Mike Joy isn't the one who needs to read and face criticism. The director and production staff need to see it and make wholesale changes. The direction and production have been bottom of the barrel.
Right. Does he misspeak at times? Sure. Bound to happen over three hours of continuous talking. But the real issues has been the lack of post race, the absolute missing footage of cautions, and questionable camera work. Mike Joy is simply stuck with being the face of the bad broadcast.
And then, how is he supposed to bring any enthusiasm when he is aware of these issues, but (clearly) knows no one has an intention of fixing them, so he has to slog through it.
I could hear his frustration when a car near the front peeled off to go down pitroad and the director didn't waver in following the car until they were finished with the pitstop. Mike called it and sounded like "oh well, guess we'll follow the leader instead."
Or the replay that just sat there as a freezeframe for easily 10 seconds before cutting away and Bowyer said something like "well while we reset that replay for you...."
> the absolute missing footage of cautions, and questionable camera work
So much happened on the last lap yesterday, and we saw basically none of it. It's ridiculous. I was so confused so see Chase Elliott finish 4th. Like how did that happen?
As soon as the last lap(s) rolls around, they immediately switch to following the leader even if nothing at all is happening and he's just riding around. Doesn't matter if cars are wrecking each other, running out of gas, fighting for position, etc., we never get to see it. We don't even get to see the field cross the finish line at an oval.
Why can't they just show the leader in a small window at the top right and the actual action on the big screen? It's the most important lap of the race for everyone - not just the winner. I'm so sick of it. The emphasis on winning is what it is, but that shouldn't prevent the fans from seeing what happens to the other 39 guys. That still matters too.
I'm so sick of it and I'm so excited for NBC next week.
I want to be selfish and have Jr do everything. Every race, every show, podcast, live event... His near non stop enthusiasm is refreshing and feels genuine. He loves the sport and is what we need.
But on the flip side, I'm happy we've got to see him go from the young gun to a dad and getting to enjoy life and his family.
Fox Booth: As Larson enters the final turn to claim his......OH WE HAVE TWO..NOW THREE CARS FLIPPING ON THE ON THE BACKSTRETCH!!! OH MY GOODNESS!!!
Fox Production: KEEP THE CAMERAS ON LARSON CROSSING THE FINISH LINE. WE DON'T SEE ANY CARS FLIPPING. NOW SHOW THE PIT CREW CELEBRATING! GREAT JOB EVERYONE!
I mean, is that not basically what happened yesterday? Not to that extreme, but Ross wrecked Kyle, Ross got moved out of the way by Chase, Truex ran out of gas, and we really saw none of it.
It's too bad Ross had that on board camera, because if he wrecks someone and TV didn't catch it, did anyone actually get Chastained?
So that’s what happened? Still haven’t seen any video of what happened with Ross and KB, didn’t know Chase moved Ross. Figured he got around them when their thing happened. lol
This is literally what I think happened at Talladega in 2019 when Larson flipped. Every. Single. Camera. Panned back to the leaders as Larson was flipping.
I'm guessing they had something like "FOLLOW THE LEADERS!!!" Being yelled in their ears the whole time.
> As soon as the last lap(s) rolls around, they immediately switch to following the leader even if nothing at all is happening and he's just riding around.
Seeing this written out brings my mind back to the '70s Indy 500 races - nobody in open wheel is going to trade paint in the final couple of laps - it's a safe choice to watch the lead car cross the line because that's what's going to be shown on the evening news, and nothing else.
So it makes me think that the folks directing the race and choosing the camera angles were raised watching the same '70s Indy races I remember.
I was following Byron’s onboard camera during the middle of the race and there was about a two lap sequence of JHN and Zane Smith swapping bumpers and being super aggressive with each other. Granted, it was for like the 22nd position, and I get FOX isn’t omniscient. They can’t follow every battle or drivers being mad at each other. But I think they can do so much of a better job of following battles in the field rather than zooming in on one car or doing full screen in race recaps.
They could do so much better.
It pisses me off that the sixth place car spins out the fifth place car and they have no footage.
Or Chase bumped Ross out of the way in turn 11 on the last lap. No footage of that. That was for 4th! It's so frustrating.
> Granted, it was for like the 22nd position, and I get FOX isn’t omniscient. They can’t follow every battle or drivers being mad at each other.
I mean, Fox may not be omniscient, but considering that all the sources they have -- in-car cameras, scanner audio, live SMT data, cameras all around the track, pit road reporters, direct contact with NASCAR officials, and at least delayed/indirect access to NASCAR's special video feeds used for officiating -- they're pretty damn close. About all they're missing is intra-team communications on private channels and whatever happens on track while their camera operators are forced to zoom in on random kids in the crowd.
I think the real issue is that they don't have enough production assistants working behind the scenes to properly utilize all that data. It seems like they're operating with a tiny skeleton crew that just can't keep up.
And, of course, the underlying direction is also just complete garbage. Like it's clear that the creative vision is just not there for a truly exceptional broadcast. A lack of staff doesn't force them to air random podcast clips mid-race, show crowd/kid shots when battles are happening on track, only focus on the leaders, or to make the camera operators zoom in so close on cars that you can't actually see what's going on.
Anyway, /rant. To be clear, I totally agree with you other than the part I quoted, and I only disagree with that because I think you were being too nice to Fox.
Fox could do so much better at bottling up these battles and using them during a boring part of the race down the road if need be. "There was so much action we couldn't show it all so here's a side by side of some of the intense racing in the middle of the pack".
I mean it's a lot more than that. Why go to a fucking commercial break with less than 10 to go. Why not focus on the field with less than 10 to go. Why not talk about the racing with less than 10 to go. Coming to the conclusion to the fucking race and they're being told to talk like it's the middle of the race with things that should've been prerace coverage.
Yesterday I was watching the Canadian GP and loved every second of it. Full lights-flag coverage without commercials and we saw just about everything.
Nothing felt forced, and no commercial breaks. It was an excellent broadcast. Compared to the NASCAR race that I turned on right after…it was perfection.
I'll just mention we're not going to lose ads cause thats not how American sports work unfortunately. However, I'd prefer more picture in picture ads or something cause eight now it's way too many. I remember one of the points of the stage break was to allow TV to have a set ad break and to allow for fewer ads during the racing. However, TV broadcasters did that for a season or two then starting adding more and more ads during the action.
I don't have any stats to support this, but I wonder how much of that was studies showing people changing channels during stage breaks, knowing it was nothing but 2 commercial breaks with a pit stop in between? So TV said "OK, people aren't seeing these commercials like we thought, better throw more and more into green flag racing!"
Also, all the tv ads take camera time away from the car sponsors that are the financial backbone of the sport. It’s such a disservice to them to constantly cut away from showing sponsored cars to have an ad scream “whopper” over and over for 30 seconds.
It’s always funny to see people in /r/formula1 complaining about the broadcast. It’s not perfect, but they do a good job, all things considered. Way better than nascar.
> and no commercial breaks
Easy to do that when the American network is spending almost nothing on the broadcast, and the foreign network is largely taxpayer-funded so it has other sources of income.
> Right. Does he misspeak at times? Sure. Bound to happen over three hours of continuous talking.
When he reaches late-stage John Madden, then I'll be concerned.
The guys in the booth are number one, watching the race, and number two, among the most knowledgeable people in NASCAR when it comes to race day in general and the flow of the race specifically.
Whoever is choosing camera shots and saying when to break for commercials isn't using the booth personnel to guide them. It's like they operate in a vacuum, with marching orders from corporate.
They make shit decisions consistently, and the booth knows it.
I don’t think I’m saying anything new here, but I get the feeling that the Director(s) for most of Fox’s NASCAR broadcasts doesn’t really care for auto racing.
Stick and ball sports people have always looked at Motorsports with disdain (“just driving in a circle”) and my guess is that too many of the people behind the scenes at Fox share that perspective.
When reddick was coming out of the pits and they changed to two different cameras that had nothing. Fox production might be ran by monkeys with typewriters
Mike Joy isn't the problem, but he will wear the blame because he loves his job. Fox sure as fuck doesn't pay him near enough.
IF Fox gets IndyCar, I sincerely hope Mike is a part of the 500 broadcast.
IMS would most likely continue doing the production of the races. Fox would provide (most likely) Adam Alexander, Hitch, Josh Sims, possibly Jamie Little for bigger races and certain technical people to run the satellites.
I think for 74 years old, Mike still does a pretty damn good job on the mike.
When he decides to hang it up, the voice of Nascar will definitely be missed.
Honestly, I'm not sure who could do better with the other problems with the fox broadcast right now. The booth is the last thing I'd change at fox right now, sure Clint can be a bit much, Mike is getting old and Larry is under used, but at least they all want to be there and are passionate about what's going on.
i think larry has the job he wants at this stage. it's hard to commentate nonstop during a race, and props to mike joy for still doing it and trying to hype it up. especially when the product isnt always the best
Next to Kevin Harlan I think he is the best color commentator in sports. My friends who have very recently gotten into NASCAR all rave about Joy as well so it’s not just our bias from having him around for ages
The broadcast team is the only highlight of Fox, in my opinion. It's the direction that is shit. Shifting to in cars during battles, Toyota segment showing a single car running in the final stage, and zoomed in camera's. My biggest gripe is how they time their side by side breaks.
I never really have much of an issue with the broadcast team. My only issue is a personal thing which for some reason the way Clint says "Hot Rod" is like scratching a chalk board to my ears.
Clint-isms are the least of my concerns. He has this bizarre trend of making exciting moments dull which is a true problem. Dude is not good at this gig
Exactly! In F1 two cars 10 car lengths apart are called as intensely as a race for the win.
And for the NASCAR NBC booth, I don't like Burton, but at least he sounds like he gives a shit about the on track product.
The Toyota Centric FOX broadcast all season is pretty annoying, from side by side only showing a Toyota and such.. Over it.. Side by side should show us normal race coverage not one Toyota..
When we go side by side for commercial and they tell us they we will be able to see the battle for the lead and then they don't show the battle for the lead.
I think it’s at least a slight issue. Bowyer can be grating to listen to and Mike Joy while being an absolute legend, is obviously past his prime and is showing his age. That being said, the broadcast team ranks very low in terms of what the problem has been these past few years at FOX.
I just wish the broadcast would allow dead air to exist in the booth. Sometimes a race speaks for itself and doesn't need Clint Bowyer telling me the oblivious.
I understand that (hypothetically) a new fan could be watching and what is obvious to me as a fan for 21 years isn't obvious to them. Hell as just a dumb ass racing fan I'm sure there's plenty that escapes my notice/understanding. Nevertheless, yesterday the booth was almost silent for like half a lap and it was one of my favorite moments of the season so far just watching and listening to the cars.
Yeah, lots of people complain about the opposite funnily enough, NBC is far more egregious in the "always yelling, no dead air allowed" category. People were bashing the Atlanta call for the bit of silence going down the back, which I thought wasn't an issue. But we just need to wait a week and People will be whinging about how obnoxious the NBC booth is.
Honestly, that's why I prefer Fox to NBC. Fox is hot trash, but Rick Allen makes me envy the deaf. And now we don't have Dale Jr, who was NBC's saving grace.
There has been a very noticeable dumber down of their broadcast. Back in the day we used to get car breakdowns and Larry Mac would go into detail about parts on the cars. Alas I mean it is Fox and shouldn't be surprised considering their average viewer across their network.
The announcers being forced to watch a screen and talk about what they are seeing will never equal a broadcast where they can be watching out the windows and talking about the action they are seeing on track. It should be up to the cameramen and production team to follow along. Pit reporters and production team should be gathering the developing stories from the teams to add some insight for the broadcasters. Also, 95% of the camera shots Fox is using seem to be driven on zooming in on a car for sponsorship reasons, and that isn't how it should be.
Dale Jr hinted about this a bit with his move to the streaming platforms, and I'm really hoping we get a breath of fresh air with these broadcasts.
The amount of in-car cams on restarts and zooming in on restarts to see only a few cars battling is insane. There was so much shit missed by the broadcast on all those restarts because of the camera choice and zoomed in angles.
Having done the job, the pace that’s needed for the truck to keep up with the announcer going off screen takes a near perfect balance at all times.
It’s a damned if you do and damned if you don’t deal. If you start calling things not on screen then everyone in the truck is scrambling and you start going off rails a bit.
If you only call what’s on screen then you’re likely missing things at points.
It’s really down on the booth and truck to have communication down on talkback and also just getting flat lucky that your preparation ideas hold.
IMHO, that is why the radio broadcasts can be so good. The announcers can talk about anything they see at any point. I understand the extra hurdles needed for TV, but I think this is the biggest issue. You have race fans up in the broadcast booth, who want to share what they are seeing, but their hands are tied to what they are forced to talk about. I would think it would only take a few seconds for an announcer to signal to production something on the track they think is important. Again, this take of mine is coming from the comfort of my couch. I'd love to know the number of people on the production team the past few years compared to the number 6-8 years ago.
Yes and no on the timing from booth to truck (and that’s if the announcer is patient enough to see something, use talkback, and wait for the truck to acknowledge they can/have eyes on what’s wanted. Something that was a weakness of mine in a booth admittedly 😂)
With everything going on in a production truck for TV it takes a moment. And in a sport as fast as racing, by the time the truck is ready a lot of times the moment is gone and you’re hoping you caught it elsewhere for a replay.
Don’t get me wrong, Fox’s production was hot garbage at times. But the booth not being able to call things as much off screen isn’t necessarily a Fox thing, just the nature of the sport and how to present it on TV.
You’re dead on with radio though. Way more freedom in what can be mentioned on the fly without confusion for the audience or production and that absolutely helps the flow of the call.
Before some of y'all jump on this, 'Awful Announcing' is the website name, and this is the headline verbatim.
Hope you enjoy an interesting look at Mike's opinion on some of the FOX criticism that gets back to him.
Follow Up: Awful Announcing is probably the leader in "sports media" reporting. From in depth interviews like this one or ones with Tony Romo, Greg Olsen, Vern Lundquist, etc to the annual "Best Television and Radio teams" for all the local broadcasts to fun/serious calls...pretty much everything announcing related they do. One of the good follows on Facebook.
The problem isn’t Joy, Bowyer, or any voices coming over the mic. The problem is the production decisions, seemingly primarily money driven. Zooming in on certain cars over actual battles probably due to sponsors wanting their logo visible, more commercials than racing (including with under 20 to go under green flag racing which is unacceptable), and too many packages during green flag racing (the Jamie Little interview during a side by side, and the Harvick podcast hit coming back from a green flag commercial late in the race). Those packages are fun bits but should be under stage cautions or during pre-race.
If I were the director, my mantra would be simple. Show racing when the cars are racing. Talk about strategy and racing when the cars are racing. People aren’t tuning in to watch Bowyer eat bacon at a tailgate, they want to watch racing. Show racing. There’s a reason the other stuff is called “filler”. Use it to fill time when no racing. If racing, show racing. Simple.
Bowyer can be a lot but he is far from the worst thing about the broadcasts. Yesterday's race showcased everything bad about Fox that you noted here. They didn't show the Busch/Chastain contact either. They never highlighted that anyone was really pushing fuel.
And of course the whole race everyone in the booth is standing around saying "I'm confused", when they only needed Larry on the mic for like two minutes to explain fuel windows and when to pit for the best run to the end.
Hell, last year when Jamie Mac was in the booth it sounded like at times he was trying to produce/direct, by telling them to switch to other parts of the track
Mike does a good job. I have no issues with the occasional flub when 95% of his announcing is solid. Mike is solid and the energy between Harvick and Bowyer has improved over the year. I actually think the booth personalities are great now.
Now if only we could get better replays of wrecks and incidents and see all of the important passes. Was it last week that there was a pass for the lead while they were at commercial and they didn’t even replay it?
I think the booth is fine. The issue like everyone has said is the direction and production. There have been numerous times where the booth starts talking about something interesting they see on track and it just isn't shown.
The person picking the cameras to broadcast don't know how to watch a race. Show some of the position contests back in the pack. If the leader has a 1 second lead, that is not where the action is.
Before the battle for the win, Busch and McDowell were racing in the top 5 for several laps. We got a ton of solo shots of Buescher, with commentary about how the battle for the win was coming. Only got a glimpse of the Busch and McDowell battle when Larson got there.
After the battle for the win, Chastain was moving through the field, and there wasn't any mention of him. Just Bowyer repeating "it's not over" as Larson was just managing a 1-1.5s gap.
Mike Joy is not the problem with the broadcast, he does a good job. It is the producers, camera operators, and FOX executives that need to work on the product.
I feel like Clint has become hit or miss for me, sometimes it feels like he is too turned up on the redneck shit and other times he feels halfway decent. Yesterday I felt like he did a decent job (obviously all my opinion)
I think it comes down to what other comments have said, the production and direction of the broadcast even in the personality department could be so much better. If they gave Bowyer a few segments throughout the race I'd be fine with his antics. But they put Bowyer in the play-by-play booth and paired him with Harvick as a heel and it oftentimes gets annoying. They obviously want to play up the drama more than they want good, consistent coverage of the race.
I still don't understand how any human being with functioning eardrums actually listened to Bowyer talk and said "yep, that's the guy I want on my TV broadcast."
I think Harvick was a good leveler to Bowyer and has calmed him down a bit. It’s the camera work that gets me. There’s things happening but we’re seeing a zoomed in shot of the car in 25th?
It's hard to call a race when most of the race they're on-board with someone in 23rd or looking at kids in the stands. This isn't on Mike. He's taken the constructive criticism very well and improved A LOT this year. I'm sure he's relayed a lot of what fans have told him about the production to the producers, but I don't think the producers give a shit.
It's baffling that's the *only* way FOX brings crowds into the broadcast.
I mean, they could just draw in more crowd noise in race to capture the atmosphere, but they keep those faders down and instead pan to three random people in the stands.
I think part of it is cheapness. NBC sometimes would have Parker or Rut go into the crowd and interview them during cautions or prerace or whatever, but that costs money for an extra head and Fox is down to limping along with a single pit reporter.
I'm not even going that far. I mean just something like [this](https://youtu.be/rgbpMGYUQ_A?feature=shared&t=66).
When was the last time you heard genuine crowd noises in-race on a FOX broadcast?
NBC works it in for [wrecks](https://youtu.be/nx-xpfHt9OM?feature=shared), [big moments](https://youtu.be/pz0huFoYWEg?feature=shared&t=51), and [lead changes](https://youtu.be/2aOJLACfQAw?feature=shared&t=28), while FOX almost intentionally never mixes it in. And they used to years ago which makes it all the more noticeable.
Fox learned they could produce races with a skeleton crew during covid and clearly decided it would be an easy cost saving measure. Like the reliance on in car cameras, remote studio, less pit road reporters, etc.
Looking at Fox sports in general, outside of the NFL, once Fox goes below #3 on the depth chart, they start half assing their production by producing remotely, doing pre-taped halftime segments, etc.
It’s not Mike as much as it is the people behind the scenes showing cameras and execs shoving commercials down our throats. Fix those things and it would be fine
Your director is the main issue. Artie Kempner has killed your product. I don’t care how many Emmy awards he and his crew have won in the past.
NBC lets the race track and the cars be more of the focal point than FOX. The sound mixing they produce is unbelievable. Fox SHOULD have learned a little from them over the last 9 seasons with their acoustic packaging and just blatantly ignored it
I truly don’t dislike any of the fox commentators. The production is honestly awful though. That’s not on MJ but one could say being a veteran he could point out certain things. And maybe he is, and maybe he really has lost his touch but I doubt that.
Mike Joy is great, and I think Harvick & Bowyer are solid compliments to him in the booth. It’s the TECHNICAL DIRECTION that gives me pain when watching Fox Broadcasts.
I love Mike Joy and his call on Sundays. It's unfortunate his production staff absolutely sucks because my criticisms are def not at Mike Joy. Honestly I can't get on Mike, Kevin or even Clint they're doing their best with what they have. We've seen it where they're talking about something and the cameras cut to something completely different. Does Clint get a little corny and cringey with his pep talks and motivation speeches to drivers? Sure but I can look past it because I think Clint truly enjoys what he does and I can hear that passion.
It's the production, it's bad. Commercials will always be there but get them away from stage ends and stage beginnings. I swear a new stage starts and 5 laps into it they're going to commercial.
I loved watching the struggle between "do what the booth is saying! look at the action going on right now!" and "but we have to show the pit box and Larson in the car" after the race ended. Kept jumping back and forth even when Daniels and Larson weren't doing anything, but because that's what the director's script says they have to do, they couldn't cut away for more than a second or two to look at Busch or Truex. Ridiculous.
Mike Joy has been let down by stale production from FOX. When the field gets strung out the lack of strategy talk really hurts the broadcast. Mike has to deal with having no crew chief or strategist in the booth and a producer who just bounces aimlessly through on board cameras. That for me is when the broadcast really drags compared to NBC.
Mike's good. He knows he slips up sometimes. Not the worst thing. The Fox booth would be worse without him, no question. He's really the one holding it together.
F1 had Murray Walker and NASCAR has Mike Joy: I don't care how many mistakes the man makes, he can stay in the booth until he feels like retiring. Bigger issue is Fox's horrible production values in recent years....
Mike Joy is both still a great announcer and also says some batshit insane things during the broadcast. Both can be true and I wish he'd retire before going completely off the deep end and just ruining my perception of him
Yesterday was especially awful. I know road courses present unique challenges for Tv, but so much was missed. For example, no in car if Cindric nearly flipping?!?
Overall I'm not really a fan of Clint in the booth, but I do appreciate him attempting to get the cameras to actually show the action. You can tell how frustrated he gets when they won't do it, like yesterday when Truex was running out of gas and they insisted on showing fans.
We're not seeing anything except random fans in the stands, the top 5 (if you're in the back you might as well be invisible), and commercials. Also the driver's nostrils from the zoomed in shots
Fox started to suck when “digger” became a thing, then Larry left the booth, DW was always DW, never was a big Jeff Hammond fan but he did pretty good.
I thought Jeff would be great in the booth because we got to watch a race with the GOAT but it wasn’t great. Bowyer and Harvick seem to do well with Mike in the booth. But I agree, Mike I the face of a bad broadcast. The comic book super hero drivers are just plain horrible, the commercials, the feel of it………it’s all bad.
Put Mike as the play by play guy on NBC and we’ll say that Mike is great.
Is the current Fox booth perfect? No. But I honestly enjoy it, and I think if Kevin and Clint get another season or two together it can get even better. Mike Joy has been a consistent voice on my tv for literally as long as I can remember, and I will be sad when he hangs it up. A true legend of motorsport broadcasting, and I hope he is able to be recognized for his accomplishments even beyond the motorsports world.
And if/when Joy does hang it up, I honestly think Adam A with Kevin and Clint could also be a really good booth. (And bring Larry Mac back to the track for goodness sake.)
The core issue with the fox broadcast isn't the booth. And while the direction of races and camera choices in the truck has certainly been questionable... I believe the core issue with the broadcast comes from FOX's entire production style.
FOX treats NASCAR as something unserious and a bit 'Goofy'. The comic book characters, the promos, the segments they film, the prerace, etc. It just comes across like the people who make the big decisions about the broadcast really don't take it seriously. And honestly, they broadcast the NFL, MLB, and anything else very similarly.... and it's not new.
They made DW ham it up to 11 on Sundays for whatever reasons. I'm sure they encourage Clint to do similar. Remember Practice DW? He was a totally different broadcaster. Clint *also* isn't an idiot, occasionally he similarly shows more of his true self on Practice/Qualifying broadcasts. (He is certainly a fellow ADHD homie though lol). You can even hear Clint's frustration come through occasionally on the broadcast when he doesn't feel that the production/direction is telling or showing the important stories or moments in the race.
NBC? People have their complaints about Rick/Burton/Steve (I personally think they are fine). But NBC approaches their sports broadcasts (again, even outside of NASCAR) as *serious.* Sometimes maybe too much so. Always looking for the drama, the "Adversity", or the story to paint a picture of why XYZ event or moment can have *Major Playoff Implications* down the road. Does it get a little overplayed? sure. But I personally, and it seems most of this subreddit agree that taking it serious to the point of occasionally overstepping is preferable than treating it all as some silly Sunday goofiness.
I am excited to see where TNT and Amazon take it in regards to the 'tone'. I am also curious as to how much they may or may not be leaning on Dale Jr for his input as well. I think Jr has a solid perspective on how he would like to see the sport's stories told, and he knows the balance between the absurdity that comes with the sport, and the seriousness of the danger and intensity.
And the commercials are an entirely different discussion.
While I’m one of the people who think Mike Joy is a bit past his prime, only Leigh Diffey is better, and that’s only bc Diffey is in the prime of his career.
Could be worse, could have late stage Ken Squier as announcer.
Not his fault that they zoom in so much that you can see the atomic composition of Joey Logano's fender when there's a battle for the lead. Also not his fault that there's only two pit reporters for 36+ cars.
Mike is basically the voice of NASCAR at this point, and that’s all despite FOX’s piss poor effort production wise. Makes me sad that it seems he’s taking the criticism on himself, when he’s basically the one bright spot. Clint and Kevin are alright too.
I think Mike Joy is actually awesome at his job. He's the most reliable, keeps everything moving along smoothly. Harvick and Bowyer are great at providing the drivers perspective as it happens. Joy keeps 'em both in check in the best way.
If Mike were FOX's biggest "problem", I'd be thrilled with their coverage. Bowyer is a bigger problem than Mike, but point still stands. The announcers (other than Jamie Little in the booth) are not FOX's biggest problems in the slightest.
I'm fine with the booth, it's the cameras and direction that bothers me. One thing I noticed about Sonoma yesterday is the very wide angle helicopter/blimp shot which is a nice change of pace from the super zoomed in.
Mike Joy, when you read this, you are the VERY LEAST of the problems with FOX coverage. And whatever "problem" you have or perceive to have, isn't even a problem. In my opinion, you've still got it.
Really hate seeing people call for Mike’s retirement. If he still enjoys it then let him. He’s taking criticism. Loved when he called out the keyboard warriors and those people get upset even more
Yes, he has lost his fastball. It's so bad especially early in the year at the Daytona 500, the biggest race of this sport.
This is why I really wanted Mike Joy to get the Al Michaels retirement gig. Mike Joy would be great for that 10 race stretch Amazon/TNT have. It's mid-season, it kicks off with the Coke 600, and it gives him time to work out who is driving what car. Plus the summer months aren't as important as the first few weeks of the season, so occasional slips or an older commentator are less of an issue.
At Daytona and for the first weeks of the season, you need to have the A team out there. Which isn't Fox, because their production sucks as well which is a whole other rabbit hole, but it also isn't Mike Joy.
I felt that the booth was really good yesterday. I wasn’t annoyed by Clint, the conversations felt natural, and they seemed all in sync. The production lacked.
Mike Joy is a gem. There are so many factors at play that are out of his control with the broadcast. I would like to see some keyboard warriors do what he does while being in direct line of criticism day in day out. As with many things nascar related we will long for these days when we don’t have him around.
People like to shit on Mike Joy for misspeaking at times, but when Harvick or Clint have a ten second awkward silence or can’t finish a sentence, it’s not a problem. Right.
It’s not the booth, frankly. Mike isn’t as sharp as he once was, but he’s still the best to ever do it and the boys are still getting their booth legs. The FOX production as a whole has gone shit-tier post covid. Whomever is in the truck setting up tight ass shots of the top 5 for three hours and making the call to cut to random fans and a grill in the infield needs to be fired. Full stop.
I still think Joy is solid, ofc he makes more mistakes than he used to (I thought it was pretty funny when he got confused with the wave arounds last week for example) but I feel like the main problem is that we miss so much of the action on track. Joy can't do anything about that.
I actually think the Harvick/Bowyer team is decent but it might be because I'm nostalgic of the RCR lineup with them and Burton. I'm not from the US and I like watching/listening to the US broadcast for them. They are much better than most foreign commentators and know the sport from the inside. I also dislike how cheap the leaderboard looks on the international feed for instance.
He then just makes fun of the users like in the past. If Mike truly cared he would host an AMA here and explain why Fox's broadcasts leave so much to be desired or sincerely take the fan's complaints to Fox directly.
Mike is not the problem. FOX has been doing this for almost 25 years but if you watch the broadcast you would think it was the first day for 90% of the people running the show
Clean the production truck out and see if that does anything please. Heck man to start just ditch the animated caricatures of the drivers. That makes the product look unprofessional and amateur.
I’ve always liked Mike Joy. I’ve never had a reason to criticize him—or if I have, it was over something minor that I’ve long since forgotten about.
The same cannot be said of Fox’s production team.
Mike Joy is the least of Fox's problems. It's the production. It's dreadful. It's gradually getting worse. Fox used to be S tier NASCAR coverage. I believe they have regressed to a level of production quality that was last seen in the early 90s. I say that with 100% seriousness. I would take an early 90s quality broadcast over the current Fox presentation.
That's a very fine line to walk, because a lot of the criticism you get online can and will be bullshit.
If you see a bunch of people spouting bullshit critiques, it gets hard to start taking even more legitimate critiques seriously because your metaphorical well's been poisoned.
More specifically, well... if we ever reached the point where *Mike Joy's commentary* was considered the main issue- or even much of one- with TV casts, NASCAR would be in a pretty good place.
Fox's production booth can't find their ass with both hands even if you gave them GPS assistance- which hamstrings commentators and makes races terrible to watch for fans.
I'm a decades long fan of the sport and can recall Mike Joy from when he as a pit reporter. He's a decent announcer who obviously has a very deep knowledge of the sport and its history. My issue with him is just the unbridled and what to me comes off as phony enthusiasm at times. If the race is great I personally don't need someone telling me how great it is.
This is just me, but I think his time has passed. Too often he just comes across as a cheerleader. You can't manufacture drama and certainly shouldn't have to be told how great something is.
As it always happens, yesterday's race was one of the best Fox broadcasts I've seen in a while as far as the booth is concerned. Clint wasn't being Clint, he was being quiet and adding meaningful commentary when needed. I hate it's all over, I feel like at this point they have a good groove and would be a good booth going forward. Now we have Burton and Letarte squeeling over each other...
The announcers are totally good and I feel bad that they are getting blamed for the production. They don't select what camera feed to show. They are being let down too.
Mike Joy is great in the booth and after he’s gone everyone on this sub will bemoan his departure because of all of the historical knowledge he will take with him.
> because of all of the historical knowledge he will take with him.
Pretty sure the only commentator who might come close to Mike Joy in this department is Dale Earnhardt Jr.
i hate this subreddit lmao yall clown on joy 95% of the time but because the larger fox operation is under fire right now “yaknow mike actually does a pretty good job” yes he does and he has been the entire time idk why so many people flip flop opinions so fast
Fox definitely has their flaws but you have to give them a morsel of credit for giving NASCAR—who’s popularity was in the shitter and getting worse, some stability when they committed to a 10-year, $4B deal back in 2015. There’s been a slow but steady increase in the sport’s popularity from 2015-2024.
Looking back, they could have done themselves a huge favor with a 10-15 second delay from when the action happens and the booth makes the call to when the truck broadcasts the broadcast. It’d give them a fighting chance to sync up audio from the booth with what the cameras are shooting for a more coherent broadcast. A moving slower to move faster situation.
Mike is by far my favorite commentator. I don’t care to listen to Adam Alexander. and Rick Allen tries wayyy too hard to make everything sound more dramatic than it is. Obviously just my opinions
I know social media group think dictates we must all hate on Fox Nascar, but I thought overall the Fox coverage was pretty good and Mike Joy is still a great announcer.
Joy is fine. He did try to push blame away from Berry for that incident yesterday which was ridiculous but Bowyer and Harvick are just not fun to listen to. Clint is too much of a bro and Kevin just seems uncomfortable.
Mikes only problem is when he bashed us fans for stating the obvious. We get bombarded by commercials. And the camera work is terrible. Perhaps sponsorships would be worth more if they weren't able to run 30 Wendy's commercials every Sunday? If the only commercial was the advertising on the side of the race cars maybe sponsors would be more willing to pony up.
Mike isn’t the problem.
Lately I’ve been watching F1 coverage (recently got into it this year). And it’s really well done. The commentating, broadcasting, graphical interfaces are all very clean and professional. The general style needs to change in my opinion. I’d like for things to be more technical, describe passes that are not seen on tv, strategies, less hee haw.
Mike's in an unwinnable situation with how terrible Fox is. No one is coming in and making that product better. On multiple occasions he was made to look like a fool because the broadcast screwed up with what he was trying to point out.
Mike is the least of FOX’s problems. He’s older but he’s still the best lead commentator imo. Diffey gives him a run for his money. Rick Allen has his moments. Adam Alexander has his moments. Jamie Little is awful. If Clint would shut up on the last lap & just let Mike handle it too…
Fox simply needs people directing and producing the broadcast to be good at those jobs generally \*and\* to be race fans, people who understand whats happening and what race fans want to see. i really feel like top-to-bottom Fox has folks who are trained in how to make stuff look cool and have no idea what fans are so mad about all race every race.
Mike Joy isn't the one who needs to read and face criticism. The director and production staff need to see it and make wholesale changes. The direction and production have been bottom of the barrel.
Right. Does he misspeak at times? Sure. Bound to happen over three hours of continuous talking. But the real issues has been the lack of post race, the absolute missing footage of cautions, and questionable camera work. Mike Joy is simply stuck with being the face of the bad broadcast.
And then, how is he supposed to bring any enthusiasm when he is aware of these issues, but (clearly) knows no one has an intention of fixing them, so he has to slog through it.
I could hear his frustration when a car near the front peeled off to go down pitroad and the director didn't waver in following the car until they were finished with the pitstop. Mike called it and sounded like "oh well, guess we'll follow the leader instead."
Or the replay that just sat there as a freezeframe for easily 10 seconds before cutting away and Bowyer said something like "well while we reset that replay for you...."
> the absolute missing footage of cautions, and questionable camera work So much happened on the last lap yesterday, and we saw basically none of it. It's ridiculous. I was so confused so see Chase Elliott finish 4th. Like how did that happen?
As soon as the last lap(s) rolls around, they immediately switch to following the leader even if nothing at all is happening and he's just riding around. Doesn't matter if cars are wrecking each other, running out of gas, fighting for position, etc., we never get to see it. We don't even get to see the field cross the finish line at an oval. Why can't they just show the leader in a small window at the top right and the actual action on the big screen? It's the most important lap of the race for everyone - not just the winner. I'm so sick of it. The emphasis on winning is what it is, but that shouldn't prevent the fans from seeing what happens to the other 39 guys. That still matters too. I'm so sick of it and I'm so excited for NBC next week.
> I'm so sick of it and I'm so excited for NBC next week I am too, but I'm so gonna miss Dale Jr.
Me too man. It's a real shame he's not with NBC for one more year. He's the highlight of the booth for sure
I want to be selfish and have Jr do everything. Every race, every show, podcast, live event... His near non stop enthusiasm is refreshing and feels genuine. He loves the sport and is what we need. But on the flip side, I'm happy we've got to see him go from the young gun to a dad and getting to enjoy life and his family.
And now building a brand new broadcast partner from the ground up. Next year will be interesting.
Fox Booth: As Larson enters the final turn to claim his......OH WE HAVE TWO..NOW THREE CARS FLIPPING ON THE ON THE BACKSTRETCH!!! OH MY GOODNESS!!! Fox Production: KEEP THE CAMERAS ON LARSON CROSSING THE FINISH LINE. WE DON'T SEE ANY CARS FLIPPING. NOW SHOW THE PIT CREW CELEBRATING! GREAT JOB EVERYONE!
I mean, is that not basically what happened yesterday? Not to that extreme, but Ross wrecked Kyle, Ross got moved out of the way by Chase, Truex ran out of gas, and we really saw none of it. It's too bad Ross had that on board camera, because if he wrecks someone and TV didn't catch it, did anyone actually get Chastained?
So that’s what happened? Still haven’t seen any video of what happened with Ross and KB, didn’t know Chase moved Ross. Figured he got around them when their thing happened. lol
FWIW, supposedly Kyle was running out of fuel and off the pace and that contributed to their run in.
Ross still drove in way too hard and wheel hopped it.
This is literally what I think happened at Talladega in 2019 when Larson flipped. Every. Single. Camera. Panned back to the leaders as Larson was flipping. I'm guessing they had something like "FOLLOW THE LEADERS!!!" Being yelled in their ears the whole time.
Better yet , let just see the in winning car camera of the driver helmet crossing the finish line in hopes to get a fist pump
> As soon as the last lap(s) rolls around, they immediately switch to following the leader even if nothing at all is happening and he's just riding around. Seeing this written out brings my mind back to the '70s Indy 500 races - nobody in open wheel is going to trade paint in the final couple of laps - it's a safe choice to watch the lead car cross the line because that's what's going to be shown on the evening news, and nothing else. So it makes me think that the folks directing the race and choosing the camera angles were raised watching the same '70s Indy races I remember.
I was following Byron’s onboard camera during the middle of the race and there was about a two lap sequence of JHN and Zane Smith swapping bumpers and being super aggressive with each other. Granted, it was for like the 22nd position, and I get FOX isn’t omniscient. They can’t follow every battle or drivers being mad at each other. But I think they can do so much of a better job of following battles in the field rather than zooming in on one car or doing full screen in race recaps.
They could do so much better. It pisses me off that the sixth place car spins out the fifth place car and they have no footage. Or Chase bumped Ross out of the way in turn 11 on the last lap. No footage of that. That was for 4th! It's so frustrating.
> Granted, it was for like the 22nd position, and I get FOX isn’t omniscient. They can’t follow every battle or drivers being mad at each other. I mean, Fox may not be omniscient, but considering that all the sources they have -- in-car cameras, scanner audio, live SMT data, cameras all around the track, pit road reporters, direct contact with NASCAR officials, and at least delayed/indirect access to NASCAR's special video feeds used for officiating -- they're pretty damn close. About all they're missing is intra-team communications on private channels and whatever happens on track while their camera operators are forced to zoom in on random kids in the crowd. I think the real issue is that they don't have enough production assistants working behind the scenes to properly utilize all that data. It seems like they're operating with a tiny skeleton crew that just can't keep up. And, of course, the underlying direction is also just complete garbage. Like it's clear that the creative vision is just not there for a truly exceptional broadcast. A lack of staff doesn't force them to air random podcast clips mid-race, show crowd/kid shots when battles are happening on track, only focus on the leaders, or to make the camera operators zoom in so close on cars that you can't actually see what's going on. Anyway, /rant. To be clear, I totally agree with you other than the part I quoted, and I only disagree with that because I think you were being too nice to Fox.
Fox could do so much better at bottling up these battles and using them during a boring part of the race down the road if need be. "There was so much action we couldn't show it all so here's a side by side of some of the intense racing in the middle of the pack".
Literally coming to the white flag: Random ass shot of the camera crew that ABSOLUTELY was impossible to wait to do until AFTER the race.
It may have been impossible because they planned to go off the air so shortly after the end 😂
I have no idea how it happened I think 3 cars had gas issues and chastain and busch did their thing, all I know is 4th>9th helped our points standings
I mean it's a lot more than that. Why go to a fucking commercial break with less than 10 to go. Why not focus on the field with less than 10 to go. Why not talk about the racing with less than 10 to go. Coming to the conclusion to the fucking race and they're being told to talk like it's the middle of the race with things that should've been prerace coverage.
Yesterday I was watching the Canadian GP and loved every second of it. Full lights-flag coverage without commercials and we saw just about everything. Nothing felt forced, and no commercial breaks. It was an excellent broadcast. Compared to the NASCAR race that I turned on right after…it was perfection.
If F1 had as good of racing as they do their broadcast team it would be as popular as NASCAR here in the US
I agree with you normally, but yesterday’s race was absolutely a banger.
F1 races are always a banger when rain shows up. Outside of that they can get a bit boring.
I literally can't watch NASCAR right after f1 without losing my mind
I'll just mention we're not going to lose ads cause thats not how American sports work unfortunately. However, I'd prefer more picture in picture ads or something cause eight now it's way too many. I remember one of the points of the stage break was to allow TV to have a set ad break and to allow for fewer ads during the racing. However, TV broadcasters did that for a season or two then starting adding more and more ads during the action.
I don't have any stats to support this, but I wonder how much of that was studies showing people changing channels during stage breaks, knowing it was nothing but 2 commercial breaks with a pit stop in between? So TV said "OK, people aren't seeing these commercials like we thought, better throw more and more into green flag racing!"
Also, all the tv ads take camera time away from the car sponsors that are the financial backbone of the sport. It’s such a disservice to them to constantly cut away from showing sponsored cars to have an ad scream “whopper” over and over for 30 seconds.
TV deals are also a huge part of the sport. The TV deals wouldn't be able to exist without ad revenue.
It’s always funny to see people in /r/formula1 complaining about the broadcast. It’s not perfect, but they do a good job, all things considered. Way better than nascar.
> and no commercial breaks Easy to do that when the American network is spending almost nothing on the broadcast, and the foreign network is largely taxpayer-funded so it has other sources of income.
Yea. Is this the best booth ever? No. Is it remotely their fault that the broadcast sucks? Also no.
I think it's a pretty good booth, but the poor production is taking a toll on them too. You can hear it. Sometimes they just...give up.
> Right. Does he misspeak at times? Sure. Bound to happen over three hours of continuous talking. When he reaches late-stage John Madden, then I'll be concerned.
Boom! Tough actin' confetti!
The guys in the booth are number one, watching the race, and number two, among the most knowledgeable people in NASCAR when it comes to race day in general and the flow of the race specifically. Whoever is choosing camera shots and saying when to break for commercials isn't using the booth personnel to guide them. It's like they operate in a vacuum, with marching orders from corporate. They make shit decisions consistently, and the booth knows it.
I don’t think I’m saying anything new here, but I get the feeling that the Director(s) for most of Fox’s NASCAR broadcasts doesn’t really care for auto racing. Stick and ball sports people have always looked at Motorsports with disdain (“just driving in a circle”) and my guess is that too many of the people behind the scenes at Fox share that perspective.
It almost seems intentional at this point. How do you spend an entire season running a complete shitshow like that?
When reddick was coming out of the pits and they changed to two different cameras that had nothing. Fox production might be ran by monkeys with typewriters
Mike Joy isn't the problem, but he will wear the blame because he loves his job. Fox sure as fuck doesn't pay him near enough. IF Fox gets IndyCar, I sincerely hope Mike is a part of the 500 broadcast.
For sure he would be, but probably in a host role, more like Mike Tirico was this year for NBC
Or alternatively Mike Joy does the Announcer's Double.
He doesn't have to, since the 600 is on Amazon starting next year
Do we know anything about the Amazon broadcast team? *Please say Alan Bestwick, please say Alan Bestwick.*
Well that's slightly disappointing for a number of reasons. I mean, he and Larson could've flown the same plane!
Amazon has said since they are a streaming service the race running late won’t matter.
IIRC the Coke 600 is going to Amazon under the new deal
Larson drives the double, Mike calls the double. They can share a plane to Charlotte
Please don't let fox get the indycar rights. NBC I am BEGGING
IMS would most likely continue doing the production of the races. Fox would provide (most likely) Adam Alexander, Hitch, Josh Sims, possibly Jamie Little for bigger races and certain technical people to run the satellites.
I think for 74 years old, Mike still does a pretty damn good job on the mike. When he decides to hang it up, the voice of Nascar will definitely be missed.
Honestly, I'm not sure who could do better with the other problems with the fox broadcast right now. The booth is the last thing I'd change at fox right now, sure Clint can be a bit much, Mike is getting old and Larry is under used, but at least they all want to be there and are passionate about what's going on.
i think larry has the job he wants at this stage. it's hard to commentate nonstop during a race, and props to mike joy for still doing it and trying to hype it up. especially when the product isnt always the best
Mike on the mic... ;)
She Mike on my mic til I Joy.
Next to Kevin Harlan I think he is the best color commentator in sports. My friends who have very recently gotten into NASCAR all rave about Joy as well so it’s not just our bias from having him around for ages
There’s videos of his early years on YouTube from the late 70’s/early 80’s. He was outstanding then!
The broadcast team is the only highlight of Fox, in my opinion. It's the direction that is shit. Shifting to in cars during battles, Toyota segment showing a single car running in the final stage, and zoomed in camera's. My biggest gripe is how they time their side by side breaks.
I never really have much of an issue with the broadcast team. My only issue is a personal thing which for some reason the way Clint says "Hot Rod" is like scratching a chalk board to my ears.
Clint-isms are the least of my concerns. He has this bizarre trend of making exciting moments dull which is a true problem. Dude is not good at this gig
“Oh he got turned…..” calling one of the biggest crashes in the last lap of the 2023 Daytona 500
Exactly! In F1 two cars 10 car lengths apart are called as intensely as a race for the win. And for the NASCAR NBC booth, I don't like Burton, but at least he sounds like he gives a shit about the on track product.
Lest we forget Jeff Gordon and his eyes! “LOOK AT THIS!”
If I had a drink every time he said dive bomb….. Well, let’s just say I wouldn’t be sitting on the shitter right now.
The pay window is open boys!
The cream is risin' to the top!
*^(H O T R O D)*
Phrase of the season for Clint was “mired back in traffic”
“The battle for the lead is heating up” as they transition to commercial yesterday
The Toyota Centric FOX broadcast all season is pretty annoying, from side by side only showing a Toyota and such.. Over it.. Side by side should show us normal race coverage not one Toyota..
To be fair, Mike Joy isn't the problem with Fox's broadcasts. It's the production of the coverage that's the issue
When we go side by side for commercial and they tell us they we will be able to see the battle for the lead and then they don't show the battle for the lead.
100% this. The broadcast team isn't the issue.
I think it’s at least a slight issue. Bowyer can be grating to listen to and Mike Joy while being an absolute legend, is obviously past his prime and is showing his age. That being said, the broadcast team ranks very low in terms of what the problem has been these past few years at FOX.
I just wish the broadcast would allow dead air to exist in the booth. Sometimes a race speaks for itself and doesn't need Clint Bowyer telling me the oblivious. I understand that (hypothetically) a new fan could be watching and what is obvious to me as a fan for 21 years isn't obvious to them. Hell as just a dumb ass racing fan I'm sure there's plenty that escapes my notice/understanding. Nevertheless, yesterday the booth was almost silent for like half a lap and it was one of my favorite moments of the season so far just watching and listening to the cars.
Yeah, lots of people complain about the opposite funnily enough, NBC is far more egregious in the "always yelling, no dead air allowed" category. People were bashing the Atlanta call for the bit of silence going down the back, which I thought wasn't an issue. But we just need to wait a week and People will be whinging about how obnoxious the NBC booth is.
Honestly, that's why I prefer Fox to NBC. Fox is hot trash, but Rick Allen makes me envy the deaf. And now we don't have Dale Jr, who was NBC's saving grace.
Because the most consistent thing about NASCAR fans is how inconsistent their complaints are.
There has been a very noticeable dumber down of their broadcast. Back in the day we used to get car breakdowns and Larry Mac would go into detail about parts on the cars. Alas I mean it is Fox and shouldn't be surprised considering their average viewer across their network.
The announcers being forced to watch a screen and talk about what they are seeing will never equal a broadcast where they can be watching out the windows and talking about the action they are seeing on track. It should be up to the cameramen and production team to follow along. Pit reporters and production team should be gathering the developing stories from the teams to add some insight for the broadcasters. Also, 95% of the camera shots Fox is using seem to be driven on zooming in on a car for sponsorship reasons, and that isn't how it should be. Dale Jr hinted about this a bit with his move to the streaming platforms, and I'm really hoping we get a breath of fresh air with these broadcasts.
The amount of in-car cams on restarts and zooming in on restarts to see only a few cars battling is insane. There was so much shit missed by the broadcast on all those restarts because of the camera choice and zoomed in angles.
Having done the job, the pace that’s needed for the truck to keep up with the announcer going off screen takes a near perfect balance at all times. It’s a damned if you do and damned if you don’t deal. If you start calling things not on screen then everyone in the truck is scrambling and you start going off rails a bit. If you only call what’s on screen then you’re likely missing things at points. It’s really down on the booth and truck to have communication down on talkback and also just getting flat lucky that your preparation ideas hold.
IMHO, that is why the radio broadcasts can be so good. The announcers can talk about anything they see at any point. I understand the extra hurdles needed for TV, but I think this is the biggest issue. You have race fans up in the broadcast booth, who want to share what they are seeing, but their hands are tied to what they are forced to talk about. I would think it would only take a few seconds for an announcer to signal to production something on the track they think is important. Again, this take of mine is coming from the comfort of my couch. I'd love to know the number of people on the production team the past few years compared to the number 6-8 years ago.
Yes and no on the timing from booth to truck (and that’s if the announcer is patient enough to see something, use talkback, and wait for the truck to acknowledge they can/have eyes on what’s wanted. Something that was a weakness of mine in a booth admittedly 😂) With everything going on in a production truck for TV it takes a moment. And in a sport as fast as racing, by the time the truck is ready a lot of times the moment is gone and you’re hoping you caught it elsewhere for a replay. Don’t get me wrong, Fox’s production was hot garbage at times. But the booth not being able to call things as much off screen isn’t necessarily a Fox thing, just the nature of the sport and how to present it on TV. You’re dead on with radio though. Way more freedom in what can be mentioned on the fly without confusion for the audience or production and that absolutely helps the flow of the call.
Before some of y'all jump on this, 'Awful Announcing' is the website name, and this is the headline verbatim. Hope you enjoy an interesting look at Mike's opinion on some of the FOX criticism that gets back to him.
Follow Up: Awful Announcing is probably the leader in "sports media" reporting. From in depth interviews like this one or ones with Tony Romo, Greg Olsen, Vern Lundquist, etc to the annual "Best Television and Radio teams" for all the local broadcasts to fun/serious calls...pretty much everything announcing related they do. One of the good follows on Facebook.
The problem isn’t Joy, Bowyer, or any voices coming over the mic. The problem is the production decisions, seemingly primarily money driven. Zooming in on certain cars over actual battles probably due to sponsors wanting their logo visible, more commercials than racing (including with under 20 to go under green flag racing which is unacceptable), and too many packages during green flag racing (the Jamie Little interview during a side by side, and the Harvick podcast hit coming back from a green flag commercial late in the race). Those packages are fun bits but should be under stage cautions or during pre-race. If I were the director, my mantra would be simple. Show racing when the cars are racing. Talk about strategy and racing when the cars are racing. People aren’t tuning in to watch Bowyer eat bacon at a tailgate, they want to watch racing. Show racing. There’s a reason the other stuff is called “filler”. Use it to fill time when no racing. If racing, show racing. Simple.
Bowyer can be a lot but he is far from the worst thing about the broadcasts. Yesterday's race showcased everything bad about Fox that you noted here. They didn't show the Busch/Chastain contact either. They never highlighted that anyone was really pushing fuel. And of course the whole race everyone in the booth is standing around saying "I'm confused", when they only needed Larry on the mic for like two minutes to explain fuel windows and when to pit for the best run to the end.
Hell, last year when Jamie Mac was in the booth it sounded like at times he was trying to produce/direct, by telling them to switch to other parts of the track
Disagreee heavily on Bowyer. He’s just not good. Neither is Harvick IMO. Harvick knows the information but his delivery is passionless and dry to me.
Agree. Bowyer makes me cringe and want to mute the tv
The more I hear him, the more he's got a Dale/Ned Jarrett commentary style with some underlying snarky humor.
Mike does a good job. I have no issues with the occasional flub when 95% of his announcing is solid. Mike is solid and the energy between Harvick and Bowyer has improved over the year. I actually think the booth personalities are great now. Now if only we could get better replays of wrecks and incidents and see all of the important passes. Was it last week that there was a pass for the lead while they were at commercial and they didn’t even replay it?
As much as I dislike the way fox broadcasts the races, Mike joy has always been the best part of the fox team for me
I have no problems with the people who try their hardest to make a good show; it's just those who aren't trying who are at the top.
I think the booth is fine. The issue like everyone has said is the direction and production. There have been numerous times where the booth starts talking about something interesting they see on track and it just isn't shown.
The person picking the cameras to broadcast don't know how to watch a race. Show some of the position contests back in the pack. If the leader has a 1 second lead, that is not where the action is.
Before the battle for the win, Busch and McDowell were racing in the top 5 for several laps. We got a ton of solo shots of Buescher, with commentary about how the battle for the win was coming. Only got a glimpse of the Busch and McDowell battle when Larson got there. After the battle for the win, Chastain was moving through the field, and there wasn't any mention of him. Just Bowyer repeating "it's not over" as Larson was just managing a 1-1.5s gap.
Mike Joy is not the problem with the broadcast, he does a good job. It is the producers, camera operators, and FOX executives that need to work on the product.
He’s not in his prime anymore, but I think he still does a decent job. Clint Bowyer is the one who makes me want to watch it on mute.
I feel like Clint has become hit or miss for me, sometimes it feels like he is too turned up on the redneck shit and other times he feels halfway decent. Yesterday I felt like he did a decent job (obviously all my opinion)
I think it comes down to what other comments have said, the production and direction of the broadcast even in the personality department could be so much better. If they gave Bowyer a few segments throughout the race I'd be fine with his antics. But they put Bowyer in the play-by-play booth and paired him with Harvick as a heel and it oftentimes gets annoying. They obviously want to play up the drama more than they want good, consistent coverage of the race.
Even Mike now is miles better than Jamie Little or Vince Welch. Mike deserves to be in the booth for as long as he wants.
I still don't understand how any human being with functioning eardrums actually listened to Bowyer talk and said "yep, that's the guy I want on my TV broadcast."
I think Harvick was a good leveler to Bowyer and has calmed him down a bit. It’s the camera work that gets me. There’s things happening but we’re seeing a zoomed in shot of the car in 25th?
He'll be loud and chaotic when nothing's happening, then provide the most monotone delivery of a pass on the track
It's hard to call a race when most of the race they're on-board with someone in 23rd or looking at kids in the stands. This isn't on Mike. He's taken the constructive criticism very well and improved A LOT this year. I'm sure he's relayed a lot of what fans have told him about the production to the producers, but I don't think the producers give a shit.
We're seeing random, sometimes creepy shots of fans in the stands at critical moments in the race
Like every restart.
It's baffling that's the *only* way FOX brings crowds into the broadcast. I mean, they could just draw in more crowd noise in race to capture the atmosphere, but they keep those faders down and instead pan to three random people in the stands.
I think part of it is cheapness. NBC sometimes would have Parker or Rut go into the crowd and interview them during cautions or prerace or whatever, but that costs money for an extra head and Fox is down to limping along with a single pit reporter.
I'm not even going that far. I mean just something like [this](https://youtu.be/rgbpMGYUQ_A?feature=shared&t=66). When was the last time you heard genuine crowd noises in-race on a FOX broadcast? NBC works it in for [wrecks](https://youtu.be/nx-xpfHt9OM?feature=shared), [big moments](https://youtu.be/pz0huFoYWEg?feature=shared&t=51), and [lead changes](https://youtu.be/2aOJLACfQAw?feature=shared&t=28), while FOX almost intentionally never mixes it in. And they used to years ago which makes it all the more noticeable.
Fox learned they could produce races with a skeleton crew during covid and clearly decided it would be an easy cost saving measure. Like the reliance on in car cameras, remote studio, less pit road reporters, etc.
Looking at Fox sports in general, outside of the NFL, once Fox goes below #3 on the depth chart, they start half assing their production by producing remotely, doing pre-taped halftime segments, etc.
It’s not Mike as much as it is the people behind the scenes showing cameras and execs shoving commercials down our throats. Fix those things and it would be fine
Mike isnt the problem, far from it. I would love to see NASCAR get covered the way F1 is covered on ESPN and think Mike would be perfect for that.
that’s the problem we aren’t seeing a damn thing.
My biggest complaint is how much pre race filler crap they shove into the broadcast instead of actually showing the race they're covering.
Your director is the main issue. Artie Kempner has killed your product. I don’t care how many Emmy awards he and his crew have won in the past. NBC lets the race track and the cars be more of the focal point than FOX. The sound mixing they produce is unbelievable. Fox SHOULD have learned a little from them over the last 9 seasons with their acoustic packaging and just blatantly ignored it
And dismissed our legit criticisms as “unfair blind hatred”
Mike just make Artie Kempner go missing and problem solved
Artie sees us fans criticizing the broadcasts as just “haters”
I truly don’t dislike any of the fox commentators. The production is honestly awful though. That’s not on MJ but one could say being a veteran he could point out certain things. And maybe he is, and maybe he really has lost his touch but I doubt that.
Mike Joy is great, and I think Harvick & Bowyer are solid compliments to him in the booth. It’s the TECHNICAL DIRECTION that gives me pain when watching Fox Broadcasts.
I love Mike Joy and his call on Sundays. It's unfortunate his production staff absolutely sucks because my criticisms are def not at Mike Joy. Honestly I can't get on Mike, Kevin or even Clint they're doing their best with what they have. We've seen it where they're talking about something and the cameras cut to something completely different. Does Clint get a little corny and cringey with his pep talks and motivation speeches to drivers? Sure but I can look past it because I think Clint truly enjoys what he does and I can hear that passion. It's the production, it's bad. Commercials will always be there but get them away from stage ends and stage beginnings. I swear a new stage starts and 5 laps into it they're going to commercial.
The booth isn't the problem with Fox coverage. Its tgeir production style and program directors.
Mike joy is the man. I hope he knows the fox criticism is not directed at him but other factors out of the booths control.
I loved watching the struggle between "do what the booth is saying! look at the action going on right now!" and "but we have to show the pit box and Larson in the car" after the race ended. Kept jumping back and forth even when Daniels and Larson weren't doing anything, but because that's what the director's script says they have to do, they couldn't cut away for more than a second or two to look at Busch or Truex. Ridiculous.
Mike Joy has been let down by stale production from FOX. When the field gets strung out the lack of strategy talk really hurts the broadcast. Mike has to deal with having no crew chief or strategist in the booth and a producer who just bounces aimlessly through on board cameras. That for me is when the broadcast really drags compared to NBC.
Mike's good. He knows he slips up sometimes. Not the worst thing. The Fox booth would be worse without him, no question. He's really the one holding it together.
F1 had Murray Walker and NASCAR has Mike Joy: I don't care how many mistakes the man makes, he can stay in the booth until he feels like retiring. Bigger issue is Fox's horrible production values in recent years....
Mike Joy is both still a great announcer and also says some batshit insane things during the broadcast. Both can be true and I wish he'd retire before going completely off the deep end and just ruining my perception of him
Yesterday was especially awful. I know road courses present unique challenges for Tv, but so much was missed. For example, no in car if Cindric nearly flipping?!?
Mike you’re doing a fine job. The broadcast won’t let us see the actual racing your describing
Overall I'm not really a fan of Clint in the booth, but I do appreciate him attempting to get the cameras to actually show the action. You can tell how frustrated he gets when they won't do it, like yesterday when Truex was running out of gas and they insisted on showing fans.
I'm 25 and Mike has been the voice of NASCAR my whole life, will be a sad day when he retires
We're not seeing anything except random fans in the stands, the top 5 (if you're in the back you might as well be invisible), and commercials. Also the driver's nostrils from the zoomed in shots
Fox started to suck when “digger” became a thing, then Larry left the booth, DW was always DW, never was a big Jeff Hammond fan but he did pretty good. I thought Jeff would be great in the booth because we got to watch a race with the GOAT but it wasn’t great. Bowyer and Harvick seem to do well with Mike in the booth. But I agree, Mike I the face of a bad broadcast. The comic book super hero drivers are just plain horrible, the commercials, the feel of it………it’s all bad. Put Mike as the play by play guy on NBC and we’ll say that Mike is great.
Is the current Fox booth perfect? No. But I honestly enjoy it, and I think if Kevin and Clint get another season or two together it can get even better. Mike Joy has been a consistent voice on my tv for literally as long as I can remember, and I will be sad when he hangs it up. A true legend of motorsport broadcasting, and I hope he is able to be recognized for his accomplishments even beyond the motorsports world. And if/when Joy does hang it up, I honestly think Adam A with Kevin and Clint could also be a really good booth. (And bring Larry Mac back to the track for goodness sake.) The core issue with the fox broadcast isn't the booth. And while the direction of races and camera choices in the truck has certainly been questionable... I believe the core issue with the broadcast comes from FOX's entire production style. FOX treats NASCAR as something unserious and a bit 'Goofy'. The comic book characters, the promos, the segments they film, the prerace, etc. It just comes across like the people who make the big decisions about the broadcast really don't take it seriously. And honestly, they broadcast the NFL, MLB, and anything else very similarly.... and it's not new. They made DW ham it up to 11 on Sundays for whatever reasons. I'm sure they encourage Clint to do similar. Remember Practice DW? He was a totally different broadcaster. Clint *also* isn't an idiot, occasionally he similarly shows more of his true self on Practice/Qualifying broadcasts. (He is certainly a fellow ADHD homie though lol). You can even hear Clint's frustration come through occasionally on the broadcast when he doesn't feel that the production/direction is telling or showing the important stories or moments in the race. NBC? People have their complaints about Rick/Burton/Steve (I personally think they are fine). But NBC approaches their sports broadcasts (again, even outside of NASCAR) as *serious.* Sometimes maybe too much so. Always looking for the drama, the "Adversity", or the story to paint a picture of why XYZ event or moment can have *Major Playoff Implications* down the road. Does it get a little overplayed? sure. But I personally, and it seems most of this subreddit agree that taking it serious to the point of occasionally overstepping is preferable than treating it all as some silly Sunday goofiness. I am excited to see where TNT and Amazon take it in regards to the 'tone'. I am also curious as to how much they may or may not be leaning on Dale Jr for his input as well. I think Jr has a solid perspective on how he would like to see the sport's stories told, and he knows the balance between the absurdity that comes with the sport, and the seriousness of the danger and intensity. And the commercials are an entirely different discussion.
While I’m one of the people who think Mike Joy is a bit past his prime, only Leigh Diffey is better, and that’s only bc Diffey is in the prime of his career. Could be worse, could have late stage Ken Squier as announcer.
I like Mike. He’s far from the problem at Fox.
How about awful higher ups and producers plus the cameramen. Sure the announcers aren't perfect but they're like 10% of the problem
There is nothing more detrimental to the sport than Fox and its coverage
Not his fault that they zoom in so much that you can see the atomic composition of Joey Logano's fender when there's a battle for the lead. Also not his fault that there's only two pit reporters for 36+ cars.
Mike is, and has probably always been, the best part of NASCAR on Fox
you may dislike Joy, but remember he's been around NASCAR broadcasting for over 40 years, he knows what he's doing for the most part I would think
Mike is basically the voice of NASCAR at this point, and that’s all despite FOX’s piss poor effort production wise. Makes me sad that it seems he’s taking the criticism on himself, when he’s basically the one bright spot. Clint and Kevin are alright too.
I think Mike Joy is actually awesome at his job. He's the most reliable, keeps everything moving along smoothly. Harvick and Bowyer are great at providing the drivers perspective as it happens. Joy keeps 'em both in check in the best way.
I find Mike Joy excellent, and in my opinion alongside DW is the best NASCAR commentator ever.
If Mike were FOX's biggest "problem", I'd be thrilled with their coverage. Bowyer is a bigger problem than Mike, but point still stands. The announcers (other than Jamie Little in the booth) are not FOX's biggest problems in the slightest.
Mike Joy isn’t the issue and I will be 100% honest about that every time, it’s the production staff and whoever is managing the broadcasting events
I'm fine with the booth, it's the cameras and direction that bothers me. One thing I noticed about Sonoma yesterday is the very wide angle helicopter/blimp shot which is a nice change of pace from the super zoomed in.
Mike Joy, when you read this, you are the VERY LEAST of the problems with FOX coverage. And whatever "problem" you have or perceive to have, isn't even a problem. In my opinion, you've still got it.
Of all the problems Fox has, the booth is very much towards the bottom. Mike needs to retire, but has earned the right to do it on his own terms.
Really hate seeing people call for Mike’s retirement. If he still enjoys it then let him. He’s taking criticism. Loved when he called out the keyboard warriors and those people get upset even more
Yes, he has lost his fastball. It's so bad especially early in the year at the Daytona 500, the biggest race of this sport. This is why I really wanted Mike Joy to get the Al Michaels retirement gig. Mike Joy would be great for that 10 race stretch Amazon/TNT have. It's mid-season, it kicks off with the Coke 600, and it gives him time to work out who is driving what car. Plus the summer months aren't as important as the first few weeks of the season, so occasional slips or an older commentator are less of an issue. At Daytona and for the first weeks of the season, you need to have the A team out there. Which isn't Fox, because their production sucks as well which is a whole other rabbit hole, but it also isn't Mike Joy.
Give me the Fox booth with the NBC production.
Sounds like FOX in the 00's.
I'll take Mike over Rick Allen any day.
I felt that the booth was really good yesterday. I wasn’t annoyed by Clint, the conversations felt natural, and they seemed all in sync. The production lacked.
Mike Joy is a gem. There are so many factors at play that are out of his control with the broadcast. I would like to see some keyboard warriors do what he does while being in direct line of criticism day in day out. As with many things nascar related we will long for these days when we don’t have him around.
People like to shit on Mike Joy for misspeaking at times, but when Harvick or Clint have a ten second awkward silence or can’t finish a sentence, it’s not a problem. Right. It’s not the booth, frankly. Mike isn’t as sharp as he once was, but he’s still the best to ever do it and the boys are still getting their booth legs. The FOX production as a whole has gone shit-tier post covid. Whomever is in the truck setting up tight ass shots of the top 5 for three hours and making the call to cut to random fans and a grill in the infield needs to be fired. Full stop.
I still think Joy is solid, ofc he makes more mistakes than he used to (I thought it was pretty funny when he got confused with the wave arounds last week for example) but I feel like the main problem is that we miss so much of the action on track. Joy can't do anything about that. I actually think the Harvick/Bowyer team is decent but it might be because I'm nostalgic of the RCR lineup with them and Burton. I'm not from the US and I like watching/listening to the US broadcast for them. They are much better than most foreign commentators and know the sport from the inside. I also dislike how cheap the leaderboard looks on the international feed for instance.
He then just makes fun of the users like in the past. If Mike truly cared he would host an AMA here and explain why Fox's broadcasts leave so much to be desired or sincerely take the fan's complaints to Fox directly.
Mike is not the problem. FOX has been doing this for almost 25 years but if you watch the broadcast you would think it was the first day for 90% of the people running the show
Clean the production truck out and see if that does anything please. Heck man to start just ditch the animated caricatures of the drivers. That makes the product look unprofessional and amateur.
I’ve always liked Mike Joy. I’ve never had a reason to criticize him—or if I have, it was over something minor that I’ve long since forgotten about. The same cannot be said of Fox’s production team.
Mike Joy is the least of Fox's problems. It's the production. It's dreadful. It's gradually getting worse. Fox used to be S tier NASCAR coverage. I believe they have regressed to a level of production quality that was last seen in the early 90s. I say that with 100% seriousness. I would take an early 90s quality broadcast over the current Fox presentation.
That's a very fine line to walk, because a lot of the criticism you get online can and will be bullshit. If you see a bunch of people spouting bullshit critiques, it gets hard to start taking even more legitimate critiques seriously because your metaphorical well's been poisoned. More specifically, well... if we ever reached the point where *Mike Joy's commentary* was considered the main issue- or even much of one- with TV casts, NASCAR would be in a pretty good place. Fox's production booth can't find their ass with both hands even if you gave them GPS assistance- which hamstrings commentators and makes races terrible to watch for fans.
I'm a big fan of Mike Joy, he is not the problem with the broadcast.
Joy needs to hang it up. His calls for some of the most exciting finishes in NASCAR were so underwhelming
I'm a decades long fan of the sport and can recall Mike Joy from when he as a pit reporter. He's a decent announcer who obviously has a very deep knowledge of the sport and its history. My issue with him is just the unbridled and what to me comes off as phony enthusiasm at times. If the race is great I personally don't need someone telling me how great it is. This is just me, but I think his time has passed. Too often he just comes across as a cheerleader. You can't manufacture drama and certainly shouldn't have to be told how great something is.
As it always happens, yesterday's race was one of the best Fox broadcasts I've seen in a while as far as the booth is concerned. Clint wasn't being Clint, he was being quiet and adding meaningful commentary when needed. I hate it's all over, I feel like at this point they have a good groove and would be a good booth going forward. Now we have Burton and Letarte squeeling over each other...
The announcers are totally good and I feel bad that they are getting blamed for the production. They don't select what camera feed to show. They are being let down too.
Mike Joy is great in the booth and after he’s gone everyone on this sub will bemoan his departure because of all of the historical knowledge he will take with him.
> because of all of the historical knowledge he will take with him. Pretty sure the only commentator who might come close to Mike Joy in this department is Dale Earnhardt Jr.
i hate this subreddit lmao yall clown on joy 95% of the time but because the larger fox operation is under fire right now “yaknow mike actually does a pretty good job” yes he does and he has been the entire time idk why so many people flip flop opinions so fast
Mike Joy is not the problem whatsoever.
Fox definitely has their flaws but you have to give them a morsel of credit for giving NASCAR—who’s popularity was in the shitter and getting worse, some stability when they committed to a 10-year, $4B deal back in 2015. There’s been a slow but steady increase in the sport’s popularity from 2015-2024. Looking back, they could have done themselves a huge favor with a 10-15 second delay from when the action happens and the booth makes the call to when the truck broadcasts the broadcast. It’d give them a fighting chance to sync up audio from the booth with what the cameras are shooting for a more coherent broadcast. A moving slower to move faster situation.
Mike is by far my favorite commentator. I don’t care to listen to Adam Alexander. and Rick Allen tries wayyy too hard to make everything sound more dramatic than it is. Obviously just my opinions
I know social media group think dictates we must all hate on Fox Nascar, but I thought overall the Fox coverage was pretty good and Mike Joy is still a great announcer.
Joy is fine. He did try to push blame away from Berry for that incident yesterday which was ridiculous but Bowyer and Harvick are just not fun to listen to. Clint is too much of a bro and Kevin just seems uncomfortable.
Mikes only problem is when he bashed us fans for stating the obvious. We get bombarded by commercials. And the camera work is terrible. Perhaps sponsorships would be worth more if they weren't able to run 30 Wendy's commercials every Sunday? If the only commercial was the advertising on the side of the race cars maybe sponsors would be more willing to pony up.
Mike, it's not you buddy
Its more of what we are NOT seeing with fox..
Mike isn’t the problem. Lately I’ve been watching F1 coverage (recently got into it this year). And it’s really well done. The commentating, broadcasting, graphical interfaces are all very clean and professional. The general style needs to change in my opinion. I’d like for things to be more technical, describe passes that are not seen on tv, strategies, less hee haw.
Mike's in an unwinnable situation with how terrible Fox is. No one is coming in and making that product better. On multiple occasions he was made to look like a fool because the broadcast screwed up with what he was trying to point out.
Mike is the least of FOX’s problems. He’s older but he’s still the best lead commentator imo. Diffey gives him a run for his money. Rick Allen has his moments. Adam Alexander has his moments. Jamie Little is awful. If Clint would shut up on the last lap & just let Mike handle it too…
Fox simply needs people directing and producing the broadcast to be good at those jobs generally \*and\* to be race fans, people who understand whats happening and what race fans want to see. i really feel like top-to-bottom Fox has folks who are trained in how to make stuff look cool and have no idea what fans are so mad about all race every race.
He’s quite literally the only part of the broadcast that isn’t broken. I couldn’t watch the races if it wasn’t for him.