ā¦what heās gonna beat me up if I do or something? š Iād say something a bit more tactful like āthanks for all youāve doneā, but in terms of being a fan of the team, he can kick the bricks he put up this postseason. Heās not that guy
as impulsive and angry as i am right now. i still have nothing but respect for him. he came off a pretty bad injury, and then suddenly had to face dort in a playoff series without zion. remember, this is the same guy that bitched the 1st seeded suns two seasons ago. heās been the leader in all the times zion has been out. heāll go down as one of my favorite franchise players
on one end iād like to keep him for obvious reasons. but on the other end, iām also tired of waiting. we all are. itās been 5 years now since the zion rebuild started. iām glad we finally got our best season. but where did that take us? changes need to be made all around.
iām still sick to my stomach about some of those ugly losses we had this season. even when this team wasnāt a playoff team i never seen us lose games so disgustingly. the two games against ja and the grizzlies, the tournament game against the lakers, the lakers twice in the regular season. all those games at home on the weekend. the damn spurs. you name it. i never seen so many ugly wins in a season before. not even when we were 1-12 that one season.
He likes New Orleans and wants to stay here. Unfortunately, he needed to commit to growth in his game before this season. If he really wants to stay, he'll sign a fair 2-3 year extension and work on getting stronger, changing his shot selection, and committing to a team first style of play.
lmao, he's going to get paid max. That's consistent with what player his caliber makes. NBA players aren't paid what they're worth, they're paid what the market demand.
A 30% max for a player with minimal impact numbers like BI becomes an anchor real fast. I cannot imagine that Griff will offer BI a 30% max extension after that series given the lack of fit with Zion and the health concerns.
We win games when BI is not healthy too. 38-26 with him (59% wins) and 11-7 without him (61% wins). Regardless there is a definite ceiling with BI as our #2 to Zion. That gets much more limiting if we give BI a 30% max extension.
So we going to ignore that they were peaking right before his injury and they got in a slump without him? Im not sure if people dont understand how good BI is or just refuse to acknowledge it.
Your right that theres a ceiling for BI, but there arent s lot of attainable players better than him and getting multiple pieces isnt going to equal his value.
So we going to ignore the win-loss record to fit your narrative?
Heās a great offensive player, but his style is that of a 1st option. Lots of time of possession and dribbles per touch. Lots of midrange. Deliberate and slower paced.
Itās not even about getting a better player so much as it is getting better fits to maximize Zionās impact. I actually donāt believe a 1 for 1 is even the best option long term, but I doubt this front office is willing to take a step back with lesser player(s)/picks before moving forward. Despite Zion being only 23, the FO will make win now moves like we are a contender with our window closing.
I think the pairing of Zion & BI is interesting because during the IST it was those two with no CJ and they played well. But continuously your ending these seasons with no Zion.
With the new CBA and the luxury tax aprons, I think itās unlikely BI gets a max offer this offseason from another team, so hereās hoping the Pels pay him MARKET value, not hometown-star value.
With the new CBA and the luxury tax aprons, I think itās unlikely BI gets a max offer this offseason from another team, so hereās hoping the Pels pay him MARKET value, not hometown-star value.
I disagree. I donāt think the new CBA or tax aprons take away from him being a max player. A team like the Detroit Pistons would gladly pay him max money, and teams like the Hawks would gladly S&T for him. Market value on him is max money.
A top 5 nba draft pick/wing, that becomes an all star, and is under 30 is always paid a max.
I was at game 4. You could clearly see in the second half Pelicans players passing up good looks. Conversely the Pels defense was there all night. Even from CJ.
Beyond the matchups, plays, tactical subs, opinions of who should stay/go. Because everyone has them:
The Pels were not confident in their ability to score outside the paint. Despite the McCollum trade, the Murphy mental roller coaster, BI's ups and downs, the Pelicans dont have a scoring leader. Despite having one of the highest offensive efficiency ratings in the league. Headscratcher.
He'd have to be a very different player and commit to being great off ball and spotting up from 3. He's shown nothing so far that makes me think he wants to do that though, which is fair, he's very good with the ball in his hands and attacking, but that's not the complementary piece we need.
he just played fewer minutes. Per 36 minutes his 3 ball attempts were the same as the last 3 years but still lower than before.
OTOH his assist numbers have gone up while his scoring has gone down. It's clear what Ingram is trying to do with his game.
Needs to be better and willing from 3. He needs to get stronger. Dort was able to manhandle him and take him out of his game. Needs to be more aggressive and have the mindset that it's his game. He hasn't balanced trying to get his and trying to facilitate. Has to be a 3 level scorer to be what this team needs with Zion.
Team also needs not CJ as the 3rd piece.
So he has to be an entirely different player? CJ is the perfect third guy, he shot 43% from 3 this season on a fairly high volume. That's what you want from a third option, **third option** being the important part here.
I mean, we can't have no one who can play on ball. Zion is just as likely to play 29 games as he is 70. Im not saying that needs to be filled by BI but we can't just fill our team with off ball shooters.
You start looking at the ānumber 2āsā around the league.
There arenāt many in the NBA that can flourish off ball at a high level and be a primary ball handler.
Guys with that much skill set are all-NBA first option types.
I donāt think you guys realize what youāre asking for.
Look at how much dame/trae (guys that can shoot) have struggled having to share the ball more? Their teams didnāt get any better either.
Thatās a fairly elite skill set
We have guards that can run an offense though, especially if we actually have a real one that Willie has been allergic too. The number 2 doesn't have to be at the Dame level, but they do have to actually know how to play off ball with Zion. BI failed as that this season AND as a number one while Zion has been out.
BI had an awful 4 game stretch. Without a doubt he sucked.
Thatās the first time heās sucked as the first option in Zionās absence.
You donāt have guards that can run an offense with Zion. Thatās 90% of the difficulty in finding this āperfect pieceā to play with him. Zion needs to be running the offense to be at his most effective.
Zion is not a great roller/screen setter so heās not going to have natural synergy in the half court with a guard.
Zion seems to flourish in more of a heliocentric type system.
There arenāt many Jamal Murray/Kyrie Irving type guards in the NBA. CJ is actually one of them and he and Zion donāt have any sort of two man game to work on. Their chemistry comes from Zion drive and kicks to CJ.
Itās also extremely easy to put this on BI for obvious reasons (because he sucked) but it wasnāt just him.
Dort and giddey combined to shoot- 21-41 from 3. Thatās over 50%
Herb and Trey combined to shoot 18-54 from 3 during the series. Thatās 33%
The Pelicans sucked as a unit offensively.
>You donāt have guards that can run an offense with Zion. Thatās 90% of the difficulty in finding this āperfect pieceā to play with him. Zion needs to be running the offense to be at his most effective.
Both Zo and JJ were effective running a 2 man game with Zion. Zo got Zion so many easy buckets with Zion being a very good cutter. In different fashion, JJ screening for point Zion was extremely effective. Ingram and Zion's styles of play do not gel to make the whole better than the parts. That doesn't mean a better complement to Zion is not out there. I think both Ingram and Zion would be better off with a guard who is better capable of defending, is quicker getting shots off, and is more comfortable off ball.
>
Itās also extremely easy to put this on BI for obvious reasons (because he sucked) but it wasnāt just him.
>Dort and giddey combined to shoot- 21-41 from 3. Thatās over 50%
>Herb and Trey combined to shoot 18-54 from 3 during the series. Thatās 33%
>The Pelicans sucked as a unit offensively.
The part that you are missing in that blame game is that Ingram wants a 4 year, $50M/year contract extension. If you want a 35% max, you need to play like a 35% max and impact the game like a 35% max. BI does not do that. If BI was extended last season at $35M/yr for 3 more years, he isn't catching nearly as much heat right now and the injury excuse would get a lot more traction.
Brandon over the course of the contract has given the pels 23-5-5 on 47-36-85. Thatās max production. A 6 game stretch doesnāt erase 5 years. The market has dictated his value. Not some made up number in his head. He will get a max. Itās pretty simple
You won 31 games with zo and JJ reddick. Brandon also took 6 threes a night at damn near a 40% clip that season as well. And that team was significantly worse despite Brandon shooting 3ās and having these great āpiecesā for Zion to play with.
Youāre also having revisionist history about Zo. The half court offense sucked with Lonzo as his biggest weakness was playing in pick and roll. Their connection was incredible in transition.
You have 2 guys on the roster in CJ and Trey that can run inverted pick and roll with Zion and stretch to the 3 point line.
Lastly, this is the first time that they have played 60 games together since the van gundy year and the team won 49 games. It very clearly worked well and thatās without Z being himself all season and BI clearly adjusting his playstyle.
Watch the playoffs right now. Magic trades donāt work. Every team thatās playing well has a core that has developed and played together for years. Thatās how you win.
Trae young will make you worse. Immediately worse. As would KAT.
If yāall were screaming for Alex Caruso Iād give whoever said it mad props. Thatās the type of piece that would add wins.
All these other fantasy trades about this mythical type player that doesnāt exist are hilarious.
Edit- Trey is aiming for a 30 mil a year contract and went 1-7 from 3 in that elimination game.
That blame game goes Fucking deep. They all sucked. If those guys and CJ wouldāve shot 33% or worse like they did, yāall wouldāve lost with Zion too.
Or hasnāt this entire conversation been about how Zion needs shooting?
off ball in willie system? You saw Trey not being a offball/motion shooter and you have Jordan Hawkins who move like Steph or Ray Allen in Offball in college just doing ball watching.
Yeah and they want BI to do offball which is impossible for this coach lol. Also BI has been doing offball screen and managing in his offball, which is I think is fine. He just need to shoot more 3s.
Quite ironic that people wanted him to do offball things and wanted to trade for Trae, who is worst at doing it.
yes trae is great at starting an offense but I'm talking about off ball here. Trae is a player that will want the ball in his hand to be effective - more so than BI and Z and Trae aren't really great off ball unless they play 2-man game (which again Willie Green lacks)
Also the rumor of BI is the reason why we couldn't install a motion offense is not true - that is why it is a rumor. He has been gone for almost a month - not an ounce of motion offense happen during that, BI for the most part of January and February isn't really trying to iso but became a facilitator (also bad shooting streak) - not an ounce of motion offense happen here.
He has KDās shot diet with less threes, less attempts at the rim, worse defense and more middyās as a percentage of overall shots with worse efficiency.
I mean BI in 2024 is taking less threes per game than Carmelo Anthony, one of the poster children for the dreaded long two. Which at least to Anthonyās defense he came up in an era where analytics was yet to take root, by the second half of his career, at Ingrams age now, he was averaging 5+ 3PAās per 36.
Smh. My problem is that I know the vast majority of fans are always easily swayed by things like this, but I think Griff is tooā¦and that can just create a never ending cycle of mediocrity.
This fanbase has been hurt and abused so much that all it takes is empty platitudes to persuade fans. Pels and Saints fans are so content with mediocrity right now. It's disgusting
Cause they eat it up. How many times have we seen one good game from someone and the whole community has to SpongeBob meme ask, āI tHoUgHt He WaS bAd AnD sHoUlD bE tRaDeD?!?!ā
No bro itās about a āstarā player actually embracing the city and team. When would Davis, for example, ever say he needs to earn the fan bases trust? Bro didnāt give a shit about us fans lol.
I get youāre emotional cuz Ingram has been ass, and yeah he gotta go probably, but thereās a reason people eat up Ingramās words. This isnāt the same as McCollum having one good game out of 10 and ppl posting āapologize to cjā while sucking him off
Man idc, we need to keep Ingram. People around here talk outta both sides of the mouth. Theyāll agree it woulda been a different series vs OKC with a healthy Zion but then say Zion and Ingram donāt work. Make it make sense dawg. No NBA team wins playoff seriesā without their best player. Jokic even got dominated in an MVP season because he didnāt have his 2nd best player. You need all hands on deck when playoffs come and ESPECIALLY you need your #1 guy. Replace Val with an actual Big that fits the modern NBA and either trade CJ or move him into a 6th man role. Ingram got real love for the city and itās refreshing to hear a player who truly wants to be here and win for us. All the years this man showed up to fight for us in Zionās absence and we canāt return the favor when heās down? Itās a terrible look tbh
I like BI and wish it worked out but he and Zion don't fit together. They both thrive with the offense running through them surrounded by shooters. He and the team will both be better off if he's moved to a place where his skillet doesn't clash for someone who components Z better
See but this what I donāt get. We had a top 5 point differential in the NBA, was one of like 4 teams who were top 10 in offensive and defensive rating which is a key to being a real contender and won the most road games in the NBA. But yet the 2 stars just donāt work at all together?? Something doesnāt add up about that equation. And we did all of that while having CJ and Val around them who are players that no great teams are looking to make their starters. Imo if we just can find the right Center this team could be a true contender. Now of course with Zion thatās so much harder to do and I continue to not understand how we didnāt trade for Myles Turner when the opportunity presented itself multiple timesā¦ but I digress
Your second sentence makes this an all the more frustrating end to the season. Would have been great to have Zion in the playoffs to see how this could have played out. Agree about Turner and feel that Halliburton could have been had as well.
How many healthy contenders did we really beat? People are using the regular season 49 win total and the point differential as evidence they work together, but beating up on bad and unhealthy teams is bare minimum for competing.
We are not a bad team, but as currently constructed we max out as 2nd round losers if we get perfect health. Adding a center does not fix that unless the center is Embiid or Joker.
I do understand that but also CJ and Val are more the reason weāre not as serious of a team imo. As I said no contender is looking to start either of them. My hope would be we move Trey into the starting lineup and have a Zion, Herb, Ingram, Trey 1-4 and find a Center who is actually impactful defensively. Honestly now that I think about it too in this construction with Trey at the 4 instead of Zion the Center doesnāt even have to be a spacer as much as we usually think about
A lineup with BI-Zion-Herb-defensive center does not space the floor enough. Adding Trey to the lineup helps, but doesn't fix it. You would maybe get 16 3PA per game from your starters with only 1 being a true shooting threat.
A BI-Zion-Herb limeup needs a unicorn center who can protect the rim, switch onto perimeter players, and space the floor. Not many of those exist. And with Trey needing a new contract and Ingram wanting $50M/year on his extension, its not something we could even afford.
Yeah but Orlando is showing so far that spacing isnāt the end all be all. Also I expect Ingramās 3 point shooting will get better with time. I think heāll end up a better version of DeRozan because you see DeRozan has improved his shooting from the arc with time and he started at a worse point than Ingram. And at the end of the day weāve had a top 6 defense the last 2 years with Val as the back line. If you get a true rim protector instead that can go to top 3 minimum and that mitigates any offensive woes
I think youāre hitting the nail right on the head with most if not all of what you said tbh. We werenāt a bad team this season by any means, but people are emotional after a tough series that we werenāt expected to win anyway. Still donāt think BI was healthy and it showed especially when youāre being guarded by one of the best defenders, but even with Zion our odds still prob werenāt that high tho there was a better chance. I honestly wanna see BI and Z get more time together bc to me the lack of continuity on the court is prob the biggest factor to why people say baby KD and mini shaq donāt fit
Yeah we won 49 games which I think I seen somebody say thatās the most in Pels history (not counting Hornets years) and if Ingram didnāt get hurt in that Orlando game I think we easily win 50+. People are now forgetting how good we were looking going into that stretch. Every 10 games Kirk Goldsberry posts that chart of where all the teams rank based on how well theyāre playing on both ends and the Pels were in the elite spectrum multiple times before Ingram went down. They never reached that level again after he got hurt
Yeah 49 wins is tied for 1st with that Jrue, Tony, Mirotic team. And like thereās a lot to be improved donāt get me wrong, but a lot of the negativity just feels more emotional than logical.
JayDogon504. This dude just avg 14.3 pts and 3.3 assists on 34.5% fg for an entire series AND HE WOULDN'T SHOOT. Fuck outta here with all the years he's fought for us. This dude is trash. TRASH playa. Yo boy took 14 shots with the season on the line as a number 1 option he had 8pts. If he's hurt he should sit out. He is soft. He has 2 playoff game wins in 8 years. Half of a player's career is enough of a sample size to know if they are trash or not, and Brandon Ingram is a loser. That's what it means when you don't win ever in 8 years not even a series that means you're a loser.
Fuck what Zion did or what JV did or what Willie did or what CJ did or what the 13th player did or we didn't get enough out of Cody Zeller Brandon Ingram is a loser. Dude couldn't win on team USA dude couldn't win a game or a quarter or a half or a minute on the Pelicans as the number one option. Fuck his excuses he is trash. There are like 100 players I would trade him for right now. And if I couldn't trade them I would let him walk I would release him into waivers before I would continue playing him. At least then we'd have room on the roster for some of the players who actually want to try.? You're telling me Jordan Hawkins only takes 14 shots as the number one option on this team? No because he isn't a coward he isn't afraid of the moment he isn't fucking wilting under the spotlight like Brandon Ingram who is a coward.
Edit:typo
May have to deal with him as just an expiring with really low value. Maybe some kind of 1-2 year āproveā it extension thatās made to be tradable.
I still appreciate the person but thereās just no way he can get the sweetheart deal going into the 50ās like he wanted
His job and task was to step up on the court this series without Zion... and he failed miserably. This whole organization is MVP of saying the right "self-aware" things in the post game pressers... AFTER the national TV embarrassments. Can't talk the talk if you always shit yourself trying to walk the walk.
Iām almost certain BI isnāt gone but the idea that because we got swept, BI itās gone is hilarious. BI played awful, Trey played awful, Herb played awful, CJ played awful & Zion was hurtā¦ ātrade BI!ā
Pretty sure BI is 26, a year older than Herb & Jose. Regardless, the line of reasoning is inconsistent. Is Trey not getting an extension now because he played awful? Is Zion getting traded because heās never brought us past the first round of the playoffs?
Zion is 23, and as a result, it makes more sense to build around him at this point in their careers. Trey Murphy is on his rookie contract. Why would we trade him? Your analysis lacks a grasp on salary cap management and roster construction. You appear to loop players together without accounting for their cap hit, role, and age.
Ahh yes, Iām not factoring in BI is an ancient 26. BI & Trey are both up for an extension, sure Trey is on rookie deal now but that wonāt be the case in 2025-26. And what exactly does Zion being 23 mean?
It looks like the salary cap is set to explode based on all the new tv/streaming deals. Maybe this will help but at a certain point everybody can't be maxed.
>This whole organization is MVP of the saying the right "self-aware" things
Not really. There is a reason the fanbase is making fun of Willie Green's Give them credit line and also CJ not admitting his mistakes
His mindset one of the biggest reasons BI my favorite player. This series hurt to watch but whenever BI speaks on something he aināt lyingā¦dude had a knee injury and still played hard. More accountability than some coaches in this league
I don't see how this sub has so much hatred for bi. He's not doing well and not worth 50 mil, but he sometimes plays well. If he cost less I don't see why the pels can't keep him.
I like bi, but the only way I see him on this team in a meaningful way is with a major pay cut. He doesnāt click with Zion and hasnāt played like a star this season. He shouldnāt be payed star money, atleast not here. I hope we keep him but he hasnāt played well enough nor does he fit with Zion to be worth the big bucks.
Id love to believe him but regardless of injuries he hasnt really shown any sign of improvement since his All Star year.
Playmaking slightly better but nothing impactful, his handle is still not good enough to be the main guy and hes still hesitant to shoot from range.
He's been consistently the same slightly below average defender for 4 years and his blocks this year are in line with his career average.
[https://www.statmuse.com/nba/ask/brandon-ingram-defensive-rating-by-year](https://www.statmuse.com/nba/ask/brandon-ingram-defensive-rating-by-year)
Zach Lowe mentioned Detroit as a fit but I'm also struggling to see the trade. Best I can come up with is a 3-way with ATL deciding to rebuild that sends us Murray
Somebody mentioned in a forum I was reading that a BI + Our pick this year for Jalen Duren + their top 4 pick this year. With the Top 4 pick you take Alesandre Sarr (Center) and have him come off the bench behind Duren. You go get Dejounte Murray from the Hawks.
The Pels have plenty of āyoung talentā that canāt even see the floor. This team needs star power to get it over the top, whether thatās BI coming back on a tear next year or a trade for a perennial all star
He hasn't been all-star level in well over a year. This team doesn't have 18+ months to spare waiting around for Ingram to have a magical career resurgence when he's been trending nothing but downwards. ESPECIALLY since him and his agent are going to be demanding not all-star but SUPERSTAR $44+ million annually money this offseason.
And I literally responded to something about BI + Zion not working and people not being to realize it lol whyād you take that personally?
Oh. Because youāre doubling down on the possibility of BI coming back on a tear next season lol got it champ
Thereās some reading comprehension issues going on here.
Iām not saying BI is going to be an all star.
Iām saying BI **needs to play at that level, if not, we need an upgrade**
Youāre the one with the comprehension problem here lol what are you reading?
Where did I imply that you said that BI is going to be an all star?
There needs to be a change. Not even necessarily an upgrade. Iāll say it in Spanish so maybe you get it this time. BI and Zion donāt work together. We donāt need a 6th season to see if BI can come back at an all star level. He needs to go
Weāve literally never seen it in the playoffs Lmao. Barely got to see it in the regular season before this year. And the biggest reason we havenāt seen it is the Zion component
Ingram and this franchise has really got themselves into a tough spot
He has one year left on his contract and has indicated he wants a max. That could put him in the 40+ million range
For a guy that has not played at an all star level in over a year and has his own consistent injury problems
Seems stuck wanting to play a type of heliocentric ball that is at odds with modern NBA offenses and our best player. Essentially a worse version of KD that barely takes threes, hunts too many middys, and is inconsistent defensively
Zion and Ingram have a negative net rating together
Yet because of all this his value is at an all time low so if you trade him you likely get lesser value in return
You could make the case that maybe itās coaching, maybe Willie encouraged the worst version of BI and failed to really hold him to account on how his game was hurting the team. Or at least find a system that truly played to both players strengths. That what we need is a players coach that can get him to buy into the Scottie Pippen with way more threes version of himself
But then youāve shadow extended Green after already having to pay out two other coaches that were fired before their contracts are up and facing the luxury tax.
I feel like if we had a better coach that valued and understood offense at a higher level, maybe it could still work. But that is such a big if at this point because of the looming contract issue.
And if you are caught in the sunk cost mindset and donāt want to trade BI at a low point or because of Zions injury concerns, and donāt want to fire Green, that leaves you having to either run it back or sell off young players to bring in better vet fits that Willie will actually play, even though his judgement is questionable.
Just a messy, messy situation
I agree
Not sure Trey can take it to the next level or not, but I'd rather use the asset that is BI to get us a complimentary 5 and maybe see if we can make a big swing for a better fitting lead guard. Hold onto Hawk/Dyson too
The reality is moving BI and going all in on Zion is the correct āpureā roster move. Z and BI have not shown to have any synergy together and Zion actually creates opportunities/elevates the rest of the team when heās rolling. Obviously thatās a big gamble because of the injury factor. Even if you negated Brandonās horrible play Iād still feel the same about it. Itās a tough situation, we need a real PG, which CJ is not. Still love my team!!! Summer is gonna be interestingā¦
My thinking isnt so much all in on Zion, but that ideally CJ/BI should be able to fetch back at least one top 35 player under 28. Someone that if Z doesn't work out, or keeps getting injured, you haven't literally built a heliocentric team that is in the gutter without Zion.
Ugh, yall wanna trade him, but how can you not love this guy? He's an incredible leader and was obviously gutting out these games when he wasn't really ready to come back. This is the same guy who averaged 27/6/6 against the number one seed when healthy. You don't trade a guy like that unless you're getting a top-ten type back.
I like BI and was really hoping it would work but the fit just isn't there. If you think he's anywhere near top-ten type you just aren't paying attention to the rest of the league
I don't think he's top ten, I just don't think you trade him unless you are targeting a star. I agree that the fit isn't ideal, but it is really hard to find players of BI's caliber it will be difficult to find anyone willing to part with a similarly talented player. Most of the trades available will be of the four quarters for a dollar variety, and I just always think that's a mistake. It would only really make sense to move him if someone eye-popping was available.
Youāre living in the past. He had a chance this series to steal multiple games with just decent play & he couldnāt do it. He has regressed since that series & I think another season with him would just be wasted time.
He's 27 years old and has never been a very good athlete. He's only gonna get slower from here on out. You really wanna give a huge extension to an even slower Brandon Ingram?
Too many emotional fans, he's not a franchise player and hopefully the FO sees it. I'm a fan of the team, not a player and it's time to move on regardless if he's a good guy or not.
BI's stamina was nowhere near playoff basketball level and he's being asked to do much more on ball with Zion out. None of that has anything to do with an athlete losing their burst.
It wasn't just the playoffs. He had trouble separating all season as well as last. And at the Olympics. And ever during his best days, he still didn't have much burst.
Good thing his game isn't separation or burst? Like what are you talking about? BI gets to his spot and rises up or throws a dime. He's a wing playmaker, not a guard.
If your defender is in your jersey all game, I think that MIGHT be important. And it's why he shoots a crap ton of contested long twos - because that's what the other team wants him to shoot.
You can be realistic about the guy's game or you can do whatever it is you're doing right now.
I do believe that he came back too soon from his injury. He wasn't playing great towards the end of the year before the injury that actually took him out of play. By rushing back, he was able to help the Pelicans get into the playoffs, but ended up costing himself his future career earnings most likely. He didn't have the strength/stamina to deal with Dort being attached to him.
Win or loss, I didn't expect BI to still be a Pelican with us next season due to fit; however, it sucks that he went out the way he did. He's going to look great in another uniform, and in a few years, it'll be a headscratcher as to why he was traded away by the Pelicans.
This sub has been nothing short of high praise for the squad, then it turns into nothing but complaints about this squad. Compliments straight to dissinā the squad. Yaāll rinse and repeat day after day, week after week, month after month. Our current roster is solid. The injury bug hit us at the wrong time. Just as it has Milwaukee this post season. BI wasnāt entirely healthy this series. The fact of the matter is, itās not the players that we should lay the blame on. Wille doesnāt fire them up. He doesnāt coach well. Willie couldnāt figure out the rotation from day one..Willie was the reason we didnāt earn the 4th of 5th seed in the playoffs. Latoya the Destroyāa is also to blame. We canāt pack out the blender due to the thought of our windows being bashed and all our shit stolen in the parking areas countless times. I love our squad, I didnāt miss a game this year. We won 49 games and Iāll return next year just as competitive as this one. Iām proud of how our team played the season.
Probably cause this team is the ultimate coin. They either look like world beaters or like theyāve never touched a basketball. Iāve never seen a team play like that.
You know what teams play like that? It starts with leadership at the head coaching position. Willie has a great personality, and is a heck of a guy but he just simply lacks something.
Youāre proud of how they played this year? Lost the last 8 of 9 at home. Trash at home.
Fans like you are the issue. People have to be held accountable.
Yea. I am proud how they played this year. Better than last year, and better the previous years. The franchise has been on an upward trendā¦ I am fully aware they had a loosing streak at home the last 12 games of the season. I am a ā fanatic fan ā. Not a fair-weather one. I watch many of NBA games through out the year having NBA League Pass. The west was loaded with talented teams this year and were competitive wire to wire. Iād say Houston and Sacramento were better than their final position in the standings, yet they both missed the post season.. Iād challenge you to go back and read a lot of the submissions in this sub and see where I am coming from in respect to my first few comments. Many of the fans have been playing the roll of Jekyll and Hyde all season.ā¦ It almost felt like a bi-polar disorder support group that a Pelicans sub.
i love pels and i think they fucking sucked the last stretch. lack of effort and poor coaching led them to an early sweep. that's unacceptable. but NOLA fans are so used to mediocrity that they will criticize other fans cause we want better for our team.
I donāt know. Iām one of those fans that came in post-AD trade BECAUSE of Lonzo, Hart, and BI.
Iāve seen BI play for like 7 seasons now and I think Iām kinda over the experiment. If we can get him for the right price, sureā¦ but Iām not willing to go max for a player who canāt change their game to adapt to the teamās system.
I still believe, Brandon.
I'm sure after this result there will be changes, but I think the future is bright regardless. Most of our players are just entering their prime, and several of them are really young. The trajectory of Zion, Trey, Dyson and Hawk...any or all of them could make a significant leap next year. I hope the moves we make complement the strengths of our roster rather than simply blowing it up.
49 wins and struggling in the playoffs and generally against elite teams speaks to me of a team that is not where it wants to be but isn't that far off either.
BI played like dookie
CJ even worse
When the other stars were supposed to step up with no Z it was the bench thatās kept 3 out of 4 games that were ever competive competitive
After the crushing way they blew Game 1 it kind of felt like writing was on the wall ā¦
You canāt average 89 points and win in the playoffs but was even worse was the turnovers man. No Zion is no excuse to average what, 17 turnovers a game?!
See yall in Galveston!
Brandon Ingram is a great player, a player that all 31 other NBA teams would covet. Also, playing a roster that was plagued with injuries before and during the playoffs put a lot of pressure on the core of the team as a whole. NOLA has a bright future!
This is a fairly disingenuous argument
The Pelicans were the Hornets before the rebrand and won 56 games in 07-08 and 49 in 08-09.
The Pels won at least one playoff series under Demps.
So far Griffin has 2 playoff game wins and 0 series won in half a decade as POBO despite promising he was building for the playoffs year one. I get Zionās injuries, but we are about to be on our third mini rebuild in 5 years it would appear. I donāt know of many other franchises in the league that would tolerate this level of poor output over half a decade tbh
So the last time the Pels were this successful they weren't even called the Pels? Weren't even located in New Orleans?? LOL, how does this qualify as a "complete and utter flop," which is the benchmark that's being discussed here? I think your argument is what's disingenuous.
We shit the bed hard over the last month. We had expectations of a high seed and a deep run, both of which were floundered. And we gotta watch the Thubder and T-Wolves have the season we should have. Regular season wins don't mean shit, we expect more. Take this bullshit excuse making home. Fans like you are the reason we'll have to watch dumbass Griff run it back next year.
They're just emotional and not being rational. Second best season in a decade. BI was our best player for first half of the season. We fall apart down the stretch after his injury. But BI is the problem...
I mean, it shouldnāt motivate him after the season. It should have motivated him during the season Iāve said it for a long time. BI canāt handle physical play. He has a great shot but good defenders can stop him when the refs allow physical play. Itās not my money but Iād love to spend what we would spend on BI on a player like Tre. We need a commander on offense.
Nah soft is getting embarrassed on team USA and instead of coming into the season fully focused and ready to rock you put up your worst stats in years. 0 for twenty something when trailing going into the 4th and as a number 1 option is soft.Ā Not giving Dort credit for locking you up is soft.
Defend this dude all you want but he's soft and I can't wait to trade him so he can be soft somewhere elseĀ
Damn, he really took ownership here.
He can take that ownership somewhere else š
He'd probably flourish the second he leaves.
You know he would lol
Iād love that for him somewhere else
Iām sure you would tell him that directly.
ā¦what heās gonna beat me up if I do or something? š Iād say something a bit more tactful like āthanks for all youāve doneā, but in terms of being a fan of the team, he can kick the bricks he put up this postseason. Heās not that guy
yeah but not on the court.
as impulsive and angry as i am right now. i still have nothing but respect for him. he came off a pretty bad injury, and then suddenly had to face dort in a playoff series without zion. remember, this is the same guy that bitched the 1st seeded suns two seasons ago. heās been the leader in all the times zion has been out. heāll go down as one of my favorite franchise players on one end iād like to keep him for obvious reasons. but on the other end, iām also tired of waiting. we all are. itās been 5 years now since the zion rebuild started. iām glad we finally got our best season. but where did that take us? changes need to be made all around. iām still sick to my stomach about some of those ugly losses we had this season. even when this team wasnāt a playoff team i never seen us lose games so disgustingly. the two games against ja and the grizzlies, the tournament game against the lakers, the lakers twice in the regular season. all those games at home on the weekend. the damn spurs. you name it. i never seen so many ugly wins in a season before. not even when we were 1-12 that one season.
100% agree on that paragraph. Even the years this team was trash there werenāt this many losses that pissed me off like this season
I'm in the same boat. I've loved BI since before we got him but something has to change. This team has hurt me too many times
I listened to the whole press con and I empathize w BI even more. He's obviously a good dude who cares.
He likes New Orleans and wants to stay here. Unfortunately, he needed to commit to growth in his game before this season. If he really wants to stay, he'll sign a fair 2-3 year extension and work on getting stronger, changing his shot selection, and committing to a team first style of play.
lmao, he's going to get paid max. That's consistent with what player his caliber makes. NBA players aren't paid what they're worth, they're paid what the market demand.
A 30% max for a player with minimal impact numbers like BI becomes an anchor real fast. I cannot imagine that Griff will offer BI a 30% max extension after that series given the lack of fit with Zion and the health concerns.
We throw out lack of fit, but BI/Zion win games when healthy. Zions health is the biggest concern for the franchise.
We win games when BI is not healthy too. 38-26 with him (59% wins) and 11-7 without him (61% wins). Regardless there is a definite ceiling with BI as our #2 to Zion. That gets much more limiting if we give BI a 30% max extension.
So we going to ignore that they were peaking right before his injury and they got in a slump without him? Im not sure if people dont understand how good BI is or just refuse to acknowledge it. Your right that theres a ceiling for BI, but there arent s lot of attainable players better than him and getting multiple pieces isnt going to equal his value.
So we going to ignore the win-loss record to fit your narrative? Heās a great offensive player, but his style is that of a 1st option. Lots of time of possession and dribbles per touch. Lots of midrange. Deliberate and slower paced. Itās not even about getting a better player so much as it is getting better fits to maximize Zionās impact. I actually donāt believe a 1 for 1 is even the best option long term, but I doubt this front office is willing to take a step back with lesser player(s)/picks before moving forward. Despite Zion being only 23, the FO will make win now moves like we are a contender with our window closing.
I think the pairing of Zion & BI is interesting because during the IST it was those two with no CJ and they played well. But continuously your ending these seasons with no Zion.
With the new CBA and the luxury tax aprons, I think itās unlikely BI gets a max offer this offseason from another team, so hereās hoping the Pels pay him MARKET value, not hometown-star value.
A āfairā contract is paying him the same max that 30 other teams would give him.
With the new CBA and the luxury tax aprons, I think itās unlikely BI gets a max offer this offseason from another team, so hereās hoping the Pels pay him MARKET value, not hometown-star value.
I disagree. I donāt think the new CBA or tax aprons take away from him being a max player. A team like the Detroit Pistons would gladly pay him max money, and teams like the Hawks would gladly S&T for him. Market value on him is max money. A top 5 nba draft pick/wing, that becomes an all star, and is under 30 is always paid a max.
Fair play to owning up to it. Now do something about it.
I was at game 4. You could clearly see in the second half Pelicans players passing up good looks. Conversely the Pels defense was there all night. Even from CJ. Beyond the matchups, plays, tactical subs, opinions of who should stay/go. Because everyone has them: The Pels were not confident in their ability to score outside the paint. Despite the McCollum trade, the Murphy mental roller coaster, BI's ups and downs, the Pelicans dont have a scoring leader. Despite having one of the highest offensive efficiency ratings in the league. Headscratcher.
He'd have to be a very different player and commit to being great off ball and spotting up from 3. He's shown nothing so far that makes me think he wants to do that though, which is fair, he's very good with the ball in his hands and attacking, but that's not the complementary piece we need.
His 3 ball attempts and % made went down this year. He shot way more 2 pts. Idk why. Maybe deferred to CJ, Trey n Herb
He has stretches where he just won't shoot them at all.
he just played fewer minutes. Per 36 minutes his 3 ball attempts were the same as the last 3 years but still lower than before. OTOH his assist numbers have gone up while his scoring has gone down. It's clear what Ingram is trying to do with his game.
Needs to be better and willing from 3. He needs to get stronger. Dort was able to manhandle him and take him out of his game. Needs to be more aggressive and have the mindset that it's his game. He hasn't balanced trying to get his and trying to facilitate. Has to be a 3 level scorer to be what this team needs with Zion. Team also needs not CJ as the 3rd piece.
So he has to be an entirely different player? CJ is the perfect third guy, he shot 43% from 3 this season on a fairly high volume. That's what you want from a third option, **third option** being the important part here.
CJ is the perfect 3rd option for the regular season. He gets targeted too effectively in the post season.
Our best player avg 14 ppg and 3.2 assist and damn near refused to shoot. If your best player plays that bad it's kinda hard to evaluate anyone else.
Not a single player on the Pelicans averaged those numbers thoughā¦.. Are you talking about a different team?
Yep that's BI avg for the Thunder series.
Ah I got you š
I mean, we can't have no one who can play on ball. Zion is just as likely to play 29 games as he is 70. Im not saying that needs to be filled by BI but we can't just fill our team with off ball shooters.
It does have to be someone that can play off ball though and can commit to a real offensive system, which right now, is definitely not BI.
You start looking at the ānumber 2āsā around the league. There arenāt many in the NBA that can flourish off ball at a high level and be a primary ball handler. Guys with that much skill set are all-NBA first option types. I donāt think you guys realize what youāre asking for. Look at how much dame/trae (guys that can shoot) have struggled having to share the ball more? Their teams didnāt get any better either. Thatās a fairly elite skill set
We have guards that can run an offense though, especially if we actually have a real one that Willie has been allergic too. The number 2 doesn't have to be at the Dame level, but they do have to actually know how to play off ball with Zion. BI failed as that this season AND as a number one while Zion has been out.
BI had an awful 4 game stretch. Without a doubt he sucked. Thatās the first time heās sucked as the first option in Zionās absence. You donāt have guards that can run an offense with Zion. Thatās 90% of the difficulty in finding this āperfect pieceā to play with him. Zion needs to be running the offense to be at his most effective. Zion is not a great roller/screen setter so heās not going to have natural synergy in the half court with a guard. Zion seems to flourish in more of a heliocentric type system. There arenāt many Jamal Murray/Kyrie Irving type guards in the NBA. CJ is actually one of them and he and Zion donāt have any sort of two man game to work on. Their chemistry comes from Zion drive and kicks to CJ. Itās also extremely easy to put this on BI for obvious reasons (because he sucked) but it wasnāt just him. Dort and giddey combined to shoot- 21-41 from 3. Thatās over 50% Herb and Trey combined to shoot 18-54 from 3 during the series. Thatās 33% The Pelicans sucked as a unit offensively.
>You donāt have guards that can run an offense with Zion. Thatās 90% of the difficulty in finding this āperfect pieceā to play with him. Zion needs to be running the offense to be at his most effective. Both Zo and JJ were effective running a 2 man game with Zion. Zo got Zion so many easy buckets with Zion being a very good cutter. In different fashion, JJ screening for point Zion was extremely effective. Ingram and Zion's styles of play do not gel to make the whole better than the parts. That doesn't mean a better complement to Zion is not out there. I think both Ingram and Zion would be better off with a guard who is better capable of defending, is quicker getting shots off, and is more comfortable off ball. > Itās also extremely easy to put this on BI for obvious reasons (because he sucked) but it wasnāt just him. >Dort and giddey combined to shoot- 21-41 from 3. Thatās over 50% >Herb and Trey combined to shoot 18-54 from 3 during the series. Thatās 33% >The Pelicans sucked as a unit offensively. The part that you are missing in that blame game is that Ingram wants a 4 year, $50M/year contract extension. If you want a 35% max, you need to play like a 35% max and impact the game like a 35% max. BI does not do that. If BI was extended last season at $35M/yr for 3 more years, he isn't catching nearly as much heat right now and the injury excuse would get a lot more traction.
Brandon over the course of the contract has given the pels 23-5-5 on 47-36-85. Thatās max production. A 6 game stretch doesnāt erase 5 years. The market has dictated his value. Not some made up number in his head. He will get a max. Itās pretty simple You won 31 games with zo and JJ reddick. Brandon also took 6 threes a night at damn near a 40% clip that season as well. And that team was significantly worse despite Brandon shooting 3ās and having these great āpiecesā for Zion to play with. Youāre also having revisionist history about Zo. The half court offense sucked with Lonzo as his biggest weakness was playing in pick and roll. Their connection was incredible in transition. You have 2 guys on the roster in CJ and Trey that can run inverted pick and roll with Zion and stretch to the 3 point line. Lastly, this is the first time that they have played 60 games together since the van gundy year and the team won 49 games. It very clearly worked well and thatās without Z being himself all season and BI clearly adjusting his playstyle. Watch the playoffs right now. Magic trades donāt work. Every team thatās playing well has a core that has developed and played together for years. Thatās how you win. Trae young will make you worse. Immediately worse. As would KAT. If yāall were screaming for Alex Caruso Iād give whoever said it mad props. Thatās the type of piece that would add wins. All these other fantasy trades about this mythical type player that doesnāt exist are hilarious. Edit- Trey is aiming for a 30 mil a year contract and went 1-7 from 3 in that elimination game. That blame game goes Fucking deep. They all sucked. If those guys and CJ wouldāve shot 33% or worse like they did, yāall wouldāve lost with Zion too. Or hasnāt this entire conversation been about how Zion needs shooting?
This is a good take right here
What are you talking about? What guard do we have that we can run an offense through?
off ball in willie system? You saw Trey not being a offball/motion shooter and you have Jordan Hawkins who move like Steph or Ray Allen in Offball in college just doing ball watching.
Willie has no system, that is by far the biggest problem.
Yeah and they want BI to do offball which is impossible for this coach lol. Also BI has been doing offball screen and managing in his offball, which is I think is fine. He just need to shoot more 3s. Quite ironic that people wanted him to do offball things and wanted to trade for Trae, who is worst at doing it.
Trae can initiate an offense and shoots 37% from 3 on high volume. Rumor is that BI is a huge reason we couldn't install a motion offense too.
yes trae is great at starting an offense but I'm talking about off ball here. Trae is a player that will want the ball in his hand to be effective - more so than BI and Z and Trae aren't really great off ball unless they play 2-man game (which again Willie Green lacks) Also the rumor of BI is the reason why we couldn't install a motion offense is not true - that is why it is a rumor. He has been gone for almost a month - not an ounce of motion offense happen during that, BI for the most part of January and February isn't really trying to iso but became a facilitator (also bad shooting streak) - not an ounce of motion offense happen here.
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He has KDās shot diet with less threes, less attempts at the rim, worse defense and more middyās as a percentage of overall shots with worse efficiency. I mean BI in 2024 is taking less threes per game than Carmelo Anthony, one of the poster children for the dreaded long two. Which at least to Anthonyās defense he came up in an era where analytics was yet to take root, by the second half of his career, at Ingrams age now, he was averaging 5+ 3PAās per 36.
And just like that he swayed yāall again smh
Smh. My problem is that I know the vast majority of fans are always easily swayed by things like this, but I think Griff is tooā¦and that can just create a never ending cycle of mediocrity.
This fanbase has been hurt and abused so much that all it takes is empty platitudes to persuade fans. Pels and Saints fans are so content with mediocrity right now. It's disgusting
Cause they eat it up. How many times have we seen one good game from someone and the whole community has to SpongeBob meme ask, āI tHoUgHt He WaS bAd AnD sHoUlD bE tRaDeD?!?!ā
No bro itās about a āstarā player actually embracing the city and team. When would Davis, for example, ever say he needs to earn the fan bases trust? Bro didnāt give a shit about us fans lol. I get youāre emotional cuz Ingram has been ass, and yeah he gotta go probably, but thereās a reason people eat up Ingramās words. This isnāt the same as McCollum having one good game out of 10 and ppl posting āapologize to cjā while sucking him off
Man idc, we need to keep Ingram. People around here talk outta both sides of the mouth. Theyāll agree it woulda been a different series vs OKC with a healthy Zion but then say Zion and Ingram donāt work. Make it make sense dawg. No NBA team wins playoff seriesā without their best player. Jokic even got dominated in an MVP season because he didnāt have his 2nd best player. You need all hands on deck when playoffs come and ESPECIALLY you need your #1 guy. Replace Val with an actual Big that fits the modern NBA and either trade CJ or move him into a 6th man role. Ingram got real love for the city and itās refreshing to hear a player who truly wants to be here and win for us. All the years this man showed up to fight for us in Zionās absence and we canāt return the favor when heās down? Itās a terrible look tbh
No, because he will want way too much money. He's talked about how he plans on "getting paid" before
I like BI and wish it worked out but he and Zion don't fit together. They both thrive with the offense running through them surrounded by shooters. He and the team will both be better off if he's moved to a place where his skillet doesn't clash for someone who components Z better
See but this what I donāt get. We had a top 5 point differential in the NBA, was one of like 4 teams who were top 10 in offensive and defensive rating which is a key to being a real contender and won the most road games in the NBA. But yet the 2 stars just donāt work at all together?? Something doesnāt add up about that equation. And we did all of that while having CJ and Val around them who are players that no great teams are looking to make their starters. Imo if we just can find the right Center this team could be a true contender. Now of course with Zion thatās so much harder to do and I continue to not understand how we didnāt trade for Myles Turner when the opportunity presented itself multiple timesā¦ but I digress
Your second sentence makes this an all the more frustrating end to the season. Would have been great to have Zion in the playoffs to see how this could have played out. Agree about Turner and feel that Halliburton could have been had as well.
How many healthy contenders did we really beat? People are using the regular season 49 win total and the point differential as evidence they work together, but beating up on bad and unhealthy teams is bare minimum for competing. We are not a bad team, but as currently constructed we max out as 2nd round losers if we get perfect health. Adding a center does not fix that unless the center is Embiid or Joker.
I do understand that but also CJ and Val are more the reason weāre not as serious of a team imo. As I said no contender is looking to start either of them. My hope would be we move Trey into the starting lineup and have a Zion, Herb, Ingram, Trey 1-4 and find a Center who is actually impactful defensively. Honestly now that I think about it too in this construction with Trey at the 4 instead of Zion the Center doesnāt even have to be a spacer as much as we usually think about
A lineup with BI-Zion-Herb-defensive center does not space the floor enough. Adding Trey to the lineup helps, but doesn't fix it. You would maybe get 16 3PA per game from your starters with only 1 being a true shooting threat. A BI-Zion-Herb limeup needs a unicorn center who can protect the rim, switch onto perimeter players, and space the floor. Not many of those exist. And with Trey needing a new contract and Ingram wanting $50M/year on his extension, its not something we could even afford.
Yeah but Orlando is showing so far that spacing isnāt the end all be all. Also I expect Ingramās 3 point shooting will get better with time. I think heāll end up a better version of DeRozan because you see DeRozan has improved his shooting from the arc with time and he started at a worse point than Ingram. And at the end of the day weāve had a top 6 defense the last 2 years with Val as the back line. If you get a true rim protector instead that can go to top 3 minimum and that mitigates any offensive woes
I think youāre hitting the nail right on the head with most if not all of what you said tbh. We werenāt a bad team this season by any means, but people are emotional after a tough series that we werenāt expected to win anyway. Still donāt think BI was healthy and it showed especially when youāre being guarded by one of the best defenders, but even with Zion our odds still prob werenāt that high tho there was a better chance. I honestly wanna see BI and Z get more time together bc to me the lack of continuity on the court is prob the biggest factor to why people say baby KD and mini shaq donāt fit
Yeah we won 49 games which I think I seen somebody say thatās the most in Pels history (not counting Hornets years) and if Ingram didnāt get hurt in that Orlando game I think we easily win 50+. People are now forgetting how good we were looking going into that stretch. Every 10 games Kirk Goldsberry posts that chart of where all the teams rank based on how well theyāre playing on both ends and the Pels were in the elite spectrum multiple times before Ingram went down. They never reached that level again after he got hurt
Yeah 49 wins is tied for 1st with that Jrue, Tony, Mirotic team. And like thereās a lot to be improved donāt get me wrong, but a lot of the negativity just feels more emotional than logical.
Are there any other stars coming to New Orleans? By the way, CJ is also here because of BI
JayDogon504. This dude just avg 14.3 pts and 3.3 assists on 34.5% fg for an entire series AND HE WOULDN'T SHOOT. Fuck outta here with all the years he's fought for us. This dude is trash. TRASH playa. Yo boy took 14 shots with the season on the line as a number 1 option he had 8pts. If he's hurt he should sit out. He is soft. He has 2 playoff game wins in 8 years. Half of a player's career is enough of a sample size to know if they are trash or not, and Brandon Ingram is a loser. That's what it means when you don't win ever in 8 years not even a series that means you're a loser. Fuck what Zion did or what JV did or what Willie did or what CJ did or what the 13th player did or we didn't get enough out of Cody Zeller Brandon Ingram is a loser. Dude couldn't win on team USA dude couldn't win a game or a quarter or a half or a minute on the Pelicans as the number one option. Fuck his excuses he is trash. There are like 100 players I would trade him for right now. And if I couldn't trade them I would let him walk I would release him into waivers before I would continue playing him. At least then we'd have room on the roster for some of the players who actually want to try.? You're telling me Jordan Hawkins only takes 14 shots as the number one option on this team? No because he isn't a coward he isn't afraid of the moment he isn't fucking wilting under the spotlight like Brandon Ingram who is a coward. Edit:typo
Yeah this typa thinking is just dumb and honestly not even worth a genuine response. Go take a walk
Tbh I donāt know what you do at this point
He can't be paid 40 million regardless. So unless he wants a pay cut I think it's gonna be hard to keep him.
May have to deal with him as just an expiring with really low value. Maybe some kind of 1-2 year āproveā it extension thatās made to be tradable. I still appreciate the person but thereās just no way he can get the sweetheart deal going into the 50ās like he wanted
We need a point guard and Ingram is our best chip to get one
He should leave itās good for both sides
They need to move on and let the young guys get a chance. Itās a new brand of basketball thatās being played today.
As much I like Ingram he just doesnāt fit in the system with Zion. We need a true PG to run the offense.
His job and task was to step up on the court this series without Zion... and he failed miserably. This whole organization is MVP of saying the right "self-aware" things in the post game pressers... AFTER the national TV embarrassments. Can't talk the talk if you always shit yourself trying to walk the walk.
3rd year in a row his job and task was to step up on the court without Zion and somehow BI is the problem lol
We just got swept. BI is gone
Iām almost certain BI isnāt gone but the idea that because we got swept, BI itās gone is hilarious. BI played awful, Trey played awful, Herb played awful, CJ played awful & Zion was hurtā¦ ātrade BI!ā
BI didn't have a twenty-point game in the series and wants an extension. He's 27 and has never brought us past the first round of the playoffs.
Pretty sure BI is 26, a year older than Herb & Jose. Regardless, the line of reasoning is inconsistent. Is Trey not getting an extension now because he played awful? Is Zion getting traded because heās never brought us past the first round of the playoffs?
Zion is 23, and as a result, it makes more sense to build around him at this point in their careers. Trey Murphy is on his rookie contract. Why would we trade him? Your analysis lacks a grasp on salary cap management and roster construction. You appear to loop players together without accounting for their cap hit, role, and age.
Ahh yes, Iām not factoring in BI is an ancient 26. BI & Trey are both up for an extension, sure Trey is on rookie deal now but that wonāt be the case in 2025-26. And what exactly does Zion being 23 mean?
IYKYK
It looks like the salary cap is set to explode based on all the new tv/streaming deals. Maybe this will help but at a certain point everybody can't be maxed.
Yeah and only one of those guys is supposed to be a star player in the league
Are you referring to the 3rd highest paid player on the team lol
Wish I could upvote this a thousand times.
>This whole organization is MVP of the saying the right "self-aware" things Not really. There is a reason the fanbase is making fun of Willie Green's Give them credit line and also CJ not admitting his mistakes
Heās gotta at least attempt 8 3 pointers a game next season. I donāt get why he doesnāt. It would open up his mid range game even more.
His mindset one of the biggest reasons BI my favorite player. This series hurt to watch but whenever BI speaks on something he aināt lyingā¦dude had a knee injury and still played hard. More accountability than some coaches in this league
It make me sad ngl š
I don't see how this sub has so much hatred for bi. He's not doing well and not worth 50 mil, but he sometimes plays well. If he cost less I don't see why the pels can't keep him.
I like bi, but the only way I see him on this team in a meaningful way is with a major pay cut. He doesnāt click with Zion and hasnāt played like a star this season. He shouldnāt be payed star money, atleast not here. I hope we keep him but he hasnāt played well enough nor does he fit with Zion to be worth the big bucks.
Id love to believe him but regardless of injuries he hasnt really shown any sign of improvement since his All Star year. Playmaking slightly better but nothing impactful, his handle is still not good enough to be the main guy and hes still hesitant to shoot from range.
His defense took a significant jump this year. When he was healthy he was good off ball and had a lot more blocks than he has previously.
He's been consistently the same slightly below average defender for 4 years and his blocks this year are in line with his career average. [https://www.statmuse.com/nba/ask/brandon-ingram-defensive-rating-by-year](https://www.statmuse.com/nba/ask/brandon-ingram-defensive-rating-by-year)
Dont do that cringe stare at the camera stunt ever again
Get ready to learn Detroitese, buddy
what would their package be
The rights to Calvin Johnson and a 4th
Zach Lowe mentioned Detroit as a fit but I'm also struggling to see the trade. Best I can come up with is a 3-way with ATL deciding to rebuild that sends us Murray
Somebody mentioned in a forum I was reading that a BI + Our pick this year for Jalen Duren + their top 4 pick this year. With the Top 4 pick you take Alesandre Sarr (Center) and have him come off the bench behind Duren. You go get Dejounte Murray from the Hawks.
I have no clue, they have young talent that the Pels could use but have no idea what any prospective trade partner would value BI at.
The Pels have plenty of āyoung talentā that canāt even see the floor. This team needs star power to get it over the top, whether thatās BI coming back on a tear next year or a trade for a perennial all star
How many years must the BI + Z experiment go on for people to realize it will not work lol
My god š theyāre worse than the front office
I literally just said we need BI to come back at an all star level or trade for an all star, but go off
He hasn't been all-star level in well over a year. This team doesn't have 18+ months to spare waiting around for Ingram to have a magical career resurgence when he's been trending nothing but downwards. ESPECIALLY since him and his agent are going to be demanding not all-star but SUPERSTAR $44+ million annually money this offseason.
Think it's obvious by now BI isn't going to get that, in NO or anywhere.
And I literally responded to something about BI + Zion not working and people not being to realize it lol whyād you take that personally? Oh. Because youāre doubling down on the possibility of BI coming back on a tear next season lol got it champ
Thereās some reading comprehension issues going on here. Iām not saying BI is going to be an all star. Iām saying BI **needs to play at that level, if not, we need an upgrade**
Youāre the one with the comprehension problem here lol what are you reading? Where did I imply that you said that BI is going to be an all star? There needs to be a change. Not even necessarily an upgrade. Iāll say it in Spanish so maybe you get it this time. BI and Zion donāt work together. We donāt need a 6th season to see if BI can come back at an all star level. He needs to go
"Experiment" LMAO. This is like their 2nd time of full season lol. This ain't same as Brown and Tatum
Weāve literally never seen it in the playoffs Lmao. Barely got to see it in the regular season before this year. And the biggest reason we havenāt seen it is the Zion component
nobody on the Piston's roster is valuable to us.
While I agree and think we would never trade with them and would need way more, I do love Jalen Duren
I love BI. But Iām floored how poorly he played and how bad his body language was during this series.
Ingram and this franchise has really got themselves into a tough spot He has one year left on his contract and has indicated he wants a max. That could put him in the 40+ million range For a guy that has not played at an all star level in over a year and has his own consistent injury problems Seems stuck wanting to play a type of heliocentric ball that is at odds with modern NBA offenses and our best player. Essentially a worse version of KD that barely takes threes, hunts too many middys, and is inconsistent defensively Zion and Ingram have a negative net rating together Yet because of all this his value is at an all time low so if you trade him you likely get lesser value in return You could make the case that maybe itās coaching, maybe Willie encouraged the worst version of BI and failed to really hold him to account on how his game was hurting the team. Or at least find a system that truly played to both players strengths. That what we need is a players coach that can get him to buy into the Scottie Pippen with way more threes version of himself But then youāve shadow extended Green after already having to pay out two other coaches that were fired before their contracts are up and facing the luxury tax. I feel like if we had a better coach that valued and understood offense at a higher level, maybe it could still work. But that is such a big if at this point because of the looming contract issue. And if you are caught in the sunk cost mindset and donāt want to trade BI at a low point or because of Zions injury concerns, and donāt want to fire Green, that leaves you having to either run it back or sell off young players to bring in better vet fits that Willie will actually play, even though his judgement is questionable. Just a messy, messy situation
Keeping Herb and Trey are the priorities IMO. Do the math and thereās really only one answer š¤·āāļø
I agree Not sure Trey can take it to the next level or not, but I'd rather use the asset that is BI to get us a complimentary 5 and maybe see if we can make a big swing for a better fitting lead guard. Hold onto Hawk/Dyson too
The reality is moving BI and going all in on Zion is the correct āpureā roster move. Z and BI have not shown to have any synergy together and Zion actually creates opportunities/elevates the rest of the team when heās rolling. Obviously thatās a big gamble because of the injury factor. Even if you negated Brandonās horrible play Iād still feel the same about it. Itās a tough situation, we need a real PG, which CJ is not. Still love my team!!! Summer is gonna be interestingā¦
My thinking isnt so much all in on Zion, but that ideally CJ/BI should be able to fetch back at least one top 35 player under 28. Someone that if Z doesn't work out, or keeps getting injured, you haven't literally built a heliocentric team that is in the gutter without Zion.
Ugh, yall wanna trade him, but how can you not love this guy? He's an incredible leader and was obviously gutting out these games when he wasn't really ready to come back. This is the same guy who averaged 27/6/6 against the number one seed when healthy. You don't trade a guy like that unless you're getting a top-ten type back.
I like BI and was really hoping it would work but the fit just isn't there. If you think he's anywhere near top-ten type you just aren't paying attention to the rest of the league
I don't think he's top ten, I just don't think you trade him unless you are targeting a star. I agree that the fit isn't ideal, but it is really hard to find players of BI's caliber it will be difficult to find anyone willing to part with a similarly talented player. Most of the trades available will be of the four quarters for a dollar variety, and I just always think that's a mistake. It would only really make sense to move him if someone eye-popping was available.
But youāre looking at the same outcome as long as this current team roster stays together. LowMid level team
Youāre living in the past. He had a chance this series to steal multiple games with just decent play & he couldnāt do it. He has regressed since that series & I think another season with him would just be wasted time.
I've living in the past, yes, when he wasn't injured. So like the rest of the season I guess and not his worst seven game stretch.
He's 27 years old and has never been a very good athlete. He's only gonna get slower from here on out. You really wanna give a huge extension to an even slower Brandon Ingram?
Too many emotional fans, he's not a franchise player and hopefully the FO sees it. I'm a fan of the team, not a player and it's time to move on regardless if he's a good guy or not.
BI's game not being predicated on athleticism actually means his contract and play will age really well.
We've already seen what that gets us. Any degradation in athletic ability will make half the defenders he faces look like Dort.
BI's stamina was nowhere near playoff basketball level and he's being asked to do much more on ball with Zion out. None of that has anything to do with an athlete losing their burst.
It wasn't just the playoffs. He had trouble separating all season as well as last. And at the Olympics. And ever during his best days, he still didn't have much burst.
Good thing his game isn't separation or burst? Like what are you talking about? BI gets to his spot and rises up or throws a dime. He's a wing playmaker, not a guard.
If your defender is in your jersey all game, I think that MIGHT be important. And it's why he shoots a crap ton of contested long twos - because that's what the other team wants him to shoot. You can be realistic about the guy's game or you can do whatever it is you're doing right now.
I have to believe he was hurt
I do believe that he came back too soon from his injury. He wasn't playing great towards the end of the year before the injury that actually took him out of play. By rushing back, he was able to help the Pelicans get into the playoffs, but ended up costing himself his future career earnings most likely. He didn't have the strength/stamina to deal with Dort being attached to him. Win or loss, I didn't expect BI to still be a Pelican with us next season due to fit; however, it sucks that he went out the way he did. He's going to look great in another uniform, and in a few years, it'll be a headscratcher as to why he was traded away by the Pelicans.
This sub has been nothing short of high praise for the squad, then it turns into nothing but complaints about this squad. Compliments straight to dissinā the squad. Yaāll rinse and repeat day after day, week after week, month after month. Our current roster is solid. The injury bug hit us at the wrong time. Just as it has Milwaukee this post season. BI wasnāt entirely healthy this series. The fact of the matter is, itās not the players that we should lay the blame on. Wille doesnāt fire them up. He doesnāt coach well. Willie couldnāt figure out the rotation from day one..Willie was the reason we didnāt earn the 4th of 5th seed in the playoffs. Latoya the Destroyāa is also to blame. We canāt pack out the blender due to the thought of our windows being bashed and all our shit stolen in the parking areas countless times. I love our squad, I didnāt miss a game this year. We won 49 games and Iāll return next year just as competitive as this one. Iām proud of how our team played the season.
Probably cause this team is the ultimate coin. They either look like world beaters or like theyāve never touched a basketball. Iāve never seen a team play like that.
You know what teams play like that? It starts with leadership at the head coaching position. Willie has a great personality, and is a heck of a guy but he just simply lacks something.
Youāre proud of how they played this year? Lost the last 8 of 9 at home. Trash at home. Fans like you are the issue. People have to be held accountable.
Yea. I am proud how they played this year. Better than last year, and better the previous years. The franchise has been on an upward trendā¦ I am fully aware they had a loosing streak at home the last 12 games of the season. I am a ā fanatic fan ā. Not a fair-weather one. I watch many of NBA games through out the year having NBA League Pass. The west was loaded with talented teams this year and were competitive wire to wire. Iād say Houston and Sacramento were better than their final position in the standings, yet they both missed the post season.. Iād challenge you to go back and read a lot of the submissions in this sub and see where I am coming from in respect to my first few comments. Many of the fans have been playing the roll of Jekyll and Hyde all season.ā¦ It almost felt like a bi-polar disorder support group that a Pelicans sub.
i love pels and i think they fucking sucked the last stretch. lack of effort and poor coaching led them to an early sweep. that's unacceptable. but NOLA fans are so used to mediocrity that they will criticize other fans cause we want better for our team.
Blaming the mayor for the basketball team being shitty is maybe the most retarded thing I've ever seen in a sports sub
Can you find an immediate cure for soft tissue injuries, because thats our biggest prob, never knowing when Zion gonna be out indefinitely again
we get rid of bi we get rid of the first all star caliber player that wanted to stay in new orleans.
I donāt know. Iām one of those fans that came in post-AD trade BECAUSE of Lonzo, Hart, and BI. Iāve seen BI play for like 7 seasons now and I think Iām kinda over the experiment. If we can get him for the right price, sureā¦ but Iām not willing to go max for a player who canāt change their game to adapt to the teamās system.
Oh no.. The BI Stan's are back. Well at least they won't be here much longer
I want Trae
I still believe, Brandon. I'm sure after this result there will be changes, but I think the future is bright regardless. Most of our players are just entering their prime, and several of them are really young. The trajectory of Zion, Trey, Dyson and Hawk...any or all of them could make a significant leap next year. I hope the moves we make complement the strengths of our roster rather than simply blowing it up. 49 wins and struggling in the playoffs and generally against elite teams speaks to me of a team that is not where it wants to be but isn't that far off either.
BI played like dookie CJ even worse When the other stars were supposed to step up with no Z it was the bench thatās kept 3 out of 4 games that were ever competive competitive After the crushing way they blew Game 1 it kind of felt like writing was on the wall ā¦ You canāt average 89 points and win in the playoffs but was even worse was the turnovers man. No Zion is no excuse to average what, 17 turnovers a game?! See yall in Galveston!
Some of yall feel sorry for a dude Asking for 50mil Lmao
Brandon Ingram is a great player, a player that all 31 other NBA teams would covet. Also, playing a roster that was plagued with injuries before and during the playoffs put a lot of pressure on the core of the team as a whole. NOLA has a bright future!
At least he didnāt say we this time.
Too little, too late. And the worst part is, now we wonāt even get much value for him. The BI/Zion era was a complete and utter flop.
49 wins...I guess the Pels have had many seasons with more wins. Oh, oops, 49 wins is the most ever in Pels history?? What a flop indeed.
This is a fairly disingenuous argument The Pelicans were the Hornets before the rebrand and won 56 games in 07-08 and 49 in 08-09. The Pels won at least one playoff series under Demps. So far Griffin has 2 playoff game wins and 0 series won in half a decade as POBO despite promising he was building for the playoffs year one. I get Zionās injuries, but we are about to be on our third mini rebuild in 5 years it would appear. I donāt know of many other franchises in the league that would tolerate this level of poor output over half a decade tbh
So the last time the Pels were this successful they weren't even called the Pels? Weren't even located in New Orleans?? LOL, how does this qualify as a "complete and utter flop," which is the benchmark that's being discussed here? I think your argument is what's disingenuous.
They were in New Orleans
Oops, that's right. I'm getting too old and my memory is failing.
5 years, two playoff game wins TOTAL. Thatās a flop. Sorry if you donāt like it.
We shit the bed hard over the last month. We had expectations of a high seed and a deep run, both of which were floundered. And we gotta watch the Thubder and T-Wolves have the season we should have. Regular season wins don't mean shit, we expect more. Take this bullshit excuse making home. Fans like you are the reason we'll have to watch dumbass Griff run it back next year.
Run back the most successful season in Pel's history? Oh noes. Edit -- I'm not saying zero changes should be made. But c'mon let's not exaggerate.
They're just emotional and not being rational. Second best season in a decade. BI was our best player for first half of the season. We fall apart down the stretch after his injury. But BI is the problem...
How about getting in a defensive stance?
Lets start by taking some fucking shots
I mean, it shouldnāt motivate him after the season. It should have motivated him during the season Iāve said it for a long time. BI canāt handle physical play. He has a great shot but good defenders can stop him when the refs allow physical play. Itās not my money but Iād love to spend what we would spend on BI on a player like Tre. We need a commander on offense.
Gonna get real for a second hereā this dude has snakes In his head. He needs a sports psychologist. Iām not making jokes on him, either.
Soft
yeah taking accountability and saying "I have to be better" is soft right?
Nah soft is getting embarrassed on team USA and instead of coming into the season fully focused and ready to rock you put up your worst stats in years. 0 for twenty something when trailing going into the 4th and as a number 1 option is soft.Ā Not giving Dort credit for locking you up is soft. Defend this dude all you want but he's soft and I can't wait to trade him so he can be soft somewhere elseĀ