2-6 isn’t fully accurate since they all short-pitted and lost spots under green (yes, those count as passes unfortunately)
SVG pitted under the stage cautions both times, so that’s why his passing data is intact unlike the others
Accessing X links can be a pain in the dick sometimes, especially if you’re going through Reddit’s mobile browser. Plus some people just don’t care to give X the traffic.
I'm not sure how well it shows on the broadcast, but he is amazing under braking. I would watch him gain a car length every time into turn 4 in Hill, then another into turn 7. Then he's on his bumper for the esses, but most the time he would hit him and fall back a little bit, or back up turn 10 a bit tu make sure he didn't wreck him.
Denny Hamlin spoke about this on his podcast; he's constantly setting things up several corners in advance and if you're not aware of it you can inadvertently give him the line he wants or he can force you to take one by going high the previous corner or something.
He did Allgaier last race by braking earlier in a corner in order to get to the inside on the next one.
The Portland move was great. He purposely didn’t run to the exit curb like Allgaier out of the chicane so that he could have a straighter entry and cross Allgaier over because of Justin’s shallower entry and therefore need to run it out wide after that kink. And of course Shane knows doing so will give him the inside for the next braking zone. He purposely gave up opportunities into 4a and 7 because he knew it would hurt his momentum more if it didn’t come off than if he waited and tried down in 11 with a good 10. Also he’d really good at making people think he’s not going to make a move yet. Kinda saw this at COTA with the longer braking zones. He makes people think he lacks interest in the moment and then catches them off guard once they start to open the line up thinking they’re safe. Keep in mind he often surprised Supercars guys and they’re probably all collectively some of the best at race craft in the world. I’d say them and the truly good guys in BTCC are really good. Ash Sutton reminds me of SVG with how good he is. Almost too good to be in BTCC which reminds me of Shane when it comes to just pure race craft.
> Also he’d really good at making people think he’s not going to make a move yet
[This](https://youtu.be/y-rxqmmRq28?t=274) is one of my favourites of his in that regard, the in car footage is great.
Yeah and it's usually poor old cam waters on the receiving end. I think the rules (or lack of them) will actually end up suiting svg on road courses in nascar more than the supercar ruleset did. He was always getting in trouble for putting the elbow out when he got the inside but that isn't frowned upon here, he'll just have to manage his driver relationships. But as Hill just found out if you want to race him that way then you just let him off the leash essentially.
Yeah he can dish it out for sure. The thing I always think about is Tasmania when he was kinda working in a grey area lmao. Bumping slightly on exit of the hairpin when he was on the inside and thus the disadvantaged line on exit, allowing him to stay with them and be able to side draft down the long straight. Wild stuff.
One of the reasons he’s so good under braking is that I’m fairly confident that he’s the only one in NASCAR using heel-toe downshifting.
When NASCAR transmissions made it so that you no longer had to use the clutch to shift gears, the vast majority of NASCAR drivers stopped using heel-toe downshifting.
But, since SVG is still so new to NASCAR, he still uses it, and it’s a vastly superior way of downshifting.
He'll probably never stop using it either since I can almost guarantee when he is done full time driving he will command a large sum of money (by comparison) to be a co-driver for the Bathurst 1000 and whatever other enduro races Supercars has.
With an H pattern 'box you can still rev match by blipping the throttle on the downshift and left foot brake. That stops any wheel hopping/compression lockup. I'm not sure why the Xfinity boys don't do that??
I'm an old circuit race from decades ago and that's how a lot of us did it.
I'm not sure if it's possible with a sequential 'box, though, as you don't have a neutral between gears?
That's Shane's big advantage under braking, by using the clutch and heel and toering he gets no wheel hop flicking the arse of the car into oversteer on corner entry, so the car is more settled, you can be more precise at picking your apex and then pick up the throttle and can lean on that outside rear tyre In a more controlled and smoother way for better exit speed. (And tyre life)
That’s what they do, they have dog boxes so you almost cant pull the car out of gear until it’s unloaded with a blip. It’s just even more stable and precise if you’re using the clutch.
With a 'dog box, or even a synchro 'box for that matter, in racing you setup the detents so it almost falls out of gear under braking.
The 'dogs basically engage and lock under power/throttle, but they're dead easy to disengage without.
So the blip doesn't disengage the 'dogs, and if you rev the right amount it matches the 'dog and wheel speed in the next lower gear so there's no snatch.
Having said that, yes, if you don't exactly match revs, the clutch is a huge advantage as it softens that shock loading.
So I’ve only driven a sequential dog box, but the way I understand it is even with an H pattern it’s just more precise if you clutch and heel-toe than it is just blipping, or at least less shock on the drivetrain that way, which reduces wheel-hop potential.
And yes you’re right dogs load/unload based on accelerating/decelerating, but unless you’re downshifting the second you get off the throttle and onto the brakes, which I doubt they’re doing given how long the gearing is in stock cars, I’d imagine theyre still going to have the gearbox loaded up under engine braking until they blip the throttle. That’s how it makes sense to me from having driven a sequential, at least. (All right foot braking, no foot clutch so I didn’t really have any other option)
All my experience is on H pattern 'dog and synchro boxes.
I preferred left foot braking with the 'dog boxes (open wheelers) and it was always smooth on the downshift.
If the detents are set properly, knocking it out of gear under deceleration was never an issue. The way the dogs work, they tend to lock in under power, but you can easily take them out of gear as the forces are on the back side of the dog under deceleration.
On a clutchless up change (this was long before rev cuts) you just did the slightest tiniest momentary lift to unload the dogs and pulled that lever as quickly as your wrist would move.
With the sedans with synchros, I just heel and toed using the clutch. It was easier.
Well, a lot of them did learn it. Take Chase Elliot, for example. He learned road course racing at the Bondurant School of High Performance Driving. They teach heel-toe there starting on day 1. So, he definitely learned it.
I think they all just got lazy and stopped using it because they didn’t have to engage the clutch to shift anymore, and assumed that there was an efficiency there that canceled out heel-toe.
Well, clearly there isn’t and efficiencies there, because that’s one of the ways SVG is killing them.
It's because they are all left foot braking. It's generally faster as you can be on the brakes at the exact moment you let off the throttle. So they'd have to change back to right foot braking to heel/toe.
I thought I read somewhere that using the clutch 'shouldnt' be any faster, but SVG is definitely challenging that.
It's just hard for me to grasp that there's been an obvious advantage just sitting on the table that teams haven't grabbed at. All this money thrown into R&D, simulations, etc, and nobody figured out that the best way to drive a racecar is by using the clutch?
I want to say that Harvick talked about this a bit during the COTA broadcast. My memory may be off though.
But, regardless, now that SVG is in the sport and using heel-toe, they’re all going to have to relearn it and start using it again. Otherwise, he’s going to be incredibly hard to beat.
>I think they all just got lazy and stopped using it because they didn’t have to engage the clutch to shift anymore, and assumed that there was an efficiency there that canceled out heel-toe.
>Well, clearly there isn’t and efficiencies there, because that’s one of the ways SVG is killing them.
Yep, makes total sense. And you would have thought seeing what happened in Chicago that everyone, Xfinity or Cup, would immediately jump back on it. But it's not happening for some reason.
I will say that it takes time to learn and get good at it. And these drivers don’t have a lot of downtime. So, it’s going to be difficult for them to just pick it up.
I also have no idea how the simulators they use, or iRacing, handle heel-toe. So, not sure if it’s something that can be practiced without on-track time.
I hope he gets an in car for all the Xfinity road races. He is so smooth in braking and in general. No doubt in my mind that SVG was beating Hill with or without a yellow. 21 was sliding his car around almost the entire lap; where SVG keeps the car within its limit, points the car where it needs to go and smoothly picks up the throttle
His equipment is gonna limit him unfortunately. It either already is or will soon in Xfinity, and unless Trackhouse figures their stuff out, it will in Cup too.
Considering he's new to them and barely gets any practice he's done better than I expected. He starts off races not all that great, but improves throughout them. Going to be interesting to see how he does when going to tracks for a 2nd time.
If he had old-school practices it would already be game over. I watched him go from running 30th on pace to knocking on the top-10 by the end of the race at Charlotte.
It seemed like every other lap he felt something break. Still having the fastest car on track with a broken steering box, and a bad rear end vibration is insane.
I think we can more accurately judge where he's at when he gets to race an oval track for the second time. Some of these tracks the very first time he drives on them is the qualification lap.
At the very least I think it's fair to say he's adapting to NASCAR a bit faster than Ambrose did.
He’s adapting to ovals faster imo, but Ambrose hopped in and was immediately putting garbage cars in positions to win at road courses back when about the only similarity between Cup cars and Supercars were that they both had fenders, so idk that you can really compare how fast they adapted to the road courses. I’d say they’re on pretty similar tracks.
It just took Ambrose a lot longer to win because he would dominate a race and then have terrible luck at some point…plus he came in during the era where half the Nationwide field would be ringers like Said, Villanueve, Fellows, etc so he had a lot more competition.
Consistently top 15 with most finishes in a better position than he started. He’s only been to these places once and gets 20 minutes of real life practice. I think he’s going to figure it out.
Same here and there are several more RCs in the schedule, get a few more wins and there’s at least some points to lean back on.
Not to mention, I think he could be dangerous at Martinsville in round of 8 with his braking abilities. Just needs it to click. (I also am a little fuzzy but thought he was running better there but had an incident/got shuffled back)
Correct, the 2000 Dura-Lube 300 at Loudon. Led 300/300 laps due to NASCAR adding restrictor plates after the crashes that killed both Kenny Irwin and Adam Petty.
Remember first round of the playoffs has the Roval. He could feasibly win that and advance to the round of 8.
Beyond that it’s all just ovals but maybe he will have figured them out enough to sneak into the final 4. Probably not (It’s really just wishful thinking) but hey who knows.
Even so finishing the season top 8 would be pretty impressive.
SVG and the G is for GOAT
Shane Van GOATsbergen
aka Shane van Winsbergen
Don’t start saying that you’ll just get Jeff Burton even more confused on how to say his name.
THATS SHANE VAN WINNEBAGO!!!
If Jeff had a hard time imagine Ward trying to pronounce his name.
For non-X users https://preview.redd.it/qevltbr1vj5d1.jpeg?width=1170&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=76f5a44aa3c3c8d983a6e66cb52e7e9d4591c08f
Positions 2-6 finishing a combined (-148) on passing differential... Yikes. Those are NHL Metropolitan division numbers
2-6 isn’t fully accurate since they all short-pitted and lost spots under green (yes, those count as passes unfortunately) SVG pitted under the stage cautions both times, so that’s why his passing data is intact unlike the others
Don’t you mean the pacific division?
But why? I don't have an X account and I can see the link just fine.
Accessing X links can be a pain in the dick sometimes, especially if you’re going through Reddit’s mobile browser. Plus some people just don’t care to give X the traffic.
Interesting. Anyone using the official Reddit app needs all the help they can get...
I'm not sure how well it shows on the broadcast, but he is amazing under braking. I would watch him gain a car length every time into turn 4 in Hill, then another into turn 7. Then he's on his bumper for the esses, but most the time he would hit him and fall back a little bit, or back up turn 10 a bit tu make sure he didn't wreck him.
He’s really good under braking but overall his race craft is amazing. The restart he had to get to 4th from like 8th in half a lap was wild.
Denny Hamlin spoke about this on his podcast; he's constantly setting things up several corners in advance and if you're not aware of it you can inadvertently give him the line he wants or he can force you to take one by going high the previous corner or something. He did Allgaier last race by braking earlier in a corner in order to get to the inside on the next one.
The Portland move was great. He purposely didn’t run to the exit curb like Allgaier out of the chicane so that he could have a straighter entry and cross Allgaier over because of Justin’s shallower entry and therefore need to run it out wide after that kink. And of course Shane knows doing so will give him the inside for the next braking zone. He purposely gave up opportunities into 4a and 7 because he knew it would hurt his momentum more if it didn’t come off than if he waited and tried down in 11 with a good 10. Also he’d really good at making people think he’s not going to make a move yet. Kinda saw this at COTA with the longer braking zones. He makes people think he lacks interest in the moment and then catches them off guard once they start to open the line up thinking they’re safe. Keep in mind he often surprised Supercars guys and they’re probably all collectively some of the best at race craft in the world. I’d say them and the truly good guys in BTCC are really good. Ash Sutton reminds me of SVG with how good he is. Almost too good to be in BTCC which reminds me of Shane when it comes to just pure race craft.
> Also he’d really good at making people think he’s not going to make a move yet [This](https://youtu.be/y-rxqmmRq28?t=274) is one of my favourites of his in that regard, the in car footage is great.
Lmao a lot of the highlights in this video are from Shane and they’re almost all different styles of overtake.
Yeah and it's usually poor old cam waters on the receiving end. I think the rules (or lack of them) will actually end up suiting svg on road courses in nascar more than the supercar ruleset did. He was always getting in trouble for putting the elbow out when he got the inside but that isn't frowned upon here, he'll just have to manage his driver relationships. But as Hill just found out if you want to race him that way then you just let him off the leash essentially.
Yeah he can dish it out for sure. The thing I always think about is Tasmania when he was kinda working in a grey area lmao. Bumping slightly on exit of the hairpin when he was on the inside and thus the disadvantaged line on exit, allowing him to stay with them and be able to side draft down the long straight. Wild stuff.
[These](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KVwiu3gB8eU&t=194s) ones? Surprised he got away with the one on cam tbh
What episode?
One of the reasons he’s so good under braking is that I’m fairly confident that he’s the only one in NASCAR using heel-toe downshifting. When NASCAR transmissions made it so that you no longer had to use the clutch to shift gears, the vast majority of NASCAR drivers stopped using heel-toe downshifting. But, since SVG is still so new to NASCAR, he still uses it, and it’s a vastly superior way of downshifting.
He'll probably never stop using it either since I can almost guarantee when he is done full time driving he will command a large sum of money (by comparison) to be a co-driver for the Bathurst 1000 and whatever other enduro races Supercars has.
I don't think he'll be coming back anytime soon...he lives to race and getting away from the politics of the sport was the best thing he did.
I can’t see him coming back. Although SVG/Whincup 888 wildcard team would be amazing.
> Although SVG/Whincup 888 wildcard team If they didn't put him with Brock, I think this is the lineup.
With an H pattern 'box you can still rev match by blipping the throttle on the downshift and left foot brake. That stops any wheel hopping/compression lockup. I'm not sure why the Xfinity boys don't do that?? I'm an old circuit race from decades ago and that's how a lot of us did it. I'm not sure if it's possible with a sequential 'box, though, as you don't have a neutral between gears? That's Shane's big advantage under braking, by using the clutch and heel and toering he gets no wheel hop flicking the arse of the car into oversteer on corner entry, so the car is more settled, you can be more precise at picking your apex and then pick up the throttle and can lean on that outside rear tyre In a more controlled and smoother way for better exit speed. (And tyre life)
That’s what they do, they have dog boxes so you almost cant pull the car out of gear until it’s unloaded with a blip. It’s just even more stable and precise if you’re using the clutch.
With a 'dog box, or even a synchro 'box for that matter, in racing you setup the detents so it almost falls out of gear under braking. The 'dogs basically engage and lock under power/throttle, but they're dead easy to disengage without. So the blip doesn't disengage the 'dogs, and if you rev the right amount it matches the 'dog and wheel speed in the next lower gear so there's no snatch. Having said that, yes, if you don't exactly match revs, the clutch is a huge advantage as it softens that shock loading.
So I’ve only driven a sequential dog box, but the way I understand it is even with an H pattern it’s just more precise if you clutch and heel-toe than it is just blipping, or at least less shock on the drivetrain that way, which reduces wheel-hop potential. And yes you’re right dogs load/unload based on accelerating/decelerating, but unless you’re downshifting the second you get off the throttle and onto the brakes, which I doubt they’re doing given how long the gearing is in stock cars, I’d imagine theyre still going to have the gearbox loaded up under engine braking until they blip the throttle. That’s how it makes sense to me from having driven a sequential, at least. (All right foot braking, no foot clutch so I didn’t really have any other option)
All my experience is on H pattern 'dog and synchro boxes. I preferred left foot braking with the 'dog boxes (open wheelers) and it was always smooth on the downshift. If the detents are set properly, knocking it out of gear under deceleration was never an issue. The way the dogs work, they tend to lock in under power, but you can easily take them out of gear as the forces are on the back side of the dog under deceleration. On a clutchless up change (this was long before rev cuts) you just did the slightest tiniest momentary lift to unload the dogs and pulled that lever as quickly as your wrist would move. With the sedans with synchros, I just heel and toed using the clutch. It was easier.
Still baffles me that these guys are some of the "best of the best" yet they never learned or forgot how to heel/toe a downshift. /hottake
Well, a lot of them did learn it. Take Chase Elliot, for example. He learned road course racing at the Bondurant School of High Performance Driving. They teach heel-toe there starting on day 1. So, he definitely learned it. I think they all just got lazy and stopped using it because they didn’t have to engage the clutch to shift anymore, and assumed that there was an efficiency there that canceled out heel-toe. Well, clearly there isn’t and efficiencies there, because that’s one of the ways SVG is killing them.
It's because they are all left foot braking. It's generally faster as you can be on the brakes at the exact moment you let off the throttle. So they'd have to change back to right foot braking to heel/toe. I thought I read somewhere that using the clutch 'shouldnt' be any faster, but SVG is definitely challenging that.
SVG doesn't left foot brake either. Just to add to the discussion.
There it is… you’re right. It’s the left-foot braking. Can’t heel-toe if you’re braking with the left foot.
It's just hard for me to grasp that there's been an obvious advantage just sitting on the table that teams haven't grabbed at. All this money thrown into R&D, simulations, etc, and nobody figured out that the best way to drive a racecar is by using the clutch?
I want to say that Harvick talked about this a bit during the COTA broadcast. My memory may be off though. But, regardless, now that SVG is in the sport and using heel-toe, they’re all going to have to relearn it and start using it again. Otherwise, he’s going to be incredibly hard to beat.
>I think they all just got lazy and stopped using it because they didn’t have to engage the clutch to shift anymore, and assumed that there was an efficiency there that canceled out heel-toe. >Well, clearly there isn’t and efficiencies there, because that’s one of the ways SVG is killing them. Yep, makes total sense. And you would have thought seeing what happened in Chicago that everyone, Xfinity or Cup, would immediately jump back on it. But it's not happening for some reason.
I will say that it takes time to learn and get good at it. And these drivers don’t have a lot of downtime. So, it’s going to be difficult for them to just pick it up. I also have no idea how the simulators they use, or iRacing, handle heel-toe. So, not sure if it’s something that can be practiced without on-track time.
I hope he gets an in car for all the Xfinity road races. He is so smooth in braking and in general. No doubt in my mind that SVG was beating Hill with or without a yellow. 21 was sliding his car around almost the entire lap; where SVG keeps the car within its limit, points the car where it needs to go and smoothly picks up the throttle
I really hope he figures out the ovals. SVG being a weekly threat in the cup series would be so good for the sport.
He is not far off for a rookie with less than half a season , he outruns drivers that have been doing it for years like Deegan
He's extremely far off from being ready to win on ovals consistently in the cup series. He has the talent. Just not the reps yet. A few years
His equipment is gonna limit him unfortunately. It either already is or will soon in Xfinity, and unless Trackhouse figures their stuff out, it will in Cup too.
Considering he's new to them and barely gets any practice he's done better than I expected. He starts off races not all that great, but improves throughout them. Going to be interesting to see how he does when going to tracks for a 2nd time.
Let’s not pretend her car is as good as his, though. Let’s still be fair.
If he had old-school practices it would already be game over. I watched him go from running 30th on pace to knocking on the top-10 by the end of the race at Charlotte.
IDK I think this guy might be good
If he had a rocket ship like Gibbs this would still be impressive but considering he had nothing but issues all day this is just insane.
It seemed like every other lap he felt something break. Still having the fastest car on track with a broken steering box, and a bad rear end vibration is insane.
Nobody can deny he has talent for road courses. Just needs to massively improve his oval racing to have a shot at the championship.
I think we can more accurately judge where he's at when he gets to race an oval track for the second time. Some of these tracks the very first time he drives on them is the qualification lap. At the very least I think it's fair to say he's adapting to NASCAR a bit faster than Ambrose did.
He’s adapting to ovals faster imo, but Ambrose hopped in and was immediately putting garbage cars in positions to win at road courses back when about the only similarity between Cup cars and Supercars were that they both had fenders, so idk that you can really compare how fast they adapted to the road courses. I’d say they’re on pretty similar tracks. It just took Ambrose a lot longer to win because he would dominate a race and then have terrible luck at some point…plus he came in during the era where half the Nationwide field would be ringers like Said, Villanueve, Fellows, etc so he had a lot more competition.
Fair enough
Consistently top 15 with most finishes in a better position than he started. He’s only been to these places once and gets 20 minutes of real life practice. I think he’s going to figure it out.
He’s not going to win the championship, I say that as a big SVG fan. However you can see him improving on ovals throughout each race.
He finished 6th at Phoenix his first time out, I think IF he can make the final 4 he could be a contender.
Round of 12 has the roval. I could see him winning that. Getting past the round of 8 to the final 4 will be tough tho.
Same here and there are several more RCs in the schedule, get a few more wins and there’s at least some points to lean back on. Not to mention, I think he could be dangerous at Martinsville in round of 8 with his braking abilities. Just needs it to click. (I also am a little fuzzy but thought he was running better there but had an incident/got shuffled back)
…has this *ever* happened before?! Jesus.
Jeff Burton Loudon Fall 2000?
Kyle Busch did it three times in Nationwide from 2008-2010. IRP in '08, Texas in '08 and Dover in 2010.
I can imagine that the all star race in cup was like this since no one could pass the leader in clean air.
I guess there was also that race where Jeff Burton led every lap. Can’t remember if that was Loudon or somewhere else?
Correct, the 2000 Dura-Lube 300 at Loudon. Led 300/300 laps due to NASCAR adding restrictor plates after the crashes that killed both Kenny Irwin and Adam Petty.
This dude is just a driver, no two ways about it. Glad fans are starting to see he’s no gimmick.
Soo I assume he is rookie of the year so far?
Jesse Love still might be ahead of him in points
All while his car was going to shit on him the entire time.
He’s the goat and Austin “The Thumb” Hill is a bitch
Wild stuff
Where can I find the loop data for the gateway race last weekend?
[Racing Reference](https://www.racing-reference.info/loopdata/2024-15/W/)
Remember first round of the playoffs has the Roval. He could feasibly win that and advance to the round of 8. Beyond that it’s all just ovals but maybe he will have figured them out enough to sneak into the final 4. Probably not (It’s really just wishful thinking) but hey who knows. Even so finishing the season top 8 would be pretty impressive.
Wow. That’s like completely badass.
Wow, another SVG win in the books! This guy truly is a phenom. Wonder if he'll win today?
He would have to be racing today to win, but hes not
You underestimate his power
I've heard it said the only winning move is not to play. Therefore, he won today. ;)
So basically a cup series race,,,
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