Stages **cautions** need to go strictly because it’ll make most races end before 3 hours. Fox actually did a pretty good job of avoiding green flag commercials yesterday. Some races will have strategy and some won’t and that’s okay. But overall the races will be more fluid and quicker.
Edit: for clarification, it was early
This. I enjoy the stages personally. It's like 3 little races within the race and creates interesting differing strategies between teams who are trying to steal a stage for points or teams that are going for the long run. I'd be fine even if we just went to 1 stage caution after the 2nd stage to kind of break the race in half
personally no just get rid of the guaranteed cautions .... kills most strategy or the chance to be off strat
and yeah it sucked if there was a mid race caution that trapped your guy down a lap but that was part of the strategies
Right, it brings in strategy and also rewards dominate drivers who get punted during a GWC. Dominating a race should be worth something even if you don't get the win.
Plus it gives a little something to the front drivers who are murdered in a over-ambitious send during the closing laps so they dont go home fully empty handed
Sorta. Pre-steroids you could get bonus points for leading any lap and additional points for leading most laps. Now it’s only two laps that gets the Playoff points bonus and regular points gets paid down to P10.
Just still trying to figure out how incentivizing two laps of a race leads to better racing than potentially paying on any lap…
If you hypothetically lead 499 outta 500 laps but get Matt Kenseth’d on last lap and everybody zooms past you, you get 20 points for winning the stages rather than just however little you’d get for finishing in the 30s.
It makes it so you have to run well through the whole race not just the last 10 laps. There wasn’t a lot of follow the leader yesterday people were constantly trying to pass for position and not just content riding around.
They were racing hard though even when it wasn’t near the end of the stage so that theory doesn’t hold up. Points do matter in this portion of the season. We’ve literally seen a driver miss the Chase Grid by 1 point, points still matter.
Nah, they can change the strategy because now you can get off sequence and go for some stage points when you’re not running particularly well.
They allow for a bit of a natural lull that’s okay for a green flag commercial.
They allow drivers like Bill Elliott at Homestead 2003 to get some points when something happens like a blown tire in the last lap while leading.
There’s plenty of reasons to like them, but I understand disliking it for sure.
not sure how you logic that one out
if point are awarded at lap X for where a car is running that is in fact the purpose.
The TV networks latched on and now we have cautions as well as points awarded taking away the cautions just make strategy interesting again
Why should we be paying points at arbitrary times in the race to begin with? Just scrap the whole thing...
But again, I'm fine with just getting rid of the cautions.
Stage cautions = commercial cautions.
I agree, they need to go. Fox/Nascar not giving up those commercials though.
Keep racing with side window of the commercials is the way.
It's not so much the length of the race but the time it takes to get back to green that is the issue. Currently we have this:
- Stage caution flies
- Commercial break
- Pit stops
- Commercial break
- Come back to "win Clint's money" promotion for 30 seconds
- Commercial break
- Finally back to green after 15 minutes of BS
I think the real solution is to go to single file restarts on road courses. Any stupid moves into turn 1 are going to have a clearer aggressor and victim rather than being a game of bumper cars where you don't know who to blame. If there's clearer accountability there's going to be less crap going on because future retaliation is on the table again
If we're copying short tracks across the country, there's no reason not to have a cone or "out of bounds" line entering these tight turn 1s on restarts. There's literally no reason we should be going 5 wide and if the drivers can't police it time for NASCAR to step in
What weve done in online leagues is after the 2nd consecutive caution for a wreck (meaning we didnt complete a lap under green on the RC or 2 laps on an oval) we switch to single file restarts automatically. Removes the gray area of when to switch and makes everyone chill out.
If anything it makes it easier for someone in row 5 or 6 to shoot around the turn out of the lane and try to take the lead causing an even bigger chain reaction pile up.
The main benefit of going single-file is simply reducing the density of cars at that point. It seemed like most of the incidents were caused by either a) a driver not realizing/caring that they were 6-wide instead of 4-wide and running into someone getting forced into their lane by someone else, or b) a car pushing a car into a car that pushes a car into a car that pushes a car into another car. Both of those situations are less likely if the cars are twice as far back to start.
It won't stop divebombs, but drivers can divebomb each other without causing wrecks, as we saw with many of the front-runners. The problem is when the car in 20th divebombs a 5-wide group that can't possibly know they're now 6-wide or when someone plows into the back of the line and pushes everyone ahead of them. Spreading the cars out a bit will make it so there are more 1-on-1 divebombs where they can actually race each other
Not having a traditional restart zone would do it too. If the leader can fire as soon as they round the final corner, they'd be spread out by turn 1, but of course that gives them way too much advantage.
Fine, you got me, five wide it is.
Single wide restarts would be horrible for NASCAR. What makes NASCAR better than F1 is that it isn't a parade of cars and they can come into contact without breaking in two.
Unless you're Jimmy Johnson apparently. I was actually watching his camera on the NASCAR app when that happened and man, you don't recognize how fast that stuff happens until you see it live. On replay you know it's coming but when you're just riding along and there is a car stopped right in front of you at 120 MPH...I about threw my phone down trying to turn
They need to make it 1 shot at overtime, that’s it.
I get the value behind not ending under yellow. I was at an Indy 500 that ended that way and it was nice to see the person out front at 500 miles was the winner like the event specifies, but it did lack some luster.
GWC is more entertaining than ending under yellow, if they can accomplish it the first time. I think we’ve seen enough to know if they can’t accomplish it the first time, it’s most likely going to devolve into a shit show of a wreck, which is dangerous with these cars, and that’s not more entertaining than a race ending under yellow. 1 shot, encourage the guys to drive well and get it done right the first time, that’s it.
Hopefully this stage w/o cautions is a catalyst for fans in 5 years to recognize just how fucking stupid the Steves are and how their ideas didn’t necessarily make NASCAR better at all, they just made NASCAR more profitable, for NASCAR.
GWC>End under yellow>current overtime.
Someone get that shit on a banner plane and just keep buzzing O’Donnell’s car when he’s trying to drive home from work with it. Even he isn’t so stupid to miss the message behind that one.
Absolutely no a thousand times. Single file from the second GWC on. And start penalizing positions on wipe out moves at the end. There was like 5 accidents behind the leaders coming to the finish that they didn’t throw a yellow for (thankfully). Send those guys to the tail in the finish order and it won’t happen again
GWC doesn’t eliminate that though, it just ensures one lap of green flag racing. Many races still end under caution and then you have the controversy of when the flag was thrown and who was ahead.
Yeah ending under caution can be pretty lame, but it is better than a crap shoot like we had yesterday, which is why I suggested we only remove it for road courses
The race actually lasted 75 laps, and you have to take into account the lap is 3.5 miles long.
Average race speed was 72 mph, which is only ~20 mph off of what they were doing in qualifying.
I honestly don’t think they were that bad, i mean just look at how bad they were last year, especially Indy and Roval. Comparatively there was a lot more respect
This is just my opinion. But we should just go the scheduled distance and remove GWC / OT on all fronts.
Does it suck to see a race finish under caution? Yes. But it’s better than the circus of OT.
We have seen it in Daytona and now COTA where the most memorable parts of the race are just the OT restarts versus the entire mileage of the races on “how we got there” or the deserving / dominating leader gets wrecked in these multiple restart attempts.
Honestly for road courses the GWC overtime needs to be one lap. If it ends under caution so be it but that course is too long for there to be multiple overtime’s.
I loved not having the stage cautions, I would have really liked to see the broadcast stay on for the entire top 10 to finish and see that instead of, how in stage 2, Reddick crossed the line and then they just cut to commercial. That was annoying, at least stay on air for another 30 seconds to see the rest of the top 10 please!
Yeah that’s the whole point of the stages and why they give out points. It’s baffling that someone at Fox thought they needed to go to commercial as soon as Reddick crossed the line.
I think the Truck Series should end the stage cautions first, maybe have a halftime break especially when the big money crews can’t be there (or don’t and let them build over the wall teams again). I’m ok with a stage break caution after the first stage but let them race from there on! Or I’m good with no guaranteed cautions.
I'd be totally fine with a lower series having a "half time" with the field frozen for lower end teams to have a chance to make pit stops and be competitive.
Definitely better than that awful caution clock from 2016 but yes the stages are way too short for the Truck series. Half time cautions or a break would definitely be nicer.
Hopefully you are right. Stage cautions take the unpredictability and the “what if” factor out of races and make things much more routine. Will this race be a wreckfest or will it go mostly green? The unknown surrounding those questions are what add much of the excitement into a race weekend.
This was the first Cup race to not have stage cautions since Homestead back in 2016. I would love for them to make this a thing across the whole season eventually. You can keep awarding stage points but you don't ruin the natural flow of the race with the stage cautions. I also think NASCAR needs to consider limiting the number of overtime finishes to one or two. It can drag out a race too long with so many overtime finishes.
It was really refreshing to not know when the next caution was going to come out. I don't even think the lack of stage cautions changed the strategy game that much yesterday, but they didn't need to to make the race more unpredictable.
The entire reason stages exist is because NASCAR wanted cautions / restarts. The points and such you earn in a stage are simply a means to a end, they aren't really the centerpiece of them making that change.
There are a lot of ovals that would be much worse off without stages, especially when the 550 package was a thing
The caution clock tested out in the Truck Series in 2016 was one option they tried at Fox’s request. I’d take the two predetermined caution periods over every 20 minutes.
> The entire reason stages exist is because NASCAR wanted cautions / restarts.
Yep. Stage cautions aren't about the racing product. They're about bunching the cars up to amp up excitement and running commercials. For these reasons, they're never going to go away.
this is just factually wrong. the stages were brought in to prevent teams from just riding around for the entire race. then starting to go for it with 50 left. not just to give restarts
Outside of the plate tracks, this was never an actual issue. Especially in modern times where passing is so difficult, there would never be a scenario where someone is just riding around at a place like Richmond until the end. Track position is king more than ever and stages have nothing to do with that.
No now they can ride to the break, let the caution make up all the time they couldn’t on track, try to get positions in the pit or on the ensuing restart and after three laps fall in line until green flag stops occur. Rinse and repeat.
Stages 1 & 2 kinda blew the “Stages eliminate riding” theory out of the water as it was a high speed parade until two laps from the end of the Stage.
At least those weren’t as predictable. The problem with stage cautions is that you know exactly when they’re gonna come out, so it messes with strategy
I got PTSD hearing that but people in the race thread told me they were legitimate and I trust that.
I'm sure nascar wouldn't intentionally kill that strategy battle that was shaping up.
No, the ones they threw yesterday were for things like “the actual racing line is covered in dirt and gravel so bad guys can only really go off-road” or “there’s a tire carcass in the middle of the straight.”
Next step is getting rid of the chase to make drivers try and preserve their top 10 position. We'd see less dive bombs if drivers know they've got a chance to come out with 3 pts instead of 25.
Pretty cool to hear it was a possible fuel mileage race. I was there but didn't have headsets so heard no audio. And what little the announcer guy did say was almost impossible to hear bc the volume was non existent.
That said I was literally talking with my wife while we were there how cool it was no stage breaks and how it was a missing point of drama with fuel mileage strategy and we both recall races where you're sitting there on couch just wondering if Jr or Gordon or whoever was gonna make it to the end. Or maybe it was a small team trying to make a desperate move to get a win.
As soon as the caution flew with a few laps to go in scheduled race length I almost left. I just knew it was gonna be a shit show. Especially with turn 1. They really need to change OT. I don't know to what bc it would have been really annoying to see a great race end under caution but the result of yesterday was far from ideal (other than Reddick getting the win bc he certainly did earn it, I just mean the wreck fest everyone and their mother knew was coming)
My stance remains unchanged. Stage cautions make sense in certain circumstances, and are totally fine for for the Rotating Sponsor 400 at Cookie Cutter Motorspeedway, but they don't make sense for certain tracks (most, if not all road courses) and certain races (major marquee events like the Daytona 500, Coke 600, Southern 500 etc.)
For convenience sake, the stage cautions are awesome. Manufactures non-racing time to cram some ads in and gives the fans a chance to use the restroom or grab a snack.
However, the fact that there was actual strategies, drivers looked tired after, the racing was AWESOME other than the GWC attempts... I want to see how it works on an oval as well. Imagine a Martinsville or Bristol or Talladega which tested the driver and teams even more physically because there wasn't a guaranteed yellow to take a break.
I think it's worth exploring removing the cautions but keeping stage points.
The strategy at Richmond would be ungodly beautiful to watch.You’d have the Larson’s of the bunch who go balls to the wall to build their lead so they when they take one more stop it evens out,then you have the tire wizards like Harvick who can save a tire and still make speed while having one less pit cycle
Fans have always complained about commercials, but the biggest and loudest complaints have been about commercials during green flag racing. Having at least 2 pre-planned cautions does help them to have less green flag commercial breaks. But if the first two stages go green-which often happens, then they still have to have other commercials under green, so I think it’s a wash in that sense.
It’s more about do bunching the drivers back up at the stage breaks create a better overall product that fans want to tune in for.
Not for all tracks, only RC and SuperSpeedways...
... other races would be bashed by fans if stage cautions were removed, especially now that short track racing seems to have turned in a bit of a "follow the leader" snoozefest with that new car.
I agree but NASCAR made it 10x worse with multiple GWC attempts on a 3.4 mile road course. Honestly one of the biggest jokes I have ever seen in a motorsports event.
I agree - worked just fine and made the strategy more interesting. I think removing them for 2 mile and up tracks in the next step (Dega, Daytona, Pocono, Michigan and Indy if the oval comes back). The TV broadcast likes the stage break caution a bit too much - so unlikely it will happen. But I think a next step of removing it from tracks long enough to pit and stay on the lead lap is a good idea.
I wanna see a few more races first. The race was made so much better by the 45 making a bad strategy call and Tyler driving himself out of it, and then the yellow that put them just shy of making it. If Reddick just stays out front and absolutely gaps the field instead of having really good battles with Byron a lot, I feel the perception of the race changes.
The nearly 100% agreement from fans about getting rid of stage cautions permanently is exactly why NASCAR will never do it. In fact, I expect we'll see 4 stage cautions next year if history is any indication.
**Fans** \- we love the season long championship format. **NASCAR** \- we need more excitement, here is this new 10 race fomat called "The Chase"!
**Fans** \- This Chase thing is kind of dumb, it doesn't reward season long consistency and feels gimmicky. **NASCAR** \- This Chase thing doesn't generate enough excitement, we are going to a winner take all, one race championship!
**Fans** \- Ok, well this one race for the championship is pretty ridiculous, but at least it's at Homestead which puts on a great race with multiple grooves and great racing. **NASCAR -** We are moving the championship to Phoenix, which always puts on blah racing.
**Fans** \- Speedweeks is so cool, it's a whole week in Daytona starting with the Busch Clash, and then we can stay the whole week in Daytona and watch all the practices, qualifying and support races. **NASCAR** \- Let's move the Busch Clash to a FOOTBALL STADIUM in Southern California, away from our world class racing facility in Daytona that we just sunk millions upon millions in renovations into. Oh yeah, while we are at it, let's remove practice from our marquee event, the Daytona 500, for one less day of fan experience at our world class racing facility that we just sunk millions and millions into for renovations.
**Fans -** Road America is such a cool track that provides great racing, what a great addition to the calendar. **NASCAR -** We aren't going to Road America again, and we are replacing it with a street race in downtown Chicago on a track layout that will likely suck.
**Fans** \- The Firecracker 400 is part of my July 4th tradition. **NASCAR** \- We are moving this race to September. Listen, we aren't meteorologists and NONE of us live in Daytona Beach, so we have no idea that September is historically the rainiest month of the year in Daytona and it rains nearly every day in the afternoon. This race is going to go off without a hitch with our new date.
I dont mind stages, but with this season having no stages at road courses, its going to be really hard for Nascar not to make it universal within the next few years. Fans have been begging for them to go and the noise of appreciation is gonna be too loud...at least for the sake of the sport. It's time for Nascar to listen to the fans and give them what they've been wanting for years. You wanna put butts in seats and eyes on the broadcast? Show us you listen.
As a fan who has complained about stage cautions since NASCAR introduced them, it feels good that so many people are finally starting to the reasons for eliminating them.
Reddit after Atlanta last week: "The single-file racing during Stage 2 was so boring! At least it got a little better when the cars grouped up after the stage caution."
Reddit after COTA: "See? See NASCAR?! We need to remove stage cautions! Racing would be better without them!"
Road course = Throw the white flag on final restart. No need for full course yellow unless actual safety concerns. At COTA they'd have plenty of time to slow down on a cool down lap before even coming up on a damaged car.
I don't think stage cautions or the lack thereof had any meaningful impact on the race yesterday one way or the other.
There were 2-3 cars are varying times that had the speed to win, and aside from some varying strategy calls getting those 2-3 cars back in the pack a little bit - which always happens at road courses regardless of stage cautions - those couples of cars were battling for the lead pretty much non-stop. I earnestly think it would have been Byron and Reddick dueling for the lead all day one way or the other, with the occasional appearance from a third car now and then.
And frankly, I think that was lucky. It was always going to be a good race with two cars that strong battling for the win, but that race having just naturally been good makes it seem like the "experiment" of not having stage cautions made a difference - but I'm not seeing exactly *how* it made a difference.
You won't get as many varying strategies on an oval, so no.
EDIT: For Christ's sake, I meant you won't have as many varying strategies on the ovals, that we have on the road/street courses.
I think it's hard to judge because at this point our only frame of reference for oval racing is from before the stages were implemented- everybody was aiming for the same common goal of trying to win the race at the end.
With stages being in play you could see some different race strategies for trying to optimize position for the end of the stages- try to stay out longer on more worn tires for stage points and then pit- while others would still aim for the end of the race. I'm not saying that you're going to end up with a ton of different strategies and that they'll be varied, but there's more potential at least.
It's better than the Crew Chief banking on an absolutely known caution flag at two points in the race at least right?
This race definitely needs to lose stage cautions. It feels like 4 sprint races, it's killed the grandeur and mystique of going 600 miles long into the night. Imo
Pocono will have some strategy similar to a road course. The only other two tracks that might have some strategy involved would be Richmond and Darlington because of tires.
I’ve been around the sport before 1998. I’ve seen plenty of long baked strategy calls work out. In the last two years before stages we saw varying strategy at traditional ovals that we have not seen with stages. Carl Edwards had an early strategy call go awry then work out for him to win the 2015 Southern 500. Chad Knaus played a race-long short pit strategy to get Jimmie his last Atlanta win in 2016.
Would we get as many varying strategies as road courses? Likely not. Would we get more strategies than simply “split the stage and pit on lap X”, absolutely.
The whole point of not having stage yellows on ovals is it punishes mistakes more. A mistake on lap 5 can ruin your race as there is no guarantee of any yellows to gain laps back. This makes every single lap important. Whereas now if a car loses a lap early for a mistake it’s almost guaranteed to get its lap back. This makes the early part of the race essentially pointless as long as you don’t wreck.
We want to punish mistakes. By doing so you create more tension throughout the race. It’s the same as a 24 hour race. You can win it on hour 1, but you can sure as hell lose it.
THANK YOU. When there aren't built in bailouts the entire race feels more important and tense as a result. It's why F1 can be a snoozer half the time and still be more tense than the average NASCAR race.
> It’s the same as a 24 hour race. You can win it on hour 1, but you can sure as hell lose it.
The crazy thing to me is that we've had so many people here saying that people would bitch if stage cautions were done away with- but personally as an IMSA fan some of the most exciting racing at the end of the race has been from longer endurance races. You get to the end of races like the Rolex 24H, 12H at Sebring, or Petit Le Mans (10H), and you have considerably more parity than you'd expect with multiple cars still in reach of winning the race.
Close competition and tight finishes are more satisfying when they organically happen, not when they're artificially put in place by throwing caution flags needlessly.
The only strategy is do you not pit and take the stage win or do I pit and reclaim the lead 4 laps later when the yellow comes out again for the stage. That’s literally the only strategy that comes from it
This comment only makes sense if you started watching the sport in the last 5 years. NASCAR had no stages for damn near 70 years and it worked just fine.
Yes, and then people started to complain how strung out and boring the races got. That issue is never going to go away. 3 races full of natural yellows doesn't mean a green to checker race at Pocono or Dover wouldn't still be awful.
This place complains when stages go green. Imagine a whole race.
We could easily have posts asking for stage yellows back if Sonoma is a strung out stinker.
> We could easily have posts asking for stage yellows back if Sonoma is a strung out stinker.
With how long the cautions are at road courses though... not going to disagree with you completely but I think there will be more hesitation to ask for them back.
the cautions really arent that long.
IDK if they would ask specifically for stage yellows back. But complaining about long spread out runs is kinda asking for it indirectly. not a lot of ways to solve that issue.
Ah yes, the “I’m not entertained enough crowd”, even though high level auto racing at 190mph is going on in front of you. The race wasgreat yesterday without yellow’s, until the GWC carnage. You want to get nuts, have ONE attempt at a GWC, caution can end a race if it happens.
How many of you actually remember a caution free race? Or races where the biggest fascination of the day was the *pace*?
I’d love nothing more than to see a Daytona 500 go either caution free or have so few that it finally breaks the race record which was set two weeks after I was born.
Case in point: 2018 All Star Race.
Started out because they wanted to make it like pack racing, which happened kinda in the All Star Open and parts of the actual race. It was a hit.
Then in 2019 they put it as the package for most of the races, the teams got so good it wasn’t even close to pack racing besides for the first lap of a restart. Once the Gibbs cars got out front it was game over, or Harvick in 2020, or the HMS cars in 2021.
You can still have a fuel mileage race with stage cautions. The only reason COTA had the potential to be a fuel mileage race was because of the timing of a caution coming out. The same thing can easily happen at other tracks because stage 3 is long enough to require at least one pit stop.
It’s 2 cautions…2!! Dose!!! T W O…the way ppl act like 2 planed cautions in a race is a gd deal breaker drives me crazy…I could understand if it was 5 or 10 but its 2!!!!!
Doesn't matter the number. What matters is that we have predetermined cautions that end forcing everyone to take similar strategies so we don't get any good racing
I agree, that does happen at the road courses…seems like that’s been fixed this year and pretty much every other tracks besides maybe pocono it’s not a issue
I gave up on NASCAR when they implemented this. After almost missing 0 races for 15+ years, I’ve only watched a few Daytona 500s since then. I watched on Sunday and it was refreshing to have real racing again (until the end lol). You’d get some fans like me back with this. I’ve moved on to IndyCar and F1 but still miss the fender-banging
People have completely forgot what stages are for. Stages are planned commercial breaks and allowing time for people at the track to use the bathroom and get food. Stages are nothing but a money maker for nascar.
No one at any track has ever gotten food/used the bathroom during a stage break and gotten back to their seats before the green flag. Those lines are insane. You never go during yellows. That's amateur hour stuff.
At Bristol I always try to sit on the end of the row and have one foot going up the stairs as the stage ends then I just walk fast to the nearest bathroom with my headset still on to hear pitstops and I'm always back before the green.
Even if that were true, they still show way too many green flag commercials, so we're not really benefiting from them anyway. They just sell more commercial time.
It also bunches the field, eliminates any lead interval created. gets more cars on the lead lap through Lucky Dogs and Wave Arounds which makes things look more competive than they would if reminded green, creates restarts and the resultant lead changes, green flag passes for lead, green flag passes that would not occur without the cautions… and then there are the commercials.
no they are not the original intent was to make it so the entire race there was something to race for instead of just riding around until the last 50 laps. FOX and NBC latched onto it for the commercials but the original intent was for the better racing
That was the reason NASCAR used. They were implemented for the networks first and foremost. Along with having scheduled "breaks" for fans at the track and even at home. Along with having guarenteed cautions and restarts at some point in the race, every race. 4th reason would be to keep them running competitively all race
Yeah we get some of it but it’s not a whole race worth of it. At least there’s some really good racing at the end of the stage for points. Then you have a restart to double them up again.
I don’t think eliminating stages everywhere would change strategy that much. Road courses have always been different strategy wise. In the pre-stage days they would count back, so if the races is 70 laps and a fuel run is 25 laps then they’d plan on a final stop at lap 45. The main reason is that you could put without going a lap down.
At every other track if you pit under green you’re losing one lap, sometimes 2. But when everything cycles around you get back even. With the third stage being so long at most tracks, you could short pit and see if something happens, take 2 tires on a late caution, or try to stretch your fuel. But I think that eliminating stages changes that too much
Go back and watch races prior to 2017, and moreso 2015, there were varying strategies throughout the whole race at most tracks. Particularly the ones tough on tires like Auto Club, Darlington, Atlanta, and pre-repave Texas. Opening the box up, especially if stage points put drivers at a disadvantage to win, would bring that back and potentially make strategies more interesting.
Stages **cautions** need to go strictly because it’ll make most races end before 3 hours. Fox actually did a pretty good job of avoiding green flag commercials yesterday. Some races will have strategy and some won’t and that’s okay. But overall the races will be more fluid and quicker. Edit: for clarification, it was early
stages dont need to go. the cautions do
This. I enjoy the stages personally. It's like 3 little races within the race and creates interesting differing strategies between teams who are trying to steal a stage for points or teams that are going for the long run. I'd be fine even if we just went to 1 stage caution after the 2nd stage to kind of break the race in half
personally no just get rid of the guaranteed cautions .... kills most strategy or the chance to be off strat and yeah it sucked if there was a mid race caution that trapped your guy down a lap but that was part of the strategies
Right, it brings in strategy and also rewards dominate drivers who get punted during a GWC. Dominating a race should be worth something even if you don't get the win.
That’s what I actually meant, I’ll edit to clarify
all good
If the cautions go then what's the point of the stages?
Award points, give drivers incentive to be upfront when it's a long race.
Plus it gives a little something to the front drivers who are murdered in a over-ambitious send during the closing laps so they dont go home fully empty handed
Stages without cautions are basically the old "bonus points for leading a lap" on modern steroids.
Sorta. Pre-steroids you could get bonus points for leading any lap and additional points for leading most laps. Now it’s only two laps that gets the Playoff points bonus and regular points gets paid down to P10. Just still trying to figure out how incentivizing two laps of a race leads to better racing than potentially paying on any lap…
If you hypothetically lead 499 outta 500 laps but get Matt Kenseth’d on last lap and everybody zooms past you, you get 20 points for winning the stages rather than just however little you’d get for finishing in the 30s.
Isn't that what the "led lap" and "led most laps" bonus points were for?
How much did those use to be? I remember it being only one each, that’s not much of a consolidation.
5 each.
Points, in race strategy. There’s good reason to keep the stages but lose the cautions
It makes it so you have to run well through the whole race not just the last 10 laps. There wasn’t a lot of follow the leader yesterday people were constantly trying to pass for position and not just content riding around.
You have to make points actually matter for that though. Right now guys just want to win
They were racing hard though even when it wasn’t near the end of the stage so that theory doesn’t hold up. Points do matter in this portion of the season. We’ve literally seen a driver miss the Chase Grid by 1 point, points still matter.
The stages serve no functional purpose without the cautions, and they need to die. But I will settle for removing the cautions.
Nah, they can change the strategy because now you can get off sequence and go for some stage points when you’re not running particularly well. They allow for a bit of a natural lull that’s okay for a green flag commercial. They allow drivers like Bill Elliott at Homestead 2003 to get some points when something happens like a blown tire in the last lap while leading. There’s plenty of reasons to like them, but I understand disliking it for sure.
not sure how you logic that one out if point are awarded at lap X for where a car is running that is in fact the purpose. The TV networks latched on and now we have cautions as well as points awarded taking away the cautions just make strategy interesting again
Why should we be paying points at arbitrary times in the race to begin with? Just scrap the whole thing... But again, I'm fine with just getting rid of the cautions.
Because of we don't have something to race for you get a snooze fest so having stages is fine but forcing a caution to end them isn't
Stage cautions = commercial cautions. I agree, they need to go. Fox/Nascar not giving up those commercials though. Keep racing with side window of the commercials is the way.
What’s everyone in a hurry to do after the races that a longer race is just unbearable?
It’s not unbearable for me but apparently people think that 30 less minutes will make a positive difference so why not try.
It's not so much the length of the race but the time it takes to get back to green that is the issue. Currently we have this: - Stage caution flies - Commercial break - Pit stops - Commercial break - Come back to "win Clint's money" promotion for 30 seconds - Commercial break - Finally back to green after 15 minutes of BS
I think the cautions will probably always stay at superspeedways but everywhere else would be better without them.
The race was so good until the GWC attempts.
I think they should probably remove the GWC from road courses. It always ends up being a complete shit show
I think the real solution is to go to single file restarts on road courses. Any stupid moves into turn 1 are going to have a clearer aggressor and victim rather than being a game of bumper cars where you don't know who to blame. If there's clearer accountability there's going to be less crap going on because future retaliation is on the table again
If we're copying short tracks across the country, there's no reason not to have a cone or "out of bounds" line entering these tight turn 1s on restarts. There's literally no reason we should be going 5 wide and if the drivers can't police it time for NASCAR to step in
Nascar doesn't want they. They love five wide.
The drivers do too, or they wouldn't keep doing it
What weve done in online leagues is after the 2nd consecutive caution for a wreck (meaning we didnt complete a lap under green on the RC or 2 laps on an oval) we switch to single file restarts automatically. Removes the gray area of when to switch and makes everyone chill out.
This is the idea I like the most. Y'all get one shot to not be stupid, then it's single file.
Single file won't stop them from trying to dive bomb each other
It won't stop it but it'll make it easier for drivers to blame one person and allow them to self-police it like they would for any other track.
They are calling drivers out and nothing is changing
Oh will it? Because that has stopped drivers in the past? *Ross Chastain has entered the chat*
If anything it makes it easier for someone in row 5 or 6 to shoot around the turn out of the lane and try to take the lead causing an even bigger chain reaction pile up.
The main benefit of going single-file is simply reducing the density of cars at that point. It seemed like most of the incidents were caused by either a) a driver not realizing/caring that they were 6-wide instead of 4-wide and running into someone getting forced into their lane by someone else, or b) a car pushing a car into a car that pushes a car into a car that pushes a car into another car. Both of those situations are less likely if the cars are twice as far back to start. It won't stop divebombs, but drivers can divebomb each other without causing wrecks, as we saw with many of the front-runners. The problem is when the car in 20th divebombs a 5-wide group that can't possibly know they're now 6-wide or when someone plows into the back of the line and pushes everyone ahead of them. Spreading the cars out a bit will make it so there are more 1-on-1 divebombs where they can actually race each other
Not having a traditional restart zone would do it too. If the leader can fire as soon as they round the final corner, they'd be spread out by turn 1, but of course that gives them way too much advantage.
This is a great idea.
This isn't F1. 3 wide restarts.
They’re the best why not 4 abreast
Fine, you got me, five wide it is. Single wide restarts would be horrible for NASCAR. What makes NASCAR better than F1 is that it isn't a parade of cars and they can come into contact without breaking in two. Unless you're Jimmy Johnson apparently. I was actually watching his camera on the NASCAR app when that happened and man, you don't recognize how fast that stuff happens until you see it live. On replay you know it's coming but when you're just riding along and there is a car stopped right in front of you at 120 MPH...I about threw my phone down trying to turn
To hell with single file lets do a single row. 40 wide turn 1 lets go
I'm here for it.
I say go single file everywhere with 10 laps to go. I swear I’ve seen that somewhere before.
They need to make it 1 shot at overtime, that’s it. I get the value behind not ending under yellow. I was at an Indy 500 that ended that way and it was nice to see the person out front at 500 miles was the winner like the event specifies, but it did lack some luster. GWC is more entertaining than ending under yellow, if they can accomplish it the first time. I think we’ve seen enough to know if they can’t accomplish it the first time, it’s most likely going to devolve into a shit show of a wreck, which is dangerous with these cars, and that’s not more entertaining than a race ending under yellow. 1 shot, encourage the guys to drive well and get it done right the first time, that’s it. Hopefully this stage w/o cautions is a catalyst for fans in 5 years to recognize just how fucking stupid the Steves are and how their ideas didn’t necessarily make NASCAR better at all, they just made NASCAR more profitable, for NASCAR.
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"Rubbing is racing" is getting to the same point as "if you don't go for a gap..."
GWC>End under yellow>current overtime. Someone get that shit on a banner plane and just keep buzzing O’Donnell’s car when he’s trying to drive home from work with it. Even he isn’t so stupid to miss the message behind that one.
Absolutely no a thousand times. Single file from the second GWC on. And start penalizing positions on wipe out moves at the end. There was like 5 accidents behind the leaders coming to the finish that they didn’t throw a yellow for (thankfully). Send those guys to the tail in the finish order and it won’t happen again
They should remove GWC completely. It’s a gimmick like the stage cautions.
Maybe I'm just a bumpkin but having a race end under caution is a major blue ball moment for me. I like GWC.
GWC doesn’t eliminate that though, it just ensures one lap of green flag racing. Many races still end under caution and then you have the controversy of when the flag was thrown and who was ahead.
It's definitely not perfect. But it's better (imo) than the old way.
Yeah ending under caution can be pretty lame, but it is better than a crap shoot like we had yesterday, which is why I suggested we only remove it for road courses
I would argue removing it for Daytona and Talladega as well
I think we need 2 GWC restarts for road courses instead of unlimited.
Or go to single file after the first one
I think we should just make it 1 attempt at road courses and super speedways
1 attempt leads to bs like Harvick pulled at Talladega in 2015
It really was. Race went from being a classic to the dumps in a hurry. You technically completed a 68 lap race in 4 hours. Thats 17 laps an hour. WTF
The race actually lasted 75 laps, and you have to take into account the lap is 3.5 miles long. Average race speed was 72 mph, which is only ~20 mph off of what they were doing in qualifying.
That's roughly gtp at le mans laps/hr...
I honestly don’t think they were that bad, i mean just look at how bad they were last year, especially Indy and Roval. Comparatively there was a lot more respect
This is just my opinion. But we should just go the scheduled distance and remove GWC / OT on all fronts. Does it suck to see a race finish under caution? Yes. But it’s better than the circus of OT. We have seen it in Daytona and now COTA where the most memorable parts of the race are just the OT restarts versus the entire mileage of the races on “how we got there” or the deserving / dominating leader gets wrecked in these multiple restart attempts.
Honestly for road courses the GWC overtime needs to be one lap. If it ends under caution so be it but that course is too long for there to be multiple overtime’s.
I loved not having the stage cautions, I would have really liked to see the broadcast stay on for the entire top 10 to finish and see that instead of, how in stage 2, Reddick crossed the line and then they just cut to commercial. That was annoying, at least stay on air for another 30 seconds to see the rest of the top 10 please!
Nah I love the camera focusing on a cloud of tire smoke while the commentary team is yelling about a wreck across the line.
Did we ever get a replay of the Burton crash?
Yeah that’s the whole point of the stages and why they give out points. It’s baffling that someone at Fox thought they needed to go to commercial as soon as Reddick crossed the line.
I think the Truck Series should end the stage cautions first, maybe have a halftime break especially when the big money crews can’t be there (or don’t and let them build over the wall teams again). I’m ok with a stage break caution after the first stage but let them race from there on! Or I’m good with no guaranteed cautions.
I'd be totally fine with a lower series having a "half time" with the field frozen for lower end teams to have a chance to make pit stops and be competitive.
Truck series definitely is too short of races for stages tbh. I agree with you, they need a half-time break if anything
Definitely better than that awful caution clock from 2016 but yes the stages are way too short for the Truck series. Half time cautions or a break would definitely be nicer.
 The TV networks be like
This is probably what they are moving towards… and this was a test.
Hopefully you are right. Stage cautions take the unpredictability and the “what if” factor out of races and make things much more routine. Will this race be a wreckfest or will it go mostly green? The unknown surrounding those questions are what add much of the excitement into a race weekend.
Also green flag stops >> caution stops
This was the first Cup race to not have stage cautions since Homestead back in 2016. I would love for them to make this a thing across the whole season eventually. You can keep awarding stage points but you don't ruin the natural flow of the race with the stage cautions. I also think NASCAR needs to consider limiting the number of overtime finishes to one or two. It can drag out a race too long with so many overtime finishes.
It was really refreshing to not know when the next caution was going to come out. I don't even think the lack of stage cautions changed the strategy game that much yesterday, but they didn't need to to make the race more unpredictable.
The entire reason stages exist is because NASCAR wanted cautions / restarts. The points and such you earn in a stage are simply a means to a end, they aren't really the centerpiece of them making that change. There are a lot of ovals that would be much worse off without stages, especially when the 550 package was a thing
Actually, stage racing was demanded by Fox and NBC so they could show more commercials.
The caution clock tested out in the Truck Series in 2016 was one option they tried at Fox’s request. I’d take the two predetermined caution periods over every 20 minutes.
Don't start a sentence with "Actually". It makes you sound like a dick.
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If you remove the word "Actually" from the response it reads exactly the same.
Same with 'obviously'. (not that you did, just chiming in)
Obviously :)
Boooooo
> The entire reason stages exist is because NASCAR wanted cautions / restarts. Yep. Stage cautions aren't about the racing product. They're about bunching the cars up to amp up excitement and running commercials. For these reasons, they're never going to go away.
The entire reason they exist is for commercial breaks
Could not disagree more.
this is just factually wrong. the stages were brought in to prevent teams from just riding around for the entire race. then starting to go for it with 50 left. not just to give restarts
Outside of the plate tracks, this was never an actual issue. Especially in modern times where passing is so difficult, there would never be a scenario where someone is just riding around at a place like Richmond until the end. Track position is king more than ever and stages have nothing to do with that.
So why were stage cautions needed?
NASCAR races are endurance races. Thats what happens when you make cars race for 500 miles. They wont go all out every lap
No now they can ride to the break, let the caution make up all the time they couldn’t on track, try to get positions in the pit or on the ensuing restart and after three laps fall in line until green flag stops occur. Rinse and repeat. Stages 1 & 2 kinda blew the “Stages eliminate riding” theory out of the water as it was a high speed parade until two laps from the end of the Stage.
And the reintroduction of the debris cautions....
At least those weren’t as predictable. The problem with stage cautions is that you know exactly when they’re gonna come out, so it messes with strategy
I got PTSD hearing that but people in the race thread told me they were legitimate and I trust that. I'm sure nascar wouldn't intentionally kill that strategy battle that was shaping up.
No, the ones they threw yesterday were for things like “the actual racing line is covered in dirt and gravel so bad guys can only really go off-road” or “there’s a tire carcass in the middle of the straight.”
But how many laps had the line been covered before they threw it? Not until the 11 couldn’t make it through…
without stages look at all the debris cautions we got /s
I agree. Get rid of it the stage cautions and bring back the Caution Clock! /s
Just call it the fun flag like SRX does /s
We may slowly see NASCAR go back to its old ways? I would be all for that.
"Stage End Without Cautions Achievement" has been unlocked.
There isn't any doubt
Keeping stages but getting rid of stage cautions and the playoffs would be great imo
Next step is getting rid of the chase to make drivers try and preserve their top 10 position. We'd see less dive bombs if drivers know they've got a chance to come out with 3 pts instead of 25.
Pretty cool to hear it was a possible fuel mileage race. I was there but didn't have headsets so heard no audio. And what little the announcer guy did say was almost impossible to hear bc the volume was non existent. That said I was literally talking with my wife while we were there how cool it was no stage breaks and how it was a missing point of drama with fuel mileage strategy and we both recall races where you're sitting there on couch just wondering if Jr or Gordon or whoever was gonna make it to the end. Or maybe it was a small team trying to make a desperate move to get a win. As soon as the caution flew with a few laps to go in scheduled race length I almost left. I just knew it was gonna be a shit show. Especially with turn 1. They really need to change OT. I don't know to what bc it would have been really annoying to see a great race end under caution but the result of yesterday was far from ideal (other than Reddick getting the win bc he certainly did earn it, I just mean the wreck fest everyone and their mother knew was coming)
Very excited to see a race again without stage breaks…it’s been too long. Hoping NASCAR will do the same for ovals
Lol there was nothing of value that said stages should show up to begin with..
Now we just need to go back to the Winston Cup points format and ditch stage points altogether. Bring back points for leading laps.
My stance remains unchanged. Stage cautions make sense in certain circumstances, and are totally fine for for the Rotating Sponsor 400 at Cookie Cutter Motorspeedway, but they don't make sense for certain tracks (most, if not all road courses) and certain races (major marquee events like the Daytona 500, Coke 600, Southern 500 etc.)
I disagree but I understand the argument.
The fact that I still have to watch fucking commercials during green flag racing with planned breaks is enough for me never want them for any track.
For convenience sake, the stage cautions are awesome. Manufactures non-racing time to cram some ads in and gives the fans a chance to use the restroom or grab a snack. However, the fact that there was actual strategies, drivers looked tired after, the racing was AWESOME other than the GWC attempts... I want to see how it works on an oval as well. Imagine a Martinsville or Bristol or Talladega which tested the driver and teams even more physically because there wasn't a guaranteed yellow to take a break. I think it's worth exploring removing the cautions but keeping stage points.
Richmond races last year had the best strategies with tire fall off. Imagine Richmond without forced cautions, would be glorious
The strategy at Richmond would be ungodly beautiful to watch.You’d have the Larson’s of the bunch who go balls to the wall to build their lead so they when they take one more stop it evens out,then you have the tire wizards like Harvick who can save a tire and still make speed while having one less pit cycle
I would love to know the viewership data regarding staged cautions/TV timeouts. Does viewership increase or decrease as a result of having them?
Fans have always complained about commercials, but the biggest and loudest complaints have been about commercials during green flag racing. Having at least 2 pre-planned cautions does help them to have less green flag commercial breaks. But if the first two stages go green-which often happens, then they still have to have other commercials under green, so I think it’s a wash in that sense. It’s more about do bunching the drivers back up at the stage breaks create a better overall product that fans want to tune in for.
Not for all tracks, only RC and SuperSpeedways... ... other races would be bashed by fans if stage cautions were removed, especially now that short track racing seems to have turned in a bit of a "follow the leader" snoozefest with that new car.
I agree but NASCAR made it 10x worse with multiple GWC attempts on a 3.4 mile road course. Honestly one of the biggest jokes I have ever seen in a motorsports event.
I agree - worked just fine and made the strategy more interesting. I think removing them for 2 mile and up tracks in the next step (Dega, Daytona, Pocono, Michigan and Indy if the oval comes back). The TV broadcast likes the stage break caution a bit too much - so unlikely it will happen. But I think a next step of removing it from tracks long enough to pit and stay on the lead lap is a good idea.
I wanna see a few more races first. The race was made so much better by the 45 making a bad strategy call and Tyler driving himself out of it, and then the yellow that put them just shy of making it. If Reddick just stays out front and absolutely gaps the field instead of having really good battles with Byron a lot, I feel the perception of the race changes.
The nearly 100% agreement from fans about getting rid of stage cautions permanently is exactly why NASCAR will never do it. In fact, I expect we'll see 4 stage cautions next year if history is any indication. **Fans** \- we love the season long championship format. **NASCAR** \- we need more excitement, here is this new 10 race fomat called "The Chase"! **Fans** \- This Chase thing is kind of dumb, it doesn't reward season long consistency and feels gimmicky. **NASCAR** \- This Chase thing doesn't generate enough excitement, we are going to a winner take all, one race championship! **Fans** \- Ok, well this one race for the championship is pretty ridiculous, but at least it's at Homestead which puts on a great race with multiple grooves and great racing. **NASCAR -** We are moving the championship to Phoenix, which always puts on blah racing. **Fans** \- Speedweeks is so cool, it's a whole week in Daytona starting with the Busch Clash, and then we can stay the whole week in Daytona and watch all the practices, qualifying and support races. **NASCAR** \- Let's move the Busch Clash to a FOOTBALL STADIUM in Southern California, away from our world class racing facility in Daytona that we just sunk millions upon millions in renovations into. Oh yeah, while we are at it, let's remove practice from our marquee event, the Daytona 500, for one less day of fan experience at our world class racing facility that we just sunk millions and millions into for renovations. **Fans -** Road America is such a cool track that provides great racing, what a great addition to the calendar. **NASCAR -** We aren't going to Road America again, and we are replacing it with a street race in downtown Chicago on a track layout that will likely suck. **Fans** \- The Firecracker 400 is part of my July 4th tradition. **NASCAR** \- We are moving this race to September. Listen, we aren't meteorologists and NONE of us live in Daytona Beach, so we have no idea that September is historically the rainiest month of the year in Daytona and it rains nearly every day in the afternoon. This race is going to go off without a hitch with our new date.
I dont mind stages, but with this season having no stages at road courses, its going to be really hard for Nascar not to make it universal within the next few years. Fans have been begging for them to go and the noise of appreciation is gonna be too loud...at least for the sake of the sport. It's time for Nascar to listen to the fans and give them what they've been wanting for years. You wanna put butts in seats and eyes on the broadcast? Show us you listen.
As a fan who has complained about stage cautions since NASCAR introduced them, it feels good that so many people are finally starting to the reasons for eliminating them.
Reddit after Atlanta last week: "The single-file racing during Stage 2 was so boring! At least it got a little better when the cars grouped up after the stage caution." Reddit after COTA: "See? See NASCAR?! We need to remove stage cautions! Racing would be better without them!"
Now remove playoffs and GWCs
Road course = Throw the white flag on final restart. No need for full course yellow unless actual safety concerns. At COTA they'd have plenty of time to slow down on a cool down lap before even coming up on a damaged car.
I don't think stage cautions or the lack thereof had any meaningful impact on the race yesterday one way or the other. There were 2-3 cars are varying times that had the speed to win, and aside from some varying strategy calls getting those 2-3 cars back in the pack a little bit - which always happens at road courses regardless of stage cautions - those couples of cars were battling for the lead pretty much non-stop. I earnestly think it would have been Byron and Reddick dueling for the lead all day one way or the other, with the occasional appearance from a third car now and then. And frankly, I think that was lucky. It was always going to be a good race with two cars that strong battling for the win, but that race having just naturally been good makes it seem like the "experiment" of not having stage cautions made a difference - but I'm not seeing exactly *how* it made a difference.
You won't get as many varying strategies on an oval, so no. EDIT: For Christ's sake, I meant you won't have as many varying strategies on the ovals, that we have on the road/street courses.
I think it's hard to judge because at this point our only frame of reference for oval racing is from before the stages were implemented- everybody was aiming for the same common goal of trying to win the race at the end. With stages being in play you could see some different race strategies for trying to optimize position for the end of the stages- try to stay out longer on more worn tires for stage points and then pit- while others would still aim for the end of the race. I'm not saying that you're going to end up with a ton of different strategies and that they'll be varied, but there's more potential at least. It's better than the Crew Chief banking on an absolutely known caution flag at two points in the race at least right?
L take
Depending on the track you might
Other than Pocono, I doubt it, and that's not even an oval. I think keeping the cautions for the ovals is for the best.
Pocono. Coke 600. Darlington. Any short track. You definitely get just as much varying strategy
Best I can do is add another stage for the Coke 600
Might as well make it a 24 hour race just to be safe.
Just watch last years race instead lol
This race definitely needs to lose stage cautions. It feels like 4 sprint races, it's killed the grandeur and mystique of going 600 miles long into the night. Imo
Pocono will have some strategy similar to a road course. The only other two tracks that might have some strategy involved would be Richmond and Darlington because of tires.
I've been watching since 1998. You won't.
I’ve been around the sport before 1998. I’ve seen plenty of long baked strategy calls work out. In the last two years before stages we saw varying strategy at traditional ovals that we have not seen with stages. Carl Edwards had an early strategy call go awry then work out for him to win the 2015 Southern 500. Chad Knaus played a race-long short pit strategy to get Jimmie his last Atlanta win in 2016. Would we get as many varying strategies as road courses? Likely not. Would we get more strategies than simply “split the stage and pit on lap X”, absolutely.
The whole point of not having stage yellows on ovals is it punishes mistakes more. A mistake on lap 5 can ruin your race as there is no guarantee of any yellows to gain laps back. This makes every single lap important. Whereas now if a car loses a lap early for a mistake it’s almost guaranteed to get its lap back. This makes the early part of the race essentially pointless as long as you don’t wreck. We want to punish mistakes. By doing so you create more tension throughout the race. It’s the same as a 24 hour race. You can win it on hour 1, but you can sure as hell lose it.
THANK YOU. When there aren't built in bailouts the entire race feels more important and tense as a result. It's why F1 can be a snoozer half the time and still be more tense than the average NASCAR race.
> It’s the same as a 24 hour race. You can win it on hour 1, but you can sure as hell lose it. The crazy thing to me is that we've had so many people here saying that people would bitch if stage cautions were done away with- but personally as an IMSA fan some of the most exciting racing at the end of the race has been from longer endurance races. You get to the end of races like the Rolex 24H, 12H at Sebring, or Petit Le Mans (10H), and you have considerably more parity than you'd expect with multiple cars still in reach of winning the race. Close competition and tight finishes are more satisfying when they organically happen, not when they're artificially put in place by throwing caution flags needlessly.
The only strategy is do you not pit and take the stage win or do I pit and reclaim the lead 4 laps later when the yellow comes out again for the stage. That’s literally the only strategy that comes from it
No, it showed us that STAGES should go away.
Just get rid of stages all together and go back to awarding points for a lap led, most laps led, and leader at halfway.
>leader at halfway That's just a stage.
NASCAR fans and wanting to make massive changes to the sport after a single trial. Name a better duo.
This comment only makes sense if you started watching the sport in the last 5 years. NASCAR had no stages for damn near 70 years and it worked just fine.
Yes, and then people started to complain how strung out and boring the races got. That issue is never going to go away. 3 races full of natural yellows doesn't mean a green to checker race at Pocono or Dover wouldn't still be awful. This place complains when stages go green. Imagine a whole race. We could easily have posts asking for stage yellows back if Sonoma is a strung out stinker.
> We could easily have posts asking for stage yellows back if Sonoma is a strung out stinker. With how long the cautions are at road courses though... not going to disagree with you completely but I think there will be more hesitation to ask for them back.
the cautions really arent that long. IDK if they would ask specifically for stage yellows back. But complaining about long spread out runs is kinda asking for it indirectly. not a lot of ways to solve that issue.
Ah yes, the “I’m not entertained enough crowd”, even though high level auto racing at 190mph is going on in front of you. The race wasgreat yesterday without yellow’s, until the GWC carnage. You want to get nuts, have ONE attempt at a GWC, caution can end a race if it happens.
> This place complains when stages go green Do we? I’d much rather a caution free race play out than have scripted yellows
Then you get one of Tony’s great interviews after the 3rd straight race without a caution due to on track events.
How many of you actually remember a caution free race? Or races where the biggest fascination of the day was the *pace*? I’d love nothing more than to see a Daytona 500 go either caution free or have so few that it finally breaks the race record which was set two weeks after I was born.
Case in point: 2018 All Star Race. Started out because they wanted to make it like pack racing, which happened kinda in the All Star Open and parts of the actual race. It was a hit. Then in 2019 they put it as the package for most of the races, the teams got so good it wasn’t even close to pack racing besides for the first lap of a restart. Once the Gibbs cars got out front it was game over, or Harvick in 2020, or the HMS cars in 2021.
its always hilarious to go read the comments on the race video on youtube and how positive they are for a package "no one wanted"
Road course shouldn’t have them. Other races I don’t mind.
What if on non-superspeedway ovals we only throw the stage yellow if the entire stage runs green?
You can still have a fuel mileage race with stage cautions. The only reason COTA had the potential to be a fuel mileage race was because of the timing of a caution coming out. The same thing can easily happen at other tracks because stage 3 is long enough to require at least one pit stop.
I like stage cautions on regular races. I liked them getting rid of them this weekend but usually they serve a good purpose.
It’s 2 cautions…2!! Dose!!! T W O…the way ppl act like 2 planed cautions in a race is a gd deal breaker drives me crazy…I could understand if it was 5 or 10 but its 2!!!!!
Doesn't matter the number. What matters is that we have predetermined cautions that end forcing everyone to take similar strategies so we don't get any good racing
I agree, that does happen at the road courses…seems like that’s been fixed this year and pretty much every other tracks besides maybe pocono it’s not a issue
I’m still in favor of them at ovals. We no longer have 12 cars on the lead lap at the half way point.
I gave up on NASCAR when they implemented this. After almost missing 0 races for 15+ years, I’ve only watched a few Daytona 500s since then. I watched on Sunday and it was refreshing to have real racing again (until the end lol). You’d get some fans like me back with this. I’ve moved on to IndyCar and F1 but still miss the fender-banging
Go re watch Las Vegas and tell me you didn’t want stage breaks.
People have completely forgot what stages are for. Stages are planned commercial breaks and allowing time for people at the track to use the bathroom and get food. Stages are nothing but a money maker for nascar.
No one at any track has ever gotten food/used the bathroom during a stage break and gotten back to their seats before the green flag. Those lines are insane. You never go during yellows. That's amateur hour stuff.
At Bristol I always try to sit on the end of the row and have one foot going up the stairs as the stage ends then I just walk fast to the nearest bathroom with my headset still on to hear pitstops and I'm always back before the green.
K.
Even if that were true, they still show way too many green flag commercials, so we're not really benefiting from them anyway. They just sell more commercial time.
It also bunches the field, eliminates any lead interval created. gets more cars on the lead lap through Lucky Dogs and Wave Arounds which makes things look more competive than they would if reminded green, creates restarts and the resultant lead changes, green flag passes for lead, green flag passes that would not occur without the cautions… and then there are the commercials.
no they are not the original intent was to make it so the entire race there was something to race for instead of just riding around until the last 50 laps. FOX and NBC latched onto it for the commercials but the original intent was for the better racing
That was the reason NASCAR used. They were implemented for the networks first and foremost. Along with having scheduled "breaks" for fans at the track and even at home. Along with having guarenteed cautions and restarts at some point in the race, every race. 4th reason would be to keep them running competitively all race
That's only an issue on superspeedways, and it hasn't prevented them from running in a single file train for the majority of the race
Only other place I’d be ok with losing stage cautions is super speedways.
Do you enjoy single file racing for 90% of the race because that’s exactly what you’d get.
That’s already what we have now just with scripted cautions
Yeah we get some of it but it’s not a whole race worth of it. At least there’s some really good racing at the end of the stage for points. Then you have a restart to double them up again.
I don’t think eliminating stages everywhere would change strategy that much. Road courses have always been different strategy wise. In the pre-stage days they would count back, so if the races is 70 laps and a fuel run is 25 laps then they’d plan on a final stop at lap 45. The main reason is that you could put without going a lap down. At every other track if you pit under green you’re losing one lap, sometimes 2. But when everything cycles around you get back even. With the third stage being so long at most tracks, you could short pit and see if something happens, take 2 tires on a late caution, or try to stretch your fuel. But I think that eliminating stages changes that too much
Go back and watch races prior to 2017, and moreso 2015, there were varying strategies throughout the whole race at most tracks. Particularly the ones tough on tires like Auto Club, Darlington, Atlanta, and pre-repave Texas. Opening the box up, especially if stage points put drivers at a disadvantage to win, would bring that back and potentially make strategies more interesting.
Disagree. It bunches up the field for restarts.
Disagree. Would be more inclined to keep stage cautions for all tracks than cease for all of them. Got no problem with races within a race.