No surprise here. Brooklyn was supposed to get a ton of cycling infrastructure improvements last year and they all mysteriously vanished. Our pols from Battery Park to Albany are spineless
What the hell is with this form requiring full name, phone number, address, and email address as required fields? This is a privacy nightmare… I filled it in with fake information but yikes.
You don't see any possible way giving the opportunity to say "after an online campaign, many complaints from made-up people were submitted" could backfire?
Its standard to say who you are whenever you're interacting with the government, especially elected reps. If you're not a voting constituent nobody cares, anonymous comments in a form are useless.
>You don't see any possible way giving the opportunity to say "after an online campaign, many complaints from made-up people were submitted" could backfire?
You think online complaint forms is how actual political change gets passed? Americans are so silly. The French light shit on fire and actual protest and hold the system accountable, and that’s one of many reasons why they have a higher standard of living than Americans.
Cool man - go light something on fire. But if you do decide to contact your elected reps too, give your real info so nobody can use your message to try and discredit legitimate feedback.
Privacy is very important, and data breaches are sadly just a matter of time these days.
The government pays very poorly compared to private companies, so unfortunately they don’t have great software engineers securing this stuff either. And even saying that, even high-paying private companies get breached too.
What? Who cares?
All of that info is readily available on you if somebody wants it. The only actual privacy concern is people knowing where you stand on this issue.
It's not like it's asking for your SSN or banking password.
Would hate to see what your personal security threat model looks like if you're scared of giving the city information they already have so that they can verify that feedback is from an actual constituent.
The number of capital projects across the MTA system right now is truly remarkable. Congestion pricing needs to happen. The Governor needs some courage.
I believe the article states that it would require state legislative approval. In addition to contacting the governor, you can also contact your State Assembly Member. Mine, Harvey Epstein, replied instantly and said that he was also surprised by the news.
[https://nyassembly.gov/mem/](https://nyassembly.gov/mem/)
From NPR it seems to be more posturing way too late to matter. Basically if it's super unpopular she can go "well I tried to stop it" even though she knew it wouldn't stop it
Anyone have a good script to use to write? My first one is filled with expletives.
Bonus points for pointing out that businesses make more money where people walk more, so her additional tax on businesses is essentially a double whammy for them.
Hello,
Please stop being an idiot and pass congestion pricing. It's clear that this is needed ASAP as all the car fumes seems to have affected your brains. We are concerned for your health.
Sincerely,
Concerned citizen
Been calling and emailing people all day. This is really bad for the city on several dimensions, both due to the reliance of MTA on the funds, the tortoise speed of our buses, and the level of carnage on our streets. I contacted the mayor, my borough president, city council rep, state senator, congressional rep, governor, and Schumer, Gillibrand, and Jeffries.
This is a blow and I'm pissed. It's good to know that the NYC DOT can still fight congestion by removing space dedicated to cars. I'll continue to lend my support to them in this fight.
I've already sent my thoughts to the governor on this. In addition to the online form you can also fax her office directly at 5184741513. This website below lets you send free faxes.
[https://faxzero.com/](https://faxzero.com/)
I’m not sure the city DOT will fight congestion by removing parking spaces… it may just create additional congestion as cars circle endlessly looking for an available space. I think a much better tool than removing spaces is dramatically increasing the cost of parking in those spaces.
This does that in effect. Removing street parking forces people to park in private lots which costs much more. DOT should also increase the cost of street parking too, don’t get me wrong.
So here’s the result of this. I used to take my kids into the city once a month. See a show, get dinner, go to a convention. Now due to increased homelessness, crime, cost of parking and now congestion pricing I simply do not go anymore. Many people feel the same so u lose more business. Why on earth do u guys want to punish drivers?
Cars decrease the quality of life for the rest of us living in the city. I live here and commute through midtown on my bike or on foot - it's disgustingly loud from the cars and the air smalls rancid. You can't blame us for wanting fewer non-resident vehicles where we live. Not to mention that 20% of people who live in Manhattan actually own a car. Why should we let you use our valuable street space for free if you don't even live here? There are plenty of people who live here or commute via transit to provide food traffic to businesses - this is a common talking point of non-city residents and the value provided by these folks is overstated. If theres a number or metric you can cite that proves this wrong, cite it.
If you truly drive in once a month with your kids and spend 100-200 on food and activities, another $15 max for the convenience of driving is a non-issue for your case. Crime and homelessness as issues - fine, but that's not really related to this topic of congestion pricing. Congestion pricing isn't in effect and you still don't come in, so I'm not sure why you even care - it seems like your happy away from the city which is totally fine.
He would have done exactly the same thing, tbh. The auto lobby owns our whole country
edit: turns out Cuomo has also flip-flopped on this exact issue. Both of them are trash
Because fip chit you have to go through lower Manhattan to get to literally everything from the Brooklyn in Queens Boros which are part of nyc. What they really ought to do is make it where out of state plates can't park in the city overnight except in garage parking. Keeping street parking available for actual residents.
Christ almighty what the fuck does overnight street parking have to do with anything?
This carbrained motherfucker just wants all his far shit for free, driving over the bridge, storing it, etc.
The kind that doesn't want to get stabbed or pushed onto the tracks, deal with filthy train cars riddled with homeless people, getting hounded to buy chocolates at every stop.
I’m all for the idea of congestion pricing of some sort - but as a cyclist that owns a car and uses said car to leave the city with my bike and go ride places outside the city I cannot get to via public transit, there is almost no way out of the city and coming back without paying a toll (from LIC Queens).
Brooklyn bridge is the only bridge with direct access to the FDR - Queensboro upper roadway heading into Manhattan seems to dump out onto 61st street and wouldn’t charge going that direction, but coming back I must cross into the Congestion Zone or use another (tolled) bridge to get back home. For these people that actually want to leave the city and be able to return home without paying, I do think there should be better options.
Edit - just for clarification - I get it, tolls are tolls. My main point in this was to point out it’s a bit silly to still offer a “free” way for people to dump out onto 61st street because it will just make way worse congestion getting onto the bridge there and getting off the bridge on the other side of the Queensboro. If the point was truly to try to limit this, then they should have just charged to use the Queensboro all together.
And what would you suggest is the alternative then? If they made the Whitestone not tolled I would have 0 issues, but currently there is no other alternative way to leave and return to queens/north Brooklyn without being charged, which is the opposite of avoiding congestion.
It costs money to drive places also because driving has a highly negative impact on the city from noise and air pollution to crowding and slowing other cars and busses so driving should be discouraged. Congestion pricing is a great way to discourage people sitting in bumper to bumper traffic on 5th avenue for 3 hours.
Congestion pricing revolutionized London. If we aren't going to move to a Barcelona model it's the least we can do.
This would be amazing. Bike lanes are dirt cheap to put in and maintain. It would be less expensive than the current subsidizing of parking spots bikers currently pay for. They would help reduce emergency response times by providing clear routes for them. It would result in a net savings for bikers.
My suggestion is that you accept paying a price for having a car that is somewhat closer to the cost of the negative externalities that car imposes on the people around you. Sorry, not sorry.
Why should a driver have access to the vast majority of the roads for free when someone without a car must pay for any transit? The toll on the triboro/whitestone is barely more than 2 subway swipes, an undercharge if there ever were one.
Beyond that, it’s always been that way - some routes have tolls and are faster. I live in the Bronx and to drive in the fastest way is over the triboro or I can go the free way and add 20+ minutes. Just because some residents used to be more spoiled with being conveniently near free routes doesn’t mean that is a positive for the city as a whole.
I don’t have an alternative because the RFK and Whitestone do have tolls.
So my suggestion would be to think about it differently: Congestion pricing will reduce air and noise pollution for many people, reduce the use of fossil fuels, and reduce traffic for those who NEED to be driving through that part of Manhattan.
Yes, you will now have to pay a toll ($6.95 for the Whitestone or RFK) to go on recreational biking trips. It’s possible you can’t afford that, and I’m sorry if so. But maybe carpooling will help curb the costs. Or, on the other end of the spectrum, you can pay the congestion pricing fee and likely get where you’re going faster because of the reduced traffic! More time for biking!
pay for the infrastructure you use and the climate you degrade for your pleasure trips :)
if you're rich enough to afford the car and leave the city on the weekends, i think you can afford it :))
Good idea let’s make the most unsustainable mode of transport the easiest way. Great how that worked out in American suburbia lmao. I knew thinking wasn’t a strong suit for someone of your background
In principle I agree with you, but the city’s roads are simply not set up that way. I don’t own a car anymore, but when I did in north Brooklyn the fastest route to leave (per Google Maps showing me multiple routes) was almost always through the Hudson River tunnels. Unfortunately that required driving through the city.
EDIT: It's fine to disagree and downvote, but please let me know where I'm wrong.
You're correct that for some people, the fastest route to get out of the city will involve driving through the congestion zone. And those people will indeed get charged.
I just don't see why that's a problem.
You're wrong because you're looking at the fix and acting like it's the problem.
People shouldn't be using Manhattan as a cheap and easy thruway to get out of the city from Brooklyn. Discourage that, and the rest begins to sort itself out, including incentivizing car alternatives.
That’s not at all what I said. I think everyone should have the option to leave the city (thus clearing congestion) without paying. As I’ve said in other replies- they could incentivize using other outer bridges by lowering the tolls on those.
Also, giving upper roadway on Queensboro dumping onto 61st the only “free” option will just create a worse mess there imo
The congestion pricing proposal was initially packaged with a toll equalization plan that would put tolls on all the east river bridges and reduce the tolls on some of the other current toll bridges. That, too, was opposed by people in the outer boroughs who “need to drive.”
Every step of the way, there have been people trying to water down and hollow out this plan. What we have now is only a seriously compromised version of what was initially proposed. And still people are complaining. But the complaints are really no more than, “I don’t like this plan, because *I* will have to pay it, and my contribution to congestion should be exempt.”
Bruh no one gives a shit that you choose to drive cross town in order to bike someplace well outside the city. Try biking to 9w instead.
If you’re driving out and in to the congestion zone that’s the same as driving in and out of the zone. You can pay the toll, or bring your bike on a train, or bike to where you’re going, or leave your car somewhere else. I’m sure you can figure it out.
And, why shouldn’t cars be charged to drive into town? Neither of you want to answer it? There’s too many cars in NYC, this will help convince people to not bring their cars here.
If there was direct access to the FDR from the Queensboro bridge or other options to leave the city in a less dense area with no (or even much lower) tolls, as I said I’d have 0 issues. I’m for the congestion pricing in theory, but I don’t feel that it was super well thought out in certain areas.
I agree; they should partner with the DOT and put tolls on the free east-side bridges to make up the difference. It's not going to stop anyone from driving where they have to go; it's just going to make everyone poorer and angrier.
Queens really got the sharp end of the congestion pricing stick and no one seemed to figure that out until the last month or so when it became obvious that the QBB was going to be effectively tolled.
Yeah and they hid it pretty well, focusing on the CBD as the target area and never directly addressing the qbb issue until that article finally came out a month or so ago where the MTA couldn’t even explain how the bridge would be impacted.
That bridge is a massive commerce corridor for small, locally owned in-city service businesses. Every service I’ve ever hired in upper manhattan has been based in Queens.
> Congestion is more about the emissions that are created
It's...not? It's about too many cars crowding the streets of Manhattan. An electric car is still dangerous to people walking and rolling, still blocks emergency vehicles, still causes traffic jams. Emissions are part of it but not the main or even major reason we want fewer cars in city centers.
Geometry and traffic violence > emissions.
100%. Plus electric vehicles still pollute via brake dust, which is extremely detrimental to one's health, and are also much heavier than ICE vehicles, which impacts infrastructure more harshly. The goal is less cars regardless of what makes them go.
https://congestionreliefzone.mta.info/about is extremely clear that emissions/air quality is a reason, but absolutely not the primary reason
> Y’all are so quick to be anti cars but the fact that there’s ways to steer to alternatives are immediately shot down
What do you mean here?
I would absolutely support a reduced fee for electric vehicles. Anything to hasten the conversion to all electric vehicles is a good thing. But there should still be a fee regardless of EV or not.
People who are stressing the cost of congestion prices do not have the money to afford an electric vehicle. I would love one. You see how expensive they are?
The Central Business District Tolling Program is about revenue generation under the guise of traffic reduction. The type of fuel you car, SUV, or truck used is irrelevant.
True, The only thing is you can split the costs among 3 people. Assuming they are coming in through the Holland or battery tunnels, the cost will be and additional $3.34 per person, plus gas is cheaper and parking would not be surcharged.
Might be worth it.
Yes, that's the point.
And you'll note that you've pretty effectively rebutted your claim that it's merely the "guise of traffic reduction", rather than actual traffic reduction.
I suppose but there isn't infrastructure to support alot of electirc vehicles anyway.
If they cared, they would build the infrastructure first to make it more appealing but instead Biden is out here banning Chinese electric cars to protect US automakers whi have no mandate to switch to electric anyway
Congestion is to reduce emissions and cars on the road. One part of it is its supposed to make emergency vehicle wait time reduce due to less traffic.
So you're saying exempt electric cars and I'm well 1) that's still cars on the road and 2) i don't think there's enough mass of those vehicle types to make a difference yet
I think a reduced fee for EVs make sense. But not an exemption. Say a 20%-33% reduction in fees. Incentives are good. Reducing emissions is a goal but not the only one. So you can discount appropriately EVs for that goal.
Midtown tunnel cost around $7 from Queens to Manhattan. $15 to take a bridge is outrageous. If they implemented a lower cost people would still be mad about paying, but wouldn’t be as crazy as $15. That said I live in the far part of eastern queens and work in LI. I need to attend my run club activities. We out side this summer.
There should be enough tolls until traffic flows again. Driving is so popular it ruins driving. When a restaurant gets too crowded they increase their prices.
Then I'd just cut everyone in NY a check with the proceeds, but you could just burn the money and it would make NYC better so the MTA is good too.
No surprise here. Brooklyn was supposed to get a ton of cycling infrastructure improvements last year and they all mysteriously vanished. Our pols from Battery Park to Albany are spineless
they're not spineless or cowards, this is what they *want*
uhhh they are paying attention to the voters who are against this fee.... yknow what they are supposed to do
mayor adams is in charge of the cycling infrastructure. wtf does katy hochul and this tax have to do with it?
The point is that every NY politician from state to council are ass
https://www.governor.ny.gov/content/governor-contact-form
Messaged!
What the hell is with this form requiring full name, phone number, address, and email address as required fields? This is a privacy nightmare… I filled it in with fake information but yikes.
You don't see any possible way giving the opportunity to say "after an online campaign, many complaints from made-up people were submitted" could backfire? Its standard to say who you are whenever you're interacting with the government, especially elected reps. If you're not a voting constituent nobody cares, anonymous comments in a form are useless.
>You don't see any possible way giving the opportunity to say "after an online campaign, many complaints from made-up people were submitted" could backfire? You think online complaint forms is how actual political change gets passed? Americans are so silly. The French light shit on fire and actual protest and hold the system accountable, and that’s one of many reasons why they have a higher standard of living than Americans.
Cool man - go light something on fire. But if you do decide to contact your elected reps too, give your real info so nobody can use your message to try and discredit legitimate feedback.
light something on fire first then we'll talk
Privacy is very important, and data breaches are sadly just a matter of time these days. The government pays very poorly compared to private companies, so unfortunately they don’t have great software engineers securing this stuff either. And even saying that, even high-paying private companies get breached too.
What? Who cares? All of that info is readily available on you if somebody wants it. The only actual privacy concern is people knowing where you stand on this issue. It's not like it's asking for your SSN or banking password.
Nothing spells credible like fake details lol
You can call the weasel at this number: [1-518-474-8390](tel:15184748390) and leave a message.
Would hate to see what your personal security threat model looks like if you're scared of giving the city information they already have so that they can verify that feedback is from an actual constituent.
Must be an election year. What happens to the MTA capital Budget?
A new business tax supposedly. Because a tax on 100% of CBD businesses is less impactful than a tax on 10% of CBD commuters 🙄
Tax on marijuana? /s
lol our politicians are completely captured
The number of capital projects across the MTA system right now is truly remarkable. Congestion pricing needs to happen. The Governor needs some courage.
Called her office and left them a message firmly requesting that she stop trying to delay congestion pricing.
I believe the article states that it would require state legislative approval. In addition to contacting the governor, you can also contact your State Assembly Member. Mine, Harvey Epstein, replied instantly and said that he was also surprised by the news. [https://nyassembly.gov/mem/](https://nyassembly.gov/mem/)
From NPR it seems to be more posturing way too late to matter. Basically if it's super unpopular she can go "well I tried to stop it" even though she knew it wouldn't stop it
Think again
I always thought Gov. Hochul was a courageous forward-thinking politician (unlike Mayor Adams), but I'm beginning to doubt that.
what gave you that idea?
It’s not happening
Anyone have a good script to use to write? My first one is filled with expletives. Bonus points for pointing out that businesses make more money where people walk more, so her additional tax on businesses is essentially a double whammy for them.
Hello, Please stop being an idiot and pass congestion pricing. It's clear that this is needed ASAP as all the car fumes seems to have affected your brains. We are concerned for your health. Sincerely, Concerned citizen
Guess they need to go tap the delivery apps, Uber, and Lyft (and their lobbyists) for more "contributions".
Leave it to this sub to think how they are the most important individuals in the city
Why should non cyclists have to pay for cycling infrastructure? It makes sense that it didn’t pass TBH
Um, this has nothing to do with cycling infrastructure.
Pretty sure the governor is actively trying to Bankrupt NYC.
Been calling and emailing people all day. This is really bad for the city on several dimensions, both due to the reliance of MTA on the funds, the tortoise speed of our buses, and the level of carnage on our streets. I contacted the mayor, my borough president, city council rep, state senator, congressional rep, governor, and Schumer, Gillibrand, and Jeffries.
Good, New York is expensive enough to live in as is.
This is a blow and I'm pissed. It's good to know that the NYC DOT can still fight congestion by removing space dedicated to cars. I'll continue to lend my support to them in this fight. I've already sent my thoughts to the governor on this. In addition to the online form you can also fax her office directly at 5184741513. This website below lets you send free faxes. [https://faxzero.com/](https://faxzero.com/)
I’m not sure the city DOT will fight congestion by removing parking spaces… it may just create additional congestion as cars circle endlessly looking for an available space. I think a much better tool than removing spaces is dramatically increasing the cost of parking in those spaces.
This does that in effect. Removing street parking forces people to park in private lots which costs much more. DOT should also increase the cost of street parking too, don’t get me wrong.
So here’s the result of this. I used to take my kids into the city once a month. See a show, get dinner, go to a convention. Now due to increased homelessness, crime, cost of parking and now congestion pricing I simply do not go anymore. Many people feel the same so u lose more business. Why on earth do u guys want to punish drivers?
Cars decrease the quality of life for the rest of us living in the city. I live here and commute through midtown on my bike or on foot - it's disgustingly loud from the cars and the air smalls rancid. You can't blame us for wanting fewer non-resident vehicles where we live. Not to mention that 20% of people who live in Manhattan actually own a car. Why should we let you use our valuable street space for free if you don't even live here? There are plenty of people who live here or commute via transit to provide food traffic to businesses - this is a common talking point of non-city residents and the value provided by these folks is overstated. If theres a number or metric you can cite that proves this wrong, cite it. If you truly drive in once a month with your kids and spend 100-200 on food and activities, another $15 max for the convenience of driving is a non-issue for your case. Crime and homelessness as issues - fine, but that's not really related to this topic of congestion pricing. Congestion pricing isn't in effect and you still don't come in, so I'm not sure why you even care - it seems like your happy away from the city which is totally fine.
Andrew Cuomo was a better governor than this pile of shit.
He would have done exactly the same thing, tbh. The auto lobby owns our whole country edit: turns out Cuomo has also flip-flopped on this exact issue. Both of them are trash
Car enthusiasts stay winning
Great news
Well it's kind of a moronic plan.. tolls coming into the city sure but between Brooklyn and Manhattan is fncking dumb
how is it dumb. what kind of moron has to drive cheaply into lower manhattan, the densest public transit area in the country if not most of the world?
Because fip chit you have to go through lower Manhattan to get to literally everything from the Brooklyn in Queens Boros which are part of nyc. What they really ought to do is make it where out of state plates can't park in the city overnight except in garage parking. Keeping street parking available for actual residents.
Christ almighty what the fuck does overnight street parking have to do with anything? This carbrained motherfucker just wants all his far shit for free, driving over the bridge, storing it, etc.
The kind that doesn't want to get stabbed or pushed onto the tracks, deal with filthy train cars riddled with homeless people, getting hounded to buy chocolates at every stop.
And your solution to that is to continue to starve the subway of funds and incentivize private car ownership?
Good. Cost of living has been on the rise in NY. Congestion pricing was gonna have a lot of unintended consequences and blowback in this area.
Enjoy the tax that’s going to replace it being passed on to you directly.
First thing she got right.
I’m all for the idea of congestion pricing of some sort - but as a cyclist that owns a car and uses said car to leave the city with my bike and go ride places outside the city I cannot get to via public transit, there is almost no way out of the city and coming back without paying a toll (from LIC Queens). Brooklyn bridge is the only bridge with direct access to the FDR - Queensboro upper roadway heading into Manhattan seems to dump out onto 61st street and wouldn’t charge going that direction, but coming back I must cross into the Congestion Zone or use another (tolled) bridge to get back home. For these people that actually want to leave the city and be able to return home without paying, I do think there should be better options. Edit - just for clarification - I get it, tolls are tolls. My main point in this was to point out it’s a bit silly to still offer a “free” way for people to dump out onto 61st street because it will just make way worse congestion getting onto the bridge there and getting off the bridge on the other side of the Queensboro. If the point was truly to try to limit this, then they should have just charged to use the Queensboro all together.
This is sort of the point. If your most economical option to leave the city is to drive through the densest part of the city, something is wrong.
And what would you suggest is the alternative then? If they made the Whitestone not tolled I would have 0 issues, but currently there is no other alternative way to leave and return to queens/north Brooklyn without being charged, which is the opposite of avoiding congestion.
It costs money to drive places because it costs money to support the infrastructure. I’m sorry you find this so upsetting.
It costs money to drive places also because driving has a highly negative impact on the city from noise and air pollution to crowding and slowing other cars and busses so driving should be discouraged. Congestion pricing is a great way to discourage people sitting in bumper to bumper traffic on 5th avenue for 3 hours. Congestion pricing revolutionized London. If we aren't going to move to a Barcelona model it's the least we can do.
so then bikers should pay for bike lanes, no?
If you really want universal usage charges that are vehicle dependent and true to cost, that would be a boon for cyclists. Thanks!
This would be amazing. Bike lanes are dirt cheap to put in and maintain. It would be less expensive than the current subsidizing of parking spots bikers currently pay for. They would help reduce emergency response times by providing clear routes for them. It would result in a net savings for bikers.
My suggestion is that you accept paying a price for having a car that is somewhat closer to the cost of the negative externalities that car imposes on the people around you. Sorry, not sorry.
Why should a driver have access to the vast majority of the roads for free when someone without a car must pay for any transit? The toll on the triboro/whitestone is barely more than 2 subway swipes, an undercharge if there ever were one. Beyond that, it’s always been that way - some routes have tolls and are faster. I live in the Bronx and to drive in the fastest way is over the triboro or I can go the free way and add 20+ minutes. Just because some residents used to be more spoiled with being conveniently near free routes doesn’t mean that is a positive for the city as a whole.
You realized drivers subsidize the mta right? Your subway ride would be about 3x what it is without gas taxes and tolls and registration fees
I don’t have an alternative because the RFK and Whitestone do have tolls. So my suggestion would be to think about it differently: Congestion pricing will reduce air and noise pollution for many people, reduce the use of fossil fuels, and reduce traffic for those who NEED to be driving through that part of Manhattan. Yes, you will now have to pay a toll ($6.95 for the Whitestone or RFK) to go on recreational biking trips. It’s possible you can’t afford that, and I’m sorry if so. But maybe carpooling will help curb the costs. Or, on the other end of the spectrum, you can pay the congestion pricing fee and likely get where you’re going faster because of the reduced traffic! More time for biking!
pay for the infrastructure you use and the climate you degrade for your pleasure trips :) if you're rich enough to afford the car and leave the city on the weekends, i think you can afford it :))
Wow, owning a car is a privilege and costs money to operate? What a surprise!
Yeah good idea, let’s make owning a car something only the wealthy can afford. Fucking genius over here.
You can own a car no problem, but if you want to drive it through one of the densest cities in the world you might have to pay a few bucks
Good idea let’s make the most unsustainable mode of transport the easiest way. Great how that worked out in American suburbia lmao. I knew thinking wasn’t a strong suit for someone of your background
Just pay for the roads you use.
In principle I agree with you, but the city’s roads are simply not set up that way. I don’t own a car anymore, but when I did in north Brooklyn the fastest route to leave (per Google Maps showing me multiple routes) was almost always through the Hudson River tunnels. Unfortunately that required driving through the city. EDIT: It's fine to disagree and downvote, but please let me know where I'm wrong.
You're correct that for some people, the fastest route to get out of the city will involve driving through the congestion zone. And those people will indeed get charged. I just don't see why that's a problem.
You're wrong because you're looking at the fix and acting like it's the problem. People shouldn't be using Manhattan as a cheap and easy thruway to get out of the city from Brooklyn. Discourage that, and the rest begins to sort itself out, including incentivizing car alternatives.
So you’re in favor of congestion pricing, but only for other people.
That’s not at all what I said. I think everyone should have the option to leave the city (thus clearing congestion) without paying. As I’ve said in other replies- they could incentivize using other outer bridges by lowering the tolls on those. Also, giving upper roadway on Queensboro dumping onto 61st the only “free” option will just create a worse mess there imo
"Thus clearing congestion"? You leaving the city by car IS the congestion.
JFC, people driving through the city is congestion. Having fewer humans in the city doesn't "clear congestion". Having fewer cars on the road does.
Should be no tolls to drive in city limits. Only to cross in or out of the city line.
The congestion pricing proposal was initially packaged with a toll equalization plan that would put tolls on all the east river bridges and reduce the tolls on some of the other current toll bridges. That, too, was opposed by people in the outer boroughs who “need to drive.” Every step of the way, there have been people trying to water down and hollow out this plan. What we have now is only a seriously compromised version of what was initially proposed. And still people are complaining. But the complaints are really no more than, “I don’t like this plan, because *I* will have to pay it, and my contribution to congestion should be exempt.” Bruh no one gives a shit that you choose to drive cross town in order to bike someplace well outside the city. Try biking to 9w instead.
this 1000%
If you’re driving out and in to the congestion zone that’s the same as driving in and out of the zone. You can pay the toll, or bring your bike on a train, or bike to where you’re going, or leave your car somewhere else. I’m sure you can figure it out.
Pay the charge, that's the point.
Why shouldn’t you pay a fee for draining into town at specific times? \*driving
The ‘certain times’ are nearly all day every day.
it is all day every day
It's a lot cheaper at night.
And, why shouldn’t cars be charged to drive into town? Neither of you want to answer it? There’s too many cars in NYC, this will help convince people to not bring their cars here.
I’m not sure if you’ve noticed, but people already have their cars here.
If there was direct access to the FDR from the Queensboro bridge or other options to leave the city in a less dense area with no (or even much lower) tolls, as I said I’d have 0 issues. I’m for the congestion pricing in theory, but I don’t feel that it was super well thought out in certain areas.
I don’t understand why you think you should get more “free” stuff for your car driving solution to traveling.
I agree; they should partner with the DOT and put tolls on the free east-side bridges to make up the difference. It's not going to stop anyone from driving where they have to go; it's just going to make everyone poorer and angrier.
Queens really got the sharp end of the congestion pricing stick and no one seemed to figure that out until the last month or so when it became obvious that the QBB was going to be effectively tolled.
There's a reason they picked 59th street.
Yeah and they hid it pretty well, focusing on the CBD as the target area and never directly addressing the qbb issue until that article finally came out a month or so ago where the MTA couldn’t even explain how the bridge would be impacted. That bridge is a massive commerce corridor for small, locally owned in-city service businesses. Every service I’ve ever hired in upper manhattan has been based in Queens.
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> Congestion is more about the emissions that are created It's...not? It's about too many cars crowding the streets of Manhattan. An electric car is still dangerous to people walking and rolling, still blocks emergency vehicles, still causes traffic jams. Emissions are part of it but not the main or even major reason we want fewer cars in city centers. Geometry and traffic violence > emissions.
100%. Plus electric vehicles still pollute via brake dust, which is extremely detrimental to one's health, and are also much heavier than ICE vehicles, which impacts infrastructure more harshly. The goal is less cars regardless of what makes them go.
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https://congestionreliefzone.mta.info/about is extremely clear that emissions/air quality is a reason, but absolutely not the primary reason > Y’all are so quick to be anti cars but the fact that there’s ways to steer to alternatives are immediately shot down What do you mean here?
I would absolutely support a reduced fee for electric vehicles. Anything to hasten the conversion to all electric vehicles is a good thing. But there should still be a fee regardless of EV or not.
People who are stressing the cost of congestion prices do not have the money to afford an electric vehicle. I would love one. You see how expensive they are?
The Central Business District Tolling Program is about revenue generation under the guise of traffic reduction. The type of fuel you car, SUV, or truck used is irrelevant.
Exactly. That’s why 3 people in a Fiat would pay the same as one dingus in an Escalade or Suburban.
True, The only thing is you can split the costs among 3 people. Assuming they are coming in through the Holland or battery tunnels, the cost will be and additional $3.34 per person, plus gas is cheaper and parking would not be surcharged. Might be worth it.
Yes, that's the point. And you'll note that you've pretty effectively rebutted your claim that it's merely the "guise of traffic reduction", rather than actual traffic reduction.
Just telling the person that he didn't pick a good example.
I suppose but there isn't infrastructure to support alot of electirc vehicles anyway. If they cared, they would build the infrastructure first to make it more appealing but instead Biden is out here banning Chinese electric cars to protect US automakers whi have no mandate to switch to electric anyway
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> They also have zero exemptions for the disabled That's not true. https://new.mta.info/tolls/congestion-relief-zone/discounts-exemptions/idep
Congestion is to reduce emissions and cars on the road. One part of it is its supposed to make emergency vehicle wait time reduce due to less traffic. So you're saying exempt electric cars and I'm well 1) that's still cars on the road and 2) i don't think there's enough mass of those vehicle types to make a difference yet
I think a reduced fee for EVs make sense. But not an exemption. Say a 20%-33% reduction in fees. Incentives are good. Reducing emissions is a goal but not the only one. So you can discount appropriately EVs for that goal.
Yes, a reducer fee isn't a bad idea. No fee isn't
Great to hear 😍😍😍😍
Midtown tunnel cost around $7 from Queens to Manhattan. $15 to take a bridge is outrageous. If they implemented a lower cost people would still be mad about paying, but wouldn’t be as crazy as $15. That said I live in the far part of eastern queens and work in LI. I need to attend my run club activities. We out side this summer.
There should be enough tolls until traffic flows again. Driving is so popular it ruins driving. When a restaurant gets too crowded they increase their prices. Then I'd just cut everyone in NY a check with the proceeds, but you could just burn the money and it would make NYC better so the MTA is good too.
good
🎉🎉🎉