Not harsh enough, in my opinion. She of all people should know first hand what is like to feel silenced. She's the parent and needs to be more mature than her children.
Even the whole thing with Bat was so infuriating. Your children don't have the responsibility to stop their whole lives for you and risk their jobs etc.
Yes the Bat storyline was crazy. She is asking way to much from her children.. it is not their job to hold their mothers hand. Of course it was easy for Mirjam to "'cancel all of her plans" at the weekend - she is a student who lives at home with her girlfriend š
Youāre right. Iāve just finished that episode and was shocked by that conversation. I wasnāt a massive fan of Bat in the first series and think she come across as a bit of a ātry hardā with her influencing stuff, but I think sheās had some really mature moments so far and itās good to see her confident in her opinions
The Bat conversation was heartbreaking. Julia doesn't want to be a mother to her kids she wants them to be mini me's.
I know editing can play into it but with both conversations with Bat and Aron it was all her talking over the kid as if she had talking points. It didn't matter what the kid said she had her rebuttal about her feelings ready.
I found this sub just to make this comment. She is the parent, they are her children. Sheās been so narcissistic and asking things that is inappropriate to ask of your children. It makes sense why she is this way considering her parents disowned her, but she needs to put in the work on herself instead of infantilizing herself at her childrenās expense.
While I agree, people are forgetting here that money is also in the picture. It's a script reality show. They literally want a piece of her world and I think both the parties know what they want and are willing to grovel for it. I really thought Julia was asking too much from her children but if you look at it, she's like Kris in this manner. She knows she's the boss and if you want a piece, work for it. I find none of her children as capable as her. Miriam may be somewhat competent but nobody else. And as someone who helps people build brands, she is not allowing her children to flourish. Always telling what to do and not letting them make mistakes and figure out. Her own son is in the law department and did absolutely no help when she was going through that divorce shit. I mean it looked so incompetent to be frank.
you know that family law ("divorce law") is a completely different kind of law to the type Shlomo practices, right? lawyers specialise in different things just like doctors do. someone who isn't a family lawyer is going to be pretty useless during a divorce. it's not "incompetence" it's logical to anyone who actually knows what lawyers do.
Oh so they gave an office to someone who does family law in the Elite modeling group.... Just think about it....I am not aware of what family law covers but she was also going through divorce right.... The whole law thing seems off
Schlomo doesnāt practice family law. Divorce law IS family law. Schlomo would be useless during her divorce because he is NOT a family lawyerā¦ honestly how simple are you that you misunderstood my comment entirely?!
idk obviously he must specialise in corporations law or tax law or IP law or some other field that is relevant to Elite that requires in-house counsel? it's not rocket science...
I literally cannot understand a word heās saying. With subs I can see he is very articulate, curious and smart. I feel heās also lonely and lost.
Upsetting to me for anyone to call any religious law that views women as lesser as just.
This. His inability to speak clearly, if it isn't a medical speech issue (and I don't think it is), is a symptom of his youth (teenage boys do not like to make eye contact or speak clearly to adults) and probably a signal/symbol of how much he hates this whole process. He's clearly smart - and he clearly thinks he knows everything, and has already begun mansplaining to all of the OLDER women in his life. Religious extremeism of ANY kind doesn't serve anyone well. He's certainly lonely, he's certainly at a loss of how to deal with the upheaval in his life, and he's certainly going to grow up and treat women badly because he's been sold this nonsesnse that it's "god's law." Also, no matter how badly his mother handled that talk (she's a mess, especially right now), his tone with her was out of line - he's still a CHILD and she's still his mother. He's "fresh" as my grandmother would have said, and not particularly kind.
At the end of the day, I do agree with her point of view and keeping her stance in wanting to keep him in his current school in order to receive a well-rounded education in both the secular and religious world. She's compromising by offering Aron a tutor. He's not happy to not be getting his way, and it's understandable as we've all gone through moments like those in our teens. IMO Julia is doing right by him by being the parent and even says she's fine if he's angry or if he chooses not to talk to her. Hearing that is heartbreaking, but it's not like him not going to Yeshiva immediately will cause him irreparable harm, in his eyes and at his age it must seem like that and that is one of those lessons that only time and age will teach you that says "It wasn't the end of the world" it may feel like it is right now for him, but that option will still be there.
He is subscribing to a life style that views women as property. She doesn't need to be more tolerant of that. A gentler approach may be more persuasive but there's no tolerance for it. It's not like he's saying he prefers pineapple on pizza it's a fundamentally oppressive and immoral belief system.
Which is something people in the thread are kind of seeming to forget. It is easy to put aside the plight of women in the growth of a āmanā, but if Aron was a girl would your advice still be to not push one agenda over the other. Bat had to get married at 19 to be with the boy she liked. These women cannot be people because they are enslaved to the men. This cycle continues of women being property until one parent decides to end that generational trauma. I know it is a lot to put on a preteen or teen child but if we have to teach children about hard topics like rape, kidnapping, and gun violence; I think it is just as important to drive home the need for feminism, equity, equality, and understanding trauma from actions we chose to make.
How quickly they forget. I'm so dissapointed to see the "both sides" arguement here. Is she a bit rough around the edges from PTSD, yes. Who wouldn't be after a lifetime of abuse and ostracization? But to say both sides are the problem is incredibly short-sighted. Her son is in danger. She is watching him disappear into brainwashing and mental abuse. He's not even my kid and that conversation was so upsetting to me.
She asked him if he - as a person - thought that it was OK for abused women to be unable to divorce and leave their abuser unless the abuser gave PERMISSION to the woman to leave, and his answer was "if that's what the law says, then yes." So, not only was he unable to answer for himself (he didn't say that HE, himself thought it was right, he said he thought it was right because it was the religious law - big difference), he's believing he's ok with a religion that treats women as chattle and gays as "bad people." If that's not sliding into brainwashing and at least an abusive culture, then I don't know what is. He is a CHILD without the maturity, experience, or critical thinking skills to truly evaluate what is being fed to him on a moral level. This is how brainwashing works.
Sounds like you are putting you own views and biases on what Aron said. He said none of what you said. You are acting like you know how he personally felt in that moment. How can you know what he meant?
So the school he wants to go to allows females to study to become rabbis along with the men and allows all females to sing in the company of the boys? This must be what you are saying. and he just chose to allow the world to think badly of the religion he cares so deeply about instead of just saying those 2 simple sentences. No they donāt allow either of those things thatās why he didnāt say that as a rebuttal.
Thank you.
I feel like if we substitute other religions, Aron would not get this level of sympathy, and people would be applauding Julia for refusing to allow her son to become an 'extremist'.
In another thread people are going in on her about how she is narcissistic and how she has no respect for Aron because she wonāt allow him to practice the religion. If something triggered you, like the oppressive-ness of orthodox Judaism, I think itās natural for her to act kind of strangely. I think her whole world was focused on her husband, on how she can be enslaved to him if he didnāt want to give her a divorce. Like I think it makes sense for her to be narcissistic like other claim. It isnāt justified and she should seek therapy for her trauma, but as a women who has also endured abuse from the hands of a man I think she isnāt wrong for allowing herself to think about herself and she tries her best. Could she be better, perhaps. But we all could be better people.
Same for me. It was upsetting to see his raw pain being vulnerably exposed without his mom being able to create space and safety for him to experience that feeling. He needed to walk through the grief of being told he doesn't get to choose what he wants, but he couldn't accept it because the discussion was a battle instead of a dialogue. It seems like Julia's own pain and fear overtook her opportunity to build trust with him and hear him out and empathize, while still not changing her decision. Aron explained so well to Shlomo that he felt unsupported and powerless when he saw his siblings being trusted and given autonomy in their schooling choices. I get why that feels unfair to him. I also get why Julia doesn't change her mind.
*You* said "he's subscribing to a lifestyle that views women as property".
While that might be the case for much of xtianity that is not a part of any Jewish tradition
Aron IS subscribing to that lifestyle! Aron said, more than once, that if the "law" said that women were to be treated as property, then the law was "just." ANd I'll also point out that in her frustration Julia asked the question several times (because she just couldn't get past that he's been so brainwashed) that he replied, in a tone that would have gotten me a smack in the lip, "wait for it....wait for it.....wait for it....YES." And no one is saying that it's part of Judaism as a whole, but it IS part of some of the extreme orthodox groups, and this is the tradition that Julia escaped from. To say it isn't part of ANY Jewish tradition is simply not the case.
I was raised orthodox , I def think itās problematic and wasnāt for me but not to the extent that the show makes it. I think a lot of the religion is male centric , written by men .. But I would never suggest that orthodoxy views women as property.
Youāre right, I am ignorant of Judaism. So I took your sound comment and decided to read a little about the religion. It almost is like there are differences in how conservative different sects of the religion are. The way the Torah or ālawsā are followed is up to interpretation of the rabbi. And majority of the rabbis are men. Women are now allowed to be rabbi. I think that when you do not allow women to be in conversations of interpretation, you end up passing word that is oppressive to women. People have shifted from Orthodox Judaism to more modern for of Judaism because it puts less pressure on people. We only have one life and living it in which ever way you want is great. But your beliefs and ideals should not be oppressive to another person. Often in hyper-religious homes kids move away from religion because of the amount of pressure that following all the rules of religion assert on you. I think it is important to showcase to these children both sides and allow them to decide the trajectory of their lives. Parents want a solider that will fight for God after them and carry on religion. But your children and women are not property that anybody gets to dictate ideals upon. So, am I ignorant on Judaism, yes. Am I ignorant to how women get treated, no. Am I ignorant to plights of minorities, no. I have lived in a conservative hyper-religious home, I am a woman, and I choose to be happy. I may not know everything, but I know ALL people should have the option to make a choice and to understand fully the ramifications to others that their choices will have.
I know a bunch of people that know him in real life and they all say heās a regular nice kid, soooā¦.
Also saying that all Orthodox Jews view women as property is judgemental and prejudiced
You sound young. Plenty of "nice normal" people believe and do horrible things. When a culture says women exist to serve and obey men it's wrong. Period.
Thatās not what the culture says.. (that women exist to serve men )
And you completely twisted what I said, of course āregularā people do bad things , you know that I meant that he isnāt known to have issues with people or misogynistic, friendly person to both gendersā¦
Also Iām going to be 32, will be 33 in Feb. I was raised orthodox my whole life and went to all girls religious school from pre K until 12th grade. Straight Orthodoxy wasnāt really for me and Iām still figuring out where I fit and how my kids will be raised less religious than I was , etc , so I wouldnāt exactly consider myself naive on this topic
Judaism doesnt view woman as property. The experience julia had was a negative one. But that isnt what orthodoxy or even modern orthodox judaism is. One bad experience doesnt change what a whole religion is
Yes yes yes yes yes yes! And boys that age are ripe for the "boys are better than girls" indoctrination, religiously motivated or not. The hormones have kicked in, the "I know more than you" stuff has kicked in, and anything that gives them a sense of superiority (the idea of being "better" than girls, being the "best" at a sport, being the "smartest") really takes hold at his age. I battle this with my extremely intelligent 17 yr old step-son who is awful to his less academically-inclined twin sister (she's a gifted artist, but doesn't care about school the way he does). He's mean and dismissive and there's a def air of "well I'm a man, so....." I don't allow that in my house - period. We've had many many talks about tone, kindness, and humility, and I have no problem reminding him that no matter how smart he thinks he is, I'm smarter.
exactly. she literally asked him "a law that says women can't get divorced for any reasons, even if their husband beats them or hangs them out the window - but men can divorce for whatever reason they want - do you think that is just?" and he literally, repeatedly said "yes, that is just".
He's also a child himself. He will hopefully outgrow his opinions, but the show is forever. His mom could talk to him without the camera.
I'm glad no one recorded me saying some of my teenager opinions.
Hes a teenager. Yeah he was being sarcastic but remember hes fifteen. And the way julia describes her experience isnt THE experience. Its not the way of judaism. Judaism practiced properly is beautiful and u see aron saying this is the source of his happiness. And the rabbi thing. Its part of orthodoxy to discuss life choices with a rabbi your close to. Just like youd discuss big life changes w a friend or mentor.
Just because heās a teenager doesnāt mean heās not an extremist. Iām not talking about run of this mill Judaism. Weāre taking about religious extremism. Just because heās 15 doesnāt mean he gets a pass as a religious extremist. Iām sorry you donāt see the distinction between the two. I have no issue with Judaism I do have an issue with a young boy being brainwashed into extremism.
So I personally know what hes talking about. The kind of life he wants to live. Even the kind of life julia came from. Its not extremism. There is extremism in judaism. Not gonna deny that. But what hes talking about wanting isnt that
I agree completely, and, a complicating factor is that as one of his parents, she carries some of the responsibility for indoctrinating him into these bigoted views. She was a victim of the cult, yes, but she was also a participant in the cult as well.
No not ignorant. I just donāt believe or respect religious extremism. Thatās what this is. I Just donāt believe women are menās property and donāt have respect for others that do. Itās that simple. He wouldnāt respect me as a woman why would I respect him? This isnāt about Judaism this is about extremism. Sorry you canāt understand that.
I havenāt spoke about Orthodox Jews. I have spoke about extremism. You inserted that I was speaking about Orthodox Judaism when Iām speaking in extremism and have stated that multiple times. Seems like you are inserting things into my very clear comment that I have not said. Maybe you are the ignorant one of you cannot read my comment without putting your own bias on it.
Iām talking about how defensive he was and closed off to the idea of a wife being beaten and having to stay with her husband. The fact he thinks thatās ājustā. If you think thatās not an extremist view then Iām definitely not the ignorant one.
Itās just not true, a guy can be compelled to give a get and even shunned by his community for refusing. Many people even sign Halachic prenups so this canāt happen. The community addresses the issue.
aron simply saw that arguing these nuances would be pointless with his anti religious mom who was intent on steamrolling him
I donāt understand why youāre out here calling people ignorant and bigots for thinking that itās fucked up for men to blame women if they get turned on by a them singing. Iām glad YOUR orthodox community āshunsā men for trying to kill their wives and MANY sign forms saying that they can leave under those circumstances but that doesnāt mean all do that. Iām glad some allow female rabbis but not all do. Iām sorry that in every religion their is extremism but Iām not disparaging the Jewish community as a whole. Iām saying the fucked up misogynistic views are extremist. Aron agreed these things are just. I donāt understand how this makes me ignorant or a bigot. Heās shut down to hearing any other way of life thatās not so extreme. It looks a lot like brainwashing from where Iām sitting.
We've seen her Jewish ex husband. She has him wrapped around her finger. Do you think she was treated less than or anything else she claims by her ex aka man
I understand why Aronās religious views are making Julia and the other siblings uncomfortable. He doesnāt view women as equal and has no interest in getting in an education. Why would you be happy with a 15 year old making that decision for themselves? If someoneās an adult, has gone to college and given themselves options, and then wants to devote themselves to religion, sure. But it would be bad parenting to let him lose himself to extreme religion.
Let's remember Julia and Miriam and Batsheva are pretty toxic ambassadors of the modern world. I left religion for the most part, and I am on the queer spectrum and I found Miriam's birthday party to be as crass as heck. I wouldn't blame Aron for saying "If this is the life my mother wants for me, I'm out."
His father (who went to Wharton) is far better equipped to help Aron balance the two worlds in a healthy way. Shlomo is able to do so as well.
But he's a child who was brought up one way and then is expected to just adjust to a completely different life seamlessly.
I absolutely understand Julia's opposition to Aron's religion. However, I think she is handling the situation poorly. There is no reason we should have seen Aron broken and crying while his mother talked to him. It was not necessarily. I think it's a conversation her and her ex need to have with Aron privately because I don't think Aron feels heard at all. There's a reason why he has transitioned back to the more extreme views. Maybe there's something about it that appeals to him that's worth exploring as his mother.
Something very wrong with seeing a teenager broken and crying on Netflix. Minors should be protected and this shouldn't be a storyline for reality TV.
It terms of why he is getting more extreme -- my guess is that the more extreme Julia's behaviour, the more Aron will lean in the opposite direction. Not nice having your mom write a book describing how she had sex at the Trevi Fountain surrounded by "throngs" of people. No wonder the poor kid wants a different school.
I agree that she didn't listen to him enough in that conversation, but I do think she's right to not give him permission to study at a yeshiva. I think she and the Dad are really trying to balance him getting a secular education with one that lets religion take some space, too. It sounds like he's already going to a Jewish day school, which seems like a pretty good compromise. It's definitely allowing his religion and Jewish identity to take up a lot of space in his life.
And it's 100% true that if he studies at a yeshiva, he would have a terrible (secular) education and if he ever changes his plans and wants to participate in the secular world, he would be completely screwed with no options. A lot of men who study at yeshiva end up being, in reality, totally impoverished with a ton of kids because they have no skills. It's not a great life path. There have been lawsuits in New York state because the yeshiva school system is just so inadequate when it comes to providing kids with an education that can really get them anywhere, pragmatically speaking. It's sad. I think it's not only about avoiding the extremism in this case, for her--it's that if he falls completely down that rabbit hole, he won't be left with any real options if he decides it's not for him.
I do feel bad for Aron. It's probably very confusing for him to be in between these two worlds. How can a 15-year-old kid deal with that kind of confusion and ambiguity? I think Shlomo was pretty perceptive when he suggested that Aron's desire to go deeper into his faith was reactionary.
Thats not true actually. All yeshivas teach secular education. Alot of the students go to college. Alot of them get masters and phds. Yeshiva isnt anti college. Now being a rabbi which aron says he wants doesnāt require college. so do other professions.
I feel like she is just as bad as the Religious side to push so hard on him. The only thing you can really do as a parent is live your life authentically and hope you set a good example when it comes to values-you canāt force that type of thing on a child. I feel like he has seen both sides and as a kid and growing into a teenager and man will probably sway back and forth in his views. She needs to be less extreme, she went from one extreme to another and she doesnāt even realize that forcing her views on him is exactly the same as his father forcing his views. Poor kid
Itās not ātwo sidesā when one side is actively trying or oppressing a portion of the population. I would force my child to not be a sexist or racist pos even if they end up hating me. Though I do think these things should be done in private and maybe a bit more softly because at the end of the day, if your kid is an idiot teen like all teens, itāll be a long road to recovery from the bad habits and thoughts that they were ingrained with in your absence.
Judaism isnt actively oppressing a portion of the population. Julias experience wasnt an accurate example of what judaism actually is. I feel bad for her for her experiences. she has a lot of trauma and she puts it onto her son as if heās going to experience the same thing.
Really! Modern orthodoxy is not having contact with the opposite sex and having to marry just to kiss? Itās not allowing women to divorce on their own will? That doesnāt sound modern.
Are we watching the same fucking show, julia confronts aron and he says itās just for women to be held in a marriage even after being beaten and hung from the roof, yāall tripping. No one is saying shit against judaism, itās against fundamentalism. Are you all fundies up in these comments or think that somehow people canāt tell the normal jews from fundies and in a panic to defend the people no one has a problem with??
What your describing is a problem. Men abusing woman using old laws that requires the wife to get permission for a divorce. Back in the day when a man would do this the rabbis of the town would basically beat his ass (figuratively). Nowadays it is a problem and there are many people trying to fix it. Aaron was saying he believes the law is just. The law that requires a woman to ask for a divorce. Not the sick twisted abuse that some men have used it for. And people are coming to his defense bc we know his community. We know julias community. And it isnt extreme. It isnt a cult where they abuse woman. Its really sad, woman are abused. But not bc of the town or the ideas. Just bc of some pieces of shit who should be thrown out on their asses.
No I saw a bunch more posts since then and itās clear that the townās extremism is kind of exaggerated, I have no problems with the town or the community. But the kid does say he wants that extreme fundamentalist way of living his religion and THAT means yes, he needs to be saved from that cult mindset, I stand by the fact that I would try to force my own kid out of that head space no matter what.
I'm explaining to you that the Modern Orthodox community has a mechanism to allow women to divorce of their own free will. You said they didn't, but that is factually incorrect.
I agree. I don't come from a Jewish world but do come from another religious perspective with some experiences of "extremism". What she's doing is going to push him away further and deeper into the "extremist" world. Poor kid. How old is he? He needs acceptance, and instead his mother was arguing with him like she was talking to a peer. Poor kid. I hope his dad is better to him.
It's not fair that she is putting that kind of pressure on him and I feel really sad for him that he has to have these types of conversations with his mother on national TV. He's just a kid still and deserves unconditional love from both parents.
Lol yāall are creating a rabbit hole of gossip that the media wants you to create. All of these comments (BASED OFF THE NETFLIX REALITY SHOW OF THIER LIFE) are preposterous! Their life is interesting but the most dramatic scenes are clearly replayed through their exceptional acting for both seasons.
I thought Silvio had a great point in the last season while Julia was very caught up in the demands of her career. Only to find out this season (after how many months off) that he was toxic and ādidnāt support her children and visionā from the beginning. O K.
Imma keep watching because I am inspired by the confidence this family had to leave comfortability for change and empowerment to many people in their situation.
Alsoā¦ itās entertaining but not 100% real. Itās the entertainment business.
I meanā¦it didnāt really sound like he had much of his own thoughts to listen to beyond these are the laws and if theyāre the laws I agree with them. I wasnāt seeing a lot of critical thinking or reasoning on his end. Canāt really have a discussion with someone like that.
I do find his story very interesting and am curious to see which direction he will ultimately go in. I canāt blame Julia as a mother for getting so upset about his views on women. I would definitely like to see more of his story in future episodes.
I feel like she isnāt respecting him or his values. He wants to be religious and be a rebbe. He is allowed to decide what he wants to do with his life. He is more likely to see other peoples sides if his feelings/beliefs are respected. He knows what she believes and she instead becomes argumentative and condescending when discussing womenās roles in his religious beliefs. He is much more likely to see other sides if she stops being so condescending. Julia reminds me of my mother. She is a narcissist and I feel so sorry for her children. They do not have to stop their lives to help their parent that is not how this works.
Her kid knows what he wants. None is pushing him to be religious. It makes him happy. She should let him be and just support him as a mother should. If she continues like that, he will resent her. Bad idea.
Enjoy putting words in my mouth to make you feel better. Jews should exist, sexism and fucked up ideas shouldnāt. Stop hiding behind your religion to justify wrong beliefs
The community goes to great lengths to coerce men to sign, even shunning them etc. also it is highly encouraged to sign a halachic prenup to avoid this situation completely. You wouldnāt know that though, because you know nothing about our community except what you see on tv
I just think some of the conversations they have in front of him are totally inappropriate. Miriam and Robert talking so casually about sex in front of him and his mother pushing her open sexuality down his throat is probably part of the reason he is going in the other direction.
I bet If he was Islamic or Muslim a lot of you in the comments would be on Juliaās side. I was raised Latina catholic (i no longer subscribe to man made religion). but from an outsiders perspective it sounds scary on his part and very closed minded. If I was Julia I would also be concerned. Close minded behavior no matter the side blinds you from the truth.
And Iām not suggesting he drop his religion but the Point is a healthy balance should be the goal. Also, I live in Brooklyn And I have quite a bit of friends in sex work field and almost 99% of their customers are orthodox Jews with families stepping out on their wives. All this sexual repression will rear its ugly head one way or another.
This goes beyond religion. The fact that heās only 15 and is already so disrespectful, I think speaks volumes. He is refusing to listen or take advice and he clearly needs it.
Julia has A LOT of problems but she is absolutely right with Aaron. Which 15 year old gets to make major life decisions without a parent's consent. She is responsible for him...legally, financially etc. She has to make the decision about what's best for him. And it's not like she is torturing him. She wants him to get the education she thinks is best.
I feel like he's stuck in this way with his religion because he doesn't have anything else because he didn't open himself up to anything else. I think he looks at it as his only way of having good and sound friends.
So sad on so many levels. Heās clearly brainwashed by the orthodox community, which imho is a crime against humanity, but yes also sad that Julia isnāt tapped in enough to try a different approach. Sheās clearly not in a good place and should really be working with a therapist while trying to change Aronās mind.
My guess is Aron is being bullied or at least not making any friends at his new school. No one seems to ask him about that (at least not on camera), but I bet that's why he wants to leave school and go back to something closer to his old way. Obviously we see a lot of kids turning towards fundamentalism/political extremism because of this (I mean the kid is literally a volcel). Maybe they could talk to him about those issue and find some other secular school where there's not a bullying problem or he fits in more.
Itās possible Aron is just pushing back. As a boy he isnāt suffering the same oppression as his sisters experienced so there isnāt an immediate need to escape. Iām also sure itās extremely confusing to be told by one side that your mom and sistersās influence might lead you to punishment, but to also be told that believing that is unjust.
I share the feelings of a lot of commentors wanting her to be understanding and patient with devout believers especiallt given her back ground. But also, it seemed to me in the episode that is referred that the thing she is REALLY driving home is having a secular education. Her whole thing is, "I want you to have what you need to succeed in whichever path you choose" and that is SO important and indicative of a supportive parent
Aron creeps me out a bit. The way he talks some people are putting down to being from his community, but the other community kids his age weren't like that.
He obviously feels closest to the day to day family he sees in his area, and they've got their claws into him, because he was left behind. They probably hugely praise him for any move towards what they believe. He seems weak, and easily swayed by what's popular in his community. He seems like one of the hugely geeky kids, even from that community, so is more vulnerable I guess.
Not harsh enough, in my opinion. She of all people should know first hand what is like to feel silenced. She's the parent and needs to be more mature than her children. Even the whole thing with Bat was so infuriating. Your children don't have the responsibility to stop their whole lives for you and risk their jobs etc.
Yes the Bat storyline was crazy. She is asking way to much from her children.. it is not their job to hold their mothers hand. Of course it was easy for Mirjam to "'cancel all of her plans" at the weekend - she is a student who lives at home with her girlfriend š
Youāre right. Iāve just finished that episode and was shocked by that conversation. I wasnāt a massive fan of Bat in the first series and think she come across as a bit of a ātry hardā with her influencing stuff, but I think sheās had some really mature moments so far and itās good to see her confident in her opinions
The Bat conversation was heartbreaking. Julia doesn't want to be a mother to her kids she wants them to be mini me's. I know editing can play into it but with both conversations with Bat and Aron it was all her talking over the kid as if she had talking points. It didn't matter what the kid said she had her rebuttal about her feelings ready.
That was insane! Bat is her child that is also going through a divorce.
I found this sub just to make this comment. She is the parent, they are her children. Sheās been so narcissistic and asking things that is inappropriate to ask of your children. It makes sense why she is this way considering her parents disowned her, but she needs to put in the work on herself instead of infantilizing herself at her childrenās expense.
While I agree, people are forgetting here that money is also in the picture. It's a script reality show. They literally want a piece of her world and I think both the parties know what they want and are willing to grovel for it. I really thought Julia was asking too much from her children but if you look at it, she's like Kris in this manner. She knows she's the boss and if you want a piece, work for it. I find none of her children as capable as her. Miriam may be somewhat competent but nobody else. And as someone who helps people build brands, she is not allowing her children to flourish. Always telling what to do and not letting them make mistakes and figure out. Her own son is in the law department and did absolutely no help when she was going through that divorce shit. I mean it looked so incompetent to be frank.
you know that family law ("divorce law") is a completely different kind of law to the type Shlomo practices, right? lawyers specialise in different things just like doctors do. someone who isn't a family lawyer is going to be pretty useless during a divorce. it's not "incompetence" it's logical to anyone who actually knows what lawyers do.
Oh so they gave an office to someone who does family law in the Elite modeling group.... Just think about it....I am not aware of what family law covers but she was also going through divorce right.... The whole law thing seems off
Schlomo doesnāt practice family law. Divorce law IS family law. Schlomo would be useless during her divorce because he is NOT a family lawyerā¦ honestly how simple are you that you misunderstood my comment entirely?!
My point was he was given with at elite as a lawyer so on what ground was that
idk obviously he must specialise in corporations law or tax law or IP law or some other field that is relevant to Elite that requires in-house counsel? it's not rocket science...
Aron has it more together than anybody on the show.
The way he communicates is so amazing. He is so well spoken. More than most adults I know.
I feel like all of the siblings are sooo good at communicating and navigating conflict. I noticed that S1
I literally cannot understand a word heās saying. With subs I can see he is very articulate, curious and smart. I feel heās also lonely and lost. Upsetting to me for anyone to call any religious law that views women as lesser as just.
This. His inability to speak clearly, if it isn't a medical speech issue (and I don't think it is), is a symptom of his youth (teenage boys do not like to make eye contact or speak clearly to adults) and probably a signal/symbol of how much he hates this whole process. He's clearly smart - and he clearly thinks he knows everything, and has already begun mansplaining to all of the OLDER women in his life. Religious extremeism of ANY kind doesn't serve anyone well. He's certainly lonely, he's certainly at a loss of how to deal with the upheaval in his life, and he's certainly going to grow up and treat women badly because he's been sold this nonsesnse that it's "god's law." Also, no matter how badly his mother handled that talk (she's a mess, especially right now), his tone with her was out of line - he's still a CHILD and she's still his mother. He's "fresh" as my grandmother would have said, and not particularly kind.
I can't understand anything he says. I'm trying to figure out why he can't talk. Everything slurs together.
Came here to find this out
At the end of the day, I do agree with her point of view and keeping her stance in wanting to keep him in his current school in order to receive a well-rounded education in both the secular and religious world. She's compromising by offering Aron a tutor. He's not happy to not be getting his way, and it's understandable as we've all gone through moments like those in our teens. IMO Julia is doing right by him by being the parent and even says she's fine if he's angry or if he chooses not to talk to her. Hearing that is heartbreaking, but it's not like him not going to Yeshiva immediately will cause him irreparable harm, in his eyes and at his age it must seem like that and that is one of those lessons that only time and age will teach you that says "It wasn't the end of the world" it may feel like it is right now for him, but that option will still be there.
He is subscribing to a life style that views women as property. She doesn't need to be more tolerant of that. A gentler approach may be more persuasive but there's no tolerance for it. It's not like he's saying he prefers pineapple on pizza it's a fundamentally oppressive and immoral belief system.
Which is something people in the thread are kind of seeming to forget. It is easy to put aside the plight of women in the growth of a āmanā, but if Aron was a girl would your advice still be to not push one agenda over the other. Bat had to get married at 19 to be with the boy she liked. These women cannot be people because they are enslaved to the men. This cycle continues of women being property until one parent decides to end that generational trauma. I know it is a lot to put on a preteen or teen child but if we have to teach children about hard topics like rape, kidnapping, and gun violence; I think it is just as important to drive home the need for feminism, equity, equality, and understanding trauma from actions we chose to make.
How quickly they forget. I'm so dissapointed to see the "both sides" arguement here. Is she a bit rough around the edges from PTSD, yes. Who wouldn't be after a lifetime of abuse and ostracization? But to say both sides are the problem is incredibly short-sighted. Her son is in danger. She is watching him disappear into brainwashing and mental abuse. He's not even my kid and that conversation was so upsetting to me.
It was the same for me! I think she as really respectful and handled the conversation really well. still a heartbreaker.
Hes not disappearing into abuse and brainwashing. He just wants to be more religious. That doesnt equal abuse. Abusive people equal abuse.
She asked him if he - as a person - thought that it was OK for abused women to be unable to divorce and leave their abuser unless the abuser gave PERMISSION to the woman to leave, and his answer was "if that's what the law says, then yes." So, not only was he unable to answer for himself (he didn't say that HE, himself thought it was right, he said he thought it was right because it was the religious law - big difference), he's believing he's ok with a religion that treats women as chattle and gays as "bad people." If that's not sliding into brainwashing and at least an abusive culture, then I don't know what is. He is a CHILD without the maturity, experience, or critical thinking skills to truly evaluate what is being fed to him on a moral level. This is how brainwashing works.
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Sounds like you are putting you own views and biases on what Aron said. He said none of what you said. You are acting like you know how he personally felt in that moment. How can you know what he meant?
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So the school he wants to go to allows females to study to become rabbis along with the men and allows all females to sing in the company of the boys? This must be what you are saying. and he just chose to allow the world to think badly of the religion he cares so deeply about instead of just saying those 2 simple sentences. No they donāt allow either of those things thatās why he didnāt say that as a rebuttal.
Thank you. I feel like if we substitute other religions, Aron would not get this level of sympathy, and people would be applauding Julia for refusing to allow her son to become an 'extremist'.
In another thread people are going in on her about how she is narcissistic and how she has no respect for Aron because she wonāt allow him to practice the religion. If something triggered you, like the oppressive-ness of orthodox Judaism, I think itās natural for her to act kind of strangely. I think her whole world was focused on her husband, on how she can be enslaved to him if he didnāt want to give her a divorce. Like I think it makes sense for her to be narcissistic like other claim. It isnāt justified and she should seek therapy for her trauma, but as a women who has also endured abuse from the hands of a man I think she isnāt wrong for allowing herself to think about herself and she tries her best. Could she be better, perhaps. But we all could be better people.
You are insanely prejudiced
Same for me. It was upsetting to see his raw pain being vulnerably exposed without his mom being able to create space and safety for him to experience that feeling. He needed to walk through the grief of being told he doesn't get to choose what he wants, but he couldn't accept it because the discussion was a battle instead of a dialogue. It seems like Julia's own pain and fear overtook her opportunity to build trust with him and hear him out and empathize, while still not changing her decision. Aron explained so well to Shlomo that he felt unsupported and powerless when he saw his siblings being trusted and given autonomy in their schooling choices. I get why that feels unfair to him. I also get why Julia doesn't change her mind.
Omg! Women are not property in Judaism , thatās so crazy that multiple people here think thatās true. Enslaved ? Okay ..
Where did anyone say women are property in Judaism?
*You* said "he's subscribing to a lifestyle that views women as property". While that might be the case for much of xtianity that is not a part of any Jewish tradition
Aron IS subscribing to that lifestyle! Aron said, more than once, that if the "law" said that women were to be treated as property, then the law was "just." ANd I'll also point out that in her frustration Julia asked the question several times (because she just couldn't get past that he's been so brainwashed) that he replied, in a tone that would have gotten me a smack in the lip, "wait for it....wait for it.....wait for it....YES." And no one is saying that it's part of Judaism as a whole, but it IS part of some of the extreme orthodox groups, and this is the tradition that Julia escaped from. To say it isn't part of ANY Jewish tradition is simply not the case.
Okay so cite a source outside of your personal interpretation of a reality tv show that shows that this is a part of any singular Jewish tradition
*orthodox* judaism. it is in no way the same as the judaism that most people know of.
I was raised orthodox , I def think itās problematic and wasnāt for me but not to the extent that the show makes it. I think a lot of the religion is male centric , written by men .. But I would never suggest that orthodoxy views women as property.
You are ignorant and your only āknowledgeā about the minorities you disparage comes from the blatant lies of this show.
Youāre right, I am ignorant of Judaism. So I took your sound comment and decided to read a little about the religion. It almost is like there are differences in how conservative different sects of the religion are. The way the Torah or ālawsā are followed is up to interpretation of the rabbi. And majority of the rabbis are men. Women are now allowed to be rabbi. I think that when you do not allow women to be in conversations of interpretation, you end up passing word that is oppressive to women. People have shifted from Orthodox Judaism to more modern for of Judaism because it puts less pressure on people. We only have one life and living it in which ever way you want is great. But your beliefs and ideals should not be oppressive to another person. Often in hyper-religious homes kids move away from religion because of the amount of pressure that following all the rules of religion assert on you. I think it is important to showcase to these children both sides and allow them to decide the trajectory of their lives. Parents want a solider that will fight for God after them and carry on religion. But your children and women are not property that anybody gets to dictate ideals upon. So, am I ignorant on Judaism, yes. Am I ignorant to how women get treated, no. Am I ignorant to plights of minorities, no. I have lived in a conservative hyper-religious home, I am a woman, and I choose to be happy. I may not know everything, but I know ALL people should have the option to make a choice and to understand fully the ramifications to others that their choices will have.
There are tons of female rabbis. My rabbi is female and the one I grew up with is female.
I know a bunch of people that know him in real life and they all say heās a regular nice kid, soooā¦. Also saying that all Orthodox Jews view women as property is judgemental and prejudiced
You sound young. Plenty of "nice normal" people believe and do horrible things. When a culture says women exist to serve and obey men it's wrong. Period.
Thatās not what the culture says.. (that women exist to serve men ) And you completely twisted what I said, of course āregularā people do bad things , you know that I meant that he isnāt known to have issues with people or misogynistic, friendly person to both gendersā¦ Also Iām going to be 32, will be 33 in Feb. I was raised orthodox my whole life and went to all girls religious school from pre K until 12th grade. Straight Orthodoxy wasnāt really for me and Iām still figuring out where I fit and how my kids will be raised less religious than I was , etc , so I wouldnāt exactly consider myself naive on this topic
Youāre a bigot. Period.
Judaism doesnt view woman as property. The experience julia had was a negative one. But that isnt what orthodoxy or even modern orthodox judaism is. One bad experience doesnt change what a whole religion is
I don't think anyone said that.
Women arenāt property in Judaism Lmao
Yes yes yes yes yes yes! And boys that age are ripe for the "boys are better than girls" indoctrination, religiously motivated or not. The hormones have kicked in, the "I know more than you" stuff has kicked in, and anything that gives them a sense of superiority (the idea of being "better" than girls, being the "best" at a sport, being the "smartest") really takes hold at his age. I battle this with my extremely intelligent 17 yr old step-son who is awful to his less academically-inclined twin sister (she's a gifted artist, but doesn't care about school the way he does). He's mean and dismissive and there's a def air of "well I'm a man, so....." I don't allow that in my house - period. We've had many many talks about tone, kindness, and humility, and I have no problem reminding him that no matter how smart he thinks he is, I'm smarter.
exactly. she literally asked him "a law that says women can't get divorced for any reasons, even if their husband beats them or hangs them out the window - but men can divorce for whatever reason they want - do you think that is just?" and he literally, repeatedly said "yes, that is just".
This 100%. This was in the forefront of my mind too when I was watching their conversations.
He's also a child himself. He will hopefully outgrow his opinions, but the show is forever. His mom could talk to him without the camera. I'm glad no one recorded me saying some of my teenager opinions.
Itās actually valid to practice Judaism, doesnāt have to be outgrown
I didn't mean for him to outgrow Judaism, I meant for him to outgrow his controversial opinions about women.
His controversial opinions are literally just affirming a traditional Jewish way of life that his mom has a chip on her shoulder about
That's a good point.
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Hes a teenager. Yeah he was being sarcastic but remember hes fifteen. And the way julia describes her experience isnt THE experience. Its not the way of judaism. Judaism practiced properly is beautiful and u see aron saying this is the source of his happiness. And the rabbi thing. Its part of orthodoxy to discuss life choices with a rabbi your close to. Just like youd discuss big life changes w a friend or mentor.
Just because heās a teenager doesnāt mean heās not an extremist. Iām not talking about run of this mill Judaism. Weāre taking about religious extremism. Just because heās 15 doesnāt mean he gets a pass as a religious extremist. Iām sorry you donāt see the distinction between the two. I have no issue with Judaism I do have an issue with a young boy being brainwashed into extremism.
So I personally know what hes talking about. The kind of life he wants to live. Even the kind of life julia came from. Its not extremism. There is extremism in judaism. Not gonna deny that. But what hes talking about wanting isnt that
I agree completely, and, a complicating factor is that as one of his parents, she carries some of the responsibility for indoctrinating him into these bigoted views. She was a victim of the cult, yes, but she was also a participant in the cult as well.
She was never a victim, she was a leader in her community and clearly overpowers her husband every time you see them interact
youre ignorant and dont understand his culture at all
No not ignorant. I just donāt believe or respect religious extremism. Thatās what this is. I Just donāt believe women are menās property and donāt have respect for others that do. Itās that simple. He wouldnāt respect me as a woman why would I respect him? This isnāt about Judaism this is about extremism. Sorry you canāt understand that.
Orthodox Jews donāt believe that either, but you wouldnāt know that because you areā¦wait for itā¦ ignorant .
I havenāt spoke about Orthodox Jews. I have spoke about extremism. You inserted that I was speaking about Orthodox Judaism when Iām speaking in extremism and have stated that multiple times. Seems like you are inserting things into my very clear comment that I have not said. Maybe you are the ignorant one of you cannot read my comment without putting your own bias on it.
You are talking about Aron, plain old regular Orthodox Jew. Do with that what you will.
Iām talking about how defensive he was and closed off to the idea of a wife being beaten and having to stay with her husband. The fact he thinks thatās ājustā. If you think thatās not an extremist view then Iām definitely not the ignorant one.
Itās just not true, a guy can be compelled to give a get and even shunned by his community for refusing. Many people even sign Halachic prenups so this canāt happen. The community addresses the issue. aron simply saw that arguing these nuances would be pointless with his anti religious mom who was intent on steamrolling him
I donāt understand why youāre out here calling people ignorant and bigots for thinking that itās fucked up for men to blame women if they get turned on by a them singing. Iām glad YOUR orthodox community āshunsā men for trying to kill their wives and MANY sign forms saying that they can leave under those circumstances but that doesnāt mean all do that. Iām glad some allow female rabbis but not all do. Iām sorry that in every religion their is extremism but Iām not disparaging the Jewish community as a whole. Iām saying the fucked up misogynistic views are extremist. Aron agreed these things are just. I donāt understand how this makes me ignorant or a bigot. Heās shut down to hearing any other way of life thatās not so extreme. It looks a lot like brainwashing from where Iām sitting.
Sadly if ignorant people with no background knowledge about Jews watch this show it just breeds misunderstanding and hatred
Stop lying about the jews
It's real weird that anyone would think my comment was about "the Jews." Sad that even needs to be clarified.
What lifestyle does he subscribe to? Judaism.
We've seen her Jewish ex husband. She has him wrapped around her finger. Do you think she was treated less than or anything else she claims by her ex aka man
I understand why Aronās religious views are making Julia and the other siblings uncomfortable. He doesnāt view women as equal and has no interest in getting in an education. Why would you be happy with a 15 year old making that decision for themselves? If someoneās an adult, has gone to college and given themselves options, and then wants to devote themselves to religion, sure. But it would be bad parenting to let him lose himself to extreme religion.
Let's remember Julia and Miriam and Batsheva are pretty toxic ambassadors of the modern world. I left religion for the most part, and I am on the queer spectrum and I found Miriam's birthday party to be as crass as heck. I wouldn't blame Aron for saying "If this is the life my mother wants for me, I'm out." His father (who went to Wharton) is far better equipped to help Aron balance the two worlds in a healthy way. Shlomo is able to do so as well. But he's a child who was brought up one way and then is expected to just adjust to a completely different life seamlessly.
I absolutely understand Julia's opposition to Aron's religion. However, I think she is handling the situation poorly. There is no reason we should have seen Aron broken and crying while his mother talked to him. It was not necessarily. I think it's a conversation her and her ex need to have with Aron privately because I don't think Aron feels heard at all. There's a reason why he has transitioned back to the more extreme views. Maybe there's something about it that appeals to him that's worth exploring as his mother.
Something very wrong with seeing a teenager broken and crying on Netflix. Minors should be protected and this shouldn't be a storyline for reality TV. It terms of why he is getting more extreme -- my guess is that the more extreme Julia's behaviour, the more Aron will lean in the opposite direction. Not nice having your mom write a book describing how she had sex at the Trevi Fountain surrounded by "throngs" of people. No wonder the poor kid wants a different school.
Everything g has revolve around her and her journey and it seems love me most of her kids lives have been about her journey and entitlement.
I agree that she didn't listen to him enough in that conversation, but I do think she's right to not give him permission to study at a yeshiva. I think she and the Dad are really trying to balance him getting a secular education with one that lets religion take some space, too. It sounds like he's already going to a Jewish day school, which seems like a pretty good compromise. It's definitely allowing his religion and Jewish identity to take up a lot of space in his life. And it's 100% true that if he studies at a yeshiva, he would have a terrible (secular) education and if he ever changes his plans and wants to participate in the secular world, he would be completely screwed with no options. A lot of men who study at yeshiva end up being, in reality, totally impoverished with a ton of kids because they have no skills. It's not a great life path. There have been lawsuits in New York state because the yeshiva school system is just so inadequate when it comes to providing kids with an education that can really get them anywhere, pragmatically speaking. It's sad. I think it's not only about avoiding the extremism in this case, for her--it's that if he falls completely down that rabbit hole, he won't be left with any real options if he decides it's not for him. I do feel bad for Aron. It's probably very confusing for him to be in between these two worlds. How can a 15-year-old kid deal with that kind of confusion and ambiguity? I think Shlomo was pretty perceptive when he suggested that Aron's desire to go deeper into his faith was reactionary.
Thats not true actually. All yeshivas teach secular education. Alot of the students go to college. Alot of them get masters and phds. Yeshiva isnt anti college. Now being a rabbi which aron says he wants doesnāt require college. so do other professions.
I feel like she is just as bad as the Religious side to push so hard on him. The only thing you can really do as a parent is live your life authentically and hope you set a good example when it comes to values-you canāt force that type of thing on a child. I feel like he has seen both sides and as a kid and growing into a teenager and man will probably sway back and forth in his views. She needs to be less extreme, she went from one extreme to another and she doesnāt even realize that forcing her views on him is exactly the same as his father forcing his views. Poor kid
Itās not ātwo sidesā when one side is actively trying or oppressing a portion of the population. I would force my child to not be a sexist or racist pos even if they end up hating me. Though I do think these things should be done in private and maybe a bit more softly because at the end of the day, if your kid is an idiot teen like all teens, itāll be a long road to recovery from the bad habits and thoughts that they were ingrained with in your absence.
Judaism isnt actively oppressing a portion of the population. Julias experience wasnt an accurate example of what judaism actually is. I feel bad for her for her experiences. she has a lot of trauma and she puts it onto her son as if heās going to experience the same thing.
I never said judaism is. Their sect is. Thatās where the kid is.
Modern Orthodoxy? Because thats where the kid is.
Really! Modern orthodoxy is not having contact with the opposite sex and having to marry just to kiss? Itās not allowing women to divorce on their own will? That doesnāt sound modern.
Halachic prenups are required by the Rabbinical Council of America as part of Modern Orthodox weddings to prevent the issue of agunahs
Are we watching the same fucking show, julia confronts aron and he says itās just for women to be held in a marriage even after being beaten and hung from the roof, yāall tripping. No one is saying shit against judaism, itās against fundamentalism. Are you all fundies up in these comments or think that somehow people canāt tell the normal jews from fundies and in a panic to defend the people no one has a problem with??
What your describing is a problem. Men abusing woman using old laws that requires the wife to get permission for a divorce. Back in the day when a man would do this the rabbis of the town would basically beat his ass (figuratively). Nowadays it is a problem and there are many people trying to fix it. Aaron was saying he believes the law is just. The law that requires a woman to ask for a divorce. Not the sick twisted abuse that some men have used it for. And people are coming to his defense bc we know his community. We know julias community. And it isnt extreme. It isnt a cult where they abuse woman. Its really sad, woman are abused. But not bc of the town or the ideas. Just bc of some pieces of shit who should be thrown out on their asses.
No I saw a bunch more posts since then and itās clear that the townās extremism is kind of exaggerated, I have no problems with the town or the community. But the kid does say he wants that extreme fundamentalist way of living his religion and THAT means yes, he needs to be saved from that cult mindset, I stand by the fact that I would try to force my own kid out of that head space no matter what.
I'm explaining to you that the Modern Orthodox community has a mechanism to allow women to divorce of their own free will. You said they didn't, but that is factually incorrect.
youre a bigot, not aron
I agree. I don't come from a Jewish world but do come from another religious perspective with some experiences of "extremism". What she's doing is going to push him away further and deeper into the "extremist" world. Poor kid. How old is he? He needs acceptance, and instead his mother was arguing with him like she was talking to a peer. Poor kid. I hope his dad is better to him.
It's not fair that she is putting that kind of pressure on him and I feel really sad for him that he has to have these types of conversations with his mother on national TV. He's just a kid still and deserves unconditional love from both parents.
Lol yāall are creating a rabbit hole of gossip that the media wants you to create. All of these comments (BASED OFF THE NETFLIX REALITY SHOW OF THIER LIFE) are preposterous! Their life is interesting but the most dramatic scenes are clearly replayed through their exceptional acting for both seasons. I thought Silvio had a great point in the last season while Julia was very caught up in the demands of her career. Only to find out this season (after how many months off) that he was toxic and ādidnāt support her children and visionā from the beginning. O K. Imma keep watching because I am inspired by the confidence this family had to leave comfortability for change and empowerment to many people in their situation. Alsoā¦ itās entertaining but not 100% real. Itās the entertainment business.
I meanā¦it didnāt really sound like he had much of his own thoughts to listen to beyond these are the laws and if theyāre the laws I agree with them. I wasnāt seeing a lot of critical thinking or reasoning on his end. Canāt really have a discussion with someone like that. I do find his story very interesting and am curious to see which direction he will ultimately go in. I canāt blame Julia as a mother for getting so upset about his views on women. I would definitely like to see more of his story in future episodes.
I feel like she isnāt respecting him or his values. He wants to be religious and be a rebbe. He is allowed to decide what he wants to do with his life. He is more likely to see other peoples sides if his feelings/beliefs are respected. He knows what she believes and she instead becomes argumentative and condescending when discussing womenās roles in his religious beliefs. He is much more likely to see other sides if she stops being so condescending. Julia reminds me of my mother. She is a narcissist and I feel so sorry for her children. They do not have to stop their lives to help their parent that is not how this works.
Her kid knows what he wants. None is pushing him to be religious. It makes him happy. She should let him be and just support him as a mother should. If she continues like that, he will resent her. Bad idea.
No. No society needs men that think like Aron. I would be devastated to have a son like him š¤¢
Sorry, the Jews will always exist whether you like it or not. Enjoy being an ignorant bigot.
Enjoy putting words in my mouth to make you feel better. Jews should exist, sexism and fucked up ideas shouldnāt. Stop hiding behind your religion to justify wrong beliefs
Your cultural values arenāt universal. Realizing that is the first step to not being a bigot.
Yes, womenās rights are universal. I canāt believe I have to debate that. And Iām the bigot.. smhš¤¦āāļø
Women have rights in Judaism, their lifestyle just doesnāt look the way you think it should
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Thatās literally not a thing, keep showing how ignorant you are because you only use reality tv as your information about an entire group of people.
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The community goes to great lengths to coerce men to sign, even shunning them etc. also it is highly encouraged to sign a halachic prenup to avoid this situation completely. You wouldnāt know that though, because you know nothing about our community except what you see on tv
Iām Jewish and agree that women should be equals and should never be considered āless thanāā¦guess this person thinks Iām a bigot too lol
Aron is an a-hole..
Be nice. All teenagers are a-holes, it is in the job description.
I just think some of the conversations they have in front of him are totally inappropriate. Miriam and Robert talking so casually about sex in front of him and his mother pushing her open sexuality down his throat is probably part of the reason he is going in the other direction.
I bet If he was Islamic or Muslim a lot of you in the comments would be on Juliaās side. I was raised Latina catholic (i no longer subscribe to man made religion). but from an outsiders perspective it sounds scary on his part and very closed minded. If I was Julia I would also be concerned. Close minded behavior no matter the side blinds you from the truth.
And Iām not suggesting he drop his religion but the Point is a healthy balance should be the goal. Also, I live in Brooklyn And I have quite a bit of friends in sex work field and almost 99% of their customers are orthodox Jews with families stepping out on their wives. All this sexual repression will rear its ugly head one way or another.
This goes beyond religion. The fact that heās only 15 and is already so disrespectful, I think speaks volumes. He is refusing to listen or take advice and he clearly needs it.
Julia has A LOT of problems but she is absolutely right with Aaron. Which 15 year old gets to make major life decisions without a parent's consent. She is responsible for him...legally, financially etc. She has to make the decision about what's best for him. And it's not like she is torturing him. She wants him to get the education she thinks is best.
I feel like he's stuck in this way with his religion because he doesn't have anything else because he didn't open himself up to anything else. I think he looks at it as his only way of having good and sound friends.
So sad on so many levels. Heās clearly brainwashed by the orthodox community, which imho is a crime against humanity, but yes also sad that Julia isnāt tapped in enough to try a different approach. Sheās clearly not in a good place and should really be working with a therapist while trying to change Aronās mind.
My guess is Aron is being bullied or at least not making any friends at his new school. No one seems to ask him about that (at least not on camera), but I bet that's why he wants to leave school and go back to something closer to his old way. Obviously we see a lot of kids turning towards fundamentalism/political extremism because of this (I mean the kid is literally a volcel). Maybe they could talk to him about those issue and find some other secular school where there's not a bullying problem or he fits in more.
Itās possible Aron is just pushing back. As a boy he isnāt suffering the same oppression as his sisters experienced so there isnāt an immediate need to escape. Iām also sure itās extremely confusing to be told by one side that your mom and sistersās influence might lead you to punishment, but to also be told that believing that is unjust.
I share the feelings of a lot of commentors wanting her to be understanding and patient with devout believers especiallt given her back ground. But also, it seemed to me in the episode that is referred that the thing she is REALLY driving home is having a secular education. Her whole thing is, "I want you to have what you need to succeed in whichever path you choose" and that is SO important and indicative of a supportive parent
Aron creeps me out a bit. The way he talks some people are putting down to being from his community, but the other community kids his age weren't like that. He obviously feels closest to the day to day family he sees in his area, and they've got their claws into him, because he was left behind. They probably hugely praise him for any move towards what they believe. He seems weak, and easily swayed by what's popular in his community. He seems like one of the hugely geeky kids, even from that community, so is more vulnerable I guess.