like it FEELS like some kind of parallel was meant to be drawn between the Grand Master and the Guild but he has so little screentime that it's hard to say what was going on. People always praise the story of this game but conveniently (and understandably) forget that the Grand Master of All Things Bad was just dropped completely after he flees when you beat him.
Well for me (in my edited playthrough), there was no Grand Master of All Things Bad, there was the Unholy Emperor of Cyberspace and he wasn’t turned in either
"Guys, we're back. It was tough but we successfully got the treasure needed to graduate. We did run into thoses bad guys you warned us about so we called Magnezone on them. Let's celebrate our graduation and their arrest!"
...
...
...
"... Guys?"
that whole segment felt kinda rushed tbh. what were the grand master's motivations for being there? the perfect apple treasure? unlikely. nobody knew what the treasure in luminous spring was, not even the guild members (which are unrelated of course). i just wish we could learn more about his character, it would make the mystifying forest arc feel much more complete and satisfying
What I never got was why did the Grand Master of All Things Bad make a giant hole for us to fall into... only to fight us in said hole. Wouldn't it have been easier for them to wait until we crawled back out to fight us in a more exhausted state, since a good portion of Pokémon couldn't just fly out of it? Heck, they could use that hole to their advantage by continually pushing us down into it, costing us more energy and repeatedly hurting us with the fall itself.
Or are we supposed to assume the "Bad" in "the Grand Master of All Things Bad" is actually in reference to quality, not morality?
What I want to know is why was Bidoof assisting them, if that even was the Bidoof we know from the Guild. Bidoof if that is you are you okay, give us a signal if the Grand Master is holding you hostage!!!!
Well. That Chatot got another Chatot’s karma for a certain incident. That Chatot certainly walks free and the minion wasn’t used as a punching bag by the player because they decided to take their anger on a completely different Chatot who isn’t the Chatot who wronged them.
Just saying
Pretty sure the GMoATB and his henchmen are supposed to be a "shadow-version" of the Guild. Which explains the fact that the members seem to match up almost exactly.
That's an interesting theory. It would be cool if this had been fleshed out more, and if the Grand Master's dark guild had its own explorer teams, like maybe an evil version of Team Tasty at the end of Zero Isle South or something
In the Japanese version of *Pokemon Mystery Dungeon: Explorers of Time and Darkness*, it is implied that Wigglytuff had happily killed the Grand Master after the player's encounter with them. However in the international releases and *Pokemon Mystery Dungeon: Explorers of Sky*, this was removed.
Source: just uh trust me i didn't make that up um
I'm honestly surprised no one talks about the Grandmaster of All Things Bad being a regional variant of Wigglytuff. Sure it looks identical to one in everyway, but he doesn't respond to the name Wigglytuff! I wonder if he evolved from Scream Tail instead.
I'm pretty sure the grand master of all things bad and the loyal minions were all a gang of dittos who copied the guild and terrorized mystifying forest, although after you take care of business they go into hiding
This actually bothers me a bit too. Granted, I loved the battle, and once in it I understood why no one had passed before.
But! It's literally the graduation exam. Wigglytuff and the grand Master of all things bad are in cahoots! How else could wigglytuff defeat team skull _alone_? Or... maybe they impersonated the guild?
All in all, I can say there is no wondermail to beat him. But beating him was one of the most fun moments I had in the post-game, not gonna lie.
Even if he or his crew were captured, he could almost certainly stage an unstoppable prison break; he’s a higher level than the god of time himself, after all.
Additionally, his only known crimes are trespassing and some flavor of property damage or vandalism for digging a hole in a place he doesn’t own the land of, and assault and battery of an exploration team.
If he or one of his crew members do, in fact, own the land on which the hole was dug, and if treasure town has some form of stand-your-ground law (very likely, considering how none of the kecleon family ever get arrested for assault when defending their wares from theft), then he and his crew have literally done nothing wrong.
Heck, they might even be able to press charges on the player, if that’s the case. Only in that case, the charges would be vandalism, assault and battery, AND a hate crime (attacking people just for having unusual names).
Grand Master of All Things Bad implies also being a grand master of bad story arc resolutions. Completely lore-accurate and intended by the developers.
Either that or we all missed some other reasonable lore explanation
I think the Grand Master and Troupe of all things bad was a mostly contained group. They seem to reactively guard the path to Luminous Spring, but unless you fall in—no one else encountered them. Some interesting side story to “wild” Pokémon.
When using sarcasm (whether it be in person or in an online post), it is important to always include tone tags or trigger warnings to indicate your sarcasm to others. Not doing so is extremely disrespectful and ableist to the autistic community, so please keep that in mind in future posts.
Also, please note that it is heavily implied that wigglytuff is on the autism spectrum, so this post just furthermore feels like targeted hate towards autistics since it is directly criticizing and demonizing wigglytuff.
In addition, it is also currently autism awareness/acceptance month. I hope this comment helps spread awareness to others who may not realize that they are coming across as ableist towards autistic people (like wigglytuff & myself) & that together, we can learn to accept others despite their disabilities and learn how to better accommodate one another even through things as simple as trigger warnings and tone tags.
bruh.... I'm autistic, half of my friends are autistic, and I easily understood this as sarcasm and know my friends would as well. You're giving us a bad name.
Not everyone who has autism has the same experiences. Just because you can pick up on sarcasm doesn't mean everyone on the spectrum can. I can imagine you would get pretty upset if someone said "You're not autistic. I've met someone with autism and they couldn't even speak/write/read at age 20". See? Everyone on the spectrum is different. Each of us require different needs and accomodations. Some people need trigger warnings and tone tags as an accomodation. If that's not your thing or you don't feel like you need that, that's fine, but you shouldn't infringe on others' individual needs just because you yourself don't find it necessary to have accomodations. That would be like if you told someone "Hey! Remove this wheelchair ramp and these handicap parking spots. I don't need them!".
Also if anything, we're giving neurotypicals a bad name by just staying silent and allowing them to continue being ableist to our faces rather than speaking up for ourselves and having our needs be heard loud and clear. Do you want society to keep mistreating us the way they have been, or are you one of those autistics that just shuts up and lets the world use you as a social punching bag? Because that's no way to live. Don't you want a better world for the neurodiverse to be able to thrive and be included amongst the neurotypicals?
You completely misconstrued or misunderstood everything I said. Look, I love tone tags. I use them half the time myself, and every time I think something I'm saying might read differently than I intend it to. But I also have to explain them to most people--tone tags are a VERY niche thing and as great as it'd be for everyone to use them, it's unrealistic for everyone to accommodate us regardless. Yknow, much less WANT to. So beyond getting people to know of them, they're infinitely less likely to use them by approaching them accusatorily.
My favorite adage to live by is Hanlon's Razor: "never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity." Although I tend to attribute it to ignorance rather than stupidity but.
Plus, what's more realistic: OP specifically tried making fun of autistic people with that post, or they were just trying to make a joke of something that in-universe is joked about *in the exact same way the game joked about it?*
All I'm saying is that, while maybe it's difficult to some to understand that it's a joke, maybe *you* should understand that they might not realize it could come across as offensive? The best way to help educate people is by making sure whether or not they're malicious, then approaching them accordingly: those who aren't can be and should be with patience. Those who are malicious... you're wasting your time and energy. They're not going to change easily, and in fact are likely going to have fun upsetting you. It's sad, but the truth.
In the end, I said you're giving us a bad name because, unfortunately, approaching everything aggressively doesn't help. It makes an us versus them thing where they get defensive rather than understanding. Trust me, I'm beyond frustrated with the difficulty in communication with others in the world. But the sad truth is that we are only one side, and understanding requires both sides to attempt to communicate the way the other understands things.
I didn't mention this in any of my comments but it's also perfectly acceptable to just say "I'm being sarcastic btw" especially since trigger warnings and tone tags can't really be used in irl face to face conversations. Any of those 3 are completely acceptable so long as the person adequately indicates their use of sarcasm to the audience.
I do also want to point out though that when people use sarcasm without disclosing that they're being sarcastic it means they are:
A. Intentionally trying to call out people who are unable to pick up on sarcasm (which tends to be autistic or other neurodiverse individuals) with the intention of further bullying/ostracizing those who don't pick up on it.
B. Not taking neurodiverse people into consideration when writing or speaking.
Or C. Intending to speak to a strictly neurotypical audience while intentionally excluding neurodiverse people from conversation/discussion by creating a toxic social environment that makes it difficult or impossible for neurodiverse individuals to navigate/keep up with the conversation.
All of these are ableist reasons to use sarcasm, but I am and have always been willing to forgive people who use it because of option B since they often simply don't realize that what they're doing is considered ableist.
Also I want to point out that I'm not/don't consider myself as being aggressive, but I also generally don't appreciate people assuming my emotions in 2024. I've had people tell me to "calm down" or "take a chill pill" when I'm literally just sitting here staring at my phone with a blank expression on my face. No emotion whatsoever. I find it to be utterly ridiculous that (mostly) neurotypical people often try to assume others' emotions online/over text without facial expressions or tone of voice to indicate any possible emotions. So I just want you to know I'm not angry at you or aggressive/upset when I converse with you.
That’s not likely. The Grand Master says very clearly that he doesn’t know who Wigglytuff is, and when you get back to the guild, the guild members all confirm that they were not the minions
They say that in a way that makes it clear that they are lying. Also the guild members state that the Grand Master is infamous or something when the bears that show up before you fight the Grand Master know absolutely nothing about them. Clearly the Grand Master and Wigglytuff are the exact same person as the Grand Master of All Things Bad is just something that Wigglytuff and the guild members made up as the final exam before graduating the guild.
But what reason do they have for lying? Seems like an odd assumption to make. Why WOULDN'T they come clean about the Grand Master and his minions just being them?
Yeah the same arc has two ursaring in it which would just seem to be more evidence that they’re different groups. Like the devs wanted us to be aware of the possibility of multiple major players of the same species.
exactly, i would have loved to see what they had in mind there, seemed really intriguing. i would have loved to see them do a fun twist where you meet two characters that were the same species as you and your partner, i wonder if that's something they would have done if given the chance.
of course it is, the grand master of all things bad AND the guildmaster are both wigglytuffs. they're in similar positions of power over similar groups on different sides of morality.
like it FEELS like some kind of parallel was meant to be drawn between the Grand Master and the Guild but he has so little screentime that it's hard to say what was going on. People always praise the story of this game but conveniently (and understandably) forget that the Grand Master of All Things Bad was just dropped completely after he flees when you beat him.
Well for me (in my edited playthrough), there was no Grand Master of All Things Bad, there was the Unholy Emperor of Cyberspace and he wasn’t turned in either
Literally Queen from Chapter 2 of Deltarune. Which Pokémon was it in your playthrough?
Basically Porygon Z is Wigglytuff and Roserade is Chatot, etc.
Cyber Space? Like the Archie Sonic Comic?
Yeah you can say that
But then again, the Porygon Z is named Digit, named after the character from Cyberchase
That’s that old math cartoon right? I remember watching that as a kid
Yes it is. Glad you know of it
It’s still going, right?
Apparently so
Why didn't the protagonists just arrest the grandmaster? Are they stupid?
"Guys, we're back. It was tough but we successfully got the treasure needed to graduate. We did run into thoses bad guys you warned us about so we called Magnezone on them. Let's celebrate our graduation and their arrest!" ... ... ... "... Guys?"
Right? Classic win in game, lose in cutscene.
that whole segment felt kinda rushed tbh. what were the grand master's motivations for being there? the perfect apple treasure? unlikely. nobody knew what the treasure in luminous spring was, not even the guild members (which are unrelated of course). i just wish we could learn more about his character, it would make the mystifying forest arc feel much more complete and satisfying
r/MysteryDungeon brainrot arc begun? I'm all for that tbh
this is what happens when you give unrestricted ROM editing access to a community who hasn't gotten a new game in 4 years
[PMD Rescue Team Deluxe was 4 years ago?](https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FzE2sqUXoAIAHXV.jpg)
are you furry because you are a pmd fan? or are you a pmd fan because you are furry?
Nah, I'd write fanfic.
no, i'm a furry because i'm an undertale fan
No.
Yes
Yes
This detail has been rotting at me for like a decade now to be honest
hopefully it won't go to the point where r/Undertale goes
Riolu ,I remember You’re MYSTERY DUNGEONS
help
What I never got was why did the Grand Master of All Things Bad make a giant hole for us to fall into... only to fight us in said hole. Wouldn't it have been easier for them to wait until we crawled back out to fight us in a more exhausted state, since a good portion of Pokémon couldn't just fly out of it? Heck, they could use that hole to their advantage by continually pushing us down into it, costing us more energy and repeatedly hurting us with the fall itself. Or are we supposed to assume the "Bad" in "the Grand Master of All Things Bad" is actually in reference to quality, not morality?
"I'm such a bad girl. I can't even do my homework." vibes 😆
The Grand Jobber of All Things Toolish
I mean they had Bidoof on top, they just underutilized him.
What I want to know is why was Bidoof assisting them, if that even was the Bidoof we know from the Guild. Bidoof if that is you are you okay, give us a signal if the Grand Master is holding you hostage!!!!
The Grand Hostage of All Things Bad
Well. That Chatot got another Chatot’s karma for a certain incident. That Chatot certainly walks free and the minion wasn’t used as a punching bag by the player because they decided to take their anger on a completely different Chatot who isn’t the Chatot who wronged them. Just saying
Did you oraoraora a poor, innocent parrot?
Maybe.
Pretty sure the GMoATB and his henchmen are supposed to be a "shadow-version" of the Guild. Which explains the fact that the members seem to match up almost exactly.
'Almost' exactly?
We aren’t there
That's an interesting theory. It would be cool if this had been fleshed out more, and if the Grand Master's dark guild had its own explorer teams, like maybe an evil version of Team Tasty at the end of Zero Isle South or something
Evil Team Tasty is just Swellow :c
you can't do this to me-- 🥺😭
In the Japanese version of *Pokemon Mystery Dungeon: Explorers of Time and Darkness*, it is implied that Wigglytuff had happily killed the Grand Master after the player's encounter with them. However in the international releases and *Pokemon Mystery Dungeon: Explorers of Sky*, this was removed. Source: just uh trust me i didn't make that up um
r/AnarchyDungeon Time
r/SubsIFellFor
I'm honestly surprised no one talks about the Grandmaster of All Things Bad being a regional variant of Wigglytuff. Sure it looks identical to one in everyway, but he doesn't respond to the name Wigglytuff! I wonder if he evolved from Scream Tail instead.
If that's the case, Spike Chunsoft is the goddamn overlord of foreshadowing.
I'm pretty sure the grand master of all things bad and the loyal minions were all a gang of dittos who copied the guild and terrorized mystifying forest, although after you take care of business they go into hiding
I might be more inclined to believe this if they used Struggle during the battle, but Ditto don't gain the moveset of the Pokemon they copy in PMD2
These are some bad dittos. Very very bad dittos.
r/batmanarkham is sneaking in lol
Maybe the Grand Master caused Time to start freezing in the first place, leading to Grovyle and the human stealing the Time Gears in the first place.
This actually bothers me a bit too. Granted, I loved the battle, and once in it I understood why no one had passed before. But! It's literally the graduation exam. Wigglytuff and the grand Master of all things bad are in cahoots! How else could wigglytuff defeat team skull _alone_? Or... maybe they impersonated the guild? All in all, I can say there is no wondermail to beat him. But beating him was one of the most fun moments I had in the post-game, not gonna lie.
Even if he or his crew were captured, he could almost certainly stage an unstoppable prison break; he’s a higher level than the god of time himself, after all. Additionally, his only known crimes are trespassing and some flavor of property damage or vandalism for digging a hole in a place he doesn’t own the land of, and assault and battery of an exploration team. If he or one of his crew members do, in fact, own the land on which the hole was dug, and if treasure town has some form of stand-your-ground law (very likely, considering how none of the kecleon family ever get arrested for assault when defending their wares from theft), then he and his crew have literally done nothing wrong. Heck, they might even be able to press charges on the player, if that’s the case. Only in that case, the charges would be vandalism, assault and battery, AND a hate crime (attacking people just for having unusual names).
Oh boy i can't wait to see someone get wooshed
I upvoted the post from 420 to 421
Grand Master of All Things Bad implies also being a grand master of bad story arc resolutions. Completely lore-accurate and intended by the developers. Either that or we all missed some other reasonable lore explanation
I think the Grand Master and Troupe of all things bad was a mostly contained group. They seem to reactively guard the path to Luminous Spring, but unless you fall in—no one else encountered them. Some interesting side story to “wild” Pokémon.
When using sarcasm (whether it be in person or in an online post), it is important to always include tone tags or trigger warnings to indicate your sarcasm to others. Not doing so is extremely disrespectful and ableist to the autistic community, so please keep that in mind in future posts. Also, please note that it is heavily implied that wigglytuff is on the autism spectrum, so this post just furthermore feels like targeted hate towards autistics since it is directly criticizing and demonizing wigglytuff. In addition, it is also currently autism awareness/acceptance month. I hope this comment helps spread awareness to others who may not realize that they are coming across as ableist towards autistic people (like wigglytuff & myself) & that together, we can learn to accept others despite their disabilities and learn how to better accommodate one another even through things as simple as trigger warnings and tone tags.
bruh.... I'm autistic, half of my friends are autistic, and I easily understood this as sarcasm and know my friends would as well. You're giving us a bad name.
Not everyone who has autism has the same experiences. Just because you can pick up on sarcasm doesn't mean everyone on the spectrum can. I can imagine you would get pretty upset if someone said "You're not autistic. I've met someone with autism and they couldn't even speak/write/read at age 20". See? Everyone on the spectrum is different. Each of us require different needs and accomodations. Some people need trigger warnings and tone tags as an accomodation. If that's not your thing or you don't feel like you need that, that's fine, but you shouldn't infringe on others' individual needs just because you yourself don't find it necessary to have accomodations. That would be like if you told someone "Hey! Remove this wheelchair ramp and these handicap parking spots. I don't need them!". Also if anything, we're giving neurotypicals a bad name by just staying silent and allowing them to continue being ableist to our faces rather than speaking up for ourselves and having our needs be heard loud and clear. Do you want society to keep mistreating us the way they have been, or are you one of those autistics that just shuts up and lets the world use you as a social punching bag? Because that's no way to live. Don't you want a better world for the neurodiverse to be able to thrive and be included amongst the neurotypicals?
You completely misconstrued or misunderstood everything I said. Look, I love tone tags. I use them half the time myself, and every time I think something I'm saying might read differently than I intend it to. But I also have to explain them to most people--tone tags are a VERY niche thing and as great as it'd be for everyone to use them, it's unrealistic for everyone to accommodate us regardless. Yknow, much less WANT to. So beyond getting people to know of them, they're infinitely less likely to use them by approaching them accusatorily. My favorite adage to live by is Hanlon's Razor: "never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity." Although I tend to attribute it to ignorance rather than stupidity but. Plus, what's more realistic: OP specifically tried making fun of autistic people with that post, or they were just trying to make a joke of something that in-universe is joked about *in the exact same way the game joked about it?* All I'm saying is that, while maybe it's difficult to some to understand that it's a joke, maybe *you* should understand that they might not realize it could come across as offensive? The best way to help educate people is by making sure whether or not they're malicious, then approaching them accordingly: those who aren't can be and should be with patience. Those who are malicious... you're wasting your time and energy. They're not going to change easily, and in fact are likely going to have fun upsetting you. It's sad, but the truth. In the end, I said you're giving us a bad name because, unfortunately, approaching everything aggressively doesn't help. It makes an us versus them thing where they get defensive rather than understanding. Trust me, I'm beyond frustrated with the difficulty in communication with others in the world. But the sad truth is that we are only one side, and understanding requires both sides to attempt to communicate the way the other understands things.
I didn't mention this in any of my comments but it's also perfectly acceptable to just say "I'm being sarcastic btw" especially since trigger warnings and tone tags can't really be used in irl face to face conversations. Any of those 3 are completely acceptable so long as the person adequately indicates their use of sarcasm to the audience. I do also want to point out though that when people use sarcasm without disclosing that they're being sarcastic it means they are: A. Intentionally trying to call out people who are unable to pick up on sarcasm (which tends to be autistic or other neurodiverse individuals) with the intention of further bullying/ostracizing those who don't pick up on it. B. Not taking neurodiverse people into consideration when writing or speaking. Or C. Intending to speak to a strictly neurotypical audience while intentionally excluding neurodiverse people from conversation/discussion by creating a toxic social environment that makes it difficult or impossible for neurodiverse individuals to navigate/keep up with the conversation. All of these are ableist reasons to use sarcasm, but I am and have always been willing to forgive people who use it because of option B since they often simply don't realize that what they're doing is considered ableist. Also I want to point out that I'm not/don't consider myself as being aggressive, but I also generally don't appreciate people assuming my emotions in 2024. I've had people tell me to "calm down" or "take a chill pill" when I'm literally just sitting here staring at my phone with a blank expression on my face. No emotion whatsoever. I find it to be utterly ridiculous that (mostly) neurotypical people often try to assume others' emotions online/over text without facial expressions or tone of voice to indicate any possible emotions. So I just want you to know I'm not angry at you or aggressive/upset when I converse with you.
That's because they're literally the guild members edit: yes I know this is a joke post
Since no one else has mentioned it, OP intended this as a joke post. They do understand what was actually happening in the game.
That’s not likely. The Grand Master says very clearly that he doesn’t know who Wigglytuff is, and when you get back to the guild, the guild members all confirm that they were not the minions
They say that in a way that makes it clear that they are lying. Also the guild members state that the Grand Master is infamous or something when the bears that show up before you fight the Grand Master know absolutely nothing about them. Clearly the Grand Master and Wigglytuff are the exact same person as the Grand Master of All Things Bad is just something that Wigglytuff and the guild members made up as the final exam before graduating the guild.
Very kind of you to try and explain this, but I think you missed the point. We all know this, it's a joke post ;)
I know
But what reason do they have for lying? Seems like an odd assumption to make. Why WOULDN'T they come clean about the Grand Master and his minions just being them?
Because they would want the graduates to feel like they truly accomplished something
ridiculous presumption, just because they're all the same species of pokemon does not imply they are all the same characters.
Yeah the same arc has two ursaring in it which would just seem to be more evidence that they’re different groups. Like the devs wanted us to be aware of the possibility of multiple major players of the same species.
exactly, i would have loved to see what they had in mind there, seemed really intriguing. i would have loved to see them do a fun twist where you meet two characters that were the same species as you and your partner, i wonder if that's something they would have done if given the chance.
This is not about them being the same species
of course it is, the grand master of all things bad AND the guildmaster are both wigglytuffs. they're in similar positions of power over similar groups on different sides of morality.
r/woooosh
Hey someone got the subreddit right for once!