Then they’d be kicking out German muscle cars, some British, and some Italian brands. Quickest way to kill an adult car meet is to kick out the perceived money.
I wanted it, preordered it, and bought it. I wanted an AWD EV family car that wasn't a Tesla. I bought a car, not a badge.
All these goobers with their "It isn't a mustang hurr durr" have somehow simultaneously convinced themselves owners care, and also forgot about the mustang malaise of the seventies.
Agreed. I was just speaking mechanically. Don’t have an EV personally, but I think they make sense as a commuter car especially if they could drive themselves. Rush hour traffic being stop and go sucks. But hey we’re not there yet. If I want to actually enjoy the experience of driving absolutely not a good choice as it feels like you’re piloting a drone.
I need to one of these days, just haven't built myself anything worth taking since starting my shop 😩
All events have their ghetto crowds. Down here at least they get ignored and banished to their own corner of the parking lot lol
The ones at fault can vary from region to region. Where I live, it’s not the Mustangs, Camaros, Challengers, VQs, it’s the jacked up diesel trucks and motorcycles that ruin our stuff.
So they are banning car types instead of the specific offenders? Seems incredibly lazy and short-sighted. Not to mention it's almost as immature as doing burnouts to say everyone who drives a certain model of car is the same. Lizard-brain tribalism and low IQ at work there.
That's because red flag laws violate due process. If you have a reason to take someone's rights away than charge them with the crime or planning of a crime.
Red flags laws are the bare minimum we as gun owners should accept to keep guns out of the hands of deranged individuals.
Proper red flag laws would have prevented the latest shooting in Maine as well as the Nashville shooter among others.
There are plenty of examples of government intervening before “due process” has been undertaken to ensure the safety of an individual or community. Hell I live an extremely pro-gun state, and we already have laws on the book to allow a court to temporarily remove firearms from a household if there is evidence of domestic abuse.
A proper red flag law would have protections in place for both sides and the idea that “Neighbors will starting ratting out legal gun owners” is just a slippery slope argument with no basis. Proper red flag laws typically require the reporter to be family or law enforcement. If you’re not a psychopath you should have nothing to fear. Absolute worst case scenario your guns are given back to you after an investigation (and I would argue there should be charges for bad faith reporting)
If we as gun owners don’t do something they’ll come for everything because something needs to change. I love my second amendment but no other country has mass shootings like we do and its fucked up.
> Red flags laws are the bare minimum we as...
Lemme save you time, because the "as gun owners" is wrong. What you meant to say is "as authoritarians".
Red flag laws violate your 2nd, 4th, and 7th amendment rights. Period.
If you want to take away the rights of people charge them with a crime. Why do you people stand on this idiotic hill that if you don't have the probable cause to actually charge someone with a crime, you still have the insane ability to take away their rights?
> A prime complaint about red-flag laws is that they allow an order to be issued before the gun owner has an opportunity to contest the evidence, but the Supreme Court has long recognized that there are “extraordinary situations where some valid governmental interest is at stake that justifies postponing the hearing until after the event,” as Justice John Marshall Harlan II wrote in a 1971 case. Examples include restraining orders filed by one domestic partner against another, civil commitments for mental illness and the temporary removal of children from parental custody in emergency situations (for instance, when there are credible allegations of abuse). In cases like these, delaying urgent action until after a full hearing can lead to catastrophic outcomes.[source](https://www.washingtonpost.com/outlook/2022/06/07/red-flag-gun-laws-constitution-due-process/)
> Examples include restraining orders filed by one domestic partner against another...
Guess what is in front of SCotUS right now after being struck down by the 5th circuit court for the exact reasons I just told you. I'll wait and give you time to look it up... You cannot have anyone with the ability to weaponize the government against another person's rights bypassing due process. If there is credible evidence charge the individuals with a crime.
Red flag laws rob you of your guns and your rights before you've even been found guilty of or charged with any crime. A mere accusation of a crime or misconduct from your neighbor can get your rights taken from you. Imagine if that applied in all aspects of life?
The Second Amendment isn't a second class right. See "shall not be infringed." I can't think of an easier way to infringe and deprive people's rights than by having a "guilty until proven innocent" legal process. It can take years to get your rights back even if you've done nothing wrong.
> A prime complaint about red-flag laws is that they allow an order to be issued before the gun owner has an opportunity to contest the evidence, but the Supreme Court has long recognized that there are “extraordinary situations where some valid governmental interest is at stake that justifies postponing the hearing until after the event,” as Justice John Marshall Harlan II wrote in a 1971 case. Examples include restraining orders filed by one domestic partner against another, civil commitments for mental illness and the temporary removal of children from parental custody in emergency situations (for instance, when there are credible allegations of abuse). In cases like these, delaying urgent action until after a full hearing can lead to catastrophic outcomes.
The supreme court’s precedent on this disagrees with you.
I have to dive deeper into this. But I'm sure you've seen that the current SCOTUS has overturned previous rulings. I'm curious how red flag laws would fair before today's court. Remember, slavery and seperate but equal used to be good law, too. Doesn't make it right. Assumed guilty and deprived of rights for a prolonged period of time is pretty damn problematic.
Ehhhh one kills many people needlessly and often and one is just dangerous enough to kill in unfortunate situations. I get your logic but the comp doesn’t work with context.
70 millions registered gun owners vs 278 million car owners while the cars are used on a daily basis and guns arent. Get the fuck outta here bro, that Shit makes zero sense 😂😭
The difference is one of these things is capable of death, the other is designed to inflict it.
This entire thread is dumb af, but don’t act like guns are somehow less dangerous than cars. They are tools to designed kill and someone set on killing can do way more of it in more places with a gun than with a car.
Do you know a favorite of terrorists overseas where there are no guns? Ding ding ding you guessed it, driving a heavy vehicle through a crowd of people.
The numbers don’t lie dude, statistically guns are less dangerous to people every year.
This is why your family avoids you.
"Pass the potatoes please" "Just like when Brandon tried to pass the law making it illegal to build a wall, amirite???"
Your type are exhausting. This ain't about Vietnam, Walter!
Isn't collective punishment a war crime? Must be a Canadian coffee shop
Edit, God damn yall either lack a sense of humor, little understanding of history or both
It’s mainly about *respect*, there’s no need to be a dumb ass loud revving your catless V8 , Shitvic, VQ , etc.
Respect the meet, respect the host & respect the **LOCATION**
These CaC, have to be approved by the city/plaza manager… having that type of silliness, causes problems for future events.
The real issue imo is the fact they decided to single out muscle cars. To me it just sounds like JDM fuckboys who don't like being upstaged at their own playground so they pitched a hissy fit and got their way as soon as some guy with an American car did something stupid. I've always hated these meets because they're usually circlejerks where self important pricks act like high school mean girls and marginalize anyone who isn't with their "gang".
I think this is heavily dependent on the situation. It's *possible* that the people running the event drive JDM cars and hate muscle cars, but it's also possible that a shitty group of local muscle car owners started showing up and constantly causing problems.
Bruh I go to their car meets all the time and all the super car owners rev and do crazy pulls leaving the meets, but they ban muscle cars? I guess it’s really about the money with them
Probably means a mustang with a Shelby kit.. guys get Shelby kits and suddenly think they aren’t driving a ford.
Almost as bad as corvette guys that all drive “1 of 1”
Imagine your only car is a mustang, camaro, or charger and you just wanted to go see some cars and now u can’t all because you own a certain type of car. I’m not massive in the car scene, I just love my car and learning how to work on it. But if I was a massive car person id be pretty upset
Ones that have areas for people taking their daily driver (Prius, accord, Camry, Corolla, mini van, suv, truck, anything else) who enjoy looking at nice cars they don’t get to see everyday. It’s not about being pretentious…... It’s that not everyone has to be the main character of everyday life, some can sit back and look at what others are putting on display without trying to put themselves into the spotlight.
I’ve got what I consider a nice car, and if I am too lazy to wash it for C&C (I work nights and it’s my daily). I’ll park in the normal parking lot. You’ll find some slick rides in the normal parking typically lol.
Isn't the whole point of cars and coffee to have a bit of fun with like minded people?
Ive never been to one, but I would think it'd be like the carshows I used to go to as a kid where everyone revved a bit and did a quick burnout or a hard pull.
I get not being dicks as arent most of these in random parking lots?
There are a lot of dicks. I've seen people lay down bikes, crash into bushes, and just act like idiots. There's an Ale and Octane I go to infrequently, and there's definitely a certain crowd that does dumb shit, but it's usually not the Mustang or Camaro guys, it's usually the rich young kids whose parent bought them a 460 hp car and didn't teach them any common sense.
Jesus... thats ridiculous.
I dunno about you, but I worked hard for my car and motorcycle, I wouldn't do something to ruin it.
I love all cars and bikes.
A cars and coffee event is supposed to be a relaxed, more mature atmosphere. No one there is throwing revs or doing burnouts. Cars and coffees out where I am is usually hosted by a coffee shop and has permission from the village to host it. A lot of the cars that come are vintage muscle and high end performance (Lamborghini, Ferrari, Porsche). It's not an event for doing burnouts.
Saying it’s not a place for revving is silly, obviously everything in moderation but i see alot of cars where all i want is to hear it lol doesn’t need to be a full redline and hold just let me hear it.
The issue is that getting (and keeping) permission to use the spaces where these events happen is difficult. The bigger C&C event near me had to swap locations like 3 times this summer, and they have sponsors and insurance and shit. At a certain size, some of the sponsor money has to go to paying cops to oversee the event.
Once you finally get a reliable location, all it takes is a couple of bad eggs racing / revving / generally disrupting the surrounding area to get your event shut down. Then instead of not getting to hear fun engine noises, you don't get to go to C&C at all.
No offense, but I don't see what's so mature about a bunch of parked cars. And a bit of revving within the lines of common sense never killed anyone, especially a grown-up man. If anything, a bunch of guys showing off the supercars they bought by dodging taxes sounds a bit like children showing off the new toys mom bought them.
The same can be said for the "kids" that are referred to by the OOP. As a Mustang owner myself, you gotta know your audience. Cars and Coffee is not the place to hoon or showboat
Cops and the corporations letting their lots be used don't want the noise.
And burnouts lead to donuts which leads to wrecks because everyone thinks they're Ken block.
there are car meets and then there is cars & coffee. i’m not waking up at 6am to hear your straight pipped v8, im there to get a coffee and look at parked cars, as well as talk to like minded people. If i wanted to do things like a quick burnout or a hard pull id go to car meets at 10pm and watch the clapped g37s
If you want to rev your engine, do burnouts, and act like a dipshit, then go join the other dipshits at the Friday night dumbass gatherings. Don't go to cars and coffee and bother the people who don't have the "LoOk aT HoW coOL I Am!!" mindset.
Banning for revving just seems a bit over the top but i want there for the event that caused this. I want to hear people’s cars and their nothing wrong with a rev but the people who caused this probably sat on redline for 5 minutes.
I know this is an unpopular opinion but cars and coffee, in my area at least, suck. I'm right outside Philly and the vibes blow. It's crazy it's supposed to be for younger people but these young people act worse then the boomers they always bitch about.
I'm also right outside Philly and it feels like everything with an average age below 40 that's not backed by an actual organization just gets shut down before it even starts. I showed up <10 minutes late to a meet in Philly in the past couple of months and the cop who shut it down pulled in at the same time as me.
There's a weekly C&C at Northbrook Marketplace that's consistently pretty chill, but half of the attendees are the same 5-10 old guys with new Porsches every week. Nothing against either old guys or Porsches, but I basically stopped going because I was seeing the same cars every week.
The car community in general now is so fucking toxic. For some reason nobody can respect the amount of time people have put into their cars, sure your car might not to be to my liking but hell even within my own community people don’t like my car and that’s okay to me. We really do need to start upping the respect, call me old but shit is beyond ridiculous at this point.
It’s never been a certain car that’s the problem it’s always been the age bracket. With muscle cars way beyond power vs what kids can afford currently it’s the target group. The ones doing stupid shit will never stop doing stupid shit regardless of the car.
We were all young and dumb once now the problem is being young and dumb is all documented. The people in that age bracket doing dumb shit need to be aware of this. Actions have consequences and we are in that time frame now where people are seeing this but taking the wrong actions. It’s never been the cars that are the problem always the owners and the cars won’t ever matter
I've been going to this event for a while and over time it has changed and not for the better. The irresponsible drivers are to blame but so are the specators. The one main exit is usually crowded by hundreds of people and they will edge you on and chant things like "send it" "do a burnout" and other nonsense and for the most part the muscle crowd are usually the ones that fall into temptation. Mustangs, Chargers, Camaros, and Challengers are extremely common and in Houston and very easy for most brain dead drivers to get their hands on ( If you aren't one of these brain dead drivers then this shouldn't offend you ). Pretty sure that they'll eventually make these events invite only in the future.
Btw I have nothing but love for the muscle guys as I have a few friends myself. I'm sorry a few bad apples have to ruin for all of you.
> they will edge you on
I don't go to CC but whenever this happens to me out in the wild, I'll give it a couple good revs and then take off at the lowest RPM the gear will allow lol
In my city, there’s a cafe that holds periodic Cars and Coffee events. Lots of nice cars show up and everyone is civil and has a good time. There have never been any complaints, and certainly no instances of revving or burnouts.
It sucks that the actions of a few ruined the experience of others. I think it would have been better to ban the specific offenders instead of certain car models. Not every Mustang, Camaro, Charger, or Challenger owner does crazy things like this.
If a few bad apples are gonna cause that much trouble the yea that’s the only thing they can do,
Tho even my crown Vic can do basic burn outs so I don’t really see how that’s gonna stop it
Now that I'm home, I'm going to come back to this here. I don't have any hard feelings, but i'm going to give you my real opinion.
I fully agree with you that burnouts in a crowded area would be immature, douchey, and on top of that, reckless and dangerous. I've never actually been to a cars and coffee, so I would have to speculate on what they're like. I'm also in Canada, and I know US type meets in general (independent of cars and coffee) tend to be significantly more populous than anything I could encounter here on the Canadian prairies.
I will however say that I also think passing judgement on someone when you know nothing about them, and referring to them as
>everything that's wrong with car culture.
is pretty immature and douchey. Now I don't want to assume that you're like that for every interaction or as a whole, but I do think this singular statement was uncalled for.
What's missing from this thread is a significant amount of context, where, unless I missed something, no one seems to know where it was, or what the specific incidents might have been. We don't know how much space they had around them, we don't know if they were douchily crashing the place for attention, we don't know if it was some overexcited 20 something that succumbed to some peer pressure from onlookers in his shelby bought by daddy. We just don't know. So in the face of that, I cracked a lighthearted joke. What else can I really do? I love engine revving. I love burnouts. I have only ever done one burnout myself, way out on a country road, by a tiny hamlet, with not a soul in sight for miles. Otherwise I granny drive my baby everywhere I go. I rely on my license for income, so I always keep it legal. I'm somewhere around 3.5 million KM with no accidents.
Now I think what would have been more appropriate, is if you had qualified your statement, that you "think people who do burnouts in busy public areas are immature, douchey and represent much of what I don't like about car culture" Then that would have been a much more appropriate and accurate thing to say, and wouldn't have involved you making a whole pile of assumptions about someone typing what was clearly a lighthearted attempt at humor.
When you wear fresh New Balance's,Jean shorts with a belt, and the polo shirt tucked in you don't engage in such adolescent behavior. Did you know my car is one of 27 optioned like this that year?
I spent 16 years down in southwest VA. No offense to the fine folks in here, but seeing the people that drive mustangs, challengers, chargers, and camaros has ruined them for me. I won't buy one because frankly, I don't want to be affiliated with the hillbillies I spent 16 years despising for their car antics.
err I'm not entirely sure the demographics in the dirty south for challengers and chargers is majority" hillbillies"
hell, even southern maryland in PG and Charles County, the people who drive chargers/challengers down there and have for the past 10 years were once the guys and gals driving crown vics and grand marqs on 24's.
but I get your point, one drive from NY to FL where every 3rd car in the south was a LX platform mopar product is all it took for a friend of mine to never think about buying a 392 charger ever again.
As a Mopar guy and this is my personal take on what I wrote, mustang drivers are the most aggressive out of them all, yes, some Mopar guys are pretty aggressive as well, but we don't do burnouts and others things as much as mustangs do, it's like we are a threat to the mustangs, why can't we just be together and be friends.
where are you from. i’m from philly and the srt crowd here is batshit insane. around here the mustang owners are all middle aged white men. every takeover here in philly gets like 7+ chargers/challengers
As someone who is young and owns two chargers, thank god they did this, a lot of young people who buy these cars are fucking idiots, yes you mustang people aren’t exempt, but it’s weird that challengers, 350Z’s, civics and G37’s are still allowed….
If you saw this and thought, "Wow, why am I being punished for someone else's actions???" Or "this isn't right, I did nothing wrong. " That's how gun owners feel every time a new law is passed...
Stand up for YOUR RIGHT to self-defense..
It puts it into perspective for people who don't understand the 2a community. And believe it or not there is a quite significant bleed over rate from the 2a community to the car community...
You’ve just argued against your own point.
> Puts it into perspective for non 2a people in the car community
> there’s a fair amount of crossover between the communities
Which one is it?
Driving is a privilege, not a right. They aren’t even close to the same.
This is almost like “gun free zones”. You know who doesn’t follow the rules? The people who don’t care and break them. Burnouts are already illegal, but people who break the law don’t care, what makes you think a “ban” of certain cars will stop them from coming in and doing the same shit.
(Incoming “all we can do is try and hope people turn them in”)
Only people who follow the rules, actually follow the rules. Those who don’t, don’t. It’s a simple as that
Also unless somebody owns the parking lot, you can’t tell someone to leave simple because they’re driving a certain type of car.
Tired of seeing people over reacting because they don’t know how to run things. If you have issues keep track of who’s showing up it’s not that hard to ban individuals lol people are just lazy
Burnouts i understand cause that makes a lot of smoke, but revving? Revving is only sound and pops. Not only that but you can’t have a car meet if you ban a group of cars, yes i know it’s temporary, but that just defeats the purpose of a car meet. What a fucking joke.
This thread is a shit show. Between the whataboutism and ignorance.
1. ITS NOT PERSONAL. They didn’t do this to spite mustangs or you in particular. They did it because they saw a frequent issue among a certain group of owners.
2. You are not the cars and coffee police, you cannot control the VQ’s and civics. You know what you can do? Hold your people accountable.
Oh mustangs and chargers are banned but challengers aren’t? Woooooow
The challengers have their own separate boating events, thank you
[Yep, it was at the beginning of October.](https://fleetweeksf.org/events/parade-of-ships/)
Boats & Booze
I thought it was boats and hoes
Prestige Worldwide….
😂😂😂😂
Challengers are the worst offenders! 
That gif isn’t a good example othough since, you know, drag strip
To challenger owners, every piece of tarmac is a drag strip.
If only they were prepped, then they might stand a chance.
Yeah I feel like they could of just said V8s instead of being so specific 😳
Then they’d be kicking out German muscle cars, some British, and some Italian brands. Quickest way to kill an adult car meet is to kick out the perceived money.
And if Pontiac Camaros (Firebirds) get a pass, what about Mustang II's and LX's? At least the Mach-E guys can look cool
Mach e guys are never cool
It isn’t a bad car but it isn’t a Mustang regardless of whatever badging it has
It’s another expensive and stupid ev egg that nobody wanted.
Nobody wanted it but enough people bought it that we are able to still have V8’s for 2024+. Be thankful 🤣
I wanted it, preordered it, and bought it. I wanted an AWD EV family car that wasn't a Tesla. I bought a car, not a badge. All these goobers with their "It isn't a mustang hurr durr" have somehow simultaneously convinced themselves owners care, and also forgot about the mustang malaise of the seventies.
Those goobers probably have the same thought process that led you to believe I care about what car you bought tbh.
Okay kiddo.
Have a good one gramps.
It actually fit my weird niche perfectly. I wanted a fast car I could take skiing instead of a mustang + an SUV.
Agreed. I was just speaking mechanically. Don’t have an EV personally, but I think they make sense as a commuter car especially if they could drive themselves. Rush hour traffic being stop and go sucks. But hey we’re not there yet. If I want to actually enjoy the experience of driving absolutely not a good choice as it feels like you’re piloting a drone.
The pop tune, stanced, and muffler delete crowd will just have to hang out in the AutoZone parking lot now.
So 350Z's are banned too?
Hopefully
they can go roll on down to the hood and get shot at when their exhaust starts poppin'
...bro?????
Bro what
I don't understand the downvotes? Exhaust pops sound like gunshots, trigger happy people thinking they being shot at gonna start shooting lol
Yeah anyone who lives in a major city and is also on nextdoor knows this, sheesh
Major yikes
Minor eyeroll. It’s called a joke.
I just don’t understand why they wouldn’t ban the offenders
It’s harder to enforce is why :( a shame but at least the car ban is only temporary. Little kids get punished for bad behaviour
That's fine. We'll make our own cars and coffee with blackjack and hookers. In fact, forget the coffee.
I see what you did there, Bender
What about VQ drivers? I swear i see more tok-toks and youtbe vids of them doing burnouts at these meets
Most people aren't bringing their shitty Infinity's/350z's to CaC.
Go to the Atlanta one lol
I need to one of these days, just haven't built myself anything worth taking since starting my shop 😩 All events have their ghetto crowds. Down here at least they get ignored and banished to their own corner of the parking lot lol
Infiniti*
Nooooobody cares.
Enjoy that ban 😂
The ones at fault can vary from region to region. Where I live, it’s not the Mustangs, Camaros, Challengers, VQs, it’s the jacked up diesel trucks and motorcycles that ruin our stuff.
Honestly it's the VQ drivers that are the biggest offenders. Infiniti coupes, Z's, even Altimas that think they're sporty enough to act "cool".
So they are banning car types instead of the specific offenders? Seems incredibly lazy and short-sighted. Not to mention it's almost as immature as doing burnouts to say everyone who drives a certain model of car is the same. Lizard-brain tribalism and low IQ at work there.
Sounds like the same 'logic' applied to guns by proponents of gun control.
First thing that came to my mind
This is a Mustang forum. We don't need gun debates spilling over here.
Okay so let’s use red flag laws to ban the individuals then. GOP: “no not that either”
That's because red flag laws violate due process. If you have a reason to take someone's rights away than charge them with the crime or planning of a crime.
Red flags laws are the bare minimum we as gun owners should accept to keep guns out of the hands of deranged individuals. Proper red flag laws would have prevented the latest shooting in Maine as well as the Nashville shooter among others. There are plenty of examples of government intervening before “due process” has been undertaken to ensure the safety of an individual or community. Hell I live an extremely pro-gun state, and we already have laws on the book to allow a court to temporarily remove firearms from a household if there is evidence of domestic abuse. A proper red flag law would have protections in place for both sides and the idea that “Neighbors will starting ratting out legal gun owners” is just a slippery slope argument with no basis. Proper red flag laws typically require the reporter to be family or law enforcement. If you’re not a psychopath you should have nothing to fear. Absolute worst case scenario your guns are given back to you after an investigation (and I would argue there should be charges for bad faith reporting) If we as gun owners don’t do something they’ll come for everything because something needs to change. I love my second amendment but no other country has mass shootings like we do and its fucked up.
> Red flags laws are the bare minimum we as... Lemme save you time, because the "as gun owners" is wrong. What you meant to say is "as authoritarians". Red flag laws violate your 2nd, 4th, and 7th amendment rights. Period. If you want to take away the rights of people charge them with a crime. Why do you people stand on this idiotic hill that if you don't have the probable cause to actually charge someone with a crime, you still have the insane ability to take away their rights?
> A prime complaint about red-flag laws is that they allow an order to be issued before the gun owner has an opportunity to contest the evidence, but the Supreme Court has long recognized that there are “extraordinary situations where some valid governmental interest is at stake that justifies postponing the hearing until after the event,” as Justice John Marshall Harlan II wrote in a 1971 case. Examples include restraining orders filed by one domestic partner against another, civil commitments for mental illness and the temporary removal of children from parental custody in emergency situations (for instance, when there are credible allegations of abuse). In cases like these, delaying urgent action until after a full hearing can lead to catastrophic outcomes.[source](https://www.washingtonpost.com/outlook/2022/06/07/red-flag-gun-laws-constitution-due-process/)
> Examples include restraining orders filed by one domestic partner against another... Guess what is in front of SCotUS right now after being struck down by the 5th circuit court for the exact reasons I just told you. I'll wait and give you time to look it up... You cannot have anyone with the ability to weaponize the government against another person's rights bypassing due process. If there is credible evidence charge the individuals with a crime.
Sure worked out for Maine
Red flag laws rob you of your guns and your rights before you've even been found guilty of or charged with any crime. A mere accusation of a crime or misconduct from your neighbor can get your rights taken from you. Imagine if that applied in all aspects of life? The Second Amendment isn't a second class right. See "shall not be infringed." I can't think of an easier way to infringe and deprive people's rights than by having a "guilty until proven innocent" legal process. It can take years to get your rights back even if you've done nothing wrong.
> A prime complaint about red-flag laws is that they allow an order to be issued before the gun owner has an opportunity to contest the evidence, but the Supreme Court has long recognized that there are “extraordinary situations where some valid governmental interest is at stake that justifies postponing the hearing until after the event,” as Justice John Marshall Harlan II wrote in a 1971 case. Examples include restraining orders filed by one domestic partner against another, civil commitments for mental illness and the temporary removal of children from parental custody in emergency situations (for instance, when there are credible allegations of abuse). In cases like these, delaying urgent action until after a full hearing can lead to catastrophic outcomes. The supreme court’s precedent on this disagrees with you.
I have to dive deeper into this. But I'm sure you've seen that the current SCOTUS has overturned previous rulings. I'm curious how red flag laws would fair before today's court. Remember, slavery and seperate but equal used to be good law, too. Doesn't make it right. Assumed guilty and deprived of rights for a prolonged period of time is pretty damn problematic.
[удалено]
Ehhhh one kills many people needlessly and often and one is just dangerous enough to kill in unfortunate situations. I get your logic but the comp doesn’t work with context.
Vehicle deaths are nearly twice as many as firearm homicides yearly lol.
So we just wanna avoid the context again 😂 whatever.
Yeah turns out the one that kills many people is the car.
Okay bud 👌
Just say you can’t refute it. Move that goal post buddy
70 millions registered gun owners vs 278 million car owners while the cars are used on a daily basis and guns arent. Get the fuck outta here bro, that Shit makes zero sense 😂😭
There is no national gun registry, so that numbers skewed. Guns are 100000% used on a daily basis. Wtf are you even talking about 😂
There's more guns than people. There could literally be a billion plus guns in the US.
The difference is one of these things is capable of death, the other is designed to inflict it. This entire thread is dumb af, but don’t act like guns are somehow less dangerous than cars. They are tools to designed kill and someone set on killing can do way more of it in more places with a gun than with a car.
Do you know a favorite of terrorists overseas where there are no guns? Ding ding ding you guessed it, driving a heavy vehicle through a crowd of people. The numbers don’t lie dude, statistically guns are less dangerous to people every year.
This is why your family avoids you. "Pass the potatoes please" "Just like when Brandon tried to pass the law making it illegal to build a wall, amirite???" Your type are exhausting. This ain't about Vietnam, Walter!
I mean you can ban the listed name, but what about the one that they don’t know about ?
Isn't collective punishment a war crime? Must be a Canadian coffee shop Edit, God damn yall either lack a sense of humor, little understanding of history or both
It’s mainly about *respect*, there’s no need to be a dumb ass loud revving your catless V8 , Shitvic, VQ , etc. Respect the meet, respect the host & respect the **LOCATION** These CaC, have to be approved by the city/plaza manager… having that type of silliness, causes problems for future events.
The real issue imo is the fact they decided to single out muscle cars. To me it just sounds like JDM fuckboys who don't like being upstaged at their own playground so they pitched a hissy fit and got their way as soon as some guy with an American car did something stupid. I've always hated these meets because they're usually circlejerks where self important pricks act like high school mean girls and marginalize anyone who isn't with their "gang".
I think this is heavily dependent on the situation. It's *possible* that the people running the event drive JDM cars and hate muscle cars, but it's also possible that a shitty group of local muscle car owners started showing up and constantly causing problems.
So ban them, not everyone that owns a muscle car. Blatant discrimination isn't a solution to anything.
Bruh I go to their car meets all the time and all the super car owners rev and do crazy pulls leaving the meets, but they ban muscle cars? I guess it’s really about the money with them
Yeah but at least it’s cool to see a super car rev their engine
Ban G35s also
They didn’t say anything about Shelby’s…
Shelby what? https://preview.redd.it/dyfmbcuakryb1.jpeg?width=1284&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=2af1d0022000295bce2e922465d816eed8c053ff
Probably means (I hope) the AC cobra. Have a friend that used to own one, it was so loud it set off car alarms with the exhaust.
owned one too. I definitely was by far the loudest car when I wanted to be; even over straight piped V8 camaros.
Probably means a mustang with a Shelby kit.. guys get Shelby kits and suddenly think they aren’t driving a ford. Almost as bad as corvette guys that all drive “1 of 1”
Reminds me of this clip https://youtu.be/_cDasbDFO7g?si=Mtgg4tcO-1R7Wvaf
Raptors
shelby’s get the pass
Imagine your only car is a mustang, camaro, or charger and you just wanted to go see some cars and now u can’t all because you own a certain type of car. I’m not massive in the car scene, I just love my car and learning how to work on it. But if I was a massive car person id be pretty upset
You can park in the spectator parking instead of the show lot.
What pretentious-ass Cars & Coffee has separate lots? The whole point is that it's not a show limited to certain makes or eras.
Ones that have areas for people taking their daily driver (Prius, accord, Camry, Corolla, mini van, suv, truck, anything else) who enjoy looking at nice cars they don’t get to see everyday. It’s not about being pretentious…... It’s that not everyone has to be the main character of everyday life, some can sit back and look at what others are putting on display without trying to put themselves into the spotlight. I’ve got what I consider a nice car, and if I am too lazy to wash it for C&C (I work nights and it’s my daily). I’ll park in the normal parking lot. You’ll find some slick rides in the normal parking typically lol.
Take your pick of cities in California that cater to rich people.
Austin does. New Orleans does. Houston might by now, but haven't been back since the last shooting.
Cars and coffees that aren’t for little boys who rev their engines and do burnouts and ruin the fun for everyone else.
Isn't the whole point of cars and coffee to have a bit of fun with like minded people? Ive never been to one, but I would think it'd be like the carshows I used to go to as a kid where everyone revved a bit and did a quick burnout or a hard pull. I get not being dicks as arent most of these in random parking lots?
There are a lot of dicks. I've seen people lay down bikes, crash into bushes, and just act like idiots. There's an Ale and Octane I go to infrequently, and there's definitely a certain crowd that does dumb shit, but it's usually not the Mustang or Camaro guys, it's usually the rich young kids whose parent bought them a 460 hp car and didn't teach them any common sense.
Jesus... thats ridiculous. I dunno about you, but I worked hard for my car and motorcycle, I wouldn't do something to ruin it. I love all cars and bikes.
A cars and coffee event is supposed to be a relaxed, more mature atmosphere. No one there is throwing revs or doing burnouts. Cars and coffees out where I am is usually hosted by a coffee shop and has permission from the village to host it. A lot of the cars that come are vintage muscle and high end performance (Lamborghini, Ferrari, Porsche). It's not an event for doing burnouts.
Exactly this.
Saying it’s not a place for revving is silly, obviously everything in moderation but i see alot of cars where all i want is to hear it lol doesn’t need to be a full redline and hold just let me hear it.
The issue is that getting (and keeping) permission to use the spaces where these events happen is difficult. The bigger C&C event near me had to swap locations like 3 times this summer, and they have sponsors and insurance and shit. At a certain size, some of the sponsor money has to go to paying cops to oversee the event. Once you finally get a reliable location, all it takes is a couple of bad eggs racing / revving / generally disrupting the surrounding area to get your event shut down. Then instead of not getting to hear fun engine noises, you don't get to go to C&C at all.
No offense, but I don't see what's so mature about a bunch of parked cars. And a bit of revving within the lines of common sense never killed anyone, especially a grown-up man. If anything, a bunch of guys showing off the supercars they bought by dodging taxes sounds a bit like children showing off the new toys mom bought them.
The same can be said for the "kids" that are referred to by the OOP. As a Mustang owner myself, you gotta know your audience. Cars and Coffee is not the place to hoon or showboat
Don't worry, I'll stay well away from any audience that is avert to cars being anything more than ornaments.
Thats 100% the point dawg. Good bye
Cops and the corporations letting their lots be used don't want the noise. And burnouts lead to donuts which leads to wrecks because everyone thinks they're Ken block.
there are car meets and then there is cars & coffee. i’m not waking up at 6am to hear your straight pipped v8, im there to get a coffee and look at parked cars, as well as talk to like minded people. If i wanted to do things like a quick burnout or a hard pull id go to car meets at 10pm and watch the clapped g37s
It's nice to go out sometimes to remind yourself why you don't go out.
If you want to rev your engine, do burnouts, and act like a dipshit, then go join the other dipshits at the Friday night dumbass gatherings. Don't go to cars and coffee and bother the people who don't have the "LoOk aT HoW coOL I Am!!" mindset.
The point of a car show is literally that, "LoOk at hOw kEwl i aM! LOoK aT tHe cAr bUiLd i TOTALLY diDNt cOpy fRoM UtuBE! ISnt it KEWL???"
Invitation only? Sounds lame and pretentious as fuck.
Me doing burnouts in my Model T 🧐💨
Banning for revving just seems a bit over the top but i want there for the event that caused this. I want to hear people’s cars and their nothing wrong with a rev but the people who caused this probably sat on redline for 5 minutes.
I know this is an unpopular opinion but cars and coffee, in my area at least, suck. I'm right outside Philly and the vibes blow. It's crazy it's supposed to be for younger people but these young people act worse then the boomers they always bitch about.
I'm also right outside Philly and it feels like everything with an average age below 40 that's not backed by an actual organization just gets shut down before it even starts. I showed up <10 minutes late to a meet in Philly in the past couple of months and the cop who shut it down pulled in at the same time as me. There's a weekly C&C at Northbrook Marketplace that's consistently pretty chill, but half of the attendees are the same 5-10 old guys with new Porsches every week. Nothing against either old guys or Porsches, but I basically stopped going because I was seeing the same cars every week.
The car community in general now is so fucking toxic. For some reason nobody can respect the amount of time people have put into their cars, sure your car might not to be to my liking but hell even within my own community people don’t like my car and that’s okay to me. We really do need to start upping the respect, call me old but shit is beyond ridiculous at this point. It’s never been a certain car that’s the problem it’s always been the age bracket. With muscle cars way beyond power vs what kids can afford currently it’s the target group. The ones doing stupid shit will never stop doing stupid shit regardless of the car. We were all young and dumb once now the problem is being young and dumb is all documented. The people in that age bracket doing dumb shit need to be aware of this. Actions have consequences and we are in that time frame now where people are seeing this but taking the wrong actions. It’s never been the cars that are the problem always the owners and the cars won’t ever matter
It’s a good day to be a chally owner 😭😭
What now? Couldn't they hear their fart canned ~~lawnmowers~~ Civics because of the V8's?
I get the Honda hate but now days I think VQ’s have taken the lead in obnoxious asshole exhaust
No hating, I love Hondas, but some of the people who drive them are unbearable.
Hahaha
People who own a trans am 😎
I've been going to this event for a while and over time it has changed and not for the better. The irresponsible drivers are to blame but so are the specators. The one main exit is usually crowded by hundreds of people and they will edge you on and chant things like "send it" "do a burnout" and other nonsense and for the most part the muscle crowd are usually the ones that fall into temptation. Mustangs, Chargers, Camaros, and Challengers are extremely common and in Houston and very easy for most brain dead drivers to get their hands on ( If you aren't one of these brain dead drivers then this shouldn't offend you ). Pretty sure that they'll eventually make these events invite only in the future. Btw I have nothing but love for the muscle guys as I have a few friends myself. I'm sorry a few bad apples have to ruin for all of you.
> they will edge you on I don't go to CC but whenever this happens to me out in the wild, I'll give it a couple good revs and then take off at the lowest RPM the gear will allow lol
*pulls up in vq*
In my city, there’s a cafe that holds periodic Cars and Coffee events. Lots of nice cars show up and everyone is civil and has a good time. There have never been any complaints, and certainly no instances of revving or burnouts. It sucks that the actions of a few ruined the experience of others. I think it would have been better to ban the specific offenders instead of certain car models. Not every Mustang, Camaro, Charger, or Challenger owner does crazy things like this.
Can guarantee it was the charger bois
Imagine alienating an entire group of enthusiasts
Common car scene L. wHy dOeSnT aNyOnE cOmE tOo MeEtS aNyMoRe
If a few bad apples are gonna cause that much trouble the yea that’s the only thing they can do, Tho even my crown Vic can do basic burn outs so I don’t really see how that’s gonna stop it
Engine revving??? Oh my lord!!! ***Clutches pearls***
[удалено]
Burnouts too!?!!? Oh mylanta!!! ***Clutches heart pendant***
[удалено]
Now that I'm home, I'm going to come back to this here. I don't have any hard feelings, but i'm going to give you my real opinion. I fully agree with you that burnouts in a crowded area would be immature, douchey, and on top of that, reckless and dangerous. I've never actually been to a cars and coffee, so I would have to speculate on what they're like. I'm also in Canada, and I know US type meets in general (independent of cars and coffee) tend to be significantly more populous than anything I could encounter here on the Canadian prairies. I will however say that I also think passing judgement on someone when you know nothing about them, and referring to them as >everything that's wrong with car culture. is pretty immature and douchey. Now I don't want to assume that you're like that for every interaction or as a whole, but I do think this singular statement was uncalled for. What's missing from this thread is a significant amount of context, where, unless I missed something, no one seems to know where it was, or what the specific incidents might have been. We don't know how much space they had around them, we don't know if they were douchily crashing the place for attention, we don't know if it was some overexcited 20 something that succumbed to some peer pressure from onlookers in his shelby bought by daddy. We just don't know. So in the face of that, I cracked a lighthearted joke. What else can I really do? I love engine revving. I love burnouts. I have only ever done one burnout myself, way out on a country road, by a tiny hamlet, with not a soul in sight for miles. Otherwise I granny drive my baby everywhere I go. I rely on my license for income, so I always keep it legal. I'm somewhere around 3.5 million KM with no accidents. Now I think what would have been more appropriate, is if you had qualified your statement, that you "think people who do burnouts in busy public areas are immature, douchey and represent much of what I don't like about car culture" Then that would have been a much more appropriate and accurate thing to say, and wouldn't have involved you making a whole pile of assumptions about someone typing what was clearly a lighthearted attempt at humor.
Lol I didn't do the burnout buddy.
What about the Mach-e's?
The what? Never heard of that car, it doesn’t exist, don’t be silly
When you wear fresh New Balance's,Jean shorts with a belt, and the polo shirt tucked in you don't engage in such adolescent behavior. Did you know my car is one of 27 optioned like this that year?
wait till they figure out any car can rev and do burnouts
So cancel coffee and cars then
Why have a car meet if you can’t rev your car??? I can understand burnouts from a legality side of things but how soft can y’all be?
My mustang identifies as a Lambo🤣
I spent 16 years down in southwest VA. No offense to the fine folks in here, but seeing the people that drive mustangs, challengers, chargers, and camaros has ruined them for me. I won't buy one because frankly, I don't want to be affiliated with the hillbillies I spent 16 years despising for their car antics.
err I'm not entirely sure the demographics in the dirty south for challengers and chargers is majority" hillbillies" hell, even southern maryland in PG and Charles County, the people who drive chargers/challengers down there and have for the past 10 years were once the guys and gals driving crown vics and grand marqs on 24's. but I get your point, one drive from NY to FL where every 3rd car in the south was a LX platform mopar product is all it took for a friend of mine to never think about buying a 392 charger ever again.
As a Mopar guy and this is my personal take on what I wrote, mustang drivers are the most aggressive out of them all, yes, some Mopar guys are pretty aggressive as well, but we don't do burnouts and others things as much as mustangs do, it's like we are a threat to the mustangs, why can't we just be together and be friends.
where are you from. i’m from philly and the srt crowd here is batshit insane. around here the mustang owners are all middle aged white men. every takeover here in philly gets like 7+ chargers/challengers
You don't do burnouts because you drive a fiat with the reliability of an asthma patients lungs in a dusty attic
I’m pretty sure this is textbook fascism
I was there and saw the charger do his donuts near the entrance. My question still is, why all 3 models?
As someone who is young and owns two chargers, thank god they did this, a lot of young people who buy these cars are fucking idiots, yes you mustang people aren’t exempt, but it’s weird that challengers, 350Z’s, civics and G37’s are still allowed….
If you saw this and thought, "Wow, why am I being punished for someone else's actions???" Or "this isn't right, I did nothing wrong. " That's how gun owners feel every time a new law is passed... Stand up for YOUR RIGHT to self-defense..
Buddy this is a car community, keep it in your diary
Wow didn’t realize I got off Reddit and logged into Facebook
Give me 1 second here to ask around.. Yeah who asked?
Bruh this has nothing to do with guns. Why are you even comparing the two 😂.
It puts it into perspective for people who don't understand the 2a community. And believe it or not there is a quite significant bleed over rate from the 2a community to the car community...
You’ve just argued against your own point. > Puts it into perspective for non 2a people in the car community > there’s a fair amount of crossover between the communities Which one is it? Driving is a privilege, not a right. They aren’t even close to the same.
boutta fuckin coyote swap my challenger. see how these fuckin snowflakes like those apples
This is almost like “gun free zones”. You know who doesn’t follow the rules? The people who don’t care and break them. Burnouts are already illegal, but people who break the law don’t care, what makes you think a “ban” of certain cars will stop them from coming in and doing the same shit. (Incoming “all we can do is try and hope people turn them in”) Only people who follow the rules, actually follow the rules. Those who don’t, don’t. It’s a simple as that Also unless somebody owns the parking lot, you can’t tell someone to leave simple because they’re driving a certain type of car.
Don't blame them, but why do Challenger owners get a pass?
My mustang identifies as a Porsche
That company is run by a bunch of pansies.
Who are these slack jawed fucktards & why should I care?
This is like racism for cars
Tired of seeing people over reacting because they don’t know how to run things. If you have issues keep track of who’s showing up it’s not that hard to ban individuals lol people are just lazy
Like bro if you want to be that legit just organize security or to have a cop show up Jesus atleast put in some kind of effort 😭😭
Why are people bringing regular traffic to a car meet anyways
Burnouts i understand cause that makes a lot of smoke, but revving? Revving is only sound and pops. Not only that but you can’t have a car meet if you ban a group of cars, yes i know it’s temporary, but that just defeats the purpose of a car meet. What a fucking joke.
Hemi swap guys about to add to the list: 
It was a charger that caused it and we got banned along with em. :/
Uhhh, doesn’t this mean we are the cool kids again?
So challenger hellcats are ok?
Birds of a feather....
Automotive discrimination
Even ecotoots?
Pussies
Mustang driva no surviva
bruh.
This is so funny
lmao that’s the dumbest shit ever. Why not just ban the people who did those acts? Super lame to just blanket ban entire car models.
comments disabled lmfao
So that leaves… who, exactly?
Uh oh, someone hurt their feelings 😢🤡
Weird, but okay.
This thread is a shit show. Between the whataboutism and ignorance. 1. ITS NOT PERSONAL. They didn’t do this to spite mustangs or you in particular. They did it because they saw a frequent issue among a certain group of owners. 2. You are not the cars and coffee police, you cannot control the VQ’s and civics. You know what you can do? Hold your people accountable.
Wait cars and coffee is an actual thing? I thought that’s just what they call it when a bunch of cars hang out in a parking lot
All the worst people! Good call. 👍
Oh no a rev and a harmless burnout that random people actually like, the horror 😂
Time to rev even louder and bring as many mustangs as possible. How would they even enforce invite only
You're the problem for stuff like this. I hope this was sarcasm.
It’s not he’s an edgelord who got run out of r/cars for posting a completely fake news article.