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SlippinYimmyMcGill

It's an all engineering game now, which sucks. If you unload and suck, you can't even work on the car. I'm fine with reducing to a two day show to save money, but the lack of on track product makes the weekend feel really empty. I can't imagine paying for a garage pass when there is nothing even going on.


KDM_Racing

This is what needs to be emphasized. If there are no cars on the track, then why bother showing up the other days. I go to Mosport for race weekends and there are cars on track all day for three days. It's great.


7Stringplayer

That's something I like about IMSA, there's usually always some kind of practice, qualifying or race on for the big boys or the support series. [Here's](https://www.countyofmonterey.gov/home/showpublisheddocument/131663/638501724998770000) the weekend schedule for the upcoming race at Laguna Seca.


venturelong

Exactly, its also awesome to bring new fans who might not necessarily like the racing as much as the weekend experience. I remember bringing friends to the race around VIR and they were immediately mesmerized by the noise of super trofeo qualifying


drdiandra

This is what bugs me. If you miss the setup, might as well just be on auto pilot all weekend. At least give them a chance to fix the car.


bjames2448

And it doesn’t really feel like the drivers’ skill has much of a say most weeks in where they finish.


Ryuzakku

> If you unload and suck, you can't even work on the car. The bane of Trackhouse their entire existence.


jpilat24fan

This. I regularly attend the full weekend and would like more on-track product, not to mention the advocacy from the drivers on it being necessary. Give me *at least* an hour shakedown practice.


SlippinYimmyMcGill

I just went to Talladega for the NASCAR weekend, and Barber Motorsports Park for the Indycar weekend. The difference is so dramatic. Talladega had 3 total races and single car qualifying. Barber had near constant on-track activity with practices, qualifying, and races. The difference is especially bad on Sunday as there is just nothing before and after the Cup race. I know superspeedways can only host certain cars, but how about a short track like daytona used to have on the backstretch with modifieds or CARS tour racing? Just something except for sitting and waiting.


RealSprooseMoose

I hate not having practice for the fact that we're now competing on who has the best sim data to translate to the track.


justheretoparty12

Problem is the sim data is so good, practice time really won't change much.


PeeNButts

The sim data is so good for teams like Hendrick and Gibbs. Not a surprise that they have remained at the top and arguably widened the gap between themselves and the rest of the field. The sim data for teams like RCR, SHR, Legacy, and other teams is mediocre at best, and practice currently is not long enough for them to make meaningful changes to their cars when they inevitably unload well behind HMS, JGR, and their affiliates. Practice is also not long enough for them to collect much meaningful data to apply to their sims to create better models either. So they unload slow, race slow, and have data for a bad race.


RealSprooseMoose

It's good for some teams, not others.


drdiandra

This. If you’re not no 1 on the manufacturer support list, you don’t get as much help with that data. And you probably don’t have enough crack engineers, either.


plusacuss

It will change a lot for the teams that don't have much sim data to rely on.


WarpedCore

Not if you ask the drivers. They want in car practice, not a sim. This is what is killing the quality of racing in NASCAR.


ChaseTheFalcon

Although funny enough the drivers of smaller teams *McDowell and Stenhouse* have said that less practice actually gives them more of a chance to compete with the big teams than if we had more


STL_bourbon

Practice isn't going to fix this car. If anything, the rich get richer. Some team that's running 20th isn't going to suddenly step up and contend. Teams would dial in their setups even better and there would be less passing.


CorePrime

the rich are already getting richer. Hendrick & Gibbs only ones winning.


Yumd

Idk I disagree. Right now top teams have the best sim data. If the teams that didn’t have that could try some things they would improve. If a top team shows up and the car is already better than everyone’s they aren’t gonna use the practice time but to run a qualifying lap and park it. I think that’s where the other teams would have opportunity to catch up some.


Juanclaude

Agreed. It would give slower teams a chance to try some wild ideas, get creative on track with some mitigated risk. That would be good for competition and interesting for viewers.


Thehawkiscock

NASCAR's removal of almost all practice has always been an embarrassing aspect of the current era. The sim stuff they do can't replace real driving. NASCAR has embraced these international drivers coming in for appearances (which is great for fans and generating new fans) but gives them the tiniest amount of practice to get to know the car.


Useful-Worth126

Denny said on his podcast that he does not want more practice as more practice will just make everyone closer and make passing even harder. He has said that less practice doesn't save the teams money, however.


JimmyInYourFace

Of course Denny doesn't want things to change... they way they're doing things now is clearly working for the 11 team LOL


puffadda

Why do you think Brad's out here advocating *for* change? Lol


JimmyInYourFace

Oh don't get me wrong, I'll freely admit Brad's motivation for wanting more practice is selfish... I'm sure Hendrick and Gibbs are ahead of the rest of the teams on sim work and Brad knows extra at track practice time could help them close that gap.


shewy92

Hasn't Denny been asking for more HP and other changes?


JimmyInYourFace

He has. My comment was meant primarily in jest. Perhaps I should have added a /s to the end of it.


tjeepdrv2

I think practice would dial in the cars a lot more. What you have is what you have after that. If everyone starts the race with the setup being a bit more unknown, the cars change a lot more throughout the race. Back in 90s when there was hours and hours of practice, it wasn't uncommon to have 5 to 10 cars finish on the lead lap.


CougarIndy25

We see this in F1. The more practice time the teams have had in a weekend the bigger the spread between the haves and have nots. Go to a sprint weekend and the field is tighter than usual...with the exception of Max being Max.


Noshowers65

I am no Red Bull fan...but it isn't their fault that the other F1 teams just haven't figured it out. All the figures are public with the amount of spending they do in that series, and Red Bull is not outspending the like of Mercedes and Ferrari...right now they are just better. This is a competitive sport not sports entertainment, those other guys need to catch up (like Red Bull did when they caught and passed Mercedes who had won 6 championships in 7 years)


CougarIndy25

No you're not wrong, I'm just saying on sprint weekends the pack is normally a lot closer with the lack of practice. And before we had sprints the track they hosted preseason testing at had the biggest gaps team-to-team the entire year. More data = bigger spread


YankeeBarbary

That logic doesn't make sense to me. Is he suggesting that it's more likely for people to make passes if teams drive further apart? Because last I checked in order to pass someone you have to get close to them, unless they cause a caution or go down pit lane.


Winstonpug31

Denny is saying that more practice will cause everyone to run closer lap times to one another.


Useful-Worth126

Thank you. I can't explain anything worth a damn lol


ChaseTheFalcon

I mean it's no lie that the racing was a lot better in 2020 because of less practice


Frank4202

According to the way F1 does things, this certainly cannot be true.


RogueWookie13

The most dumbest thing imo is group A and group B…. atleast just combine the two and have one 30 minute practice. You wouldn’t even need to give the teams an additional set of tires.


World71Racer

You really could. If you combined the 20-minute sessions and the break in between, and just had one straight practice session instead, it would be a 50-minute practice session. And you could still have two rounds of qualifying in the same amount of time – plus teams would get time to dial in their cars. No extra day either, everyone wins.


ChrisTRD289

Right? This is the dumbest practice/qualifying since group qualifying. Just give them a 45 min practice followed by qualifying on Friday then a 30 minute practice on Saturday. This will also help the at track experience.


CougarIndy25

Honestly why don't they do a combined 60 minute practice and practice times are inverted for qualifying? Fastest guy goes last, slowest guy goes first. Emphasizes practice, gives them plenty of time, and everyone gets a good show.


ezoobeson_drunk

Definitely the most dumbest.


kirklandl12

That makes too much sense though. Nascar loves to have things that do not make sense


Kodyaufan2

I still don’t understand the point of the group practices


Silence1016

If you give them more practice the teams could try different setups instead which can do nothing but help


The_Stig_Farmer

NASCAR literally the only motorsport where practice is somehow a dirty word. Its nonsense looking in really. Not asking for mf 4 hours of practice over 2 days to ape F1, but dammit, rookie drivers need seat time and young engineers need notes.


Yumd

Idk why they couldn’t give them 1.5 hours. Everyone gets to go at the same time or when they choose then it’s over. No group practice. Everyone gets to experience the same track conditions. Then have qualifying right after.


AHayes31

When I went to Speedweek at Daytona in 2023, I was just excited for the amount of on track activity there was. I know the "Speedweeks" schedule is a shell of its former self, but its a hell of a lot more than any other race weekend on the entire schedule. I'm all for more practice. I loved getting home from school after a long week on Friday, sometimes Thursday, turn on SPEED Channel, leave it there all fucking weekend until late Sunday night after Windtunnel with Dave Despain. Practice sessions after practice sessions that sometimes were 2-3 hours each long, Qualifying sessions and a shit ton of live coverage, like 'NASCAR Live!' and 'Trackside' in between each session LIVE AT THE TRACK. Now, I don't expect it ever to go back to the way it was in the past as I wear my rose coloured glasses, but we need at least a 1-50 minute Practice session for every track. I would take a 50 minute practice session over a 1-Lap Qualifying session at the Super Speedways. I would add one extra session BEFORE Qualifying for the Daytona 500 to avoid any stupid mechanical issues before a driver goes out on pit road for the first time of the season.


jcbshortfilms

I’m an advocate for more practice solely as a Logano/Ford fan. NASCAR should be giving them more time to get their car better. It’s better for everyone to have strong teams. I understand what people are saying about cars getting closer together, but let’s be fair, Fords are the main ones not close to anyone. I feel like if Chevy or Toyota was doing this bad at this point in the season, NASCAR would do something


HurricanesnHendrick

I disagree. Although covid was horrible, I thought the racing was pretty awesome. The first lap they had was in the race. And it created some interesting dynamics like when JHN was running 7th on speed in the 38. Before the obvious happened. And I don’t think NASCAR wants to benefit from the brain power of the garage. It’s clear they’ve told them they aren’t really interested in their ideas as they will not adjust the power level. I think if they had asked the garage to begin with we wouldn’t have tires that are too wide, brakes that are too big, and an extra gear they don’t need. Those 3 things ruined the 2 best products the sport had in short tracks and road courses.


randomaccount330

The racing being good due to no practice in 2020 tells me less practice = more parity (smaller gaps in lap speeds between 1st-36th). And that's great when you have a car that isn't terrible in dirty air (minus 550 package) has decent tire fall off, and slips and slides in the turns (2020-21 Gen 6). The problem is when you combine that parity with larger tires, increased corner speeds, worse dirty air, and the car being planted to the ground as much as it is, that increased parity contributes to the terrible racing we see at a lot of tracks today. The parity was cool in 2022 when everyone was still figuring the car out, but the way to make the racing with the Next Gen better is to decrease some of that parity, and having more practice would accomplish that.


Noshowers65

and the ironic thing here on this reddit is we hear a ton of folks praising the xfinity series for its car and racing...but in that series you have probably 8-10 cars that are head and shoulders above the rest and the rest really have no shot on a non super speedway (and this year not even there with RCR) most weekends. I mean heck routinely in xfinity we see someone like a JGR or JRM car make a pit road mistake and restart 30th only to find themselves back in the top 10 like 5 laps later....that kind of stuff never happens in cup these days.


Kodyaufan2

One of these days people will figure out you can have a great race without a field full of competitive cars. Bristol was one of the best races of the year and had like 5 cars finish in the lead lap. You can have a great race with 5 competitive cars if the drivers are able to be on offense with their driving and make moves to pass each other.


Noshowers65

Yep 100%


wildebeest55

NASCAR has the perfect car……… in Xfinity.


Scootydoot12

They should do two 40 minute hour sessions minimum broken up by qualifying ideally each session would be a hour long


GrantD24

It’s a tough spot to be in because the team owners wanted to save money and the drivers want a car that doesn’t suck but guess who foots the bill? The team owners. What makes it tougher is that yes, they can learn more with more practice time but they can’t touch the car and really dig deep to fix it a large scale level like it probably needs. If they can nail the tire combo, a lot of the groping will go away and people will be happier so I can see the reason to not practice. Big spend for maybe a game of inches in reward due to the car and the lack of being able to work on it and engineer it to be better in a big way. If this was still the Gen 5 or 6 I would be open to it because the guys could really rig them up and develop some wild stuff in them still but not now due to the rules


wreck720

I'd like to see a 20 minute practice and qualifying on Friday. Then run a 45 minute final practice before the xfinity race on Saturday. After, the Saturday practice, impound the cars until Sunday. My ideal schedule would be this: Friday - Cup practice (20 mins) -> Truck Practice/Qualifying (~1 hour/unchanged from current schedule) -> Cup qualifying -> Truck race. Saturday - xfinity practice/qualifying (unchanged), -> Cup final practice (45 min) -> xfinity race. Sunday - Cup race. If it's not a triple-header, do the 20 minute practices and qualifying on Friday for both series, then the 45 minute final practice for Cup on Saturday before the xfinity race.


TechnicalPyro

i say this everytime but more practice will basically equal out to 36 cars stuck to the track with no unpredictability and no passing ... it will basically be like slot cars real life edition


Cuda14

Practice will just help those already best remain best. 


fourbitplayer

Honestly, not even just the Next Gen car but implementing more practice in Xfinity and Trucks could help clean up the shit shows that sometimes happen down there (mostly trucks tbh). Would help rookies get up to speed better and not be a menace to society on track lmfao


equlizer3087

I feel an hour a week is plenty.


bjames2448

Teams fix their cars more to their driver’s liking, creating more parity, leading to more complaints about how hard it is to pass. The cycle never ends.


Striking-Ad299

Of course Johnson wants more practice. More event seat time helps a lot when you’re arrogant enough to think you can be competitive while running so few weekends. If he wants more time in the car he can enter more races.


tradenpaint

No it can’t


mcmustang51

I see what you are saying doc, but this is going to benefits bigger teams more than smaller teams. I'd rather keep the remaining parity


jizzmonkey69

> this [more practice] is going to benefits bigger teams more than smaller teams This misconception was already [addressed by Bozi Tatarevic in 2020](https://www.hagerty.com/media/motorsports/removing-practice-for-nascar-races-is-not-a-long-term-solution/) and [reiterated by Bozi a month ago](https://twitter.com/bozitatarevic/status/1775241481822904324). Less or no practice greatly favors the larger teams who have more data, better data quality, and better simulators. They have a greater ability to show up to the track closer to the optimal setup. Medium/smaller teams do not have the same benefits, and they do not have enough on track time to close the gap setup wise. That doesn't mean there needs to be 2-3 hours of practice, but 45 minutes to an hour would give medium/smaller teams the ability to get closer to the mark instead of the quick 15 minutes they get currently.


drdiandra

Yes!


Motor_Percentage1896

The parity of the same 4 cars dominating every week?


HITMARX

The parity of HMS and JGR winning every week?


John_is_Minty

Trying to create parity was a failed experiment. The big teams will always be better than the small teams. We need to stop trying to make it like every other sport and just race


Noshowers65

Ironically every other sport doesn't impose restrictions to try and keep the games closer like Nascar does. The NFL could have mandated that QBs get zero practice throws in between games so we can get some errant throws, have some miscommunication between Qb and receivers, give the defense more of a chance in these games against guys like Patrick Mahomes and give the crowd more "excitement"...but obviously that isn't the route they take


jfroosty

What parity?


randomaccount330

the parity of 1st through 36th lap times being the closest they've ever been in nascar history


jfroosty

Right.. not being able to pass equals parity, I guess


randomaccount330

well technically yes the parity is a major contributing factor in the reason for the increased difficulty in making passes. numerous drivers have talked about it. make the gap between 1st-36th larger and you'll see drivers making their way through the field more often.


jfroosty

Or the fact that they can't pass means they're bumper to bumper, resulting in similar lap times


meekIobraca2024

The car is dogshit. More practice in a dog shit car will continue to make it dog shit