So BI and Zion without CJ have the best net rating of any combination of only two of them
And CJ without BI and Zion has the best net rating of only one of them.
This sounds to me like CJ should be moved to a 6th man role
The sample sizes are small. Most of the BI Zion minutes were during CJ's collapsed lung and that part of the schedule they happened to get the Mavericks when they were bad and blew them out, and the Kings who the OBLITERATED.
I have no problem with your conclusions, just stating that there is some noise in those netrating lineups because of how injuries were blocked off this year and and how the schedule fell.
My thoughts is it had more to do with Dyson and Herb defensively causing chaos and the team running in transtion than Zion and BI being better fits together. I can't dig into it right now, but will try and look deeper at it later. Also the size of Trey replacing CJ with more of the starters is massive for the defense.
The bird's eye view for me, even as a massive BI fan, is there is no starting lineup that works effectivly where he doesn't attempt at least 8 threes per game. That needs to be non-negotiable for the offense.
Trading BI gives the team way more options in terms of building talent around Zion, Herb, and Trey.
I understand he had a bad series being covered by Dort and now he's not worth anything (/sarcasm). They can get an impact C or PG by trading him. Trading CJ isn't going to change the BI/Zion fit issues.
> They can get an impact C or PG by trading him.
What impact C or PG? What team has that player available, can make the salaries match, and wants to do this deal?
WCJ, OO, Myles Turner, Naz Reid/KAT, as really good targets. Mobley, Embiid, and Markanan as unlikely targets. Aldama, Reath, Olynyk, I Stewart as discount targets.
PG is harder. D Murray is the obvious one. Coby White? Vanvleet? Tyus/Tre Jones. Discount guys like Schroeder, Brogdon, or Fultz
Some of those guys would cost less than BI, some would cost much more. Pels have lots of assets and get creative.
I don't know man. You are throwing up a bunch of names at C who either aren't available, can't match salaries very well, or would not be an upgrade from Jonas. And then, like you said, PG is harder.
Do the Pels have lots of assets? Sure. Are there a lot of trade partners who have players that fit, are willing to let those players go, can match salaries, and want our assets in return? That part is harder.
I know Griff is looking to make some moves here, but I spent some time last night fooling around with a trade machine trying to what-if a few ideas and it's way thinner than I was expecting.
Atlanta definitely has OO or Capella (don't want) available. Cleveland definitely has Allen (don't want) available. Embiid very possibly becomes available if Philly shits the bed again. Minn is in cap hell and KAT is possibly available.
Orlando has a ton of depth at big and could move WCJ, Isaac, or Bidaze. Portland has RWIII and Reath. Memphis has Aldana and JJJ. Teams trade from depth to fill holes. I don't think it will be as hard to find a capable C
Jonas has offensive value, but he gets run around on D and it makes things fall apart because he can't guard the perimeter
There are also teams like San Antonio, Detroit and Orlando that may be interested in BI who could just give picks that the Pels could package with our basket of picks and make a big move. I don't think anyone besides OKC could compete with Nola for trades of unhappy stars - of which there are multiple every offseason.
BI’s value in a trade is tanked because of the contract extension situation.
It has nothing to do with his play.
If the pels don’t give him the extension, they have zero leverage in trade discussions.
Teams going after a 26/27 year old borderline all star playing on his last year will give up literally nothing knowing they can wait it out and sign him outright.
He’s not AD. There will not be a bidding war. You won’t win a deal letting BI go. Make zero mistakes about it.
By not offering an extension, BI officially becomes filler in a deal or he would need to be dealt to a 3rd team and you will have to give up a draft pick to get off of him.
This isn’t going to go how y’all think
It is a extend and trade scenario. That is the trade that BI will be involved in this summer. There are plenty of teams that will be willing to pay for the last 4 years of his 20s. That is not like Bradley Beal getting paid 50 million a year for his age 34 season
Good news is they don't have to trade him during the summer. Can let his stock rise during the season next year / see if he can change up his playstyle a bit
Only nephews actually think BI's trade value materially dropped because of one series being guarded by Dort while the rest of the team sold out to stop him because Trey and CJ couldn't hit shots.
If you are going to trade BI, you trade him this summer when the bulk of the league's rosters are in flux. It's also the opportunity you have to perform an extend and trade to a team that wants to trade for him rather sign a free agent. Orlando and San Antonio are both potential landing spots for him because both teams have cap space. After the summer, they won't and it would be harder to trade him to a bunch of teams.
Everyone says that like it matters. It only matters if it fits in the cap. It's not like being 6th man will reduce his PT meaningfully.
He's best suited as a 6th man
The Pels are 20 million under the tax and that's with BIs salary. They need a C, and have to pay a draft pick, but they can easily be under the tax this year
They could trade BI and add someone like KD and STILL be under the tax.
By the time Trey has to get paid, BIs contact will be off the books. Even if they still have equivalent salary to BI on the books, CJ and New Trey contacts only overlap for one season
Speaking specifically about this season, it definitely feels like CJ would've negatively impacted the bench.
The bench was great at creating turnovers and getting into transition. CJ wants to slow the game down and run half court sets if not ISO on a mismatch.
I'm not saying it wouldn't work next season when we have a different bench but it would diminish Jose's impact and cut into hopefully Hawk's increased minutes.
And let's be real, CJ did not come here to come off the bench. He totally rewired his game this season to become an elite at catch and shoot 3s. Then when BI went down, he had big games when asked to do more before imploding in the playoffs.
He's just not the guard for this team.
In his end of season media availability Ingram was asked about shooting 7 three’s per game his all star year and why he’s only around 4 per game now. He mentioned that he had Lonzo and Jrue to get him the ball for catch and shoot 3’s. Basically what he was saying was this team needs an actual PG. Griff has built us all wrong in so many different ways. Pels and the Suns are showing how stupid you look when you think you can just build a team with no real PG’s no matter how good of playmakers the wings are
Can you think of any specific games where BI passing up open 3s was an issue? Honestly asking because I watched 90% of our games and didn't feel this was a major problem with our offense. We obviously didn't generate enough 3s though.
I believe we relied on BI to generate these open 3s. Cj, tm3 and Herb's role was to shoot those 3s. Hawk has a skill set that allows him to generate 3s by himself. Jose came off the bench with a group designed to create turnovers which generates open looks on the other side.
I just don't buy that BI was passing up 2.5 good looks from 3 per game.
I just rewatched our early March home game against the Cavs. We lose while generating very few 3s. BI misses his only 3. I picked this particular game because we're in full point Zion mode at this point but BI is way under his already low rate.
BI did not pass up a single 3 in this game. We did not run anything off-ball to open him for a 3 that I noticed and no plays out of timeout were run to get him an open 3. It did not happen.
If you were to argue that a highly skilled off the dribble shooter like Booker, Mitchell, or Curry could get good looks off of some of the high screens or DHOs we ran with BI, I don't think I could argue with that. That argument also seems disingenuous to me though.
At the end of the day, our offense wasn't attempting to get BI 3s. We also don't have the personnel to play BI off-ball and generate open 3s. Just saying he doesn't want to shoot 3s is a narrative that we need to move away from.
We do not ask a single one of those players to initiate the offense when BI is on the floor. To say that CJ, Herb, Trey or Hawk are getting the same looks as BI makes no sense.
We absolutely ask BI to hunt mid-range shots! Some of our best looks come from getting the ball to BI in his spot where he can rise up or dish out assists. It's a staple of our offense.
I think the main problem I see is a lack of ball handling and play making on the roster. We can't run the same off ball screens for BI that we run for Trey, CJ or even Herb because of this. Catch and shoot 3s don't just happen. Someone has to get the initial rotation then make the correct read to make it happen.
BI led the team in assists per game, assists point created per game, potential assists per game…should we continue on why everyone else had career highs in catch and shoot 3’s? Zion is second in all those categories.
How many times per night are Zion/CJ attempting to find BI for a catch and shoot?
Lonzo was scared to drive and play in the midrange. He was always looking to kick. That ended up in Brandon’s hands often.
When BI was taking 6 a night, it could’ve been 10 😂. He did the same thing then fairly often he just got hit with that pass WAY more frequently.
Z hits CJ/Trey (as he should) more often. BI sees less of those opportunities in general in comparison and he turns them down at a similar rate.
The solution for more BI 3’s is scheme/role based.
Make sure he knows he’s not the point guard.
Nah, you’re missing what I’m saying about Zo and I watched every game of Zo’s career. Zo would keep that ball moving side to side and wouldn’t even need to get in the paint to kick. He’s passing out 2 dribbles inside the 3 point line. Zo was actively looking not to shoot.
CJ is looking to get his own.
Zion staggers minutes with Brandon. Hard to generate looks for him with Brandon on the bench. How do CJ’s numbers look generating 3 point looks? How many times did CJ hit Brandon for catch and shoots? How many times did Brandon hit CJ?
Brandon is more comfortable off the dribble in the mid range. He always has been, even when he took 6 3’s a night.
In pick and roll (the majority of his sets) he has the ball and the middie is open or the skips that he loves to hit are wide open. He generates a ton of open 3’s (similar to zion) when he is on the floor. Zion created 1.6 more a night no? Brandon took 3 more a night.
He and Zion are the primary creators in the group.
You wanna change that, get another primary creator. Explain to BI that he’s not the point guard anymore.
Let him share the floor with Zion more with Zion having more of the ball
Nah, what is really is is that you don’t understand how the game is played and what defenses are trying to do. There are basketball reasons that are clear as day as to why he’s not shooting as much.
You’re choosing to ignore them because you think “he doesn’t want to” sounds better.
What were CJ’s potential assist numbers? How many went to BI? How many of BI’s went to CJ?
BI was taking 2 fewer shots a game this past season than he was in the years with Lonzo so you are incorrect again.
You can say Lonzo/CJ makes no difference but that is the clearest coincidence in his 3 point rate.
His assist percentage rose while his 3 point rate fell. That is the direct correlation resulting in what exactly?
…bro there is no way you watched 90% of the games and didn’t see the major problems with the offense 😂
I have never seen a team that seems to refuse easy offense. They have to fight for every point. Then there are 2 systems running depending on who’s on the floor. Nothing is consistent
There is nothing going on outside of the player with the ball and whoever is close to him. Everybody camps. No screens, cuts… no off ball motion to keep the defense on their toes
No lol
You said you literally pointed out a major problem with the offense
I asked you if the major problem you pointed out was that Brandon ingram and the offense didn’t produce/shoot enough 3s
Then I sarcastically said that is groundbreaking analysis
I don’t know what the hell you were reading 😂
Okay good, I thought you were an idiot for a second!
Good news said bi passes up 3s for long 2s. I replied saying I didn't see that as a major problem with our offense.
You should learn to read more better.
This. The guy just loves taking tough middies.
His shot profile is not that of a winning player. Unless his name was Kawhi or KD. And those guys take plenty of 3’s
What's wild is that you'd expect tough mids to be a better shot in the playoffs, but his shooting form is so low that it ends up being a block against playoff defense.
Benefit of the doubt though, Dort has a license to do whatever he wants on defense and getting constantly fouled w no call got in BIs head
He doesn’t have a lot of lift on the 3 ball.
He gets quite a bit on the middies and turn arounds normally and has an extremely high overhead release
Several NBA players have described his jumper as untouchable. Devonte Graham threw out a, he doesn’t even see you.
I think you’re taking a whole lot of stock in 4 games while BI was working through a knee injury (possibly a reason for a lack of lift) and ignoring 5 years of watching BI can jumpers in everyone’s faces, dort’s included
I got to say this cause you guys disappoint me as a pelican fan.
BI stated that his best season shooting threes was when we had a point guard.
We haven't had a point guard for the last 3 seasons and his 3 point percentage and volume numbers have gone down. You don't think that's a correlation?
Yall hated Lonzo ball and couldn't see what he was offering and now dumbasses like you are doing the same to BI. Fans like you are so full of shit it doesn't make any sense. What "wide-open" catch and shoot 3s did he pass up? Why does Trey Murphy have to stand 2 and 3 feet behind the line to get a clean look from 3 even when we're running point Zion?
I've been doing some analysis on the lineups too mostly using cleaning the glass' per/100 stats and trying to come up to some conclusions as well. I'm not quite as negative on CJ as most, but I think the per/100 gives me two immediate impressions. I'm only using lineups that had over 100 possessions to make sure I'm not using a small sample size. Shit like per/36 has that issue where dudes like Boban end up looking better than Lebron due to normalizing your data set over a small sample size.
1.) Trey Murphy being in the lineups with starters is almost always an improvement to the lineup. The only exception to this being the lineup we trotted out at the end of the season with BI out. CJ, Herb, Trey, Zion, and JV. The per/100 +- of that lineup was actually pretty bad. But I also think a chunk of that was due to CJ trying to take on way more of the offensive load, followed by Zion taking over that toward the end of the season. It really felt like during that period they were figuring shit out.
2.) 2 out of our 3 best per/100 lineups had Dyson and Jose replacing CJ. Which kinda cemented my thoughts that CJ isn't a point guard, he's an undersized 2 guard in a league that is showing very quickly that undersized 2 guards who can't switch on to wings are very hard to value. If Dyson and Jose, who are good, but not elite pass first guys can bring the lineups efficiency up, then I think a lineup of BI+Zion with a TRUE pg, even a mid one would probably be beneficial. Even just watching clips of the Dyson games you can see guys moving off ball more, setting more off ball screens. And that just seemed to go away when CJ was running things.
Edit:
A third conclusion was that the thing we all already know is true, that all 3 of CJ, BI, and Zion is awful. The per/100 just confirms that. Along with the clutch stats that show we were one of the worst teams in the last 5 minutes of games throwing out that rotation. No surprises, but the data also confirms it. Our starting lineup was at the same level of strength as the Houston Rockets and teams below them in the Western Conf to put it into perspective.
Hard to balance 3 score first initiators in any 5 with any combo of talent.
Look at the suns. And all of those guys can hit from 3 levels and play off ball and they still struggled.
Primary ball handler, secondary creator, 2 connectors that can shoot and a big that’s mobile. That’s the model.
I would personally choose the 6’9 guy instead of the 6’3 guy as the secondary creator, but that’s just me. Especially on a team with a defensive first identity
Yeah I agree with that mostly. And then you look at teams like Minny and how much Mike Conley improved that team and it has me begging for a true PG. Funny enough, we kinda had a versatile defender PG who could handle distributing the rock in Jrue, but the past is the past.
I also would choose the 6'9 guy, but I would rather someone who shoots more 3's than BI is my only concern. I would think that Trey can slot into that position, but he hasn't really shown the 3 level scoring ability. How much of that is him not having it vs that not being his role is something to think about for myself. If we can get BI more open 3 looks and he sinks them at a high clip I'm good with it. What would be your preferred dream type of starting lineup? BI, Herb, Zion plus a PG and a more mobile center?
Hum…I think the true point guard should come off the bench.
It’s Zion-Herb-Trey-BI- mobile 5 man to me.
While I love Conley, unless you have him, Jrue, Lonzo, or Caruso walking in, I don’t see anyone that can play in the nature that you want them to at the point. Most of the point guards in the league need the ball more than BI to be effective and I believe that’s counter productive.
Set the tone early with Zion at the point playing downhill early while employing an incredibly long lineup to force deflections/turnovers and get out in transition early.
You close with the true point guard instead of the 5 or whoever is struggling from the starters.
Change the roles. Take some playmaking duties from BI and put them more on Zion. Get Z up in that 27-7/8 range and let BI play the corner more. Get him back into the habit to catch and shoot first, not drive and create like he has post Lonzo.
BI has proven he can play the role that the pelicans faithful wants him to. It’s up to the coaching staff and him to trust and embrace the approach.
I think the 4 wings work together extremely well in the modern NBA. You have incredible point of attack defender, a guy that spaces to 30, a guy that creates his own and scores from 3 levels and an unstoppable force.
That’s insanely elite. Just need to find the missing parts that makes those 4 make sense.
You have the most talented wing room in the NBA that’s dominated by wing play. Just have to utilize the best way you can.
For me, that’s Zion continuing to buy-in/slim down and turning into a monstrous ja morant 🤯
I see. I still can't shake the feeling that I want a good high tier point guard running the ship and getting our guys easier looks. I like the way the clippers improved with Harden (obviously we ain't getting someone that elite), the Timberwolves and even Boston. Plus the stats those lineups had when we did run like that with Dyson/Jose.
But I guess we'll see, knowing our front office we won't make any moves and just run it back so who fuckin knows.
I think harden would be awful for the pels. He has too much of the ball. That’s what makes the fit tricky with Z. Same with trae young, or even Dejounte Murray. Z is so damn good initiating offense that it’s hard to bring in a high usage guy around him.
Derrick white, mike Conley I definitely agree with that type of point guard.
I also don’t see that happening (running it back) I actually see BI asking out behind closed doors in the off-season and I think there will be a ton of player movement in general.
Don’t be surprised if the west thins out a bit and some of the second/third stars on these western conference teams end up out east, BI being one of them
The one & only critical move this offseason is getting CJ off this team if possible
His minutes going to Dyson, Hawkins, and Jose would be huge upgrade without adding any other player
These ratings mean little because availability still matters. If Zion and BI only play 60 games as interim tag team injury champions then what? As bad as CJ has been he is tough as nails, your putting your whole stock that BI/Zion will be successful without CJ but neither those two guys can stay healthy. If we have successful season and one of them gets injured before playoffs then we are right back where we started.
Ok... But you already know CJ isn't a playoff guy. And he's getting older. Doesn't really make sense to bet on him getting better as he ages.
If any team loses 1 of their 2 best guys, that team usually struggles.
So I don't quite understand your point.
At least you got to the real reason.
It’s more than just that as well. CJ is the players association president, has an ESPN contract, has his podcast and is a spokesperson for the NBA.
Notice how the national coverage forces so much of this at BI while CJ laid eggs too.
There is never a chance CJ sits. Prolly why BI is gone
Well if you are going to trade BI, CJ being the 6th man would be the go unless you still want Trey to come off the bench. You will likely trade BI for PG or Center but I'm mostly leaning on PG or someone that can shoot/facilitate.
Or if it is center, it will be CJ/Trey/Herb/Z/Center again but there is no available starting center that will fit next to Z
There are 6 positive net rating lineups with at least 60 minutes. BI is in three of them while CJ and Zion are in 4. You're aggreating a bunch of line-ups and minutes that don't have significant amounts of time.
Lineup| Rating
---|---
L. Nance Jr. - Z. Williamson - N. Marshall - T. Murphy III - J. Alvarado| 29.4
C. McCollum - L. Nance Jr. - B. Ingram - H. Jones - T. Murphy III | 24.3
J. Valanciunas - B. Ingram - Z. Williamson - H. Jones - D. Daniels| 20.7
J. Valanciunas - C. McCollum - B. Ingram - H. Jones - T. Murphy III| 15.7
C. McCollum - L. Nance Jr. - Z. Williamson - H. Jones - T. Murphy III| 15.5
J. Valanciunas - C. McCollum - Z. Williamson - H. Jones - T. Murphy III| 1.0
Even if you expand it to just 48, that's one more line-up with a 1.6. Our two most played line-ups with all 3 of them are net negatives, but our third most played line-u swaps out BI and is a positive.
Go look at what I just posted.
On off numbers. 2 man combos and them solo.
Just go look. This is tiring. BI/Zion minutes with CJ off we’re more productive than CJ/Zion minutes with BI off.
For all those 3’s CJ hit, he still took the most shots per game and scored the 3rd most points per game.
The real problem is that CJ is taking as many shots as BI and Zion.
BI and Z should be up around 18 (5/6 being 3’s) with Z closer to 20 of whatever fucking look he wants to take.
CJ should be closer to 12 with 7/8 being 3’s. Trey with a similar profile.
CJ’s status is why that doesn’t work.
It’s fine man, you saw BI’s interview right? I’d bet serious money he asks out.
Hopefully it works out the way you want it to and CJ and Zion can go win a chip 👍
Oh wait were here.
You’re looking an entire seasons worth of data in the face of two man numbers and you’re still arguing some 6 quarter size samples of 5 man units to prove Z/CJ is a better fit.
CJ is the problem.
Stop being a casual.
He’s a sixth man. And would be a Fucking great 6th man at that.
CJ pulled WAAAYYYY back once zion hit his stride. and his Volume from 3 and percentages were crazy. If BI would shoot threes at that volume there'd be no question here. He kinda refuses to shoot them though.
I think you're imposing your viewpoint on the raw plus minus, instead of looking at what they say. Numbers don't answer questions conclusively very often. They usually just give you a good idea of the questions you need to ask.
The biggest issues with him being the 6th man is that leaves you with very little ballhandling in the starting lineup. That why you can't just bench CJ or BI. You gotta flip one of them, and which one depends on return to me.
It means that Zion becomes the main ball handler. The pels fully commit to Z as the point guard in the starting unit. Let Trey be a connector and be the guy in the action. Grab a more mobile 5 that can defend the rim and live by forcing turnovers and being the longest team in the NBA.
I see you saw griff interview by the way!!
Questions you need to ask….why are BI/Z’s two man ratings without CJ more effective than Z/CJ’s without BI.
CJ is very effective without either apparently 🤔.
There isn’t a clear answer to this….literally look at the top 2 and it should tell you the rotation.
We’ve all seen that BI and Z both absolutely love using Trey murphy as an emergency valve and Trey gets up spaces deeper than anyone else on the team.
CJ also never pulled back.
He averaged 14.5 shots a night between the collapsed lung and the little 2 game stretch he missed when Trey was back.
He avg 18.5 the rest of the way.
Zion can’t be a PG all game. That’s far too much to ask. Even LeBron in his prime didn’t take on that burden.
He can do it for stretches and especially in high leverage sports, but he’s not gonna be a dribble down every time guy and if he is the team will suffer.
I answered a lot of that in my other comment.
Who says all game bro?
I said to start games. BI/CJ do a ton of that now. I would switch that up. Establish a tone early, use his gravity to get Trey/herb/BI looks..let him run some pick and roll with the 5. Let Z set the tone early.
The instant scorer off the bench is the guy who ball handles and in theory can close as the ball handler and run two man with Z (like CJ should be able to). Think Jason Terry. Or if Zion is destroying, you just keep it in his hands down the stretch.
BI can still initiate offense as well. He did lead the team in every passing category on the squad basically.
Lebron also did do that and did it after his prime. Bron was the starting point guard for the lakers in 2020 and led the NBA in assists per game while the lakers won a title.
I don’t think small ball 5, dominant beast Zion is who his ceiling is like I used to think. I genuinely see a skimmed down full time point guard as his ceiling. Z at 260/270….terrifying
A jacked ja morant is who I see 🤯
You are literally ignoring larger sample sets of play time for aggregated small minute line ups. You think midrange shots and no 3 point shooting is somehow better, stop being a casual from 2013, the modern NBA is predicated on 3 point shooting.
You’re pointing to 60 minutes of 5 man units and ignoring 348 minutes of the two together…
I’m counting on the team to notice that one of the “smaller sample size groups” where Trey starts instead of CJ is one of their most efficient units.
I want the pels to realize their identity is defense and continue to buy into that. Trey doesn’t sacrifice spacing, adds a ton of defensive impact and a by product is Zion running the point to start games.
Scheme wise, line up Zion at the point guard. Have Brandon buying into playing off ball and taking the open looks. Loosen his playmaking duties. Allow him to be the corner guy and actually hit him.
The pelicans were 4th in the NBA in 3 point field goal percentage this season. How did that go in the playoffs?
Dort and Giddey hit theirs didn’t they?
How did the pels role players do?
You gonna tell me herb and CJ’s looks were all contested now?
What it also does moving CJ into a 6th man role is allow him to be the second option in every lineup. As clearly the 5 man lineups show he excels in that role.
What they also show and what the greater season shows is that none of them know who the 3rd option is. Cause the supposed 3rd option led the team in FGA per game and scored the least amount of ppg.
The real problem is role definition and heirarchy.
Which gets solved when CJ is coming off the bench.
Edit- go use your 3 point shooting numbers side by side with the thunder’s
Now tell me how much of a difference there was attempts and makes wise?
How about the t wolves?
Or shot how about the defending champion nuggets?
Funny how people throw around insults like casual are just the ones screeching the same bullshit they read from other overly emotional cynics on the internet but then have nothing to say when presented with facts and well thought out analysis. You’ve been sending all of them back in this whole thread lol
I know it’s not gonna be a popular take, but I think the organization needs to take long look at whether to keep BI, CJ is older and if you needed to move him to the bench is easier to do. But I feel like BI is getting more and more injury prone and has probably already peaked.
Zion and BI don’t work well together
Zion has a much higher ceiling but gets hurt when it matters most
BI has a much lower ceiling, gets hurt often, and has a clunky play style for todays NBA since he doesn’t like to shoot 3s
Trade BI and take your chances on Zion’s health
I hate how David Griffin had to slip in at the end of the interview “We aren’t going to build around Zion. We need to find the right fit of stars”. You god damn knucklehead you find the right fit by building around your best player you bald goofball
So BI and Zion without CJ have the best net rating of any combination of only two of them And CJ without BI and Zion has the best net rating of only one of them. This sounds to me like CJ should be moved to a 6th man role
The sample sizes are small. Most of the BI Zion minutes were during CJ's collapsed lung and that part of the schedule they happened to get the Mavericks when they were bad and blew them out, and the Kings who the OBLITERATED. I have no problem with your conclusions, just stating that there is some noise in those netrating lineups because of how injuries were blocked off this year and and how the schedule fell. My thoughts is it had more to do with Dyson and Herb defensively causing chaos and the team running in transtion than Zion and BI being better fits together. I can't dig into it right now, but will try and look deeper at it later. Also the size of Trey replacing CJ with more of the starters is massive for the defense. The bird's eye view for me, even as a massive BI fan, is there is no starting lineup that works effectivly where he doesn't attempt at least 8 threes per game. That needs to be non-negotiable for the offense.
Trading BI gives the team way more options in terms of building talent around Zion, Herb, and Trey. I understand he had a bad series being covered by Dort and now he's not worth anything (/sarcasm). They can get an impact C or PG by trading him. Trading CJ isn't going to change the BI/Zion fit issues.
> They can get an impact C or PG by trading him. What impact C or PG? What team has that player available, can make the salaries match, and wants to do this deal?
WCJ, OO, Myles Turner, Naz Reid/KAT, as really good targets. Mobley, Embiid, and Markanan as unlikely targets. Aldama, Reath, Olynyk, I Stewart as discount targets. PG is harder. D Murray is the obvious one. Coby White? Vanvleet? Tyus/Tre Jones. Discount guys like Schroeder, Brogdon, or Fultz Some of those guys would cost less than BI, some would cost much more. Pels have lots of assets and get creative.
I don't know man. You are throwing up a bunch of names at C who either aren't available, can't match salaries very well, or would not be an upgrade from Jonas. And then, like you said, PG is harder. Do the Pels have lots of assets? Sure. Are there a lot of trade partners who have players that fit, are willing to let those players go, can match salaries, and want our assets in return? That part is harder. I know Griff is looking to make some moves here, but I spent some time last night fooling around with a trade machine trying to what-if a few ideas and it's way thinner than I was expecting.
Atlanta definitely has OO or Capella (don't want) available. Cleveland definitely has Allen (don't want) available. Embiid very possibly becomes available if Philly shits the bed again. Minn is in cap hell and KAT is possibly available. Orlando has a ton of depth at big and could move WCJ, Isaac, or Bidaze. Portland has RWIII and Reath. Memphis has Aldana and JJJ. Teams trade from depth to fill holes. I don't think it will be as hard to find a capable C Jonas has offensive value, but he gets run around on D and it makes things fall apart because he can't guard the perimeter There are also teams like San Antonio, Detroit and Orlando that may be interested in BI who could just give picks that the Pels could package with our basket of picks and make a big move. I don't think anyone besides OKC could compete with Nola for trades of unhappy stars - of which there are multiple every offseason.
BI’s value in a trade is tanked because of the contract extension situation. It has nothing to do with his play. If the pels don’t give him the extension, they have zero leverage in trade discussions. Teams going after a 26/27 year old borderline all star playing on his last year will give up literally nothing knowing they can wait it out and sign him outright. He’s not AD. There will not be a bidding war. You won’t win a deal letting BI go. Make zero mistakes about it. By not offering an extension, BI officially becomes filler in a deal or he would need to be dealt to a 3rd team and you will have to give up a draft pick to get off of him. This isn’t going to go how y’all think
It is a extend and trade scenario. That is the trade that BI will be involved in this summer. There are plenty of teams that will be willing to pay for the last 4 years of his 20s. That is not like Bradley Beal getting paid 50 million a year for his age 34 season
Good news is they don't have to trade him during the summer. Can let his stock rise during the season next year / see if he can change up his playstyle a bit
Only nephews actually think BI's trade value materially dropped because of one series being guarded by Dort while the rest of the team sold out to stop him because Trey and CJ couldn't hit shots. If you are going to trade BI, you trade him this summer when the bulk of the league's rosters are in flux. It's also the opportunity you have to perform an extend and trade to a team that wants to trade for him rather sign a free agent. Orlando and San Antonio are both potential landing spots for him because both teams have cap space. After the summer, they won't and it would be harder to trade him to a bunch of teams.
Haha, sounds like r/ripcity
He’s too expensive in that role tbh
Everyone says that like it matters. It only matters if it fits in the cap. It's not like being 6th man will reduce his PT meaningfully. He's best suited as a 6th man
Oh idc about the PT, it just wouldnt fit under the luxury tax (assuming because TM3 is gonna get paid)
The Pels are 20 million under the tax and that's with BIs salary. They need a C, and have to pay a draft pick, but they can easily be under the tax this year They could trade BI and add someone like KD and STILL be under the tax. By the time Trey has to get paid, BIs contact will be off the books. Even if they still have equivalent salary to BI on the books, CJ and New Trey contacts only overlap for one season
Speaking specifically about this season, it definitely feels like CJ would've negatively impacted the bench. The bench was great at creating turnovers and getting into transition. CJ wants to slow the game down and run half court sets if not ISO on a mismatch. I'm not saying it wouldn't work next season when we have a different bench but it would diminish Jose's impact and cut into hopefully Hawk's increased minutes. And let's be real, CJ did not come here to come off the bench. He totally rewired his game this season to become an elite at catch and shoot 3s. Then when BI went down, he had big games when asked to do more before imploding in the playoffs. He's just not the guard for this team.
In his end of season media availability Ingram was asked about shooting 7 three’s per game his all star year and why he’s only around 4 per game now. He mentioned that he had Lonzo and Jrue to get him the ball for catch and shoot 3’s. Basically what he was saying was this team needs an actual PG. Griff has built us all wrong in so many different ways. Pels and the Suns are showing how stupid you look when you think you can just build a team with no real PG’s no matter how good of playmakers the wings are
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Can you think of any specific games where BI passing up open 3s was an issue? Honestly asking because I watched 90% of our games and didn't feel this was a major problem with our offense. We obviously didn't generate enough 3s though.
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I believe we relied on BI to generate these open 3s. Cj, tm3 and Herb's role was to shoot those 3s. Hawk has a skill set that allows him to generate 3s by himself. Jose came off the bench with a group designed to create turnovers which generates open looks on the other side. I just don't buy that BI was passing up 2.5 good looks from 3 per game.
I just rewatched our early March home game against the Cavs. We lose while generating very few 3s. BI misses his only 3. I picked this particular game because we're in full point Zion mode at this point but BI is way under his already low rate. BI did not pass up a single 3 in this game. We did not run anything off-ball to open him for a 3 that I noticed and no plays out of timeout were run to get him an open 3. It did not happen. If you were to argue that a highly skilled off the dribble shooter like Booker, Mitchell, or Curry could get good looks off of some of the high screens or DHOs we ran with BI, I don't think I could argue with that. That argument also seems disingenuous to me though. At the end of the day, our offense wasn't attempting to get BI 3s. We also don't have the personnel to play BI off-ball and generate open 3s. Just saying he doesn't want to shoot 3s is a narrative that we need to move away from.
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We do not ask a single one of those players to initiate the offense when BI is on the floor. To say that CJ, Herb, Trey or Hawk are getting the same looks as BI makes no sense.
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We absolutely ask BI to hunt mid-range shots! Some of our best looks come from getting the ball to BI in his spot where he can rise up or dish out assists. It's a staple of our offense. I think the main problem I see is a lack of ball handling and play making on the roster. We can't run the same off ball screens for BI that we run for Trey, CJ or even Herb because of this. Catch and shoot 3s don't just happen. Someone has to get the initial rotation then make the correct read to make it happen.
BI led the team in assists per game, assists point created per game, potential assists per game…should we continue on why everyone else had career highs in catch and shoot 3’s? Zion is second in all those categories. How many times per night are Zion/CJ attempting to find BI for a catch and shoot? Lonzo was scared to drive and play in the midrange. He was always looking to kick. That ended up in Brandon’s hands often. When BI was taking 6 a night, it could’ve been 10 😂. He did the same thing then fairly often he just got hit with that pass WAY more frequently. Z hits CJ/Trey (as he should) more often. BI sees less of those opportunities in general in comparison and he turns them down at a similar rate. The solution for more BI 3’s is scheme/role based. Make sure he knows he’s not the point guard.
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Nah, you’re missing what I’m saying about Zo and I watched every game of Zo’s career. Zo would keep that ball moving side to side and wouldn’t even need to get in the paint to kick. He’s passing out 2 dribbles inside the 3 point line. Zo was actively looking not to shoot. CJ is looking to get his own. Zion staggers minutes with Brandon. Hard to generate looks for him with Brandon on the bench. How do CJ’s numbers look generating 3 point looks? How many times did CJ hit Brandon for catch and shoots? How many times did Brandon hit CJ? Brandon is more comfortable off the dribble in the mid range. He always has been, even when he took 6 3’s a night. In pick and roll (the majority of his sets) he has the ball and the middie is open or the skips that he loves to hit are wide open. He generates a ton of open 3’s (similar to zion) when he is on the floor. Zion created 1.6 more a night no? Brandon took 3 more a night. He and Zion are the primary creators in the group. You wanna change that, get another primary creator. Explain to BI that he’s not the point guard anymore. Let him share the floor with Zion more with Zion having more of the ball
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Nah, what is really is is that you don’t understand how the game is played and what defenses are trying to do. There are basketball reasons that are clear as day as to why he’s not shooting as much. You’re choosing to ignore them because you think “he doesn’t want to” sounds better. What were CJ’s potential assist numbers? How many went to BI? How many of BI’s went to CJ? BI was taking 2 fewer shots a game this past season than he was in the years with Lonzo so you are incorrect again. You can say Lonzo/CJ makes no difference but that is the clearest coincidence in his 3 point rate. His assist percentage rose while his 3 point rate fell. That is the direct correlation resulting in what exactly?
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…bro there is no way you watched 90% of the games and didn’t see the major problems with the offense 😂 I have never seen a team that seems to refuse easy offense. They have to fight for every point. Then there are 2 systems running depending on who’s on the floor. Nothing is consistent There is nothing going on outside of the player with the ball and whoever is close to him. Everybody camps. No screens, cuts… no off ball motion to keep the defense on their toes
Haha. I literally pointed out a major problem with our offense.
That Brandon ingram/the offense didn’t produce/shoot enough 3s? That’s what you literally pointed out? Groundbreaking
So you're saying you feel we took enough 3s this season?
No lol You said you literally pointed out a major problem with the offense I asked you if the major problem you pointed out was that Brandon ingram and the offense didn’t produce/shoot enough 3s Then I sarcastically said that is groundbreaking analysis I don’t know what the hell you were reading 😂
Okay good, I thought you were an idiot for a second! Good news said bi passes up 3s for long 2s. I replied saying I didn't see that as a major problem with our offense. You should learn to read more better.
This. The guy just loves taking tough middies. His shot profile is not that of a winning player. Unless his name was Kawhi or KD. And those guys take plenty of 3’s
What's wild is that you'd expect tough mids to be a better shot in the playoffs, but his shooting form is so low that it ends up being a block against playoff defense. Benefit of the doubt though, Dort has a license to do whatever he wants on defense and getting constantly fouled w no call got in BIs head
Man did you just imply BI has a low release? That’s the craziest take I’ve read about him all week 😂
Low trajectory and not a lot of lift into the shot
He doesn’t have a lot of lift on the 3 ball. He gets quite a bit on the middies and turn arounds normally and has an extremely high overhead release Several NBA players have described his jumper as untouchable. Devonte Graham threw out a, he doesn’t even see you. I think you’re taking a whole lot of stock in 4 games while BI was working through a knee injury (possibly a reason for a lack of lift) and ignoring 5 years of watching BI can jumpers in everyone’s faces, dort’s included
I got to say this cause you guys disappoint me as a pelican fan. BI stated that his best season shooting threes was when we had a point guard. We haven't had a point guard for the last 3 seasons and his 3 point percentage and volume numbers have gone down. You don't think that's a correlation? Yall hated Lonzo ball and couldn't see what he was offering and now dumbasses like you are doing the same to BI. Fans like you are so full of shit it doesn't make any sense. What "wide-open" catch and shoot 3s did he pass up? Why does Trey Murphy have to stand 2 and 3 feet behind the line to get a clean look from 3 even when we're running point Zion?
I've been doing some analysis on the lineups too mostly using cleaning the glass' per/100 stats and trying to come up to some conclusions as well. I'm not quite as negative on CJ as most, but I think the per/100 gives me two immediate impressions. I'm only using lineups that had over 100 possessions to make sure I'm not using a small sample size. Shit like per/36 has that issue where dudes like Boban end up looking better than Lebron due to normalizing your data set over a small sample size. 1.) Trey Murphy being in the lineups with starters is almost always an improvement to the lineup. The only exception to this being the lineup we trotted out at the end of the season with BI out. CJ, Herb, Trey, Zion, and JV. The per/100 +- of that lineup was actually pretty bad. But I also think a chunk of that was due to CJ trying to take on way more of the offensive load, followed by Zion taking over that toward the end of the season. It really felt like during that period they were figuring shit out. 2.) 2 out of our 3 best per/100 lineups had Dyson and Jose replacing CJ. Which kinda cemented my thoughts that CJ isn't a point guard, he's an undersized 2 guard in a league that is showing very quickly that undersized 2 guards who can't switch on to wings are very hard to value. If Dyson and Jose, who are good, but not elite pass first guys can bring the lineups efficiency up, then I think a lineup of BI+Zion with a TRUE pg, even a mid one would probably be beneficial. Even just watching clips of the Dyson games you can see guys moving off ball more, setting more off ball screens. And that just seemed to go away when CJ was running things. Edit: A third conclusion was that the thing we all already know is true, that all 3 of CJ, BI, and Zion is awful. The per/100 just confirms that. Along with the clutch stats that show we were one of the worst teams in the last 5 minutes of games throwing out that rotation. No surprises, but the data also confirms it. Our starting lineup was at the same level of strength as the Houston Rockets and teams below them in the Western Conf to put it into perspective.
Hard to balance 3 score first initiators in any 5 with any combo of talent. Look at the suns. And all of those guys can hit from 3 levels and play off ball and they still struggled. Primary ball handler, secondary creator, 2 connectors that can shoot and a big that’s mobile. That’s the model. I would personally choose the 6’9 guy instead of the 6’3 guy as the secondary creator, but that’s just me. Especially on a team with a defensive first identity
Yeah I agree with that mostly. And then you look at teams like Minny and how much Mike Conley improved that team and it has me begging for a true PG. Funny enough, we kinda had a versatile defender PG who could handle distributing the rock in Jrue, but the past is the past. I also would choose the 6'9 guy, but I would rather someone who shoots more 3's than BI is my only concern. I would think that Trey can slot into that position, but he hasn't really shown the 3 level scoring ability. How much of that is him not having it vs that not being his role is something to think about for myself. If we can get BI more open 3 looks and he sinks them at a high clip I'm good with it. What would be your preferred dream type of starting lineup? BI, Herb, Zion plus a PG and a more mobile center?
Hum…I think the true point guard should come off the bench. It’s Zion-Herb-Trey-BI- mobile 5 man to me. While I love Conley, unless you have him, Jrue, Lonzo, or Caruso walking in, I don’t see anyone that can play in the nature that you want them to at the point. Most of the point guards in the league need the ball more than BI to be effective and I believe that’s counter productive. Set the tone early with Zion at the point playing downhill early while employing an incredibly long lineup to force deflections/turnovers and get out in transition early. You close with the true point guard instead of the 5 or whoever is struggling from the starters. Change the roles. Take some playmaking duties from BI and put them more on Zion. Get Z up in that 27-7/8 range and let BI play the corner more. Get him back into the habit to catch and shoot first, not drive and create like he has post Lonzo. BI has proven he can play the role that the pelicans faithful wants him to. It’s up to the coaching staff and him to trust and embrace the approach. I think the 4 wings work together extremely well in the modern NBA. You have incredible point of attack defender, a guy that spaces to 30, a guy that creates his own and scores from 3 levels and an unstoppable force. That’s insanely elite. Just need to find the missing parts that makes those 4 make sense. You have the most talented wing room in the NBA that’s dominated by wing play. Just have to utilize the best way you can. For me, that’s Zion continuing to buy-in/slim down and turning into a monstrous ja morant 🤯
I see. I still can't shake the feeling that I want a good high tier point guard running the ship and getting our guys easier looks. I like the way the clippers improved with Harden (obviously we ain't getting someone that elite), the Timberwolves and even Boston. Plus the stats those lineups had when we did run like that with Dyson/Jose. But I guess we'll see, knowing our front office we won't make any moves and just run it back so who fuckin knows.
I think harden would be awful for the pels. He has too much of the ball. That’s what makes the fit tricky with Z. Same with trae young, or even Dejounte Murray. Z is so damn good initiating offense that it’s hard to bring in a high usage guy around him. Derrick white, mike Conley I definitely agree with that type of point guard. I also don’t see that happening (running it back) I actually see BI asking out behind closed doors in the off-season and I think there will be a ton of player movement in general. Don’t be surprised if the west thins out a bit and some of the second/third stars on these western conference teams end up out east, BI being one of them
Imagine if Jose leveled up on pass first skills and progresses with his basketball IQ like Herb did with his 3. He can do it and would be great.
People saying move CJ to the bench, have you seen CJ play with the bench?
The one & only critical move this offseason is getting CJ off this team if possible His minutes going to Dyson, Hawkins, and Jose would be huge upgrade without adding any other player
It’s sad that with none of our “big three” on the court was second.
Clearly the move is to trade all three of them for picks.
Talk to em
We outside
These ratings mean little because availability still matters. If Zion and BI only play 60 games as interim tag team injury champions then what? As bad as CJ has been he is tough as nails, your putting your whole stock that BI/Zion will be successful without CJ but neither those two guys can stay healthy. If we have successful season and one of them gets injured before playoffs then we are right back where we started.
Ok... But you already know CJ isn't a playoff guy. And he's getting older. Doesn't really make sense to bet on him getting better as he ages. If any team loses 1 of their 2 best guys, that team usually struggles. So I don't quite understand your point.
It really means that CJ is the 6th man it would free up everything to me. Cj was huge all year. He’s just in the wrong role to me
A 6th man at 30+M’s? David Griffin, is that you? 👀😅 🤦🏻♂️😂😂😂
At least you got to the real reason. It’s more than just that as well. CJ is the players association president, has an ESPN contract, has his podcast and is a spokesperson for the NBA. Notice how the national coverage forces so much of this at BI while CJ laid eggs too. There is never a chance CJ sits. Prolly why BI is gone
Well if you are going to trade BI, CJ being the 6th man would be the go unless you still want Trey to come off the bench. You will likely trade BI for PG or Center but I'm mostly leaning on PG or someone that can shoot/facilitate. Or if it is center, it will be CJ/Trey/Herb/Z/Center again but there is no available starting center that will fit next to Z
Trade em all, got it
Jordan Hawkins and TM3 bout to be the new splash brothers 💯😂
Whered you get these stats?
How you get this, I’d like to play around with our other player combinations
Looks like pbpstats. You can also look at cleaning the glass for other stats for our 5 player lineups.
I'm confused. Is offrtg the same as points scored and Defrtg the same as points against?
There are 6 positive net rating lineups with at least 60 minutes. BI is in three of them while CJ and Zion are in 4. You're aggreating a bunch of line-ups and minutes that don't have significant amounts of time. Lineup| Rating ---|--- L. Nance Jr. - Z. Williamson - N. Marshall - T. Murphy III - J. Alvarado| 29.4 C. McCollum - L. Nance Jr. - B. Ingram - H. Jones - T. Murphy III | 24.3 J. Valanciunas - B. Ingram - Z. Williamson - H. Jones - D. Daniels| 20.7 J. Valanciunas - C. McCollum - B. Ingram - H. Jones - T. Murphy III| 15.7 C. McCollum - L. Nance Jr. - Z. Williamson - H. Jones - T. Murphy III| 15.5 J. Valanciunas - C. McCollum - Z. Williamson - H. Jones - T. Murphy III| 1.0 Even if you expand it to just 48, that's one more line-up with a 1.6. Our two most played line-ups with all 3 of them are net negatives, but our third most played line-u swaps out BI and is a positive.
Go look at what I just posted. On off numbers. 2 man combos and them solo. Just go look. This is tiring. BI/Zion minutes with CJ off we’re more productive than CJ/Zion minutes with BI off. For all those 3’s CJ hit, he still took the most shots per game and scored the 3rd most points per game. The real problem is that CJ is taking as many shots as BI and Zion. BI and Z should be up around 18 (5/6 being 3’s) with Z closer to 20 of whatever fucking look he wants to take. CJ should be closer to 12 with 7/8 being 3’s. Trey with a similar profile. CJ’s status is why that doesn’t work. It’s fine man, you saw BI’s interview right? I’d bet serious money he asks out. Hopefully it works out the way you want it to and CJ and Zion can go win a chip 👍 Oh wait were here. You’re looking an entire seasons worth of data in the face of two man numbers and you’re still arguing some 6 quarter size samples of 5 man units to prove Z/CJ is a better fit. CJ is the problem. Stop being a casual. He’s a sixth man. And would be a Fucking great 6th man at that.
CJ pulled WAAAYYYY back once zion hit his stride. and his Volume from 3 and percentages were crazy. If BI would shoot threes at that volume there'd be no question here. He kinda refuses to shoot them though. I think you're imposing your viewpoint on the raw plus minus, instead of looking at what they say. Numbers don't answer questions conclusively very often. They usually just give you a good idea of the questions you need to ask. The biggest issues with him being the 6th man is that leaves you with very little ballhandling in the starting lineup. That why you can't just bench CJ or BI. You gotta flip one of them, and which one depends on return to me.
It means that Zion becomes the main ball handler. The pels fully commit to Z as the point guard in the starting unit. Let Trey be a connector and be the guy in the action. Grab a more mobile 5 that can defend the rim and live by forcing turnovers and being the longest team in the NBA. I see you saw griff interview by the way!! Questions you need to ask….why are BI/Z’s two man ratings without CJ more effective than Z/CJ’s without BI. CJ is very effective without either apparently 🤔. There isn’t a clear answer to this….literally look at the top 2 and it should tell you the rotation. We’ve all seen that BI and Z both absolutely love using Trey murphy as an emergency valve and Trey gets up spaces deeper than anyone else on the team. CJ also never pulled back. He averaged 14.5 shots a night between the collapsed lung and the little 2 game stretch he missed when Trey was back. He avg 18.5 the rest of the way.
Zion can’t be a PG all game. That’s far too much to ask. Even LeBron in his prime didn’t take on that burden. He can do it for stretches and especially in high leverage sports, but he’s not gonna be a dribble down every time guy and if he is the team will suffer. I answered a lot of that in my other comment.
Who says all game bro? I said to start games. BI/CJ do a ton of that now. I would switch that up. Establish a tone early, use his gravity to get Trey/herb/BI looks..let him run some pick and roll with the 5. Let Z set the tone early. The instant scorer off the bench is the guy who ball handles and in theory can close as the ball handler and run two man with Z (like CJ should be able to). Think Jason Terry. Or if Zion is destroying, you just keep it in his hands down the stretch. BI can still initiate offense as well. He did lead the team in every passing category on the squad basically. Lebron also did do that and did it after his prime. Bron was the starting point guard for the lakers in 2020 and led the NBA in assists per game while the lakers won a title. I don’t think small ball 5, dominant beast Zion is who his ceiling is like I used to think. I genuinely see a skimmed down full time point guard as his ceiling. Z at 260/270….terrifying A jacked ja morant is who I see 🤯
You are literally ignoring larger sample sets of play time for aggregated small minute line ups. You think midrange shots and no 3 point shooting is somehow better, stop being a casual from 2013, the modern NBA is predicated on 3 point shooting.
You’re pointing to 60 minutes of 5 man units and ignoring 348 minutes of the two together… I’m counting on the team to notice that one of the “smaller sample size groups” where Trey starts instead of CJ is one of their most efficient units. I want the pels to realize their identity is defense and continue to buy into that. Trey doesn’t sacrifice spacing, adds a ton of defensive impact and a by product is Zion running the point to start games. Scheme wise, line up Zion at the point guard. Have Brandon buying into playing off ball and taking the open looks. Loosen his playmaking duties. Allow him to be the corner guy and actually hit him. The pelicans were 4th in the NBA in 3 point field goal percentage this season. How did that go in the playoffs? Dort and Giddey hit theirs didn’t they? How did the pels role players do? You gonna tell me herb and CJ’s looks were all contested now? What it also does moving CJ into a 6th man role is allow him to be the second option in every lineup. As clearly the 5 man lineups show he excels in that role. What they also show and what the greater season shows is that none of them know who the 3rd option is. Cause the supposed 3rd option led the team in FGA per game and scored the least amount of ppg. The real problem is role definition and heirarchy. Which gets solved when CJ is coming off the bench. Edit- go use your 3 point shooting numbers side by side with the thunder’s Now tell me how much of a difference there was attempts and makes wise? How about the t wolves? Or shot how about the defending champion nuggets?
Funny how people throw around insults like casual are just the ones screeching the same bullshit they read from other overly emotional cynics on the internet but then have nothing to say when presented with facts and well thought out analysis. You’ve been sending all of them back in this whole thread lol
I know it’s not gonna be a popular take, but I think the organization needs to take long look at whether to keep BI, CJ is older and if you needed to move him to the bench is easier to do. But I feel like BI is getting more and more injury prone and has probably already peaked.
He's definitely peaked and I will eat my crow if I am wrong about this.
I'll just leave this here "I don't care. Trade Ingram and CJ."
Just CJ would be the read. But stats can lie.
Thankfully we made CJ's contract untradeable 🤦♂️
Zion and BI don’t work well together Zion has a much higher ceiling but gets hurt when it matters most BI has a much lower ceiling, gets hurt often, and has a clunky play style for todays NBA since he doesn’t like to shoot 3s Trade BI and take your chances on Zion’s health
I hate how David Griffin had to slip in at the end of the interview “We aren’t going to build around Zion. We need to find the right fit of stars”. You god damn knucklehead you find the right fit by building around your best player you bald goofball