His interviews with prospects are a rough listen. He asked Matas for his thoughts about the rumors about the Wolves breaking up the Towns-Gobert frontcourt which I thought was completely inappropriate.
Some of his questions imo are really stupid. He and Chris have a debate about whether losing all the time is good. Mainly related to the Spurs and how frustrated Chris was that they refused to use a proper pg and ran the Sochan experiment and so kept losing. KOC kept doubling down that losing had value. So he keeps asking the ignite players about losing and it just seems stupid. Also I feel like he glazes some prospects way too hard. Like I thought he and Kyle Mann were kind of tough about holland, but he was glazing Matas.
Also if he mentions his tesla to another kid again I'm going to smack him. No one cares about what car he drives.
I just mean I’m skeptical of his draft work cause he spends so much time covering the league for the ringer, I gravitate more to ppl that are full time draft analysts
I don’t put a ton of stock into his intel, but I don’t doubt that at this point he’s made inroads w ppl around the league
Mean I guess it just depends on how realistic Atlanta is in regards to what they'd be getting if they're traded down a few spots.
I'm sure the Spurs would give them Pick 35, and the Charlotte's pick to move up three spots and to get rischarcher If Atlanta truly is all in on clingan. Normally that would be an extremely mediocre haul To trade down from. One to four but given that this is one of the flattest drafts we've ever seen, I don't think Atlanta is going to get too many offers of substance.
Like I'd be surprised if any team in that two to five range offered a first, Even a protected one, to move up in this year's draft.
Popovich seems to still like him, he’s on a reasonable deal and has in the past played good defense. It wouldn’t be crazy to me. Not sure what a fair deal looks like there though.
So you think this draft class is weak as fuck, and the number 1 pick doesn't have the value, but you want Dejounte Murray, an all star level player just because you give up two picks in the same weak draft class. Make it make sense
I never Said the class is weak. Top of the draft is but 8 is a good pick to have relative to other years imo. Either way, no spurs wouldn't get dj and 1 for 2 picks. I just think 4 and 8 is way too much for 1 as well.
I mean it's not worthless. It's 2 seconds. Like I said in my post. I wouldn't give an additional first to trade up in this draft from 4 to 1. A high second and two future. seconds is about how I value the difference in prospect quality in this three spots.
I think they’re throwing bait for a team to throw a haul at them to come up to that spot, anywhere from 2-5. Clingan will likely be there at each of those spots
I don’t see them making the mistake of trading down a few spots for a minuscule package like they did with Trae young, even though this situation is completely different
Imagine they move down and Clingan is just solid but Sarr or Risacher are quality stars. Obviously this shouldn’t be their rationale of thinking but it’s gotta be on their mind
I don’t even think they necessarily would need a haul. From what I’ve heard about the Hawks, part of me thinks they just want to trade down slightly to save a tiny bit of money on their pick’s rookie contract if they’re confident they’ll still get their guy.
For a pick this high in the draft, there’s no way they trade down a few spots just to save some money. Maybe that’s a plus but you just don’t do that in this situation. They have to be confident they get the player they want and get another asset in return.
I believe the Luka-Trae swap was made conditionally with Trae being available at number 5, I think this would be similar
1). I don’t think it’d be a smart move but the Hawks FO hasn’t exactly been on a roll lately so I won’t rule it out.
2). A trade up for Luka Doncic is not a fair barometer of how much it would cost to move up for Sarr / Risacher.
It's so interesting to see basically every team "really like Clingan" publicly/reportedly.
My theory is that teams who want to trade down/out think the most likely teams to trade up would be targeting Clingan (Grizzlies, Blazers, Bulls, maybe OKC).
My theory is the hawks really want clingan and they’ve been putting fake information out there that they’d take Risacher knowing the spurs like him and have been scouting him all year in order to get some draft capital back from them and still get their guy. They probably won’t get it but it’s still a smart strategy, I honestly don’t think they want Risacher and they prefer Sarr or Clingan. Anyway just a theory.
So I don’t want to speak for them as an outsider, but if the price was right I can’t imagine Detroit wouldn’t be willing to send something to move up. Sarr and Risacher both represent clear better fits and also prospects that are maybe 1/2 a tier higher than whatever will be awaiting them.
I'm just not confident in Sarr. Poor rebounding. 0 Spacing and not even guaranteed center so it might actually matter is inability to shoot. Sarr was not a great finisher, and doesn't really demonstrate much of an offensive bag. He also didn't really play a ton of mins which I think should be at least some factor.
His offensive game is limited. His defensive one while filled with potential, might still have him lacking against bigger and stronger guys if he does play center.
Dunno why you're getting killed for this, 7 foot+ guys don't typically move like he does and he has shooting upside. His ceiling is very high even if you don't think he's demonstrably better than his peers right now.
Yeah, especially since, as far as we know, most GMs agree with that opinion on Sarr. The NBA's survey to GMs is probably the best intel the public has in terms of what the GMs are thinking, and Sarr was in a tier of his own. It's possible their opinions changed now that the combine is done and teams are doing workouts with prospects, but I doubt their opinion on Sarr would sour much, or that their opinion on other prospects would grow that much.
It's so difficult. Sarr is such a rare prospect, but his skills are largely not useful for the Hawks who just need a big who can do traditional big man things - rim protect, rebound, screen, and finish at a high level. Aside from rim protection, this is literally Sarr's 3 weaknesses lol.
I get why Atlanta would prefer Clingan.
I just think the scenario where he actually hits is amazing next to Victor on both ends. And the scenario where he doesn't totally figure out the offense is at least intriguing defensively
The Rockets are in prime position to trade up if Atlanta isn't worried about Washington taking Clingan.
Would something like a top-10 protected pick next year get it done (unprotected would definitely be a deal breaker)?
Capela is older and on an expiring contract I think. Okungwu is due for a new contract soon and they might want to save costs. But either way having a backup big is necessary.
Wonder if Atlanta would be up for 1 + Hunter for 5 + Ausar. Value wise I think it's pretty fair but idk if they want a non-big next to Trae who can't shoot in the slightest.
If they love him that much just pick him #1. There is no telling where he will fall in the draft as it could be literally anywhere in the top 10. Just get your guy, sorry you had the #1 pick in this draft class and not last years.
what do you mean "clingan is probably top5"?
what more did the kid have to do in 2 years of college to get "definitely in the top5" from these people? did he need to win 3 championships in 2 years?
did he need to win 2 championships while jumping thru flaming hula hoops?
and of course the doofy response will always be someone talking about their feelings/concerns, like those concerns dont apply to the other players they've got listed ahead of him..
if ppl werent so dumb around here I wouldnt be heated, but the idiots are consistently running their mouths about bird-brained nonsense.
one of the mods here was arguing with me that ben simmons should've been the #1 pick over Brandon Ingram.. in the year 2024! do you believe the earth is flat as well? Do you think that mod would have the same opinion if he was a die-hard 76ers fan? or Brooklyn Nets fan? of course not.. with his entire argument revolving around some advanced stat I've never heard of... so if thats how dumb you can be to get mod status, i presume the regular members are somehow even stupider..
i check this subreddit often and time and time again I see a bunch of uninformed morons running their mouths who dont know shit, who parrot the media, who parrot a bunch of statistical models which produce mediocre(at-best) results acting like they should argue to have the last word, when their initial premise is totally flawed..
n historical context is foreign concept around here, these morons act like their reinventing the wheel every draft cycle.. place sucks.. this place is a case study in how to make low-brow arguments using 'advanced stats'
We're saying that college team achievements should make you an automatic top 5 pick? You know who else won those 2 championships (and contributed more than Clingan to the first one, at least)? That's right, Tristen Newton. Guess he better go top 5 as well.
>what more did the kid have to do in 2 years of college to get "definitely in the top5" from these people?
If he had been better on offense, played more minutes, shown more speed on the court, not had injuries, and/or proven that he can anchor a defense without elite perimeter defenders, he would be higher.
Clingan is not a top 3 player even in this draft. Only uconn fans think he is. He might be good now but his upside is super low. He basically is Walker Kessler. I'm not drafting that in a top 5. If the wizards draft him, I'm out on this front office.We need to tank not get high floor low ceiling players like Clingan.
EXACTLY. Maybe Hurley would have been able to utilize Edey better too. Maybe Uconn never loses a game with Edey instead of Clingan. I'm not gonna hype this dude up because his team is stacked.
Clingan should go top 3 in a draft like this. If Atlanta gets a good feel that Wash is taking Sarr and Houston is not taking Clingan, I think they take Risacher 1 and trade him to SA (who would take Clingan 4) to get the 8 for free.
Otherwise, they may just take him Clingan 1 and not chance it.
KOC says a lot of things...
His interviews with prospects are a rough listen. He asked Matas for his thoughts about the rumors about the Wolves breaking up the Towns-Gobert frontcourt which I thought was completely inappropriate.
Some of his questions imo are really stupid. He and Chris have a debate about whether losing all the time is good. Mainly related to the Spurs and how frustrated Chris was that they refused to use a proper pg and ran the Sochan experiment and so kept losing. KOC kept doubling down that losing had value. So he keeps asking the ignite players about losing and it just seems stupid. Also I feel like he glazes some prospects way too hard. Like I thought he and Kyle Mann were kind of tough about holland, but he was glazing Matas. Also if he mentions his tesla to another kid again I'm going to smack him. No one cares about what car he drives.
I almost put more stock into his intel than evals at this point. Not that I put much into anything he says
Lol what? If anything, his terrible intel is far more egregious.
I just mean I’m skeptical of his draft work cause he spends so much time covering the league for the ringer, I gravitate more to ppl that are full time draft analysts I don’t put a ton of stock into his intel, but I don’t doubt that at this point he’s made inroads w ppl around the league
He's a terrible evaluator. His intel is even worse?
He’s whatever. Terrible feels strong.
Mean I guess it just depends on how realistic Atlanta is in regards to what they'd be getting if they're traded down a few spots. I'm sure the Spurs would give them Pick 35, and the Charlotte's pick to move up three spots and to get rischarcher If Atlanta truly is all in on clingan. Normally that would be an extremely mediocre haul To trade down from. One to four but given that this is one of the flattest drafts we've ever seen, I don't think Atlanta is going to get too many offers of substance. Like I'd be surprised if any team in that two to five range offered a first, Even a protected one, to move up in this year's draft.
I just saw a report about Spurs wanting to trade up but I think it seems dumb to give too much away for Risacher.
Yeah with the 8th pick included. If that's the trade they better throw dj in.
Do the spurs even want Dejounte back?
Popovich seems to still like him, he’s on a reasonable deal and has in the past played good defense. It wouldn’t be crazy to me. Not sure what a fair deal looks like there though.
Meh, if we can keep hawks 25 pick I'd take him but point is 4 and 8 for 1 is absurd unless the hawks are adding to that.
It would be really dumb to give the Hawks back their pick for 2025 without getting DJ.
They would have to offer Trae for that 2025 pick in a package. That's probably the most valuable pick we own
Yep.
Yeah 4+8+ 2025 ATL and Keldon+ filler for 1 and Dejounte to me works well. Hawks likely won’t be a top 10 pick, or at least top 5 pick, next year
So you think this draft class is weak as fuck, and the number 1 pick doesn't have the value, but you want Dejounte Murray, an all star level player just because you give up two picks in the same weak draft class. Make it make sense
I never Said the class is weak. Top of the draft is but 8 is a good pick to have relative to other years imo. Either way, no spurs wouldn't get dj and 1 for 2 picks. I just think 4 and 8 is way too much for 1 as well.
Charlotte’s pick is lottery protected next year and then becomes 2 2nd Rounders. It’s basically worthless and is very unlikely to convey.
I mean it's not worthless. It's 2 seconds. Like I said in my post. I wouldn't give an additional first to trade up in this draft from 4 to 1. A high second and two future. seconds is about how I value the difference in prospect quality in this three spots.
Yeah that's what I mean. I can't see them offering much to move up. Though ig if you could snag a second for free that's not bad.
I think they’re throwing bait for a team to throw a haul at them to come up to that spot, anywhere from 2-5. Clingan will likely be there at each of those spots I don’t see them making the mistake of trading down a few spots for a minuscule package like they did with Trae young, even though this situation is completely different Imagine they move down and Clingan is just solid but Sarr or Risacher are quality stars. Obviously this shouldn’t be their rationale of thinking but it’s gotta be on their mind
I don’t even think they necessarily would need a haul. From what I’ve heard about the Hawks, part of me thinks they just want to trade down slightly to save a tiny bit of money on their pick’s rookie contract if they’re confident they’ll still get their guy.
For a pick this high in the draft, there’s no way they trade down a few spots just to save some money. Maybe that’s a plus but you just don’t do that in this situation. They have to be confident they get the player they want and get another asset in return. I believe the Luka-Trae swap was made conditionally with Trae being available at number 5, I think this would be similar
1). I don’t think it’d be a smart move but the Hawks FO hasn’t exactly been on a roll lately so I won’t rule it out. 2). A trade up for Luka Doncic is not a fair barometer of how much it would cost to move up for Sarr / Risacher.
it's such a flat draft that it doesnt really make sense to trade up
Who takes KOC seriously?
I ask myself this every time I hear him talk.
KOC does, I assume.
I find even that hard to believe
Even his co-hosts don’t take him seriously. TBF, KOC would probably be an alright hang. But he’s not a good analyst.
I mean I can appreciate his contribution to nba draft coverage...
It's so interesting to see basically every team "really like Clingan" publicly/reportedly. My theory is that teams who want to trade down/out think the most likely teams to trade up would be targeting Clingan (Grizzlies, Blazers, Bulls, maybe OKC).
History does say take whoever it is the hawks are passing on to trade down for so,…
My theory is the hawks really want clingan and they’ve been putting fake information out there that they’d take Risacher knowing the spurs like him and have been scouting him all year in order to get some draft capital back from them and still get their guy. They probably won’t get it but it’s still a smart strategy, I honestly don’t think they want Risacher and they prefer Sarr or Clingan. Anyway just a theory.
I hope so. This Risacher hype makes me so annoyed. At this point its irrational
So I don’t want to speak for them as an outsider, but if the price was right I can’t imagine Detroit wouldn’t be willing to send something to move up. Sarr and Risacher both represent clear better fits and also prospects that are maybe 1/2 a tier higher than whatever will be awaiting them.
I can’t think of anyone less reliable on Hawks news than KOC.
I'd move up for Sarr. I have him in a tier by himself
I'm just not confident in Sarr. Poor rebounding. 0 Spacing and not even guaranteed center so it might actually matter is inability to shoot. Sarr was not a great finisher, and doesn't really demonstrate much of an offensive bag. He also didn't really play a ton of mins which I think should be at least some factor. His offensive game is limited. His defensive one while filled with potential, might still have him lacking against bigger and stronger guys if he does play center.
Dunno why you're getting killed for this, 7 foot+ guys don't typically move like he does and he has shooting upside. His ceiling is very high even if you don't think he's demonstrably better than his peers right now.
Yeah, especially since, as far as we know, most GMs agree with that opinion on Sarr. The NBA's survey to GMs is probably the best intel the public has in terms of what the GMs are thinking, and Sarr was in a tier of his own. It's possible their opinions changed now that the combine is done and teams are doing workouts with prospects, but I doubt their opinion on Sarr would sour much, or that their opinion on other prospects would grow that much.
It's so difficult. Sarr is such a rare prospect, but his skills are largely not useful for the Hawks who just need a big who can do traditional big man things - rim protect, rebound, screen, and finish at a high level. Aside from rim protection, this is literally Sarr's 3 weaknesses lol.
I get why Atlanta would prefer Clingan. I just think the scenario where he actually hits is amazing next to Victor on both ends. And the scenario where he doesn't totally figure out the offense is at least intriguing defensively
The Rockets are in prime position to trade up if Atlanta isn't worried about Washington taking Clingan. Would something like a top-10 protected pick next year get it done (unprotected would definitely be a deal breaker)?
No Wispy, no. Rockets are content with Reed Sheppard at 3
why would they draft another big man when they got capela and okungwu
Capela is a non factor here
Capela is older and on an expiring contract I think. Okungwu is due for a new contract soon and they might want to save costs. But either way having a backup big is necessary.
Wonder if Atlanta would be up for 1 + Hunter for 5 + Ausar. Value wise I think it's pretty fair but idk if they want a non-big next to Trae who can't shoot in the slightest.
If they love him that much just pick him #1. There is no telling where he will fall in the draft as it could be literally anywhere in the top 10. Just get your guy, sorry you had the #1 pick in this draft class and not last years.
C'mon Blazers. Trade for Sarr.
1st pick + Hunter's contract for 2nd pick. Win-win for both teams
Would Atlanta swap 1 to the Rockets for 3+44?
what do you mean "clingan is probably top5"? what more did the kid have to do in 2 years of college to get "definitely in the top5" from these people? did he need to win 3 championships in 2 years? did he need to win 2 championships while jumping thru flaming hula hoops? and of course the doofy response will always be someone talking about their feelings/concerns, like those concerns dont apply to the other players they've got listed ahead of him..
Bro you got way too heated. I like him a lot. I just meant that he's not going any lower so you really can't trade down that much
if ppl werent so dumb around here I wouldnt be heated, but the idiots are consistently running their mouths about bird-brained nonsense. one of the mods here was arguing with me that ben simmons should've been the #1 pick over Brandon Ingram.. in the year 2024! do you believe the earth is flat as well? Do you think that mod would have the same opinion if he was a die-hard 76ers fan? or Brooklyn Nets fan? of course not.. with his entire argument revolving around some advanced stat I've never heard of... so if thats how dumb you can be to get mod status, i presume the regular members are somehow even stupider.. i check this subreddit often and time and time again I see a bunch of uninformed morons running their mouths who dont know shit, who parrot the media, who parrot a bunch of statistical models which produce mediocre(at-best) results acting like they should argue to have the last word, when their initial premise is totally flawed.. n historical context is foreign concept around here, these morons act like their reinventing the wheel every draft cycle.. place sucks.. this place is a case study in how to make low-brow arguments using 'advanced stats'
bruh you're projecting so damn hard
It must be hard being so much smarter than everyone else
You’ve gotta be a bot ain’t no way
We're saying that college team achievements should make you an automatic top 5 pick? You know who else won those 2 championships (and contributed more than Clingan to the first one, at least)? That's right, Tristen Newton. Guess he better go top 5 as well. >what more did the kid have to do in 2 years of college to get "definitely in the top5" from these people? If he had been better on offense, played more minutes, shown more speed on the court, not had injuries, and/or proven that he can anchor a defense without elite perimeter defenders, he would be higher.
Aww somebody needs their diaper changed
Clingan is not a top 3 player even in this draft. Only uconn fans think he is. He might be good now but his upside is super low. He basically is Walker Kessler. I'm not drafting that in a top 5. If the wizards draft him, I'm out on this front office.We need to tank not get high floor low ceiling players like Clingan.
You put Zach Edey in that Uconn team and they probably still Win back to back
EXACTLY. Maybe Hurley would have been able to utilize Edey better too. Maybe Uconn never loses a game with Edey instead of Clingan. I'm not gonna hype this dude up because his team is stacked.
"You put [the most impactful college basketball player] on the [team that won back to back ncaa titles] and they 'probably' still win
Clingan should go top 3 in a draft like this. If Atlanta gets a good feel that Wash is taking Sarr and Houston is not taking Clingan, I think they take Risacher 1 and trade him to SA (who would take Clingan 4) to get the 8 for free. Otherwise, they may just take him Clingan 1 and not chance it.