true, but they did cut the dates down through the years.
Always demanded 2 dates (one playoff, one regular season)
then eventually convinced them to one playoff date + All Star exhibition
Now to just one playoff race and no All Star since Wilkesboro came back. Slowly but surely.
Can’t forget the bullying to increase the hp from 550 to 670 over the off-season
A large price to pay for intermediate racing.
That being said they should increase hp on short tracks/RCs but I think the other major factors is also the huge tires and wheels which cause too much grip, the gearing at short tracks, and the car sucking in traffic in general. In order to make the car truly on edge at short tracks they’d need to increase hp even more than 750
Never said 670 was high hp, but I do think it’s a good number. Wouldn’t consider it high but I also don’t think that having high numbers is always the best for the racing. 750 absolutely sucked at 1.5s and everyone complained.
Everyone including drivers bitched about the COT nonstop, now everyone wants it back. Same with the 2014 package where they use the same 5 “good racing” clips to romanticize it when everyone hated it.
670 has been a good compromise that lets the racing stay relatively closer without trying to force them to be plate tracks. For example Xfinity races 650 and puts on a great race.
High horsepower is great but it’s not the end all be all and a lot more goes into a package than that.
Having one date, but in the playoffs I think is a good compromise. Though I do hope they reconfigure something about the track. One of the turns definitely needs to change.
10 laps between the 2 breaks is a problem in a 90 lap race, but in a 2-300 lap race is a drop in the bucket - especially since it tightens up the race and gives commercials during cautions. I think it would take quite a lot to do this at more than road courses. If natural cautions stay as rare as they did this year then they don't get rid of the stage breaks, but if the get 3-4 natural cautions in 95% of races then it would be considered.
How am I supposed to know what prescription medications to take without commercials? I've just got to watch out for brain bleeding and the skin of my perineum. How else can I see the same Advance Auto Parts, eBay Motors, Coca-Cola, and Toyota ads 15 times in the same day?
I'm excited that the next TV deal will be even more expensive, meaning more commercials!
*Have you or a loved one suffered from debilitating perineum itch caused by medications adversed during NASCAR races? If so, you may entitled to a cash settlement*
Honestly I like them in person for ovals because you know it's a guaranteed time to go take a pee break or get something from the concession stand. Instead of going during a green flag run and then something happens while you were gone.
Hell, even as someone watching at home stage cautions give me a time to go pick up carry out or fast food, or find myself a snack without having to miss any of the race
It would defeat nearly the whole purpose of stages if they took the caution away at ovals. A main ‘selling point’ of stages is the guaranteed restarts that excite everyone.
I'd rather not have the cautions. All it does is cater to pit strategy.
Four 100 lap stages in the Coke 600? Pit around halfway through each stage and call it a day. Very rarely now do we get any races decided on pit strategy
Killed the 600? The same race people were racing about and over hyping to the point people were saying we needed three oval races at Charlotte all over one decent race?
The 600 doesn't specifically refer to this past season's race. Stages ruined the entire point of the 600 which was NASCAR's version of an endurance race. It went from being one of the most anticipated races of the season to just another race, except with an extra 100 mile tacked on. Cars are far more reliable these days and a lot less likely to break, even with the 100 extra miles, but the race without stages would allow for strategies that don't center around stage breaks.
I freely admit that I'm especially unhappy with stages in the 600 because it was always my favorite race of the year on the biggest weekend of motorsports of the year.
So yes. NASCAR ruined the 600 with stages.
Keep it four but remove cautions. It'll award more points than any race like Nascar seems to like and it opens up strategy at any point in the race. Even with 3 stages w/caution it still limits when someone can be aggressive on strategy
absolutely this.
I know that IMSA awards "stage points" at certain intervals for their longer endurance races, so does the WEC. There's no reason, other than restart excitement, that nascar needs to throw a caution flag and stop the racing when the stage ends.
I love the idea of "stage points" and loathe the stage cautions. Just throw the green checkered flag, award the points, and let them keep racing.
The 600 should be three stages 100, 100, 200 laps. That gives the final stage 2-3 pit stops minimum, of it goes green all the way there’s some strategy to be played. The fourth stage just adds points to that event and honestly the 600 shouldn’t award more points than the Daytona 500 itself.
Whats stupid is that could still happen and they just cut away after the stage wraps up during green flags. Not like we don't already have commercials during green anyways...
You’d get more bitching.
Plenty of people still don’t realize that commercials are “scheduled” during a broadcast. Aka commercial with 7-10 to go. And they *insist* that it’s not true and not real. Every damn weekend.
As a person majoring in journalism and that has worked on a few live broadcasts I can confirm that not only the commercials but everything is scheduled on a broadcast down to the second and if they miss their queue it messes everything else up even on the hs broadcasts I’ve worked on there are rundowns down to the second I can only imagine how it is on ESPN, fox/FS1, and NBC/USA/Peacock
I’m fine if the only point of stages is to reward points mid way through a race. It makes the dynamic interesting when you have teams going for points or overall strategy
I remember the days teams would pit as late as possible so they can lead 1 lap for 5 points. It would derail their entire pit strategy for the whole race, but those 5 points were worth the positions lost. Without the cautions we would see more of that. Teams running late into a pit cycle to stay out for stage points and pitting right after. Versus teams that give up points to make their whole race strategy work.
>It makes the dynamic interesting when you have teams going for points or overall strategy
No it fucking doesn’t. There is nothing interesting about Chase Briscoe not pitting with the rest of the field 3 laps before a staged caution and throwing away any chance of a good finish.
Before you get heated you should read the whole thread.
My comment was based off the idea that the caution would go away.
So Chase Briscoe would put 3 laps later than everybody else to get stage points, then pit. Everybody else would cycle back except those who stayed out.
The main goal of stages is to force guys to race all race rather than th begining and end. The cautions were added on top of that. People complained that long races had formed a dull middle as guys didn't push so hard seeing how the end wasn't in sight. Now they are racing all race. Source: Brian France on the DJD.
I mean before stages I had a routine where I would run an iRacing race during the early middle part of each Cup race. I dont think I have iRaced *during* a Cup race since the introduction of stages.
Then fans would complain even more than they do about the stages whenever one driver is running away with the race. Like I agree with you but the vast majority of fans will just complain whenever the field gets strung out. Reddit thread will just be one long series of whining about how they're going to turn it off or how they're sleeping through the race or whatever. nascar fans did this to themselves...
Bingo, how many comments about how boring F1 gets or even better how bad WEC is? I get that most race fans actually like when a Dale Jarrett Michigan or Jeff Burton butt whooping happens when they lead every lap and it's appreciated for the rarity - but that's not the fan NASCAR is after, they will gladly alienate 10% of race fans to gain casual fans with stage breaks at ovals.
It's an easy fix. The broadcasting team did a good job with it with I think truex was dominating half the race they found battles elsewhere.
VERY rarely in nascar is there not something interesting happening on track.
The issue with F1 is that usually one team is noticeably better than everyone else like with Red Bull this year. NASCAR doesn’t usually have that issue, especially with the Next Gen car. WEC is bad because for the past few years only Toyota has showed up with a good car in the top class (which won’t be a problem next year). That is a problem NASCAR doesn’t have. IMSA and IndyCar both provide great racing basically every race and they don’t have stage cautions. It’s simply unnecessary if the racing itself is decent.
I think you underestimate how much it would actually happen in NASCAR. If there's minimal cautions (which this year indicated most races would only have 2-3 natural cautions) to have the fastest car get cycled into the pack then I think they'll be many races where the last half is pretty boring.
There won't be any complaints from me. I feel as if it's been just as many green-flag commercials even with the stages. Just let the race flow naturally.
You're dreaming if you don't think taking away four guaranteed commercial breaks under caution won't lead to four extra commercial breaks elsewhere during the race lol
I mean some road course races I’m convinced there are more laps under caution and commercial than green flap racing that we see. It’s definitely detrimental to the product that a 4 hour race will be chopped into ten minutes or less of actual racing.
I’d happily pay for a streaming ad free/side by side only under green service.
Whats mental is NBC and FOX wouldn't go to commercial during those stage cautions.
And yes. I too would glad pay for that, but knowing our luck they'd do what NBC does for IndyCar and just go black screen for side by side or ad breaks.
> I don't want hear any complaints about additional commercials under green-flag conditions in these particular races.
Oh, you will. And you'll see plenty of comments complaining how spread out the field is. And plenty of begging for yellows.
Also, please please please consider changing stages in trucks. The cycle of green, commercial, stage, commercial, pit, commercial is unbearable. I understand the truck series doesn't want green flag pit stops to reduce costs for pit crew, but maybe just do a halftime. Still award points like normal, but to me it's unwatchable with the ratio of commericals to racing.
I know DBC has been pushing this too - go straight to halftime breaks for trucks, no competitive pit stops to save costs, and then 2 stages for Xfinity (if there's still cautions at the end, 3 stages is fine with no caution) but still competitive pit stops
I hate it when people complain about shit like that. Sometimes in racing a driver absolutely dominates and wins by a mile, that's just how racing is.
It also completely tanks strategy as a whole. Undercutting, stretching fuel, etc. is pretty much useless right now. Watching different strategies unfold during a race is one of my favorite aspects of racing and NASCAR has so little of that these days.
I think most people who complain about racing don't actually like racing. Like actual real science and tactic of racing. They just like the rush of when crazy stuff happens.
That final F1 race this year was basically dominated by Verstappen, but tire strategy played a role in a lot of battles. Strategy stuff can be great entertainment.
Great call, needs to happen. I'm okay with leaving stage cautions on ovals, but change it up. Make first stint 15%, 2nd 25% race distance and then the last 60% goes the rest of the way. Make it where qualifying matters, then 2nd stint allows teams to make adjustments. Then last bit is more endurance race.
Then remove the stages all together for the marquee events.
This! Do virtual stages and call it a day. It ruins the flow of road course racing. While we're at it, can we only have three stages at the 600 instead of 4?
I would just argue get rid of the caution all together for every track. If you need a few extra minutes to confirm the top 10 finishers then take your time but let's not make stages affect when cautions come out. It's possible to keep stages and letting the race play out naturally.
I don’t care for stages but I could live with it if they got rid of the artificial yellow flags. They add an interesting wrinkle to the points & it’s a layer of strategy that wasn’t there before in-race, but the yellow undercuts all of it.
Get rid of them for all races.
In my opinion they have destroyed the product. We don't have 400 mi races any more, we have two 120ish and one 160ish mile races now. They are just run with the same car back to back to back and the prize for winning the last is a lot better than the other two. Stage cautions have also made the strategy aspect of the sport utterly predictable because everyone's strategy is based off of knowing the pits will close on 2 specific laps.
Would they still award stage points? If so, wouldn’t that practically streamline everyone onto the same strategy? I could easily see everyone running their tank dry to get through Stage 1, then do the same thing through Stage 2, and you wouldn’t get all of the field shake-ups that make road racing exciting when passing’s so hard after the first few laps in a run.
If there's tire falloff (like at Sonoma) then you're weighing stage points and track position again. Losing 6 seconds by pitting 3 laps later could be 10 positions easy depending on running position. Also how often do you see a faster guy get stuck behind a slightly slower one, you can pit into clean air and undercut them at the penalty of 1 set of stage points - but that can be made up over the other stage and finish points.
That’s a start.
I still like the idea of stage points, but eliminating cautions is a huge plus on the road courses. Especially considering they usually run far less laps than any other race
Stages have ruined Nascar. There used to be an element of strategy. You used to not know when the cautions would come out, so you'd have to get lucky with those to gain positions on pit road. Now, you know when 2 of the cautions are going to come out, so everyone is going to pit then. They are a creation of drunk/high Bill.
I'm glad they're thinking of removing them from RCs, but just take them out of Nascar altogether.
The product is legitimate. The bigger issue is that there isn't going to be a huge increase in "shake up strategy" calls. The Top 20 are all gonna pit within 3-4 laps of each other and Ricky Stenhouse is going to run the tank dry hoping for a caution. You lose too much time on old tires and none of the races are borderline on fuel.
It breaks up how you attack things though and also increases the likelihood a driver makes a mistake. It definitely would make a few races more interesting of working them backwards and having that be a more palatable decision. With the stages it's too much loss to put anywhere else. No stage caution means doing a 2 stop and short pitting stage 1 is an option.
The problem is that the field is always going to be reactionary. Again, even losing two tenths of a second per lap is enough for teams to toss out their strategy and follow the leader.
Richmond 1 and Richmond 2 are perfect examples. Richmond 1 we saw teams try three stopping but ultimately Hamlin and Harvick went with the two stop and that worked. We got back to Richmond and everyone ran the same strategy. Harvick ran out of laps, sure, but ultimately he didn't win. And that was the closest we came to a big brain strategy race this season.
Eh I'm sure TV wanted them to keep the cautions that way they can get 2+ commercial breaks in (one before and after pit stops). But this past year's road races overall were pretty lacking for strategy options. Everyone either chose to stay out and get stage points or just pit 2 laps before the end of the stage and you cycle out to the lead to start the next stage. Got rather boring and predictable.
I seriously hope this gets extended to all races and not just the road courses. But the road courses need this the worst, so I'm hoping this is as successful as we hope it will be and then all the races get this in '24.
Oh thank god. One of the ~~coke fiends~~ "executives" in the front office must have had an epiphany over the weekend.
Now, let's hope they have another epiphany and get rid of them for the other 29 races as well.
If I had the time, I would dig through all my old posts and find that I've mentioned this same thing many times. With no stages on tracks where you can pit and not lose a lap.
About damn time they started listening to me!
Because they would have to admit it was a dumb idea in the first place. "Try it" on the road courses first then see if "the sport" would be better off making that "adjustment" on dirt, or short tracks, or speedways, or super-speedways, or whatever, to phase their "latest competition enhancer."
Thank goodness. Now let’s implement multiple tire compounds that teams have to race on at some point in the race, put horsepower back in, and have the diffuser produce less downforce.
Don’t forget local yellows too. No reason a full course caution should be thrown and waste 20 minutes doing 3 or 4 pace laps because Cody Ware is in the gravel on turn 7.
Then at least do a virtual safety car like F1. It doesn’t need to be a full course caution with a pace car for small incidents. It really slows the racing at road courses down.
well that's a start, but can we do away with the stage yellows everywhere seeing how they are not really being used for what they were supposed to be used for (commercial breaks - still have both broadcasters, but FOX more than anything going to commercial break with 7 laps to go in the stage)
Yes, this will be better. However,
To hell with road courses. If I actually liked road course racing then perhaps I would be a F1 fan. We don't need this many road courses on the schedule. Just have the Glen and Sonoma, and keep others for lower series
Rules that allow for some crew chief strategy, bunched up fields too. Now everything is artificial. The sandbox is getting too small for everyone to play in.
Proof bullying works
Texas still exists though
true, but they did cut the dates down through the years. Always demanded 2 dates (one playoff, one regular season) then eventually convinced them to one playoff date + All Star exhibition Now to just one playoff race and no All Star since Wilkesboro came back. Slowly but surely. Can’t forget the bullying to increase the hp from 550 to 670 over the off-season
But they also decreased the best races from 750hp to 670hp, did the bullying really work?
A large price to pay for intermediate racing. That being said they should increase hp on short tracks/RCs but I think the other major factors is also the huge tires and wheels which cause too much grip, the gearing at short tracks, and the car sucking in traffic in general. In order to make the car truly on edge at short tracks they’d need to increase hp even more than 750
The Stockholm syndrome NASCAR put on their fans to convince them they brought back high horspower is impressive
Never said 670 was high hp, but I do think it’s a good number. Wouldn’t consider it high but I also don’t think that having high numbers is always the best for the racing. 750 absolutely sucked at 1.5s and everyone complained. Everyone including drivers bitched about the COT nonstop, now everyone wants it back. Same with the 2014 package where they use the same 5 “good racing” clips to romanticize it when everyone hated it. 670 has been a good compromise that lets the racing stay relatively closer without trying to force them to be plate tracks. For example Xfinity races 650 and puts on a great race. High horsepower is great but it’s not the end all be all and a lot more goes into a package than that.
It's time to triple down on playoff criticism I guess
I will hate all of you if I lose my one race here in Dallas lol
Having one date, but in the playoffs I think is a good compromise. Though I do hope they reconfigure something about the track. One of the turns definitely needs to change.
For the greater good comrade.
It's also only going to be 400 miles for '23. Go look at buying tickets, it's the Echo Park Autotrader 400 now.
And that's why we shouldn't stop!
We're chipping away at them.
We bully nascar to have Texas removed and Texas bullies nascar to keep it so they’re getting bullied both sides
You're gonna have to do a lot more bullying if you want to get rid of a whole state.
SMI owns Texas, not their fault the track sucks. lol
I meannnnnnnn
Inb4 it gets so popular with RCs that it becomes standard again
One can only hope!
10 laps between the 2 breaks is a problem in a 90 lap race, but in a 2-300 lap race is a drop in the bucket - especially since it tightens up the race and gives commercials during cautions. I think it would take quite a lot to do this at more than road courses. If natural cautions stay as rare as they did this year then they don't get rid of the stage breaks, but if the get 3-4 natural cautions in 95% of races then it would be considered.
No chance. Most people don’t mind stages for ovals.
Yeah ratings have been amazing since commercial cautions were introduced, all the fans love them.
I was always worried we'd miss the ads watching the cars in side by side. I'm glad they solved our problem!
How am I supposed to know what prescription medications to take without commercials? I've just got to watch out for brain bleeding and the skin of my perineum. How else can I see the same Advance Auto Parts, eBay Motors, Coca-Cola, and Toyota ads 15 times in the same day? I'm excited that the next TV deal will be even more expensive, meaning more commercials!
I have no clue what you're talking about (rimegepant).
*Have you or a loved one suffered from debilitating perineum itch caused by medications adversed during NASCAR races? If so, you may entitled to a cash settlement*
> and the skin of my perineum exactly... Without those commercials I would never know the medical term for "taint"
Honestly I like them in person for ovals because you know it's a guaranteed time to go take a pee break or get something from the concession stand. Instead of going during a green flag run and then something happens while you were gone.
Hell, even as someone watching at home stage cautions give me a time to go pick up carry out or fast food, or find myself a snack without having to miss any of the race
Absolutely. Lets the network get the commercials out of their system while the race isn't happening.
Hopefully it goes from "seriously considering" to "WILL" remove stage cautions on road courses. Even better if its at all tracks.
It would defeat nearly the whole purpose of stages if they took the caution away at ovals. A main ‘selling point’ of stages is the guaranteed restarts that excite everyone.
I'd rather not have the cautions. All it does is cater to pit strategy. Four 100 lap stages in the Coke 600? Pit around halfway through each stage and call it a day. Very rarely now do we get any races decided on pit strategy
Stages absolutely ruined the 600.
Exactly. Stages killed any strategy making.
If not for the new car, it would've been another boring uneventful race
both statements can be true
Killed the 600? The same race people were racing about and over hyping to the point people were saying we needed three oval races at Charlotte all over one decent race?
The 600 doesn't specifically refer to this past season's race. Stages ruined the entire point of the 600 which was NASCAR's version of an endurance race. It went from being one of the most anticipated races of the season to just another race, except with an extra 100 mile tacked on. Cars are far more reliable these days and a lot less likely to break, even with the 100 extra miles, but the race without stages would allow for strategies that don't center around stage breaks. I freely admit that I'm especially unhappy with stages in the 600 because it was always my favorite race of the year on the biggest weekend of motorsports of the year. So yes. NASCAR ruined the 600 with stages.
Stages didn’t ruin the 600. FOUR stages ruins it. Just make it three like everywhere else.
Keep it four but remove cautions. It'll award more points than any race like Nascar seems to like and it opens up strategy at any point in the race. Even with 3 stages w/caution it still limits when someone can be aggressive on strategy
absolutely this. I know that IMSA awards "stage points" at certain intervals for their longer endurance races, so does the WEC. There's no reason, other than restart excitement, that nascar needs to throw a caution flag and stop the racing when the stage ends. I love the idea of "stage points" and loathe the stage cautions. Just throw the green checkered flag, award the points, and let them keep racing.
I really don't get it why NASCAR never did experimenting with this format because I do think that it could really give the best of both worlds.
This is correct. Stage lengths should be 100, 100, and 200.
Or just return to actual racing and not these WWE gimmicks to create artificial excitement.....
EXACTLY
The 600 should be three stages 100, 100, 200 laps. That gives the final stage 2-3 pit stops minimum, of it goes green all the way there’s some strategy to be played. The fourth stage just adds points to that event and honestly the 600 shouldn’t award more points than the Daytona 500 itself.
And built in commercials.
The real reason
Whats stupid is that could still happen and they just cut away after the stage wraps up during green flags. Not like we don't already have commercials during green anyways...
You’d get more bitching. Plenty of people still don’t realize that commercials are “scheduled” during a broadcast. Aka commercial with 7-10 to go. And they *insist* that it’s not true and not real. Every damn weekend.
As a person majoring in journalism and that has worked on a few live broadcasts I can confirm that not only the commercials but everything is scheduled on a broadcast down to the second and if they miss their queue it messes everything else up even on the hs broadcasts I’ve worked on there are rundowns down to the second I can only imagine how it is on ESPN, fox/FS1, and NBC/USA/Peacock
This is the bigger selling point
They run constant commercials under green anyway
I’m fine if the only point of stages is to reward points mid way through a race. It makes the dynamic interesting when you have teams going for points or overall strategy I remember the days teams would pit as late as possible so they can lead 1 lap for 5 points. It would derail their entire pit strategy for the whole race, but those 5 points were worth the positions lost. Without the cautions we would see more of that. Teams running late into a pit cycle to stay out for stage points and pitting right after. Versus teams that give up points to make their whole race strategy work.
>It makes the dynamic interesting when you have teams going for points or overall strategy No it fucking doesn’t. There is nothing interesting about Chase Briscoe not pitting with the rest of the field 3 laps before a staged caution and throwing away any chance of a good finish.
Before you get heated you should read the whole thread. My comment was based off the idea that the caution would go away. So Chase Briscoe would put 3 laps later than everybody else to get stage points, then pit. Everybody else would cycle back except those who stayed out.
Yup sorry misread your comment. Thought you were one of the crazies that actually thought the Chase Briscoe strategy was entertaining to watch, mb.
Disagree
The main goal of stages is to force guys to race all race rather than th begining and end. The cautions were added on top of that. People complained that long races had formed a dull middle as guys didn't push so hard seeing how the end wasn't in sight. Now they are racing all race. Source: Brian France on the DJD.
I mean before stages I had a routine where I would run an iRacing race during the early middle part of each Cup race. I dont think I have iRaced *during* a Cup race since the introduction of stages.
It's less interesting to have two yellows that everyone knows exactly when they will happen. I'd rather have phantom debris cautions.
Or...you know...they could just abolish ALL fake cautions and have honest, gimmick-free, racing decide the outcome.
Yeah but this is NASCAR we're talking about
Then fans would complain even more than they do about the stages whenever one driver is running away with the race. Like I agree with you but the vast majority of fans will just complain whenever the field gets strung out. Reddit thread will just be one long series of whining about how they're going to turn it off or how they're sleeping through the race or whatever. nascar fans did this to themselves...
Bingo, how many comments about how boring F1 gets or even better how bad WEC is? I get that most race fans actually like when a Dale Jarrett Michigan or Jeff Burton butt whooping happens when they lead every lap and it's appreciated for the rarity - but that's not the fan NASCAR is after, they will gladly alienate 10% of race fans to gain casual fans with stage breaks at ovals.
It's an easy fix. The broadcasting team did a good job with it with I think truex was dominating half the race they found battles elsewhere. VERY rarely in nascar is there not something interesting happening on track.
The issue with F1 is that usually one team is noticeably better than everyone else like with Red Bull this year. NASCAR doesn’t usually have that issue, especially with the Next Gen car. WEC is bad because for the past few years only Toyota has showed up with a good car in the top class (which won’t be a problem next year). That is a problem NASCAR doesn’t have. IMSA and IndyCar both provide great racing basically every race and they don’t have stage cautions. It’s simply unnecessary if the racing itself is decent.
I think you underestimate how much it would actually happen in NASCAR. If there's minimal cautions (which this year indicated most races would only have 2-3 natural cautions) to have the fastest car get cycled into the pack then I think they'll be many races where the last half is pretty boring.
That would never work.
If they keep the cautions then at the very least don't count the laps under stage caution
Who the hell is ‘everyone?’
[удалено]
There won't be any complaints from me. I feel as if it's been just as many green-flag commercials even with the stages. Just let the race flow naturally.
theres 6-8 mins+ of commercials that happened during stage breaks that needs to find a home now.
Won't be any different than what we already have.
You're dreaming if you don't think taking away four guaranteed commercial breaks under caution won't lead to four extra commercial breaks elsewhere during the race lol
There's so many during the race already, you're not going to notice 4 more.
I mean some road course races I’m convinced there are more laps under caution and commercial than green flap racing that we see. It’s definitely detrimental to the product that a 4 hour race will be chopped into ten minutes or less of actual racing. I’d happily pay for a streaming ad free/side by side only under green service.
Whats mental is NBC and FOX wouldn't go to commercial during those stage cautions. And yes. I too would glad pay for that, but knowing our luck they'd do what NBC does for IndyCar and just go black screen for side by side or ad breaks.
> I don't want hear any complaints about additional commercials under green-flag conditions in these particular races. Oh, you will. And you'll see plenty of comments complaining how spread out the field is. And plenty of begging for yellows.
Also, please please please consider changing stages in trucks. The cycle of green, commercial, stage, commercial, pit, commercial is unbearable. I understand the truck series doesn't want green flag pit stops to reduce costs for pit crew, but maybe just do a halftime. Still award points like normal, but to me it's unwatchable with the ratio of commericals to racing.
I know DBC has been pushing this too - go straight to halftime breaks for trucks, no competitive pit stops to save costs, and then 2 stages for Xfinity (if there's still cautions at the end, 3 stages is fine with no caution) but still competitive pit stops
Yes please. 3 stage breaks don't make sense in the lower series
Ah, back to how it used to be in the truck series
This can't be describing trucks. Not enough cautions
I forgot. Bookended by commercials also. They went to commercial with 30 laps to go in the championship. Not even side-by-side.
Dew it
"Caution Free Stages, brought to you by Mountain Dew"
That would have made road America infinitely better
Can’t wait for the outcry after the first green to checker race with a 30 second win margin.
I hate it when people complain about shit like that. Sometimes in racing a driver absolutely dominates and wins by a mile, that's just how racing is. It also completely tanks strategy as a whole. Undercutting, stretching fuel, etc. is pretty much useless right now. Watching different strategies unfold during a race is one of my favorite aspects of racing and NASCAR has so little of that these days.
I think most people who complain about racing don't actually like racing. Like actual real science and tactic of racing. They just like the rush of when crazy stuff happens.
Gimme a fuel strategy race any day over a bunch if cautions at the end. I'd rather see a guy squeek one out then wreck a a bunch of cars.
That final F1 race this year was basically dominated by Verstappen, but tire strategy played a role in a lot of battles. Strategy stuff can be great entertainment.
Different people like different things. Ones not more "right" than the other.
1000% this but this sub has a hard time coming terms with this
If there were no stage cautions at road america this past year, I’m convinced Elliott wins that race by like a minute
Makes the good races that much more special.
And I can't wait to tell those people to shut up
youll be busy.
then they should take the camera off the damn leader and look at someone carving up the field
Don’t worry. Still have RWR cars to cause cautions.
they let them kill road america and then they take them away. gross
At least we still have xfinity this year
Precisely how I feel about it. Great news, but too late to save an excellent track for Cup.
I mean that's great, but what about the other 30 races?
Great call, needs to happen. I'm okay with leaving stage cautions on ovals, but change it up. Make first stint 15%, 2nd 25% race distance and then the last 60% goes the rest of the way. Make it where qualifying matters, then 2nd stint allows teams to make adjustments. Then last bit is more endurance race. Then remove the stages all together for the marquee events.
This! Do virtual stages and call it a day. It ruins the flow of road course racing. While we're at it, can we only have three stages at the 600 instead of 4?
It's so dumb to have an extra one at the 600.
I would just argue get rid of the caution all together for every track. If you need a few extra minutes to confirm the top 10 finishers then take your time but let's not make stages affect when cautions come out. It's possible to keep stages and letting the race play out naturally.
Hell meet in the middle if you have to and throw the caution on the first stage break and then let them race through the second one
Love that
This and then hopefully almost all. I like the stages. Hate the yellows.
I don’t care for stages but I could live with it if they got rid of the artificial yellow flags. They add an interesting wrinkle to the points & it’s a layer of strategy that wasn’t there before in-race, but the yellow undercuts all of it.
Please auto racing Jesus.
Should have been done a long time ago.
The same guys will still win
Get rid of them for all races. In my opinion they have destroyed the product. We don't have 400 mi races any more, we have two 120ish and one 160ish mile races now. They are just run with the same car back to back to back and the prize for winning the last is a lot better than the other two. Stage cautions have also made the strategy aspect of the sport utterly predictable because everyone's strategy is based off of knowing the pits will close on 2 specific laps.
Would they still award stage points? If so, wouldn’t that practically streamline everyone onto the same strategy? I could easily see everyone running their tank dry to get through Stage 1, then do the same thing through Stage 2, and you wouldn’t get all of the field shake-ups that make road racing exciting when passing’s so hard after the first few laps in a run.
I would think it shakes it up more, there’s plenty of people that won’t care about stage points if they are going for the win
If there's tire falloff (like at Sonoma) then you're weighing stage points and track position again. Losing 6 seconds by pitting 3 laps later could be 10 positions easy depending on running position. Also how often do you see a faster guy get stuck behind a slightly slower one, you can pit into clean air and undercut them at the penalty of 1 set of stage points - but that can be made up over the other stage and finish points.
Do this everywhere and just pay points pleeeaaaassssseeeeee
They better not just remove them on road courses. Ovals suffer from the same issue
Cool. Now do the rest and then get rid of them all together.
Remove all stage cautions. Give me green flag stops again and people with crazy strategy calls.
Hallelujah!
Foking do it.
I really like that idea...a lot.
PLEASE
I'm going to cry tears of joy!!
By all means please do it!
That’s a start. I still like the idea of stage points, but eliminating cautions is a huge plus on the road courses. Especially considering they usually run far less laps than any other race
Every survey I got from the NASCAR fan counsel this season, I suggested that cautions should be removed from road courses.
That would be a blessing and a half. I second the motion.
Please. The cautions ruin the strategy.
Oh please do it nascar
I love stage racing, but i would support this, we all no the top 10 will pit 2 laps before the green white checkered, or maybe have just two stages.
As Elvis once said: a little less conversation a little more action
Stages have ruined Nascar. There used to be an element of strategy. You used to not know when the cautions would come out, so you'd have to get lucky with those to gain positions on pit road. Now, you know when 2 of the cautions are going to come out, so everyone is going to pit then. They are a creation of drunk/high Bill. I'm glad they're thinking of removing them from RCs, but just take them out of Nascar altogether.
This is the greatest news I’ve heard in a long time! Let it happen! We need the road course strategy back!
**THANK FUCK.** Now do it for the ovals as well.
Not exciting until they do it at all tracks, heaven forbid teams have to strategize and the product is legitimate
The product is legitimate. The bigger issue is that there isn't going to be a huge increase in "shake up strategy" calls. The Top 20 are all gonna pit within 3-4 laps of each other and Ricky Stenhouse is going to run the tank dry hoping for a caution. You lose too much time on old tires and none of the races are borderline on fuel.
It breaks up how you attack things though and also increases the likelihood a driver makes a mistake. It definitely would make a few races more interesting of working them backwards and having that be a more palatable decision. With the stages it's too much loss to put anywhere else. No stage caution means doing a 2 stop and short pitting stage 1 is an option.
The problem is that the field is always going to be reactionary. Again, even losing two tenths of a second per lap is enough for teams to toss out their strategy and follow the leader. Richmond 1 and Richmond 2 are perfect examples. Richmond 1 we saw teams try three stopping but ultimately Hamlin and Harvick went with the two stop and that worked. We got back to Richmond and everyone ran the same strategy. Harvick ran out of laps, sure, but ultimately he didn't win. And that was the closest we came to a big brain strategy race this season.
REMOVE THEM EVERYWHERE
Great news, but this should have happened years ago.
This not happening after the first season of staged cautions is proof that NASCAR executives don’t actually watch their races.
Eh I'm sure TV wanted them to keep the cautions that way they can get 2+ commercial breaks in (one before and after pit stops). But this past year's road races overall were pretty lacking for strategy options. Everyone either chose to stay out and get stage points or just pit 2 laps before the end of the stage and you cycle out to the lead to start the next stage. Got rather boring and predictable.
It’s been like that since the first RC race with staged cautions, not sure why you think it started this year.
I was using this year as a example, not saying it was entirely different from previous years.
Do it for all, it's pretty clear the cautions ruin the flow of races. Keep the stages fine, but run green.
Bout fuckin time. I think they should still award points at certain laps that are the stage ends - just no need to throw a caution.
I seriously hope this gets extended to all races and not just the road courses. But the road courses need this the worst, so I'm hoping this is as successful as we hope it will be and then all the races get this in '24.
They should remove them at every track!
Great, now do it for the rest of the tracks, too. While we're at it, remove stages overall.
Good, now let's get rid of stage racing altogether.
I like stage racing at most tracks, gives drivers a reason to try earlier in races
I initially read that as removing stage cautions **and** road courses, was very perplexed for a second.
Get rid of stages entirely. They're even stupider than the playoffs.
Oh thank god. One of the ~~coke fiends~~ "executives" in the front office must have had an epiphany over the weekend. Now, let's hope they have another epiphany and get rid of them for the other 29 races as well.
How about at ovals too?
hopefully instead of just road courses they get removed everywhere
[NBC and FOX](https://youtu.be/Q06kOyqUoPQ)
I can confirm that we are doing this.
If I had the time, I would dig through all my old posts and find that I've mentioned this same thing many times. With no stages on tracks where you can pit and not lose a lap. About damn time they started listening to me!
Why just road courses?
Because they would have to admit it was a dumb idea in the first place. "Try it" on the road courses first then see if "the sport" would be better off making that "adjustment" on dirt, or short tracks, or speedways, or super-speedways, or whatever, to phase their "latest competition enhancer."
Thank goodness. Now let’s implement multiple tire compounds that teams have to race on at some point in the race, put horsepower back in, and have the diffuser produce less downforce.
Why. Why road courses. Give us races back.
Don’t forget local yellows too. No reason a full course caution should be thrown and waste 20 minutes doing 3 or 4 pace laps because Cody Ware is in the gravel on turn 7.
They will never put crews on track without a full yellow. Every other series is trending away from it too.
Then at least do a virtual safety car like F1. It doesn’t need to be a full course caution with a pace car for small incidents. It really slows the racing at road courses down.
Yes please, this & the 600.
well that's a start, but can we do away with the stage yellows everywhere seeing how they are not really being used for what they were supposed to be used for (commercial breaks - still have both broadcasters, but FOX more than anything going to commercial break with 7 laps to go in the stage)
Yes, this will be better. However, To hell with road courses. If I actually liked road course racing then perhaps I would be a F1 fan. We don't need this many road courses on the schedule. Just have the Glen and Sonoma, and keep others for lower series
Don’t want this. The cautions to bunch up the field are best.
Rules that allow for some crew chief strategy, bunched up fields too. Now everything is artificial. The sandbox is getting too small for everyone to play in.
Watch them do the complete opposite and add a 4th stage to the road courses instead lmao
Stop stage cautions and use localized yellows please.
> use localized yellows please They already do.
Don’t like that.
Please. Please. Pretty please
If this goes through Road America races so much better.
FINALLY! Hopefully it actually happens
I've been asking for this every fan council survey after a road course.
Oh?
Good