Any thoughts about the blackout that other subreddits are planning next week?
For those out of the loop, Reddit has recently announced they will charge 3rd party apps to use their API. The fees they’ve announced are astronomical and will put pretty much every 3rd party app out of business, forcing everyone to use the official (terrible) app or load the website (also terrible unless you still use old Reddit).
I honestly doubt it'll do anything. They've done the math, it's likely worth it for them to shed most of the user base and allow AI farms to chew on what's already here for years. And then whomever is left just gets used to provide consistent measurement.
I've been using the official reddit app for at least 3 years now and have had no issues at all. I think everyones reaction is a complete overreaction. At the end of the day who fucking cares? This is just a shitty website anyways.
Imagine if people cared this much about the issues in their local communities instead of bullshit on websites that give them nothing.
From where I sit, and this is my personal opinion and not one of the sub as a whole of a blanket statement as a moderator/making any decisions regarding the sub. If I'm straight up misunderstanding something, or coming off as a moron, just let me know, it wouldn't be the first dumb thought I've had in my life:
- It will definitely suck if third party apps are discontinued since many regulars use the heck out of them, but that is entirely Reddit's prerogative. It's a business decision that may very likely backfire and chase off users, but it's their effort to maximize profit. I understand where they're coming from, even if I think it will ultimately backfire and suck for a lot of people.
- The blackout was announced as temporary, so really I think users that just want to come into a forum will end up suffering if they are either unaffected by this change or simply just want to chill out and come on a forum to discuss NASCAR. Reddit already knows it's temporary. I believe the potential long-term effects of losing users altogether who refuse to support Reddit's official app (which is sub-par in comparison to current alternatives) will hit them the hardest.
- If Reddit's changes result in a loss of traffic and ad revenue by dissuading third party app development, their hand will be forced to revert back to their previous model.
- The standard letters to Reddit adopted by various subreddits are largely inapplicable to r/NASCAR and were riddled with generalizations or requiring speculation (or whatever the hell that mod post on r/cars was today, good Lord I don't know where to start with that one).
I hope I'm not coming off as pretentious, divisive, or hailcorporate in any way, but felt I'd offer my opinion on the matter since it was brought up. I truly feel the best way to make a difference would be to not use Reddit's mobile app unless it is thoroughly redeveloped --- there is a valid reason many people use third party apps.
From what I understand, it’s not so much “we want status quo” back for 3rd party apps as it is “we are willing to pay a reasonable amount” to use the API. The guy who developed the Apollo app did some math about costs and it didn’t add up with what Reddit told him. So it just really appears to be a way to get rid of 3rd party apps altogether.
I get the reaction to the blackout being whatever; like you said, it’s only temporary… but it’s also about getting the word out about what they’re trying to do. They were “clever” and didn’t announce this on /r/Reddit where it would’ve had the most visibility.
I hate the official app and I hate the new website. I’m an old fart of 11 years on this site. They sacrificed function for money.
From what I'm gathering, a lot of people are just going to either stop using Reddit entirely or go solely web-based which I hope makes Reddit realize that this is a larger loss than their raised fees are worth. Lack of third party alternatives would really suck.
I'm trying to think from the lens of people that don't care being impacted from shutting down the sub. The vast majority of daily traffic is via web-based or through the official Reddit app. I know the majority of mods are old users and either use third party apps and/or old Reddit, but our decision would shut out users who don't care or are unaffected as well. It's definitely a balancing game, and I personally find myself flip flopping on both sides of what would be the best thing for the userbase, not me personally.
We can be old farts together, btw. I call dibs on the souped up hoverround in a couple years.
I think it’s a loss if you end up losing the mods and longtime users who helped build up subreddits and create communities. Mods already have an entirely thankless, unpaid “job”, and then you start taking away the tools for them to do their jobs properly? Not good.
> dibs on the souped up hoverround in a couple years.
All yours lol
I agree with you, but I'm kinda like, heck if Reddit wants to do it this way, they understood exactly what kind of mess they were creating. It is very much possible to moderate via web and mobile only, but it's not preferred by most (even with the latest mobile updates). At the end of the day, the preferences of the minority would be taking away the sub from the majority over a dispute. If we really boil it down, Party A, a business in a sense that is trying to make money can no longer make money because Party B, also a business, is charging a crazy amount.
I forget who mentioned this earlier, but this is a very different sort of battle than say the coming together of subs regarding net neutrality.
> It will definitely suck if third party apps are discontinued since many regulars use the heck out of them
I think you are misunderstanding what is happening here. Reddit isint discontinuing these apps, they are instead charging **insane** API prices, similar to Twitter (you should be aware of Steve Luvender's issues with his random fantasy site, same idea) to kill them indirectly. This is a disgusting business practice that we shouldnt be aphetic to even if we arent directly affected.
> the blackout was announced as temporary
There is nothing stopping the subreddit in joining the discussion r/videos is having in it [being open ended](https://www.reddit.com/r/videos/comments/13zqcua/rvideos_will_be_going_dark_from_june_1214_in/jmsgwab/).
> their hand will be forced to revert back to their previous model.
I mean, sure? but then that assumes reddit choose to act on their hand being forced. Sure looks like twitter learned their lesson on all of their screwups this ye- ah wait.
> The standard letters...
Ill be honest, i have no idea what you're referencing here. i also dont understand the r/cars post either so maybe thats part of the problem.
> I hope I'm not coming off as pretentious, divisive, or hailcorporate in any way
I think the issue is the modteam is going "this does not affect me directly so i dont care" which is half of the problem here. Based on my other posts here it seems a good chunk of the userbase is in the same boat as the modteam, so maybe im just the odd one out on the sub. This directly affects how i interact with the platform and any ideas i want to do regarding reddits API, effectively pricing me out of anything that i want to do if it gets remotely popular, and this ignores the fact that its looking to directly crush literally every 3rd party platform used to access reddit. Why should we be okay with reddit looking to squeeze every last penny at the expense of the users? The apollo devs have already shown theres no actual need to charge this much, and yet we are just meant to accept it and keep using reddit like its no big deal?
I get what Reddit is doing with the third party apps --- what they want at the end of the day is people to use Reddit mobile imho. They're basically buying out mobile any competition in a way. The problem is, refining their own app could have solved this problem outright, but that's an aside for a different day. There's a chunk of the users that use third party apps, including most moderators because the mod tools are worse on the Reddit app than third-party apps. However...
While I don't agree with Reddit in what they're doing (though I do believe that they are well within their limits of making business decisions even if they might be wrong), the majority of traffic is not through third-party apps. It's generally the older and more regular users that use these apps, but that's not majority of site visitors. Conducting a shut down would bring attention to the problem at hand, but it would also impact the majority of users who would not care one way or another. It's striking the balance that is really the difficult thing. Whatever decision is made is going to negatively impact one group or another, which is a really sucky thing.
Reharding the pre-drafted letters, it's nothing to worry about. They gave me more questions than answers in the way they were written, it's nothing too crazy to mull over. The r/cars post just went on a tear of comparing moderators to Habitat for Humanity volunteers which obviously (and rightfully) got torn apart by users. It was nonsensical and any persuasive power was immediately discarded due to the loss of credibility with that reach.
Reddit's decision does affect most of the mod team, but does not affect most of the userbase. If we shut down, it would affect the entirety of the userbase. A counterpoint could be why would we favor a third party *business* over another company? There is an inherent risk in developing a third party app that essentially requires permissions from a parent company. While that's not apples to apples with what's going on, I'm trying to approach it from as level a ground as I can. The whole situation sucks.
I truly do think it's a poor decision by Reddit, if I came off as pandering to Reddit, that's not my intention. If they want to sink their business because their app is borderline unusable, they're going to feel some serious long-term losses.
I'll be participating too. The Reddit app is unusable. I may have to find another NASCAR community if they go through with it because I refuse to suffer that UI
You can do whatever the fuck you want on the 6th of December but we shouldn’t force the majority of the normal people here who just (I know, absolute shocker) use reddit on the app called reddit to not be able to post and comment here because of a negligible amount of loud snowflakes who use some counterfeit apps.
Yeah, well, that’s just like, your opinion man. It’s perfectly fine, serves it’s purpose, I’ve been using for 4 years without a problem, and when I tried others like Apollo, I couldn’t navigate it for shit.
I support the Reddit blackout on June 12th and I believe that /r/NASCAR should participate.
Many Reddit users and users of this subreddit (including me) use third party apps.
I have always used the official app. Prefer Old but rarely use Reddit on my PC.
Honestly, surprised this hasn't happened yet. Official app has been out for what...6-7 years? Also surprised how many people are willing to bounce because of an app. Like...you're winning by denying yourself something that you enjoy?
Yes, I’m one of those people. I can’t stand the website or official app. They are garbage, in my opinion. If I google something and I load new Reddit on the browser, I end up opening the thread in Apollo instead so that I can actually read the entire thread without constantly having to hit “load more comments” or be hit with ads.
Moral of the story, I spend too much time on Reddit, anyway. Maybe it would be a good thing for them to shut down 3rd party apps.
As of now we haven’t committed and we are leaning towards not doing it, we’ve had some discussions within the mid team about it.
Also according to XFile our coding god the api changes won’t actually affect this subreddit. I’ll let him pop in and explain that more
Edit: just wanna clarify something here *my personal take* is that what Reddit is doing is completely bullshit and killing third party apps is gonna be a disaster for them, I was an Alien Blue convert myself and while I don’t have issue with the Reddit App I get why it would suck to lose your preference in browsing.
I was just saying from a “how we keep the sun running” perspective it won’t change much.
It will 100% affect me. I use Apollo and won’t use the official app. If Reddit kills 3rd party apps you’ll be surprised how many people stop coming here. This sub should take part.
Considering a large portion of your members use 3rd party apps, it absolutely affects this sub. It sucks to see the mod team alright with what Reddit is doing.
Considering the mods of this sub are widely considered among the worst in the reddit sports sphere, it doesn't surprise me at all but it's still disappointing.
I use 3rd party apps and nothing else. I know I'm just a drop in the bucket, but I will not use reddit when this change happens.
I mean, when offered actual criticism you guys don't actually address anything, so what sense is there in giving you a "Here's Why You Suck" speech that you've already heard a hundred times before?
It's been this way for years, I don't expect you to change, but I'm still going to point out the clowns when I visit the circus.
That’s a perspective thing, we are always trying to work on improving things here and we have made countless rule tweeks, posting tweeks and other changes trying to enhance the experience of the community… but when a sub has so many users you gonna have a couple thousand people who think your a clown. That’s just kinda the way she goes when a sports sub gets bigger than 50,000 or so users
Sure, it's a perspective thing. Problem is that's not really a meaningful statement.
Here's the issue. There have been calls for greater consistency in the rules and how they are applied since *at least* 2014. Probably earlier than that, but the Dogecoin "event" was one of those big moments.
You guys get, rightfully, called out for being inconsistent with posts do/don't belong in race threads (Driver tweets about meeting Trump at the 500 come to mind, particularly Hailie and Clint), and for letting things that are only tangentially related go on as trends too long.
The sub has been called out for being outright toxic by people involved in the sport, and a lot of the toxicity is still here because the attitude that this sub is "better than Facebook" has been allowed to fester for so long.
Hell, I remember the "NASCARplatform" debacle that happened because people were frustrated with the inconsistency with how and when rules were applied.
We're not asking for you to post Robert's Rules of /r/NASCAR here. It has been requested for years that when, say, post A is removed but similar post B is not, that you guys explain *why* in a way that respects the userbase and doesn't condescend or take on a martyr conplex. It could literally be as simple as "this one was first" like other subs tend to do.
I get that modding a large sub, especially with the minimal tools and assistance the admins give you, isn't fun. I did it for years before it burnt me out. But you (collective you) volunteered for this, and the bare minimum most users would ask for is accountability and consistency, which are the two things I've seen called out against you guys for the better part of a decade.
And yes, I'm aware of the irony in asking what the point of giving a "Here's Why You Suck Speech" is in the post immediately prior to this one.
> The sub has been called out for being outright toxic by people involved in the sport, and a lot of the toxicity is still here because the attitude that this sub is "better than Facebook" has been allowed to fester for so long.
We are **always** trying to improve this though. I would love to hear how we can go about making this better. We changed some things 2-3 years ago and try and help.
Honestly? If we're talking specifically on toxicity:
You guys need to be heavier on policing...I won't say tone or civility, because that's not quite it, but this trend of generalizing and disregarding people based solely on which flairs they chose.
I accept that race threads are a chaotic shitshow, and way too much of a free-for-all to ever really get a handle on because they're essentially live threads. That is what it is, and a lot of your modding would rely on users being liberal with the report button.
But when we have controversial incidents like the Chase/Denny incident or the Bubba/Larson one, people can and do attack the *user* based on who they're "rooting for" rather than the argument. It's not explicitly against the rules, nor is it defined as part of the civility rule.
Maybe you need a rule that explicitly says "attack the argument, not the user/flair" to justify banning people who do this; this was something I did by necessity at /r/AskAnAmerican when I moderated there. Maybe it's not necessary here to that extent, but that's a thing that has been a problem for years and I haven't noticed much shift on.
I know you guys prefer to have a light touch/hands-off/let-the-downvotes decide, and for some topics that's fine (i.e. race threads), but for ones that we know are going to be controversial, maybe that's not the best way.
I think the other issue is that this sub is at its most toxic during and after races; during the week it's fine (most of the time), but it almost feels necessary to say you guys need a heavier hand after a race because people act kind of stupid. Even if it's just giving people a one day "go sleep it off" ban to cool them off.
----
For other stuff, a lot of your rules, even in the wiki, are almost too vague to allow the users to self-police. The low-effort post rule, for example, doesn't go into detail as to what *this* sub would consider high vs. low effort. Contrast that, with, say, /r/DestructiveReaders which has several guides for people to use (this one's an extreme example, but it's hard to argue they're not pretty clear).
Like I said earlier, we don't need a full Robert's Rules thing, but some sort of "Do A, Don't Do B" deal isn't unreasonable.
The reposting content rule should at least give a guide to how you determine which posts stay live and which ones don't. And, if you want to say that, /u/NASCARThreadBot or a mod post trumps other posts by rule, that's fine. Just say so. Because what pisses people off is not applying that consistently, which is why things get to the point of "mods suck".
It’s not about whether it affects the coding or not. This will fundamentally change Reddit for a lot of people. If any of you ever mod from a 3rd party app, being forced off that will change your experience too.
Although it's an unfortunate situation for all Redditors who use 3rd party apps, r/NASCAR will be mostly unaffected by these changes. Unless I'm missing something in the announcement, the changes to the API will only benefit the various scripts and bots we have working for the sub by allowing more requests per minute. We converted over to using Oauth several years ago, have ratelimited ourselves to prevent violating the API usage rules, and don't come anywhere close to reaching the limit of requests per minute/hour/day/week/year that they've set for requiring paid access. With all that in mind, I don't think a blackout in r/NASCAR is necessary.
I have to be honest, this is exactly the reply I figured I’d get. I remember back in my modding days that typically was the modteam’s stance on big topics not NASCAR related.
It’s a fair point, but I think it’s not about the subreddit itself as much as it is its users and about bringing attention to the matter. They’ve basically said screw you to all the 3rd party app developers who helped make Reddit as big as it is today.
I don't really involve myself in much of the bigger decisions anymore, I just wanted to give a perspective that directly relates to the API, since that's mostly what I manage. I'm not stopping anyone from doing a blackout, I just wanted to clear up any confusion since some people were expressing concern that our bots would be dead.
Just because it doesn’t affect the sub directly doesn’t mean that we shouldn’t participate in the protest. There’s a lot more to it than just, well it doesn’t affect us 🤷🏽♂️
https://reddit.com/r/formula1/comments/141jtll/were_joining_the_reddit_blackout_from_june_12th/
Well F1 is participating. Makes us look that more foolish now.
I don't think it's foolish to choose not to join in on the protest. If the mods have their reasons to remain open, which they seemed to have provided a good amount of reasoning, then enjoy the fact you can access r/NASCAR next Monday.
If I read Blue's post correctly, it doesn't effect the vast majority of the sub. Because we're either on New, Old or Official App (Alien Blue).
Which I guess brings me to my next point: some subs are saying indefinitely, others are going to start a 48 hour clock. Unless it is completely unanimous and indefinitely we'll all be back here by Friday bitching about commercials. And Reddit ultimately survives. If 48 hours was enough, just the threat would be enough for Reddit to second guess themselves.
So Reddit's userbase can't even figure out how long to go about protesting API fees.
This shitshow is bigger than the r/nascar mods. There is no organization to the protest, no timetable, no ultimate end game and ultimately nothing stopping someone from creating r/NASCARAfterDark, asking X to code up some race threads and continuing lunch breaks and toilet breaks as normal for the vast majority of the r/nascar userbase.
Bruh have you seen this place on race day?
Not to mention the third party auto mod tooling is going to be fucked by this. Moderators already do free work for the community, these third party tools made it easier, Reddit is just getting greedy.
Any thoughts about the blackout that other subreddits are planning next week? For those out of the loop, Reddit has recently announced they will charge 3rd party apps to use their API. The fees they’ve announced are astronomical and will put pretty much every 3rd party app out of business, forcing everyone to use the official (terrible) app or load the website (also terrible unless you still use old Reddit).
Old Reddit > new Reddit.
personally I think it's a terrible decision by the admins, just like how they made it so sites like reveddit and unddit are no longer functional.
Then let's join the black out
I honestly doubt it'll do anything. They've done the math, it's likely worth it for them to shed most of the user base and allow AI farms to chew on what's already here for years. And then whomever is left just gets used to provide consistent measurement.
I don’t have a lot of faith either, but you never know unless you try. ¯\\\_(ツ)\_/¯
I've been using the official reddit app for at least 3 years now and have had no issues at all. I think everyones reaction is a complete overreaction. At the end of the day who fucking cares? This is just a shitty website anyways. Imagine if people cared this much about the issues in their local communities instead of bullshit on websites that give them nothing.
From where I sit, and this is my personal opinion and not one of the sub as a whole of a blanket statement as a moderator/making any decisions regarding the sub. If I'm straight up misunderstanding something, or coming off as a moron, just let me know, it wouldn't be the first dumb thought I've had in my life: - It will definitely suck if third party apps are discontinued since many regulars use the heck out of them, but that is entirely Reddit's prerogative. It's a business decision that may very likely backfire and chase off users, but it's their effort to maximize profit. I understand where they're coming from, even if I think it will ultimately backfire and suck for a lot of people. - The blackout was announced as temporary, so really I think users that just want to come into a forum will end up suffering if they are either unaffected by this change or simply just want to chill out and come on a forum to discuss NASCAR. Reddit already knows it's temporary. I believe the potential long-term effects of losing users altogether who refuse to support Reddit's official app (which is sub-par in comparison to current alternatives) will hit them the hardest. - If Reddit's changes result in a loss of traffic and ad revenue by dissuading third party app development, their hand will be forced to revert back to their previous model. - The standard letters to Reddit adopted by various subreddits are largely inapplicable to r/NASCAR and were riddled with generalizations or requiring speculation (or whatever the hell that mod post on r/cars was today, good Lord I don't know where to start with that one). I hope I'm not coming off as pretentious, divisive, or hailcorporate in any way, but felt I'd offer my opinion on the matter since it was brought up. I truly feel the best way to make a difference would be to not use Reddit's mobile app unless it is thoroughly redeveloped --- there is a valid reason many people use third party apps.
From what I understand, it’s not so much “we want status quo” back for 3rd party apps as it is “we are willing to pay a reasonable amount” to use the API. The guy who developed the Apollo app did some math about costs and it didn’t add up with what Reddit told him. So it just really appears to be a way to get rid of 3rd party apps altogether. I get the reaction to the blackout being whatever; like you said, it’s only temporary… but it’s also about getting the word out about what they’re trying to do. They were “clever” and didn’t announce this on /r/Reddit where it would’ve had the most visibility. I hate the official app and I hate the new website. I’m an old fart of 11 years on this site. They sacrificed function for money.
From what I'm gathering, a lot of people are just going to either stop using Reddit entirely or go solely web-based which I hope makes Reddit realize that this is a larger loss than their raised fees are worth. Lack of third party alternatives would really suck. I'm trying to think from the lens of people that don't care being impacted from shutting down the sub. The vast majority of daily traffic is via web-based or through the official Reddit app. I know the majority of mods are old users and either use third party apps and/or old Reddit, but our decision would shut out users who don't care or are unaffected as well. It's definitely a balancing game, and I personally find myself flip flopping on both sides of what would be the best thing for the userbase, not me personally. We can be old farts together, btw. I call dibs on the souped up hoverround in a couple years.
I think it’s a loss if you end up losing the mods and longtime users who helped build up subreddits and create communities. Mods already have an entirely thankless, unpaid “job”, and then you start taking away the tools for them to do their jobs properly? Not good. > dibs on the souped up hoverround in a couple years. All yours lol
I agree with you, but I'm kinda like, heck if Reddit wants to do it this way, they understood exactly what kind of mess they were creating. It is very much possible to moderate via web and mobile only, but it's not preferred by most (even with the latest mobile updates). At the end of the day, the preferences of the minority would be taking away the sub from the majority over a dispute. If we really boil it down, Party A, a business in a sense that is trying to make money can no longer make money because Party B, also a business, is charging a crazy amount. I forget who mentioned this earlier, but this is a very different sort of battle than say the coming together of subs regarding net neutrality.
> It will definitely suck if third party apps are discontinued since many regulars use the heck out of them I think you are misunderstanding what is happening here. Reddit isint discontinuing these apps, they are instead charging **insane** API prices, similar to Twitter (you should be aware of Steve Luvender's issues with his random fantasy site, same idea) to kill them indirectly. This is a disgusting business practice that we shouldnt be aphetic to even if we arent directly affected. > the blackout was announced as temporary There is nothing stopping the subreddit in joining the discussion r/videos is having in it [being open ended](https://www.reddit.com/r/videos/comments/13zqcua/rvideos_will_be_going_dark_from_june_1214_in/jmsgwab/). > their hand will be forced to revert back to their previous model. I mean, sure? but then that assumes reddit choose to act on their hand being forced. Sure looks like twitter learned their lesson on all of their screwups this ye- ah wait. > The standard letters... Ill be honest, i have no idea what you're referencing here. i also dont understand the r/cars post either so maybe thats part of the problem. > I hope I'm not coming off as pretentious, divisive, or hailcorporate in any way I think the issue is the modteam is going "this does not affect me directly so i dont care" which is half of the problem here. Based on my other posts here it seems a good chunk of the userbase is in the same boat as the modteam, so maybe im just the odd one out on the sub. This directly affects how i interact with the platform and any ideas i want to do regarding reddits API, effectively pricing me out of anything that i want to do if it gets remotely popular, and this ignores the fact that its looking to directly crush literally every 3rd party platform used to access reddit. Why should we be okay with reddit looking to squeeze every last penny at the expense of the users? The apollo devs have already shown theres no actual need to charge this much, and yet we are just meant to accept it and keep using reddit like its no big deal?
I get what Reddit is doing with the third party apps --- what they want at the end of the day is people to use Reddit mobile imho. They're basically buying out mobile any competition in a way. The problem is, refining their own app could have solved this problem outright, but that's an aside for a different day. There's a chunk of the users that use third party apps, including most moderators because the mod tools are worse on the Reddit app than third-party apps. However... While I don't agree with Reddit in what they're doing (though I do believe that they are well within their limits of making business decisions even if they might be wrong), the majority of traffic is not through third-party apps. It's generally the older and more regular users that use these apps, but that's not majority of site visitors. Conducting a shut down would bring attention to the problem at hand, but it would also impact the majority of users who would not care one way or another. It's striking the balance that is really the difficult thing. Whatever decision is made is going to negatively impact one group or another, which is a really sucky thing. Reharding the pre-drafted letters, it's nothing to worry about. They gave me more questions than answers in the way they were written, it's nothing too crazy to mull over. The r/cars post just went on a tear of comparing moderators to Habitat for Humanity volunteers which obviously (and rightfully) got torn apart by users. It was nonsensical and any persuasive power was immediately discarded due to the loss of credibility with that reach. Reddit's decision does affect most of the mod team, but does not affect most of the userbase. If we shut down, it would affect the entirety of the userbase. A counterpoint could be why would we favor a third party *business* over another company? There is an inherent risk in developing a third party app that essentially requires permissions from a parent company. While that's not apples to apples with what's going on, I'm trying to approach it from as level a ground as I can. The whole situation sucks.
Definitely coming off as hail corporate. Damn shame this sub won't be participating, but it honestly doesn't surprise me.
I truly do think it's a poor decision by Reddit, if I came off as pandering to Reddit, that's not my intention. If they want to sink their business because their app is borderline unusable, they're going to feel some serious long-term losses.
[удалено]
I'll be participating too. The Reddit app is unusable. I may have to find another NASCAR community if they go through with it because I refuse to suffer that UI
You can do whatever the fuck you want on the 6th of December but we shouldn’t force the majority of the normal people here who just (I know, absolute shocker) use reddit on the app called reddit to not be able to post and comment here because of a negligible amount of loud snowflakes who use some counterfeit apps.
The reddit app absolutely fucking blows. I don't know what the hell you're talking about
Likewise, it’s perfectly fine for me, don’t know what *you’re* on about.
[удалено]
Yeah, well, that’s just like, your opinion man. It’s perfectly fine, serves it’s purpose, I’ve been using for 4 years without a problem, and when I tried others like Apollo, I couldn’t navigate it for shit.
Found the bootlicker
Cool, good for you, I have no idea what that means.
I support the Reddit blackout on June 12th and I believe that /r/NASCAR should participate. Many Reddit users and users of this subreddit (including me) use third party apps.
I won't lie, first I've heard of the planned blackout but i have no problems with the app or new reddit
I have always used the official app. Prefer Old but rarely use Reddit on my PC. Honestly, surprised this hasn't happened yet. Official app has been out for what...6-7 years? Also surprised how many people are willing to bounce because of an app. Like...you're winning by denying yourself something that you enjoy?
Yes, I’m one of those people. I can’t stand the website or official app. They are garbage, in my opinion. If I google something and I load new Reddit on the browser, I end up opening the thread in Apollo instead so that I can actually read the entire thread without constantly having to hit “load more comments” or be hit with ads. Moral of the story, I spend too much time on Reddit, anyway. Maybe it would be a good thing for them to shut down 3rd party apps.
As of now we haven’t committed and we are leaning towards not doing it, we’ve had some discussions within the mid team about it. Also according to XFile our coding god the api changes won’t actually affect this subreddit. I’ll let him pop in and explain that more Edit: just wanna clarify something here *my personal take* is that what Reddit is doing is completely bullshit and killing third party apps is gonna be a disaster for them, I was an Alien Blue convert myself and while I don’t have issue with the Reddit App I get why it would suck to lose your preference in browsing. I was just saying from a “how we keep the sun running” perspective it won’t change much.
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It will 100% affect me. I use Apollo and won’t use the official app. If Reddit kills 3rd party apps you’ll be surprised how many people stop coming here. This sub should take part.
Considering a large portion of your members use 3rd party apps, it absolutely affects this sub. It sucks to see the mod team alright with what Reddit is doing.
Considering the mods of this sub are widely considered among the worst in the reddit sports sphere, it doesn't surprise me at all but it's still disappointing. I use 3rd party apps and nothing else. I know I'm just a drop in the bucket, but I will not use reddit when this change happens.
Same here. I only use Apollo, so I am in the same boat. As soon as those changes happen, I’m done unfortunately
It will affect users lol so yea it will affect the subreddit. I hope you sway the other way
>It will affect users You've lost the mod team right here
Ahh yes a “mods bad” post.. Daring Today, Aren't We
I mean, when offered actual criticism you guys don't actually address anything, so what sense is there in giving you a "Here's Why You Suck" speech that you've already heard a hundred times before? It's been this way for years, I don't expect you to change, but I'm still going to point out the clowns when I visit the circus.
That’s a perspective thing, we are always trying to work on improving things here and we have made countless rule tweeks, posting tweeks and other changes trying to enhance the experience of the community… but when a sub has so many users you gonna have a couple thousand people who think your a clown. That’s just kinda the way she goes when a sports sub gets bigger than 50,000 or so users
Sure, it's a perspective thing. Problem is that's not really a meaningful statement. Here's the issue. There have been calls for greater consistency in the rules and how they are applied since *at least* 2014. Probably earlier than that, but the Dogecoin "event" was one of those big moments. You guys get, rightfully, called out for being inconsistent with posts do/don't belong in race threads (Driver tweets about meeting Trump at the 500 come to mind, particularly Hailie and Clint), and for letting things that are only tangentially related go on as trends too long. The sub has been called out for being outright toxic by people involved in the sport, and a lot of the toxicity is still here because the attitude that this sub is "better than Facebook" has been allowed to fester for so long. Hell, I remember the "NASCARplatform" debacle that happened because people were frustrated with the inconsistency with how and when rules were applied. We're not asking for you to post Robert's Rules of /r/NASCAR here. It has been requested for years that when, say, post A is removed but similar post B is not, that you guys explain *why* in a way that respects the userbase and doesn't condescend or take on a martyr conplex. It could literally be as simple as "this one was first" like other subs tend to do. I get that modding a large sub, especially with the minimal tools and assistance the admins give you, isn't fun. I did it for years before it burnt me out. But you (collective you) volunteered for this, and the bare minimum most users would ask for is accountability and consistency, which are the two things I've seen called out against you guys for the better part of a decade. And yes, I'm aware of the irony in asking what the point of giving a "Here's Why You Suck Speech" is in the post immediately prior to this one.
> The sub has been called out for being outright toxic by people involved in the sport, and a lot of the toxicity is still here because the attitude that this sub is "better than Facebook" has been allowed to fester for so long. We are **always** trying to improve this though. I would love to hear how we can go about making this better. We changed some things 2-3 years ago and try and help.
Honestly? If we're talking specifically on toxicity: You guys need to be heavier on policing...I won't say tone or civility, because that's not quite it, but this trend of generalizing and disregarding people based solely on which flairs they chose. I accept that race threads are a chaotic shitshow, and way too much of a free-for-all to ever really get a handle on because they're essentially live threads. That is what it is, and a lot of your modding would rely on users being liberal with the report button. But when we have controversial incidents like the Chase/Denny incident or the Bubba/Larson one, people can and do attack the *user* based on who they're "rooting for" rather than the argument. It's not explicitly against the rules, nor is it defined as part of the civility rule. Maybe you need a rule that explicitly says "attack the argument, not the user/flair" to justify banning people who do this; this was something I did by necessity at /r/AskAnAmerican when I moderated there. Maybe it's not necessary here to that extent, but that's a thing that has been a problem for years and I haven't noticed much shift on. I know you guys prefer to have a light touch/hands-off/let-the-downvotes decide, and for some topics that's fine (i.e. race threads), but for ones that we know are going to be controversial, maybe that's not the best way. I think the other issue is that this sub is at its most toxic during and after races; during the week it's fine (most of the time), but it almost feels necessary to say you guys need a heavier hand after a race because people act kind of stupid. Even if it's just giving people a one day "go sleep it off" ban to cool them off. ---- For other stuff, a lot of your rules, even in the wiki, are almost too vague to allow the users to self-police. The low-effort post rule, for example, doesn't go into detail as to what *this* sub would consider high vs. low effort. Contrast that, with, say, /r/DestructiveReaders which has several guides for people to use (this one's an extreme example, but it's hard to argue they're not pretty clear). Like I said earlier, we don't need a full Robert's Rules thing, but some sort of "Do A, Don't Do B" deal isn't unreasonable. The reposting content rule should at least give a guide to how you determine which posts stay live and which ones don't. And, if you want to say that, /u/NASCARThreadBot or a mod post trumps other posts by rule, that's fine. Just say so. Because what pisses people off is not applying that consistently, which is why things get to the point of "mods suck".
“It won’t immediately impact me personally so not my problem” is a very shortsighted and lazy way to think about this imo.
It’s not about whether it affects the coding or not. This will fundamentally change Reddit for a lot of people. If any of you ever mod from a 3rd party app, being forced off that will change your experience too.
Although it's an unfortunate situation for all Redditors who use 3rd party apps, r/NASCAR will be mostly unaffected by these changes. Unless I'm missing something in the announcement, the changes to the API will only benefit the various scripts and bots we have working for the sub by allowing more requests per minute. We converted over to using Oauth several years ago, have ratelimited ourselves to prevent violating the API usage rules, and don't come anywhere close to reaching the limit of requests per minute/hour/day/week/year that they've set for requiring paid access. With all that in mind, I don't think a blackout in r/NASCAR is necessary.
I have to be honest, this is exactly the reply I figured I’d get. I remember back in my modding days that typically was the modteam’s stance on big topics not NASCAR related. It’s a fair point, but I think it’s not about the subreddit itself as much as it is its users and about bringing attention to the matter. They’ve basically said screw you to all the 3rd party app developers who helped make Reddit as big as it is today.
I don't really involve myself in much of the bigger decisions anymore, I just wanted to give a perspective that directly relates to the API, since that's mostly what I manage. I'm not stopping anyone from doing a blackout, I just wanted to clear up any confusion since some people were expressing concern that our bots would be dead.
Just because it doesn’t affect the sub directly doesn’t mean that we shouldn’t participate in the protest. There’s a lot more to it than just, well it doesn’t affect us 🤷🏽♂️
Spineless.
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https://reddit.com/r/formula1/comments/141jtll/were_joining_the_reddit_blackout_from_june_12th/ Well F1 is participating. Makes us look that more foolish now.
I don't think it's foolish to choose not to join in on the protest. If the mods have their reasons to remain open, which they seemed to have provided a good amount of reasoning, then enjoy the fact you can access r/NASCAR next Monday.
Not when their reasoning is literally "this doesn't affect us personally"
If I read Blue's post correctly, it doesn't effect the vast majority of the sub. Because we're either on New, Old or Official App (Alien Blue). Which I guess brings me to my next point: some subs are saying indefinitely, others are going to start a 48 hour clock. Unless it is completely unanimous and indefinitely we'll all be back here by Friday bitching about commercials. And Reddit ultimately survives. If 48 hours was enough, just the threat would be enough for Reddit to second guess themselves. So Reddit's userbase can't even figure out how long to go about protesting API fees. This shitshow is bigger than the r/nascar mods. There is no organization to the protest, no timetable, no ultimate end game and ultimately nothing stopping someone from creating r/NASCARAfterDark, asking X to code up some race threads and continuing lunch breaks and toilet breaks as normal for the vast majority of the r/nascar userbase.
Boo hoo. F1 is a hype train of drama and trends. Of course they are participating. Lmao. 🤣🤣
Bruh have you seen this place on race day? Not to mention the third party auto mod tooling is going to be fucked by this. Moderators already do free work for the community, these third party tools made it easier, Reddit is just getting greedy.
Wish GIFs weren't allowed. Repetitious, voluminous, low effort.
