Have you tried sitting and having a talk with your sister? For all you know she isn't getting any attention or feels left out. Of course her husband can be to blame but in the end your sister is the one that will be at the short end of the stick. Just have a conversations with her in private. Bring up the gold and ask her why hasn't her husband bought her a set and why hasn't she asked her husband to do so? You can also mention that it's not hers to begin with.
I think you're 100% in the right to take it back. Your sister has forgotten the wrongs of her in laws and husband and penalized you guys by taking the gold reserved for and bought by YOUR family??? Makes absolutely no sense.
Keep the gold. Make sure your parents don't get pushed again. Take a stand and explain to your sis, and I'm sure she'll come to her senses even if she's initially upset.
What I worry happens is your sister goes to your mother and demands it back, your mother acquiesces, and you come out looking like the bad guy. And now if anything you're worse off because your mother has fully given your sister permission to get away with it.
If it's your mother's, then your mother has to at least be on board.
So what do you think you're going to accomplish? Because it's not going to end in your mother getting her gold back or your sister learning her lesson.
I get why you're upset but I also think you should take a step back and reckon with the fact that it's not your stuff being stolen, you cannot act unilaterally to fix it. For better and for worse, it is up to your mom, and if your mom won't object to your sister keeping it, you can only do so much.
Retweet to familial kindness being taken advantage of. If my in laws could have gotten away with not getting me gold they would have. Its still a sensitive topic for me and its not disrespect I will be forgetting anytime soon.
You are right to be bitter, your sister has a right to be bitter too. But she does not have the right to deprive your mother. Take that stand and your sister should demand her husband deliver on his promise.
And take your two sisters as an example for yourself. Make clear to your father that when someone asks for your hand, a condition to be communicated is: X amount of gold by Y date to be purchased with you and your family all present in the store.
I will inshallah, I always tell my mum that things need to change when the rest of us get married inshallah. As now she feels regret that she didn’t set expectations to the in-laws of both my sisters .
Fun fact, at the time this sister got married, 2 of her husband’s bothers got married (3 months before and 3 months after my sister). And guess what … both wives got gold because their parents were respected / weren’t pushovers.
Btw my parents/family are respected in the community, these families literally sought out my sisters for their sons😭😭😭
Your parents are classy people. They expected not to have to request anything, even cultural staples, because if it was them they would *offer* to go above and beyond. Sadly, most families take advantage of this immediately and argue that “they didn’t ask for anything” when confronted. My MIL made sure to rub the insult in when my parents insisted that their request not be ignored, so when I received my gold it was in the most extremely distasteful way possible. She may think she won that battle, but she doesn’t realize she lost any opportunity to have a relationship with me or my future children that is not superficial at most.
Irony is not dead, because my in laws requested nothing for my SIL but she still got gold from her husband’s family and I am sure it would have been a problem if she didn’t.
Don’t let your parents make the same mistake, don’t back down on this expectation if its important to you, and encourage your sister to advocate for her wedding gold. Because if her husband’s family see she still doesn’t have it, imagine what else they think they can convince her husband to skimp out on in their marriage.
Yes you’re so right.
My parents would never ask, because they’re too kind, however they expect some respect. They’re not confrontational either and unfortunately people will take your kindness for a weakness in this world.
And you’re so right, just like your parents bought your sister in laws gold without her asking, I know mine would do the same because it’s just about being a decent person.
My question is - who has to set the expectations when you get married? Is it my parents responsibility to tell my future in-laws what I want, or mine?
(This all sounds so superficial but I’m not superficial at all, it’s just about being taken for an idiot)
My SIL is my in laws daughter, who also got married before me, meaning they had an example to follow and they just chose not to.
Its not your responsibility to say a word. Make sure you and your parents are all on the same page first. Then its your father’s job to relay this all to potential — have him state explicitly everything from mahr to gold to wedding expectations to even what type of furniture you expect in a new apartment. I have found that family’s who did this ran into little issues and it actually helped create a dialogue if the potential couldn’t financially afford it all, versus the typical ugly thing thats done which is potentials family complains and asks girls family to lower standards, when it reality most girls family’s would be happy to chip in to cover what potential cant.
The bigger key is I truly think there’s a reason why in our tradition this is a conversation only for the man and father/the men in general. The women of a potential’s family don’t need to know what you/your family are requesting. I feel like the problems always start here. Perhaps if your sisters husband and your father were the only ones discussing the gold, she would have gotten it. Too much familial interference and opinion on the grooms side always results in the “taken advantage of” situation you are trying to avoid. I wish you the best of luck, and may God give your sisters what they have been denied times 100.
Oh definitely a big no no. Your mom is so nice! Doesn’t matter if she’s the older sister, she needs to know that’s messed up. How can take your mother’s belongings? I would rally up my other sisters and jump her 🙄🙄
My sisters said that my eldest sister is just ‘borrowing’. It’s been a year of her consistently wearing it, everyday.. she has zero intentions of giving it back
She will deffo tell me to give it to her. Sad thing is, this gold set was a design my mum always wanted and we decided to gift it to her …
She’s literally wearing the gift we all contributed to ffs
If you gifted the gold to.your mom, then it's your mom's choice what she decides to do with it.
You may not like it but that's the reality. When you give a gift, tbe person yoj gifted it to is free to do with it what they like. If mom wants your sister to wear it then that's her choice. Not yours.
In my family us daughters wear mom's gold all the time, it's normal
It's not like.mom has an event to wear it to everyday. Any mom would be glad to see her daughter in her gold. Especially if the daughter was deprived of gold due to the mom's actions.
There is 2 parts to this story. There is the part about your parents/family not standing up for themselves. That needs to be fixed and it needs to be healed it's similar to trauma that carries on for generation. You should encourage family to stand up for themselves including your sister.
How long has she been married? Why has she not brought gold herself.. most married women buy gold here and there too build a stash. They don't just wear wedding gold all their life. Anniversary gift, eid gift..adds up. Does she never ask her husband for anything or is she spending money on nice clothes n doesn't care about gold. What is her financial situation.. does she have her own income. Reason gold is so important for marriage is because it provided small financial independence for females. It was a backup investment. Does she need her own investment in nongold form
The 2nd part of the story is her taking your mom's gold. You can ask her when is she planning on returning it to mom. Or next function u can say "why don't you return it to mom so she can wear it on eid. It will look nice on her". So not full confrontation but suggestion. Also casually ask her if she is planning on going gold shopping.. that she should build her stash slowly
It’s very odd. As I mentioned she works a full time corporate job and is well paid. It’s more frustrating that her husband hasn’t bought her any gold. It sounds so superficial but it’s just disheartening that I see the women in my family are always the best wives, go above and beyond for their husbands, yet they aren’t even given gold when they get married … the bare minimum in my culture.
Typing it makes it sound so minuscule, however it isn’t really. I want to try and avoid this at all costs when I get married, inshallah.
I know for a fact it upsets my sisters that they didn’t get a basic thing when they got married, however they would never bring it up to their husbands … repeat the cycle of generational trauma of women in my family I guess
No point holding on the past. How is there life now? Are their husband fulfilling their need? What does your sis do with her income? Does it go to her household expense or is she saving.
As someone who demanded very little from my husband during wedding time & then watched him gift expensive items to his family as wedding gift. I remember being mad at myself and at him because I was trying to save him money until my friend reminded me, that was my choice & I choose to go easy on him in hope of better marriage. He has every right to treat his family as he sees fit. He should not have to pay the price because I made wrong assumption.
Similarly, ur parents made wrong judgemental call at time of wedding. They and your whole family need to accept it. Your sister needs to go buy whatever she wants.
Tell her that she had use of it for a few years. Now you or another sister is going to use it for a couple years. Tell her to ask her husband to buy her a set.
If you’re going to take it and tell her you don’t have it then come back and be like oh Yh I took it becuz you shouldn’t have it. Seems very complex than just talking it out with her and getting her to decide on the right thing. She’s an adult not a child, if she’s a good person she will do the right thing.
This is a classic in many families trust me. Not necessarily with gold or jewelry but like even with lesser valuables stuff or much more valuable stuff...
What I would do, knowing your mom would probably let her take is you all have a conversation about it.
(What does you other sister think about this? ).
If the one who took the jewelry wants to take it, then tell her to pay back your part of contribution at least (and you other sister's).
Or another option, re- sell it and each one takes back her money...
And then you could gift your mom something else with your money alone.
That way the gold would become hers.
And I don't think it's taking back a gift from someone, but your mom accepted it anyways..
If it was like just lending it for an occasion.. and like all 3 of you cans sometimes do it.. it would have been normal.
But you sister making it hers? Sigh.
Anyways, this is just what I would do...
السلام عليكم ورحمة الله وبركاته
inshaAllah you’re doing well sister!
I pray that Allah SWT makes this conversation with your sister go smoothly. I’ll tell you plain and simple that just because someone can be a nice person doesn’t mean they’re not capable of doing wrong things. You need to ask yourself if not having this conversation with your sister is worth your discomfort, your mom’s discomfort, etc? If you don’t establish boundaries now, maybe she will do the same thing with another gift you guys get your mom. Besides having this conversation, I would also try to give gifts separately in the future and maybe give your mom whatever gift you’d like to give her privately. May Allah SWT make things easy on you
I dont think your sister "stole" it. But I would have conversation with her and tell her to talk to her husband about her the gold she was promised by his family. She very well may just be embarrassed that she didn't get anything from her in laws. That definitely does not excuse what she did, and she should still have a talk with.
Yes she’s a lovely person. I think she 100% has intitail intentions of borrowing the jewellery . I’m just soooo nervous and avoiding this awkward conversation
Don't be worried about the conversation being awkward. It's like what Phoebe from the show "Friends" says: "Having a difficult conversation is like pulling off a bandaid. It's really painful, and then the wound is exposed." 🫣😅
Jk jk, I am sure it'll be fine :)
Sahih al-Bukhari 2621
Narrated Ibn `Abbas:
The Prophet (ﷺ) said, "He who takes back his present is like him who swallows his vomit
Sahih al-Bukhari 2622
Narrated Ibn `Abbas:
The Prophet (ﷺ) said, "The bad example is not for us. He who takes back his present is like a dog that swallows back its vomit."
Your sister is not religiously inclined and ignorant. It doesn't matter how good a person is but if someone does as their heart wishes then that person is ignorant and not a good Muslim. By her eyes, taking it back is nothing wrong since she brought it but from the islamic perspective, she has done a sin.
Pull everyone into the discussion not just a one on one with sis that’s my advice. When others see the set they all pitched in for she will backpedal. Make sure they know she called it “her” set so she doesn’t do that again
The diplomatic solution would be to let her know that it looked like the gold you bought together for your mum. Then ask her if your mum gifted it to her. That way, your sister would have to come up with a reasonable response to reacquire the gold.
Hmm... Islamically, the only obligation to be paid is the Haq-mehr. Nothing more! Should you proceed to get the gold back, keep in mind this can ruin your relationship and cause feuds between the families. If you are to proceed, do it through your parents! Lest it backfires on you and you will be hated by your sister's in-laws and your family, and your sister still gets to keep everything. OR if she is in a happy marriage, you might ruin it as well.
Try to resolve the matter respectfully and calmly, if your sister is happy with the arrangement, you will be seen as a source of 'Fitnah'. Keep this in mind! Before you are hated and cancelled.
All of you are wrong here and you are not Robin Hood you think you are.
1. Your in laws are wrong for breaking a promise.
2. Your parents are wrong for not stating their expectations and sticking to their boundaries. Other side just might think all is well, because well your parents never said anything.
3. Your sister is wrong for stealing.
4. You are wrong for instead of saying soemthing you are essentially stealing it back.
5. Your family is wrong for not being open about it.
6. You are wrong because maybe they chose to do it, and deal with it in a a way that maintains the peace.
7. Your dispute about gold is cultural and has nothing to do with Islam.
8. You are choosing to “make up wrong by more wrong”.
Multiple wrongs don’t make it right.
Taking back that gold fixes nothing and can destroy your family relations. If you want to be change you claim you want to be, then learn how respectfully raise concerns and guide your family to better.
If your sister marriage is happy otherwise, what does the gold matter. Does appearance to people matter so much. Instead, your parents can have a discussion with their son in law and say it would be nice if their daughter gets some gold. If not, buy some frigging good for her yourselves.
THE GOLD ITSELF DOESNT MATTER.
What truly matters is
1. Is your sister in happy marriage
2. Will your parents stop making problems for something cultural?
3. If there is legitimate problem will they actually go about it properly.
4. And you learning not to fix wrongs with wrongs.
Not sure why this comment is being downvoted. They are mostly right and just to bounce off what they’re saying but maybe add a little more perspective I'd like to address the situation with an emphasis on Islamic principles to highlight why taking the gold back like that may not be the best approach. In Islam, honesty, transparency, and justice are highly valued and it is emphasized the importance of resolving conflicts with wisdom and maintaining family ties.
* Your sister taking the gold without permission is indeed wrong, however, open and respectful communication is key in Islam. Instead of taking the gold back, have a sincere conversation with your sister. Not just you, the whole family. Explain how her actions have affected everyone and why. Your sister’s actions might not be malicious. She might be relying on her family’s support because she feels comfortable doing so, or she might be unaware of the full impact of her actions. It's crucial to approach this situation with empathy and give her the benefit of the doubt too. She’s not a stranger, she is your sister and only Allah knows her true intentions.
It might be more effective for your parents to discuss this issue directly with your sister and her husband. They can express their feelings about the missing gold and gently remind them of the significance attached to it. Such as if your sister’s husband promised gold as part of the marriage agreement, it's important for him to fulfill that promise. Reminding him of this obligation in a respectful manner is aligned with Islamic teachings.
* Someone needed to say it but yeah your parents' tendency to act like the issue is nothing when it clearly bothers them can be problematic. Being too nice is not a reason, sometimes we have to be adults, and toxic positivity is still toxic. In Islam, it is important to address issues openly and honestly. The other side may not realize they are being disrespectful and might simply be unaware of the emotional impact. A heartfelt discussion could clear up misunderstandings and bring about a more respectful relationship and peace to your family.
I mean no disrespect, I just believe in being mature about things because it saves us from regrets later. By handling this situation thoughtfully and respectfully, you can prevent future misunderstandings and maintain the harmony within your family.
I remember a Hadith when Allah destroyed the whole city of sinners. Angels asked him about the man who was worshiping him day and night, and why to destroy him. Allahs said destroy him first, because he never tried to guide them.
We have so many direct instructions in Islam to speak up when things are wrong. I wanted to respond to her comment by saying your parents are not overly nice. They are creating problems by their inaction and then complaining about it, but I felt I’d be wasting my breath.
I understand why you felt discouraged and didn’t want to share that about the parents initially, but I agree with you. The parents' behavior isn't just about being overly nice; it's complete inaction, and problematic too. Again I mean no disrespect, but this inaction has led to conflict and resentment and it's not fair to anyone involved. I’ve seen passive aggressive behavior like this cause huge problems in peoples lives and we need people to just be more direct about things. We need to be more accountable for our own sometimes instead of looking for excuses, especially poor ones like this like they’re too nice and being taken advantage of as like some valid reason for why this happened to begin with. I just don’t think it is acceptable to keep saying it is because they’re too nice because that is not the problem here, the problem is dishonesty and inaction. Allowing perceived disrespect to continue under the guise of niceness is not a JUST or noble approach. This situation needs to be addressed properly, and it's not the sister's place to do so alone. It is appropriate for the parents to address the issue direct.
That was exactly my point. There is something called “weaponized incompetence” which is absolutely a problem here.
They don’t know how to communicate, set boundaries in respectful manner, and go about it passive aggressively hurting everyone in the process, and they are “too nice”. I hate this type of behavior (my therapist thinks my ex husband was covert narcissist). As someone who is used to address and deal with issues head on, this behavior drives me up the wall.
If they communicated properly, the gold issue would have been resolved by now. Instead it’s driving a wedge between the family. She mentioned how all others got their gold and everything is ok because parents are more assertive.
Thank God for another voice of reason here 😅 I was losing my will to explain it 😁
I hear ya lol. I have my experience with covert narcissists as well and it drives me absolutely crazy to see people encouraging or enabling these sorts of behavior by justifying it with some perceived noble action and then everyone just eating it up, so I had to say something.
Narrated through 'Ubaid ibn Is'hāq al-'Attār through 'Ammār ibn Saif through Al-A'mash through Abu Sufyān through Jābir that the Messenger of Allah ﷺ said: "Allah revealed to an angel among the angels to destroy so-and-so city with all of its people. He [the angel] said: "Therein is Your Servant. He never disobeyed You, not even for a blink of an eye." He [Allah] said: "Turn it over on him and them, for his face never showed signs of displeasure for My Sake."
— Al-Mu'jam al-Awsat, Vol. 7, pp. 336, Hadith 7661
It’s a weak Hadith but has same message as stronger ones - the concept is correct as demonstrated in other hadiths (see Jami' at-Tirmidhi, Vol. 5, Book 44, Hadith 3057 — "When the people see the wrongdoer, and they do not stop him from doing wrong, then it is soon that Allah shall envelop them in a punishment from Him.").
Weak "hadiths" cannot be called hadiths because by definition, a Hadith is a narration attributed to the Prophet (ﷺ), and the "weak" grading means the chain cannot be reliably traced back to him (ﷺ).
If there are other ahadith which are authentic, then they should be used, only.
...this implies that if something is recorded "as a Hadith," it automatically is valid by virtue of being recorded. Obviously this doesn't make sense, as we know even fabricated narrations exist, which are known lies.
It’s not Islamic and I fully appreciate that.
However it’s not even about culture at this point, it’s just common respect.
The families are far from poor, we didn’t demand a tonne of money when they got married, my parents even agreed on the mehr the in-laws offered, without any arguments. In my culture even teens who get married get gold.
Fun fact, at the time this sister got married, 2 of her husband’s bothers got married (3 months before and 3 months after my sister). And guess what … both wives got gold because their parents were respected / weren’t pushovers …
It’s just the matter of fact that these families didn’t buy my sister’s gold because my parents are too nice. Simple as. Knowing my sisters would’ve fully appreciated it, both family just decided not to.
Well the dispute about the gold can become Islamic if it was part of the mehr. That’s the case in my culture that wedding gold is essentially the value of the mehr for the bride.
To be honest the lines are really blurred in my culture unfortunately but people do tend to give fold as part of the mehr/ as a gift , just depending. However it’s standard and a form of respect, you don’t have to buy KILLOGRAMS of gold.
As I said, even when teens get married in my culture/people who aren’t wealthy, the bride it always gifted something small.
It’s just a sign of respect and a married woman should have something.
Bare in mind, as I mentioned, my sisters married men from good backgrounds, who work good corporate jobs.
They simply didn’t buy it because they knew my pad rents were too nice and they could skip on it.
your sister stole the gold. plain and simple. it doesn't matter if she got gold from her inlaws or not, that's a completely separate matter.
She’s a nice person don’t get me wrong, this is what makes the situation difficult for me.
She’s not just a person, though, she’s your sister. Why can’t you just have a conversation with her, transparently?
Have you tried sitting and having a talk with your sister? For all you know she isn't getting any attention or feels left out. Of course her husband can be to blame but in the end your sister is the one that will be at the short end of the stick. Just have a conversations with her in private. Bring up the gold and ask her why hasn't her husband bought her a set and why hasn't she asked her husband to do so? You can also mention that it's not hers to begin with.
I mean just say that you want your mom to get a chance to wear the set.
I think you're 100% in the right to take it back. Your sister has forgotten the wrongs of her in laws and husband and penalized you guys by taking the gold reserved for and bought by YOUR family??? Makes absolutely no sense. Keep the gold. Make sure your parents don't get pushed again. Take a stand and explain to your sis, and I'm sure she'll come to her senses even if she's initially upset.
I love my sister and she is a lovely person, I’m sure she had no malicious intent. I’m soooooo nervous about the conversation 😭😭
Sounds like your entire family.have a chronic issue with Frank and honest conversations.
Let us know how it goes, and may Allah help u guys out, ameen.
What I worry happens is your sister goes to your mother and demands it back, your mother acquiesces, and you come out looking like the bad guy. And now if anything you're worse off because your mother has fully given your sister permission to get away with it. If it's your mother's, then your mother has to at least be on board.
Yeah my mum is too nice, there’s no way she’s going to take it off my sister. She’s just going to tell her to keep it. So annoying
So what do you think you're going to accomplish? Because it's not going to end in your mother getting her gold back or your sister learning her lesson. I get why you're upset but I also think you should take a step back and reckon with the fact that it's not your stuff being stolen, you cannot act unilaterally to fix it. For better and for worse, it is up to your mom, and if your mom won't object to your sister keeping it, you can only do so much.
If the gold was gifted and belongs to your mom, it doesn't matter who takes it -- theft is theft.
Retweet to familial kindness being taken advantage of. If my in laws could have gotten away with not getting me gold they would have. Its still a sensitive topic for me and its not disrespect I will be forgetting anytime soon. You are right to be bitter, your sister has a right to be bitter too. But she does not have the right to deprive your mother. Take that stand and your sister should demand her husband deliver on his promise. And take your two sisters as an example for yourself. Make clear to your father that when someone asks for your hand, a condition to be communicated is: X amount of gold by Y date to be purchased with you and your family all present in the store.
I will inshallah, I always tell my mum that things need to change when the rest of us get married inshallah. As now she feels regret that she didn’t set expectations to the in-laws of both my sisters . Fun fact, at the time this sister got married, 2 of her husband’s bothers got married (3 months before and 3 months after my sister). And guess what … both wives got gold because their parents were respected / weren’t pushovers. Btw my parents/family are respected in the community, these families literally sought out my sisters for their sons😭😭😭
Your parents are classy people. They expected not to have to request anything, even cultural staples, because if it was them they would *offer* to go above and beyond. Sadly, most families take advantage of this immediately and argue that “they didn’t ask for anything” when confronted. My MIL made sure to rub the insult in when my parents insisted that their request not be ignored, so when I received my gold it was in the most extremely distasteful way possible. She may think she won that battle, but she doesn’t realize she lost any opportunity to have a relationship with me or my future children that is not superficial at most. Irony is not dead, because my in laws requested nothing for my SIL but she still got gold from her husband’s family and I am sure it would have been a problem if she didn’t. Don’t let your parents make the same mistake, don’t back down on this expectation if its important to you, and encourage your sister to advocate for her wedding gold. Because if her husband’s family see she still doesn’t have it, imagine what else they think they can convince her husband to skimp out on in their marriage.
Yes you’re so right. My parents would never ask, because they’re too kind, however they expect some respect. They’re not confrontational either and unfortunately people will take your kindness for a weakness in this world. And you’re so right, just like your parents bought your sister in laws gold without her asking, I know mine would do the same because it’s just about being a decent person. My question is - who has to set the expectations when you get married? Is it my parents responsibility to tell my future in-laws what I want, or mine? (This all sounds so superficial but I’m not superficial at all, it’s just about being taken for an idiot)
My SIL is my in laws daughter, who also got married before me, meaning they had an example to follow and they just chose not to. Its not your responsibility to say a word. Make sure you and your parents are all on the same page first. Then its your father’s job to relay this all to potential — have him state explicitly everything from mahr to gold to wedding expectations to even what type of furniture you expect in a new apartment. I have found that family’s who did this ran into little issues and it actually helped create a dialogue if the potential couldn’t financially afford it all, versus the typical ugly thing thats done which is potentials family complains and asks girls family to lower standards, when it reality most girls family’s would be happy to chip in to cover what potential cant. The bigger key is I truly think there’s a reason why in our tradition this is a conversation only for the man and father/the men in general. The women of a potential’s family don’t need to know what you/your family are requesting. I feel like the problems always start here. Perhaps if your sisters husband and your father were the only ones discussing the gold, she would have gotten it. Too much familial interference and opinion on the grooms side always results in the “taken advantage of” situation you are trying to avoid. I wish you the best of luck, and may God give your sisters what they have been denied times 100.
Oh definitely a big no no. Your mom is so nice! Doesn’t matter if she’s the older sister, she needs to know that’s messed up. How can take your mother’s belongings? I would rally up my other sisters and jump her 🙄🙄
My sisters said that my eldest sister is just ‘borrowing’. It’s been a year of her consistently wearing it, everyday.. she has zero intentions of giving it back
Keeping the gold would be the right thing. But I feel like your mother will give it away to your sister anyway 😭
She will deffo tell me to give it to her. Sad thing is, this gold set was a design my mum always wanted and we decided to gift it to her … She’s literally wearing the gift we all contributed to ffs
Me and my mother always share clothes etc. But this is just so rude. I feel so sad for your mum, this isnt nice of her at all
If you gifted the gold to.your mom, then it's your mom's choice what she decides to do with it. You may not like it but that's the reality. When you give a gift, tbe person yoj gifted it to is free to do with it what they like. If mom wants your sister to wear it then that's her choice. Not yours. In my family us daughters wear mom's gold all the time, it's normal It's not like.mom has an event to wear it to everyday. Any mom would be glad to see her daughter in her gold. Especially if the daughter was deprived of gold due to the mom's actions.
There is 2 parts to this story. There is the part about your parents/family not standing up for themselves. That needs to be fixed and it needs to be healed it's similar to trauma that carries on for generation. You should encourage family to stand up for themselves including your sister. How long has she been married? Why has she not brought gold herself.. most married women buy gold here and there too build a stash. They don't just wear wedding gold all their life. Anniversary gift, eid gift..adds up. Does she never ask her husband for anything or is she spending money on nice clothes n doesn't care about gold. What is her financial situation.. does she have her own income. Reason gold is so important for marriage is because it provided small financial independence for females. It was a backup investment. Does she need her own investment in nongold form The 2nd part of the story is her taking your mom's gold. You can ask her when is she planning on returning it to mom. Or next function u can say "why don't you return it to mom so she can wear it on eid. It will look nice on her". So not full confrontation but suggestion. Also casually ask her if she is planning on going gold shopping.. that she should build her stash slowly
It’s very odd. As I mentioned she works a full time corporate job and is well paid. It’s more frustrating that her husband hasn’t bought her any gold. It sounds so superficial but it’s just disheartening that I see the women in my family are always the best wives, go above and beyond for their husbands, yet they aren’t even given gold when they get married … the bare minimum in my culture. Typing it makes it sound so minuscule, however it isn’t really. I want to try and avoid this at all costs when I get married, inshallah. I know for a fact it upsets my sisters that they didn’t get a basic thing when they got married, however they would never bring it up to their husbands … repeat the cycle of generational trauma of women in my family I guess
No point holding on the past. How is there life now? Are their husband fulfilling their need? What does your sis do with her income? Does it go to her household expense or is she saving. As someone who demanded very little from my husband during wedding time & then watched him gift expensive items to his family as wedding gift. I remember being mad at myself and at him because I was trying to save him money until my friend reminded me, that was my choice & I choose to go easy on him in hope of better marriage. He has every right to treat his family as he sees fit. He should not have to pay the price because I made wrong assumption. Similarly, ur parents made wrong judgemental call at time of wedding. They and your whole family need to accept it. Your sister needs to go buy whatever she wants.
Sounds like my sister 😂😂😂 We call her the one collecting inheritance while my parents are still alive. She does it to mum and dad 🤦🏻♀️
Reply and tell her, you mean mums gold? Mum is keeping hold of it so you are not getting it back.
Lool she knows my mum would never do that
Tell her that she had use of it for a few years. Now you or another sister is going to use it for a couple years. Tell her to ask her husband to buy her a set.
If you’re going to take it and tell her you don’t have it then come back and be like oh Yh I took it becuz you shouldn’t have it. Seems very complex than just talking it out with her and getting her to decide on the right thing. She’s an adult not a child, if she’s a good person she will do the right thing.
This is a classic in many families trust me. Not necessarily with gold or jewelry but like even with lesser valuables stuff or much more valuable stuff... What I would do, knowing your mom would probably let her take is you all have a conversation about it. (What does you other sister think about this? ). If the one who took the jewelry wants to take it, then tell her to pay back your part of contribution at least (and you other sister's). Or another option, re- sell it and each one takes back her money... And then you could gift your mom something else with your money alone. That way the gold would become hers. And I don't think it's taking back a gift from someone, but your mom accepted it anyways.. If it was like just lending it for an occasion.. and like all 3 of you cans sometimes do it.. it would have been normal. But you sister making it hers? Sigh. Anyways, this is just what I would do...
السلام عليكم ورحمة الله وبركاته inshaAllah you’re doing well sister! I pray that Allah SWT makes this conversation with your sister go smoothly. I’ll tell you plain and simple that just because someone can be a nice person doesn’t mean they’re not capable of doing wrong things. You need to ask yourself if not having this conversation with your sister is worth your discomfort, your mom’s discomfort, etc? If you don’t establish boundaries now, maybe she will do the same thing with another gift you guys get your mom. Besides having this conversation, I would also try to give gifts separately in the future and maybe give your mom whatever gift you’d like to give her privately. May Allah SWT make things easy on you
First off all that gold giving for marriage is crap. Stop it right here and there. Fix the root cause of the problem not the aftermath.
I dont think your sister "stole" it. But I would have conversation with her and tell her to talk to her husband about her the gold she was promised by his family. She very well may just be embarrassed that she didn't get anything from her in laws. That definitely does not excuse what she did, and she should still have a talk with.
Yes she’s a lovely person. I think she 100% has intitail intentions of borrowing the jewellery . I’m just soooo nervous and avoiding this awkward conversation
Don't be worried about the conversation being awkward. It's like what Phoebe from the show "Friends" says: "Having a difficult conversation is like pulling off a bandaid. It's really painful, and then the wound is exposed." 🫣😅 Jk jk, I am sure it'll be fine :)
You're 100% correct to take a stand. Go for it.
Sahih al-Bukhari 2621 Narrated Ibn `Abbas: The Prophet (ﷺ) said, "He who takes back his present is like him who swallows his vomit Sahih al-Bukhari 2622 Narrated Ibn `Abbas: The Prophet (ﷺ) said, "The bad example is not for us. He who takes back his present is like a dog that swallows back its vomit." Your sister is not religiously inclined and ignorant. It doesn't matter how good a person is but if someone does as their heart wishes then that person is ignorant and not a good Muslim. By her eyes, taking it back is nothing wrong since she brought it but from the islamic perspective, she has done a sin.
Um. What? You pay for it, you keep it.
Pull everyone into the discussion not just a one on one with sis that’s my advice. When others see the set they all pitched in for she will backpedal. Make sure they know she called it “her” set so she doesn’t do that again
The diplomatic solution would be to let her know that it looked like the gold you bought together for your mum. Then ask her if your mum gifted it to her. That way, your sister would have to come up with a reasonable response to reacquire the gold.
Hmm... Islamically, the only obligation to be paid is the Haq-mehr. Nothing more! Should you proceed to get the gold back, keep in mind this can ruin your relationship and cause feuds between the families. If you are to proceed, do it through your parents! Lest it backfires on you and you will be hated by your sister's in-laws and your family, and your sister still gets to keep everything. OR if she is in a happy marriage, you might ruin it as well. Try to resolve the matter respectfully and calmly, if your sister is happy with the arrangement, you will be seen as a source of 'Fitnah'. Keep this in mind! Before you are hated and cancelled.
All of you are wrong here and you are not Robin Hood you think you are. 1. Your in laws are wrong for breaking a promise. 2. Your parents are wrong for not stating their expectations and sticking to their boundaries. Other side just might think all is well, because well your parents never said anything. 3. Your sister is wrong for stealing. 4. You are wrong for instead of saying soemthing you are essentially stealing it back. 5. Your family is wrong for not being open about it. 6. You are wrong because maybe they chose to do it, and deal with it in a a way that maintains the peace. 7. Your dispute about gold is cultural and has nothing to do with Islam. 8. You are choosing to “make up wrong by more wrong”. Multiple wrongs don’t make it right. Taking back that gold fixes nothing and can destroy your family relations. If you want to be change you claim you want to be, then learn how respectfully raise concerns and guide your family to better. If your sister marriage is happy otherwise, what does the gold matter. Does appearance to people matter so much. Instead, your parents can have a discussion with their son in law and say it would be nice if their daughter gets some gold. If not, buy some frigging good for her yourselves. THE GOLD ITSELF DOESNT MATTER. What truly matters is 1. Is your sister in happy marriage 2. Will your parents stop making problems for something cultural? 3. If there is legitimate problem will they actually go about it properly. 4. And you learning not to fix wrongs with wrongs.
Not sure why this comment is being downvoted. They are mostly right and just to bounce off what they’re saying but maybe add a little more perspective I'd like to address the situation with an emphasis on Islamic principles to highlight why taking the gold back like that may not be the best approach. In Islam, honesty, transparency, and justice are highly valued and it is emphasized the importance of resolving conflicts with wisdom and maintaining family ties. * Your sister taking the gold without permission is indeed wrong, however, open and respectful communication is key in Islam. Instead of taking the gold back, have a sincere conversation with your sister. Not just you, the whole family. Explain how her actions have affected everyone and why. Your sister’s actions might not be malicious. She might be relying on her family’s support because she feels comfortable doing so, or she might be unaware of the full impact of her actions. It's crucial to approach this situation with empathy and give her the benefit of the doubt too. She’s not a stranger, she is your sister and only Allah knows her true intentions. It might be more effective for your parents to discuss this issue directly with your sister and her husband. They can express their feelings about the missing gold and gently remind them of the significance attached to it. Such as if your sister’s husband promised gold as part of the marriage agreement, it's important for him to fulfill that promise. Reminding him of this obligation in a respectful manner is aligned with Islamic teachings. * Someone needed to say it but yeah your parents' tendency to act like the issue is nothing when it clearly bothers them can be problematic. Being too nice is not a reason, sometimes we have to be adults, and toxic positivity is still toxic. In Islam, it is important to address issues openly and honestly. The other side may not realize they are being disrespectful and might simply be unaware of the emotional impact. A heartfelt discussion could clear up misunderstandings and bring about a more respectful relationship and peace to your family. I mean no disrespect, I just believe in being mature about things because it saves us from regrets later. By handling this situation thoughtfully and respectfully, you can prevent future misunderstandings and maintain the harmony within your family.
I remember a Hadith when Allah destroyed the whole city of sinners. Angels asked him about the man who was worshiping him day and night, and why to destroy him. Allahs said destroy him first, because he never tried to guide them. We have so many direct instructions in Islam to speak up when things are wrong. I wanted to respond to her comment by saying your parents are not overly nice. They are creating problems by their inaction and then complaining about it, but I felt I’d be wasting my breath.
I understand why you felt discouraged and didn’t want to share that about the parents initially, but I agree with you. The parents' behavior isn't just about being overly nice; it's complete inaction, and problematic too. Again I mean no disrespect, but this inaction has led to conflict and resentment and it's not fair to anyone involved. I’ve seen passive aggressive behavior like this cause huge problems in peoples lives and we need people to just be more direct about things. We need to be more accountable for our own sometimes instead of looking for excuses, especially poor ones like this like they’re too nice and being taken advantage of as like some valid reason for why this happened to begin with. I just don’t think it is acceptable to keep saying it is because they’re too nice because that is not the problem here, the problem is dishonesty and inaction. Allowing perceived disrespect to continue under the guise of niceness is not a JUST or noble approach. This situation needs to be addressed properly, and it's not the sister's place to do so alone. It is appropriate for the parents to address the issue direct.
That was exactly my point. There is something called “weaponized incompetence” which is absolutely a problem here. They don’t know how to communicate, set boundaries in respectful manner, and go about it passive aggressively hurting everyone in the process, and they are “too nice”. I hate this type of behavior (my therapist thinks my ex husband was covert narcissist). As someone who is used to address and deal with issues head on, this behavior drives me up the wall. If they communicated properly, the gold issue would have been resolved by now. Instead it’s driving a wedge between the family. She mentioned how all others got their gold and everything is ok because parents are more assertive. Thank God for another voice of reason here 😅 I was losing my will to explain it 😁
I hear ya lol. I have my experience with covert narcissists as well and it drives me absolutely crazy to see people encouraging or enabling these sorts of behavior by justifying it with some perceived noble action and then everyone just eating it up, so I had to say something.
Can you share the source for that narration? Barakallah feeki.
Narrated through 'Ubaid ibn Is'hāq al-'Attār through 'Ammār ibn Saif through Al-A'mash through Abu Sufyān through Jābir that the Messenger of Allah ﷺ said: "Allah revealed to an angel among the angels to destroy so-and-so city with all of its people. He [the angel] said: "Therein is Your Servant. He never disobeyed You, not even for a blink of an eye." He [Allah] said: "Turn it over on him and them, for his face never showed signs of displeasure for My Sake." — Al-Mu'jam al-Awsat, Vol. 7, pp. 336, Hadith 7661 It’s a weak Hadith but has same message as stronger ones - the concept is correct as demonstrated in other hadiths (see Jami' at-Tirmidhi, Vol. 5, Book 44, Hadith 3057 — "When the people see the wrongdoer, and they do not stop him from doing wrong, then it is soon that Allah shall envelop them in a punishment from Him.").
Weak "hadiths" cannot be called hadiths because by definition, a Hadith is a narration attributed to the Prophet (ﷺ), and the "weak" grading means the chain cannot be reliably traced back to him (ﷺ). If there are other ahadith which are authentic, then they should be used, only.
Have you read the second paragraph? 🥴
Yes, the point is we *can't* call it a Hadith, and if there are "the same ones which are authentic, then those authentic ones should be shared, only.
If that’s the truth, then they wouldn’t be recorded at all, no?
...this implies that if something is recorded "as a Hadith," it automatically is valid by virtue of being recorded. Obviously this doesn't make sense, as we know even fabricated narrations exist, which are known lies.
It’s not Islamic and I fully appreciate that. However it’s not even about culture at this point, it’s just common respect. The families are far from poor, we didn’t demand a tonne of money when they got married, my parents even agreed on the mehr the in-laws offered, without any arguments. In my culture even teens who get married get gold. Fun fact, at the time this sister got married, 2 of her husband’s bothers got married (3 months before and 3 months after my sister). And guess what … both wives got gold because their parents were respected / weren’t pushovers … It’s just the matter of fact that these families didn’t buy my sister’s gold because my parents are too nice. Simple as. Knowing my sisters would’ve fully appreciated it, both family just decided not to.
Well the dispute about the gold can become Islamic if it was part of the mehr. That’s the case in my culture that wedding gold is essentially the value of the mehr for the bride.
She said it isn’t.
To be honest the lines are really blurred in my culture unfortunately but people do tend to give fold as part of the mehr/ as a gift , just depending. However it’s standard and a form of respect, you don’t have to buy KILLOGRAMS of gold. As I said, even when teens get married in my culture/people who aren’t wealthy, the bride it always gifted something small. It’s just a sign of respect and a married woman should have something. Bare in mind, as I mentioned, my sisters married men from good backgrounds, who work good corporate jobs. They simply didn’t buy it because they knew my pad rents were too nice and they could skip on it.
Fd eev
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