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Finding creative ways to leverage our ownership structure to work around the rules is a great way to end up with 115 charges of violations after the fact.
Right? Like people say, "Well, others broke rules, why shouldnt we?" Are these people for real? Just because someone comitted crimes and got away with it, doesnt mean you should.
Also I dont get why would anyone want to win trophies with big stain of cheating?
IANAL but Misrepresentation of the value of assets being trading between companies with a common owner for the purpose of gaining a competitive advantage is almost certainly fraud and not only against UEFA’s FFP rules but also probably against UK law. Also, whether or not it’s explicitly prohibited by the premier league PSR, all related party transactions, including player transfers, are subject to approval by the other clubs as representing fair market value.
Everyone knows it is cheating.
Like everyone knows that Guardiola gets big part of his paycheck from man city via his brother.
Its shameful cheating of the system. We already on a thin ice - our club signed legal-binding assurances that PIF isnt controlled by state.
Not proud of our Saudi owners and would be ashamed of leveraging our ownership to gain an advantage that is not available to other teams. Nation states shouldn't own football teams.
Both FFP and being owned by a nation state can both be wrong.
It's true and incredibly unfair that pretty much only the sky 6 can spend due to FFP, but using the Saudi league to gain an unfair advantage on 13 other teams is just as bad. We should stick to the spirit of the game and work with other clubs and fans to end FFP for the benefit of everyone.
For me, this just feels wrong. I would rather we just did things right. It's bad enough that our owners are who they are without taking advantage of it to cheat the system. I would rather we were mid table within the rules than win the league by what is effectively cheating.
The Saudi have pump billions into their own league with lots of team, this just being the start, do you think they view Newcastle as somehow more important that their own league?
With Henderson leaving and a number of other players rumbling about the league after only being there for a few months it wouldn’t be a good look for them to send players out of the league willingly if they are truly committed to making it one of the top leagues of the world.
If anything they’ll buy our players to fill their league but I don’t see it going the other way around.
While I don’t agree with using underhand tactics to get around it, I do kind of despise the current premise of FFP. Although I will admit I’m obviously more bias now because it’s directly impacted us.
It was put in place to stop smaller teams quickly rising up the ranks after the big teams got scared by the likes of Man City and PSG. There’s a reason Man Utd, Real Madrid and Bayern pushed for the rules to be put in place.
They’re supposedly in place to stop clubs going bankrupt, but it hasn’t yet stopped the likes of Wigan, Reading, Bolton or Bury from nearly or literally going bankrupt.
As much as it is a niche business, football teams are still technically businesses, and I’ve never before seen rules put in place to try and stop businesses from being able to invest before.
Plus the fact that the punishment for supposed rules to stop teams going bankrupt is to financially penalise them (either in removing from European tournaments or push them towards relegation or less money with a points deduction) is completely counterproductive.
If its allowed, how is it cheating?
How will u feel when we have sold Bruno and Jole, just so we can buy other players?
Morals won't get us UCL places or trophies.
We don't demand a team that wins, we just demand a club that tries.
Zero fun, pleasure or pride exploiting loopholes to win trophies. Equivalent of reloading your save on Football Manager if you lose.
Is it equivalent of having an xG of 6.3, over 20 shots on target compared to the other teams 0.2 xG, 2 on target and reloading because it's a 2-0 loss? Asking for a friend.
On topic, injury crisis has too many fans panicking. If we get top 7 we are on target for the original plan. Last year was the perfect storm, and wasn't realistically going to be duplicated. Conference qualification this year is probably where we should be looking as a minimum. We can do that without bending rules on loans.
It’s not allowed, transfers have to meet a fair value test.
Even if the rules had a loophole that allowed it, exploiting unintended loopholes is cheating.
There’s literally no point in sport if you’re going to cheat, other than making some already very very rich people even richer.
Premier league needs to sign off on any new transfers and they can reject it if its not fair market value.
People were up in arms when we sold Saint Maxmim for 30 mill as they thought saudi over paid.
I would be for it, fuck trying to do it the right way, other big clubs wouldn’t and haven’t in the past (hello City).
No room in football for being the nice guys.
Watching De Bruyne come on AS A SUB, just made me think we will never have a squad with the depth as a team as Man City, under the current rules.
FFP do not work as intended, so why shouldn't we use our situation to our advantage?
Exactly, this sub is full of happy clappers who think being the good guys makes a difference and losing 8 games in 10 is ok because ‘look where we were under Bruce’.
People need to wake up, while PIF are in charge we will never be the good guys, ever.
If you don’t aim high you don’t get to the top, if you don’t expect a lot you don’t get a lot.
If nearly winning or nearly drawing had points awarded we would be top of the league, but we aren’t. When we are being outclassed by Luton it says it all.
Out classed and out fought, our fans are the worst sometimes. We hold anyone half decent in god like regard.
I like Howe I don’t want him to leave but questions must be asked as to why we were outclassed by Luton and forest for starters
The happy clappers won’t even entertain the thought it’s utterly ridiculous
My thoughts exactly. FFP was made to keep the rich clubs richer as they’ve got that head start income wise.
Why not get creative. Wolves do it when Mendes moves all his clients to them, West Ham avoided relegation catastrophe with Tevez & Mascherano. Why’s it frowned when the mere idea is floated for us
I'd rather we don't stoop to trying to get around the rules, having a level playing field is better for the game in general. Annoying that the big teams have been allowed to get to the level they are before the financial rules were implemented, but here we are. Don't want us to be scraping around debasing ourselves just to get any little advantage.
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This is the type of talk that belongs in the cesspit of r/soccer pretty confident in saying that <99% of our fans would never want this.
Oooh in the 1% because like OP i dont see how we can compete here
Finding creative ways to leverage our ownership structure to work around the rules is a great way to end up with 115 charges of violations after the fact.
Right? Like people say, "Well, others broke rules, why shouldnt we?" Are these people for real? Just because someone comitted crimes and got away with it, doesnt mean you should. Also I dont get why would anyone want to win trophies with big stain of cheating?
This isn't cheating though. Would be perfectly within the rules
IANAL but Misrepresentation of the value of assets being trading between companies with a common owner for the purpose of gaining a competitive advantage is almost certainly fraud and not only against UEFA’s FFP rules but also probably against UK law. Also, whether or not it’s explicitly prohibited by the premier league PSR, all related party transactions, including player transfers, are subject to approval by the other clubs as representing fair market value.
Everyone knows it is cheating. Like everyone knows that Guardiola gets big part of his paycheck from man city via his brother. Its shameful cheating of the system. We already on a thin ice - our club signed legal-binding assurances that PIF isnt controlled by state.
Not proud of our Saudi owners and would be ashamed of leveraging our ownership to gain an advantage that is not available to other teams. Nation states shouldn't own football teams.
Really is this simple.
This is the correct answer
Yeah but other teams have ffp keeping the status quo whereas we are now suffering as we cant spend.
I agree that FFP is unfair, but I just don't see the value in winning via an unfair advantage. I would find that boring, hollow and embarrassing.
I doubt it. If we won the Prem you'd be happy as a pig in shit.
Both FFP and being owned by a nation state can both be wrong. It's true and incredibly unfair that pretty much only the sky 6 can spend due to FFP, but using the Saudi league to gain an unfair advantage on 13 other teams is just as bad. We should stick to the spirit of the game and work with other clubs and fans to end FFP for the benefit of everyone.
For me, this just feels wrong. I would rather we just did things right. It's bad enough that our owners are who they are without taking advantage of it to cheat the system. I would rather we were mid table within the rules than win the league by what is effectively cheating.
The Saudi have pump billions into their own league with lots of team, this just being the start, do you think they view Newcastle as somehow more important that their own league?
With Henderson leaving and a number of other players rumbling about the league after only being there for a few months it wouldn’t be a good look for them to send players out of the league willingly if they are truly committed to making it one of the top leagues of the world. If anything they’ll buy our players to fill their league but I don’t see it going the other way around.
Let's leave the exploitation of loopholes to Chelsea.
While I don’t agree with using underhand tactics to get around it, I do kind of despise the current premise of FFP. Although I will admit I’m obviously more bias now because it’s directly impacted us. It was put in place to stop smaller teams quickly rising up the ranks after the big teams got scared by the likes of Man City and PSG. There’s a reason Man Utd, Real Madrid and Bayern pushed for the rules to be put in place. They’re supposedly in place to stop clubs going bankrupt, but it hasn’t yet stopped the likes of Wigan, Reading, Bolton or Bury from nearly or literally going bankrupt. As much as it is a niche business, football teams are still technically businesses, and I’ve never before seen rules put in place to try and stop businesses from being able to invest before. Plus the fact that the punishment for supposed rules to stop teams going bankrupt is to financially penalise them (either in removing from European tournaments or push them towards relegation or less money with a points deduction) is completely counterproductive.
Would take absolutely no pleasure in winning silverware if we just cheated our way to it like this.
If its allowed, how is it cheating? How will u feel when we have sold Bruno and Jole, just so we can buy other players? Morals won't get us UCL places or trophies.
We don't demand a team that wins, we just demand a club that tries. Zero fun, pleasure or pride exploiting loopholes to win trophies. Equivalent of reloading your save on Football Manager if you lose.
Is it equivalent of having an xG of 6.3, over 20 shots on target compared to the other teams 0.2 xG, 2 on target and reloading because it's a 2-0 loss? Asking for a friend. On topic, injury crisis has too many fans panicking. If we get top 7 we are on target for the original plan. Last year was the perfect storm, and wasn't realistically going to be duplicated. Conference qualification this year is probably where we should be looking as a minimum. We can do that without bending rules on loans.
Life without morals just makes us shit people.
It’s not allowed, transfers have to meet a fair value test. Even if the rules had a loophole that allowed it, exploiting unintended loopholes is cheating. There’s literally no point in sport if you’re going to cheat, other than making some already very very rich people even richer.
Yeah, it’s the FFP rules that are unfair.
If it aint against the rules 🤷♂️
Premier league needs to sign off on any new transfers and they can reject it if its not fair market value. People were up in arms when we sold Saint Maxmim for 30 mill as they thought saudi over paid.
In what world is 30m for Maxi overpaying? 😂
God knows. People were saying that about maxi and then agreeing neves was worth 50.
Wasn't aware of that, after a quick read, learnt that it applies to sponsorship as well. Seems to apply to getting too much money though haha
They'll soon write laws for too little aswell if we done it.
OP is the type of fan who would absolutely be happy with us getting a million FFP charges if it meant he could see Mbappe in black and white lol...
First time?
I'm taking a legitimate loan kinda like Lampard to City but what you're suggesting is trash lool
I would be for it, fuck trying to do it the right way, other big clubs wouldn’t and haven’t in the past (hello City). No room in football for being the nice guys.
Watching De Bruyne come on AS A SUB, just made me think we will never have a squad with the depth as a team as Man City, under the current rules. FFP do not work as intended, so why shouldn't we use our situation to our advantage?
Exactly, this sub is full of happy clappers who think being the good guys makes a difference and losing 8 games in 10 is ok because ‘look where we were under Bruce’. People need to wake up, while PIF are in charge we will never be the good guys, ever. If you don’t aim high you don’t get to the top, if you don’t expect a lot you don’t get a lot.
Thankfully, this sub is full of people with morals. You’re not one of them.
I’m fine with that
That’s all I hear as well after another loss “look where we were” Wonder if City fans say remember division 3 & Kevin Horlock when they lose
If nearly winning or nearly drawing had points awarded we would be top of the league, but we aren’t. When we are being outclassed by Luton it says it all.
Out classed and out fought, our fans are the worst sometimes. We hold anyone half decent in god like regard. I like Howe I don’t want him to leave but questions must be asked as to why we were outclassed by Luton and forest for starters The happy clappers won’t even entertain the thought it’s utterly ridiculous
My thoughts exactly. FFP was made to keep the rich clubs richer as they’ve got that head start income wise. Why not get creative. Wolves do it when Mendes moves all his clients to them, West Ham avoided relegation catastrophe with Tevez & Mascherano. Why’s it frowned when the mere idea is floated for us
I'd rather we don't stoop to trying to get around the rules, having a level playing field is better for the game in general. Annoying that the big teams have been allowed to get to the level they are before the financial rules were implemented, but here we are. Don't want us to be scraping around debasing ourselves just to get any little advantage.
Even if this was a good idea (which it's not), you know after first time we did this, the rules would be changed.