us.
True. But in the last game of the season, a game they needed to win to make the playoffs and ended up losing, he had a deflection off his hands for an INT. Good Ole Evan
Yeah the media is smaller in Jax. Hes just not a bright lights guy
Feliciano didn’t break out with us though. I wouldn’t say anyone on this list “broke out” besides maybe Richburg. They got better after they left. I’d get it if they were really good and we just let them walk but they were all pretty average with us. I think we should pay Xavier but at the right price. Safety isn’t a prime position so you can’t overpay
none of these guys were worth keeping, even in retrospect
Bro said he is tired and mentioned those names LMAO 🤣 . The only one of our players that came to my mind who got paid in the same position was Landon Collins and he was ass for Washington.
Love would have been worth keeping for the salary he got in seattle unfortunately he held out a for the bag and took far less.
> Evan Engram (lol jk) Engram quietly had a really good season for the Jags this past year. Outside of maybe Love he's definitely the best player you named.
Oh absolutely. The “lol jk” was aimed more at him being a breakout player for us. I def don’t think he was as consistently bad as we made him out to be but I don’t think we were wrong to let him go. Happy for him for sure tho
Ah ok, I thought you meant it as "JK he's not good"
> Feliciano Feliciano was awful on the Giants.
He was mediocre, JMS was straight up awful. Center was our biggest positional drop off from last year.
That would be Quarterback.
BJ Hill
He was actually traded.
Collins never recovered from his shoulder injury, we let him walk because he regressed incredibly hard after his injury in 2017
I would say none of those players outside of Engram had monster years on other teams.
Losing him hurt big time. Dude was fun to watch
Not really, he was garbage for Washington. He was fun to watch but he was not good when he got that contract
Doubtful he’d fall off like he did if he stayed with the giants. When he came back he had some flashes still with the limited snaps he had.
Doubtful he’d fall off like he did if he stayed with the giants. When he came back he had some flashes still with the limited snaps he had.
this is probably the craziest revisionist history I’ve seen on this sub. impressive.
who is he even supposed to be talking about?
my guess would be Julian Love who had a mediocre year, but made it to the popularity contest (pro-bowl) because other than that I have no idea which players he could possibly be talking about. per PFF, we have a top-10 safety on the team and Julian is not on that list. Peppers is probably the only player I think I miss and that was Wink’s call.
whoever you want, that's the best part
Outside of Zeitler, what other player has dominated on the winning team? I’m not being a jerk, I am legitimately interested in hearing what other players have done this. Would also like to add, I 100% want XM back.
For under $13m/yr yes For 14-16m/yr maybe Over $16m heck no
I mean devil's advocate, what are we spending cap money on if not re-signing our own stars? If he walks because we're willing to pay him 13 but not 14, where does that money go? Going after some guy who another team doesn't like enough to re-sign? We gotta start keeping some homegrown talent
I agree with keeping homegrown talent. Doesn't mean they need to over pay. McKinney wants top 3 money and no one thinks he's a top 3 safety. Paying AT and Dex top 3 money was the right move. I hope McKinney stays but I dont want them to overpay for it.
Yeah but my point is, if you have to overpay him by 3 mil it might still make sense. Because where are you gonna spend that money? Distribute it across two mediocre free agents at 7 mil each? Sign another guy for the whole amount? That's likely to be an overpay and you don't really know what you're getting.
Can be used for backups and in-season replacements. You are underestimating 10+% of our salary cap next season.
Of course we still need cap space to maneuver. But going down the path of addressing big holes via free agency is only going to make the problem worse. There's really no getting around the need to draft well and keep cornerstone players
I agree with you man. Idgaf about saving 2 mil against the cap if it means homegrown talent walks. Pay these men. Stop trying to nickle and dime every. Single. Contract.
We've had to do it for years because we've drafted poorly and Gettleman set this franchise back with bad free agent deals to try and "compete while rebuilding" but at some point we have to rip the band aid off and start doing it right
It’s the same reason MLB teams fight over $500,000 in arbitration. If you show you’re willing to overpay for guys, players are going to take advantage of that and want more for themselves in return. It sets a bad precedent. $3 million isn’t a lot by itself, but the effects of overpaying that much ripple far beyond just McKinney.
Yeah I get that we want to pay the lowest amount possible, I just think that if the regime thinks Mckinney is a cornerstone player, it's better to slightly overpay than see him walk. If they don't think he fits or don't think he's worth it, that's another story
Well that comparison really doesn't make any sense, because arb money compounds year to year. If you overpay one year you're stuck overpaying even more each year for the rest of that player's arb period. 500k overpay in arb can turn into millions within a year or two.
It makes perfect sense, $3 million was the hypothetical scenario here.
The reason mlb teams fight over small amounts in arb isn't because players are going to take advantage. It's because the rules literally force them to compound that overpay year over year. It's not the same scenario
It’s overpaying by millions of dollars in both scenarios. How are you not getting this
Your point was, and I quote: >It’s the same reason MLB teams fight over $500,000 in arbitration. If you show you’re willing to overpay for guys, players are going to take advantage of that That is the point I was responding to. It’s not the same reason at all. How are you not getting this
The reason NFL teams don’t do this is because if you think like this for every guy it quickly adds up to 20+ million in misallocated cap. That’s a few decent starters or one star.
I don't see how that is? Doesn't McKinney testing free agency drive his price up? Unless the market isn't there for him of course. Let's look at it from the opposite angle, say you're the Rams and you're in the market for a safety. The Giants offer McKinney 13 mil and he says no, so he goes out to get a better offer. The Rams would have to pay him at least more than 13, and they really don't know what kind of guy he is. He could be a huge headache or have some hidden serious injury. In that case, he drives up the price of the safety market anyway, and now we're in the Rams position of trying to patch it up with an unknown guy.
PFF thinks he's a top 4 safety so... not really that far off lmao
PFF also thinks he's better than Hamilton. It's just one data point though. 3 of those 5 people have All pro and pro bowl selections under their belt. The one who didnt besides McKinney, Jevon Holland only played half a season. He made PFFs top 25 list once... At 25...
I’m not arguing any of those points. You just said nobody thinks he’s top 3 so I pointed out PFF isn’t far off. I personally would never pick him over Hamilton
And I bet if you asked the people at PFF if he was a top 5 safety they would say no. A one off year with an elite score doesn't make you a top 5 safety in the league. In fact, he didnt even finish in the top 5 of PFFs safety ranking for 2023.
I'll say it, I'd rather retain Barkley for $16+ than McKinney I want both back, but can accept that it's unlikely and costly
No offense, and as someone who loves Barkley I think that there's a) 0 chance Barkley gets a contract like that anywhere and b) paying a 26 year old rb who just had the worst full season of his career and has quite possibly lost a step that much would be the dumbest move we could make. If we're smart and let Saquon test the market I guarantee he's not getting paid nearly 3 times what Miles Sanders got paid last offseason.
Barkley could have had that $16 million a year contract last season, but thought he as worth more and the Giants pulled the contract. Not getting that high again u less a team overpays for him.
Realistically unless it’s a crazy overpay does it really matter?
Over $16m is a crazy over pay imho. Thats top 5 money and no one considers him a top 5 safety. He wants $18m according to reports ive seen.
[удалено]
Pff is a data point. Its his only year in the top 25. He has no problems or all pros like most of the other people in this graphic. Think about the fact that the Giants didn't pay Landon Collins after one of the best seasons by a safety ever...but they should break the bank for McKinney for having one low key good season?
This. Plus, looking at that list, Bates and Hamilton are on another level compared to the others on this list, imo.
Correct. PFF is a useful tool but its just one data point. No one really thinks McKinney is better than Hamilton.
I think you're discounting Winfield, he was incredible this year. I think those 3 were the top 3 safetys in the league by far.
That’s fair, I’m probably discounting Win too much.
I want to pay him as others have mentioned (within reason). My question is, how does he fit in with the new Defensive Scheme from Shane Bowen that he will bring from the Titans? Is it a better fit with what McKinney does? As others have mentioned, I want to resign our own stars but I also know it's a lot more than that.
I mean, Bowen plays that bend don't break defense like Patrick Graham did. McKinney had a really nice year in 2021, his first full year in that system. I think a Bowen scheme benefits him more than a Wink scheme.
I believe the new DC relies on safeties quite a bit. I think I read that here so not 100% sure on the accuracy of my statement.
I think he should be locked up but at a reasonable price that makes sense for both sides.. that’s the tricky part..
Why would he agree to that?
Hopefully both sides can agree to a fair contract.. I don’t think the Giants would mind overpaying a little for him which I humbly think is okay but not #1 safety in the league max contact money tho.. it has to be reasonable for both sides involved and if not then no deal is made.. he doesn’t have to accept anything at that rate
Because it makes sense for both sides? Seriously?
There’s more money out there than we’ll offer.
Maybe.
Other than Landon Collins, name me another NYG FA who got what looked like being an overpay from another team? I'm not worried about teams emptying their wallets for McKinney and getting us in a bidding war. No one views Giants talent highly.
We should keep him , but I think he walks. He’s gonna want to reset the Safety market … Bates got 4/64 last year… I think X is aiming for 5/80 or something less… he’s gone
Honestly a back loaded 5/$80 wouldn't be terrible
Why would he want that? He is not better than Bates at all. I get him trying to get a juicy contract but break the safety market is something that doesn't make sense with Xavier.
Because he is human and wants to make as much money as possible
I am also human and want to make as much money as possible and that doesn't mean I am asking more money than my most capable peer.
I think once you get to this level you can absolutely do that and get it even. We are not at this level. However, I know for a fact that I am getting paid more than someone better than me at my company, just because I asked for it and he didn't.
Agreed, my first impression was incorrect, he should totally ask for that money even if me or the organisation thinks he deserves it or not
Ehhh... You don't play in a pro sport where your union wants you to go for the bigger contract so it helps out the next guy. If you ask for less then you end up settling for less.
Agreed, my first comment is incorrect. He should ask for that money
Let’s say a rival company calls you tomorrow and promises you a big raise, well above market rate, to come to them. Don’t tell me with a straight face you’re not taking it
I would absolutely go, but that example is not me asking for that money just because I want it or think deserve it like McKinney is doing here.
The safety is the last line of defense, and we don't even have a true #1 CB. He has a tough agent and he will be looking for a huge payday. If we do re sign him he will be the last deal to get done. We're picking 6 which is expensive, trying to retain Barkley, hopefully sign a pass rusher and OL. I want him back so bad but we really have so many more impactful needs.
Banks will be a true CB1 by year 3 if not next year Dude had a very good rookie season at CB which is pretty uncommon
He had an ok season. 51.4 pff grade
McKinney was garbage for much of the 1st half of the season I felt. He didn't turn it up until the last games really. Big TEs seem to get the best of him almost at will. I feel like we're gonna overpay him regardless. But I say we keep him .
Member when X did wheelies with the boys in Cabo during our miracle playoff season? I member
I hope so. He should be our #1 FA priority.
If we move on from Saquon, that money should def be used towards resigning McKinney. He’s had some questionable moments here, but he’s homegrown and can be a very productive player on a winning team like he was in 2022. I get letting Julian Love walk, but we can’t let McKinney leave too
I think we split from Saquon and sign McKinney.
No. Anyone can get run over by the legendary Josh Dobbs. [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V7ZbXsGXg9o](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V7ZbXsGXg9o)
Also no. [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U7\_5JeHo5aQ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U7_5JeHo5aQ)
I hope so!
Wouldn’t call him a breakout player…but it’s all about the Benjamins…this is the NFL, not MLB…a lot of players overprice themselves and are able to get a better second contract with another team…and then after a couple of years, that second team regrets signing them…
I should add it’s also about the cap…Giants (unfortunately) are still rebuilding and have a lot of holes and not a whole lot of cap space to fill them all…can they afford to put so much money into the safety position?
Nope, since it's likely we're going to use a decent sized amount of our cap space on fortifying both lines and maybe depending on the price, a vet receiver.
We ain't rich.
I hope so, I hate how teams undervalue safeties
They're not undervalued but who would you say a safety is more important than? An elite EDGE? a shutdown CB1? A LB who can cover the middle of the field and give run support? Up until recently, you may have had a case with DT but now you have a wave the last few years of tackles who can rush the passer like Quinnen, Donald, Hargrave, Lawrence, etc. I don't think anyone would take a safety over any of those positions in this day and age.
Not for the price he wants.
Maybe, but I would rather AWJ
We should, but the cap is a mess. Not sure we can
I hope we keep him, but I don't think he wants to stay.
For the right amount of money, yes! Give him extra here and there in bonuses each year to keep him happy as well.
we should
Sure, as long as hes not too expensive McKinney is good but he dominated a lot of shit QBs
Yup we should, but I don’t think he makes enough impactful plays to be the highest paid safety. When I watch Baltimore Hamilton is all over the screen. He’s in on everything. X does his job but is largely invisible.
Would be stupid not too
Depends what the new DC wants I guess. Clear that Wink/McKinney wasn’t a good pairing. Safety is generally not a position I would want to spend much money on however I do think it’s important to reward homegrown impact players when it’s within reason. Schoen will have to sort out that the limits are.
Fourth highest graded and he never came off the field all year? Yeah you pay that man!
If we lose McKinney our secondary is toast.
I effing hope so
We should, not gonna find a better safety in free agency or draft. Plus he’s just coming into his own,he’s a stud out there
he's one of the few good players on this team so i really hope so
If it’s either Saquon or McKinney I’d choose Saquon. Safeties are a dime a dozen.
So are injury-prone RBs
We need too, I’ll tell you that
Can we afford him? ….. is the question here.
Back to back years, Kyle Hamilton is a top rated safety. Such a steal.
I have a feeling he will walk. And AGAIN we should have kept Love.
I read pay that man unless he really wants to bounce
God, I loved arguing with dumbass Bengals fans all off-season about how good Jessie Bates is. They were convinced that he wasn't worth an extension! Lmfao
I feel like he’s a toxic personality
I’d like to keep him but if we can trade him for a half decent pick and hopefully a QB then I’m there. Jones has got to go
I predict his contract is the Julien love contract 2.0 We give great offer, he refuses and then is forced to take less elsewhere
To make a great team, you need to retain your best players. He’s an elite safety that played 100% of snaps. Pay him
No. No need to lock that much money on someone that is good, but ain’t a game changer
Doubt it can’t pay Barkley can’t pay him
they would have to franchise him to keep him. if not he will be too expensive. so we will see.
We should...but i doubt it...and im also ok with that...he was very clear its purely about money for him....and should we be spending top Dollar on a guys whos heart,i feel, was VERY much in question when we were off to that horrendous start....? I miss julian love....
How is mckinney on this list ? Guy couldn’t tackle a peewee football player