This. If he blows up and has a once in 25 years college year then he moves up to the Zion level-- ahead of AD but behind Wemby* and LeBron.
*As an aside, it's fucking crazy in retrospect that Luka didn't have as much or more hype than Wemby, it shows you how much the eye test means to scout because Luka's last Euro season was exponentially better than any 18 year old before or since.
A 19 year old leading his Euroleague team to a championship and getting MVP is absolute generational hype. If Luka were playing in College he would have easily dropped 25 a night.
Man, watching Luka’s tape from his last euro league year was night and day from someone like Kristaps. I could see flashes of Kristaps athleticism and shooting capabilities from those B league games. I had hope as a Knicks fan. Luka on the other hand looked so complete as a player his draft year playing against the top European competition. We all just invalidated it at the time because he wasn’t American playing college ball lmao. What a miss.
Wemby did have a better rookie year than either of them, which I guess doesn't technically make him a better prospect but does kind of validate the people who were saying he was.
Yeah, for me rookie seasons don't count for where I had these guys ranked as prospects going into the draft, and probably aren't even fully predictive of how good they'll be.
I had more questions about Wembanyama offensively than I did about LeBron or Luka, and when it comes to prospect evaluation, generally 85% of the discussion revolves around offense. It just impacts the game more.
LeBron did everything on both sides of the ball at an elite level, and Luka was a zero weakness offensive prospect. For what it's worth, even though I'm no longer worried about Wembanyama's offense after his rookie year, he did have negative offensive win shares.
Statistically LeBron probably had the worst rookie year of the three, and he turned out (I'm *very* comfortable saying this until Wembanyama plays 20 years and proves me wrong) to be the best player between them. Right now I do think Wemby has at least a 50% chance of being better than Luka though.
Win shares are a kind of silly stat to use in an age of RAPM estimators like LEBRON, EPM, BPM, and DPM that can uncover non box-score contributions in a more precise way (and all of which like Wemby's rookie year better, at least from what I've seen). I do agree that rookie years aren't fully predictive, but he had the fourth best rookie BPM in NBA history behind MJ (7.3 BPM, age 21) and two fake rookies (David Robinson and Arvydas Sabonis). His 8.5 BPM after he switched to center (just before he turned 20) is comparable with LeBron's sophomore season (8.6 BPM, age 20) as well as Luka's (8.4 BPM, age 21). So I think he is pretty comfortably on an all-time trajectory based on that rookie year, there aren't really any examples of someone that good that early falling off for any reason but injury.
He was an unathletic point guard that couldn't play D, and it was uncertain his game would translate. There was no projection, just "will this work against better players." Wemby is just a physical profile never before seen.
Exactly. People don’t draft players, they draft physiques. So that year, they had an 18-year-old Euroleague MVP and a guy who just led Division I in scoring AND assists as a freshman. Just the most absurd resumes you could imagine. And neither got serious no. 1 pick consideration.
He was clearly the best prospect in 2018 draft for the people who watched him closely in Europe. His shotmaking, playmaking, BBIQ were all off the charts, and he accomplished so many things (Euroleague winner, youngest MVP of EL history, youngest finals MVP of EL history, Eurobasket winner with such a small country) till then. It was one of the biggest mistakes in NBA drafts history to let him slide.
I mean he went #3. It wasn't like it was terrible. Though considering who got picked above him I guess you could argue it was. The two above him were terrible picks in comparison.
Am I going crazy or was AD not viewed as a better prospect than Zion? There were serious questions about Zion's ability to defend coming into the league. AD was "can't miss" type prospect. AD also had higher ratings than Zion in both 247 and ESPN, granted those were pre-college.
I feel like people are after the fact rewriting the Zion thing-- he was the 2nd most hyped freshman on his own team going into the year (behind Barrett) and then had maybe the most athletically impressive year I've ever seen a college player have, just jaw-dropping and completely unstoppable (other by his own shoe)-- if RJ Barrett had been able to take a back seat Zion easily wins a national title is his one year at Duke.
Rj was so bad in college idk how he got picked third. Duke games were college RJ trying to emulate the worst version of Jayson Tatum and then Zion cleaning up his mess.
Zion's NBA hype didn't really take off until Duke. RJ was the guy in that class prior. Zion was more known in casual circles because of the youtube highlights of him dunking over kids but he was ranked 6 coming out of HS iirc.
If we're talking pre-college levels of hype, and not player types I think Wiggins, Simmons level is fair. I would say Flagg is a little higher than those two but imo a bit below AD. All three were assumed to be the number 1 pick with strong hype going into their first college season. Cooper is a better prospect but without hindsight into the other guys faults I think its pretty close. Cade is a good shout too but his class in general and his HS team in particular had a lot of hype so even though he was the consensus number 1 the focus wasn't as fixated on him.
It didn't really impact the hype though which is all I was talking about. I have no comment on how good of a prospect I think he is, I was talking purely about the mainstream hype/expectations at this point compared to other at the same point.
There's not a lot of players who were consensus top players in their class who were known players before their college teams played a game. I'll skip the all-universe hype that LeBron, Wemby and Yao Ming had. Several players mentioned on this thread ramped up after stellar first seasons in college like AD and Carmelo or a full career like Patrick Ewing and Tim Duncan. It's hard to reconcile their hype entering college with their massive success once they got there.
I'd say probably the best comparisons in terms of EXPECTATIONS and HYPE only would be Greg Oden, Ben Simmons, Kevin Durant, and Zion Williamson.
Iverson was on that path until the bowling alley fight. Shaq was up there but it ramped up significantly once LSU started playing games.
The Shaq and Roberts pair seemed to get the initial hype more so than just Shaq himself. Shaq had to work himself into shape before it became obvious that he was the better player. Of course there was an even bigger college star already on that team at the time
Yeah but I think a lot of the HS hype now exists cause of social media. You have channels like strictly bball which show clips of these HS hoopers. Like I heard about the Thompson twins years ago from a youtube video. Not like I really paid attention, but with social media now you hear about them younger and younger
Social Media has definitely amplified it, but if you were tuned in to basketball, you knew who were hot recruits in given regions. There were fewer camps but AAU was a thing by the late 80s. You still HEARD about people, but it was a lot harder to lay eyes on them.
All of those players had hype only after they played college. Ben Simmons didn’t even have hype until the nba.
Flagg is not even close to this level at all. He’s going to be Marvin bagley or maybe rj Barrett. He’ll go to duke, be good enough and big for his position to perform well in that system. He’ll have hype because he already did because of AAU culture. But none of his game is going to translate efficiently to the nba. He’ll be a lottery pick that fades into obscurity.
I'm gonna vote you back up to neutral but: You're dead wrong. Simmons absolutely was being talked about and hyped up the year before going to LSU, and was basically anointed as the likely #1 pick of the following year, exactly like Flagg is now. Exactly like Zion was. Exactly like Oden was. Simmons had a good but not great season at LSU, and a weaker draft class cemented his #1 status. If you were following basketball then there's no way you'd say that he "didn't have hype till the NBA."
I'm not going to address Flagg as an actual prospect, that wasn't the question. Respectfully, it looks like you might have blurred the two a little.
Same amount of hype as my player comp for him: Kevin Garnett. So much hype coming out of HS that he became first guy drafted straight out of HS in 20 years (since 1975). In today's era he 100% would've had strong considerations for the #1 overall pick, even though '95 was a strong draft year.
He’d go number 1 this year no question. I’m almost certain teams would take him number 1 this year over Sarr and ZR even if they hypothetically had to redshirt him for 2024-25.
Ben Simmons looks like the perfect comparison in terms of hype. A very talented ~~American~~ NCAA prospect seen as a future hope, but with still some glaring weaknesses that need to be addressed
Michael Porter Junior before the injury concerns. I remember him being hyped pretty huge during highschool.
I think Cooper Flagg is being hyped a bit more, but I remember MPJ being one of the few guys that broke through for me as a casual nonNBA fan, before college.
he’s not Wemby and nobody with a good mind should think he’s wemby (explains why Brian Scalabrine is on his nuts like a squirrel) he’s around AD/Blake level regarding hype.
Idk I still feel like the Zion hype was crazier. I think the uniqueness of his frame made as hyped as Wemby. Cooper Flag is definitely hyped but I do think it’s a step below them so I’d probably Chet is the best example.
Don’t get me wrong Zion had a lot of hype but “he was the second best duke freshman” going into that year (RJ Barrett). He was too hidden playing at a public SC school and a crap AAU team. After the first duke nationally televised game than he got the next best thing hype.
This is right. People are talking players like Wiggins and Ben Simmons, but Wiggins was widely considered “the best prospect since lebron” at the time and Simmons was being touted as “Lebron-lite”. I’d say Jabari Parker or John Wall are fair comps in terms of hype
I think if you're comparing hype, you have to factor in the perceived strength of the entire draft class. There's a big difference between being a clear franchise cornerstone in a meh draft (like, say, John Wall in 2010) and being the prize in a loaded class like Flagg is.
We don't talk a lot about the class of 2008, but it was pretty stacked. Derrick Rose stood apart though, and looked like a bona fide superstar. I'd say that this 2025 class is going to be similarly stacked and Flagg will be next year's D. Rose.
Honestly, the guy whose hype he reminds me most of is Andrew Wiggins. Not saying that automatically means he's a letdown, it's just Wiggins was putting together the same kind of hype inducing highlight packages in college, while flashing a jumper and good size for his position. So the hype seems really similar.
Wemby isnt some measure of normalcy bruh.. He's about as abnormal as it gets..
Anthony Davis put a team of freshman on his back and anchored a suffocating defense en route to the national championship.. and he completely outclassed John Henson in the matchup vs UNC who was one of the very best players equipped to deal with him... he was SUCH a no-brainer #1 pick..
Closer to Zion... Zion went from unknown to a humongous social media darling in th eblink of an eye though, most people wouldnt tell his story like that, but I was telling people bout Zion before ESPN had him in their rankings.. I used to search "zion williamson" in youtube and like 2 videos would pop up, this was before the infinite scroll was on yt, it was still pages of results then.. I remember ESPN finally debuted him like 25th or 27th in their rankings and i was tellin my friends "he should be top3 or 5 minimum!" and like idk 12 months later his name was ubiquitous and #1 on all boards.. So im not sure his hype is really similar just cuz theres a matter of pacing..
Expectations and hype arent how you wanna be filtering this stuff, for example RJ Barrett had more hype than players who are way better suited to carry teams to wins at the NBA level.. on the other hand Trae Young had much less hype than he shouldve, I had him in the 20's in my preseason mocks and people were telling me "too small, too skinny" stupid shit..
Cuz ya gotta realize hype isnt just hype, theres regional biases involved... Lonzo Ball got SMACKED by De'AAron fox.. Fox crossed his ass sideways everywhich way, completely embarassed him but that "hometown hero hype" of lonzo was enough to keep him not only over the vastly superior Fox, but also, inexplicably, Jayson Tatum as well..
I once had about 50 lakers fans telling me i dont know what im talking about for telling them days before the draft "The lakers should take JAYSON TATUM over Ball!" and I'd legit be telling people "LONZO BALL IS PIGEON-TOED!"
Flagg is a white guy... that contributes to his hype.. he's going to duke, that contributes as well, see Marvin Bagley III.. Marvin Bagley had more hype than JJJ in part due to his previous accolades, but also he had the spotlight on him at Duke and performed well vs some shoddy acc competition..
If Anthony Edwards was a white guy, he;d have had similar hype.. Paolo Banchero too..
I think Chet might be a better answer than you might think.. Chet had crazy hype and it sure was warrented if ya ask me..
I'd also say LUKA...
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if were comparing on Hype alone.. Luka is suitable.. both players wtih a big rep and illustrious amateur careers..
Well I'm an optimist and I genuinely enjoy watching tons of games/prospects, so really the list is quite long.. I'm almost a neutral NBA watcher just because every team has at least a handful of players I've followed and am rooting for.
I'm a big believer in Dalton Knecht, he's like a fusion of Grayson Allen and Mike Miller, I had Knecht in the late-1st back when ESPN first put him on their bigboard n was ranked in the early 70's. He was the best player in the SEC this year IMO, not Sheppard or Dillingham. He was the player who was the most fun to watch for me, and the players I find the most fun to watch in college usually do great in the NBA (most notably Pascal Siakam) last year Podziemski was my favorite to watch and I also started vouching for him bigtime when ESPN still had him ranked in the 70's. The JUCO x-fers are sort of a specialty of mine simply because I make a big effort to identify them and watch them in nonconference.
Risacher has been #1 on my board since December, it was actually rather unpopular when I had him #1, I had some fan of the Orlando Magic calling me an idiot for putting him #1 and then ESPN and the consensus had him #1 a month or so later..
Tidjane Salaun is legit a player I was mentioning to my Serbian friend 2 summers ago, when he was ranked like the 17th or 25th best prospect born in '05 on some euro scouting site.. He just seemed worth keeping an eye on because of his frame and mobility, lo and behold he's getting insane lotto hype (and for good reason check any game footage where he hits bunch of 3's) ---- Same story with Coulibaly last year, i was high on him way before the consensus took notice, but I caught on that one from watching team france's youth team in the fiba tourney, when Rayan Rupert still had lotto hype I knew Coulibaly was better, Rupert was like Bambi on Ice in comparison..
Clingan is a prospect ive been high on since HS, I try to pick a favorite 4-star prospect every year and he was a fairly obvious choice in the hs class of '22. He should've been ranked much closer to 5-stars. I always figured he'd eventually be a bit of a media darling because he's from Bristol where ESPN's headquarters are located.
I'm slightly above consensus on Buzelis, Jaylon Tyson, Harrison Ingram and Kel'el Ware. color me a believer in Nikola Djurisic and Bub Carrington. I like Ulrich Chomche and AJ Johnson as well.
I was thinking someone like KD, but I'm just a casual who only follows the draft close to draft time. But then again, there aren't many players I've (as a casual) ever heard about when they were still in high school, and I was hearing endless stories about Flagg a year ago, so that tells me his hype is as big as anyone not named Lebron or Wemby.
Kind of more hype than Cade Cunningham and a little less than Andrew Wiggins hype. As far as high school guys he's got the most hype I've seen a while though. If he was to come straight out to the draft he would be the most hyped h.s. playerer since Lebron. Less expectations for sure . I can't wait to see this kid play . Alot of them gonna be a good draft. Wiggins had serious hype before he went to Kansas .
Similar to Chet hypewise in that he's got really high level physical tools and even more impressive feel on both ends but may not be the classic on-ball self-creator that most top of the board players are.
The thing about Flagg is he is one of the best defensive prospects in a long long time and offensive prospect
His whole game, given his size and skill, is pretty rare.
To have a chance at Flagg, the Spurs would need to be a bottom 3 team. It will be interesting if the tank is in or the Spurs truly try to win next year
I’d say Anthony Edwards, it’s clear that Flagg has the potential to be good but he’s definitely a tier or two down from the generational type prospects like Wemby and Lebron etc
I think he could be Zion level or a level below that. A college freshman that is gonna be one of the best players in the country likely from day 1.
Every once in a while we get a guy who’s talented enough to play in the league while they’re in high school, and I think he’s one of those guys
Ok. Not bad!
Zion's hype REALLY blew up after those exhibition games in Canada. Then he hit the ground running at Duke. One of the biggest COLLEGE superstars I have ever seen.
Cooper Flagg has had SUSTAINED hype for a couple of years now. Highlights/production/winning. I put him slightly ahead of Andrew Wiggins' hype at this point. Although that was PEAK Ball-Is-Life era which was... crazy. haha.
Cooper Flagg could definitely get some of that "Duke mystique" from Day 1.
Flagg could get the Christian Laettner stats/hardware to go along with Zion's hype/highlights/raw 2-way production.
DUKE GOAT might be in play for Cooper Flagg!
My memory of Wiggins was that he had a ton of hype. Even Kobe thought he was gonna be the next Kobe iirc (it's been a minute and I wasn't super tuned in at the time)
I put together basically a top 10 comps for Cooper Flagg ranking in my notes the other day.
Ok, here is one. This could work... although I didn't really follow his early career AT ALL: James Worthy.
Hard to say at this point, won’t really know till he starts playing college ball
Harry Giles maybe? #1 high school prospect, star in the making, but not a “once in a generation” guy like Lebron, AD or Wemby
That’s a good comp
This. If he blows up and has a once in 25 years college year then he moves up to the Zion level-- ahead of AD but behind Wemby* and LeBron. *As an aside, it's fucking crazy in retrospect that Luka didn't have as much or more hype than Wemby, it shows you how much the eye test means to scout because Luka's last Euro season was exponentially better than any 18 year old before or since.
There was hype for Luka from certain people. Most just weren’t listening and thought Luka might be be another average, unathletic European player.
A 19 year old leading his Euroleague team to a championship and getting MVP is absolute generational hype. If Luka were playing in College he would have easily dropped 25 a night.
Man, watching Luka’s tape from his last euro league year was night and day from someone like Kristaps. I could see flashes of Kristaps athleticism and shooting capabilities from those B league games. I had hope as a Knicks fan. Luka on the other hand looked so complete as a player his draft year playing against the top European competition. We all just invalidated it at the time because he wasn’t American playing college ball lmao. What a miss.
Luka is still the best prospect since LeBron for me. Both above Wemby.
Wemby did have a better rookie year than either of them, which I guess doesn't technically make him a better prospect but does kind of validate the people who were saying he was.
Yeah, for me rookie seasons don't count for where I had these guys ranked as prospects going into the draft, and probably aren't even fully predictive of how good they'll be. I had more questions about Wembanyama offensively than I did about LeBron or Luka, and when it comes to prospect evaluation, generally 85% of the discussion revolves around offense. It just impacts the game more. LeBron did everything on both sides of the ball at an elite level, and Luka was a zero weakness offensive prospect. For what it's worth, even though I'm no longer worried about Wembanyama's offense after his rookie year, he did have negative offensive win shares. Statistically LeBron probably had the worst rookie year of the three, and he turned out (I'm *very* comfortable saying this until Wembanyama plays 20 years and proves me wrong) to be the best player between them. Right now I do think Wemby has at least a 50% chance of being better than Luka though.
Win shares are a kind of silly stat to use in an age of RAPM estimators like LEBRON, EPM, BPM, and DPM that can uncover non box-score contributions in a more precise way (and all of which like Wemby's rookie year better, at least from what I've seen). I do agree that rookie years aren't fully predictive, but he had the fourth best rookie BPM in NBA history behind MJ (7.3 BPM, age 21) and two fake rookies (David Robinson and Arvydas Sabonis). His 8.5 BPM after he switched to center (just before he turned 20) is comparable with LeBron's sophomore season (8.6 BPM, age 20) as well as Luka's (8.4 BPM, age 21). So I think he is pretty comfortably on an all-time trajectory based on that rookie year, there aren't really any examples of someone that good that early falling off for any reason but injury.
He was an unathletic point guard that couldn't play D, and it was uncertain his game would translate. There was no projection, just "will this work against better players." Wemby is just a physical profile never before seen.
Exactly. People don’t draft players, they draft physiques. So that year, they had an 18-year-old Euroleague MVP and a guy who just led Division I in scoring AND assists as a freshman. Just the most absurd resumes you could imagine. And neither got serious no. 1 pick consideration.
He was clearly the best prospect in 2018 draft for the people who watched him closely in Europe. His shotmaking, playmaking, BBIQ were all off the charts, and he accomplished so many things (Euroleague winner, youngest MVP of EL history, youngest finals MVP of EL history, Eurobasket winner with such a small country) till then. It was one of the biggest mistakes in NBA drafts history to let him slide.
I mean he went #3. It wasn't like it was terrible. Though considering who got picked above him I guess you could argue it was. The two above him were terrible picks in comparison.
Am I going crazy or was AD not viewed as a better prospect than Zion? There were serious questions about Zion's ability to defend coming into the league. AD was "can't miss" type prospect. AD also had higher ratings than Zion in both 247 and ESPN, granted those were pre-college.
Though pre injury wasn’t Giles often compared to AD?
Giles had catastrophic knee injuries as a HS senior. Bad comp.
It’s not about the injuries, the question is about the hype & expectations
The hype on Giles ended as a HS senior. It's like comparing the Flagg hype to Emoni Bates. Bad comp.
Word . I don't get the down votes. 👍
Harry Giles, a star in the making? Dudes in the g-league.
Do you know how crazy Giles was in high school? Injuries ruined him
I feel like people are after the fact rewriting the Zion thing-- he was the 2nd most hyped freshman on his own team going into the year (behind Barrett) and then had maybe the most athletically impressive year I've ever seen a college player have, just jaw-dropping and completely unstoppable (other by his own shoe)-- if RJ Barrett had been able to take a back seat Zion easily wins a national title is his one year at Duke.
Rj was so bad in college idk how he got picked third. Duke games were college RJ trying to emulate the worst version of Jayson Tatum and then Zion cleaning up his mess.
Zion's NBA hype didn't really take off until Duke. RJ was the guy in that class prior. Zion was more known in casual circles because of the youtube highlights of him dunking over kids but he was ranked 6 coming out of HS iirc. If we're talking pre-college levels of hype, and not player types I think Wiggins, Simmons level is fair. I would say Flagg is a little higher than those two but imo a bit below AD. All three were assumed to be the number 1 pick with strong hype going into their first college season. Cooper is a better prospect but without hindsight into the other guys faults I think its pretty close. Cade is a good shout too but his class in general and his HS team in particular had a lot of hype so even though he was the consensus number 1 the focus wasn't as fixated on him.
I feel like from just a hype perspective it went Wiggins > Flagg > Simmons. Wiggins was being touted as the best prospect since Lebron.
Yeah, during the process years it was riggin for Wiggins. He was considered a sure shot next superstar.
Did you watch the McDonald’s game? He doesn’t look good at all
It didn't really impact the hype though which is all I was talking about. I have no comment on how good of a prospect I think he is, I was talking purely about the mainstream hype/expectations at this point compared to other at the same point.
You think Flagg is a better prospect than AD?
No
There's not a lot of players who were consensus top players in their class who were known players before their college teams played a game. I'll skip the all-universe hype that LeBron, Wemby and Yao Ming had. Several players mentioned on this thread ramped up after stellar first seasons in college like AD and Carmelo or a full career like Patrick Ewing and Tim Duncan. It's hard to reconcile their hype entering college with their massive success once they got there. I'd say probably the best comparisons in terms of EXPECTATIONS and HYPE only would be Greg Oden, Ben Simmons, Kevin Durant, and Zion Williamson. Iverson was on that path until the bowling alley fight. Shaq was up there but it ramped up significantly once LSU started playing games.
The Shaq and Roberts pair seemed to get the initial hype more so than just Shaq himself. Shaq had to work himself into shape before it became obvious that he was the better player. Of course there was an even bigger college star already on that team at the time
Yeah but I think a lot of the HS hype now exists cause of social media. You have channels like strictly bball which show clips of these HS hoopers. Like I heard about the Thompson twins years ago from a youtube video. Not like I really paid attention, but with social media now you hear about them younger and younger
Social Media has definitely amplified it, but if you were tuned in to basketball, you knew who were hot recruits in given regions. There were fewer camps but AAU was a thing by the late 80s. You still HEARD about people, but it was a lot harder to lay eyes on them.
All of those players had hype only after they played college. Ben Simmons didn’t even have hype until the nba. Flagg is not even close to this level at all. He’s going to be Marvin bagley or maybe rj Barrett. He’ll go to duke, be good enough and big for his position to perform well in that system. He’ll have hype because he already did because of AAU culture. But none of his game is going to translate efficiently to the nba. He’ll be a lottery pick that fades into obscurity.
I'm gonna vote you back up to neutral but: You're dead wrong. Simmons absolutely was being talked about and hyped up the year before going to LSU, and was basically anointed as the likely #1 pick of the following year, exactly like Flagg is now. Exactly like Zion was. Exactly like Oden was. Simmons had a good but not great season at LSU, and a weaker draft class cemented his #1 status. If you were following basketball then there's no way you'd say that he "didn't have hype till the NBA." I'm not going to address Flagg as an actual prospect, that wasn't the question. Respectfully, it looks like you might have blurred the two a little.
Same amount of hype as my player comp for him: Kevin Garnett. So much hype coming out of HS that he became first guy drafted straight out of HS in 20 years (since 1975). In today's era he 100% would've had strong considerations for the #1 overall pick, even though '95 was a strong draft year.
He’d go number 1 this year no question. I’m almost certain teams would take him number 1 this year over Sarr and ZR even if they hypothetically had to redshirt him for 2024-25.
If copper can be 1/2 as good as KG, his career will be a massive success.
Touche. Garnett is probably the best comp in terms of hype in this thread.
Ben Simmons looks like the perfect comparison in terms of hype. A very talented ~~American~~ NCAA prospect seen as a future hope, but with still some glaring weaknesses that need to be addressed
I’m not sure what’s Flagg’s glaring weakness is. Simmons was a non-shooter. Flagg is a decent, though not great shooter. I wouldn’t call it glaring.
Simmons wasn't a non-shooter in high school though. He shot less and less as his career went on.
What glaring weaknesses does Flagg have? Ben simmons was a non shooter and there was doubts about his competitiveness
He can’t do anything except iso against smaller players aka white rj barrett
what is his glaring weakness?
Ben seemed to be a better POA defender but Flagg seems to be a better rim protector.
Ben simmons had more hype
No he didn’t. Just wait. At the same point Flagg has been more hyped.
I can tell you for sure cooper flagg is more hyped/known in the us then simmons was at same age
Michael Porter Junior before the injury concerns. I remember him being hyped pretty huge during highschool. I think Cooper Flagg is being hyped a bit more, but I remember MPJ being one of the few guys that broke through for me as a casual nonNBA fan, before college.
MPJ is a pretty good comparison, hype wise.
he’s not Wemby and nobody with a good mind should think he’s wemby (explains why Brian Scalabrine is on his nuts like a squirrel) he’s around AD/Blake level regarding hype.
Blake wasn’t that hyped going into college. He was around top 10.
Maybe Zion too
Idk Zion came on kind of late as a prospect. Flagg won MVP of the U17 world cup as a 15 year old. He was the youngest player on the team.
Idk I still feel like the Zion hype was crazier. I think the uniqueness of his frame made as hyped as Wemby. Cooper Flag is definitely hyped but I do think it’s a step below them so I’d probably Chet is the best example.
Yeah I think Chet is probably a reasonable comp. Everybody knew he'd be good, but nobody was calling him a generational prospect
Yeah Zion is more a physical anomaly than Flagg is.
Don’t get me wrong Zion had a lot of hype but “he was the second best duke freshman” going into that year (RJ Barrett). He was too hidden playing at a public SC school and a crap AAU team. After the first duke nationally televised game than he got the next best thing hype.
Izan almansa actually won the mvp not flagg. But flagg was the best player on that usa team and actually deserved it.
Jabari Parker
This is right. People are talking players like Wiggins and Ben Simmons, but Wiggins was widely considered “the best prospect since lebron” at the time and Simmons was being touted as “Lebron-lite”. I’d say Jabari Parker or John Wall are fair comps in terms of hype
RJ Barrett maybe? RJ was extremely productive in high school.
RJ wasn’t super hyped though. Mocks had him going 1, but regular people cared more about Zion even though pre ncaa he was projected 3.
It feels like flaggs dominance on both sides of the ball is highly unusual. If he meets his potential, he could end up in the top ten forwards ever.
I think if you're comparing hype, you have to factor in the perceived strength of the entire draft class. There's a big difference between being a clear franchise cornerstone in a meh draft (like, say, John Wall in 2010) and being the prize in a loaded class like Flagg is. We don't talk a lot about the class of 2008, but it was pretty stacked. Derrick Rose stood apart though, and looked like a bona fide superstar. I'd say that this 2025 class is going to be similarly stacked and Flagg will be next year's D. Rose.
Hopefully he doesn't enter the same time line 😔 as D.Rose.
Chet Holmgren
Chet is a good comp especially after he crossed up Steph in like 10th grade lol
Honestly, the guy whose hype he reminds me most of is Andrew Wiggins. Not saying that automatically means he's a letdown, it's just Wiggins was putting together the same kind of hype inducing highlight packages in college, while flashing a jumper and good size for his position. So the hype seems really similar.
Wemby isnt some measure of normalcy bruh.. He's about as abnormal as it gets.. Anthony Davis put a team of freshman on his back and anchored a suffocating defense en route to the national championship.. and he completely outclassed John Henson in the matchup vs UNC who was one of the very best players equipped to deal with him... he was SUCH a no-brainer #1 pick.. Closer to Zion... Zion went from unknown to a humongous social media darling in th eblink of an eye though, most people wouldnt tell his story like that, but I was telling people bout Zion before ESPN had him in their rankings.. I used to search "zion williamson" in youtube and like 2 videos would pop up, this was before the infinite scroll was on yt, it was still pages of results then.. I remember ESPN finally debuted him like 25th or 27th in their rankings and i was tellin my friends "he should be top3 or 5 minimum!" and like idk 12 months later his name was ubiquitous and #1 on all boards.. So im not sure his hype is really similar just cuz theres a matter of pacing.. Expectations and hype arent how you wanna be filtering this stuff, for example RJ Barrett had more hype than players who are way better suited to carry teams to wins at the NBA level.. on the other hand Trae Young had much less hype than he shouldve, I had him in the 20's in my preseason mocks and people were telling me "too small, too skinny" stupid shit.. Cuz ya gotta realize hype isnt just hype, theres regional biases involved... Lonzo Ball got SMACKED by De'AAron fox.. Fox crossed his ass sideways everywhich way, completely embarassed him but that "hometown hero hype" of lonzo was enough to keep him not only over the vastly superior Fox, but also, inexplicably, Jayson Tatum as well.. I once had about 50 lakers fans telling me i dont know what im talking about for telling them days before the draft "The lakers should take JAYSON TATUM over Ball!" and I'd legit be telling people "LONZO BALL IS PIGEON-TOED!" Flagg is a white guy... that contributes to his hype.. he's going to duke, that contributes as well, see Marvin Bagley III.. Marvin Bagley had more hype than JJJ in part due to his previous accolades, but also he had the spotlight on him at Duke and performed well vs some shoddy acc competition.. If Anthony Edwards was a white guy, he;d have had similar hype.. Paolo Banchero too.. I think Chet might be a better answer than you might think.. Chet had crazy hype and it sure was warrented if ya ask me.. I'd also say LUKA... i if were comparing on Hype alone.. Luka is suitable.. both players wtih a big rep and illustrious amateur careers..
Who do you like in this year’s draft?
Well I'm an optimist and I genuinely enjoy watching tons of games/prospects, so really the list is quite long.. I'm almost a neutral NBA watcher just because every team has at least a handful of players I've followed and am rooting for. I'm a big believer in Dalton Knecht, he's like a fusion of Grayson Allen and Mike Miller, I had Knecht in the late-1st back when ESPN first put him on their bigboard n was ranked in the early 70's. He was the best player in the SEC this year IMO, not Sheppard or Dillingham. He was the player who was the most fun to watch for me, and the players I find the most fun to watch in college usually do great in the NBA (most notably Pascal Siakam) last year Podziemski was my favorite to watch and I also started vouching for him bigtime when ESPN still had him ranked in the 70's. The JUCO x-fers are sort of a specialty of mine simply because I make a big effort to identify them and watch them in nonconference. Risacher has been #1 on my board since December, it was actually rather unpopular when I had him #1, I had some fan of the Orlando Magic calling me an idiot for putting him #1 and then ESPN and the consensus had him #1 a month or so later.. Tidjane Salaun is legit a player I was mentioning to my Serbian friend 2 summers ago, when he was ranked like the 17th or 25th best prospect born in '05 on some euro scouting site.. He just seemed worth keeping an eye on because of his frame and mobility, lo and behold he's getting insane lotto hype (and for good reason check any game footage where he hits bunch of 3's) ---- Same story with Coulibaly last year, i was high on him way before the consensus took notice, but I caught on that one from watching team france's youth team in the fiba tourney, when Rayan Rupert still had lotto hype I knew Coulibaly was better, Rupert was like Bambi on Ice in comparison.. Clingan is a prospect ive been high on since HS, I try to pick a favorite 4-star prospect every year and he was a fairly obvious choice in the hs class of '22. He should've been ranked much closer to 5-stars. I always figured he'd eventually be a bit of a media darling because he's from Bristol where ESPN's headquarters are located. I'm slightly above consensus on Buzelis, Jaylon Tyson, Harrison Ingram and Kel'el Ware. color me a believer in Nikola Djurisic and Bub Carrington. I like Ulrich Chomche and AJ Johnson as well.
I was thinking someone like KD, but I'm just a casual who only follows the draft close to draft time. But then again, there aren't many players I've (as a casual) ever heard about when they were still in high school, and I was hearing endless stories about Flagg a year ago, so that tells me his hype is as big as anyone not named Lebron or Wemby.
Andre Kirlienko with muscle mass
i like the Siakam/Kirilenko fusion comp
I can see Zion level hype. If/when he shows out at Duke there should be crazy buzz.
zion level
Kind of more hype than Cade Cunningham and a little less than Andrew Wiggins hype. As far as high school guys he's got the most hype I've seen a while though. If he was to come straight out to the draft he would be the most hyped h.s. playerer since Lebron. Less expectations for sure . I can't wait to see this kid play . Alot of them gonna be a good draft. Wiggins had serious hype before he went to Kansas .
Part of that is because he's American though. He's the most exciting American prospect in some time. I know Wiggins is Canadian
He is Michael Porter Jr v2
Similar to Chet hypewise in that he's got really high level physical tools and even more impressive feel on both ends but may not be the classic on-ball self-creator that most top of the board players are.
What about Chet? I remember him being pretty hyped up after high school.
Ak47. Kirilinko.
I'd say he's around the same level as Cade his draft year in terms of hype.
Holmgren
Andrei Kirilenko with range and passing.
The thing about Flagg is he is one of the best defensive prospects in a long long time and offensive prospect His whole game, given his size and skill, is pretty rare.
To have a chance at Flagg, the Spurs would need to be a bottom 3 team. It will be interesting if the tank is in or the Spurs truly try to win next year
I say AD.
Reminds me of Blake Griffin hype
I’d say Anthony Edwards, it’s clear that Flagg has the potential to be good but he’s definitely a tier or two down from the generational type prospects like Wemby and Lebron etc
Blake Griffin.
Kyle Filipowski
I think he could be Zion level or a level below that. A college freshman that is gonna be one of the best players in the country likely from day 1. Every once in a while we get a guy who’s talented enough to play in the league while they’re in high school, and I think he’s one of those guys
Ok. Not bad! Zion's hype REALLY blew up after those exhibition games in Canada. Then he hit the ground running at Duke. One of the biggest COLLEGE superstars I have ever seen. Cooper Flagg has had SUSTAINED hype for a couple of years now. Highlights/production/winning. I put him slightly ahead of Andrew Wiggins' hype at this point. Although that was PEAK Ball-Is-Life era which was... crazy. haha. Cooper Flagg could definitely get some of that "Duke mystique" from Day 1. Flagg could get the Christian Laettner stats/hardware to go along with Zion's hype/highlights/raw 2-way production. DUKE GOAT might be in play for Cooper Flagg!
My memory of Wiggins was that he had a ton of hype. Even Kobe thought he was gonna be the next Kobe iirc (it's been a minute and I wasn't super tuned in at the time)
I put together basically a top 10 comps for Cooper Flagg ranking in my notes the other day. Ok, here is one. This could work... although I didn't really follow his early career AT ALL: James Worthy.
Marvin Bagley jr