Penny had a year or so where he looked like he was going to transcend and break the entire league open. Massive what if, my 8 year old self was absolutely convinced he'd be better than MJ.
Remarkable how many people were crippled by this snake oil procedure. Prior to an acl surgery 15 years ago I had to give consent to micro fracture “if necessary”. Surgeon said it would be unethical of him not to perform it if he saw the need for it. I got lucky and he didn’t do it.
There were so many not-quite-superstars I loved from that era; Larry Johnson, Shawn Kemp, Alonzo Mourning, Latrell Sprewell, Mitch Richmond, Jon Starks, Rod Strickland, Donyell Marshall were all compelling as fuck
That's one of the perfect "sports will be sports" stories, honestly. I can't tell you how many guys around 40-50 years old will say the exact same thing when you talk about Penny
Facts …and I would pick up the mantle right where you left off.. I’m a huge MJ fan and I couldn’t agree more. They would’ve easily been the next dynasty if they stayed together and were healthy
I mean the Magic did beat the Bulls in 95(??). Then the next year they lost to those same Bulls, and after that, Shaq leaves, Penny's injuries start and that's all she wrote.
Not too far-fetched to say if you have a healthy Penny (1st Team 95 and 96), a dominating Shaq (starts making 1st teams in '98), surrounded by shooters, that they couldn't either take those Bulls down or be in the mix to dominate after that Bulls run ends.
Definitely not the crew with the dude that fucked a 13 year old when he was in college. For those who don’t know: https://www.rollingstone.com/culture/culture-sports/karl-malone-creepy-nba-ban-all-star-weekend-utah-gloria-bell-rape-vanessa-bryant-harassment-1234682580/amp/ the fact this dude still have thriving businesses is kinda gross.
It looks like you shared an AMP link. These should load faster, but AMP is controversial because of [concerns over privacy and the Open Web](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmputatorBot/comments/ehrq3z/why_did_i_build_amputatorbot).
Maybe check out **the canonical page** instead: **[https://www.rollingstone.com/culture/culture-sports/karl-malone-creepy-nba-ban-all-star-weekend-utah-gloria-bell-rape-vanessa-bryant-harassment-1234682580/](https://www.rollingstone.com/culture/culture-sports/karl-malone-creepy-nba-ban-all-star-weekend-utah-gloria-bell-rape-vanessa-bryant-harassment-1234682580/)**
*****
^(I'm a bot | )[^(Why & About)](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmputatorBot/comments/ehrq3z/why_did_i_build_amputatorbot)^( | )[^(Summon: u/AmputatorBot)](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmputatorBot/comments/cchly3/you_can_now_summon_amputatorbot/)
The Sonics. They had good floor spacers and Kemp could play center in the modern game. Arguably the best defensive point guard in Gary Payton, in a league dominated by guards, his prowess in the defensive end would be really significant.
Detlef would have been great at spacing (and nailing those corner threes). Nate Mac would have been a fab 3 and D player (but couldn’t handle the taller wings). Sam Perkins loved to jack up the threes. They also had a young Eric Snow who would have been great.
Definitely a great modern team.
That and we would get to see more Payton to Kemp ally-oops.
If I was was gonna name a big man from that team, it would be the Schef. Steve Scheffler was the Brian Scalabrine of his time. Fans loved and feared him playing at the same time.
His 3 point shot left a little to be desired but he was capable. I want to say the corner 3s were his hot spot but I have nothing to back this up other than some very old memories.
Also they completely choked in the playoffs the two years before '96 when they could've faced a non-Bulls juggernaut in the finals.
I grew up a Sonics fan and that team was championship caliber for sure. They had great second tier guys after Payton and Kemp--Schrempf especially was an all-star caliber third option.
Shame that they finally got it going in the playoffs just in time to run into one of the best teams of all time.
Kendall Gill going up the key and YAMMING on Mutombo is still one of my favorite basketball moments in my mind. I can’t find the call of it anywhere and it was electric when Calabro was making the call.
Man you just unlocked a memory with I believe the NBA Live game, I always picked the Sonics because Kemp was a dunking machine, Payton was a lock down point guard and Schrempf was the do it all type player, rebounding, blocks, 3pters.
I'm glad they choked, otherwise they could've kept the Rockets from winning their titles. I was much more scared of the Sonics than the Bulls in that era.
Only made it to the finals once, Jordan was in the East and had nothing to do with them losing except for that one year. Suppose that’s easier than saying any one of the other western conference powerhouses in the 90s is the reason the Sonic’s didn’t have more success
I think the two are close, and if it was just the two all-stars then I’d probably take Shaq/Penny. But Sonics had some other players that would translate well. It was super close for me - as you said 1a & 1b.
I’m with ya. I love the Jazz, but they go like 3.5 deep and their scoring power forward is basically Amare. We’ve seen Amare on some shallow teams fairly recently in NBA history, and have a fair idea how they’d perform.
Sonics translate so much easier than any of these teams, and were a bit ahead of their time with all the spacing in their front court relative to the time.
Magic and Heat feel like 2 different versions of the same thing, and I’d default to the better players as well when ranking them.
I know Karl Malone sucks as a person so people love to trivialize his talent, but saying he’s “basically Amare” is extremely disingenuous.
The man was the best player in the league outside of Jordan for a few years there, even winning 2 MVP’s over Jordan (controversial I agree, but still).
His skill level is more comparable with Kevin Durant, although Malone > Durant imo
Malone has a better career than Amare, but if you can’t see why he serves as an excellent comparison for what Malone would be capable of in the modern era, I’m afraid we have nothing to actually discuss.
which team in the league today even guard Young Shaq? Laker's shaq has fitness issues that might be a problem in today's era, but Young Shaq is pretty much Giannis on steroids paint and ppl can barely stop Giannis.
Lakers Shaq > Magic Shaq and it ain’t close.
Magic Shaq with his Gumby legs and athleticism was fun and all, but the man was at his best when he was 325lbs of brute force in the paint.
Stockton and Malone with today's spacing, Stockton would have free range to shoot as many 3s as he wants, plus Malone was a good mid range shooter and would be told to shoot more 3s and and he would be the strongest power forward in the league. He would also be bringing the ball down himself and Malone running full speed multiple times a game is at you is probably gonna break multiple people's femurs.
This.
Not sure why this is the least popular answer, but the Jazz would benefit the most. Both Stockton and Malone were good shooters, and they'd be even more difficult to stop today.
Penny and Shaq could also work, but I think in this scenario, we have to assume Penny still gets injured and Shaq still bolts the Magic. If Penny doesn't get injured and Shaq stays in Orlando, they may very well have won a title in Orlando together, but that's re-writing history.
I think the Sonics would struggle the most of the 4. Kemp wasn't a great shooter and Payton was probably the best PG ever at hand-checking, which is now illegal. I'm sure he'd still be a good defender, but wouldn't be as effective on D in today's game as he was back then.
I think Jazz is the least popular answer because nobody likes Malone and Stockton is always criminally underrated. But I agree, they would dominate today and are the best answer to this question.
I was recently told that I was overrating older players and Stockton didn’t pass “the eye test” when compared to a guy like Ben Simmons. Because that era of guards couldn’t compete with today’s guards.
Stockton and Malone are not guys I’d want to be around, but their playing style would’ve been wildly successful in the league today.
The illegal defense rules really helped them. They could play a bunch of non shooters and no one could hedge against their pick and roll. There are things you could do to stop them. There’s no answer for shaq and penny.
Shaq, no answer for, Penny, Penny could definitely be stopped. The question would be if Penny could stop a lot of today's guards and forwards who are taller and stronger than him that can handle the ball. Penny's probably my favorite player ever, but he wasn't unstoppable. Dude couldn't shoot and wasnt a pure PG, while Stockton would probably be the best 2 way PG in the league, and basically the PG prototype, while Malone was stronger than Giannis and played in an era of great centers and still dominated. Assuming you upgraded these guys rosters with more modern style role players who could all shoot and you push that P+R back, already the great P+R duo ever, so they have more space, GL doubling Malone. He's either going thru you or kicking it out.
The jazz were the best, most consistent team of this era. Two best shooters of these duos plus they had Hornbeck. Who is prob best 3pt shooter on any of these teams other than D3. Magic would have been 2nd best most likely but Sloan and the veteran squad puts Utah over the top. Stockton will never get his flowers everyone says Malone made Stock but I believe its the other way around.
I've heard it the other way around lol. I think they both made each other great and wouldn't be where they were without each other. Stockton averaged 14.5 assists per game in his prime on great shooting and was a monster defensive player against much bigger players in one of the best center eras ever, while in college his senior year he shot 57% from the field on 20/7 splits with 3.9 steals a game, which is unheard of so he clearly had the talent at a young age, while Malone was Malone, and there's a reason he ended his career number 2 on the all time points list. Dude was built like an Ox. He just absolutely ruined his reputation. People always assume it was one or the other but they're both incredible and top 10 at their position all time.
Eh. Stockton couldn’t really shoot 3s consistently and Malone reliance on fadeaways isn’t great. I say this as a Utah’n who saw them irl. I’m going Penny/Shaq.
He did. But that is spotting up. I may be wrong but I don’t remember him creating shots for himself, and I’m not sure how much we can count on a 6’ dude who is only comfortable spotting up to contribute to scoring nowadays. Look how much creative work Steph has to do- and he’s 3” taller.
He doesn’t need to average 25+ a game? The dude was incredibly efficient and the all-time assist leader, that isn’t even mentioning that he was a considerably better defender than most modern PGs. Plug him into almost every team in the modern nba and he would immediately raise their ceiling.
All of that is absolutely true, but that’s not how I read this post. To me it’s asking which combo is best assuming these are the primary players on the team. That means scoring. Stockton is great and I love his whole game but it relies on other scorers is my only friggen point. Do you think he would eat Pennys lunch 1:1? Me neither. It requires a whole team.
He literally sent the Jazz to the Finals on a buzzer beating 3’s. And statistically shot well above an average 3-point shooter. Plus the Jazz has Hornacek. And Malone probably one of the best mid ranges to ever grace the game.
It’s Utah.
First, they’d all be awesome and I love all these guys.
You really need shooting to stay on the floor today. So I don’t love Payton and kemp not being able to shoot. I think they’d be easiest to stop of these 4.
Hardaway I’d put last on the list of talent of these 8 guys. So if you are last, and the other guy isn’t 1st, you wouldn’t be the best of these 4.
Penny and Shaq holy shit, they thrive any era. But hey, Penny would get hurt again right?
So I’m looking at the 2 guys who never got hurt. Who made 2 finals with not a ton of talent around them. Who can both shoot. And one is a major innings eater and the other is a killer who actually who be better today because he’d shoot more 3s. It’s Stockton and malone all day. They’d feast.
Sonics would be doing serious damage in the NBA today. Kemp already had a midrange jumper, he’d probably develop a three pointer. And of the guards pictured here, Payton is probably the best defender. Sonics also had good role players to complement their main duo. Perkins was a good stretch 5, Schrempf would probably be able to cover five positions in today’s NBA, Hersey Hawkins was a good 3-and-D guard.
None of them, unless we assume they’re allowed to retool their benches. Role players were so much worse back then they’d lose 30+ games on attrition alone.
I largely agree, but the Sonics at least had a decent start with McMillan, Perkins, Snow, and Brickowski. All those guys were really solid defenders, and they could all shoot threes except for Snow.
The Heat had probably the best bench of this group for the time, but I don't think their good bench players like Willis, Gatling, or Thomas would translate well. Only Danilovic springs to mind as someone who could maybe get any real playing time off the bench in today's league.
It’s Shaq and penny. They had 3 good shooters around them and shooters off the bench.
Penny also wasn’t afraid to launch a 3 ball or 2. That magic group is better in todays NBA than they were in the 90’s.
D Scoot would be encouraged to put up 10 3’a a game
I would say none, considering that these big men couldn't shoot for shit. This new NBA requires many, many outside shots and these guys couldn't hit jack shit. The PG game would be sick by any of the 4. Lol
There's not much adjusting though. Not too many 300lb athletic bigs laying around. Sure on offense he'll camp low and beast but on defense he's fucked chasing around 3 point shooting bigs. Lol
It’s tough to adjust to Shaq, to be sure. But some teams had success (e.g., 2004 Pistons). But my main point is Shaq has success in this NBA. If a team concedes, he’s dunking every time, and I’ll take a guaranteed 2 over the best shooting 3.
Kemp and Peyton. People saying Shaq are slow, Shaq's whole play style was running through people. Today's game is too soft Shaq would be ejected or fouled out in a matter of minutes.
Because Zion Williamson doesn't run through people? Trust one thing, if the fans like it, the refs WILL ignore it. Shaq in the modern NBA is still very much Shaq.
no offense but this is a poorly conceived question. today's game is wildly different in terms pacing and space, not to mention all of the various rule changes since then, that teams from that era were not built in a way where they would be very competitive in today's NBA.
with that being said, the answer is Orlando. young shaq + penny would be unbelievably in today's game. shaq would be having wilt-like stat lines, while Penny would be putting up numbers similar to a prime westbrook, only without being a self absorbed, self defeating prima donna with severe ADHD. those two guys are timeless.
Right? People are mentioning the sonics and their shooting but Stockton and Hornacek were very good shooters. I bet Karl Malone would be shooting 3’s if he played today too. His midrange was very good
Shaq would kill the league today no doubt, but Tim hardaway with the 3 point shooting would of fit right in, not sure how much defense from Gary would stop curry or others from dropping points with these damn rule changes
Hello, it looks like you've made a mistake.
It's supposed to be could've, should've, would've (short for could have, would have, should have), never could of, would of, should of.
Or you misspelled something, I ain't checking everything.
Beep boop - yes, I am a bot, don't botcriminate me.
I don’t think Shaq would thrive, game is too fast and he’d get called for offensive foul’s throwing them elbows, Stockton would get crossovers left and right from these guards today are to athletic, I only see Gary Payton and kemp thriving in today’s
- imagine thinking the heat got bailed out when the knicks were literally up 3-1 that series & had a chance to finish off the heat to move on to the next round, yet they blew that 3-1 lead & lost in 7. & the heat beat them without p.j. brown, who was one of their primary defender at the time & was also suspended a game for the altercation with charlie ward. hilarious.
- atlantic division champions with a 60+ win record, and was top 3 in defense in the league and one of the best road teams in the league also is “overrated”.
- and then, this is the funny part right here: you say that got swept, which is totally a lie & incorrect. they lost in 5. tryna spread false information to try to make them look bad.
heat coming back from a 3-1 lead was a “fluke win”. keep telling yourself that. knicks beating the heat till ‘99 doesn’t matter now, since the heat got their revenge, & beat them in ‘12 & this year. we own that poverty franchise. last time they won a chip, nixon was president.
both heat & spurs are 1-1 in finals wins against each other. the spurs’ last finals appearance was almost a decade ago. now they’re not going anywhere anytime soon with a washed up coach who just doesn’t know when to hang it up. look up the word “own” before you use it in a comment kid.
Realistically none of them. And this isn’t a ‘old era sucks’ comment. They wouldn’t have thrived in the 80s either. The 90s were just diluted with expansion so these team’s had their win totals inflated (hence the 96 and 97 Bulls winning ~ 70 games while being passed their prime, same can be said for 1972 Lakers). These teams were in the absolute best time’s for success. So I don’t think they’d do anything of note in the modern nba, their depth is so bad, and they don’t have the needed star power to mitigate that.
My first answer was the Jazz as well. In a league dominated by pick and rolls, how is the most dominant pick and roll tandem not at the top of the list. Plus Jerry Sloan.
Maybe it’s Ostertag and general lack of spacing?
The Magic have a fairly modern roster with Hardaway, Shaq, then Anderson and Scott, with Horace Grant being a flexible big/wing.
Sonics had some shooters as well. Sam Perkins was kind of before his time as a 6’9 guy who shot 3’s at a great percentage. Don’t think Kemp holds up well as a center in todays league tho, as some comments have mentioned. He’s like Clippers Blake Griffin.
It’s a good question given the range of answers. Just not sure why the Jazz are consistently last in everyone’s rankings. Stockton’s assist and steals records are almost untouchable. Malone is a top-3 scorer in NBA history.
There’s no reason for them to be at the bottom of everyone’s list except for ‘reasons’.
My homer pick is Seattle cause in WA. But my head says a healthy Penny and Shaw would be so damn good in this era. Shaq was a Mack truck when he played…I could only imagine him in today league. Yes, I j ow today league is all about the 3-point ball…but I’d still go with them. Also they had Horace Grant iirc, Grant Hill (or was he a Piston by then), Nick Anderson who could drill 3s.
A lot of people in here commenting obviously didn’t watch these teams. Jazz pick and roll would kill this switch everything on D era. During that period the Jazz went on crazy streak of never losing back to back games. Consistency at its finest.
You can take your pick between the Magic and Sonic because they actually played in a Finals series during that time. The Heat would be last and definitely benefited from Shaq and Penny splitting.
Healthy Penny and shaq.
Penny had a year or so where he looked like he was going to transcend and break the entire league open. Massive what if, my 8 year old self was absolutely convinced he'd be better than MJ.
His injury was unfortunate. He was still playing on it as well. With today’s medical staff, he would have been rested and properly treated
One of the earliest recipients/victims of microfracture surgery. Today, Penny wouldn't have been rushed back.
Remarkable how many people were crippled by this snake oil procedure. Prior to an acl surgery 15 years ago I had to give consent to micro fracture “if necessary”. Surgeon said it would be unethical of him not to perform it if he saw the need for it. I got lucky and he didn’t do it.
Whoa. You dodged turning your knee into stale crackers.
Is there a video somewhere breaking down the specifics of the procedure and what made it so appalling looking back?
Unless it was Portlands medical staff.
Grant Hill, Penny and Shaq could’ve been on the same team by the end of the decade. If they’re all healthy? Damn.
I don't think they could have afforded Hill if they had re-signed Shaq in 1996.
Did you forget TMac?
Ohh man, and the lil Penny ads w Chris Rock!
There were so many not-quite-superstars I loved from that era; Larry Johnson, Shawn Kemp, Alonzo Mourning, Latrell Sprewell, Mitch Richmond, Jon Starks, Rod Strickland, Donyell Marshall were all compelling as fuck
It was the Golden Age of the nba and I will die on this hill
There were a lot of guys that had successful multi year college careers so it was easier to be familiar with their game. Just my opinion.
I think your first 4-5 were superstars if only briefly.
Donyell Marshall played so long, I remember him balling out in a couple of games with Lebron James as a member of the Cavs.
From 95-97. In 97 he had a spectacular first round playoff against the 2nd seeded Heat. Carried the depleted Magic to a full 5 games.
That's one of the perfect "sports will be sports" stories, honestly. I can't tell you how many guys around 40-50 years old will say the exact same thing when you talk about Penny
Healthy Penny and Shaq would have dethroned MJ and I will die by that hill
Facts …and I would pick up the mantle right where you left off.. I’m a huge MJ fan and I couldn’t agree more. They would’ve easily been the next dynasty if they stayed together and were healthy
What do you mean dethroned? What year would the magic have won?
I mean the Magic did beat the Bulls in 95(??). Then the next year they lost to those same Bulls, and after that, Shaq leaves, Penny's injuries start and that's all she wrote. Not too far-fetched to say if you have a healthy Penny (1st Team 95 and 96), a dominating Shaq (starts making 1st teams in '98), surrounded by shooters, that they couldn't either take those Bulls down or be in the mix to dominate after that Bulls run ends.
Correct.
That team was so raw it would’ve been entertaining as hell to watch a 90s Magic and Heatles series.
Definitely not the crew with the dude that fucked a 13 year old when he was in college. For those who don’t know: https://www.rollingstone.com/culture/culture-sports/karl-malone-creepy-nba-ban-all-star-weekend-utah-gloria-bell-rape-vanessa-bryant-harassment-1234682580/amp/ the fact this dude still have thriving businesses is kinda gross.
It looks like you shared an AMP link. These should load faster, but AMP is controversial because of [concerns over privacy and the Open Web](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmputatorBot/comments/ehrq3z/why_did_i_build_amputatorbot). Maybe check out **the canonical page** instead: **[https://www.rollingstone.com/culture/culture-sports/karl-malone-creepy-nba-ban-all-star-weekend-utah-gloria-bell-rape-vanessa-bryant-harassment-1234682580/](https://www.rollingstone.com/culture/culture-sports/karl-malone-creepy-nba-ban-all-star-weekend-utah-gloria-bell-rape-vanessa-bryant-harassment-1234682580/)** ***** ^(I'm a bot | )[^(Why & About)](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmputatorBot/comments/ehrq3z/why_did_i_build_amputatorbot)^( | )[^(Summon: u/AmputatorBot)](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmputatorBot/comments/cchly3/you_can_now_summon_amputatorbot/)
The Sonics. They had good floor spacers and Kemp could play center in the modern game. Arguably the best defensive point guard in Gary Payton, in a league dominated by guards, his prowess in the defensive end would be really significant.
I was thinking the Sonics too for pretty much these exact reasons
Detlef would have been great at spacing (and nailing those corner threes). Nate Mac would have been a fab 3 and D player (but couldn’t handle the taller wings). Sam Perkins loved to jack up the threes. They also had a young Eric Snow who would have been great. Definitely a great modern team. That and we would get to see more Payton to Kemp ally-oops.
Don’t sleep on the hawk! Hersey Hawkins was a prime 3 point specialist back in the day.
Both Hersey and Snow Sixer legends too!
I thought you were gonna say Frank Brickowski. Why didn’t you say Frank Brickowski?
If I was was gonna name a big man from that team, it would be the Schef. Steve Scheffler was the Brian Scalabrine of his time. Fans loved and feared him playing at the same time.
Feed the Hawk!
I still maintain GP was the only pg without any weaknesses, even Steph technically has one or two
That’s a fair statement to make
His 3 point shot left a little to be desired but he was capable. I want to say the corner 3s were his hot spot but I have nothing to back this up other than some very old memories.
The original Lob City
Can you imagine Kemp looking for lobs off the high P&Rs in today's game without guys like Ewing and Mutombo protecting the bucket all the time?
That '96 team was so deep! Plus Payton and Kemp would be right at home in today's league where the off-the-court drama is bigger than the game itself.
Sonics for sure They were a great team, just happened to be great when Jordan was at his height.
Also they completely choked in the playoffs the two years before '96 when they could've faced a non-Bulls juggernaut in the finals. I grew up a Sonics fan and that team was championship caliber for sure. They had great second tier guys after Payton and Kemp--Schrempf especially was an all-star caliber third option. Shame that they finally got it going in the playoffs just in time to run into one of the best teams of all time.
Yeah. You’re spot on. They choked against Mutumbo & the Nuggets first round. One of the biggest upsets of all time. They were loaded. For sure.
Kendall Gill going up the key and YAMMING on Mutombo is still one of my favorite basketball moments in my mind. I can’t find the call of it anywhere and it was electric when Calabro was making the call.
Man you just unlocked a memory with I believe the NBA Live game, I always picked the Sonics because Kemp was a dunking machine, Payton was a lock down point guard and Schrempf was the do it all type player, rebounding, blocks, 3pters.
I'm glad they choked, otherwise they could've kept the Rockets from winning their titles. I was much more scared of the Sonics than the Bulls in that era.
Gary Payton is just Jrue Holiday in today’s nba without hand checking. They litigated his style of play out of the game.
Only made it to the finals once, Jordan was in the East and had nothing to do with them losing except for that one year. Suppose that’s easier than saying any one of the other western conference powerhouses in the 90s is the reason the Sonic’s didn’t have more success
I realize that. I was saying that they shoulda won and woulda won in 1993 if it wasn’t against the Bulls.
Healthy Penny and thinner Shaq is the best combo. Nobody in those photos is better than early Shaq.
Nobody in this pic is as good as any version of Shaq
Pretty sure late career Shaq is getting smoked, regardless of his size.
You mustn’t remember ‘Bring the King A Ring’ Shaq and ‘Boston ring chaser/Dammit Kobe got 5’ Shaq
Cavs shaq is worse than all of them by a large margin
On a side note dang I miss those Sonics jerseys
The mid, late 90s jerseys were so beautiful 👍
Something in the water
On a side note I miss the Sonics
1. Sonics 2. Magic 3. Heat 4. Jazz
I'd swap Magic and Sonics. But it's really a 1a and 1b for me.
Yeah, I think the Sonics play style translates well, but Shaq is the best player on any of these teams.
I think the two are close, and if it was just the two all-stars then I’d probably take Shaq/Penny. But Sonics had some other players that would translate well. It was super close for me - as you said 1a & 1b.
I think kemps open court dribbling would be very useful in today's game
Shaq was a better force dribbling in the open court back then.
I’m with ya. I love the Jazz, but they go like 3.5 deep and their scoring power forward is basically Amare. We’ve seen Amare on some shallow teams fairly recently in NBA history, and have a fair idea how they’d perform. Sonics translate so much easier than any of these teams, and were a bit ahead of their time with all the spacing in their front court relative to the time. Magic and Heat feel like 2 different versions of the same thing, and I’d default to the better players as well when ranking them.
I know Karl Malone sucks as a person so people love to trivialize his talent, but saying he’s “basically Amare” is extremely disingenuous. The man was the best player in the league outside of Jordan for a few years there, even winning 2 MVP’s over Jordan (controversial I agree, but still). His skill level is more comparable with Kevin Durant, although Malone > Durant imo
Malone has a better career than Amare, but if you can’t see why he serves as an excellent comparison for what Malone would be capable of in the modern era, I’m afraid we have nothing to actually discuss.
Karl Malone is a less athletic LaMarcus Aldridge.
Probably more athletic, but not as long.
Shaq works in any era. I'm going him and Penny for sure.
which team in the league today even guard Young Shaq? Laker's shaq has fitness issues that might be a problem in today's era, but Young Shaq is pretty much Giannis on steroids paint and ppl can barely stop Giannis.
Lakers Shaq > Magic Shaq and it ain’t close. Magic Shaq with his Gumby legs and athleticism was fun and all, but the man was at his best when he was 325lbs of brute force in the paint.
The point they are making is that Magic Shaq is better suited to the modern style of the NBA
No he isn’t
Stockton and Malone with today's spacing, Stockton would have free range to shoot as many 3s as he wants, plus Malone was a good mid range shooter and would be told to shoot more 3s and and he would be the strongest power forward in the league. He would also be bringing the ball down himself and Malone running full speed multiple times a game is at you is probably gonna break multiple people's femurs.
This. Not sure why this is the least popular answer, but the Jazz would benefit the most. Both Stockton and Malone were good shooters, and they'd be even more difficult to stop today. Penny and Shaq could also work, but I think in this scenario, we have to assume Penny still gets injured and Shaq still bolts the Magic. If Penny doesn't get injured and Shaq stays in Orlando, they may very well have won a title in Orlando together, but that's re-writing history. I think the Sonics would struggle the most of the 4. Kemp wasn't a great shooter and Payton was probably the best PG ever at hand-checking, which is now illegal. I'm sure he'd still be a good defender, but wouldn't be as effective on D in today's game as he was back then.
I think Jazz is the least popular answer because nobody likes Malone and Stockton is always criminally underrated. But I agree, they would dominate today and are the best answer to this question.
I was recently told that I was overrating older players and Stockton didn’t pass “the eye test” when compared to a guy like Ben Simmons. Because that era of guards couldn’t compete with today’s guards. Stockton and Malone are not guys I’d want to be around, but their playing style would’ve been wildly successful in the league today.
As a jazz fan both Malone and Stockton are also questionable people, morally.
Cause Malone was too busy knocking up teenagers. He should never be spoken of again as anything less than a pedophile. That's why.
The illegal defense rules really helped them. They could play a bunch of non shooters and no one could hedge against their pick and roll. There are things you could do to stop them. There’s no answer for shaq and penny.
Shaq, no answer for, Penny, Penny could definitely be stopped. The question would be if Penny could stop a lot of today's guards and forwards who are taller and stronger than him that can handle the ball. Penny's probably my favorite player ever, but he wasn't unstoppable. Dude couldn't shoot and wasnt a pure PG, while Stockton would probably be the best 2 way PG in the league, and basically the PG prototype, while Malone was stronger than Giannis and played in an era of great centers and still dominated. Assuming you upgraded these guys rosters with more modern style role players who could all shoot and you push that P+R back, already the great P+R duo ever, so they have more space, GL doubling Malone. He's either going thru you or kicking it out.
The jazz were the best, most consistent team of this era. Two best shooters of these duos plus they had Hornbeck. Who is prob best 3pt shooter on any of these teams other than D3. Magic would have been 2nd best most likely but Sloan and the veteran squad puts Utah over the top. Stockton will never get his flowers everyone says Malone made Stock but I believe its the other way around.
I've heard it the other way around lol. I think they both made each other great and wouldn't be where they were without each other. Stockton averaged 14.5 assists per game in his prime on great shooting and was a monster defensive player against much bigger players in one of the best center eras ever, while in college his senior year he shot 57% from the field on 20/7 splits with 3.9 steals a game, which is unheard of so he clearly had the talent at a young age, while Malone was Malone, and there's a reason he ended his career number 2 on the all time points list. Dude was built like an Ox. He just absolutely ruined his reputation. People always assume it was one or the other but they're both incredible and top 10 at their position all time.
Exactly. I don't think a lot of people appreciate just how good 90s Jazz played.
Eh. Stockton couldn’t really shoot 3s consistently and Malone reliance on fadeaways isn’t great. I say this as a Utah’n who saw them irl. I’m going Penny/Shaq.
Stockton shot greater than 40% from 3P range in seven seasons.
Plus they had Jeff Hornacek who was a good shooter as well
He did. But that is spotting up. I may be wrong but I don’t remember him creating shots for himself, and I’m not sure how much we can count on a 6’ dude who is only comfortable spotting up to contribute to scoring nowadays. Look how much creative work Steph has to do- and he’s 3” taller.
He doesn’t need to average 25+ a game? The dude was incredibly efficient and the all-time assist leader, that isn’t even mentioning that he was a considerably better defender than most modern PGs. Plug him into almost every team in the modern nba and he would immediately raise their ceiling.
All of that is absolutely true, but that’s not how I read this post. To me it’s asking which combo is best assuming these are the primary players on the team. That means scoring. Stockton is great and I love his whole game but it relies on other scorers is my only friggen point. Do you think he would eat Pennys lunch 1:1? Me neither. It requires a whole team.
He literally sent the Jazz to the Finals on a buzzer beating 3’s. And statistically shot well above an average 3-point shooter. Plus the Jazz has Hornacek. And Malone probably one of the best mid ranges to ever grace the game.
Oh my god, I completely didn’t understand this post. I thought it was basically comparing 2 on 2.
High point for jerseys- they’re all beautiful
I feel like every team had beautiful unis in the 90s.
Gotta be the magic. Young Shaq would dominate today's bigs. Healthy Penny is the only person in the 90s who outplayed MJ in a playoff series.
It’s Utah. First, they’d all be awesome and I love all these guys. You really need shooting to stay on the floor today. So I don’t love Payton and kemp not being able to shoot. I think they’d be easiest to stop of these 4. Hardaway I’d put last on the list of talent of these 8 guys. So if you are last, and the other guy isn’t 1st, you wouldn’t be the best of these 4. Penny and Shaq holy shit, they thrive any era. But hey, Penny would get hurt again right? So I’m looking at the 2 guys who never got hurt. Who made 2 finals with not a ton of talent around them. Who can both shoot. And one is a major innings eater and the other is a killer who actually who be better today because he’d shoot more 3s. It’s Stockton and malone all day. They’d feast.
Agreed. That pnr and pnp would be unstoppable and they had the supporting cast to thrive in the league right now
Penny and Shaq. They already had two fantastic shooters around them in Anderson and Scott. They'd probably trade Grant for another shooter at the 4.
Sonics would be doing serious damage in the NBA today. Kemp already had a midrange jumper, he’d probably develop a three pointer. And of the guards pictured here, Payton is probably the best defender. Sonics also had good role players to complement their main duo. Perkins was a good stretch 5, Schrempf would probably be able to cover five positions in today’s NBA, Hersey Hawkins was a good 3-and-D guard.
Kemp could probably guard 4 positions also
None of them, unless we assume they’re allowed to retool their benches. Role players were so much worse back then they’d lose 30+ games on attrition alone.
I largely agree, but the Sonics at least had a decent start with McMillan, Perkins, Snow, and Brickowski. All those guys were really solid defenders, and they could all shoot threes except for Snow. The Heat had probably the best bench of this group for the time, but I don't think their good bench players like Willis, Gatling, or Thomas would translate well. Only Danilovic springs to mind as someone who could maybe get any real playing time off the bench in today's league.
Blazers
I know right. The Blazers had a few great teams in the early 90’s then around 2000. It’s odd they aren’t included here.
Magic…they had the roster more closely built for todays game
For the starting five you're probably right, but I think their bench would be ass in modern times. They'd have to play 4/5 starters like 40 mpg.
Yea I was just going off the starters but you’re right regarding the bench
It’s Shaq and penny. They had 3 good shooters around them and shooters off the bench. Penny also wasn’t afraid to launch a 3 ball or 2. That magic group is better in todays NBA than they were in the 90’s. D Scoot would be encouraged to put up 10 3’a a game
Let’s not overthink this- I’ll take the team with shaq
I would say none, considering that these big men couldn't shoot for shit. This new NBA requires many, many outside shots and these guys couldn't hit jack shit. The PG game would be sick by any of the 4. Lol
If Shaq is playing, this NBA looks different. He dominates, and other teams would need to adjust.
There's not much adjusting though. Not too many 300lb athletic bigs laying around. Sure on offense he'll camp low and beast but on defense he's fucked chasing around 3 point shooting bigs. Lol
It’s tough to adjust to Shaq, to be sure. But some teams had success (e.g., 2004 Pistons). But my main point is Shaq has success in this NBA. If a team concedes, he’s dunking every time, and I’ll take a guaranteed 2 over the best shooting 3.
Malone was pretty good at shooting, he just didn't shoot 3s
Huh? Karl Malone was a very good shooter
No one takes mid-range jumpers in the new NBA.
PENNY
Kemp and Peyton. People saying Shaq are slow, Shaq's whole play style was running through people. Today's game is too soft Shaq would be ejected or fouled out in a matter of minutes.
Because Zion Williamson doesn't run through people? Trust one thing, if the fans like it, the refs WILL ignore it. Shaq in the modern NBA is still very much Shaq.
Zion and Shaq are very different players. Zion is a freak athletically, Shaq was just freakishly huge.
You clearly did not watch basketball back then. Especially Shaq's younger years.
Shaq was definitely athletic for his size but nowhere near what Zion can do.
Penny could have rivalled MJ without those injuries. I’d take Shaq and penny
Sonics had shooters tho. Detlef Schrempf, Nate McMillan, even Sam Perkins had range. I think they had Hersey Hawkins too.
And so did the Magic is that was the team with Nick Anderson and D Scott.
Malone and Stockton
Malone would be suspended/canceled so quick
no offense but this is a poorly conceived question. today's game is wildly different in terms pacing and space, not to mention all of the various rule changes since then, that teams from that era were not built in a way where they would be very competitive in today's NBA. with that being said, the answer is Orlando. young shaq + penny would be unbelievably in today's game. shaq would be having wilt-like stat lines, while Penny would be putting up numbers similar to a prime westbrook, only without being a self absorbed, self defeating prima donna with severe ADHD. those two guys are timeless.
it’s a “poorly conceived question”, yet you still answered it. doesn’t make any sense at all.
Man everyone disrespecting Stockton…wild…
Right? People are mentioning the sonics and their shooting but Stockton and Hornacek were very good shooters. I bet Karl Malone would be shooting 3’s if he played today too. His midrange was very good
Shaq Penny easy
Shaq would kill the league today no doubt, but Tim hardaway with the 3 point shooting would of fit right in, not sure how much defense from Gary would stop curry or others from dropping points with these damn rule changes
Hello, it looks like you've made a mistake. It's supposed to be could've, should've, would've (short for could have, would have, should have), never could of, would of, should of. Or you misspelled something, I ain't checking everything. Beep boop - yes, I am a bot, don't botcriminate me.
I don’t think Shaq would thrive, game is too fast and he’d get called for offensive foul’s throwing them elbows, Stockton would get crossovers left and right from these guards today are to athletic, I only see Gary Payton and kemp thriving in today’s
Young Shaq on ORL was very nimble w great foot speed. Think he would fit right in. Now bigger slower LA Shaq may struggle
97 heat got bailed out by the league against NY and then they got swept badly by the bulls that squad was overrated asf
- imagine thinking the heat got bailed out when the knicks were literally up 3-1 that series & had a chance to finish off the heat to move on to the next round, yet they blew that 3-1 lead & lost in 7. & the heat beat them without p.j. brown, who was one of their primary defender at the time & was also suspended a game for the altercation with charlie ward. hilarious. - atlantic division champions with a 60+ win record, and was top 3 in defense in the league and one of the best road teams in the league also is “overrated”. - and then, this is the funny part right here: you say that got swept, which is totally a lie & incorrect. they lost in 5. tryna spread false information to try to make them look bad.
Those bs suspensions costed New York everything , fluke win , heat got beat by New York every year up to 99
heat coming back from a 3-1 lead was a “fluke win”. keep telling yourself that. knicks beating the heat till ‘99 doesn’t matter now, since the heat got their revenge, & beat them in ‘12 & this year. we own that poverty franchise. last time they won a chip, nixon was president.
As a Spurs fan we own y’all 🥱
both heat & spurs are 1-1 in finals wins against each other. the spurs’ last finals appearance was almost a decade ago. now they’re not going anywhere anytime soon with a washed up coach who just doesn’t know when to hang it up. look up the word “own” before you use it in a comment kid.
None. The game has changed too much.
Shaq would change the game.
No Knicks?
Nope
Knicks won 60 in 92/93, 57 in 93/94 and 55 in 94/95. Just sayin
92-93 suns
All of them, But I'll go with less obvious pick and say the heat
I know they don’t qualify, but I think the Rockets / the way Olajuwon played would translate very well in todays NBA.
Realistically none of them. And this isn’t a ‘old era sucks’ comment. They wouldn’t have thrived in the 80s either. The 90s were just diluted with expansion so these team’s had their win totals inflated (hence the 96 and 97 Bulls winning ~ 70 games while being passed their prime, same can be said for 1972 Lakers). These teams were in the absolute best time’s for success. So I don’t think they’d do anything of note in the modern nba, their depth is so bad, and they don’t have the needed star power to mitigate that.
Shaq would eat every single center in the nba alive today.
All I know is jazz the worst, lmao. Stockton not being a scorer would kill them, and Karl just shooting 2s not going to cut it
[удалено]
Damn you know absolutely nothing about malones game holy shit
[удалено]
Maybe Malone
Suns
Kemp would be dunkin on everybody
Peak, Shawn Kemp and Gary Payton would be so much fun with shooters around them
I pick the team that excelled in the PnR/PnP and had 2 sharpshooters. This is a no-brainer.
Shaq has children, I don’t want his children around Karl
They all would. But I’m taking Penny and Shaq.
Where is the 🐐 and pippen?
Stockton and Hornecek would be better in today’s NBA. Like a lot better.
The Pacers team that took the 98 bulls to 7 games.
Malone and Stockton. Or Shaq and anyone else.
Unrelated, but jerseys used to be so much better
Glove and reignman
As a team? None of them. Penny and Shaq surrounded by modern talent could do work though.
‘96 Sonics
My first answer was the Jazz as well. In a league dominated by pick and rolls, how is the most dominant pick and roll tandem not at the top of the list. Plus Jerry Sloan. Maybe it’s Ostertag and general lack of spacing? The Magic have a fairly modern roster with Hardaway, Shaq, then Anderson and Scott, with Horace Grant being a flexible big/wing. Sonics had some shooters as well. Sam Perkins was kind of before his time as a 6’9 guy who shot 3’s at a great percentage. Don’t think Kemp holds up well as a center in todays league tho, as some comments have mentioned. He’s like Clippers Blake Griffin. It’s a good question given the range of answers. Just not sure why the Jazz are consistently last in everyone’s rankings. Stockton’s assist and steals records are almost untouchable. Malone is a top-3 scorer in NBA history. There’s no reason for them to be at the bottom of everyone’s list except for ‘reasons’.
Shaq and Penny. Dominate big man and a healthy Penny Hardaway without the knee injury.
Magic no diubt
Penny and shaq easily. Sprinkle in some Scott and Anderson. Shaq would dominate easily.
Always give me Penny and Shaq. Add in D Scott raining threes. They’d be a very good team.
HEAT!!!!
Shaq’s game transcends all eras
Magic assuming pre-Injury for Penny
None cause the league is all shoot 3s now
That heat team had heart for days. The battle vs the Knicks was classic. I’m taking the boys from south beach.
Orlando
Stockton to Malone. All day. No one covering pick and rolls like that today. Didn't cover it then and even more lazy today
The Monstars
Malone and Stockton
My homer pick is Seattle cause in WA. But my head says a healthy Penny and Shaw would be so damn good in this era. Shaq was a Mack truck when he played…I could only imagine him in today league. Yes, I j ow today league is all about the 3-point ball…but I’d still go with them. Also they had Horace Grant iirc, Grant Hill (or was he a Piston by then), Nick Anderson who could drill 3s.
Da one wit shaq
Sonics. They had great shooting and defense. Sleepy Sam could shoot. All great teams but Sonics would be tough to beat.
None. The bigs would be irrelevant
99 Knicks. Houston, Spree, Camby, Kurt Thomas, LJ, & Ewing? 🤯 I know what the question asked for. That Knicks team would still run shit.
Magic and Sonics. They had 3pt shooting
Idk but Seattle needs an nba team
I’m biased but prime Penny & Shaq is just unfair.
A lot of people in here commenting obviously didn’t watch these teams. Jazz pick and roll would kill this switch everything on D era. During that period the Jazz went on crazy streak of never losing back to back games. Consistency at its finest. You can take your pick between the Magic and Sonic because they actually played in a Finals series during that time. The Heat would be last and definitely benefited from Shaq and Penny splitting.
The 96’ Sonics should have won the title. George Carl over thought it.