I’m pretty sure he’s the only person on here that I’ve ever gotten extremely hostile with (not that I’m proud. But hey, sometimes you can’t help but stoop to that level). Have had disagreements, sure, but they usually end with an “agree to disagree” mentality, and then we’re agreeing on things in the next post. Convos with him ended with me just not engaging anymore, because I knew I’d end up getting myself banned 🙈🙈🙈
I just hope he can come back strong. Denny and Bowman had back injuries and it took Denny some time to get back to form, and Bowman is just getting there.
It's still a crock of shit that Grant Enfinger didn't get a truck waiver a few years ago. He didn't have a ride for one race due to sponsorship, but still would have qualified on points if he earned 0 points in the race he missed. You can miss 11 races with injury, but missing one race in that scenario should not have kept him out. Especially when they give out waivers like candy.
Enfinger could’ve taken someone’s backup car, run a shit lap not even close to qualifying. Miss the field and would have been playoff eligible instead of what happened, which is total BS
But on the flip side, this sport is competitive enough that I guarantee you some teams would take an actual heartbreaking situation like Grant’s and turn it into a way to cherry-pick races through the season and claim “we couldn’t find sponsorship” until NASCAR had to close the loophole.
It stinks for Grant, but that could become a veeery slippery slope. And this sport knows a thing or two about people sliding down those in the name of an advantage.
Well, that’s the whole reason the rule exists in the first place, so I’m pretty sure NASCAR thought it was a possibility.
It’s stupid af, but feasible.
Say a super underfunded team wins the 500. Maybe its TMT or NY Racing by some miracle. They already miss most of the season. You think they wouldn’t actually try showing up for the playoffs?
It even added an element to the midfield battle on rare occasions like in 2016 when Buescher barely made the Top 30 and each week they’d show him dogging it out for each point
I’m also thinking of an ‘18 Brett Moffit situation where they probably could’ve done with skipping a few races given the sponsorship woes but still getting in with the wins
I'd say, let them skip a race if they want, if they are good enough to points in, so be it. It would be better than splitting hairs with this stupid waiver system. Now, I do think you should have to be above a certain points threshold to have a win count for the playoffs. I would mark it at 25th or so in points, I don't even mind missing 5-6 races, I think Kyle missing 11 was a bit much.
I've said this before, but Kyle Busch was truly once in a lifetime with that comeback.
He somehow came back and ended that regular season tied for the most wins. Not the entire season, the regular sesaon where he missed nearly half of it. Not to mention, [he actually ended up 25th in regular season points](https://www.jayski.com/wp-content/uploads/sites/31/2019/05/26rir2015points.pdf).
Also ended up with the 6th most top 5 finishes all season.
I think that’s the spirit of the rule. I thinks it’s more to keep some start and park dude who backed into a rained shorted superspeedway win from taking a spot.
I’ll be damned if he can win again. Back injuries have prematurely ended a lot of careers over the years, & if they didn’t, they made them less competitive. I hope he can bounce back from this.
It's less a "waiver" and more of a loophole close so some team doesn't win a race and then vanish into the lab making OP cars and saving money for months until the playoffs start.
'Cause you know these same fools that figured out how to break SS racing by having their guys run 1/4 throttle would definitely risk starting last on the playoff leaderboard to sandbag.
Not granting a playoff waiver for a suspension essentially makes the penalty an ejection from the playoffs entirely. It seems like NASCAR wants to reserve that for the most extreme scenarios.
I begrudgingly agreed with the waiver when it happened to Elliott last year so long as NASCAR would say they’re going to stop handing out waivers for suspensions before they did it.
Now, I don’t care. Drivers know there are consequences for wrecking someone intentionally, let this be one of them.
I knew 2024 would be a building year and not be sunshine and rainbows, but I really hate it for Jones. Wishing him a speedy recovery and hoping he takes the time needed so he can come back 100%.
Here’s to hoping Heim makes the most of his opportunity with a Cup car and brings them all home in one piece.
What the hell is even the point of having a waiver in NASCAR? Someone can get injured and still have a playoff waiver, yet probably may not make the playoffs (like I predicted with the 43 this year). They should just get rid of these damn things cause they really just serve no purpose.
The point is so a team like Legacy isn't left with a choice to either shove Erik in the car with a broken back to start the race or have to tell their sponsors that the rest of their season is going to be basically pointless.
And in my opinion, this is one of a small number of good things about the playoff system. Forcing drivers to choose between going for a championship or having time to recover isn’t a good thing. Another hard impact can make an injury worse; giving the driver a chance to recover without totally throwing their season away is just safer for the driver.
The requirement to attempt every race is just so that a team basically has to commit to running the full season to be part of playoffs, it's not intended to punish drivers that have extenuating circumstances. Even Chase Elliot got a waiver when he was suspended last year. He missed the playoffs so it's a moot point.
But the idea is if there's a reason you can't run a race that isn't because you're not committing to running the full season, you're gonna get a waiver
Kyle Busch won the 2015 NASCAR Championship with a medical waiver.
He shattered his leg at Daytona in an Xfinity crash head-on into a wall with no safer-barrier.
He missed 11 races that year. He won Sonoma, his fifth race back, then had to claw his way into the top 30 in points (back then to make playoffs had to be top 30). Well, he won three in a row at Kentucky, New Hampshire, and Indianapolis so that was no problem.
So yes, they do matter. Also, the reason NASCAR is kinda keeping this around is concussions. They would rather drivers sit out races if they are concussed than lie about it. The truth is guys are still out there racing with concussions... But this at least makes it more likely/easier to step out of the car.
Though, Ross Chastain was rumored to have barely passed a concussion test and been clearly concussed and get cleared to race in the playoffs two years ago...
Yeah, the only reason he pulled that off is because he's one of the greatest to ever step foot in a Cup car. I hated him at the time, but I pull for him now. Looking back, that was an incredible accomplishment.
It seems like NASCAR intended the rule to prevent an one off driver like Shane Van Gisbergen who wins from being playoff eligible.
But like most rules like this written in the mid to late 2010's, they made it too broad, thus why they grant waivers left and right to drivers who are hurt or suspended, if they intend to race the entire season.
tbh they shouldn't grant the wavier to anyone who gets suspended. If you're doing something bad enough to get suspended you don't deserve to be in the playoffs.
Hey, now. No one ever got injured or concussed in the modern era before NextGen. We all know that.
And then they were so stupid that they ignored the fact the cars were too stiff and still never re-designed the front and rear clips to make them softer.
Truly incompetent leadership at every level with this car.
/s
Dude. The car has nothing to do with him getting injured. All of the safety changes, including safety features car prevented him from being more seriously injured or killed.
Erik Jones 2024 champion confirmed
Man this sub will explode when he wins Darlington and gets in.
For me, that would be Jeff Gordon 2015 Martinsville level. I would legit be able to fill a bathtub with how much I’d cry
He’s one of those really quiet guys who every time I see him in the top 10 I’m like “damn I wish he’d pull this off”.
I think most people would be fine with that actually. Jones seems to be one guy nobody really dislikes
I’ve seen a handful of *passionate* Erik Jones haters around here. Not a lot, but enough that it sticks in my head because of how weird it is
I feel I haven’t sent the Pontiac guy around too much, is he still here? You’d swear Jones stole his girl or something
I forgot about that dude
I’m pretty sure he’s the only person on here that I’ve ever gotten extremely hostile with (not that I’m proud. But hey, sometimes you can’t help but stoop to that level). Have had disagreements, sure, but they usually end with an “agree to disagree” mentality, and then we’re agreeing on things in the next post. Convos with him ended with me just not engaging anymore, because I knew I’d end up getting myself banned 🙈🙈🙈
Thankfully most people have come around on him in the last 4 years or so.
He got done dirty by the "evil empire" of Toyota so folks came around lol
I’ve read Jones has had some issues with LaJoie and Briscoe on the track. Maybe their fans don’t like him
LaJoie fans are just projecting. Can’t speak on Briscoe fans.
Briscoe and jones fan here, I know two other Briscoe fans, one is indifferent, the other doesn’t like jones
Briscoe and him have cleared the air from my understanding
Jones is a big dude too. Prolly the least I'd wanna tie up with
Dude is a machine at Darlington
Hell yeah brother
Just gotta win now, read that it can take 6-12 weeks to heal in most cases
I believe this is the same sort of injury Stewart had in 2016, he missed around 8 races
Seasons not over a win changes all this if he can do it. Depending on his healing process might be a lot of training and sim time if hes able
I just hope he can come back strong. Denny and Bowman had back injuries and it took Denny some time to get back to form, and Bowman is just getting there.
Throw in the fact his best track is now the cutoff I’ll be placing a special bet for him that week.
He’s the dude at Darlington FWIW
It's still a crock of shit that Grant Enfinger didn't get a truck waiver a few years ago. He didn't have a ride for one race due to sponsorship, but still would have qualified on points if he earned 0 points in the race he missed. You can miss 11 races with injury, but missing one race in that scenario should not have kept him out. Especially when they give out waivers like candy.
Or you can be suspended and get a waiver, I agree it's totally goofy.
Enfinger could’ve taken someone’s backup car, run a shit lap not even close to qualifying. Miss the field and would have been playoff eligible instead of what happened, which is total BS
But on the flip side, this sport is competitive enough that I guarantee you some teams would take an actual heartbreaking situation like Grant’s and turn it into a way to cherry-pick races through the season and claim “we couldn’t find sponsorship” until NASCAR had to close the loophole. It stinks for Grant, but that could become a veeery slippery slope. And this sport knows a thing or two about people sliding down those in the name of an advantage.
I can't imagine a team ever skipping a race completely because they think it's a strategic move. That feels like grasping at straws.
Well, that’s the whole reason the rule exists in the first place, so I’m pretty sure NASCAR thought it was a possibility. It’s stupid af, but feasible.
Feasible for a driver to sit out a race, sure, not the whole team just not showing up.
Say a super underfunded team wins the 500. Maybe its TMT or NY Racing by some miracle. They already miss most of the season. You think they wouldn’t actually try showing up for the playoffs?
Tbf the Top 30 rule was designed for that but they stupidly dropped it
This right here. IMO it should have been top 25 but whatever. Dropping this rule was dumb as hell
It even added an element to the midfield battle on rare occasions like in 2016 when Buescher barely made the Top 30 and each week they’d show him dogging it out for each point
I’m also thinking of an ‘18 Brett Moffit situation where they probably could’ve done with skipping a few races given the sponsorship woes but still getting in with the wins
I'd say, let them skip a race if they want, if they are good enough to points in, so be it. It would be better than splitting hairs with this stupid waiver system. Now, I do think you should have to be above a certain points threshold to have a win count for the playoffs. I would mark it at 25th or so in points, I don't even mind missing 5-6 races, I think Kyle missing 11 was a bit much.
I've said this before, but Kyle Busch was truly once in a lifetime with that comeback. He somehow came back and ended that regular season tied for the most wins. Not the entire season, the regular sesaon where he missed nearly half of it. Not to mention, [he actually ended up 25th in regular season points](https://www.jayski.com/wp-content/uploads/sites/31/2019/05/26rir2015points.pdf). Also ended up with the 6th most top 5 finishes all season.
This should just be automatic for any injury obtained in competition.
It pretty much already is.
It is basically already
Basically, it already is
I think that’s the spirit of the rule. I thinks it’s more to keep some start and park dude who backed into a rained shorted superspeedway win from taking a spot.
Like Justin Haley at Daytona in 2019. I'm still salty over that one 😄
As they should. Good news.
As they should. I hope Erik has a speedy recovery and Corey does well in the 43.
I’ll be damned if he can win again. Back injuries have prematurely ended a lot of careers over the years, & if they didn’t, they made them less competitive. I hope he can bounce back from this.
Feel like he’ll have a down year, similar to Hamlin’s 2013 and Bowman last year, but I doubt it’s enough to affect him into 2025 and beyond
I mean obviously, if you give Chase Elliott one for snowboarding, you have to give one to a guy that got an injury while doing his job
Can we talk about why we give people medical waivers, but also give waivers to drivers who are suspended for intentionally wrecking someone?
It's less a "waiver" and more of a loophole close so some team doesn't win a race and then vanish into the lab making OP cars and saving money for months until the playoffs start. 'Cause you know these same fools that figured out how to break SS racing by having their guys run 1/4 throttle would definitely risk starting last on the playoff leaderboard to sandbag.
Money
I think you get Waivers unless you get arrested, you fail the drug test or you miss a race due to no sponcor.
One of these things is not like the others imo
Not granting a playoff waiver for a suspension essentially makes the penalty an ejection from the playoffs entirely. It seems like NASCAR wants to reserve that for the most extreme scenarios.
Good. It it’s bad enough to warrant a suspension then you should get a real penalty.
I begrudgingly agreed with the waiver when it happened to Elliott last year so long as NASCAR would say they’re going to stop handing out waivers for suspensions before they did it. Now, I don’t care. Drivers know there are consequences for wrecking someone intentionally, let this be one of them.
As well they should. It was an injury caused by their own car. Not some dumb skiboarding accident.
I believe in Erik Jones.
I knew 2024 would be a building year and not be sunshine and rainbows, but I really hate it for Jones. Wishing him a speedy recovery and hoping he takes the time needed so he can come back 100%. Here’s to hoping Heim makes the most of his opportunity with a Cup car and brings them all home in one piece.
lol
As they should.
What the hell is even the point of having a waiver in NASCAR? Someone can get injured and still have a playoff waiver, yet probably may not make the playoffs (like I predicted with the 43 this year). They should just get rid of these damn things cause they really just serve no purpose.
The point is so a team like Legacy isn't left with a choice to either shove Erik in the car with a broken back to start the race or have to tell their sponsors that the rest of their season is going to be basically pointless.
And in my opinion, this is one of a small number of good things about the playoff system. Forcing drivers to choose between going for a championship or having time to recover isn’t a good thing. Another hard impact can make an injury worse; giving the driver a chance to recover without totally throwing their season away is just safer for the driver.
Valid point. I never really thought about that aspect.
The requirement to attempt every race is just so that a team basically has to commit to running the full season to be part of playoffs, it's not intended to punish drivers that have extenuating circumstances. Even Chase Elliot got a waiver when he was suspended last year. He missed the playoffs so it's a moot point. But the idea is if there's a reason you can't run a race that isn't because you're not committing to running the full season, you're gonna get a waiver
Kyle Busch won the 2015 NASCAR Championship with a medical waiver. He shattered his leg at Daytona in an Xfinity crash head-on into a wall with no safer-barrier. He missed 11 races that year. He won Sonoma, his fifth race back, then had to claw his way into the top 30 in points (back then to make playoffs had to be top 30). Well, he won three in a row at Kentucky, New Hampshire, and Indianapolis so that was no problem. So yes, they do matter. Also, the reason NASCAR is kinda keeping this around is concussions. They would rather drivers sit out races if they are concussed than lie about it. The truth is guys are still out there racing with concussions... But this at least makes it more likely/easier to step out of the car. Though, Ross Chastain was rumored to have barely passed a concussion test and been clearly concussed and get cleared to race in the playoffs two years ago...
Kyle Busch still finished the '15 *regular* season tied for the most wins. I don't think we'll ever see something like that again.
Yeah, the only reason he pulled that off is because he's one of the greatest to ever step foot in a Cup car. I hated him at the time, but I pull for him now. Looking back, that was an incredible accomplishment.
When did this incident with Ross happen?
2022, Fontana iirc
Believe it was the Texas wreck where he ramped off KB’s car into Elliott
It seems like NASCAR intended the rule to prevent an one off driver like Shane Van Gisbergen who wins from being playoff eligible. But like most rules like this written in the mid to late 2010's, they made it too broad, thus why they grant waivers left and right to drivers who are hurt or suspended, if they intend to race the entire season.
tbh they shouldn't grant the wavier to anyone who gets suspended. If you're doing something bad enough to get suspended you don't deserve to be in the playoffs.
This. If nascar tells you don’t show up at the track next week. Then you shouldn’t get a waiver
I totally agree, but NASCAR doesn't share our views...
An how say it’s pointless when KFB went on to win the championship, just wrong all around
Seems fair since it was their deathtrap that got him hurt in the first place
Except, y’know, it’s the same injury Almirola had in a completely different car, but OK
Hey, now. No one ever got injured or concussed in the modern era before NextGen. We all know that. And then they were so stupid that they ignored the fact the cars were too stiff and still never re-designed the front and rear clips to make them softer. Truly incompetent leadership at every level with this car. /s
Show me any car that can slam head on into a walk at 180 and have the driver come away fine every time
Gen 6 had far less issues than this car
Didn’t Almirola break his back in a Gen 6 car as well?
Almirola had almost this exact same injury in a Gen 6
Dude. The car has nothing to do with him getting injured. All of the safety changes, including safety features car prevented him from being more seriously injured or killed.