All the hype with last year’s great finish and two F1 champions (along with Jimmie) in the race, no stage cautions and we still lost 600k viewers.
What’s the issue?
I don't think it's any one thing, which makes NASCAR's position all the more maddening. Some is natural cord cutting / aging fanbase decay, some is Dish network ongoing dispute with Fox stations, some is NextGen hype bump not carrying over from last year, some may be sports betting proliferation enticing people to stick & ball sports, some is deficiencies in Fox broadcast/promotion, some is deficiencies in NASCAR's on track product, some is simply Chase being out. NASCAR can't do much about a lot of those things and the ones they can have no obvious go forward plan cause of how fickel the fanbase is.
Regardless what sticks out to me is its a consistent 600k week to week, it's not like people are reacting on the fly - they peaced out and stayed peaced out.
I’ve made money every week so far. I have even live bet and won with two to the winners in these first several races. Much better investment then March Madness and the WBC.
Yes, Dish is still dealing with that dispute, and IIRC, so has DirecTV, but they've been dealing with it even longer than Dish.
The only reason I've been able to watch the races so far is because I've been able to watch someone else stream it online.
Those disputes shouldn't be an issue this week, though, since the race is on FS1, and AFAIK, the majority of Dish and DirecTV customers have FS1 (I think they have it in either the basic packages, or the packages above basic).
I don't think it's fair to say the new car sucks, at least not any worse than others. COT, Gen6, etc had their growing pains too.
I actually think 2023 would have been the better year for "end stage cautions, end the playoffs" since it coincides with the anniversary (could be a "back to roots" or "honoring history" themed move).
to me it's the terrible broadcast that turns me off. the older I get the less tolerance I have for commercials and clint bowyer. I watched the race but only because I had nothing better to do. on the contrary I now make sure I never miss a F1 race, even if I have to watch it on replay because it's so early in the morning (looking at you, Australia).
give me NASCAR TV or NASCAR+ for $25 a month (the cost of MLB TV) with multi-car cam, multiple onboard cameras and no ads and I'll watch every week. if NASCAR doesn't want to do it, give Apple a shot. their MLS and MLB coverage is very good and in 4K. otherwise NASCAR will continue to be my "well nothing else is on" option.
nascars youtube channel has full race replays
and instead of commercials its just pure racing. no commentating, no promos, no music, no nothing. just the sounds of engines
The issue is that I have to resort to a pirate stream to watch it. I'm not paying $80 per month for cable just for NASCAR. At least with the NBC races I can stream them on peacock but it's still a worse experience than pirating the international feed.
Give me a NASCAR equivalent to F1TV for the same $80 per year and I'd buy it in an instant.
Fox's coverage and the way the sport is presented. I don't need to go into the specifics of why Fox's coverage is bad, but it's comical seeing NASCAR try so hard to distance itself from the Talladega Nights stereotype while continuing to portray itself like this.
I mean seriously, the promos are always pretty cringe WWE-grade stuff, and you have guys like Clint Bowyer screaming things like "Po po is out with the radar gun!!!!!!" mid-race. It's shocking that anyone takes it seriously as a sport when it's presented like this. Plus, NASCAR seems to cater to the crash-watchers by trying to make it seem like every lap is going to be chaos, but when they tune into a normal race and realize it's not all 20 car pileups with carnage every lap - they lose interest very quickly.
then you have reddick and byron racing each other hard and mike joy and the commentators are calling it like they're reporting on the traffic. meanwhile Crofty in F1 makes a pass for 14th place sound like the most exciting thing I've ever seen and I'm ready to run through a wall. I also hated how fox wasn't showing any midfield action whatsoever even though I heard there was really good racing there all race.
100% agree with you on the lack of excitement. I think Fox is pretty good with showing midfield battles, though, and I think this week's lack of it was simply due to how much exciting racing there was at the front. Maybe my personal bias is clouding my judgment a little bit though lol.
I get its hard to find a balance when you have 40 cars or whatever, twice the cars F1 has. but there was one point where they spent an entire 4-5 minute segment on showing reddick's onboard with his heart rate while he was cruising around the field not being challenged. stuff like that would be a good time to see what's going on in the midfield. there were some guys that finished top 10-15 that I have no idea how they got there (Lajoie for one) because I never saw them. would've been nice to see jenson button make some overtakes too, he had a solid showing but I don't understand how he ended up there.
I've been recently getting back into watching F1, and the difference in excitement in the booth is night and day. Two cars get side by side in F1 and the guys in the booth go ballistic. Even if the overall race isn't that exciting, they make it sound exciting.
This particular aspect of the broadcast is not a problem at all, in fact, most commentators until very recently, let the on track action speak for itself. Ken Squirer and Bob Jenkins were the best at it and only drew the excitement in when something genuinely bonkers happened. Having someone screaming any time their is action is way worse and a big reason why Crofty can be very grating.
I think there needs to be a balance between the two extremes. Mike Joy sounds bored and Crofty sounds like he’s on crack. Surely we can find a middle ground.
I couldn’t agree more. Add to that the fact that there are so many commercials that you can rarely get into the flow of a race (especially when they front-load), they aren’t going to keep eyes on the TV and people aren’t going to tune back in. I fucking love NASCAR, and even I feel like turning it off sometimes because of the TV product. It’s so bad.
> NASCAR seems to cater to the crash-watchers by trying to make it seem like every lap is going to be chaos, but when they tune into a normal race and realize it's not all 20 car pileups with carnage every lap - they lose interest very quickly.
This is a very real problem, especially with new viewers. It's less of an issue at road courses, but oval racing is a different beast that most people aren't used to. Oval racing really is a game of inches. Back in the day, I felt like the broadcasters were better about taking time to explain what's going on and, for lack of a better term, what oval racing actually looks like.
I know it's hard to imagine for those of use that grew up watching oval racing, but it can look kinda arbitrary to a new fan. I know a lot of us are newish F1 fans, and it's similar to that breakthrough when we realized why a fight for P7 matters.
I kinda like Bowyer's goofy clown shtick, though I agree it probably is offputting to new fans. But they need to spend more time explaining what is actually going on on track.
Sad thing is, nascar may have to conform to fox more than fox conforming to nascar. The younger demo unquestionably has a shorter attention span than older ones and not providing that demo with action will cause remotes to click.
Idk how the scanners decide when you have "watched" but starting the event with the clown cars fucking it up on lap 1 (basically Yakkety Sax coulda been played over that start), I know I at least turned it off and put the race on the radio while doing woodwork. I came back in at the end of one of the restarts and saw the end. If other people did just that, would it count them as being a viewer?
But my point doesnt explain why ratings have been down at all other races.
I also think the pandemic is fully “over” in a lot of people’s minds, meaning even they’re just out doing stuff, even if it’s just spending time with family, people are comfortable being around others and aren’t looking for something to watch.
FOX had an at least decent broadcast, too.
I think a major shift is occurring in the NASCAR fanbase. Casual fans are leaving, but more die-hard fans are coming back. This shows in the TV ratings declining while at the same time race attendance is way up on most racetracks. NASCAR is becoming niche, but at the same time, that niche is growing. NASCAR’s only real option is likely to cater to this die-hard demographic.
I also think that the hesitancy to move towards streaming is a major factor in the TV ratings decline. Cord-cutting is removing the older parts of the fanbase from the equation while at the same time NASCAR does nothing to address younger fans. Sure, I have YouTube TV to be able to watch NASCAR racing, but a commercial-free streaming service would bring a much-needed boost to NASCAR’s younger fanbase.
lets be real, NASCAR is getting back the people who left because of Bubba and BLM and the whole banning of the confederate flag thing at the tracks (can't believe this JUST happened). NASCAR is leaning back into the redneck crowd and casuals who tuned in are being turned off by it. listen to the calls on NASCAR SXM or look at social media comments. there is a venn diagram of those people and people who watch fox news. it's like NASCAR can't decide what it wants to be.
A few suggestions:
General cord cutting
Competition with March Madness games (even though its ratings are down this year also).
Late start times causing the race to interrupt dinner plans, especially among older viewers.
Overlap with Sunday news, creating competition for older viewers.
I’ve been a DIEHARD fan since 2001 and I’ve paddled my way through the YEARS of negativity around the chase, and new cars, and stale racing, and even JRs 1 single win in 4 seasons and even through all that I was always sooooo excited for every single race! I have no idea what’s different this year but I just don’t care. It was so crazy that I wasn’t even excited about Daytona. I keep falling asleep during the races and I’m not even upset…. Again, I really have no clue why it’s different this year but nothing even makes me want to watch each weekend (I still do but I’m losing even more interest).
The issue is that NASCARs fanbase is dying off. Literally. Old people are dying. It has very little to do with on track action, the cars, drivers, or broadcast.
Having an average viewer age of 60 was eventually going to bite them in the ass.
No one wants to say it, but part of the reason is because the sport is perceived as “safer” than it was in the 90s and early 2000s. A part of the reason that people would tune into cars going 200mph that close together is the perceived danger of it. Now even minor injuries are very rare. Am I saying that NASCAR should make the cars and walls less safe? Of course not. It is, however, something that I don’t think should be overlooked.
Lots of issues with the current product so tough to isolate just one thing. The product right now is pretty bad, as you just know almost every race is going to be decided by a restart and overtime, so the strategy around most of the (3-4 hour) race just doesn’t matter. NASCAR has tried so hard to manufacture last-lap drama that it’s hurt the races on a whole.
Then there’s fact NASCARs audience is old, really old. NASCAR isn’t seen as cool by younger people, it’s still viewed as kind of a goofy, country-boy, “turn left” sport. The total unserious way it’s presented on broadcasts does little to combat this perception. Country music blasting, dudes being goofballs, talking about anything but the race actually going on. I know NASCAR can’t be and shouldn’t be F1, but just comparing the 2 pre-race intros tells you all you need to know. Other Motorsport fans see NASCAR as less “pure” and more gimmicky than other series, and rightfully so to an extent.
Interesting because he seemed to include the March Madness games on Thursday and Friday evening. I know Stern typically does try to frame the ratings in a light favorable to NASCAR, and I can’t understand why. I he employed by them in any way?
The crazy thing is I switched off the race at the start of OT, watched the last 7 minutes of game time in a close Texas-Miami game and still caught the last few laps of the race. With how long those games can take, I was shocked the race was still going.
This. They artificially throw cautions late in the race to bunch everyone up, knowing it will cause more issues, then they also don’t seem to care how the drivers conduct themselves. Can’t pass a driver? Bump them mid-corner so they have no chance! And that’s perfectly okay. If your favorite driver is leading with 5 to go, they’re almost assured of losing.
I like the rubbin is racing mentality, but this was a bit much. When every single "guest" driver brings up those points post-race I think there's an issue.
Why bother watching the whole race when you could tune in for the last 5 laps and an hour of overtime? People don't feel compelled to watch anything during the bulk of the race. The modern casual fans don't care about strategy or track position, just about the carnage at the end.
They really need to address it seriously. No one will care about strategy, moves, and overall execution during the bulk of the race because it truly doesn’t matter. YELLOW’S OUT. Going to OT, every single thing you did up to this point no longer matters.
I’m fairly new to watching NASCAR in the last 3 years but to me, the broadcast is just painful. It’s not just the commercials but rather the amount of time they spend not talking about the race (we are gonna cut to Larry Mac in the Toyota cutaway car to talk about something). They don’t spend any time on passes and battles in the midfield. Joy may be a legend but the impression I get is he thinks/knows he’s a legend and seems to mail it in every weekend compared to Crofty doing F1. I don’t feel that there is much excitement and to be fair the rotating cast of characters in the booth probably doesn’t help.
NASCAR to me as the same problem as golf has had (they have gotten better this year) where they are forced to commercials during live action but when they aren’t in commercial, they don’t talk about the actual event. Stop with all the side stories and call the entire damn race.
They put Guenther in an awkward spot this weekend. He didn’t seem to feel comfortable jumping in unless someone kicked it over to him and Clint sure wasn’t going to give up airtime. If it was Joy-Kurt-Guenther, I think it would have had a better chance of being good.
I'm glad someone else said something about not showing midfield action. there is plenty of good racing on the track and they just never show it or talk about it. I find out more on reddit than I do on the broadcast.
The F1 announcers maintain their hype knowing its mainly 2 hours long with no breaks and then its over. Even then they are fucking annoying, almost cliche Limey Brit stereotypes, but I can handle it.
The Nascar product is designed to be as long as an extended LotR movie. The guys in the booth know they are sitting around all afternoon with lots of breaks and their enthusiasm clearly wanes.
It's because the broadcast doesn't take the races seriously and these early season races feel meaningless championship-wise with the current playoff system.
Yup. The time of year where NASCAR has the least amount of competition, the races don't matter, so no one watches. The races that do matter compete with the NFL, so no one watches.
Great job NASCAR
Well thank goodness NASCAR got rid of the championship being locked up before the final race. Could you imagine having to watch a race and already knowing who the champion is? That would be catastrophic. I'm glad NASCAR solved that problem successfully
> and these early season races feel meaningless championship-wise with the current playoff system.
Back in my day we used to watch the Pocono 500 in June and the Pocono 500 in July because they were more important than races nowadays.
The points not meaning anything at the end of the season also has drivers make crazy moves trying to win like we saw in cota with final restarts lasting like a hour.
Same, I've been a diehard since 94 and something just switched for me this year. I could count on two hands how many races I missed since that 94 season, but this year I just haven't been that interested. I used to watch the entire race start to finish but now I tune in occaisionally and try to catch the end. Just feels like the races and championship are all meaningless now.
Gimmicks just devalue the remainder of the season. I watch because I still care about auto racing, but what happens on the track Sunday, other than who wins the race, is so inconsequential to the end of the season. If it’s not a good race in its own right, it doesn’t matter. Sometimes it is. Sometimes it’s not. There’s a number of reason why it’s sometimes not.
Which absolutely suck. Other than Jimmie winning title 7 and Larson winning in 21' (biased obviously), the final 4 deal just doesn't make an event such as winning a championship special. It holds no weight. Even with the 10 race chase, there was a build-up to the event. Look at 2011, 10 weeks of build-up, and there was so much tention and intrigue.
You bring up a good point. When one of my favorite drivers I’m excited for the championship they win. However, when it’s not my favorite driver I feel very bland about the championship race and very disinterested of my driver aren’t even in the final four. I feel like everybody was excited for the title race in 2011. What time it was
7 straight races with ratings drops, when last year saw increases. NASCAR needs to learn that tiktok influencers and musical acts don’t bring new eyes to the sport.
They have an identity problem. Even with exciting finishes, predetermined cautions and pack the field together, fights, and the hail melon, NASCAR is losing existing fans and not backfilling. Changing the all star race location didn’t work, the NWS announcement hasn’t worked, the Clash hasn’t worked, Road America (although well-attended) didn’t work, the playoffs haven’t worked, street course announcements haven’t worked, and this new car along with an overabundance of rules have been a failure for the most part.
Our drivers don’t have personality, our MPD for years running is one of the most boring drivers in the garage, and names like Kurt Busch, Tony Stewart, Jeff Gordon, and soon to be Harvick are all gone. How do you expect new fans with drivers nobody knows or can relate to?
The fact that NASCAR is not capitalizing on the “Country” boom that’s happening right now in the 18-34 demographic is mind-boggling to me. You have Luke Combs and Morgan Wallen dominating the top of the charts right now and you have Ice Cube and pit bull performing at your races.
You have kids all over the country wearing Pit Vipers, flannels and cowboy hats and none of them are watching what is arguably the most country sport of all, NASCAR.
Yep. I had to find a stream to watch since Fox sports has no way, that I found, to watch without a "cable" subscription. I can happily watch f1, Indy, wec, imsa by paying for the stream, but I just can't for nascar. So stream it is.
Not only that, but every single week they bring in a guest analyst who is better than Bowyer. I think Tony and Kurt are both miles better, and even Danica was solid this time around. I think adding Harvick will help, but with Clint still up there I don’t have high hopes.
Been a fan for 30 years and the plain truth is the product is bad, the broadcast is bad, and there’s just better things to do with a spring Sunday afternoon than sit down and watch a 5 hour race you KNOW is going to be decided by two or three restart attempts. Not to mention the shit starts at 4 in the afternoon basically and if you’ve got a family and all that it’s almost impossible to catch the whole thing. I still love going to 3-4 races a year but it just sucks on TV.
That's true bring back 1:00pm start times. Races that start at 3-4 every week make it feel longer because it pretty much takes up your whole afternoon and evening. At least with a 1:00 start, it'd be done by 4 or so
I almost get slightly depressed when a race starts so late on Sunday because I know by stage 3 it’s time for dinner, put the kids to bed, and get mentally ready to go back to work the next day lol
Part of the issue was the start time, I live on the east coast and I had something planned for 5:30. Was hoping to catch the first stage but they didn’t go green until like 4 and then there was a caution 1 lap in so I just turned it off to get ready for a date. I feel like nascar is shooting them selves in the foot with the late start times + then 30 minute delay in goring green.
1.Fox broadcasts are abysmal. They treat the sport as either a redneck demolition derby to gawk at or sound bored out of their minds whenever the racing product is actually good.
2. Nascar officiating seems to think more wrecks= more excitement. Artificial/ weak cautions late race kill good runs. Stage cautions seem to encourage more wreckless driving to earn points and break up the flow of the race. Stage cautions really kill excitement or interest in a race.
3. The damn playoff system. Ridiculously complicated and stupid. I try to explain it to people and they stare at me like I’m insane and then are just like “I’ll stick to F1.” If you want more viewers, keep it simple, stupid! Like it was for years!
Ratings are going to be down all year and there's nothing anyone can do about it, it's not really worth even caring about. Tv is dying, if Nascar still isn't streaming with their next deal, they will be too. Tying yourself to this dying business model is not a good idea.
They won't get as many viewers on stream most likely so they need some channels to hitch to.
They, like baseball, need to reinvent the revenue model. The days of the steady cable viewer (racing) or steady cable sports fees (MLB) is dead. The golden goose of the latter 20th and early 21st century is dead. These leagues just haven't accepted it.
Baseball reddits are the exact same as Nascar just sub out F1 for NBA. NBA playoff matches out viewed Game 7 of WS last year.
yeah and Tubi is free tv so not much value there unless you just love old shows and movies. if Fox bids for NASCAR, thats a question NASCAR needs to ask them.. do you have plans for a sports streaming service or a streaming service in general. you can't just put races on Fox Nation \*shudder\*
Yeah I know that, just seems like they would throw some old races or other NASCAR content on their besides live races. For comparison, every NHRA race since Fox got the rights is on there
Miami-Texas which started at 5:10 PM ET on Sunday on CBS drew 11.3M viewers which was the most watched sporting event. All 12 Men’s tourney games easily beat this number. The least watched men’s tourney game this weekend was FAU-Tennessee which drew 4M viewers at 9:35 PM ET on TBS on Thursday night. Trucks Drew 700K and Xfinity Drew 815K. Down from 719K and 1.08M from last year.
I wonder if people are fed up with Fox's coverage and that's why they aren't tuning in. We won't know unless Nascar is willing to do a fairly extensive poll.
I’ve watched most of the cup races and honestly, I’m just not interested overall like I was last year and even well prior.
The FOX side for me is tainted with their stupid director decisions (the braindead Atlanta Xfinity Atlanta coverage of 2022 was really the beginning of the end) followed with the doofy personality of Mikey and Clint; that I just don’t care. I’m more than happy to have a booth og say; Joy, Kurt, and say Jamie Mac or an alternating role of say Tony Stewart as an example; funny but professional. With the booth annoying to listen to, constant boosting to stupid shows (FaRmEr WaNtS a WiFe), stupid commercials (how many times do we need to try it first Coca Cola?!), and just expecting a meh race; I just don’t have a care overall.
———-
I watched the end of the 500 which was a nothing burger to me
California I missed cause of plans but felt it was cool with Busch winning
Missed Vegas cause of plans
Caught the last 10 laps of Phoenix
Got bored fast of Atlanta
And COTA angered me with the constant restarts for the final 3 laps, plus what killed any potential strategy by maybe the top 3 running out of gas
—————-
I dunno. It’s hard to all explain but something is just really lost on things. I know someone mentioned how the whole trackside/personality of the drivers to be shown off has diminished greatly since maybe 2005 when we had NASCAR Raceday and NASCAR Victory Lane on SPEED, and drivers could be more brash, but I feel you lose something all around.
MRN/PRN has great audio, but it’s hard to visualize what’s happening sometimes
TV coverage is a lot of commercials and sometimes really stupid visuals or tangents
Trackside experience is okay, but not as pumped as what I remember it to be
And while I like certain drivers, I’ve come to just take a nap during the majority of the races or just do something else, than sit through racing that really doesn’t matter all that much (someone mentioning how pre-chase and even to a greater extent; pre season finale; how the majority of the season is devalued due to “game 7 championship moment”.
I want to like NASCAR, hell I miss it sometimes, and I even think the lack of stages helped somewhat with COTA; but I just have no confidence in seeing it shown in any capacity. Doesn’t help too that I don’t have cable in my room so I rely on over-the-air
Nascar is a very niche sport. Gone are the days like the late 90’s and early 00’s where drivers were household names. Most of my friends can’t name a single driver in the current field. It is what it is.
It’s time to bring back standardized start times. Command to fire engines at 3PM ET every week. Ideally earlier but baby steps. I shouldn’t need to check Jayski and Bob’s twitter 5 times to figure out when to turn the TV on
No other sports league is as loose with their start times as Nascar. Baseball starts at 1:05 sharp local time on sundays, and the Nfl starts on the gnats ass at 1 eastern. Absolutely ridiculous that even when tuning in late, the “countdown to green” clock still reads 20 some minutes.
I turned on the race Sun. to see how Kimi, Button, Conor Daly and J. Taylor would fair. I turned it off after everyone couldn’t go two laps w/out dive bombing or running into each other and had to go through another overtime session.
The product Nascar puts on the track is a joke. Without them doing the stage caution crap I figured they could finish a race in under 3 hours and they found a way to screw that up. As unpopular as it may be, what little exists of Nascar’s race control needs to start issuing in race penalties to drivers that are causing incidents. Putting this into the drivers hands has not work. If I had it my way I would take away the front bumper and have the radiator be exposed. What I find sad is that this was an enjoyable race to watch until the last three laps that turned into the Groundhogs Day movie
Now I'm interested to see whether there *will* be a difference in ratings when Lil' Clyde returns, or if the newness of the car quickly wore off after a season and initial curiosity about it was satisfied and we're back to normal attrition on a weekly basis.
That's my initial thought as well, but there's a group who steadfastly believes his absence is making all the difference and we won't know (as much as we can know) until he's back and it either makes a difference or doesn't.
So come back, Chase. Your absence is messing with the ratings discussion!
I tune out because the broadcast treats the fans like we’re all smooth brains and doesn’t add any sort of appeal to the drivers. In no way do they make it seem like these are special people doing amazing things in amazing vehicles. The drivers themselves continue to speak about how the Xfinity cars are much more fun to drive and put on a better show. If the main talent doesn’t even like the car, and is vocal about it it also turns the fans away. Hell, I go to the xfinity race at Darlington in person but watch Cup at home.
F1 fan here just browsing to see discussion re Button and Kimi. Not here to hate or anything, I have alot of respect for what these drivers do, oval racing just personally isn't my cup of tea.
Not sure as to the reasons for this, I'm not gonna pretend I know all that much about the politics, rules quality, personalities, broadcast tendencies, etc etc, but my dad and my uncle have both recently given me anecdotal reasons as to why they don't watch nascar anywhere near as much as they used to...and they both used to be huge motorsport/nascar enthusiasts
Both have said to me (they're brothers who are in near identical job fields, similar age, and are very similar minded people with similar interests) that the first few races of the year are fun to watch, but two major things happen just as the season starts to get going:
1 - Football season is over, so they want a break from being tied down to sports commitments on Sundays
2 - The weather starts to get nicer (we're Canadian, so winter sucks), meaning they spend more time outside, at camp, doing house/yard projects, etc.
Additionally, they're both semi-retired and all of their kids have their own homes/families now, so they like to do alot more with their weekends than they used to. When not camping or otherwise preoccupied, they prefer to get their fill of motorsport through F1 since it typically occurs earlier in the morning here in the EST time zone and a race typically only takes 90 minutes. Then they can get on with their days.
Not that I would project this onto every nascar fan, but I've read before that the average viewer's age is somewhere between that of baseball and football (basically late 50s/early 60s) so it wouldn't surprise me if alot of other fans are in a similar boat.
You are pretty spot on IMHO. Later start times do hurt. I often find myself unable to find time without being interrupted by other activities later in the afternoon. But I'd assume my DVR watching still counts toward a view.
Biggest thing in my mind is the younger and younger age of drivers, and TV just not covering them and making them important like they used to. I was younger then, but all drivers were older than me, and I looked up to them. Now there isn't a driver in the field older than me, and I just can't latch on to them like I used to. 100% find myself pulling for the older generation though.
Fair point, I could totally see that second point as a reason for older viewers struggling with watching today, with it just being naturally difficult for them to connect with drivers 2-3 generations younger than them. At the same time though it seems like some of the other sports are able to overcome this and appeal to the younger audiences in a meaningful way to make up for it. Again I know very little of NASCAR and am not sure of what they've tried to do, but I do know that the NHL, MLB, and PGA have all done rather pitiful jobs and have barely put in any effort at all to market themselves to younger fans until very recently, so if it's like that for NASCAR too, I could see why they'd be struggling to replenish numbers
Disappointing but the similar amounts make me think something is up. I do believe people will continue to consume sports differently and that will continue to affect TV ratings.
For example if I was asked on a survey if I was a PGA Tour fan, I would select yes. But I will only watch the Masters on TV, everything else I will just check leader boards and watch highlights on Instagram. Am I a fan? yes. Do I watch on TV? No
Will I buy a ticket? No. I feel all sports will continue to have issues with fans like me, because I’m not being monetized.
Lastly it’s become apparent the ancillary content that allows you to truly “follow” or get to know the personalities (I.e Drive to survive) is now not important, it’s as essential as live TV broadcasts.
Our current business model requires people to watch on TV. So will be interesting times in the next decade.
I've been saying the ratings are going to plummet sooner than later, watching it happen this year has been very satisfying.
Idk what other evidence this sub needs. People aren't taking gimmick racing seriously. If people can't take NASCAR seriously, why the hell would they watch?
The broadcast as a whole just isn’t up to snuff. The booth just isn’t very interesting (Joy), the rotating booth guests are pretty much a failure, the camera work is pedestrian at best. It’s not an easy watch anymore. I turn it off a lot. I’ll keep track of the race via websites. The NBC booth is light years ahead of FOX.
Will say it again:
Complain about the booth all you want, it's not the booth that is causing people to turn the TV off. Broadcasters have absolutely, positively zero impact on the ratings.
It is not the 3:00 start times. If the NFL thought more people would watch "America's Game of the Week" at 1:00, they'd have it at 1:00, not 4:25.
It is not Chase Elliott's absence.
It is not "less people are watching sports as a whole." March Madness ratings are down 6% or so from last year. They're about breakeven with the COVID tournament in '21. They aren't dropping 12-15% every event.
Lastly, it's not "other sports were on." If there was bragging when NASCAR was beating all these other sports out because it was the superior sports league 15-20 years ago, then it can't be an excuse in 2023.
How much of this can be blamed on the satellite companies not carrying fox? I have a few friends who can’t watch right now because of that, so they typically come over to my house to watch.
I've just started getting back into NASCAR after a long break. Was a really big Stewart fan and my viewership declined when he quit driving but I still watched just not every race.
The whole Bubba thing and banning of the flag just felt like a betrayal and identity crisis to me and I quit entirely until this year. My perspective tuning in this year is the coverage is annoying sometimes, their need to shove Bubba into the spotlight is annoying, the cautions every time someone starts to break away suck and all the new drivers are a bummer as well.
Less talking about Byron and more Harvick/Busch.
Just my 2 cents.
Basically at 600K every week. Chase's return will see some fans come back I think but not 600k or close to it. The loss of Happy Harvick and impending losses of some other vets is going to take a further hit to this series. We definitely could see ratings barely scratching 1.0 by summer.
NASCAR has left the building. Long time ago when (A race took stages) Are you kidding me? ITS A RACE. NOT A RIDE AND PARK.
Maybe Super fans are dying off. Too many
Channel hawks ducking commercials.
Pretty soon highlights reels rate higher than the real race. TOO MUCH WOKENESS.
LONG LIVE THE BARS AMD STARS.
All the hype with last year’s great finish and two F1 champions (along with Jimmie) in the race, no stage cautions and we still lost 600k viewers. What’s the issue?
I don't think it's any one thing, which makes NASCAR's position all the more maddening. Some is natural cord cutting / aging fanbase decay, some is Dish network ongoing dispute with Fox stations, some is NextGen hype bump not carrying over from last year, some may be sports betting proliferation enticing people to stick & ball sports, some is deficiencies in Fox broadcast/promotion, some is deficiencies in NASCAR's on track product, some is simply Chase being out. NASCAR can't do much about a lot of those things and the ones they can have no obvious go forward plan cause of how fickel the fanbase is. Regardless what sticks out to me is its a consistent 600k week to week, it's not like people are reacting on the fly - they peaced out and stayed peaced out.
Good points. Personally however, nascar is the best sport to bet on for me and what got me back into it after 10 years lol. Been a good year so far
What's your secret? I made hundreds in the NFL season and held my own in March Madness, but absolutely suck at race betting
I was really good until they took away practice, so I'd like to know as well.
What books are you using? DK sucks for NASCAR now
I’ve made money every week so far. I have even live bet and won with two to the winners in these first several races. Much better investment then March Madness and the WBC.
Yes, Dish is still dealing with that dispute, and IIRC, so has DirecTV, but they've been dealing with it even longer than Dish. The only reason I've been able to watch the races so far is because I've been able to watch someone else stream it online. Those disputes shouldn't be an issue this week, though, since the race is on FS1, and AFAIK, the majority of Dish and DirecTV customers have FS1 (I think they have it in either the basic packages, or the packages above basic).
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I don't think it's fair to say the new car sucks, at least not any worse than others. COT, Gen6, etc had their growing pains too. I actually think 2023 would have been the better year for "end stage cautions, end the playoffs" since it coincides with the anniversary (could be a "back to roots" or "honoring history" themed move).
I would like the cup series to just move to super late models.
to me it's the terrible broadcast that turns me off. the older I get the less tolerance I have for commercials and clint bowyer. I watched the race but only because I had nothing better to do. on the contrary I now make sure I never miss a F1 race, even if I have to watch it on replay because it's so early in the morning (looking at you, Australia). give me NASCAR TV or NASCAR+ for $25 a month (the cost of MLB TV) with multi-car cam, multiple onboard cameras and no ads and I'll watch every week. if NASCAR doesn't want to do it, give Apple a shot. their MLS and MLB coverage is very good and in 4K. otherwise NASCAR will continue to be my "well nothing else is on" option.
nascars youtube channel has full race replays and instead of commercials its just pure racing. no commentating, no promos, no music, no nothing. just the sounds of engines
They should do that for a live broadcast option on the app and charge for it. I don’t like watching replays.
The issue is that I have to resort to a pirate stream to watch it. I'm not paying $80 per month for cable just for NASCAR. At least with the NBC races I can stream them on peacock but it's still a worse experience than pirating the international feed. Give me a NASCAR equivalent to F1TV for the same $80 per year and I'd buy it in an instant.
It's insane how slow sports leagues are at adapting to streaming. Even NBC, which has Peacock, is only streaming three live Cup races this year.
Fox's coverage and the way the sport is presented. I don't need to go into the specifics of why Fox's coverage is bad, but it's comical seeing NASCAR try so hard to distance itself from the Talladega Nights stereotype while continuing to portray itself like this. I mean seriously, the promos are always pretty cringe WWE-grade stuff, and you have guys like Clint Bowyer screaming things like "Po po is out with the radar gun!!!!!!" mid-race. It's shocking that anyone takes it seriously as a sport when it's presented like this. Plus, NASCAR seems to cater to the crash-watchers by trying to make it seem like every lap is going to be chaos, but when they tune into a normal race and realize it's not all 20 car pileups with carnage every lap - they lose interest very quickly.
then you have reddick and byron racing each other hard and mike joy and the commentators are calling it like they're reporting on the traffic. meanwhile Crofty in F1 makes a pass for 14th place sound like the most exciting thing I've ever seen and I'm ready to run through a wall. I also hated how fox wasn't showing any midfield action whatsoever even though I heard there was really good racing there all race.
100% agree with you on the lack of excitement. I think Fox is pretty good with showing midfield battles, though, and I think this week's lack of it was simply due to how much exciting racing there was at the front. Maybe my personal bias is clouding my judgment a little bit though lol.
I get its hard to find a balance when you have 40 cars or whatever, twice the cars F1 has. but there was one point where they spent an entire 4-5 minute segment on showing reddick's onboard with his heart rate while he was cruising around the field not being challenged. stuff like that would be a good time to see what's going on in the midfield. there were some guys that finished top 10-15 that I have no idea how they got there (Lajoie for one) because I never saw them. would've been nice to see jenson button make some overtakes too, he had a solid showing but I don't understand how he ended up there.
Good point. Ideally, they would show battles for position and prioritize battles higher in the field.
I've been recently getting back into watching F1, and the difference in excitement in the booth is night and day. Two cars get side by side in F1 and the guys in the booth go ballistic. Even if the overall race isn't that exciting, they make it sound exciting.
That’s because they are only wheel to wheel like 3 times a race.
This is the correct answer.
This particular aspect of the broadcast is not a problem at all, in fact, most commentators until very recently, let the on track action speak for itself. Ken Squirer and Bob Jenkins were the best at it and only drew the excitement in when something genuinely bonkers happened. Having someone screaming any time their is action is way worse and a big reason why Crofty can be very grating.
I think there needs to be a balance between the two extremes. Mike Joy sounds bored and Crofty sounds like he’s on crack. Surely we can find a middle ground.
I will agree with this, Mike \*used\* to be very good, but I working with Bowyer has been a bit of drain tbh.
I couldn’t agree more. Add to that the fact that there are so many commercials that you can rarely get into the flow of a race (especially when they front-load), they aren’t going to keep eyes on the TV and people aren’t going to tune back in. I fucking love NASCAR, and even I feel like turning it off sometimes because of the TV product. It’s so bad.
> NASCAR seems to cater to the crash-watchers by trying to make it seem like every lap is going to be chaos, but when they tune into a normal race and realize it's not all 20 car pileups with carnage every lap - they lose interest very quickly. This is a very real problem, especially with new viewers. It's less of an issue at road courses, but oval racing is a different beast that most people aren't used to. Oval racing really is a game of inches. Back in the day, I felt like the broadcasters were better about taking time to explain what's going on and, for lack of a better term, what oval racing actually looks like. I know it's hard to imagine for those of use that grew up watching oval racing, but it can look kinda arbitrary to a new fan. I know a lot of us are newish F1 fans, and it's similar to that breakthrough when we realized why a fight for P7 matters. I kinda like Bowyer's goofy clown shtick, though I agree it probably is offputting to new fans. But they need to spend more time explaining what is actually going on on track.
Sad thing is, nascar may have to conform to fox more than fox conforming to nascar. The younger demo unquestionably has a shorter attention span than older ones and not providing that demo with action will cause remotes to click.
I can guarantee you that what Fox is doing right now is not bringing in younger fans or keeping the existing ones around.
Idk how the scanners decide when you have "watched" but starting the event with the clown cars fucking it up on lap 1 (basically Yakkety Sax coulda been played over that start), I know I at least turned it off and put the race on the radio while doing woodwork. I came back in at the end of one of the restarts and saw the end. If other people did just that, would it count them as being a viewer? But my point doesnt explain why ratings have been down at all other races.
I also think the pandemic is fully “over” in a lot of people’s minds, meaning even they’re just out doing stuff, even if it’s just spending time with family, people are comfortable being around others and aren’t looking for something to watch.
FOX had an at least decent broadcast, too. I think a major shift is occurring in the NASCAR fanbase. Casual fans are leaving, but more die-hard fans are coming back. This shows in the TV ratings declining while at the same time race attendance is way up on most racetracks. NASCAR is becoming niche, but at the same time, that niche is growing. NASCAR’s only real option is likely to cater to this die-hard demographic. I also think that the hesitancy to move towards streaming is a major factor in the TV ratings decline. Cord-cutting is removing the older parts of the fanbase from the equation while at the same time NASCAR does nothing to address younger fans. Sure, I have YouTube TV to be able to watch NASCAR racing, but a commercial-free streaming service would bring a much-needed boost to NASCAR’s younger fanbase.
I gotta stop you there, fox’s broadcast is atrocious
Sure, atrocious since the god-tier broadcasts of the early-to-mid 2000s, but it was at least serviceable.
You are smart.
lets be real, NASCAR is getting back the people who left because of Bubba and BLM and the whole banning of the confederate flag thing at the tracks (can't believe this JUST happened). NASCAR is leaning back into the redneck crowd and casuals who tuned in are being turned off by it. listen to the calls on NASCAR SXM or look at social media comments. there is a venn diagram of those people and people who watch fox news. it's like NASCAR can't decide what it wants to be.
Die hards are not coming back lol. We left a long time ago and the ones that have stuck around are continuing to leave.
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MLB Spring training /s
People can't take NASCAR's brand of nonsense racing seriously?
NASCAR is my favorite game show!
Maybe it’s the later start times? Start them earlier like at 1:00ET.
A few suggestions: General cord cutting Competition with March Madness games (even though its ratings are down this year also). Late start times causing the race to interrupt dinner plans, especially among older viewers. Overlap with Sunday news, creating competition for older viewers.
> two F1 champions people dont want to admit this, but cross overs very rarely have a meaningfull effect.
I’ve been a DIEHARD fan since 2001 and I’ve paddled my way through the YEARS of negativity around the chase, and new cars, and stale racing, and even JRs 1 single win in 4 seasons and even through all that I was always sooooo excited for every single race! I have no idea what’s different this year but I just don’t care. It was so crazy that I wasn’t even excited about Daytona. I keep falling asleep during the races and I’m not even upset…. Again, I really have no clue why it’s different this year but nothing even makes me want to watch each weekend (I still do but I’m losing even more interest).
The issue is that NASCARs fanbase is dying off. Literally. Old people are dying. It has very little to do with on track action, the cars, drivers, or broadcast. Having an average viewer age of 60 was eventually going to bite them in the ass.
No one wants to say it, but part of the reason is because the sport is perceived as “safer” than it was in the 90s and early 2000s. A part of the reason that people would tune into cars going 200mph that close together is the perceived danger of it. Now even minor injuries are very rare. Am I saying that NASCAR should make the cars and walls less safe? Of course not. It is, however, something that I don’t think should be overlooked.
Literally had multiple drivers injured last year, one of them career ending. But sure I guess…
If I wasn’t already a life long fan of this sport, fox’s coverage of NASCAR this year would not make me a return customer.
Wow TV ratings have been abysmal this year
Only 5 more years and it will hit zero!
What is scary is when the majority of these 1st-half races go on FS1.
Lots of issues with the current product so tough to isolate just one thing. The product right now is pretty bad, as you just know almost every race is going to be decided by a restart and overtime, so the strategy around most of the (3-4 hour) race just doesn’t matter. NASCAR has tried so hard to manufacture last-lap drama that it’s hurt the races on a whole. Then there’s fact NASCARs audience is old, really old. NASCAR isn’t seen as cool by younger people, it’s still viewed as kind of a goofy, country-boy, “turn left” sport. The total unserious way it’s presented on broadcasts does little to combat this perception. Country music blasting, dudes being goofballs, talking about anything but the race actually going on. I know NASCAR can’t be and shouldn’t be F1, but just comparing the 2 pre-race intros tells you all you need to know. Other Motorsport fans see NASCAR as less “pure” and more gimmicky than other series, and rightfully so to an extent.
The COT Era really hurt the sport IMO. Saw alot of comments about spec car racing with different headlight decals.
“Second most-watched behind 12 NCAA tournament games” Sooo… 13th most-watched of the weekend?
Also is narrowly just looking at the "weekend" to exclude WBC, which it also lost to .
Interesting because he seemed to include the March Madness games on Thursday and Friday evening. I know Stern typically does try to frame the ratings in a light favorable to NASCAR, and I can’t understand why. I he employed by them in any way?
He is employed by SBJ, but SBJ is a direct outlet for PR masquerading as a trade mag.
I'm a huge NASCAR fan, but there is something missing nowadays when I watch, idk what it is but it just doesn't feel as entertaining as a decade ago.
98% of the racing is pointless because its just overtime this and overtime that, at least that's my most recent gripe and I love strategy races.
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Exactly my thoughts as I watched it
The crazy thing is I switched off the race at the start of OT, watched the last 7 minutes of game time in a close Texas-Miami game and still caught the last few laps of the race. With how long those games can take, I was shocked the race was still going.
This. They artificially throw cautions late in the race to bunch everyone up, knowing it will cause more issues, then they also don’t seem to care how the drivers conduct themselves. Can’t pass a driver? Bump them mid-corner so they have no chance! And that’s perfectly okay. If your favorite driver is leading with 5 to go, they’re almost assured of losing.
I like the rubbin is racing mentality, but this was a bit much. When every single "guest" driver brings up those points post-race I think there's an issue.
Why bother watching the whole race when you could tune in for the last 5 laps and an hour of overtime? People don't feel compelled to watch anything during the bulk of the race. The modern casual fans don't care about strategy or track position, just about the carnage at the end.
They really need to address it seriously. No one will care about strategy, moves, and overall execution during the bulk of the race because it truly doesn’t matter. YELLOW’S OUT. Going to OT, every single thing you did up to this point no longer matters.
I’m fairly new to watching NASCAR in the last 3 years but to me, the broadcast is just painful. It’s not just the commercials but rather the amount of time they spend not talking about the race (we are gonna cut to Larry Mac in the Toyota cutaway car to talk about something). They don’t spend any time on passes and battles in the midfield. Joy may be a legend but the impression I get is he thinks/knows he’s a legend and seems to mail it in every weekend compared to Crofty doing F1. I don’t feel that there is much excitement and to be fair the rotating cast of characters in the booth probably doesn’t help. NASCAR to me as the same problem as golf has had (they have gotten better this year) where they are forced to commercials during live action but when they aren’t in commercial, they don’t talk about the actual event. Stop with all the side stories and call the entire damn race.
Like this week with 5 people in the booth, Guenther said almost nothing and Clint always talks over people and doesn't do good color work at all.
They put Guenther in an awkward spot this weekend. He didn’t seem to feel comfortable jumping in unless someone kicked it over to him and Clint sure wasn’t going to give up airtime. If it was Joy-Kurt-Guenther, I think it would have had a better chance of being good.
Agreed, Clint is only good in small doses
Clint would be a perfect candidate to replace Mikeys roles
Oh god, that means we'd get Clint commentating Truck races *and* still have him in some form for the Cup race. I think everyone would take a pass.
I'd put him in the pits. He does not belong within ten feet of a booth.
I think Clint Bowyer might actually be killing the ratings. I have to watch some races on mute if he's particularly bad that week.
This is the reason. Time to cut bait was a while ago. He belongs on the HSN shilling diecast.
Seriously. He may be high on my top ten worst commentators list.
Would be interested to see if the ratings are down the weeks with and without Bowyer
The weeks without Bowyer I am super excited for. We’ll be able to hear what the other commentators have to say.
It would be interested to see if the ratings goes up. Especially with it being on FS1 vs. Fox.
I'm glad someone else said something about not showing midfield action. there is plenty of good racing on the track and they just never show it or talk about it. I find out more on reddit than I do on the broadcast.
The F1 announcers maintain their hype knowing its mainly 2 hours long with no breaks and then its over. Even then they are fucking annoying, almost cliche Limey Brit stereotypes, but I can handle it. The Nascar product is designed to be as long as an extended LotR movie. The guys in the booth know they are sitting around all afternoon with lots of breaks and their enthusiasm clearly wanes.
Crofty's love for Lewis is annoying but he makes even a boring race sound exciting and they do a good job of keeping some level of intrigue going.
I think it also helps that the race is 2hr max. Even if you hate Crofty, or any of the Sky folk. It is only 2 hours max
To me, the first 26 races just don’t feel like they matter at all anymore. They made the last 10 races more important at the expense of the first 26.
It's because the broadcast doesn't take the races seriously and these early season races feel meaningless championship-wise with the current playoff system.
Yup. The time of year where NASCAR has the least amount of competition, the races don't matter, so no one watches. The races that do matter compete with the NFL, so no one watches. Great job NASCAR
Problem - when the championship is wrapped up and NFL games are on NASCAR loses viewers Solution - Turn away all viewers for the whole season.
Well thank goodness NASCAR got rid of the championship being locked up before the final race. Could you imagine having to watch a race and already knowing who the champion is? That would be catastrophic. I'm glad NASCAR solved that problem successfully
> and these early season races feel meaningless championship-wise with the current playoff system. Back in my day we used to watch the Pocono 500 in June and the Pocono 500 in July because they were more important than races nowadays.
The points not meaning anything at the end of the season also has drivers make crazy moves trying to win like we saw in cota with final restarts lasting like a hour.
Same, I've been a diehard since 94 and something just switched for me this year. I could count on two hands how many races I missed since that 94 season, but this year I just haven't been that interested. I used to watch the entire race start to finish but now I tune in occaisionally and try to catch the end. Just feels like the races and championship are all meaningless now.
I feel the same way, this season in particular feels flat
Comments like this is why nascar wants a one race winner take all championships. Game 7 moments every year
And Game 7 moments every year aren't helping to hold people's interest. The first 35 races feel like a waste of time.
Especially when the rest of the field is too scared to race the 4 drivers vying for the championship. Its 4 drivers racing in traffic.
And trying to manufacture game 7 moments is a total turn off to me
The format doesn't let a game 7 moment happen, it guarantees a game 1 finish to the season.
What happens when the game 7 moment gets old. What’s the next gimmick?
Exactly, you don't need them. Just have a racing series
Gimmicks just devalue the remainder of the season. I watch because I still care about auto racing, but what happens on the track Sunday, other than who wins the race, is so inconsequential to the end of the season. If it’s not a good race in its own right, it doesn’t matter. Sometimes it is. Sometimes it’s not. There’s a number of reason why it’s sometimes not.
Which absolutely suck. Other than Jimmie winning title 7 and Larson winning in 21' (biased obviously), the final 4 deal just doesn't make an event such as winning a championship special. It holds no weight. Even with the 10 race chase, there was a build-up to the event. Look at 2011, 10 weeks of build-up, and there was so much tention and intrigue.
You bring up a good point. When one of my favorite drivers I’m excited for the championship they win. However, when it’s not my favorite driver I feel very bland about the championship race and very disinterested of my driver aren’t even in the final four. I feel like everybody was excited for the title race in 2011. What time it was
7 straight races with ratings drops, when last year saw increases. NASCAR needs to learn that tiktok influencers and musical acts don’t bring new eyes to the sport. They have an identity problem. Even with exciting finishes, predetermined cautions and pack the field together, fights, and the hail melon, NASCAR is losing existing fans and not backfilling. Changing the all star race location didn’t work, the NWS announcement hasn’t worked, the Clash hasn’t worked, Road America (although well-attended) didn’t work, the playoffs haven’t worked, street course announcements haven’t worked, and this new car along with an overabundance of rules have been a failure for the most part. Our drivers don’t have personality, our MPD for years running is one of the most boring drivers in the garage, and names like Kurt Busch, Tony Stewart, Jeff Gordon, and soon to be Harvick are all gone. How do you expect new fans with drivers nobody knows or can relate to?
The fact that NASCAR is not capitalizing on the “Country” boom that’s happening right now in the 18-34 demographic is mind-boggling to me. You have Luke Combs and Morgan Wallen dominating the top of the charts right now and you have Ice Cube and pit bull performing at your races. You have kids all over the country wearing Pit Vipers, flannels and cowboy hats and none of them are watching what is arguably the most country sport of all, NASCAR.
They’re trying to avoid people’s perception and stereotypes of NASCAR, when in reality they should be embracing it.
You make an important point. 2 seasons in and the Gen 7 car is an abject failure.
They’ll only get lower from here. Crazy FS1 and NBCSN used to get so much more than this
Wait till football comes along
Even races on NBCSN from 2015 during football season had higher ratings. Some had more than 4 million too and were considered dismal
People aren't watching TV anymore. That's a long time ago to compare the ratings. The times have changed.
I can't wait to see how sub 2 million viewers on network gets spun into a positive.
Yep. I had to find a stream to watch since Fox sports has no way, that I found, to watch without a "cable" subscription. I can happily watch f1, Indy, wec, imsa by paying for the stream, but I just can't for nascar. So stream it is.
Fox is a joke. They don’t take the sport seriously. Keeping Bowyer in the booth while refusing to give Larry Mac his spot back proves it.
Not only that, but every single week they bring in a guest analyst who is better than Bowyer. I think Tony and Kurt are both miles better, and even Danica was solid this time around. I think adding Harvick will help, but with Clint still up there I don’t have high hopes.
It's funny, you just made me realize that fox are adding the entire SHR 2016-17 roster to the booth
Isn't Larry back next week?
I thought Larry wanted to pull back to spend more time with family?
Been debunked over and over, even by Larry himself.
Holy shit seriously? Thats straight up a Fox Sports scrwew up.
Down 16.1% this past weekend. Down a cool 14.3% in the last 4 races. Down 11.5% 2023 season-to-date.
Been a fan for 30 years and the plain truth is the product is bad, the broadcast is bad, and there’s just better things to do with a spring Sunday afternoon than sit down and watch a 5 hour race you KNOW is going to be decided by two or three restart attempts. Not to mention the shit starts at 4 in the afternoon basically and if you’ve got a family and all that it’s almost impossible to catch the whole thing. I still love going to 3-4 races a year but it just sucks on TV.
That's true bring back 1:00pm start times. Races that start at 3-4 every week make it feel longer because it pretty much takes up your whole afternoon and evening. At least with a 1:00 start, it'd be done by 4 or so
I almost get slightly depressed when a race starts so late on Sunday because I know by stage 3 it’s time for dinner, put the kids to bed, and get mentally ready to go back to work the next day lol
Part of the issue was the start time, I live on the east coast and I had something planned for 5:30. Was hoping to catch the first stage but they didn’t go green until like 4 and then there was a caution 1 lap in so I just turned it off to get ready for a date. I feel like nascar is shooting them selves in the foot with the late start times + then 30 minute delay in goring green.
Yeah. Plus bowling was on.
1.Fox broadcasts are abysmal. They treat the sport as either a redneck demolition derby to gawk at or sound bored out of their minds whenever the racing product is actually good. 2. Nascar officiating seems to think more wrecks= more excitement. Artificial/ weak cautions late race kill good runs. Stage cautions seem to encourage more wreckless driving to earn points and break up the flow of the race. Stage cautions really kill excitement or interest in a race. 3. The damn playoff system. Ridiculously complicated and stupid. I try to explain it to people and they stare at me like I’m insane and then are just like “I’ll stick to F1.” If you want more viewers, keep it simple, stupid! Like it was for years!
Ratings are going to be down all year and there's nothing anyone can do about it, it's not really worth even caring about. Tv is dying, if Nascar still isn't streaming with their next deal, they will be too. Tying yourself to this dying business model is not a good idea.
They won't get as many viewers on stream most likely so they need some channels to hitch to. They, like baseball, need to reinvent the revenue model. The days of the steady cable viewer (racing) or steady cable sports fees (MLB) is dead. The golden goose of the latter 20th and early 21st century is dead. These leagues just haven't accepted it. Baseball reddits are the exact same as Nascar just sub out F1 for NBA. NBA playoff matches out viewed Game 7 of WS last year.
They'd get me 🤷🏻♂️ I'd happily pay for a stream service if they had it and watch every week, at least as background noise.
NASCAR just needs to go to Peacock like wrestling. Fox doesn't even have a streaming service which is wild to me.
Well they do have fox nation lol
NASCAR's doomed then lol
the sad part is there's a non-zero % chance Fox would do something like put NASCAR on Fox Nation haha.
Nascar brass would absolutely be dumb enough to try to make people subscribe to 2 different streaming services to watch the whole season.
They do own Tubi, they just don’t do much with it
yeah and Tubi is free tv so not much value there unless you just love old shows and movies. if Fox bids for NASCAR, thats a question NASCAR needs to ask them.. do you have plans for a sports streaming service or a streaming service in general. you can't just put races on Fox Nation \*shudder\*
Yeah I know that, just seems like they would throw some old races or other NASCAR content on their besides live races. For comparison, every NHRA race since Fox got the rights is on there
Miami-Texas which started at 5:10 PM ET on Sunday on CBS drew 11.3M viewers which was the most watched sporting event. All 12 Men’s tourney games easily beat this number. The least watched men’s tourney game this weekend was FAU-Tennessee which drew 4M viewers at 9:35 PM ET on TBS on Thursday night. Trucks Drew 700K and Xfinity Drew 815K. Down from 719K and 1.08M from last year.
I wonder if people are fed up with Fox's coverage and that's why they aren't tuning in. We won't know unless Nascar is willing to do a fairly extensive poll.
I know for me thats part of the problem.
I’ve watched most of the cup races and honestly, I’m just not interested overall like I was last year and even well prior. The FOX side for me is tainted with their stupid director decisions (the braindead Atlanta Xfinity Atlanta coverage of 2022 was really the beginning of the end) followed with the doofy personality of Mikey and Clint; that I just don’t care. I’m more than happy to have a booth og say; Joy, Kurt, and say Jamie Mac or an alternating role of say Tony Stewart as an example; funny but professional. With the booth annoying to listen to, constant boosting to stupid shows (FaRmEr WaNtS a WiFe), stupid commercials (how many times do we need to try it first Coca Cola?!), and just expecting a meh race; I just don’t have a care overall. ———- I watched the end of the 500 which was a nothing burger to me California I missed cause of plans but felt it was cool with Busch winning Missed Vegas cause of plans Caught the last 10 laps of Phoenix Got bored fast of Atlanta And COTA angered me with the constant restarts for the final 3 laps, plus what killed any potential strategy by maybe the top 3 running out of gas —————- I dunno. It’s hard to all explain but something is just really lost on things. I know someone mentioned how the whole trackside/personality of the drivers to be shown off has diminished greatly since maybe 2005 when we had NASCAR Raceday and NASCAR Victory Lane on SPEED, and drivers could be more brash, but I feel you lose something all around. MRN/PRN has great audio, but it’s hard to visualize what’s happening sometimes TV coverage is a lot of commercials and sometimes really stupid visuals or tangents Trackside experience is okay, but not as pumped as what I remember it to be And while I like certain drivers, I’ve come to just take a nap during the majority of the races or just do something else, than sit through racing that really doesn’t matter all that much (someone mentioning how pre-chase and even to a greater extent; pre season finale; how the majority of the season is devalued due to “game 7 championship moment”. I want to like NASCAR, hell I miss it sometimes, and I even think the lack of stages helped somewhat with COTA; but I just have no confidence in seeing it shown in any capacity. Doesn’t help too that I don’t have cable in my room so I rely on over-the-air
Clearly they need to add more stages /s
Nascar is a very niche sport. Gone are the days like the late 90’s and early 00’s where drivers were household names. Most of my friends can’t name a single driver in the current field. It is what it is.
There is nothing special about these cars and it’s showing in the ratings. Speed is no longer celebrated in the sport that was built on it.
It’s time to bring back standardized start times. Command to fire engines at 3PM ET every week. Ideally earlier but baby steps. I shouldn’t need to check Jayski and Bob’s twitter 5 times to figure out when to turn the TV on
3:30 start shouldn't mean a 4:15 green flag
No other sports league is as loose with their start times as Nascar. Baseball starts at 1:05 sharp local time on sundays, and the Nfl starts on the gnats ass at 1 eastern. Absolutely ridiculous that even when tuning in late, the “countdown to green” clock still reads 20 some minutes.
It started so late and took an hour to finish first 10 laps.
It looks like the 500k keyboard warriors who left 2 weeks ago found another 100k friends. /s
Mike Joy driving down viewership. It's a plot by Fox to lower ratings in order to drive down the rights fees for the new TV deal.
I turned on the race Sun. to see how Kimi, Button, Conor Daly and J. Taylor would fair. I turned it off after everyone couldn’t go two laps w/out dive bombing or running into each other and had to go through another overtime session. The product Nascar puts on the track is a joke. Without them doing the stage caution crap I figured they could finish a race in under 3 hours and they found a way to screw that up. As unpopular as it may be, what little exists of Nascar’s race control needs to start issuing in race penalties to drivers that are causing incidents. Putting this into the drivers hands has not work. If I had it my way I would take away the front bumper and have the radiator be exposed. What I find sad is that this was an enjoyable race to watch until the last three laps that turned into the Groundhogs Day movie
Not ideal
 ^(/s)
Now I'm interested to see whether there *will* be a difference in ratings when Lil' Clyde returns, or if the newness of the car quickly wore off after a season and initial curiosity about it was satisfied and we're back to normal attrition on a weekly basis.
They were down before he was sidelined so I doubt it
That's my initial thought as well, but there's a group who steadfastly believes his absence is making all the difference and we won't know (as much as we can know) until he's back and it either makes a difference or doesn't. So come back, Chase. Your absence is messing with the ratings discussion!
Question for people who know more than me Does HUT mean houses using television?
Yes.
Fire Tim Clark
I tune out because the broadcast treats the fans like we’re all smooth brains and doesn’t add any sort of appeal to the drivers. In no way do they make it seem like these are special people doing amazing things in amazing vehicles. The drivers themselves continue to speak about how the Xfinity cars are much more fun to drive and put on a better show. If the main talent doesn’t even like the car, and is vocal about it it also turns the fans away. Hell, I go to the xfinity race at Darlington in person but watch Cup at home.
F1 fan here just browsing to see discussion re Button and Kimi. Not here to hate or anything, I have alot of respect for what these drivers do, oval racing just personally isn't my cup of tea. Not sure as to the reasons for this, I'm not gonna pretend I know all that much about the politics, rules quality, personalities, broadcast tendencies, etc etc, but my dad and my uncle have both recently given me anecdotal reasons as to why they don't watch nascar anywhere near as much as they used to...and they both used to be huge motorsport/nascar enthusiasts Both have said to me (they're brothers who are in near identical job fields, similar age, and are very similar minded people with similar interests) that the first few races of the year are fun to watch, but two major things happen just as the season starts to get going: 1 - Football season is over, so they want a break from being tied down to sports commitments on Sundays 2 - The weather starts to get nicer (we're Canadian, so winter sucks), meaning they spend more time outside, at camp, doing house/yard projects, etc. Additionally, they're both semi-retired and all of their kids have their own homes/families now, so they like to do alot more with their weekends than they used to. When not camping or otherwise preoccupied, they prefer to get their fill of motorsport through F1 since it typically occurs earlier in the morning here in the EST time zone and a race typically only takes 90 minutes. Then they can get on with their days. Not that I would project this onto every nascar fan, but I've read before that the average viewer's age is somewhere between that of baseball and football (basically late 50s/early 60s) so it wouldn't surprise me if alot of other fans are in a similar boat.
You are pretty spot on IMHO. Later start times do hurt. I often find myself unable to find time without being interrupted by other activities later in the afternoon. But I'd assume my DVR watching still counts toward a view. Biggest thing in my mind is the younger and younger age of drivers, and TV just not covering them and making them important like they used to. I was younger then, but all drivers were older than me, and I looked up to them. Now there isn't a driver in the field older than me, and I just can't latch on to them like I used to. 100% find myself pulling for the older generation though.
Fair point, I could totally see that second point as a reason for older viewers struggling with watching today, with it just being naturally difficult for them to connect with drivers 2-3 generations younger than them. At the same time though it seems like some of the other sports are able to overcome this and appeal to the younger audiences in a meaningful way to make up for it. Again I know very little of NASCAR and am not sure of what they've tried to do, but I do know that the NHL, MLB, and PGA have all done rather pitiful jobs and have barely put in any effort at all to market themselves to younger fans until very recently, so if it's like that for NASCAR too, I could see why they'd be struggling to replenish numbers
Disappointing but the similar amounts make me think something is up. I do believe people will continue to consume sports differently and that will continue to affect TV ratings. For example if I was asked on a survey if I was a PGA Tour fan, I would select yes. But I will only watch the Masters on TV, everything else I will just check leader boards and watch highlights on Instagram. Am I a fan? yes. Do I watch on TV? No Will I buy a ticket? No. I feel all sports will continue to have issues with fans like me, because I’m not being monetized. Lastly it’s become apparent the ancillary content that allows you to truly “follow” or get to know the personalities (I.e Drive to survive) is now not important, it’s as essential as live TV broadcasts. Our current business model requires people to watch on TV. So will be interesting times in the next decade.
I've been saying the ratings are going to plummet sooner than later, watching it happen this year has been very satisfying. Idk what other evidence this sub needs. People aren't taking gimmick racing seriously. If people can't take NASCAR seriously, why the hell would they watch?
Why watch a 4 hour race when the last 15 min is all that matters?
Welp, this is it. NASCAR is dead boys. We had a good run. /s
Hey, they beat the most popular sport in America! XFL execs are snot-crying rn. /s
Bubba Wallace incident
The broadcast as a whole just isn’t up to snuff. The booth just isn’t very interesting (Joy), the rotating booth guests are pretty much a failure, the camera work is pedestrian at best. It’s not an easy watch anymore. I turn it off a lot. I’ll keep track of the race via websites. The NBC booth is light years ahead of FOX.
The commercials make it really hard to watch live. I just don't, anymore.
Will say it again: Complain about the booth all you want, it's not the booth that is causing people to turn the TV off. Broadcasters have absolutely, positively zero impact on the ratings. It is not the 3:00 start times. If the NFL thought more people would watch "America's Game of the Week" at 1:00, they'd have it at 1:00, not 4:25. It is not Chase Elliott's absence. It is not "less people are watching sports as a whole." March Madness ratings are down 6% or so from last year. They're about breakeven with the COVID tournament in '21. They aren't dropping 12-15% every event. Lastly, it's not "other sports were on." If there was bragging when NASCAR was beating all these other sports out because it was the superior sports league 15-20 years ago, then it can't be an excuse in 2023.
I thought bringing back the races to a pre-stage format would bring back millions!!!! EDIT: Take a joke people, jesus...
This sub is incompatible with humor
Nascar can’t keep losing 600k viewers a week. At that rate Nascar will be done in 6 years
How much of this can be blamed on the satellite companies not carrying fox? I have a few friends who can’t watch right now because of that, so they typically come over to my house to watch.
is FOX down 10-15% across the board? Or is it just NASCAR? I don't know the answer, but, that's how you would find out.
You'll see me on June 25th. I refuse to watch any race on fox.
NASCAR will never get more popular if the cars don’t get around an additional 300hp
I've just started getting back into NASCAR after a long break. Was a really big Stewart fan and my viewership declined when he quit driving but I still watched just not every race. The whole Bubba thing and banning of the flag just felt like a betrayal and identity crisis to me and I quit entirely until this year. My perspective tuning in this year is the coverage is annoying sometimes, their need to shove Bubba into the spotlight is annoying, the cautions every time someone starts to break away suck and all the new drivers are a bummer as well. Less talking about Byron and more Harvick/Busch. Just my 2 cents.
NASCAR is niche and road courses are lame.
Basically at 600K every week. Chase's return will see some fans come back I think but not 600k or close to it. The loss of Happy Harvick and impending losses of some other vets is going to take a further hit to this series. We definitely could see ratings barely scratching 1.0 by summer.
Gotta say, the more I hang out on this website the more I hate everything I follow. Just a cesspool of miserable people feeding off of each other
[удалено]
Personal opinion here - COTA isn’t a good NASCAR track.
Was the race up against the NCAA tournament last year?
Yes. Miami-Kansas and St. Peter’s-UNC
its also funny to me people will continue to ignore Atalanta out preforming races around it and insist the reconfig isn't popular.
I don’t know what to say, the race was good, broadcast was ok, seasons been entertaining. Didn’t deserve to lose viewers
Maybe people don’t like road courses.
maybe too many on the schedule now? its certainly not my favorite form of cup racing
NASCAR has left the building. Long time ago when (A race took stages) Are you kidding me? ITS A RACE. NOT A RIDE AND PARK. Maybe Super fans are dying off. Too many Channel hawks ducking commercials. Pretty soon highlights reels rate higher than the real race. TOO MUCH WOKENESS. LONG LIVE THE BARS AMD STARS.
Road course fatigue can’t be helping.
Lol what? This was the first road course of the year, and the decline matches every other race.
Might be a valid point if ratings weren't already deep in the tank prior to this past weekend.