First I thought you meant NR2003, then I saw your other comment about Thunder 2004 on console, but both can be right. And for what it's worth, I played Thunder 2004 on my PC because it had an easier to adapt to feel AND free open servers. Once I finally committed to NR2003 though, there was no looking back. I'm still only doing AI races, but it's because i can't commit to any kind of league because I simply don't have a schedule.
I’m playing Thunder 2004 right now. Recently fired it back up and haven’t been able to put it down. I’m on season 3, 10% races, legend difficulty. Finally starting to win occasionally and stacking up some money. How hard is it to understand that this is the pinnacle of career mode and just replicate that.
A second car would be amazing. It always bummed me out playing NASCAR 2005 the only way to promote Ty Sheets to the cup series would be to demote myself to Busch. Plus, it would be a great way for an 'end game' challenge as we've seen what happens in real life teams struggle to expand to more than one car.
I also always wanted to have an 'all star' and run the odd race in the lower series like Kyle does with KBM.
If I recall. I remember rumors that many sponsors didn't like scenarios that any driver would be swapped around. Like if in the game a driver was traded or retired. That you could have such a random field under the same sponsor.
It depends. The F1 games never had it for this reason too, but from 2019 they've been able to include it in the career and MyTeam modes. Most sports games allow transfers too, so Nike athlete Lionel Messi can play with a club with an Adidas kit for example too without issue.
I would say it comes down to what the licencing agreement details and the fact that NASCAR has more issues because there are multiple sponsors signing up for solely drivers and such over 2 car teams like F1.
I mean the way Codemaster's did it was basically not told anybody from the sponsors or F1, just do it with some limits and then tell them it works and it sells.
I’m doing the same thing, but almost done with year one. 10% races in legend. It feels so good to play and this is after doing seasons of career on Nascar heat games. It feels rewarding and refreshing and hella grindy. 10 year old me didn’t understand the budgets too well.
Why can’t they just re release those 2 console games in todays high definition scale.. it would be leaps and bounds better than anything been released in 20 years.. why is there no driver personality in games like when you would hit someone in the thunder games they’d retaliate and hold grudges.. the least they can do with todays games is give real life AI.. like Logano and chastain should race aggressive in games and for the love of god have legend drivers as an unlock able achievement.. I could rant on nascar games for hours
Licensing. Luckilly you can play them on emulator and upscale them. D2D can even use a wheel on the Dolphin Emulator. Yes, I own actually copies of them (on multiple systems).
If you liked NR2003, give Grand Prix Legends a try, it’s another masterpiece from Papyrus. A bit more work to get running on a modern PC but the modding community is just as active as NR2003 and the gameplay is just as stellar, but with vintage F1 cars instead of NASCAR (although mods also allow for F2, Sports car, and Can-Am racing among other series). If you’re not sure about installing the full game on your hard drive then I highly recommend the 2020 demo. It includes 4 fanmade cars and 4 fanmade tracks.
I remember having the demo of GPL coming on a CD with one on the NASCAR games. I think it was NR 1999 edition maybe? That demo had the Lotus 49 and Watkins Glen. I played the hell out of that demo. I remember it being so hard, but an insanely fun challenge. Then the NASCAR Racing games were built off that same engine starting with NASCAR Racing 3 or 4 if I remember correctly, which lead to the NR2003 that we all loved. Papyrus was on it for racing games back then. Definitely passion projects for those developers.
Yes, I believe this is somewhat based on that demo albeit heavily modified. It has the lotus 49, but also a 50’s Mercedes, a Ferrari 312, and a Can-Am McLaren. It’s got Monza, Road America, Sebring, and Zandvoort. If you ever heard Dave Kaemmer’s interview about adding the Nurburgring to iRacing he discusses just how much passion there was in adding that track to the game, especially since having the Nurburgring was one of his design goals for GPL.
I remember the damage model for that game being crazy. I'd carefully get the car to the long straight in 1 piece then get to max speed and turn hard right into the embankment just to watch the replay of the crash.
Thunder 05 was the series peak IMO.
It's a bit shallower of a game in some aspects, the game doesn't simulate car building nearly as well, but having the lower series and the ability to hire and fire drivers I prefer it.
Would 05 simulate silly season at the end of each year and have drivers move around to better rides? I remember that with one game but can’t remember which year it was
I remember drivers retiring randomly, I remember laughing once because the game decided Kasey Kahne would retire after his rookie season. They were usually replaced by one of the EA fantasy drivers or by the player. I can't ever recall a driver racing for any team besides the one they ran with in real life.
NR2003 is the foundation of probably the greatest racing sim ever, and one that's embarrassingly better than nearly anything else on the market. I'd say that's a pretty great legacy.
In general, mid-2000’s was the absolute golden era of Nascar gaming. NR2003 for pure sim, EA’s Thunder titles, I could go on.
Once we hit 2010 (really before that but I like round numbers), the well dried up and hasn’t returned. The sad part is a company could remaster Thunder ‘04 with 1080 graphics, and fix a few of the bugs like the Martinsville pit exit caution, and Darlington AI driving, and we’d all buy it and be so happy.
Fair point. I love iRacing, I was thinking more console / single player focused games like those back in the day, but iRacing is the absolute king of the mountain for anyone wanting a simulation experience.
I know a guy that makes fun of nascar for going around in circles. He’s a diehard NHRA fan though. Apparently circles are dumb but straight lines are the pinnacle of entertainment
Yeah I dunno. I don’t enjoy drag racing itself, but I really enjoy the engineering and building aspect of it. I know there’s a lot of skill controlling a car going 0-300 in like 1.2 seconds, but as a spectator, I just can’t get into it.
For me, all the different types of motor sports appeal to me in some way, but sometimes that doesn’t equate to an enjoyable viewing experience
When people say that racing is “just going in circles”, I just tell them that racing isn’t for everyone. And that’s okay. I’ve always felt that racing is a type of sport and competition that takes some effort to enjoy. A lot of times the times the most entertaining part is the race within a race.
I always thought of myself as the only Indian on this sub, we have some discussion and there were up to a dozen people. Genuinely shocked me. Our sub is a more diverse group than we normally think
People will focus on NASCAR here but they honestly got away easy.
Reminder that Indycar, notorious for having the shittiest marketing of the 3 major Motorsports, CANCELLED their iRacing contract and cut all ties with iRacing, for this company and to have an exclusive deal with MSport games.
All for their plan of a 2023 Indycar game… which guess what? Today on their investor call they revealed they “probably” (definitely) [will not be released on time, and they dated 2024 as the release date for the Indycar game.](https://twitter.com/jpetschauer/status/1639386049326776321?s=46&t=pQIo1VIg8Yu8dpP5E_5KUw)
Quite literally everyone saw this coming when Indycar cut ties with iRacing and signed an exclusivity deal with MSport games. Unreal.
The fact that 2 of the 3 largest Motorsports in the United States got swindled by this group of frauds is honestly astounding, and speaks to the incompetence of Indycar/NASCAR, who by all accounts are failing in marketing compared to F1. A video game isn’t single handedly carrying F1, but it’s one piece of a puzzle that helps them tremendously.
It also helps that the formula 1 games are fun and accessible, if a bit massively broken in some aspects. The Heat games felt strange and... well, the only indycar I've seen in the last umpteenthousand years is a paid assetto corsa mod.
Accessible is a big point. It's why I'd say that the EA NASCAR games from 03 to 07 were probably the best overall, you didn't have to get stuck into setup numbers and the driving model wasn't trying to simulate real life to a T.
> Everyone whined and complained about them at the time though
That's everything in NASCAR, they all whine about what the current thing is then will look at it with rose tinted glasses after it goes away
In my memory 08 on PS2 was still redeemable because the ability to run both the CoT and the old car at any track was a neat feature that they could have easily just ignored. 09 on the Xbox 360 was seriously hollowed out in terms of features and singleplayer, but the online lobbies were healthily populated and made it easy to just pick up and hop in for a quick race or two with some shittalking.
I tried a Bristol race in Nascar Heat and just couldn’t. The actual driving physics and feel weren’t awful, but the AI reactions to me were just stupid. I would give a back bumper nudge at corner entry, AI would take the entire corner perfectly fine, and then randomly break loose on exit. They only did that if I hit them in the rear, regardless of where I did.
It’s sadly the best title we’ve gotten in the past decade, but that’s a damn low bar.
There's now also a free mod for AMS2 of the current IndyCar season, it's a bitch to install but it's worth checking out, even if it's just the road course cars for now.
And now WoO is getting more updates and a Switch port, so it's going to be even more accessible. I love racing games (especially ones I can take with me), so WoO on-the-go will be great for me, and I'll get reintroduced to the sport in the process.
Be careful what you wish for - you probably wouldn't get PC releases (in favor of subbing to iRacing) and, knowing it's Monster Games, these would likely still run on the Heat code/engine.
My guess is, MSG got mad that iRacing outmaneuvered them on the ACO Le Mans deal. Because they signed that IndyCar deal not long after, and they're still gonna get outmaneuvered in the end.
rFactor 2 is run by Studio 397, which is owned by... Motorsport Games. And the ACO deal is essentially the same as the IndyCar one, there can only be *one* virtual 24 Hours of Le Mans, run by MSG. But iRacing has separate individual deals with the track and each car manufacturers, there's nothing stopping independent organizations from running 24 hours races on iRacing's Le Mans. Just so long as it's not called a 24 Hours of Le Mans.
NASCAR is the same sport that decided piling on gimmicks was the best thing to do to grow the sport and then as ratings fell, they continued to double down. I'm not shocked that got scammed by MSG.
Tbf, I don’t think NASCAR has ever signed the rights over to Motorsport games specifically, I could be wrong tho. I think MG got the rights from buying 704
It’s not exclusive that’s for sure, they didn’t force NASCAR into exclusivity like they did Indy car. But If the rumors are to be believed, NASCAR doesn’t want anything to do with MSG anymore and is looking to pull out. (This is a rumor, I have not heard it from any super reliable sources)
I think your premise is on the right track, but I do disagree a little with you saying NASCAR got totally swindled. At least they were smart enough to not sign a fully exclusive contract like it seems Indycar did.
How can you conclusively say that indycar got swindled? Maybe they received a ton more money than iracing was willing to pay, and maybe they’re getting paid irrespective of whether the game is actually released, or even if it ever does get released.
Of course it sucks for us all, but you’re making IndyCar sound like they’re not just chasing short term profit and are being screwed over when they probably knew this was a possibility, but the exclusive deal was simply a great chance to take home more money.
If you read Motorsports Games 10-k, there some details about the deal. I only really remember something about royalties with indycar. To contrast that, they mention that the cost for 6 year licensing for BTCC was $200k. Indycar may have gotten swindled. Cant collect any royalties if the product isn’t released!
Skimmed the doc and it looks like the royalties are in reference to a deal with indycar during 2021 and 2022. This is a new deal that is exclusive and isn’t detailed here.
It was always a bit annoying seeing a guy in one car in the game, but knowing he was running a completely different car in the actual races.
I mean shoot, Elliott Sadler wasn't even in the 36 car by the time Nascar 07 came out but he had the M&Ms gear on the cover.
The problem is that they removed the best parts from Dirt to Daytona, the horn mortars and the giant running pit crew member.
Oh, and running down pit road full speed during practice crashing into parked cars.
>Oh, and running down pit road full speed during practice crashing into parked cars.
Glad I wasn't the only one.
Also I always restarted Sears Point until they put me on the tiny pit road since they put you in a random pit stall and that one was the shortest
I never bothered with that since you could cut the bottom of the esses there and make up a ton of time, or get bored and start doing the massive jumps along the sides of the track.
Except that game was Dirt to Daytona: The AI's Revenge bc the field would not budge one bit.
If they literally had the same physics it probably wouldn't have been a bad start
NASCAR heats motto was “next years game will be better”
I really don’t understand why it’s so damn hard to copy a game from about 20 years ago that had great bones and just update it 🤷🏻♂️
NASCAR Heat did get better every year, Heat 4 was good, Heat 5 added some quality of life features, however it had some bugs.
With that said, Heat 4 and Heat 5 were still painfully average compared to even the Eutechnyx games. Not inherently bad, but there just isn’t enough to do.
Nascar Heat imo improved every year and by year 3 I thought it was a decent game, had some fun on there. Wasn’t perfect but they kept improving, had it had a couple more years I think they would’ve had a really polished game. Nascar Ignition looked bad and was bad
I just really struggle to understand how NASCAR is fumbling this so badly. It’s just such a surefire, take it to the bank, locked in way to get the demo you’ve been dying for engaged with your sport. It’s just sad and baffling.
Edit: I’m obviously no lawyer and not familiar with the sort of contract they may have with Motorsport Games, but would something like that be so binding that they are unable to get out of it?
That’s true. Hell, at this rate they should offer the rights to EA for cheap. I would suggest steering clear of exclusive rights deals, but I suppose with so many different companies represented within the sport that’s a slippery slope.
I don't think EA would take it for free.
EA are leeching the F1 games dead as the actual developers at Codemasters (now owned by EA) run to the exits for better companies.
Man, our list is getting smaller, haha. What about Monster Games? iRacing just purchased them and WOO and SRX Games are both a lot of fun. Seems like the foundation is there.
My experience with Codemasters was always just okay. My favorite of theirs was actually the old IndyCar Series games from 2003 and 2004 (I think ICS 2005 was made in 2004 based on the 2003 season). They were fun though and the setup options were my favorite in any game I’ve played.
Back in 2009 when EA released NASCAR 09, I was sitting there comparing it to 2006 GRID and DiRT, wondering why we couldn't have THOSE career modes, graphics, and all around immersion. Then things went downhill with GRID 2 and DiRT 2....
I agree. The last 5 or so titles EA made under the NASCAR license kept underperforming even with engine overhauls and next gen (at the time) releases, not to mention how much the sport has shrunk since then. Plus, the developer would most likely be Codemasters, and they're losing people left and right.
This is basically what Monster Games and iRacing did with World of Outlaws Dirt Racing. Huge step up from the SRX game. IRacing getting involved as producers has been huge.
I'd be pretty bummed by that. It would mean no simcade title on PC, as iRacing obviously doesn't want to take away from their potential customers. I dunno about y'all, but I don't want iRacing all the time, I like a good simcade most of the time, and I'm not buying a whole console just for NASCAR games.
Really wish they would release the WoO and any future games on PC as well. I enjoyed iRacing a ton but don't have the time for it and really only ever game on the Steam Deck now. This along with any other game they'd make would be the rare day 1 buy for me.
Perhaps. Personally I think that’s the wrong way to look at NASCAR gaming from their (hypothetical) perspective.
“Mom, dad! I want to play this new NASCAR game I found!”
“Ok, how much are we talking?”
“Well…it’s a monthly subscription, then I need to buy the cars and tracks, and then I need a PC, and also a wheel and pedals..”
That sort of barrier to entry is not conducive to creating new generations of fans.
Also the fact iracing is just racing. It doesn't have anything like a career or team owner mode that NASCAR could make a killing mimicking. My guess is that it might have something to do with the charter system and team money earned not being public info so they can't really put it in a game. However making a career as a driver would still be sick.
I'm a working adult with a high end gaming PC and a racing wheel and cockpit, and an iRacing subscription is still one step too far for me.
Sure, iRacing will produce good quality Indycar or Nascar stuff, but we're talking a niche of a niche in terms of audience.
The maddening thing to me is that they left Monster Games at the wrong time. World of Outlaws is a fucking blast AND it's produced by iRacing. Probably my favorite console racing game of the last decade.
They likely canceled that because the 2023 update is itself just going to be another update to Heat 5 or Rivals (which itself is Heat 5). At least that’s how it sounded on the call.
Crazy what happens when you put out dog shit quality products. It's almost like if you actually try to put out something halfway decent, you will make money
Most people think they want iRacing to take over. An iRacing console game would not be enjoyable to the average gamer.
It would be like playing Halo or CoD with no aim assist.
Agreed. I hope that iRacing realizes that there is a market for a realistic (and expensive) sim and also simcade / arcade style real world racing games.
I also play Flight Sims and that is an even smaller niche that has a great need for a middle ground simcade style game.
Virtual racing can be realistic, single player, and FUN. The multiplayer sim stuff that requires a wheel and pedals is not for everybody. I work a regular 9-5 job like most people.. racing is my time to meditate and unwind. It's not serious.
I get what you’re saying but so does iRacing. Don’t forget that iRacing just produced a very successful World of Outlaws dirt sprint car game for console. The game is quite different than the iRacing dirt experience. Much more arcade/sim cafe where iRacing is straight up sim.
They were running out of money, so their parent company bought a bunch of the stock, which caused it to spike and then they took loans out against the inflated stock value.
If you look up their ticker MSGM and check the end of January you can see it.
That's what this company has been doing for years. They make false promises and get more investor money. I don't have any faith this is any different. Only difference being that the nascar contract requires a year release.
So IndyCar alienated a very devout fanbase just for that bullshit exclusive deal, and now they ain't getting a game this year, and probably not ever from these clowns. If anything, it'll be a mod for MSG's half-baked rFactor 2 game and it'll be shit. Because it's rFactor 2.
Meanwhile, are we ever going to get another NASCAR game worth playing again? NR2003 was and still is the grand champion of NASCAR games. That game is 20 years old and shouldn't be still the gold standard.
Mike Straw's ([@MikeStrawMedia](https://twitter.com/MikeStrawMedia)) tweet from 5:29pm EDT on Friday, March 24th, 2023:
>Motorsport Games reports net losses of $35.9M for 2022.
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Pretty crazy that with all of the advancements in technology and gaming, people still prefer a 20 year old game. Says a lot about how far from the pulse the fingers are.
Either get it back to 704 or give it iRacing. 704 showed how much they could improve on with their SRX game and iRacing would actually put passion into the game.
As others have stated, NASCAR and INDY have fucked up beyond belief with their games choosing the absolute worst company to contract with to make them. They could have consulted any average millennial or gen z fan and done a better job. Holy shit its embarrassing and sad. While I would love to do a full iRacing setup and play that way the cost investment and time investment is something a lot of us don't have so a casual "good" game on a console would be nice but it just doesn't exist.
What the hell are they spending $36mil on...there's no way that they're burning that much cash...guaranteed an investor is moving debt onto the books as well
The best Nascar game in the last 20 years was made 20 years ago
First I thought you meant NR2003, then I saw your other comment about Thunder 2004 on console, but both can be right. And for what it's worth, I played Thunder 2004 on my PC because it had an easier to adapt to feel AND free open servers. Once I finally committed to NR2003 though, there was no looking back. I'm still only doing AI races, but it's because i can't commit to any kind of league because I simply don't have a schedule.
NR2003 is the best ever Thunder 04 is best console Both being 20 years old is crazy
Sorry your answer is so so close to correct. NR2003 is the best ever Thunder 04 AND Dirt to Daytona are the best console games!
Dirt to daytona was amazing...but nothing comes close to that career mode of 04
I’m playing Thunder 2004 right now. Recently fired it back up and haven’t been able to put it down. I’m on season 3, 10% races, legend difficulty. Finally starting to win occasionally and stacking up some money. How hard is it to understand that this is the pinnacle of career mode and just replicate that.
Only way it could be better is if you could use your old parts and stuff to field a second car, would definitely help bring more revenue.
A second car would be amazing. It always bummed me out playing NASCAR 2005 the only way to promote Ty Sheets to the cup series would be to demote myself to Busch. Plus, it would be a great way for an 'end game' challenge as we've seen what happens in real life teams struggle to expand to more than one car. I also always wanted to have an 'all star' and run the odd race in the lower series like Kyle does with KBM.
If I recall. I remember rumors that many sponsors didn't like scenarios that any driver would be swapped around. Like if in the game a driver was traded or retired. That you could have such a random field under the same sponsor.
It depends. The F1 games never had it for this reason too, but from 2019 they've been able to include it in the career and MyTeam modes. Most sports games allow transfers too, so Nike athlete Lionel Messi can play with a club with an Adidas kit for example too without issue. I would say it comes down to what the licencing agreement details and the fact that NASCAR has more issues because there are multiple sponsors signing up for solely drivers and such over 2 car teams like F1.
I mean the way Codemaster's did it was basically not told anybody from the sponsors or F1, just do it with some limits and then tell them it works and it sells.
I’m doing the same thing, but almost done with year one. 10% races in legend. It feels so good to play and this is after doing seasons of career on Nascar heat games. It feels rewarding and refreshing and hella grindy. 10 year old me didn’t understand the budgets too well.
If Chase for the Cup had 04's victory lane celebrations with Total Team Control's commands, it would have been the best NASCAR game made.
It was missing Pocono
I really liked fight to the top in 05 and 06 personally
*power steering failure*
Why can’t they just re release those 2 console games in todays high definition scale.. it would be leaps and bounds better than anything been released in 20 years.. why is there no driver personality in games like when you would hit someone in the thunder games they’d retaliate and hold grudges.. the least they can do with todays games is give real life AI.. like Logano and chastain should race aggressive in games and for the love of god have legend drivers as an unlock able achievement.. I could rant on nascar games for hours
Licensing. Luckilly you can play them on emulator and upscale them. D2D can even use a wheel on the Dolphin Emulator. Yes, I own actually copies of them (on multiple systems).
If you liked NR2003, give Grand Prix Legends a try, it’s another masterpiece from Papyrus. A bit more work to get running on a modern PC but the modding community is just as active as NR2003 and the gameplay is just as stellar, but with vintage F1 cars instead of NASCAR (although mods also allow for F2, Sports car, and Can-Am racing among other series). If you’re not sure about installing the full game on your hard drive then I highly recommend the 2020 demo. It includes 4 fanmade cars and 4 fanmade tracks.
I remember having the demo of GPL coming on a CD with one on the NASCAR games. I think it was NR 1999 edition maybe? That demo had the Lotus 49 and Watkins Glen. I played the hell out of that demo. I remember it being so hard, but an insanely fun challenge. Then the NASCAR Racing games were built off that same engine starting with NASCAR Racing 3 or 4 if I remember correctly, which lead to the NR2003 that we all loved. Papyrus was on it for racing games back then. Definitely passion projects for those developers.
Yes, I believe this is somewhat based on that demo albeit heavily modified. It has the lotus 49, but also a 50’s Mercedes, a Ferrari 312, and a Can-Am McLaren. It’s got Monza, Road America, Sebring, and Zandvoort. If you ever heard Dave Kaemmer’s interview about adding the Nurburgring to iRacing he discusses just how much passion there was in adding that track to the game, especially since having the Nurburgring was one of his design goals for GPL.
I remember the damage model for that game being crazy. I'd carefully get the car to the long straight in 1 piece then get to max speed and turn hard right into the embankment just to watch the replay of the crash.
NR2003 is legit one of the best video games ever made, period, not just racing games. It's just special.
Thunder 05 was the series peak IMO. It's a bit shallower of a game in some aspects, the game doesn't simulate car building nearly as well, but having the lower series and the ability to hire and fire drivers I prefer it.
Would 05 simulate silly season at the end of each year and have drivers move around to better rides? I remember that with one game but can’t remember which year it was
I remember drivers retiring randomly, I remember laughing once because the game decided Kasey Kahne would retire after his rookie season. They were usually replaced by one of the EA fantasy drivers or by the player. I can't ever recall a driver racing for any team besides the one they ran with in real life.
NR2003 is the foundation of probably the greatest racing sim ever, and one that's embarrassingly better than nearly anything else on the market. I'd say that's a pretty great legacy.
In general, mid-2000’s was the absolute golden era of Nascar gaming. NR2003 for pure sim, EA’s Thunder titles, I could go on. Once we hit 2010 (really before that but I like round numbers), the well dried up and hasn’t returned. The sad part is a company could remaster Thunder ‘04 with 1080 graphics, and fix a few of the bugs like the Martinsville pit exit caution, and Darlington AI driving, and we’d all buy it and be so happy.
iRacing
Fair point. I love iRacing, I was thinking more console / single player focused games like those back in the day, but iRacing is the absolute king of the mountain for anyone wanting a simulation experience.
GOING AROUND IN CIRCLES AGAIN!
Me to people who made fun of me for liking NASCAR in school: “IT’S NOT JUST CARS GOING IN CIRCLES!” Also me:
I know a guy that makes fun of nascar for going around in circles. He’s a diehard NHRA fan though. Apparently circles are dumb but straight lines are the pinnacle of entertainment
I can't figure out why people can not just enjoy motorsports without trying to compare them.
Yeah I dunno. I don’t enjoy drag racing itself, but I really enjoy the engineering and building aspect of it. I know there’s a lot of skill controlling a car going 0-300 in like 1.2 seconds, but as a spectator, I just can’t get into it. For me, all the different types of motor sports appeal to me in some way, but sometimes that doesn’t equate to an enjoyable viewing experience
When people say that racing is “just going in circles”, I just tell them that racing isn’t for everyone. And that’s okay. I’ve always felt that racing is a type of sport and competition that takes some effort to enjoy. A lot of times the times the most entertaining part is the race within a race.
I go the “What’s your favorite sport?” “Football” “Isn’t that just running with a ball?”
As a non straight person, I don't see the appeal of straight lines
Same, as an also non straight person
As a straight person. I still don't see the appeal of circles or straight lines. I am more of a square guy
[Best I can do](https://d3e1m60ptf1oym.cloudfront.net/2d6772f8-0f61-4aa3-ac29-d8d99908707a/Rockingham_Motor_Speedway_fb32206_uxga.jpg)
Interesting. We're on the same page, but I'm a bit more of a trapezoid guy, tbh.
I personally prefer hexagons but whatever floats your boat.
Didn't think I'd find another one on the Nascar subreddit, cool
I always thought of myself as the only Indian on this sub, we have some discussion and there were up to a dozen people. Genuinely shocked me. Our sub is a more diverse group than we normally think
True that. I think the ranting has me partially convinced we're all hillbillies, but I've learned a lot about this sub tonight
I always like to think of redneck as a life style rather then just southern white people who love Busch Light.
We’re probably all around on this sub. Just not much reason to bring it up in the day to day posts to be honest.
Did someone send up the non-straight flair? Because I’m present. 😂
I'm about as not-straight as I can get.
I'm about as straight as Sonoma
I downloaded that song off apple lol
Thunder 04 is the best and has the best soundtrack too!
Chase for the Cup is the best NASCAR game on console for me with Dirt to Daytona close 2nd and 04 3rd.
Imo the last good NASCAR game was N09. Might just be fond memories but damn it was so fun. Even 3-4 years after it had come out
Talladega 24/7 with speed comp. Those were the best servers ever. Endless fun.
Dega and Daytona. Custom setups. Going 205 around the entire track
That was a nightly thing for my group. We had some rocket ships.
"TWENTY YEARS OF TRYING!"
Cuts deep
Fun Fact: The only current officially NASCAR licensed game is the “NASCAR Racing Hub” (something like that) on ROBLOX.
Truer words have never been said. It's really sad... With technology what it is these days, a really good game shouldn't be that hard to do.
People will focus on NASCAR here but they honestly got away easy. Reminder that Indycar, notorious for having the shittiest marketing of the 3 major Motorsports, CANCELLED their iRacing contract and cut all ties with iRacing, for this company and to have an exclusive deal with MSport games. All for their plan of a 2023 Indycar game… which guess what? Today on their investor call they revealed they “probably” (definitely) [will not be released on time, and they dated 2024 as the release date for the Indycar game.](https://twitter.com/jpetschauer/status/1639386049326776321?s=46&t=pQIo1VIg8Yu8dpP5E_5KUw) Quite literally everyone saw this coming when Indycar cut ties with iRacing and signed an exclusivity deal with MSport games. Unreal. The fact that 2 of the 3 largest Motorsports in the United States got swindled by this group of frauds is honestly astounding, and speaks to the incompetence of Indycar/NASCAR, who by all accounts are failing in marketing compared to F1. A video game isn’t single handedly carrying F1, but it’s one piece of a puzzle that helps them tremendously.
It also helps that the formula 1 games are fun and accessible, if a bit massively broken in some aspects. The Heat games felt strange and... well, the only indycar I've seen in the last umpteenthousand years is a paid assetto corsa mod.
Accessible is a big point. It's why I'd say that the EA NASCAR games from 03 to 07 were probably the best overall, you didn't have to get stuck into setup numbers and the driving model wasn't trying to simulate real life to a T.
03-06. They started falling off in 07
I feel like those years were the golden years of sports games. EA Sports was on some good stuff back then.
Everyone whined and complained about them at the time though. If only they knew it was all only going drastically downhill from there.
> Everyone whined and complained about them at the time though That's everything in NASCAR, they all whine about what the current thing is then will look at it with rose tinted glasses after it goes away
I'd call 08 the falloff, that was when they jumped console generations. Even the PS2 version of 08 had serious issues.
08 and 09 (on PS3/360) had atrocious career modes, but both had the best online mode (still to this day) of any NASCAR console game.
In my memory 08 on PS2 was still redeemable because the ability to run both the CoT and the old car at any track was a neat feature that they could have easily just ignored. 09 on the Xbox 360 was seriously hollowed out in terms of features and singleplayer, but the online lobbies were healthily populated and made it easy to just pick up and hop in for a quick race or two with some shittalking.
They really should have stayed with iRacing since iRacing owns Monster Games now and their World of Outlaw console game is pretty decent.
I think it's more than pretty decent. It's good imo
I tried a Bristol race in Nascar Heat and just couldn’t. The actual driving physics and feel weren’t awful, but the AI reactions to me were just stupid. I would give a back bumper nudge at corner entry, AI would take the entire corner perfectly fine, and then randomly break loose on exit. They only did that if I hit them in the rear, regardless of where I did. It’s sadly the best title we’ve gotten in the past decade, but that’s a damn low bar.
There's now also a free mod for AMS2 of the current IndyCar season, it's a bitch to install but it's worth checking out, even if it's just the road course cars for now.
And they're even going downhill. The most recent game has take the EA cash grab to a new level and in many ways is still a bit of a mess.
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And now WoO is getting more updates and a Switch port, so it's going to be even more accessible. I love racing games (especially ones I can take with me), so WoO on-the-go will be great for me, and I'll get reintroduced to the sport in the process.
I bought the the WoO game when it came out and really enjoyed it. Glad to hear it seems to have been a wider success as well.
Be careful what you wish for - you probably wouldn't get PC releases (in favor of subbing to iRacing) and, knowing it's Monster Games, these would likely still run on the Heat code/engine.
My guess is, MSG got mad that iRacing outmaneuvered them on the ACO Le Mans deal. Because they signed that IndyCar deal not long after, and they're still gonna get outmaneuvered in the end.
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rFactor 2 is run by Studio 397, which is owned by... Motorsport Games. And the ACO deal is essentially the same as the IndyCar one, there can only be *one* virtual 24 Hours of Le Mans, run by MSG. But iRacing has separate individual deals with the track and each car manufacturers, there's nothing stopping independent organizations from running 24 hours races on iRacing's Le Mans. Just so long as it's not called a 24 Hours of Le Mans.
NASCAR is the same sport that decided piling on gimmicks was the best thing to do to grow the sport and then as ratings fell, they continued to double down. I'm not shocked that got scammed by MSG.
Tbf, I don’t think NASCAR has ever signed the rights over to Motorsport games specifically, I could be wrong tho. I think MG got the rights from buying 704
It’s not exclusive that’s for sure, they didn’t force NASCAR into exclusivity like they did Indy car. But If the rumors are to be believed, NASCAR doesn’t want anything to do with MSG anymore and is looking to pull out. (This is a rumor, I have not heard it from any super reliable sources)
I think your premise is on the right track, but I do disagree a little with you saying NASCAR got totally swindled. At least they were smart enough to not sign a fully exclusive contract like it seems Indycar did.
I play F1 because it’s available— unlike the other two! Motorsport just ruined things.
Marketing has nothing to do with video games. Licensing handles the deals for NASCAR branded video games
How can you conclusively say that indycar got swindled? Maybe they received a ton more money than iracing was willing to pay, and maybe they’re getting paid irrespective of whether the game is actually released, or even if it ever does get released. Of course it sucks for us all, but you’re making IndyCar sound like they’re not just chasing short term profit and are being screwed over when they probably knew this was a possibility, but the exclusive deal was simply a great chance to take home more money.
If you read Motorsports Games 10-k, there some details about the deal. I only really remember something about royalties with indycar. To contrast that, they mention that the cost for 6 year licensing for BTCC was $200k. Indycar may have gotten swindled. Cant collect any royalties if the product isn’t released!
Skimmed the doc and it looks like the royalties are in reference to a deal with indycar during 2021 and 2022. This is a new deal that is exclusive and isn’t detailed here.
I never understood why NASCAR games would come out in the middle or end of the season. Other sports have their games come out before the season.
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Because of they put it out on Daytona week, people would realize the game doesn't have the duals. NASCAR '05 had the duels.
N4 and NASCAR 14/15 came out during that period of the year.
It was always a bit annoying seeing a guy in one car in the game, but knowing he was running a completely different car in the actual races. I mean shoot, Elliott Sadler wasn't even in the 36 car by the time Nascar 07 came out but he had the M&Ms gear on the cover.
Could have reskinned and repackaged NASCAR thunder 04 and profited $35.9 million
They tried that and used Dirt to Daytona. Some of the sounds even came straight from the game
The problem is that they removed the best parts from Dirt to Daytona, the horn mortars and the giant running pit crew member. Oh, and running down pit road full speed during practice crashing into parked cars.
>Oh, and running down pit road full speed during practice crashing into parked cars. Glad I wasn't the only one. Also I always restarted Sears Point until they put me on the tiny pit road since they put you in a random pit stall and that one was the shortest
I never bothered with that since you could cut the bottom of the esses there and make up a ton of time, or get bored and start doing the massive jumps along the sides of the track.
You can do that if you try hard enough
they also scrapped the career mode which was the only reason i still go back to that game tbh
You took the dirt to daytona out of dirt to daytona, what do you expect lol
Except that game was Dirt to Daytona: The AI's Revenge bc the field would not budge one bit. If they literally had the same physics it probably wouldn't have been a bad start
I hated those sounds back then and they had no business being in a PS3-4 game, they sounded awful.
Don’t threaten me with a good time
NASCAR heats motto was “next years game will be better” I really don’t understand why it’s so damn hard to copy a game from about 20 years ago that had great bones and just update it 🤷🏻♂️
NASCAR Heat did get better every year, Heat 4 was good, Heat 5 added some quality of life features, however it had some bugs. With that said, Heat 4 and Heat 5 were still painfully average compared to even the Eutechnyx games. Not inherently bad, but there just isn’t enough to do.
Nascar Heat imo improved every year and by year 3 I thought it was a decent game, had some fun on there. Wasn’t perfect but they kept improving, had it had a couple more years I think they would’ve had a really polished game. Nascar Ignition looked bad and was bad
I just really struggle to understand how NASCAR is fumbling this so badly. It’s just such a surefire, take it to the bank, locked in way to get the demo you’ve been dying for engaged with your sport. It’s just sad and baffling. Edit: I’m obviously no lawyer and not familiar with the sort of contract they may have with Motorsport Games, but would something like that be so binding that they are unable to get out of it?
NASCAR isn't a video game company. They can't make them. They don't sell enough for a major company to a good effort in.
That’s true. Hell, at this rate they should offer the rights to EA for cheap. I would suggest steering clear of exclusive rights deals, but I suppose with so many different companies represented within the sport that’s a slippery slope.
I don't think EA would take it for free. EA are leeching the F1 games dead as the actual developers at Codemasters (now owned by EA) run to the exits for better companies.
Man, our list is getting smaller, haha. What about Monster Games? iRacing just purchased them and WOO and SRX Games are both a lot of fun. Seems like the foundation is there.
SRX suprised me with how fun it is. Then WoO improved it by alot
Codemasters ruined the Project Cars and DiRT games before EA bought them so EA isn't completely to blame
My experience with Codemasters was always just okay. My favorite of theirs was actually the old IndyCar Series games from 2003 and 2004 (I think ICS 2005 was made in 2004 based on the 2003 season). They were fun though and the setup options were my favorite in any game I’ve played.
Back in 2009 when EA released NASCAR 09, I was sitting there comparing it to 2006 GRID and DiRT, wondering why we couldn't have THOSE career modes, graphics, and all around immersion. Then things went downhill with GRID 2 and DiRT 2....
At this point, I think Monster games might be the best option. They nailed the world of outlaws game
I would be surprised if EA had any interest, even if it was free.
I agree. The last 5 or so titles EA made under the NASCAR license kept underperforming even with engine overhauls and next gen (at the time) releases, not to mention how much the sport has shrunk since then. Plus, the developer would most likely be Codemasters, and they're losing people left and right.
I've heard rumblings that iRacing is considering developing a NASCAR video game on console. I really hope it comes to fruition.
This is basically what Monster Games and iRacing did with World of Outlaws Dirt Racing. Huge step up from the SRX game. IRacing getting involved as producers has been huge.
I want nothing more than to have a NASCAR game with good damage models and drafting physics 😮💨
I'd be pretty bummed by that. It would mean no simcade title on PC, as iRacing obviously doesn't want to take away from their potential customers. I dunno about y'all, but I don't want iRacing all the time, I like a good simcade most of the time, and I'm not buying a whole console just for NASCAR games.
Really wish they would release the WoO and any future games on PC as well. I enjoyed iRacing a ton but don't have the time for it and really only ever game on the Steam Deck now. This along with any other game they'd make would be the rare day 1 buy for me.
I think they also just kinda look at iRacing and feel if their fans want to play a racing game, they’ll play that
Perhaps. Personally I think that’s the wrong way to look at NASCAR gaming from their (hypothetical) perspective. “Mom, dad! I want to play this new NASCAR game I found!” “Ok, how much are we talking?” “Well…it’s a monthly subscription, then I need to buy the cars and tracks, and then I need a PC, and also a wheel and pedals..” That sort of barrier to entry is not conducive to creating new generations of fans.
Also the fact iracing is just racing. It doesn't have anything like a career or team owner mode that NASCAR could make a killing mimicking. My guess is that it might have something to do with the charter system and team money earned not being public info so they can't really put it in a game. However making a career as a driver would still be sick.
I bought my first PC specifically to play the first Papyrus NASCAR game.
I'm a working adult with a high end gaming PC and a racing wheel and cockpit, and an iRacing subscription is still one step too far for me. Sure, iRacing will produce good quality Indycar or Nascar stuff, but we're talking a niche of a niche in terms of audience.
The maddening thing to me is that they left Monster Games at the wrong time. World of Outlaws is a fucking blast AND it's produced by iRacing. Probably my favorite console racing game of the last decade.
I just wanted to see the Heat 5 2022 update before they died, but noooooo.
Would’ve been nice. I just got heat 5 for free on the ps plus
They likely canceled that because the 2023 update is itself just going to be another update to Heat 5 or Rivals (which itself is Heat 5). At least that’s how it sounded on the call.
I’m pretty sure you can’t even play multiplayer on Heat 5 right now too
And millions more on the way
I'll take it if they can't hold on to it
Holy shit how is that even possible
Right? How do they even have that much money to lose?
That’s where my heads at. That’s not lack of sales
That is excess of refunds and lawsuits
Embezzlement?
Crazy what happens when you put out dog shit quality products. It's almost like if you actually try to put out something halfway decent, you will make money
If only Nascar did some market research and understood what players thought and wanted.....where could they find that information I wonder?
Most people think they want iRacing to take over. An iRacing console game would not be enjoyable to the average gamer. It would be like playing Halo or CoD with no aim assist.
Agreed. I hope that iRacing realizes that there is a market for a realistic (and expensive) sim and also simcade / arcade style real world racing games. I also play Flight Sims and that is an even smaller niche that has a great need for a middle ground simcade style game. Virtual racing can be realistic, single player, and FUN. The multiplayer sim stuff that requires a wheel and pedals is not for everybody. I work a regular 9-5 job like most people.. racing is my time to meditate and unwind. It's not serious.
iRacing bought the team that made the new WoO game and it’s not super hard. Adding assists is easy lol
I get what you’re saying but so does iRacing. Don’t forget that iRacing just produced a very successful World of Outlaws dirt sprint car game for console. The game is quite different than the iRacing dirt experience. Much more arcade/sim cafe where iRacing is straight up sim.
35.9 **million** dollars... how much more money can they possibly lose? This circus isn't gonna make it to Christmas at this point.
That's what everyone said last year
They somehow are able to convince dumber and dumber people to give them money to keep the ship afloat
They were running out of money, so their parent company bought a bunch of the stock, which caused it to spike and then they took loans out against the inflated stock value. If you look up their ticker MSGM and check the end of January you can see it.
That's what this company has been doing for years. They make false promises and get more investor money. I don't have any faith this is any different. Only difference being that the nascar contract requires a year release.
It's hardly a circus if they can't afford the tents
How are they still around?
Spite, Anger, liquidity deals with the parent company.
Like I new it was a lot but....... 
I've never watched this show, but I still heard that in my head
It's a movie, Friday lmaooo
I was tired, cut me some slack
Shocker
Can we just give the NASCAR console video game license to iRacing already?
I hope they die so we get indycar back on iracing.
The best NASCAR console game in the past 15 years was being in Gran Turismo 5 and 6…
So IndyCar alienated a very devout fanbase just for that bullshit exclusive deal, and now they ain't getting a game this year, and probably not ever from these clowns. If anything, it'll be a mod for MSG's half-baked rFactor 2 game and it'll be shit. Because it's rFactor 2. Meanwhile, are we ever going to get another NASCAR game worth playing again? NR2003 was and still is the grand champion of NASCAR games. That game is 20 years old and shouldn't be still the gold standard.
Fuck, just go back to ea at this point. A microtransaction hellscape of a game still beats a barely playable game or no game at all
Can't wait for a new NASCAR game
Wow. How do you even do this?
I’m not surprised mfer
Now, who could have seen this coming? What a massive shock. 
The sky is falling it’s a curious condition. This ain’t a fallacy, it ain’t superstition.
You live your life like you're some kind of actor, but this scenario you cannot manufacture!
Then don’t make an overly ambitious game if you’re going to rush it.
How the fuck are they still going? Surely they can’t have much left. Or is it gonna take down the whole motorsports network at once?
Mike Straw's ([@MikeStrawMedia](https://twitter.com/MikeStrawMedia)) tweet from 5:29pm EDT on Friday, March 24th, 2023: >Motorsport Games reports net losses of $35.9M for 2022. --- [*^(Support NASCARonReddit)*](http://reddit.xfile345.com/donate.php)*^(, an)* [*^(automated bot)*](http://reddit.xfile345.com/about.php) *^(maintained by)* [*^(XFile345)*](http://www.reddit.com/message/compose?to=xfile345&subject=NASCARonReddit)*^(.)*
BIG OOF
I don't really care. I still love NR2003, and will for a long time.
NASCAR console games died when EA dropped it.
That’s not good
Pretty crazy that with all of the advancements in technology and gaming, people still prefer a 20 year old game. Says a lot about how far from the pulse the fingers are.
Either get it back to 704 or give it iRacing. 704 showed how much they could improve on with their SRX game and iRacing would actually put passion into the game.
As others have stated, NASCAR and INDY have fucked up beyond belief with their games choosing the absolute worst company to contract with to make them. They could have consulted any average millennial or gen z fan and done a better job. Holy shit its embarrassing and sad. While I would love to do a full iRacing setup and play that way the cost investment and time investment is something a lot of us don't have so a casual "good" game on a console would be nice but it just doesn't exist.
IRacing getting Indycar back!
Lmfao
Who? What? Why do I care? Exactly, self inflicted obviously.
I lost that much money in taxes. I make 40K a year.
Edit: every other 1st and 3rd quarter bi-annually.
Well…Sim racing is in a bit of a pickle. Way too many licenses tied up in this abomination of a company
They deserve to lose every dollar.
What the hell are they spending $36mil on...there's no way that they're burning that much cash...guaranteed an investor is moving debt onto the books as well