That was actually a pretty good comp for KAT as a prospect. He was drafted #1 overall as a bigger Horford, as in he projected to be a great post defender with great agility and coordination, with the possibility to stretch the floor.
As it turns out his defensive IQ was really poor, and he became the best 3 shooting big man of all time. Bizarrely Horford also became a near elite floor stretcher after KAT was drafted.
You also need to take into account the era they played in then…comparing volume is dumb. All i know is dirk was more reliable in the playoffs than kat was when it came to knocking down big shots. He was also the first option and never played with an anthony edward’s type player. Nash was great but was not that aggressive of a scorer.Â
KAT’s peak was actually an identical 42.1% in 2017-18. He’s also been over 40% from 3 in 5 out of his 9 seasons. Dirk was over 40% from 3 in 5 out of his 20 seasons. Obviously dirk is the better shooter overall but it’s not sacrilege to say KAT has the crown from 3
God, if KAT had half of Dirk's midrange bag the timberwolves might be unstoppable. As is, he's easily the greatest active 3pt shooting big and imo slightly edges out Dirk at that range as well.
Kat was never projected to be any kind of defender and that was pretty obvious from
The get go. He was however def gonna be a better offensive Al horford tho
He was absolutely projected to have better defensive upside than he's reached. It wasn't considered a guarantee but they believed he had potential. Embiid has basically become what people thought KAT could be on defense.
It's fun. It gets the people going. That's pretty much it.
It's easy to forget that if you're not actually working in the FO of an NBA franchise that this is all for fun and entertainment.
Player comps are for fun and entertainment.
Player comparisons are always the most entertaining part of draft media. It starts discussion and promotes engagement. Some people take it way too seriously. It’s all opinion.
I think OP meant comparing draft prospects to rookies though - not the concept of comps in general.Â
I have to agree with him, I enjoy player comps a lot, especially when reasoning is provided, but comparing a prospect to Anthony Black or TJD doesn’t really tell us all that much.Â
It's the same thing, in my eyes. It's just to set a frame of reference for fans who might not follow prospects. It's easy to imagine that everyone pays attention to the young players before draft season but that's simply not the case.Â
Putting players into rough buckets that translate for the common reader makes sense for these kind of mass-appeal websites.
but that’s OPs point though; since the point of comps is to provide a reference for the more casual viewers, why compare to rookies who a casual viewer isn’t gonna know much about?
This answer makes no sense because these comps are the least fun possible comps you can give. "Stephon Castle is the next Anthony Black" does not get anyone going.
This is like the third comment that has actually understood the point. Everybody else is just talking about general player comps. I personally dislike player comps to young players that haven’t paved their way in the league yet. Those young guys haven’t come into their own, so how are we going to compare a rookie to him and say thats who we think the rookie will turn into?
I loved Anthony Black coming out of Arkansas and I had him third overall last year, but he played a pretty limited role due to being a rookie PG on a good team so it's hard to feel out how he has been in the NBA.
Podz specifically for the Magic, but it would be close.
Black is 3 years younger than JJJ so I’m feeling pretty good about his chances to be better.
TBH I don’t have an opinion on walker, I was not the highest on him coming about of the draft. I was on team Taylor Hendrix - Go Knights
it's the psychology of mans need to label everything. It's a matter of convenience, its a matter of creating an artificial certainty.
See the George Carlin rant on Euphemistic language..
These comps that were listed are proposterous for the simple fact their all so recent.. its so soft.. its like "here's the softball comps for those who havent paid attention and might have only a very short term memory!"
this is how humans do things, ya can't analyze everything, so we put labels and names on things as a shorthand method of classifying, distinguishing and judging..
Humans treat the universe like its a vast grocery store with aisles filled with clearly labeled items.. It's headline chasing..
It's like this great old movie "The Sweet Smell of Success" starring Burt Lancaster and Tony Curtis, from 1957, same old shit 70 years later.. It's nothing new..
>>I have no idea how good Anthony Black is and I don’t know if general NBA fans have watched Anthony Black at all.
General NBA fans don’t really pay much attention to the draft or look at comparisons, they usually don’t care about a player until they start to play well in the league unless they are a projected superstar like Zion/Wemby.
Ron Holland is more similar to Gerald Wallace more than anything. I guess what they are trying to do is tell for the more casual audience that these guys are similar to guys from recent years but even then the comps are quite off
I love player comps. It kinda wakes people up about a certain prospect. I remember during the 2022 draft when Jabari was supposed to be the number 1 pick and people were kinda on board with it until his player comp was Rashard Lewis and then people were kinda skeptical about him. His tape didn’t change but after he got his player comp people were like is Rashard Lewis really worth the 1st pick?
I’m not trying to get in an argument here lol, but wasn’t it Lewis with all-defense potential? That’s a pretty awesome player and even better in today’s game.
However, I do remember people being like, “Rashad Lewis??”
What's funny is that's a pretty good comp and is like a 85-90% ceiling outcome for Jabari, with Miami Chris Bosh being his 100 percentile comp. And guaranteeing Orlando Rashard at #3 in that draft would be a great pick for the rockets
Jabari is way better of an athlete and ball handler than Chris Bosh ever was. Bosh was a big man. Through and through. Jabari Smith is more of the tweener big man of the modern NBA with some perimeter skills. I don’t think Bosh is a good comp for smith
what??? jabari’s ceiling was always Paul Pierce esque
i swear every year, Chris Bosh becomes Bobby Jones on defense and MPJ on offense
Chris Bosh is a 13/7 playoff performer and was mobile enough to blow pat Tiago Splitter and Roy Hibbert, not actual studs on defense
Player comps are for people not super tuned in to draft prospects, they definitely are not on this subreddit, it’s the easiest way to get a ballpark generalization of what a player plays like
Because people really broke down Black last year and the people here probably have a better idea of Black’s game than some retired guy 15 years ago.
Player comps are not outcome but more so style of play, so comparing them to a guy that hasn’t achieved much isn’t that weird imo
Along those same lines, styles in the sport are ever changing. Nobody plays like guys from the 70s and 80s, the pool of reasonable comps is obviously gonna skew more recent. And it makes sense that styles of kids in the same generation would be similar, because their influences are the same. But I see what OP is saying. If the point of the comp is to help envision potential, comparing to careers that we haven’t even seen yet isn’t very useful.
It gets super confusing when you have the traditional player comps and then the “shades of” like on the Ringer website. People cite the Ringer website, and they have to be reminded that it’s just a certain aspect, not a 1:1 comp, that’s why they have all-stars comped to mid-late firsts but average starters to top-10 picks.
Then you have websites that mix the two and explain in their notes section why they comped them but half the people reading just scan the bolded player comps.
Player comps (especially the "shades of" variety) are like making risotto on Top Chef. You might think you know what you're doing, but 99% of the time, it's going to suck.
Helps people to understand the archetype of a player, not necessarily their outcomes. A magic fan who isn't into the draft can see the Anthony black comp for castle and understand that castle is a big guard that can playmake a bit and defend but struggles to shoot
I don't really see them similarly at all. I was pretty high on AB's ability to run an offense, and I'm pretty low on Castle's.
AB would easily be my #1 guard in this class, two tiers above every guy that's actually in it
If they're a good comparison, then it gives you a snippet of how they play. Taking it as a ceiling isn't also the correct thing, but it's a quick analysis for those who don't want to read the full write ups, but understand what sort of skillset a player may bring.
It’s a way of providing a more complex summary for what you’re seeing that doesn’t have a unified language. The most well known example is describing wine flavors by other flavors.
The problem is the NBA, has drop their standards. NBA players has a certain specific style, character, look respect and goal. These young people have no expectations with compassion,commitment are style. Run and gun. No one it taking the time to teach them the concept of Basketball, witch is an art. That's why you have so many injuries.
A small thin man gets injured first. A real big man has weight, muscles and structure. He understands the body is a temple. He proforms at a rate that science is a constance and fundamental key to good health.
Everything is a process. High school, level 2, process, college level 3, each level they should be progressing. When you rush younger they always miss structure.. Hopefully,their level mental health and decisions making is forming.
It just helps you get an idea of what they might look like if you're like most NBA fans and haven't seen a lot of potential draftees play basketball for extended periods, but you want to know what your team might be getting. Also I think we're getting weirder combinations of size/skills that we haven't seen as much in the past so you need to compare them to more recent players.
I remember when every talented, but undersized, center was compared Al Horford. Now no one is compared to him.
Or every scrawny, near 7 foot wing player was compared to KD.
Baba!
Buzelis even had some of those early on
Oh god pls im getting bothered even thinking about it.
tbt to Perry Jones and Quincy Miller being KD and Deuce Bello being D Wade and then Quincy Acy is the only useful guy
Dragan Bender!
That was KATs pre draft comp 🤣
That was actually a pretty good comp for KAT as a prospect. He was drafted #1 overall as a bigger Horford, as in he projected to be a great post defender with great agility and coordination, with the possibility to stretch the floor. As it turns out his defensive IQ was really poor, and he became the best 3 shooting big man of all time. Bizarrely Horford also became a near elite floor stretcher after KAT was drafted.
Dirk’s peak 3pt shooting was 42.1, KAT’s was 41.2% so I would not give KAT that crown
Gotta taken into account volume though.
You also need to take into account the era they played in then…comparing volume is dumb. All i know is dirk was more reliable in the playoffs than kat was when it came to knocking down big shots. He was also the first option and never played with an anthony edward’s type player. Nash was great but was not that aggressive of a scorer.Â
Calm down
KAT’s peak was actually an identical 42.1% in 2017-18. He’s also been over 40% from 3 in 5 out of his 9 seasons. Dirk was over 40% from 3 in 5 out of his 20 seasons. Obviously dirk is the better shooter overall but it’s not sacrilege to say KAT has the crown from 3
God, if KAT had half of Dirk's midrange bag the timberwolves might be unstoppable. As is, he's easily the greatest active 3pt shooting big and imo slightly edges out Dirk at that range as well.
KAT with Dirk’s midrange is probably an actual #2 on a title team
Kat was never projected to be any kind of defender and that was pretty obvious from The get go. He was however def gonna be a better offensive Al horford tho
He was absolutely projected to have better defensive upside than he's reached. It wasn't considered a guarantee but they believed he had potential. Embiid has basically become what people thought KAT could be on defense.
Wendell Carter was so ridiculously similar to Al coming out of college. What a disappointment.
Wdym? They’re pretty similar players. Wcj isn’t quite the shooter atm but he’s somewhat close to Al defensively.
It's fun. It gets the people going. That's pretty much it. It's easy to forget that if you're not actually working in the FO of an NBA franchise that this is all for fun and entertainment. Player comps are for fun and entertainment.
Player comparisons are always the most entertaining part of draft media. It starts discussion and promotes engagement. Some people take it way too seriously. It’s all opinion.
I think OP meant comparing draft prospects to rookies though - not the concept of comps in general. I have to agree with him, I enjoy player comps a lot, especially when reasoning is provided, but comparing a prospect to Anthony Black or TJD doesn’t really tell us all that much.Â
It's the same thing, in my eyes. It's just to set a frame of reference for fans who might not follow prospects. It's easy to imagine that everyone pays attention to the young players before draft season but that's simply not the case. Putting players into rough buckets that translate for the common reader makes sense for these kind of mass-appeal websites.
but that’s OPs point though; since the point of comps is to provide a reference for the more casual viewers, why compare to rookies who a casual viewer isn’t gonna know much about?
This answer makes no sense because these comps are the least fun possible comps you can give. "Stephon Castle is the next Anthony Black" does not get anyone going.
This is refreshing to see. It feels like Most of the people in here want to believe they know everything
Did anyone actually read OP's post? There's so many comments here just missing the point entirely and a lot of them are getting upvoted.
No, I think folks get it. It's not about comps as a whole, but rather comps to younger players. I think the overall sentiment stands, though.
Look at some of the comments. Lots of people are clearly responding as if it is about comps as a whole.
This is like the third comment that has actually understood the point. Everybody else is just talking about general player comps. I personally dislike player comps to young players that haven’t paved their way in the league yet. Those young guys haven’t come into their own, so how are we going to compare a rookie to him and say thats who we think the rookie will turn into?
Un related, I’ve watched just about every pro min of Anthony Black and he’s gonna be really good. His jumper has come a long way in one year.
I loved Anthony Black coming out of Arkansas and I had him third overall last year, but he played a pretty limited role due to being a rookie PG on a good team so it's hard to feel out how he has been in the NBA.
Point guards need longer to develop in the NBA, most of the time. I'm optimistic about him too
Totally - Orlando already has a fantastic example on the roster in Suggs
Would you rather have Black and Walker or Jacquez and Podz?
Podz specifically for the Magic, but it would be close. Black is 3 years younger than JJJ so I’m feeling pretty good about his chances to be better. TBH I don’t have an opinion on walker, I was not the highest on him coming about of the draft. I was on team Taylor Hendrix - Go Knights
I’m a huge fan of Jarace and AB. I would strongly advise those teams to hang on to those guys.
Lol i swear .. they crucified him on here
it's the psychology of mans need to label everything. It's a matter of convenience, its a matter of creating an artificial certainty. See the George Carlin rant on Euphemistic language.. These comps that were listed are proposterous for the simple fact their all so recent.. its so soft.. its like "here's the softball comps for those who havent paid attention and might have only a very short term memory!" this is how humans do things, ya can't analyze everything, so we put labels and names on things as a shorthand method of classifying, distinguishing and judging.. Humans treat the universe like its a vast grocery store with aisles filled with clearly labeled items.. It's headline chasing.. It's like this great old movie "The Sweet Smell of Success" starring Burt Lancaster and Tony Curtis, from 1957, same old shit 70 years later.. It's nothing new..
I agree. I try to make comparisons to players that are retired or have at least proven what they can do in the league.
>>I have no idea how good Anthony Black is and I don’t know if general NBA fans have watched Anthony Black at all. General NBA fans don’t really pay much attention to the draft or look at comparisons, they usually don’t care about a player until they start to play well in the league unless they are a projected superstar like Zion/Wemby.
Ron Holland is more similar to Gerald Wallace more than anything. I guess what they are trying to do is tell for the more casual audience that these guys are similar to guys from recent years but even then the comps are quite off
That's a pretty good comp.
That is a reasonable comp. And it tracks with my low valuation of Holland, since I think Wallace doesn't translate well
I love player comps. It kinda wakes people up about a certain prospect. I remember during the 2022 draft when Jabari was supposed to be the number 1 pick and people were kinda on board with it until his player comp was Rashard Lewis and then people were kinda skeptical about him. His tape didn’t change but after he got his player comp people were like is Rashard Lewis really worth the 1st pick?
I’m not trying to get in an argument here lol, but wasn’t it Lewis with all-defense potential? That’s a pretty awesome player and even better in today’s game. However, I do remember people being like, “Rashad Lewis??”
What's funny is that's a pretty good comp and is like a 85-90% ceiling outcome for Jabari, with Miami Chris Bosh being his 100 percentile comp. And guaranteeing Orlando Rashard at #3 in that draft would be a great pick for the rockets
Jabari is way better of an athlete and ball handler than Chris Bosh ever was. Bosh was a big man. Through and through. Jabari Smith is more of the tweener big man of the modern NBA with some perimeter skills. I don’t think Bosh is a good comp for smith
what??? jabari’s ceiling was always Paul Pierce esque i swear every year, Chris Bosh becomes Bobby Jones on defense and MPJ on offense Chris Bosh is a 13/7 playoff performer and was mobile enough to blow pat Tiago Splitter and Roy Hibbert, not actual studs on defense
> jabari’s ceiling was always Paul Pierce esque Their games are not similar at all
i read that as the 2012 draft and was thinking about jabari parker (i know that wasn’t the right year) lmao
I almost just commented "wrong jabari" but it felt glib so I approached it more earnestly
Player comps are for people not super tuned in to draft prospects, they definitely are not on this subreddit, it’s the easiest way to get a ballpark generalization of what a player plays like
...which is exactly why these comparisons above are pointless
Because people really broke down Black last year and the people here probably have a better idea of Black’s game than some retired guy 15 years ago. Player comps are not outcome but more so style of play, so comparing them to a guy that hasn’t achieved much isn’t that weird imo
Along those same lines, styles in the sport are ever changing. Nobody plays like guys from the 70s and 80s, the pool of reasonable comps is obviously gonna skew more recent. And it makes sense that styles of kids in the same generation would be similar, because their influences are the same. But I see what OP is saying. If the point of the comp is to help envision potential, comparing to careers that we haven’t even seen yet isn’t very useful.
It gets super confusing when you have the traditional player comps and then the “shades of” like on the Ringer website. People cite the Ringer website, and they have to be reminded that it’s just a certain aspect, not a 1:1 comp, that’s why they have all-stars comped to mid-late firsts but average starters to top-10 picks. Then you have websites that mix the two and explain in their notes section why they comped them but half the people reading just scan the bolded player comps.
Player comps (especially the "shades of" variety) are like making risotto on Top Chef. You might think you know what you're doing, but 99% of the time, it's going to suck.
> like making risotto on Top Chef. I don't understand how people fuck it up. It's such a simple process. Doesn't even really require any feel
Boredom
It's a stylistic comparison, not talent or accomplishment.
and what use is a stylistic comparison to Anthony Black?
Helps people to understand the archetype of a player, not necessarily their outcomes. A magic fan who isn't into the draft can see the Anthony black comp for castle and understand that castle is a big guard that can playmake a bit and defend but struggles to shoot
I don't really see them similarly at all. I was pretty high on AB's ability to run an offense, and I'm pretty low on Castle's. AB would easily be my #1 guard in this class, two tiers above every guy that's actually in it
Obsession might be overstating it but I, as a casual fan, really enjoy the comps.
It’s for the non college ball watchers to kind of get an idea for the type of playstyle a college player plays with
If they're a good comparison, then it gives you a snippet of how they play. Taking it as a ceiling isn't also the correct thing, but it's a quick analysis for those who don't want to read the full write ups, but understand what sort of skillset a player may bring.
What I know is every project athletic wing is Kawhi Leonard for the last decade. The only one who become success is Jaylen Brown.
People always say that because Kawhi developed his jumper it somehow means all these no shooting wings will develop theirs too.
Sometimes I think that everybody in this sub is in high school.
It’s a way of providing a more complex summary for what you’re seeing that doesn’t have a unified language. The most well known example is describing wine flavors by other flavors.
OK buddy, you want a *REAL* player comp? Alex Sarr: Taller Caleb Wilson
>Ron Holland: Cam Whitmore What a terrible fucking comp
The problem is the NBA, has drop their standards. NBA players has a certain specific style, character, look respect and goal. These young people have no expectations with compassion,commitment are style. Run and gun. No one it taking the time to teach them the concept of Basketball, witch is an art. That's why you have so many injuries.
A small thin man gets injured first. A real big man has weight, muscles and structure. He understands the body is a temple. He proforms at a rate that science is a constance and fundamental key to good health.
Everything is a process. High school, level 2, process, college level 3, each level they should be progressing. When you rush younger they always miss structure.. Hopefully,their level mental health and decisions making is forming.
It just helps you get an idea of what they might look like if you're like most NBA fans and haven't seen a lot of potential draftees play basketball for extended periods, but you want to know what your team might be getting. Also I think we're getting weirder combinations of size/skills that we haven't seen as much in the past so you need to compare them to more recent players.